Are we headed for Civil War II?

Others like Rush Limbaugh, Newsbusters, and Fox have picked up on a prime example of the biased MSM and Democrat coverage of violence over the healthcare battle: Bart Stupak.

stupak threats yes vote abortion.pngStupak may have complained of threats by pro-aborts before he turned coat, but he only publicized the threats received by portended pro-lifers after. And this is only when MSM and libs picked up on them.

I like how Bernie Goldberg framed what's going on: Portraying pro-lifers and conservatives as violent and racist fits the other side's narrative.

That said, there is something more afoot.

Erick Erickson at wrote yesterday...

First of all, I would point out that it was the Democrats who just took over 1/6th of the American economy despite upwards of 56% of the American public being opposed. And they expect people to... what... clap?

violent war protest.jpg

As I said earlier today, violence is unacceptable, but none of us should be surprised - especially the left, which feeds off riots, protest, and molotov cocktail parties every time they strongly oppose something. The Weather Underground was not a Republican insurgency at the Weather Channel....

To quote Billy Joel, "We didn't start the fire." The Democrats are crying foul now trying to change the subject away from what they just did. And to do it, they are falling back on old Democrat standby narratives the media readily consumes - racists and angry white men.

fire pelosi.png

I can't say enough - we should beat them at the ballot box. Violence is inexcusable. But did they really think the public would just roll over when they willfully imposed the largest tax increase in America history, betrayed major Obama campaign promises, and mocked, taunted, and ridiculed the people who believe the Constitution actually has meaning and value?

The Democrats need to get independent voters back on their side to avoid decimation at the ballot box in November. By playing up these stories, many of which are pretty lame... they hope to spook independents into jumping back to their side. That's what this is all about. I've got news for them: it isn't going to work because the independents are clearly spooked by what happened Sunday.

Sucks for the Dems.

Erickson wrote in another piece:

I've said for weeks I was a bit fearful of what would happen as a result. I sincerely pray we are not on the cusp of some group of angry and now unhinged mob lashing out at congressmen for a vote in the Congress.

no to healthcare 2.jpg

But something seems to be brewing and I frankly don't think the Democrats should at all be surprised. They were and they knew they were playing with fire to advance legislation many Americans see as the undoing of the American Experiment. Some of those Americans will now conclude that, like with the founders, if King George will not listen, King George must be fought.

Acts of violence against congressmen for behaving as congressmen are wholly inexcusable. We should be vigilant to police our own side because as we're already seeing through a series of breathless and inaccurate reports, the press and Democrats are going to be quick to run most any story and the retraction will never be as significant as the initial report.

But let's not act surprised. The only people surprised by the rage are the ones who refused to venture outside Washington to understand first hand what the voters were actually thinking before congressmen voted.

preacher big chill.pngThis entire situation reminds me of a line from one of my favorite movies, The Big Chill, the funeral scene, when the preacher says about Alex's suicide, "It makes me angry. And I don't know what to do with my anger" (at 9:27 on video).

Pro-lifers have been amazingly proficient for decades at channeling their anger and protest against the legalized slaughter of preborn children into productively trying to stop it.

But generally speaking, there is going to come a point when either 1) the politicians start listening to the American people; 2) the American people give up; or 3) we have another civil war.

And as far as pro-lifers are concerned, the forced abortion tax in the healthcare plan and coming denial by the Obama administration of conscience protections for healthcare entities will be impossible to tolerate.

As we all know, of all issues in the healthcare plan, abortion was the most critical.Washington Times columnist Tony Blankley described where we are at on March 24, in a column pro-lifers will identify very, very closely with:

We are beginning to enter the Kansas-Nebraska Act stage of the socialist crisis of the republic. At our constitutional founding, the evil of slavery had been crudely evaded. In 1820, the Missouri Compromise was enacted, prohibiting the abomination north of latitude 36 degrees, 30 minutes (about the middle of MO.)

But with the western push of the frontier, a new compromise was needed. So the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 decreed that the "popular sovereignty" of each territory should decide whether it would be a slave or free state. But then, adherents of both the abomination and freedom migrated to KS to struggle - with their bodily presence - for their respective causes. 1st there was politics. Then the political rhetoric turned violent. Then real violence ensued. KS became known as "Bleeding KS." John Brown, most famously, applied unjustified, murderous violence for his righteous cause of ending slavery and was hanged, but the Civil War ensued because, as Abraham Lincoln sagely explained:

abraham lincoln cease to be divided.png

"A House divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free.

"I do not expect the Union to be dissolved - I do not expect the house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided.

"It will become all one thing or all the other.

"Either the opponents of slavery, will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates will push it forward, till it shall become alike lawful in all the States, old as well as new - North as well as South."

Now we enter our history's second stage in the struggle against the abomination of socialism....

But now, just as the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 broke through the slave-state limitation to the South, the Democratic Party's 2010 health care law has broken socialism's boundary of being so limited....

And just as the free states could not tolerate the spread of slavery into their midst, so too, free, middle-class America - if it still has its historic character - will not tolerate the yoke of socialism put upon our necks.

1st, the unambiguous will of the majority was defied by the vote of Congress on Sunday.

Come November, we will see whether the system can still turn the popular will into the constitutionally permissible legislative will of the majority. If it can, all will be well and the crisis will end....

But come November, if the majority still opposes the socialization of health care delivery and the other central-government intrusions and yet the corrupt bargains and constitutional distortions of Washington deny the majority's will its just expression, then, for the 2nd time in our history, we will enter that dangerous period in which America's house resolves its temporary division. Let us devoutly pray - and commit ourselves to the proposition - that this time, freedom shall be reacquired - peaceably.

[GMA/Stupak screenshot via Newsbusters; photo of anti-socialized healthcare protesters via the Associated Press; Abraham Lincoln graphic via the Washington Times]


I keep thinking of the Manhattan Declaration and what this will mean as the law goes forward saying that we will fund abortion.

Posted by: Susie at March 26, 2010 10:00 AM

As a born-again Christian I honestly believe we are in the last days and the rapture will occur soon. All of these are steps towards a one world government and the rise of the anti-Christ.

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 26, 2010 10:05 AM

I think things will calm down pretty soon as people see the country is on the right track and the economy improves.

Posted by: Hal at March 26, 2010 10:26 AM

Sydney, I am sure that Christians during World War I thought the same, as did Christians in Russian when Stalin took over, as did Christians in Germany under Hitler.
We are not in as desperate situations as any of those people, and prophesying end times is really counter-productive.
I actually think it is a way of avoiding what is happening and our responsibility.
Even Jesus said he did not know the day or the hour, so we should certainly not be predicting it.
Many people have and are enduring far harder difficulties and personal sufferings than what is transpiring in America right now. Our duty is to follow the Lord and be faithful, in prayer and deed. The final days are the Lord's to deliver.

Posted by: Julie Culshaw at March 26, 2010 10:32 AM

Susie, I thought of the Manhattan Declaration this morning, too. I've been starting to imagine what civil disobedience will look like for me. How do I plan for the day when we refuse to pay that portion of our taxes that will go for the abortion tax? Unless they can be stopped, we're gearing up for an insurrection of some sort. We'll either win or lose, in which case I'll be going to jail, I guess.

These are thoughts I'm thinking this morning. I will NOT pay the abortion tax.

Hal, I appreciate your coming on this board, but you do not have a cause in your life worth fighting for, or even dying for at the risk of sounding melodramatic. You do not understand.

Hal, the economy is not going to improve unless the government changes its ways. Today it looks like it will not - extending benefits to the unemployed with money WE DO NOT HAVE? Social Security is going in the red this year, earlier than anticipated. If we lose our Triple A bond rating - and I don't see how we can't - our already awful interest payments will increase.

Hal, we'll see if "things calm down." I"m not seeing it. I'm not feeling it.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at March 26, 2010 10:36 AM

Yes, Julie's right. In fact, the apostles thought Jesus was coming right back.

Of course every day we draw nearer to the day. Things do not look good. We have a president who is now openly hostile to the Israelis, which is very bad.

And Hal, speaking of, this is another point you will not understand. Christians are very protective of Israel and the Jews. This, too, will turn people away from Obama and the Democrats in control.

If we don't win back the majority of the House in November, that means more people don't get it than do. And I guess we're sunk.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at March 26, 2010 10:43 AM

The issue of life is coming to a head - the results of our last election. There are two profound truths here:

1) Each person in the United States is subject to a tax based on their own body. One cannot opt out of this. This is the absence of freedom (choice). And like rape - consent was not granted. There will be many, when they comprehend this aggression, who will use their bodies to fight for their freedom.

2) Subsidizing abortion runs counter to long term cultural interests of the United States. Unchecked, it will only be a matter of time before a move towards mandatory abortion and sterilization will be required for the "unproductive" classes.

The proof of the second is established by the first. If the state can dictate control over the bodies of its people, then force will be used to yield a desired outcome, including removal of unwanted bodies.

Uniting into one body will be the only way to bring this aggression to a halt.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at March 26, 2010 10:50 AM

Hi Jill. In fact, there are some causes in my life worth fighting (and maybe even dying) for. I would certainly fight for universal health care, legal abortion, the right to gay people to marry. I'm not sure I'd advocate "insurrection" if I didn't get my way on those issues. Politics is a bit messy, but things get sorted out over time. In general, progress consists of two steps forward and one step back.

I acknowledge that you're passionately opposed to abortion. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to be unable to make any inroads towards stopping it. I don't understand all the other freak outs, however. Our country went through some major economic problems over the last 18 months. Recovery takes time.

Posted by: Hal at March 26, 2010 10:57 AM

Hal wrote:

In fact, there are some causes in my life worth fighting (and maybe even dying) for. I would certainly fight for universal health care, legal abortion, the right to gay people to marry.

And you decide these on the basis of... what? Personal taste? Weepy sentimentalism?

Part of my particular problem with culture-of-death-promoters is their raw desire to support what will ultimately destroy them (even as it attacks their enemies) and destroy virtually everything which they think makes their "vision of the future" worthwhile... and the fact that they're too blitheringly short-sighted to see it.

If you support abortion (and are willing to die to protect it), then you're willing to die for the "right" to kill whomever you deem to be "less than human", for whatever emotional/political/sentimental reasons that move you at the current microsecond. You're willing to die for a cause which explicitly trains humans to be blase about killing (and tolerating the murder of) other humans--even the most provably innocent ones. And... you think this will help safeguard your old age? If you want to live longer, but your family decides that you're too much of a financial burden, will you "go peacefully into the night" as they starve/dehydrate you to death, or inject you with a nice, not-terribly-distressing injection?

Honestly... how people who are so otherwise intelligent can be so mind-numbingly stupid about the long-term effects of all this is really beyond me.

Posted by: Paladin at March 26, 2010 11:20 AM

Hi Hal,
Jill has made inroads in stopping it. People's hearts and minds have been changed here.

Many here make inroads in stopping abortion everyday.

I spoke at my church last spring. A young lady(age 17)heard my abortion story. She became pregnant that summer and couldn't get my words out of her head. Her baby is alive and growing in her womb because I spoke out.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 26, 2010 11:43 AM


Good luck with Hal. As a lawyer, he has a degree in convincing people that atrocities are acceptable. He's so good at his job, he's even convinced himself.

Posted by: xalisae at March 26, 2010 11:51 AM

I agree with you. People are talking about abortion like never before and hearts and minds ARE changing. Todd Bullis's efforts in Ventura, CA, which Jill posted about, are a prime example.

You don't see the change for one of two reasons. Either you aren't in the midst of it, or you don't wish to.

Posted by: Janet at March 26, 2010 11:56 AM

Julie...I don't care what you say or think. I was stating my opinion. i haven't abdicated any of MY Christian responsibilities.

Look at what is happening in the middle east. I think Christ is coming soon. Do I know Christ's timeline? No. God is not on our timeline. Its just my two cents. Okay with you Julie?

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 26, 2010 12:23 PM

Okay, that sounded really snarky. I apologize.

Christ told us to look for His return and to watch and wait. That doesn't mean we stop working.

If anything, believing in Christ's imminent return makes me work all that much harder to tell others about Christ. It makes me work harder to fight the evil one in areas that enslave people's souls, like abortion.

I know people thought Hitler was the anti-christ. My grandparents used to tell me that. I am not saying Obama is the anti-christ or anything...but I do believe everything happening in the middle east is paving the way for the return of our Lord. May not even happen in our lifetime, but I do believe we are very near the Rapture.

I guess I never expected fellow Christians to jump all over me for believing so.

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 26, 2010 12:28 PM

I think things will calm down pretty soon as people see the country is on the right track and the economy improves.

Posted by: Hal at March 26, 2010 10:26 AM

That is the problem. Socialism ensures that the economy will not get back on track. How long can a socialist country last? Till the wealth runs out. Socialism doesn't foster prosperity.
Right now people are busy hiding their wealth. Tax revenue is falling. The gov't can't borrow any more because there is no one to buy. Read any financial journal or blog. It is the same story. The current population/gov't/economic structure cannot generate a recovery.

Posted by: hippie at March 26, 2010 12:29 PM

the economy is not going to improve unless the government changes its ways. Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 26, 2010 10:36 AM

You hit the nail on the head, Jill. What most of us would consider economic improvement doesn't fit with Obama policies of redistributive change. A couple of years ago, the American Thinker blog had an informative article about Obama and the Cloward Piven strategy of manufactured crisis. It's worth a read. Obama seems to be generating political, social, and economic chaos on a scale that would make Cloward and Piven proud.

He created political chaos through the rushed stimulus bill, excluding Republican input from health care policy, and turning a blind eye to congressional corruption. Reckless spending and policies hostile to job creation are driving economic crisis. What remains is to ratchet up civil unrest to a level that justifies government intervention. That's why I believe he'll put forth a divisive immigration policy.

I pray that enough people in this country see through the left's strategy and resist the urge to respond with violence to the provocation that is sure to come our way. Peaceful civil disobedience serves our cause. Violence does not.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 26, 2010 12:53 PM

In 1962 defense spending was 48% of the federal budget.

It is now 4%.

Soon debt service will be 30% of the federal budget.

We cannot afford to live on credit.

Any civil war will be about fiscal policy.

Socialism punishes the productive.

Capitalism punishes the unproductive.

Posted by: hippie at March 26, 2010 1:31 PM


If it's any comfort: when people ask me if I think we're living in the end times, my reply is "From your lips to God's ears; Lord, have mercy, but I *hope* so!"

Ditto with your comments: any person with an ounce of sense and a modicum of functional brain cells can walk (i.e. fight the culture of death) and chew gum (i.e. hope for Our Lord to come again, and SOON) at the same time.

This is not to make a 1-to-1 comparison with Jesus coming again, and gum-chewing, mind you... :)

Posted by: Paladin at March 26, 2010 1:58 PM

From the Washington Times:

"The federal public debt, which was $6.3 trillion ($56,000 per household) when Mr. Obama entered office amid an economic crisis, totals $8.2 trillion ($72,000 per household) today, and it's headed toward $20.3 trillion (more than $170,000 per household) in 2020, according to CBO's deficit estimates. That figure would equal 90 percent of the estimated gross domestic product in 2020, up from 40 percent at the end of fiscal 2008."

Posted by: Fed Up at March 26, 2010 2:19 PM

Hal, I think things will calm down, but I don't think the economy will improve!

Posted by: Phillymiss at March 26, 2010 2:20 PM

Carla, there is a difference between convincing people not to have abortions (which has always happened and which I have no objection to whatsoever) and convincing society to ban abortions.

I don't see much progress on the latter. I could be wrong.

As you know, I admire your efforts on the former.

Posted by: Hal at March 26, 2010 2:33 PM

Operation Outcry has the world's largest body of evidence that abortion hurts men and women. The time is coming, Hal when Roe V Wade will be challenged and the declarations will be filed. The majority of society is prolife. That is the groundswell of changed hearts and minds.

You will always be my sweet Hal friend and don't you ever forget it!! :)

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 26, 2010 2:42 PM

One heart at a time is all it takes to make a pro-life society.
Our generation may be long gone before it happens, but we have our children to count on to continue our work. Praise God.

Posted by: Janet at March 26, 2010 3:03 PM

I had stated in a comment on a recent blog posting that I was not aware of any significance to the date of March 23, which is the day President Obama signed the healthcare reform legislation into law. March 23 is the anniversary date of Patrick Henry’s famous speech before the Virginia Convention where he uttered the famous words, “Give me liberty or give me death.” Some have suggested that Patrick Henry’s speech, and President Obama’s signing into law of this recent piece of legislation, stand as book-ends at the beginning and end of America as a free republic. Following is the context of this famous line.

"It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace — but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

America is losing her liberty, and this legislation was passed with the use of “the Slaughter Solution,” so it appears that America at this juncture will receive the latter option of Patrick Henry’s famous quotation, “Death!”

There is much in this legislation that brings an end to liberty. For the first time in America’s history the government can enforce penalties upon a person just for being alive. By mandating that every American must have health insurance or pay a fine the government has brought an end to individual freedom. This requirement is unprecedented in that it forces a person to purchase a good or service simply by virtue of their being alive. There is no ability to “opt out” of public healthcare. Each individual is forced to participate or be fined.

This legislation opens up Pandora’s box. It will lead to a cascade of additional goods and services that citizens will be required to participate in as the government becomes the overseer and director of every individual’s life. It is truly the death knell of individual freedom.

It is interesting to note that Patrick Henry’s speech has been linked to the life of the Roman statesman and politician Cato. Cato battled for years in the Roman Senate against an expanding Roman government that sought to exert tyrannic control over its subjects. Cato in 46 B.C. committed suicide when it became apparent that the Senate had lost their epic battle against Julius Caesar. It is said that he preferred death to being subject to a tyrant, which supposedly served as a background context for Patrick Henry’s speech. This makes it seem all the more symbolic that the “Slaughter Solution” is termed as “a self-executing rule.”

Jeremiah 7:30-34 (New Living Translation)
The Valley of Slaughter
"30 “The people of Judah have sinned before my very eyes,” says the Lord. “They have set up their abominable idols right in the Temple that bears my name, defiling it. 31 They have built pagan shrines at Topheth, the garbage dump in the valley of Ben-Hinnom, and there they burn their sons and daughters in the fire. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing! 32 So beware, for the time is coming,” says the Lord, “when that garbage dump will no longer be called Topheth or the valley of Ben-Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter. They will bury the bodies in Topheth until there is no more room for them. 33 The bodies of my people will be food for the vultures and wild animals, and no one will be left to scare them away. 34 I will put an end to the happy singing and laughter in the streets of Jerusalem. The joyful voices of bridegrooms and brides will no longer be heard in the towns of Judah. The land will lie in complete desolation."

The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions:
Address Before the Young Men's Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois
January 27, 1838

"How then shall we perform it? At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

It is not America’s leaders, or a cabal of globalists who have brought about America’s demise. It is her own citizens who have had abundant ease and great prosperity. America’s citizens have used their liberty to pursue a course of sensuality and abominations. It seems symbolic that as the House of Representatives convened Sunday night to vote for passage of this bill that one member of Congress cried out “Baby Killer.” Certainly America’s murder of more than fifty million babies has brought a crushing burden of bloodguilt upon her land.

Judgment ultimately comes from God. It comes after many warnings, chastisements, and only when a people have proven themselves so obstinate that nothing else remains but to send them calamity.

Revelation 2:21-23
And I gave her time to repent; and she does not want to repent of her immorality. Behold, I will cast her upon a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. And I will kill her children with pestilence; and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.

My heart is heavy today. I am observing in the lives of some individuals this same process being played out. Corrections have come and have been scorned. Rebellious hearts have determined to enter into even further transgression against Yahweh. This will lead to a judgment of a much more severe nature.

It is not pleasant to observe the calamity that befalls men and women. Yet it is better to see them crushed by God and turn to repentance than to have them continue in a course of sin and rebellion.

Knowing the weakness of my own flesh I pray that God might be merciful with others as I desire His mercy in my life. Yet I cannot pray that He would withhold that which is necessary, though it be most severe.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 3:05 PM

Hal, if you google "millenialism", you will find many resources for researching just how often people thought they were living in "end times". I think it comes from our inability to realise that we ourselves might not get to see it.
And there have been times in the world where people were suffering a whole lot more than we are in the west, I am sure they were convinced it was "end times". That type of thinking is just common to us all, but I don't think we should focus on it.

I live in Canada, where abortion has been legal for 40 years and paid for by taxes for all that time. There have been people who objected and held back their taxes, only to find their paychecks were garnisheed by National Revenue.
No one says boo about it now, because our objections got nowhere. I don't know how you can object with results about this, short of getting rid of Obama.

Posted by: Julie Culshaw at March 26, 2010 3:29 PM

I think things will calm down pretty soon as people see the country is on the right track and the economy improves.
Posted by: Hal at March 26, 2010 10:26 AM

Hal, just this morning Caterpillar and John Deere announced that this legislation will create huge losses for them. John Deere will face a loss of $150 million this year, and Caterpillar has announced a loss of $100 million in the next QUARTER.

That is just two companies... expect to see more announcements.

This legislation is economy-chilling, if not economy-killing.

Posted by: Elisabeth at March 26, 2010 3:31 PM

Xalisae wrote:

Good luck with Hal. As a lawyer, he has a degree in convincing people that atrocities are acceptable. He's so good at his job, he's even convinced himself.

(*sigh, again*) "...but for Wales?"

Posted by: Paladin at March 26, 2010 3:41 PM


Please don't be so cavalier about the coming of the Lord. None of us knows the time or the hour, however, as we can see a storm coming in the distance, more Christians as never before are sensing that His return is very, very soon.

Do not be like the virgins who did not put oil in their lamps in anticipation of their groom's return and as a result missed him altogether.

And, I would not be so proud of Canada's apparent arrogance. For it too will be destroyed as a nation.

James 5:5-8 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you. 7Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains. 8You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near."

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 4:12 PM

Hal wrote:

In fact, there are some causes in my life worth fighting (and maybe even dying) for. I would certainly fight for universal health care, legal abortion, the right to gay people to marry.

So you appear ready to possibly die in the cause of preserving a woman's right to murder her own child.Then of course you would meet your Maker and face judgement. Do you seriously believe that God looks favourably on the decision of a woman to kill her own child?
Perhaps you should read the following:
"The Old Testament provides most of the information on God's view of life before birth, since it gives us the law. The law specifically addresses the issue of taking the life of a fetus in the book of Exodus:

"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life." (Exodus 21:22-23)

Therefore, the law tells us that a man who induces an abortion or miscarriage is to be punished, indicating that God values life before birth. A verse from Hosea3 says that abortion is a punishment for sin, indicating God views it as bad. Likewise, God expressed His disgust for the Ammonites, who "ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead.."(Source:The Bible and Abortion: The Biblical Basis for a Prolife Position

Posted by: John at March 26, 2010 4:25 PM

I have a deep concern in my soul that there will be no elections. That something will happen that will be presented as a national crisis, whether manufactured or real, and elections will not be held and we will be under martial law. Even as I type this I sense the reality of this possibility on the horizon. We should be ready for almost anything at this stage. How many of us ever thought we would be having a discussion about conscientious objection or all-out civil war in the first place? This is what it has come to.

Posted by: Amy 1 at March 26, 2010 4:34 PM


I am officially "The Christian Thorn in Hal's Flesh", however, if you'd like to carry the mantle for me please do so.

While Hal presents himself as a nice guy, he aborted his first two children and is very proud of that.

He is an atheist and has stood by his comments over the last two years or so. Using scripture on him as no effect as he believes none of it.

You see, Hal has exalted Himself above God and doesn't know it. We know what the end of such people is so just pray for Him and leave him to God because we won't be able to convince him since he has everything figured out.

And, do you really believe that someone who aborted his first two children for the sake of convenience would sacrifice himself for a higher cause? I think not.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 4:47 PM

Amy 1,
Like Swine Flu? Sorry, H1N1??
I hear what you are saying. I wonder how they will prevent the elections. You can almost smell their brains smoking.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 26, 2010 4:54 PM

I strongly believe that Hal will be won by love. He has been here on this board longer than I have. He is reading and watching.

Abby Johnson wasn't a lost cause. Bernard Nathanson, Carol Everett, Norma McCorvey.

Love him.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 26, 2010 4:57 PM

All I can say to you Phil is that Hal must not have thought seriously about creation. Does he seriously believe that the universe,human beings and nature with all their complexities evolved by chance?
Of course they were created by a central controlling figure called God.

Posted by: John at March 26, 2010 5:02 PM

John, I have thought semi-seriously about creation. But, consider this: All of creation could have been the work of some supernatural being that might have no relation to the God in your Bible.

Believing in a god doesn't necessarily lead to believing in your God. (but, as Phil pointed out, I believe in no god)

Posted by: Hal at March 26, 2010 6:07 PM

This legislation is economy-chilling, if not economy-killing.
Posted by: Elisabeth at March 26, 2010 3:31 PM

Wall street disagrees. Look at the five day chart of the DowJones. Businesses need health care reform. The insurance bills are killing us.

Posted by: Hal at March 26, 2010 6:12 PM

I wonder if anyone will comment on Jill's central argument in this post - that vicious threats to politicians before the vote were under-reported, and now post-vote, they are being embellished.

I think there's a big problem with that argument. Even if we assume that Pro Aborts were sending Stupak threatening e-mails and voicemails before his final vote, there is simply no denying that the quantity and frequency of the threats has only increased since the final vote. We don't have to watch Fox or MSNBC to determine that all the threats since Sunday have been from the anti-reform side.

We have to encourage free speech. But the authorities are really nervous about what some violent people with nothing to lose might try to do on April 19th, a key date in the anti-Fed calendar.

Posted by: Dhalgren at March 26, 2010 6:35 PM

This legislation is economy-chilling, if not economy-killing.

Thank you, Ms. Armchair Economist. The passage of this legislation sparked a NYSE and Healthcare shares rally that lasted five days (Monday-Friday).

Posted by: Dhalgren at March 26, 2010 6:39 PM


Hal is a victim.

He is a vicim of the mindset that believes that man has only knowledge from himself. That he, being finite, limited, very faulty in his observation of many things, yet nevertheless, has no possible source of knowledge except what man, beginning from himself, can find out from his own observation. Specifically, in this view, there is no place for any knowledge from God.

At its lowest form, this is tragic.

Psalm 53:1 1 The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, and their ways are vile;
there is no one who does good.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 6:47 PM

Hey Hal:

Perhaps you didn't read about John Deere's and Catepillar's projections on how much this fiasco is going to cost them? And these are just 2 companies.

Unemployment at 12% by December as a direct result of the Obamapelosireid Bill of Destruction.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 6:57 PM

Darkness Falls Upon America

World Mourns As Communist Darkness Falls Upon America

Obama is a Communist
In what is being described as one of the most astounding power grabs in modern history by newspaper headlines around the World, President Obama has succeeded in his audacious plan to remake America into a full fledged godless communist empire barely one year into his term with the enactment into law by the US Congress of his mammoth health care plan innocuously named H.R. 3200-Americas Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 and described by one Kremlin legal expert as having “nothing at all to do with health, but everything to do with control.”

To fully grasp the full and grim implications of Obama’s power grab over the American people with his Nationalization of the United States entire health care industry and student loan programme accomplished with the passing of this new law, it must be remembered that since taking office on January 20, 2009 he has also taken over their automobile, mortgage, and banking industries too with the Internet said being next “in his sights”.

More insidious than these takeovers that have been destroying America’s once vibrant capitalistic system is the new regime these once free peoples are now destined to live under, and where under their new health care law will require all of them to carry a National ID card (page 58) and allow their government unlimited access to all of their bank accounts and personal records (page 159).

And in a chilling instance of the ancient prophecies for these time of “The Mark of the Beast” becoming reality, the National ID card all of the American people will now be required to possess (regardless of age) is to be combined with their new government ID card under their upcoming new immigration laws allowing them to work and is biometrically designed to “read” the backs of their hands.

[Note: According to the Christian Bibles Book of Revelations, the ancients warned of a future time when everyone, both small and great, rich and poor, free or slave, would receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads which without they would not be able buy or sell anything.]

Though many have tried to warn these Americans about the plans for their Nations destruction at the hands of the Obama backed communist forces who have taken over their country [including our March 2nd report “Russia Warns US Communist Threat Endangering Entire World”] the propaganda organs in the United States have rendered silent nearly all opposition and dissident views from reaching them and they remain asleep to the true dangers soon to come upon them.

The same, however, cannot be said about the rest of the World where during this past week alone, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon signed a cooperation agreement with a Russia-led security group of ex-Soviet Nations as a counterbalance to the US led NATO forces (who are currently expanding their wars against the Muslim Nations to steal their vast oil and gas wealth) and one of China’s top military officers called for his Nation to build the World’s strongest military and move swiftly to topple the United States as the Global “champion.”

To how ignorant the American people have become to the yoke of communist oppression being pressed upon them by Obama’s forces we can glimpse from a report in today’s Los Angeles Times that says “The Democratic administration of Barack Obama, who denounced his predecessor, George W. Bush, as the most secretive in history, is now denying more Freedom of Information Act requests than the Republican did.”

And as to why Obama and his communist forces would seek to keep from the American people what is really being done to them we had, also, previously warned about in our February 12th report “The “End Of Days” Are Upon Us, Warns Russian Patriarch” and wherein we had stated:

“Patriarch Cyril warns in his report though that the Motherlands efforts to halt the West’s godlessness “may be too late” as evidenced by the rising use among their political, military, banking and celebrity elite classes of the ancient Babylonian “Sign of the Horns” [formed by extending the index and little fingers while holding the middle and ring fingers down with the thumb, see photo bottom left] honoring the ancient god Marduk (Sumerian spelling in Akkadian: AMAR.UTU meaning “solar calf”).”

Now most important to remember about these ancient enemies of our human race Obama and his communist forces have aligned themselves with is how truly predictable they are; including the United States passing of their health care bill during the 2010 Vernal (Spring) Solstice [when daytime and nighttime are equal length] as a “celebration” to the ancient goddess Ēostre whose name was given to the Christian festival of Easter but whose origins stretch back into the mists of time to the mystery religions of Rome where the Cybele cult preformed their child sacrifices on what was then known as Vatican hill, but today is known as the home of the Pope.

And in these monsters predictability by aligning themselves with the ancient dates and ceremonies of old also comes the most secure protection from their destructive plans; such as the United States March 4, 2001 airing of the Lone Gunman television programmes pilot episode where an American government plot to fly remotely controlled planes into the World Trade Center was discovered, and which was exactly 6 months and 7 days from when the actual attack occurred.

It goes without saying, of course, that the propaganda media organs beholden to their godless communist masters will never inform their peoples about these things, and for those of us who do there is always great danger. But as the events in the United States are now showing to even those most in denial about what is truly happening, the time nears when hard choices will have to be made by everyone if freedom for our human race is to be saved.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 7:10 PM

This legislation is economy-chilling, if not economy-killing.
Posted by: Elisabeth at March 26, 2010 3:31 PM

Wall street disagrees. Look at the five day chart of the DowJones. Businesses need health care reform. The insurance bills are killing us.

Posted by: Hal at March 26, 2010 6:12 PM

Hal, don't be dopey. Trading volume is light on days when the market is positive and volume heavy on days when it is down. Corporate insiders are selling at unprecedented rates. That's because corporate execs want to sell their stock before it is worthless. Hedge fund managers say the market is overvalued. The money going into the market is coming from banks who borrow from the gov't at zero and don't want to lend because loans are an illiquid risk and they can't charge enough in interest to compensate for the risk and illiquidity.

Use your brain, Hal.

Posted by: hippie at March 26, 2010 7:11 PM

The only reason some companies have decent balance sheets at all is because they have cut so many jobs. Those employees are someone else's customers, you know.

This is the opposite of recovery. This is the opposite of growth.

Unemployment is far higher than the official numbers.

Posted by: hippie at March 26, 2010 7:17 PM

We live in truly historic times. Those who live in the United States are witnessing the end of a nation whose founding fathers promised “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” The great experiment to see whether a free people could govern themselves has come to an inglorious end.

Rather than being content with food and covering, the church has embraced a spirit of covetousness. Rather than living to do the will of the Father, the church seeks to manipulate God into doing her will and pleasure. She has churned out books, sermons and teachings by the millions promoting the pursuit of selfish fulfillment. American Christians have been feeding on evil dressed in the robes of righteousness.

It is the bondservant of God who is truly free. When we hold onto our personal freedom and choose our own way, we walk as slaves. Will it not be a merciful thing for Yahweh to remove the liberty His people now enjoy that they might learn that true freedom is found in a life wholly surrendered to the leading of His Spirit? Will it not be a great kindness that He remove their material prosperity that they might begin to discern the depths of the riches of their spiritual inheritance in Christ?

Luke 14:33
"So therefore, no one of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.”

Let me state plainly that a Christian’s best life now is not one of material prosperity and selfish pleasure. Your best life now is the one that will lead to conformity to Christ. Only when you are conformed to the image of the One who “emptied Himself” and “took upon the form of a bondservant” will you be prepared to receive glory and honor and an imperishable inheritance that is reserved for those overcoming sons of God.

Liberty must be surrendered. Liberty in America has already received a mortal wound. We are now observing the death throes of the nation. Soon she will be laid to rest.

You need not wait until God brings the nation into poverty and slavery to embrace a complete surrender of your will to God. The Spirit is inviting you today to yield your life entirely to His direction. Those who give themselves freely will receive a much greater grace.

The Spirit at this moment is speaking through the book of Jeremiah. When the armies of Babylon surrounded Jerusalem and were soon to break through her walls, Yahweh told Jeremiah to give counsel to the people.

Jeremiah 21:8-10
"You shall also say to this people, 'Thus says Yahweh, "Behold, I set before you the way of life and the way of death. He who dwells in this city will die by the sword and by famine and by pestilence; but he who goes out and falls away to the Chaldeans who are besieging you will live, and he will have his own life as booty. For I have set My face against this city for harm and not for good," declares Yahweh. "It will be given into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he will burn it with fire."'

People of God, the Christians in America are just like the Jews in Jerusalem before it was destroyed. They are holding out in hope that they might yet retain their freedom, keep their lives, and still pursue the course that their own soul dictates to them. Though the Spirit is speaking to them that they must surrender their lives completely to whatever the Father chooses for them, they are not willing to surrender. Due to carnality, or fear, they hesitate.

It will be far better in the days ahead for those who will surrender now. Do not hesitate. Before you see the nation fall; Before you see the cities burned and your possession stripped from your hands; Before you see children slain and the oppression of cruel men, give all you possess into the hands of the Father. What is entrusted to His hands can never be lost. Has He not promised a hundredfold return to those who surrender all things freely?

Mark 10:29-30
Yahshua said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake, but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.”

If you do not surrender all to the Father’s hands, will you not be like those Jews who waited too long in the days of Jeremiah? God has set before you the way of life and the way of death. Do not be deceived! The slayer is standing at the door even now.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 7:49 PM

Yes, Phil, the founders aptly noted that bad people can't handle freedom.

Posted by: hippie at March 26, 2010 8:23 PM

Dhalgren, can you make any comments without name-calling?

Hal and I disagree all of the time without resorting to the tactics of two year old children. At least I can respect him, even if I don't agree with him.

Posted by: Elisabeth at March 26, 2010 9:02 PM

John, thank you for referencing those Old Testament scriptures forbidding the killing of pre-born children. There are also some compelling writings in the early church (i.e. The Didache and the Church Fathers.) The Didache, although is not canonical, specifically states "You shall not kill a child by abortion, or use potions to kill a child by abortion..." (I'm paraphrasing, but it certainly was clearly taught by the Catholic Church that abortion is a grave moral evil.) This teaching is unchanged and unchangeable. I have really enjoyed reading these forums and will continue to pray for hearts to be converted in protecting the sanctity of human life.

Posted by: Doe at March 26, 2010 9:27 PM


If you haven't noticed, I have been loving Hal, not coddling him.

And he knows the difference, believe me.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 9:35 PM

Jill wrote:
“I've been starting to imagine what civil disobedience will look like for me. How do I plan for the day when we refuse to pay that portion of our taxes that will go for the abortion tax? Unless they can be stopped, we're gearing up for an insurrection of some sort. We'll either win or lose, in which case I'll be going to jail, I guess.
These are thoughts I'm thinking this morning. I will NOT pay the abortion tax.”

I have been thinking of what civil disobedience will look like for me as well. I would not be against going back to jail, but I am married now…and for a number of reasons that option will no longer be available to me.

A few people going off to prison would not really help the cause...though it would likely make those individuals feel better. A very large number of people risking prison…that might help. But how does that occur? Not by itself. People have bills to pay. Children and other dependents cannot be abandoned. Even the best of us will need help to sacrifice like that. Leaders could expect special treatment from Obama.

Think of the Montgomery bus boycott…an alternate transportation system needed to be organized. Working poor HAD to get to their jobs on time or risk getting fired…an impossible option for them. Like any strike…it could only happen with lots of help from all kinds of supportive folks and craftily organized. A huge task! Going the distance required lots of leadership and encouragement within churches.

Jail as a constructive option? Wow. Do we prolifers have it in us? We can’t even get prolifers to work together to change an unpopular Washington state parental notification law. Would not one prolife group choose to undercut another? Is it possible for us to work with tea party or other folks who have a problem with obamacare for other reasons? Wow. Sigh. Wow.

We better get busy changing the law now so we never have to face paying this sick abortion tax. Maybe the coming 12% unemployment rate will help.

Posted by: Tom R at March 26, 2010 9:53 PM


Government is instituted by God. When that government usurps that divine mantle and resists the Word of God they abdicate that mantle.

We are Christians, i.e., followers of Christ first and Americans second. When the government falls into the hands of evil men, we not only have the right but we have the duty to resist, to protest and yes, even war against.

Did not Peter ask Jesus, "Shall we obey men"?

Barack Obama will not take me or my family to hell with him.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 10:13 PM


I'm simply not going to obey an abortion tax, if it comes to pass. And so to jail I may go.

My time might be better spent elsewhere?

Maybe I'll write a letter. Seems to be what jailed civil disobedients do with the time on their hands, like MLK Jr. and Paul.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 26, 2010 10:16 PM

Don't forget the apostle Paul Jill.

One of his best letters, Phillipians, was written from jail. He was in jail because he stood for truth. His attitude could only come from an intimate relationship with a Holy God.

Read it, you'll be inspired at what true humility is, complete dependence on God, not false platitudes and piety.

Those of us who choose to take a stand will need to have Paul's attitutde, be willing to give up everything. Wow, what a priviledge this would be.

We win baby, life wins, God wins!

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 10:32 PM

HisMan, I should have said "Apostle" before Paul... :)

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at March 26, 2010 11:01 PM

That's got a ring to it.....Apostle Paul Jill.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 26, 2010 11:40 PM

If you, or anyone, find yourself in a position to be able to not pay Caesar his abortion tax…go for it. You have my support. Just let me know how I can help…I will be there for you in every way I can. I will contribute to you making bail…pay your mortgage…pray for your safety…you name it. My heart is with you as I long to be able to join you in resistance. I just burn inside knowing that I will have to pay it.

The abortion tax forces complete and uniform societal approval of child killing (both real and symbolic). Having to give my money for abortions just really sticks in my craw. We will all be bending over for the abortion industry…or be in jail. Given the two choices my strong preference is for the latter…but I have a vow I cannot break. I will have to do the former. Gerrr. This law can’t stand.

Posted by: Tom R at March 27, 2010 11:33 AM

To those who think they will not pay an abortion tax, dream on. The Empire will extract the funds one way or another.

YOU will end up in a concentration / "re-education" camp whose goal is to either break you and re-make you into a pro-abort - or kill you. It is that plain and that simple.


As my drill instructor made very clear the first day of boot camp lo, those many years ago, the only "rights" you have are those you are willing to kill for.

You only have a "right" to free speech to the extent you are willing to kill those who would use any means available to gag you.

And, you only have a "right" to life to the extent you are willing to kill those who would use any means necessary to kill you. And so on and so forth.

Civil War II??? Bring it on! It is time to settle the issue of the Constitution (obey it or ditch it) once and for all.

Posted by: BobMan at March 27, 2010 10:44 PM

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - C.K. Chesterton, Chapter 5, What's Wrong With The World, 1910

Holy Virgin Mary Pray For Us in Jesus Christ Our Lord's Holy Name

Posted by: Praxedes at March 27, 2010 11:46 PM

Great quote, Praxedes. It was G. K. Chesterton-the G is for Gilbert. It was probably a typo on your part.

Posted by: Doe at March 28, 2010 8:05 PM

At least I can respect him, even if I don't agree with him. Posted by: Elisabeth at March 26, 2010 9:02 PM

If it is indeed true that Phil had two of his children aborted, then I'm afraid I have no respect for him at all. To call him a murderer of his own defenseless children is not calling him names, but simply describing an historical fact. IF this is indeed true, I not only do not respect him, I despise him profoundly. As aware as I am of my own short-fallings, for a man to sanction the premeditated and cold-blooded murder of his own defenseless children, and then to be proud of doing so, makes me lift my eyes to heaven and say, "How long, Oh Lord, before the wicked are judged?" (and anyone who knows the Bible knows the answer to that question).

There is one thing you should keep very much in mind, Elisabeth. The one sin God does not forgive is the unrepented sin. And what God himself does not forgive, neither ought you or I, unless, of course, we think ourselves wiser than he. Consider what Roman’s chapter 12 says: “Do not repay evil for evil, revenge is MINE, says the Lord”. That’s right. Revenge. Not mine to take in my hand in vigilante style, but God’s, to execute to his own glory in the time and manner of his choosing. God is slow to anger, and patient, but terrible and horrifying in his wrath to those who spurn his patience.

Is tardy judgment a sign of mercy? Hardly. Remember Canaan. God merely gives the wicked time to accumulate more wrath on themselves, while they laugh and say "God does not see and He does not remember". (We call it ‘giving someone enough rope to hang himself’) Oh God sees, all right. All too well does he see. And unbearable as it may be, yet the horrifying bitterness of his undying wrath will perforce be born for all eternity by those who reject his mercy and spurn his grace, by those who in their hard-hearted foolishness think that by refusing to see God, he, in turn, will not see them nor notice their evil deeds.

So, no, I do not, cannot and will not respect this person Phil, if indeed what was said about him is true. May the blood of his unborn children call to heaven for judgment and for the shocking anger of his creator upon him. Pray for Phil, plead with him to repent while the blood of Christ will still avail him, rebuke him – yes. Let us do all these things, and more so those who have access to Phil and others like him. But respect him? To do so is to condone his heinous deeds. I despise him with all my heart, yet pity him deeply.

God will be glorified in Phil as he will be in all his creation, whether by condemnation or by redemption, but the greater glory to God is in a sinner being freed from hell by taking hold of the cross of Christ. The cross of Christ is Phil’s only hope, not our respect.

As to the comment about civil disobedience, my strong recommendation is the following. If this monstrosity cannot be repealed - whether by the spinelessness of the GOP or by the perfidity of the progressives, or by the moral bankruptcy of the general American public - that all God-fearing Americans should vote with their feet. Sell whatever you have at the best price you can (do it soon, because with the way the economy is going the longer you wait the less you'll get) and emigrate. There are, praise the Lord, still many countries in the world where neo-natal murder is still called murder. While you can avoid paying for abortion, struggle on as best you can, no guilt is on your hands. When that is no longer possible, consider which is best, to enjoy your comfortable life-style, or to raise your hands to God, free of the blood of innocents. For if you choose to pay for the murder of children, then a murderer of children you will be - as harsh and uncompromising as that sounds.

Posted by: Toqueville at March 29, 2010 9:07 AM

Sorry, server glitch. Double published.

Posted by: Toqueville at March 29, 2010 9:52 AM

A thousand pardons, Phil! The name I should have used was 'Hal'. Stupid mistake. My apologies!

Posted by: Toqueville at March 29, 2010 10:02 AM

"Pro-lifers have been amazingly proficient for decades at channeling their anger and protest against the legalized slaughter of preborn children into productively trying to stop it."


I am not sure 'channeling their anger' is an accurate description of what pro-lifers, particularly, pro-lifers who are followers of Christ.

"Stuffing or suppressing our anger" IMO would be a more accurate description.

This is not healthy, spritiually, emotionally or physically.

I am sure there are redemptive ways to deal with anger, but 'channelling it' if that is even possible is probably not one of them.

Jesus said, " We should turn the other cheek and give our assailant another bite at the apple. Even if I count my buttocks I only have there more 'cheeks' to offer. (Is there some cultural or historical context that will provide a more complete understanding of 'turning the cheek'?)

Jesus said we should 7 times 70.

In both of these examples it is an individual who is being sinned against making a decision to overlook and/or forgive an attack against himself personally.

But what do we do when a weaker person is the victim of the attack?

Todd Bullis can choose to 'turn the other cheek' and forgive his attacker. Should he turn the other cheek and look the other way when a child, any child, is being assaulted?

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at March 29, 2010 4:02 PM

Or as the story goes we just sing our hymns a little louder to drown out the cries of the inoncents.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at March 29, 2010 4:06 PM

I am also skeptical how 'productive' the efforts of pro-lifers have been at preventing the elimination of more than 50 million pre-natal children in the USA.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at March 29, 2010 4:14 PM

Wow I just don't get it. You all sit and judge and criticize and condemn. One group blames one side and so on. You fight and argue and blame! STOP THE MADNESS! Hear is the answer to your problems, Understand you cannot stop change. You may not like it. You may not believe in it. Take what you are given and make the best of it. You can not change what your neighbor believes and you may not like it. The only thing you have control over is YOU! Everyday I choose to wake up and love everyone for their differences. I except change, and I don't judge others for believing something different than me. If America is so evil and so bad and if you hate our government then guess what? YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE! I may not agree with everything that is happening right now but I have faith in god and my country. It is gonna take time for us to heal. Maybe to you this seems naive but I will not allow all this hate to change me. This is my 2 cents.

Posted by: Melissa at April 3, 2010 1:39 AM

Oh okay Melissa. I'm free to leave? Thanks. Wish you had known that when you and your ilk moaned and grumbled for 8 years during George W. Bush's presidency.

Hey, wish the freedom fighters who fought against Hitler knew "you can't stop change." I mean, just because they didn't agree with Hitlers takeover of Europe and the extermination of millions of innocent people doesn't mean they should fight against it or speak out against it. I mean, sheesh...they could have just LEFT Europe.

You ever hear the expression "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"? Learn from history Melissa. Don't be a mindless sheep. Thats my two cents.

Posted by: Sydney M. at April 3, 2010 8:51 AM

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