200+ medical records, baby parts found in abortionist's dumpster

hodari%204.jpgYesterday the Detroit News broke a story that pro-lifers had recovered aborted babies, medical records, and "blood soaked medical waste" from a dumpster at WomanCare in Lathrup Village, MI, owned by late-term abortionist Alberto Hodari (left).

Last night I spoke with Dr. Monica Miller, the pro-lifer who kept the evidence until notifying police. Monica faxed me her police report and copies of documents retrieved from Hodari's trash. She also detailed more of what they found. This morning she emailed me photos, one you see posted on page 1, the rest on page 2....

Hodari is denying charges, blaming "a new employee on Saturday," according to the DN. But pro-lifers recovered medical waste and records from 3 of Hodari's 6 mills - Lathrup Village, Southgate, and Sterling Heights - over the course of 4 Saturdays. Monica called Hodari's explanation "a bunch of B.S.," according to DN.

The volume of medical records and various identifiers recovered was staggering - over 200, according to Monica.

These included whole medical charts - intake forms, patient histories, how mothers became pregnant (rape, incest, "victim of failed birth control," "victim of no birth control"), gestational age of baby, signed consent forms; procedure descriptions, and recovery room records; insurance forms; loan applications (more on that in another post); names; addresses; phone numbers; copies of driver's licenses; and office appointment schedules.

DN reporter Kim Kozlowski copied down names and phone numbers before police arrived, telling Monica, "I'm wondering if I were to call them, what their reaction would be."

Monica approximates the total number of babies recovered as 25. This was hard to ascertain since the babies were in parts. One's skull was only slightly smaller than a tennis ball. One rib measured 2". The estimated age here was 20-25 weeks. But most were 1st trimester - if that.

Monica told me, "I said to myself, 'I am not willingly going to turn these babies over to them [authorities]. I don't care if they arrest me.' I told them, 'This is a moral issue. These babies don't belong in the trash. We got them out, and we're going to bury them.'"

Authorities complied, and Monica has since taken the babies to a funeral home for safekeeping.

Biohardous waste recovered included bloody suction cannulas; bloody laminaria; used condoms and condom wrappers; IV bags with tubing and sharps attached; partially filled and empty drug vials; and bloody gauze.

Some charts were originals and dated the very day they were retrieved from the trash, a seeming violation of federal privacy laws. This calls into question Hodari's ability to keep accurate records, as mandated by the state. And how also does Hodari accurately maintain income records for tax purposes?

Monica's group also found several bloody but empty gauze tubes. These are tied at one end and the other placed at the end of the suction hose in a glass jar during an abortion. The idea is to catch small baby parts and let blood flow through. If these were bloody but empty, was the aborting woman pregnant to begin with? This leads to this strange waiver found in Hodari's trash (click to enlarge):

This form maintains Hodari isn't liable if it is later determined the abortee was never pregnant. It also makes the patient responsible for Hodari's mistakes. Never saw a legitimate medical form stating the latter, that's for sure.

There are more photos below. View them and weep.

[Hodari photo courtesy of the Detroit News]


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Comments:

How horrifying, Jill. I hope this man is brought to justice.

Posted by: Nathan Will Sheets at March 11, 2008 1:03 PM


We will all be, Nathan.

Words simply can't describe all of this. How did we arrive at this point?

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at March 11, 2008 1:12 PM


Those poor babies. May their souls be cradled in the arms of our Blessed Mother.

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 11, 2008 1:15 PM


And for a heapin' helpin' of my unbridled rage:

Pro-aborts: That's a FOOT. Those are fingers! How can you look at those body parts of an innocent baby and support this?

Yes, I'm talking to you Laura, Hal.

Jess- can you look at this and still believe that these tiny people deserve to die simply because of where they live for 9 months?

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 11, 2008 1:18 PM


How horrifying! These poor children are victims of parental violence!

Posted by: Carrie at March 11, 2008 1:29 PM


Horrifying is the only word to describe it. I am grateful to Monica for her bravery.
Lord, have mercy.

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 1:40 PM


Sick! Yes, I second "how did we come to this point"????

S.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 11, 2008 1:50 PM


Man...I don't have the words to describe my feelings right now...

How can people support THIS barbarism and call it CHOICE???

Posted by: RSD at March 11, 2008 1:51 PM


You don't understand Jacqueline!

For Hal and Laura, these ARE babies but their lives are worth nothing to them - the only thing that matters is that they have the right to say whether these babies live or not.

Hal's right to convenience and sex without any responsibility, trumps any babies, that he might FATHER, right to life.

It's as cold blooded as that.

They KNOW these are human beings, they KNOW these are babies with arms legs feet, brains, eyes fingers toes

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 1:51 PM


My guess is that PCers will derail this post and start talking/joking about something else unrelated.

S.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 11, 2008 1:59 PM


Anonymous:
Or attacking the Catholic Church!

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 2:04 PM


Ya know, I think that the pro-life side has all the biology and sound philosophical argumentation on its side. This is clearly the emotional and common-sense "argumentation." What other angle do people need to see this from in order to become pro-life? Emotional, scientific, intellectual, spiritual, you name your game, the evidence for pro-life is overwhelming.

Yet how quickly I forget. Prayer is the most effective weapon. Those of you who read this who pray, please pray an Our Father or Hail Mary or whatever kind of prayer is most applicable to your faith. Right now. Pray for an end to this holocaust.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at March 11, 2008 2:05 PM


The arguments against abortion are no longer effective. It's not because people don't believe or accept the biological, emotional or philosophical arguments. It is simply because our hearts are so hardened that really it will only be through prayer AND penance that this scourge will be eliminated in society.
When a mother and/or father can willfully plan the destruction of their own child, flesh of their flesh, then really anything is possible in such a culture. Nothing will be off limits.
Abortion profanes something so beautiful and so sacred.

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 2:16 PM


"Ya know, I think that the pro-life side has all the biology and sound philosophical argumentation on its side. This is clearly the emotional and common-sense "argumentation." What other angle do people need to see this from in order to become pro-life? Emotional, scientific, intellectual, spiritual, you name your game, the evidence for pro-life is overwhelming.

Yet how quickly I forget. Prayer is the most effective weapon. Those of you who read this who pray, please pray an Our Father or Hail Mary or whatever kind of prayer is most applicable to your faith. Right now. Pray for an end to this holocaust."

I agree with all of that, especially the fact that all evidence is on our side. That's what convinced me. My prayer is not very good yet; yes, in church, of course I pray, but on a daily basis, not so much! But, you are correct - we should pray about this.

However, as far as the thread is concerned, our challenge is to keep them on topic this time...the PCers have great skill in changing the topic when presented with pictures.

S.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 11, 2008 2:16 PM


Excellent points, Patricia. I might add that evidence convinced me, but my heart had already been open to it by experiences with infertility (and probably, some one else's prayers somewhere!)I had to be open to seeing the evidence.

S.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 11, 2008 2:19 PM


Sadly, the Hals and Sallys of this world will NOT comment on this post. They know that there is nothing they can say to justify what we can see with our own two eyes.

It's just a shame that we can't put these photos on the nightly news and force the general public to face what it is they condone by their inaction every day. But, no, we wouldn't want to "offend" anyone by showing them pictures of the truth. That would be so mean...

Posted by: PajamaMama at March 11, 2008 2:19 PM


Yanno, it would be pretty easy to find out if he's telling the truth.
If he has a current contract with a medical/hazardous waste disposal company and a new employee just threw the stuff in the wrong bin, it was just a mistake.

The two clinics that were busted near my home didn't even have a current contract with a hazardous waste service. (You would not believe how expensive it is!)

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 11, 2008 2:30 PM


See - comment unrelated to the shocking nature of the picture! I mean seriously, FF, who cares if his employee put the waste in the wrong bin? It's the nature of the "waste" that should concern everyone!

S.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 11, 2008 2:36 PM


Hey PajamaMama very informative blog you have there!
Well I will say that on another thread about a week ago I challenged Hal to check out Abort73.com.
He disappeared from the thread and never posted again that day.
I'm sure he has some sort of excuse, but he suddenly vanished.

My experiences with people who actively promote abortion (and I have about 36 years now) is that they have closed themselves off to the truth of the situation due to personal experience with abortion (that is their activism becomes a way of easing their "choice").

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 2:49 PM


Yeah, Laura it sure is expensive getting rid of all those dead baby parts - making sure absolutely NO ONE ever sees what really comes out of a pregnant woman's uterus!!

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 2:52 PM


Yanno, it would be pretty easy to find out if he's telling the truth.

So what if he's telling the truth. He killed those babies.

Did you not see the FOOT?

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 11, 2008 2:53 PM


How could any abortion clinic employ someone so medically untrained and stupid enough that they would throw all of these precious little babies (and medical records) in the dumpster.

I am sure it was hard to find anyone willing to work for him in his nightmare of horrors chop shops. He was probably paying people without any medical training maybe minimum wage to work for him. If he hired someone who knew better, he would get busted from the inside.

He does have tons of explaining to do. Babies in a dumpster? Medical records especially those taken the same day? Used condoms?

Has anyone contacted the college where he spoke to get a statement? This story just confirms them to be the fools that they are.

Posted by: Sandy at March 11, 2008 2:57 PM



Hey PajamaMama very informative blog you have there!
Well I will say that on another thread about a week ago I challenged Hal to check out Abort73.com.
He disappeared from the thread and never posted again that day.
I'm sure he has some sort of excuse, but he suddenly vanished.

My experiences with people who actively promote abortion (and I have about 36 years now) is that they have closed themselves off to the truth of the situation due to personal experience with abortion (that is their activism becomes a way of easing their "choice").

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 2:49 PM

Hey Patricia, I know Heather had challenged Hal to watch "choice blues" he kept making excuses why he wouldn't. I'm sure he never did. To real I guess.

Posted by: Sandy at March 11, 2008 2:59 PM


"Sadly, the Hals and Sallys of this world will NOT comment on this post. They know that there is nothing they can say to justify what we can see with our own two eyes."

Sorry, I wasn't lurking right away. I will comment. I don't think "blood soaked medical waste" should be in a dumptser. There, I said it.

Posted by: Hal at March 11, 2008 3:01 PM


Where are all of the post abortive pro choicers?

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:04 PM


"I don't think "blood soaked medical waste" should be in a dumptser."

Hal -

I think the issue here is what the waste IS, not so much whether or not it should be WHERE it is. Of course it shouldn't be in a dumpster; but the body parts of human beings who have been wilfully killed should not be consider "medical waste" either.

And, why weren't you lurking promptly? Don't you realize that you should ALWAYS be lurking here?

S.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 11, 2008 3:05 PM


"they have closed themselves off to the truth of the situation due to personal experience with abortion"
That makes sense, Patricia. That is what I think is going on with Sally.

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 3:05 PM


Oh fiddle sticks. So much for patient confidentiality.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:07 PM


Where are all of the post abortive pro choicers?

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:04 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Work, school, perhaps "Mommy and Me" class or doing some other significant thing with their lives. Why do you ask?

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 11, 2008 3:09 PM


Oh, you're soooo careful Hal. You just can't bring yourself to type "baby parts" or "human babies" or FEET, or ARMS or EYEBALLS....

So much denial.....

You KNOW what you saw in those pictures.

BTW, have you checked out Abort73.com?
You never did get back to me on that one.

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 3:09 PM


Ok, here are a couple things I am confused about:

Used condoms in the garbage? Why are they there? Are people having sex there or something?

Why would someone give a woman an abortion that she has to pay for when she's NOT PREGNANT? Pregnancy test? Ultrasound? Are these NEW concepts to Mr. Hodari?

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 3:09 PM


I wonder how many women's secrets were just "outed." Stupid industry.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:10 PM


Also, "victim of no birth control?"

How is someone a victim because they were reckless and didn't use birth control?

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 3:13 PM


FF, speaking of having a life, why don't you GET ONE? Cuz you're sure here.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:13 PM


"Used condoms in the garbage? Why are they there? Are people having sex there or something?"

Most dumpsters are used by more than one institution. (and, people have sex almost everywhere these days I hear)

Patricia, I must have missed your post about Abort73.com. I'll look now (I'm not always lurking you know)

Posted by: Anonymous at March 11, 2008 3:14 PM


Elizabeth, you just beat me to that one.LOL!

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:14 PM


I think all the women who's information was found in the garbage should be contacted and they should sue his ass.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 3:15 PM


Carla @ 3:05

and Hal too.

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 3:15 PM


Hal, while you're at it, go and watch "THE CHOICE BLUES"...WARNING!... actual abortion in progress. Sandy, thanks for the reminder.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:16 PM


(and, people have sex almost everywhere these days I hear)

I know THAT...but at this clinic? Cause THAT'S appropriate.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 3:16 PM


Ok, here are a couple things I am confused about:

Used condoms in the garbage? Why are they there? Are people having sex there or something?

Why would someone give a woman an abortion that she has to pay for when she's NOT PREGNANT? Pregnancy test? Ultrasound? Are these NEW concepts to Mr. Hodari?

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 3:09 PM

Elizabeth,
I think he was just ignoring the tests completely. To costly and they might actuyally determine a patient doesn't need an abortion. As Jill stated, the patients are taking responsibility for his errors.
Heads in beds =$$$ you know.

I would assume that if any of his victims had to follow up with a real doctor for any number of complications, and they determined she was never pregnant due to hormone levels? He could swiftly whip out this signed document.

Interesting that he would throw away medical records. What could be that explaination? Hiding money from the IRS? Hiding medical documents so noone could prove they visited his chop shop??

Yes, and the question of used condoms keeps coming up in my mind. DNA testing will come in handy for this one.

What a total scum bag baby killer. How can this man even be called human.

Posted by: Sandy at March 11, 2008 3:17 PM


Hi Patricia,
Yes, Hal too. Sorry. Sally is screaming at me in other post.

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 3:18 PM


Otherwise Carla, how can a person look at a foot, and eyeball, a spine and call it medical waste?

Or maybe they're just seeing what they want to see.

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 3:19 PM


I'll bet the abortionist was having sex with some of his patients. That might explain the condoms.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:20 PM


This guy fits the "Hard up" bill!

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:21 PM


Or maybe they're just seeing what they want to see.

Bingo!

And yes, Sandy, he is a scumbag...there's a special place in Hell all picked out for him already I'm sure.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 3:21 PM


One way or another, abortionists are going DOWN! One by one.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:23 PM


Elizabeth,
It's not uncommon for abortionists to do abortions on patients who are NOT pregnant. That was the situation with a number of abortionist's here in Canada and has been an ongoing problem in the "abortion industry"
Remember these people are the "bottom feeders" of the medical profession. They're in it for the money - nothing else (most of the time).

Sandy, it's sure hard to see the face of Christ in Hodari...but....

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 3:24 PM


3:14 was me.

Hal

Posted by: Hal at March 11, 2008 3:27 PM


"I think all the women who's information was found in the garbage should be contacted and they should sue his ass."

I agree Elizabeth.

Posted by: Hal at March 11, 2008 3:29 PM


Hey PajamaMama very informative blog you have there!
Well I will say that on another thread about a week ago I challenged Hal to check out Abort73.com.
He disappeared from the thread and never posted again that day.
I'm sure he has some sort of excuse, but he suddenly vanished.

My experiences with people who actively promote abortion (and I have about 36 years now) is that they have closed themselves off to the truth of the situation due to personal experience with abortion (that is their activism becomes a way of easing their "choice").

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 2:49 PM

Patricia,

Thank you. I haven't blogged in some time and have been meaning to get back to it.

And I, from personal experience as a reformed pro-abort (in theory AND in practice) can support your statement without any reservation.

Having had an abortion, I was always pro-choice and basically stayed away from any scientific information that would challenge my belief that my 12-week-old fetus was the "size of a bean" and was "just a blob of cells". Even during my two pregnancies with my two born sons who are now 5 and 2, my brain would not let me make the connections...it would have been just too much to handle and I guess I couldn't allow any negative thoughts to intrude on my happiness during those pregnancies.

One of the times in my life, though, that I would call myself "brave" for lack of a better word, would be the time that my guilt over my abortion had started to eat at me more and more. It had gotten worse since my second son was born and we had essentially decided not to try for any more children. It was then that I began to enjoy my boys to their fullest, and I would find myself looking at their beautiful little faces and expressing my awe to my husband at the fact that these precious little people were once inside my body...that my body actually built them under God's instructions. And it became inescapable to me the reality of what I had done when I aborted my first child 17 years before. I had taken the life of my own child who would have probably looked much like the sons I have now.

Deciding to look on the internet for all of the information I could find about fetal development and abortion was the most petrifying experience of my life. Because, you know, searching for truth, even for truth that may be damning to yourself, is terrifying. But it was also the most freeing thing I have ever done and now my eyes are opened to the horror of abortion and the lies that are being told to women every day. That somehow abortion can make them equal to men. That somehow abortion has no negative repurcussions. That somehow a mother's right to choose should carry more weight than her unborn child's right to continue to LIVE.

The only visual that I haven't been able to bring myself to look at has been the Silent Scream video. I've even watched Choice Blues on youTube, which is a graphic video of an abortion from the point of view of the abortionist, but for some reason, Silent Scream has been too tough tough for me to bring myself to watch. I guess it's because I hear that you can actually see the fetus trying to move away from the cannula, which would be the first time that I would have actually seen the fetus in the living state.

So yes, graphic pictures, in my opinion, are the only way to make the world see what abortion really is, and shoving the pictures in the face of the public is the only way you will ever get them to look at them. They will act like they are offended at first, or even indignant, and they will argue until they're blue in the face about how the pictures are unnecessary, or fake, or pictures of stillborns, or whatever else they have to say to reconcile the reality of what they're looking at. But they will have to internalize what they've seen and hopefully it will plant the seed of doubt in their formerly protected little minds.

I know, I used to be one of those people.

Posted by: PajamaMama at March 11, 2008 3:30 PM


It's not uncommon for abortionists to do abortions on patients who are NOT pregnant

This makes me want to vomit. I mean what do they say while it's going on? Do they ACT like they're doing a normal abortion?

And then, let's say the woman regrets it and is depressed about it and then oh I don't know...kills herself..and SHE NEVER EVEN HAD AN ABORTION because she was never even pregnant to begin with.

ick ick ick.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 3:32 PM


Dear PajamaMama,
Thank you!! You and I are on the same journey. I had an abortion 17 years ago. The Truth is in the pictures and the ultrasounds of my other children. I appreciate you being here very much and for being so open and honest about your experience.
I can't bring myself to watch Silent Scream yet either.

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 3:35 PM


yes. He should be sued.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:36 PM


Abortions on women who aren't pregnant?! What?!

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 3:37 PM


Oh PJ momma you are so very brave!

"you know, searching for truth, even for truth that may be damning to yourself, is terrifying..."

Absolutely. I can't help but wonder how many women who've had abortions, now looking at their small children, go through this whole process.

My heart goes out to you...

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 3:39 PM


I am so anti abortion and I understand how people are telling us to pray which is good and I will and we will - but what gets me is that a big majority here believes if you don't happen to be of a certain sect or accept a certain Diety then you are going to hell. People, we have to put these silly notions behind and unite whatever your religion or not and fight for the good and life.

Look at Nat Hentoff - he doesn't believe in God yet he is really pro life - I am tired of the religious chauvinism.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 11, 2008 3:42 PM


PJ mama, It's so good to hear your honesty. Carla, yours too. I know of a few women who claim that they don't have any remorse or regret about their abortions. It used to irritate me, but I actually believe that a lot of them are in extreme denial. I suppose they build up a wall to protect themselves. What do you 2 think? I could use a little help in understanding them.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:42 PM


Carla and Pj momma - you don't have to watch Silent Scream or any other video.

You now know what abortion is - you went through it personally, you've both gone through a long long journey.
Be gentle to yourself and allow yourself to heal.

I can barely look at these pictures myself anymore. Maybe it comes from being a mom, who knows.

Peace and consolation to you both!!

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 3:43 PM


Carla, I had read on your blog about your former friend who said "My abortion just didn't affect me the way yours did you." Did you believe her?

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:45 PM


Anon-

I think Alberto Holdari is going to Hell..not because of any of his beliefs..but because of his evil actions. Performing abortions on non-pregnant women that he may butcher and they will never be able to have children. Sicko.

Sometimes I wish we could string people up by their thumbs.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 3:46 PM


Heather,
Denial can last on average 7-9 years. By then someone can be married, have a career and "ready to start a family" things can fall apart in the walls that they have built. That is my personal experience.
Other women will stay in denial long after but if you look closely there are areas of their lives that seem to be spinning out of control. Drinking, control issues, anger, etc. They can also become staunchly prochoice.
I have met some that have an abortion and immediately regret it. The grieving and healing can begin.

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 3:48 PM


Anonymous,
No one can judge what will happen to another after death, not even what will happen to Hodari.

God's mercy is unlimited. I think what many people seek is justice, especially since the unborn are so terribly innocent and vulnerable. They have no voice to cry out for themselves.

Abortion is a human problem and all humans regardless of religion need to work together to end this scourge.

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 3:49 PM


And then, let's say the woman regrets it and is depressed about it and then oh I don't know...kills herself

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 3:32 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One of the most depressed and suicidal demogrphics in America is single mothers with small children. The percentage of women suffering from post-abortive psychological problems is tiny.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 11, 2008 3:49 PM


Elizabeth, I tend to agree. It's the most heinous act ever!

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:49 PM


Heather,
No I don't believe her. Her marriage is on the rocks, she is gaining tons of weight and never seems at peace. Never seems happy.

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 3:50 PM


I don't believe her, but I do love her. :)

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 3:51 PM


Carla, thank you for that response. Yes. You've just hit the nail on the head! One woman I knew who aborted already had 2 children. She had an abortion, and then she had 2 more live births. She is always miserable.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:55 PM


Carla, we posted at the same time. You said it better than I did. This girl is never at peace, but I never mention the abortion. Why? I've done it twice, and I've gotten the same response both times. "I'm glad I did it." "I just could not deal with that man [ the sperm donor] for 18 years."

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 3:59 PM


One of the most depressed and suicidal demogrphics in America is single mothers with small children.

eeek...I better go get it over with then.

Laura, you're ignoring the point of what I was actually trying to say, which is not surprising, but I will reiterate it AGAIN.

If this doctor did an abortion on a woman who was never pregnant, and she became depressed and killed herself as a result..do you not find that man despicable? The woman was NEVER EVEN pregnant and feels extreme depression about having the abortion and she kills herself and that's OKAY with you? He could have given her a test or done an ultrasound that would have shown her not to be pregnant, and the woman could have moved on with her life. But he didn't, why? Because he wouldn't have made money then.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 4:00 PM


Elizabeth, they never find these abortionists despicable. Weird, huh?

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 4:03 PM


BTW, Where's Hal gotten to?

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 4:07 PM


Here's an interesting story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=527268&in_page_id=1879

More and more, all the time...

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 4:17 PM


"Last night I spoke with Dr. Monica Miller, the pro-lifer who kept the evidence until notifying police."
Kept the 'evidence'? Everyone with a television knows that tampering with 'evidence' makes the 'evidence' worthless.
Of course she won't turn the 'evidence' over to authorities.

And how about that consent form? Kinda blows the assertion of lack of disclosure now doesn't it.

As for the irresponsible disposable of hazardous waste, they deserve any fine leveled at them.

Posted by: Sally at March 11, 2008 4:22 PM


Sally, what about all the medical info in the garbage?

Contact those women and sue him.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 4:27 PM


As for the irresponsible disposable of hazardous waste, they deserve any fine leveled at them.

Posted by: Sally at March 11, 2008 4:22 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

..Not to mention that when Monica Miller knowingly took posession of the hazardous waste and removed it from the premises she committed a felony.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 11, 2008 4:31 PM


Those pictures make me want to cry :/

Posted by: prettyinpink at March 11, 2008 4:34 PM


Not to mention that when Monica Miller knowingly took posession of the hazardous waste and removed it from the premises she committed a felony.

Hmmmm....yep...and when people hid slaves in their homes as part of the underground railroad..they could have gotten into a ton of trouble too. Sometimes, the bigger picture just matters more.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 4:35 PM


Sally and Laura, I know you're worried about Monica's welfare. Take heart that authorities thanked her and conducted their own search of Hodari dumpsters yesterday, retrieving more of same.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 11, 2008 5:27 PM


Laura, Sally,

how do you feel when you look at the pictures aborted children?


Posted by: Jasper at March 11, 2008 6:04 PM


I am 16yrs old and doing a speech for abortion i am very against abortion and do not agree with anything i have seen if you read this and you know anything that could help me please send me an email at cowgirlhottie1616@yahoo.com i just don't see how any woman would want to do something like this if you don't want the child at least have it and give it up for adoption so many people don't have a chance to have a baby it hurts me to know that people actually kill their own flesh and blood if you don't want baby don't have sex and if you do want to have sex have safe sex if you get pregnant that way then you probably are being sent a message from God remember everything happens for a reason God may say in the bible to punish your children but not so far as in to kill one of his beautiful creations again if any one has any info please send it to my email Cowgirlhottie1616@yahoo.com

Posted by: Robin at March 11, 2008 6:44 PM


I'm back, lurking again. I went to the abort73.com website. Watched the video. Anything else I'm supposed to see there?

Posted by: Hal at March 11, 2008 6:44 PM


Good for you, Robin.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 6:56 PM


I think Robin must be taking one of those new birth control pills. She seems to skip all of her periods.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 11, 2008 7:10 PM


LOL FF I was going to say something about her punctuation but you did a much better job than me!

Posted by: prettyinpink at March 11, 2008 7:23 PM


Oh Hal, Please tell me what you saw in the video.

Whether you recognize it or not Hal, you are the father of 2 dead babies. Those babies love you and forgive you for what you did to them. That may seem really corny and lame right now but it's the truth.

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 7:37 PM


Whether you recognize it or not Hal, you are the father of 2 dead babies. Those babies love you and forgive you for what you did to them. That may seem really corny and lame right now but it's the truth.

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 7:37 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope. Hal's two babies are alive and thriving.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 11, 2008 7:41 PM


And the other 2 are dead.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 7:45 PM


FF, hal just might be making some progress. Get out of his way.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 7:48 PM



I think Robin must be taking one of those new birth control pills. She seems to skip all of her periods.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 11, 2008 7:10 PM

Gee,
And I thought critters and children were off limits to your abuse.

Just another lie.

Posted by: Sandy at March 11, 2008 7:50 PM


One of the industries most revered abortionists going down in a ball of fire.

I bet this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Where's NARAL on this????

Again, the right to lifers step up to the plate to have to do the dirty work to stop the madness.

Posted by: Sandy at March 11, 2008 7:53 PM


Sandy, right. Who is policing the abortion industry on the PC side?

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 7:55 PM


FF, Sally,

when are you going to face reality? drop the cynicism for a few minutes, act like adults and tell us what you think about the pictures above. Do you have the courage?

Posted by: Jasper at March 11, 2008 7:59 PM


Just one day after View co-host Whoopi Goldberg declared to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that she’d enjoy a threesome with her and Pelosi’s husband Paul, who was sitting in the audience, Goldberg saw fit to chide conservative co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck over her anti-abortion views. Justin McCarthy writes:

Is Whoopi Goldberg becoming the Rosie O’Donnell type bully? It appeared that way on the October 3 edition of “The View.” A discussion about Hillary Clinton’s $5,000 a baby entitlement plan quickly descended into a heated exchange between Elisabeth Hasselbeck and Whoopi Goldberg about abortion.When Hasselbeck noted that $5,000 a baby could lead to fewer abortions in the world, Whoopi told Hasselbeck to “back off” because Hasselbeck has never “been in a position” where she “had to make that decision.”

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 8:07 PM


Just a little dirt I dug up on rabid pro deather, Whoopie.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 8:08 PM


I saw that clip! Gotta love that Elizabeth.

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 8:17 PM


I know. I love her.

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 8:22 PM


Wrong again Laura.
Hal is the father of 4 children, 2 of whom are dead.

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 9:10 PM


My guess is that PCers will derail this post and start talking/joking about something else unrelated.

Oh please. Surgical things can indeed be "yucky," and IMO abortion is that way, more and more so the longer gestation has gone on.

Posted by: Doug at March 11, 2008 9:32 PM


Doug,
Did you see the little HANDS, FEET, and FACES of the "yucky surgical things"?

Posted by: Carla at March 11, 2008 9:51 PM


I'm prochoice.

When I see those pictures I wish we had some sort of..tank?..to put the fetii in. Until we do, abortion is necessary. Women have the right to refuse organ donation if they so desire.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 11, 2008 10:23 PM


When I see those pictures I wish we had some sort of..tank?..to put the fetii in. Until we do, abortion is necessary. Women have the right to refuse organ donation if they so desire.

Anon, WHAT are you talking about?

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 11, 2008 10:34 PM


"Whether you recognize it or not Hal, you are the father of 2 dead babies. Those babies love you and forgive you for what you did to them."

Are they dead or do they forgive me? They can't be both. And if they forgive me, then it's cool I guess. you forgive me too?

Posted by: Hal at March 11, 2008 10:41 PM


These pictures make me want to cry. :(

Posted by: Bethany at March 11, 2008 10:59 PM


They are physically dead but live on in heaven with Christ. And yes they can forgive you too.

My forgiveness is irrelevant. The question is: Do you forgive yourself?

Why are you on this blog? It's very strange really.

You still haven't told me what you saw in the video. Hmmm,,, I wonder why you won't write what you saw....????


Anyway I'm going to bed. You think on it Hal? Maybe watch the video again if you've blocked the images out. Just to refresh your mind.

One final thought: You are the father of 4 children Hal.

Posted by: Patricia at March 11, 2008 11:00 PM



"One final thought: You are the father of 4 children Hal."


Oh my god, I never thought of it that way. Lightbulb goes on over my head, and I fall to my knees and ask Jesus for forgiveness. Goodnight all.

Posted by: Hal at March 11, 2008 11:18 PM


Isn't it just a tiny bit obvious to everyone that Sally, Laura and Hal get off on upsetting people with their sarcasm, vulgarity, cold-heartedness and their Christian bashing. They know full well what these pictures are all about, it's nothing new to them, they don't CARE, and they never will.

I too, wonder why they spend so much of their time here. They're not winning anyone over to their side, nor are they here to gain ANY new insight which would change their views.

Obviously, they want the attention they aren't getting anywhere else, so they have to resort to their usual sarcasm and political correctness rather than face the truth.

WHO CARES what they think or say?

No one is going to change how they think, so stop getting so tweaked over their comments. They can't look any more ridiculous if they tried, so just pity them and be glad you aren't them.

Posted by: Mike at March 11, 2008 11:59 PM


Mike, I agree. I know a few people just like them in real life. The key words there are " very small doses."

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 6:37 AM


Mike, I've kind of dismissed Laura and Hal as trolls. Sally seems like she wants to change, but her heart is hardened.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 6:39 AM


I wonder what Hal's wife would say. Hal, put her on.

Posted by: Carla at March 12, 2008 6:44 AM


Isn't it just a tiny bit obvious to everyone that Sally, Laura and Hal get off on upsetting people with their sarcasm, vulgarity, cold-heartedness and their Christian bashing. They know full well what these pictures are all about, it's nothing new to them, they don't CARE, and they never will.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Excuse me?
We are the voice of mainstream America.

Most of America is either pro-choice or doesn't really care about the subject. Look at the presidential candidates - all pro-choice except for McCain, who couldn't care less.
People are running out to vote for the two Democratic pro-choice candidates by a three-to-one margin. Why do 'ya think that's the case?

We may be minority "trolls" on this board, but out in the REAL word we represent the prevailing opinion in the US.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 12, 2008 7:15 AM


God forgive those mothers who had their babies killed.


God forgive the abortionist, Hodari and his accomplices for killing the babies physical lives, and helping the mothers to kill the life of God in their souls.

May our Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us all. "For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world." (From the chaplet of the Divine Mercy.)

God bless Monica and her friends in their courage to undertake this difficult task. It is truly a corporal and spiritual work of mercy.

God bless you Jill for posting these very difficult photos.

Now people, this is the biggest moral issue of our lifetime, perhaps the biggest moral issue of all humanity, because it is a direct attack on the rights of God, who created the souls of each of these tiny babies out of nothing. We all belong to God, although He has endowed us with free will. We can choose to do His will and live. Or we can do our own will and be selfish, even vicious and take the lives of the very children he sends us. If we do so and do not repent and beg His forgiveness for these and all our sins, we shall surely die. Therefore, choose life, that you may live.

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants," Deuteronomy 30:19

Posted by: Paul at March 12, 2008 7:46 AM


Amen

Posted by: Carla at March 12, 2008 7:49 AM


Hal only cares about himself.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 7:58 AM


Funny how PIP, FF, Hal and their ilk finally chime in when all they have are comments about the poor punctuation of a young pro-life commenter and how their only reaction at seeing the dismembered body parts of a dead human being is "so, big deal".

Shoo, fly. Go spend the afternoon stomping puppies and leave us alone.

Posted by: PajamaMama at March 12, 2008 8:14 AM


You do realize that PIP is a converted and devout pro-lifer?

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 12, 2008 8:18 AM


Mike,
Notice Hal did not answer any of my questions. Hal is in terrible denial now. He's not here for facts. He's not here to debate. Whereever he's faced with a tough question he backs out. He won't describe what he saw on Abort73.com. He knows what he saw - lots of dead babies.

Hal is here because he's troubled. I don't know how old he is or how long ago they had their children aborted but like many who have had abortions they need to feel "good" about what they did. They need affirmation.

Kate Michelman, an apostate Catholic, had an abortion in 1969. She claimed that the Roe vs Wade decision was a "benediction". Benediction in the Catholic Church is a special blessing, usually involving the Holy Eurcharist. To compare this murderous decision with one of the most sacred rituals in the Catholic Church is unspeakable. Kate Michelman KNOWS what she did to that child of hers. She's spent her WHOLE life trying to prove to herself and the world that her choice was the right one and drag others to commit her choice.

While her circumstances were very difficult to be sure, she did not have to kill her baby. I had a friend in EXACTLY identical circumstances as Ms Michelman, only 5 years later (1975) and she has a daughter ALIVE today because she chose life.

And Laura, abortion was foisted on your country by 9 MEN and a FAKE case. YOU are not the voice of mainstream America. McCain and Clinton represent the vestiges of the Worst Generation, as the baby boomers are now being called. This generation, my generation, has unravelled society bit by bit. Let's hope they reap what they have sown.

Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 8:25 AM


Pajamamama, do you bother reading the whole thread? Why don't you look at the rest of my comments.


Posted by: prettyinpink at March 12, 2008 8:27 AM


whoops, *did. Looks like I should improve my grammar too ;)

Posted by: prettyinpink at March 12, 2008 8:46 AM


McCain and Clinton represent the vestiges of the Worst Generation, as the baby boomers are now being called.

Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 8:25 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I really have a problem with you defining McCain as a member of the "worst generation."
The man voluntarily stayed behind in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp until he could get all of his men out - enduring torture and refusing to leave them behind.
I don't care if you don't like his position on abortion (I agree with very few of his positions) but labeling him as someone who has "unravelled society" or wishing him some sort of evil payback is really uncalled for.
Who are YOU to question his character? You chose to have an abortion, and I can say in absolute certainty that McCain has never had one.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 12, 2008 8:48 AM


Excuse me, I would NEVER have an abortion under any circumstances. I can say that unequivocally. I have been involved in the prolife movement since I was 14. I've worked on numerous prolife boards, for Birthright and I have counselled women. I have NEVER EVER had an ABORTION!! I have four beautiful babies who are 18, 15, 13 and 10! It would be unspeakable to even consider this option, in my mind.

As for McCain, I know about his war history. However, any man (or woman) who promotes the instruments of the culture of death especially abortion will get no break from me. If he can't promote and protect human life and the right to life for all, then he's working to pull down the very society he swore to defend as a soldier.

He's just another power hungry politician IMO.

Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 9:12 AM


And as for McCain never having had an abortion - well of course he can't as a man.
BUT..
If he slept with any woman prior to his marriage and that relationship broke up he TRULY has no way of knowing for sure whether that woman got pregnant and had an abortion.
Many men fail to think about this situation. I have a girl friend who was in this situation and quietly came home, had the baby and put it up for adoption. The man never knew he fathered a child.

Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 9:16 AM


Sorry, I mistook you for another pro-lifer who's had an abortion.
I stand by the rest of my post.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 12, 2008 9:17 AM


and I by mine.

Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 9:25 AM


Who are you voting for, Patricia?

Posted by: prettyinpink at March 12, 2008 9:49 AM


Laura,

would you ever have an abortion? would you ever work at an abortion clinic?

Posted by: jasper at March 12, 2008 9:50 AM


Laura,

would you ever have an abortion? would you ever work at an abortion clinic?

Posted by: jasper at March 12, 2008 9:50 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depends on the circumstances.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 12, 2008 9:55 AM


"I too, wonder why they spend so much of their time here."

I think it's important you guys don't simply talk to each other and think you are in touch with the way the country is thinking. It's very possible if you only interact with like minded people. I'm hear to remind you there are millions of us who 1) want abortion to stay legal, 2) want stem cell research, 3) want full legal right for gay people 4) don't believe in an imaginary all-powerful superdelegate, 5) want Obama elected our next president.

Some of you might just find the courage to re-examine your views if you realize there is more diversity of thought than you normally encounter.

I don't know anyone who goes to church (except one secretary in my office), wants abortion illegal, or voted for Bush. It's good for me to visit here and hear the views I don't otherwise come into contact with. It's good for you too.

If Jill wants me to leave, or thinks I'm a distraction, I'd be happy to. I like you guys (most of you) and don't want to outstay my welcome.

Posted by: Hal at March 12, 2008 9:55 AM


Well, PIP,
I'd love to vote in the American election but I can't cuz I'm Canadian!
However, I liked Huckabee. Maybe his time will come in the future. I would not be able to vote for any presidential candidate in good conscience if I were American.
Not to worry, it's been like this in Canada for YEARS. There have been some elections I've spoiled my ballot. That was a hard decision to come to.
The last federal election we had, there were 2 prolife candidates one from the Conservative party and one independent. The conservative guy was a good Catholic, prolife. The other was evangelical and prolife. The conservative guy lost by 516 votes. The evangelical got 516 votes. So his entering the race helped the good candidate not get elected. He divided the prolife vote. Many strong evangelicals will not vote for a Catholic.

I know the fellow and his wife and we had quite a discussion in WalMart one day. I told hiim if he ran again, we would mobilise and get out and help the conservative guy win. I've never been politically active this way before but I do plan to follow through on this. I tried to make him see that he was really hurting the prolife cause but he just didn't see it that way. So, we have a liberal member of Parliament who is pro abortion, pro divorce, pro everything.

Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 10:06 AM


Hal,
I don't think anyone wants you to leave.

People tend to surround themselves with those who think alike. It's only reasonable, otherwise a person would be in conflict with people all the time!

However, I can only speak from a Canadian point of view. Christians are the ones who are retreating from society because we are not allowed our views. The liberal mindset is very intolerant of views other than their own. Witness the pulling of ads from bus stop signs, TV and so forth. Universities in Canada are no longer welcoming prolife student groups despite the fact that there is quite a need and an intense desire by a significant portion of the student population for these groups and the discussion they bring. In fact, at York, 2 weeks ago an abortion debate was shutdown.

OUr human rights tribunals are trying to suppress any sort of thought other than the liberal agenda - and it's done under the guise of hate literature.

But it's not hateful to mock Christ, to urinate on pics of the Virgin Mary, or smear feces on holy pictures. It's not hateful to attack priests for their homilies against the prodeath culture.

The left without realizing it, is creating a police state, a gradual totalitarian regime where you can ONLY be PRO-gay, PRO-abortion, PRO-euthanasia, PRO-embryo stell cell research etc. etc. etc.

No one in the workplace discusses religion except to mock it. So a person keeps quiet, gradually sensing who is for God and who is not. Then little by little those are the people you talk to about these things.

There is a young woman in my library who wants to have more kids. She has 3 to date. I'm the only person she talks to about this because everyone tells her she's polluting the planet etc.

Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 10:21 AM


I understand Patricia, I too am working hard-- to increase pro-life Democrats out there.

Posted by: prettyinpink at March 12, 2008 10:27 AM


I also think that Hal and Laura and others don't realize how mainstream the prolife view is.

These people are quietly going about having their large families while the liberals are not reproducing themselves.

I read somewhere that in the US, states that have been solidly democratic may soon be republican in the years to come because of the above factor.

Those in favour of abortion and population control are now advocating a 2 child or 1 child policy. One of the main reasons touted is that this will in effect stop those people who's beliefs are against this sort of thing from reproducing and outstripping those who want to save a tree over a child.

Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 10:55 AM


Patricia,

I saw this pro-life shirt once that said:

"When environmentalists start saving babies, I'll start saving trees."

Hehe...It made me smile.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 12, 2008 10:58 AM


"I also think that Hal and Laura and others don't realize how mainstream the prolife view is."

I only know what I see around me (pro-choice) and what I read in the polls.(somewhat pro-choice), and of course, what I read here. It's very interesting. As I've said before, the pro-life position I can understand, but some of the other stuff I read here.....


Posted by: Hal at March 12, 2008 12:19 PM



Oh my god, I never thought of it that way. Lightbulb goes on over my head, and I fall to my knees and ask Jesus for forgiveness. Goodnight all.

Wow. You are seriously lost and have no idea what you're in for.

This really makes me sad.

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 12, 2008 1:34 PM


Jacque, I was thinking the same thing. Hal, maybe one day this will be your reality! You need guidance.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 1:40 PM


I only know what I see around me (pro-choice) and what I read in the polls.(somewhat pro-choice), and of course, what I read here. It's very interesting. As I've said before, the pro-life position I can understand, but some of the other stuff I read here.....


Posted by: Hal at March 12, 2008 12:19 PM

Hal,
I think that the reason why so many people say they are for choice is because they have been bam boozled by the pro-choice mantras and MSM.
If people really saw abortion for what it is.
If everyone had been given information that Jill posts on this site, I think you would see an overwhelming switch.

I know many women who are pro-choice, but would never have an abortion themselves. If they knew the reality of this industry I know they would change thier minds.

Posted by: Sandy at March 12, 2008 5:24 PM


"I know many women who are pro-choice, but would never have an abortion themselves"

That's a big part of the pro-choice community. Many people just don't think it's right for the government to ban abortion, even if they don't like it, would never have one, and would try to convince others not to have one.

Posted by: Hal at March 12, 2008 5:42 PM


I also think that Hal and Laura and others don't realize how mainstream the prolife view is.

These people are quietly going about having their large families while the liberals are not reproducing themselves.

I read somewhere that in the US, states that have been solidly democratic may soon be republican in the years to come because of the above factor.

Those in favour of abortion and population control are now advocating a 2 child or 1 child policy. One of the main reasons touted is that this will in effect stop those people who's beliefs are against this sort of thing from reproducing and outstripping those who want to save a tree over a child.

Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 10:55 AM
................................

Ridiculous! My liberal parents wanted lots of kids. Unfortunately only 3 of mom's 9 pregnancies produced children. The two of us with children are PC. Sister with no children is PL. My parents have 13 PC descendants and 1 PL so far. Most of us are political independents.

Posted by: Sally at March 12, 2008 6:48 PM


That's a big part of the pro-choice community. Many people just don't think it's right for the government to ban abortion, even if they don't like it, would never have one, and would try to convince others not to have one.

Posted by: Hal at March 12, 2008 5:42 PM

Hal,
If the information that Jill provides went mainstream, the number of abortion supporters would go way down. The pioneers of the abortion movement admitted they lied about how many americans supported abortion prior to r v w.

Your side wants to hide the reality of abortion to keep people naive about the industry.

Posted by: Sandy at March 12, 2008 7:40 PM


Sandy is right. The PCers and pro-aborts HATE it when their dirty secrets are revealed.

They better all brace themselves because more and more of the evidence comes out all the time. They can run, but they can't hide. The truth is out...and it's the ABORTION industry ITSELF who is outing itself by it's carelessness and blatant disregard for the women it is supposedly so concerned about.

Pretty soon, the media will not be able to hide the stories...there's too many of them to ignore anymore.

Roe v Wade's days are quickly coming to an end.

You can only dupe so many people for so long.

Posted by: Mike at March 12, 2008 8:09 PM


"Hal,
If the information that Jill provides went mainstream, the number of abortion supporters would go way down. "

What information on this site do you think is not generally known to the American public? Planned Parenthood lied to get a building permit? Yawn.

Abortion kills "babies?" Most people know that.

Too many hormones in the water supply? yep, that might do it. (oh wait, that has nothing to do with abortion)

Posted by: Hal at March 13, 2008 12:29 AM


In the words that Jesus spoke on the Cross,

"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they have done,"


Lord, forgive us and our nation for killing your precious gifts that have been given to us.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 13, 2008 10:48 AM


Sure would be interesting to run DNA tests on those used condoms.

Posted by: hippie at March 13, 2008 11:11 AM


Here's the link to the video Dr. Monica Miller shot of the children found discarded in Hodari's dumpster:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=on_aCpgBsbA

Posted by: Kevin Kukla at March 18, 2008 1:37 PM


In relation to the original article, I think it is a huge violation of privacy for the Doctor to throw away records and hazardous waste. I hope that he is fined for breaking the laws pertaining to his actions.

Now for my two cents:


"We all belong to God, although He has endowed us with free will. We can choose to do His will and live. Or we can do our own will and be selfish, even vicious and take the lives of the very children he sends us"


Even though I am not a religious person, I agree completely with this statement. And that is why I am pro-Choice. Although, I always found myself in the middle ground, labeling myself as Pro-Choice, then secretly thinking in the back of my mind that if put in the situation where I was destined to chose, that I would not be able to go through with Abortion. When I got pregnant and had twins at the age of 15 I honestly did not think much about the subject. I of course did not know of the multiple pregnancy until much later on. Although it was a big surprise and a lot of hard work, I was and still am very happy with my decision, my choice. I honestly cannot imagine my life without my two wonderful children. However, last year my partner and I found ourselves in a tough position. Call it "victims of failed Birth control" or what have you, but I was indeed pregnant again. Without hesitation we chose to abort. Honestly, it was one of the most mentally freeing decisions I have ever made. I finally found out where I stand on the Subject once and for all. If I had not gone through with the procedure, I would be 6 months pregnant now. I apologize for offending any of you or your Gods, but having another child right now was not in the game plan. Luckily we found out about the pregnancy immediately, so the Abortion was quick and easy. So when you ask my about my opinion on the graphic pictures, in my case, there were no fingers or toes or beating hearts, just a big bloody bag of cells.

I want to go back to school in August to become a biology teacher, I am helping to open a small business, I just got a new job and bought a super cute two bedroom house and have a great new car that is unfortunately too small for 3 car seats. Really, there was no choice for us but to abort. Imagine that I had had another baby. How would I take care of the two children I am already struggling with? How do I explain to my 5 year olds that mommy is pregnant, and now we have to sell all of your stuff so that baby can have diapers and clothes? Or, lets say I give it up for adoption. How do I tell them that mommy is pregnant, but you are not going to have a baby brother or sister to take home? In my defense, I am a young mom, and do not have enough time or money to take care of 3 kids. So what then? Go on welfare for the next 18 years so that YOU people can pay for this baby that I do not want and I cannot take care of? It is IRRESPONSIBLE to have a child that you cannot care for! Think of all the starving children in the world. Even in the United States, the most powerful developed nation in the world, there are millions of families struggling to survive under the poverty line. An inexperienced worker receiving minimum wage can hardly afford to take care of themselves let alone take care of a child? What answers do you have for someone making less than 600 dollars a month who finds themselves pregnant? Are you going to tell them to have it anyway because God will save them a special spot in heaven? I am sorry, but we are living here and now and I am not going to put myself in a position where I cannot feed my children or afford my mortgage, and I would NEVER expect anyone to do the same. So I will cry forgiveness on my death bed for the choices I have made because I need to survive today.

Honestly, I don't regret it. And if there is a god then YES he/she will forgive me for whatever atrocities I have done throughout life. But I think that he/she will understand that I did it to make my life and my children's life better. I have had nothing but support from family and friends for my decision. And if my daughter, or anyone for that matter were to ever be in a similar situation, I would fully support her in ANY CHOICE she makes for herself.


I proudly remain pro-choice. That means Pro abortion, pro adoption and pro pregnancy. Call it a moral issue, a religious issue or whatever, when it comes down to it, it remains a PERSONAL ISSUE. That also means that I respect your decision to chose "life" and I only pray that you respect my decision to make the right choice for me. Remember, You are not going to hell for anyones sins but your own. And God Teaches nothing but forgiveness. And for those of you bible thumpers that want to disagree, I am going to copy and paste a sermon from MY church that fully backs up my decision. Warning, it is long so read it if you are interested, disregard it if you are not.

SERMON: A Theological Argument for Abortion

I’m going to do something I’ve not really done here before: I’m going to give you a theological argument, supporting both birth control and abortion. I’m doing this because as a theologian, I believe that the issues of birth control and abortion are, at their most fundamental levels, not issues of individual rights, but theological issues, and that support for either side must ultimately be presented in the form of a defensible theological argument.

If the option of pro-choice is to be a religious position, eventually, it will have to be argued that there are times and cases when God demands an abortion. Not simply permits, not closes His or Her eyes to, but demands it.

The fundamental position of both the Roman Catholic church and the pro-life movement in general is that the most important of all considerations is the brute fact of a single individual human life. Every single human life, simply by virtue of being a human life, is considered to be sacred at every stage of development, even at conception. And more sacred than any other consideration. It is the quantity of life that is being defended, and not quality of life. This is consistent, historically, throughout most of the Catholic Church’s positions, and throughout most consistent pro-life arguments, as well.

This is how and why a Pope can stand in any large and desolate metropolitan city, looking in the faces of thousands and millions of women and children who are born to beg, born to sell their bodies and their souls in order to stay alive, born to die of starvation and disease–this is how he can look at those people, and tell them that it is a sin to practice birth control. Because the Bible and God command that we “choose life”, and the word “life” means individual human lives, every single one we can produce.

So birth control is seen as a sin against God, and cannot be permitted.

Likewise with abortion. As the Christian writer Tertullian said eighteen centuries ago in his brilliant and terse formula, “That is a person which will be a person: you have the fruit already in the seed.” And if it is to become a person, then from the start, that individual life is the sole focus of God’s concern, and either to actively stop conception from taking place, as birth control does, or to actively terminate the development of that zygote and fetus into another human being, as abortion does, is seen as a sin, a horrible crime, and must be stopped at all costs. As a theologian might put it, “God demands it.”

This is why those who think of themselves as pro-life have such zeal and such fervor and such a deep commitment to stopping what they see as a murderous crime against not only the individual conceptions, fetuses and children, but against God Himself. But now let’s look more closely at this.

If one human life is good, then two are better, and a million are better yet, and the six billion we have on the earth now are miracles of life to be welcomed and encouraged. But why stop with only six billion? Why not six trillion? The question is not when to stop population growth, but how it can ever be stopped.

How can the Roman Catholic church or pro-life people ever be in favor of birth control or abortion? No matter when it happens, the argument against it will be the same. People committed to the pro-life position will be called on to explain by what authority the new individual human lives are to be denied existence or terminated in their development. If an individual life, in and of itself, is always good, no matter how many children the mother has had by what age, no matter how many are crowded into a single woman’s life, a family’s life, or the squalor of inner-city ghettos, then how could anyone committed to “pro-life” ever argue for birth control or abortion?

Even if there were six trillion people, it would still be terminating the development of an individual human life, still be opposing our own will and our own values to God’s–assuming, of course, that these people have this God-business right in the first place.

Now many people would just say to leave God out of it, that this God is only a projection used by churches and politicians to control people. And it is certainly true that what passes for “God” is often little more than the hand puppet of charismatic preachers and politicians. But the issue of religious responses to life has to include a theological statement in God-language, because that’s how most people think.

This is such a complex topic, there are a lot of dimensions to it I can’t even consider today:

* I can’t talk, for instance, about our government’s support of anti-abortion and anti-birth-control policies that will guarantee that third world countries will never threaten us economically or militarily, and will instead become breeding tanks for desperate, cheap, illiterate labor.

* I can’t talk about the semi-alternative of adoption, and the fact that this becomes a strongly racial issue immediately as, in this country, it may be true that healthy white middle class babies are wanted for adoption, but not many Black babies, and not many babies from mothers addicted to Crack cocaine. Or the fact that pushing powerless women to carry a baby to term, then give it up for adoption is very close to turning poor women into breeding stock for more affluent people - and that’s an immoral proposition.

* And I can’t talk about the patriarchal agendas that lie behind both the conservative pro-lifers and the male-dominated Roman Catholic Church, where women have not, in twenty centuries, been able to become full people in their own right, and where forced breeding laws help keep them suppressed.

* Or the fact that while conservative churches talk as though abortion were murder, no church recognizes either an abortion or a miscarriage as the death of a human being that deserves a funeral or ritual blessings - as many heartbroken Catholic parents have learned in the most painful way. As far as I know, no religion in history has. So no matter what churches may say, the behavior of the churches looks like their abortion stance isn’t pro-life at all, but is primarily intended to keep women in their place as homemakers and breeders, controlled by the kind of men who have turned God into their hand puppet. It’s an offense to all honest religion.

You can think of many other important areas on this subject, any one of which could give rise to a dozen books and a hundred sermons, a bunch of parades and more than a few violent and bloody fights. But I will return to just the theological argument that sometimes God demands both birth control and abortions.

My model for this argument comes from the Roman Catholic Church, from a papal encyclical called Rerum Novarum, written by Pope Leo XIII in 1891. It has been updated by the church three times, in 1931, 1961, and 1991, to modernize the language and polish a few of the concepts.

As students of religion, political science, or labor movements will know, I have not picked an obscure papal encyclical. This is perhaps the most important thirty pages in the entire history of Christianity on the subject of religion’s relationship to laws that affect humans. This little document did more to change the social structures of the western world than the entire so-called “Social Gospel Movement” of which Protestant churches are so proud. It enabled changes in attitude that were absolutely fundamental, in getting both churches and governments to change child labor laws and help establish workers’ unions all over the world. And it did it because it was, at bottom, a theological argument of the first order, an argument about what human life is, and what it demands, or what God demands.

For nineteen centuries, the Roman Catholic Church had not cared about the fact that people at the bottom of the economic ladder have always been paid just enough to keep them alive. In fact, over and over again, the same passage from the Bible had been used to justify this state of affairs. It was the passage from Genesis, after Adam and Eve had been thrown out of the Garden of Eden, when God told Adam “by the sweat of your brow you shall live.” And so, the Church would repeat, life is hard, but that’s the way God planned it.

What Pope Leo XIII did in 1891 was to use the same Bible passage to justify the opposite position, and to lay the foundation for workers’ unions which the Church would support through its offices. Leo did it simply by emphasizing a different word in the sentence. “By the sweat of your brow,” he said, “you shall live!” And what, he asked, does it mean, “to live”? Does it mean merely to exist, to subsist at starvation level? Does it mean to live like lower animals do, or maybe like rats or cockroaches do? Are we promised, by this God of the Bible, only the absolute lowest possible quality of life? Is the mere quantity of life, the mere fact that we breathe all that religion offers? Is it, to keep it in the language of theism, all that God demands, the absolute minimum quality of life? Is it only about how many are alive, rather than how they are living? Is it like the story of the boy who loved hamsters - but without even bothering to feed them or give them a safe place to live?

No, said Pope Leo, it is not life like a lower animal which this God of the Bible demands for us. It is the life of a human being. And not the absolute minimal life of a human being, either. Pope Leo’s God demanded that our labors enable us to live fully, to realize the full potential of human beings. That means time for education, time for leisure, time for relaxation with friends and family, time not only to bear life like a burden, but as well to enjoy it, to live it, like free and empowered human beings.

Leo contrasted humans with lower animals, which he called “brutes.” Now hear this remarkable Pope’s words as he describes the “brute”:

The brute has no power of self-direction, but is governed by two chief instincts…. These instincts are self-preservation and the propagation of the species…. But with [humans] it is different indeed…. It is the mind, or the reason, which is the chief thing in us who are human beings; it is this which makes human beings human, and distinguishes them essentially and completely from the brute. (“Rerum Novarum,” in Seven Great Encyclicals, New York: Paulist Press, 1963, p. 3)

And what is the role of the Church in all of this? “Its desire is that the poor, for example, should rise above poverty and wretchedness, and should better their condition in life; and for this it strives,” wrote this Pope. (p. 14) And if conditions existed which robbed humans of the possibility of living like humans rather than brutes, if people found themselves in

“conditions that were repugnant to their dignity as human beings… if health were endangered by excessive labor, or by work unsuited to sex or age–in these cases there can be no question that within certain limits, it would be right to call in the help and authority of the law [to do what] is required for the remedy of the evil or the removal of the danger.”

And why? Why must the Church and the law do these things? Because God demands it! Demands it, because humans must be given living conditions which allow them to develop fully to the limits of their potential as educated, intelligent, creative, and joyful people. It is for that they were created, and conditions which make that impossible are not merely wrong, they are evil.

Each creature must be allowed to live to the fullest extent possible for that kind of creature, and you can get a dependable idea of what is possible for it by looking at what it has done under ideal conditions. And when you have understood the fullest potential of a species, you have understood what, in theological terms, is God’s will for it. Then, when conditions within our control keep a person from ever growing into their full potential, then the Church, and all people with religious sensitivities, must try to remove those conditions. And why? Because God demands it. I have mixed ordinary language and theological language here, but I will trust that you can understand what I’m saying.

This essay, written 117 years ago, changed the position of the Church, a position which it had held and enforced for nineteen centuries. Even traditions which have existed since the beginning of the religion can be changed, as our understanding of the fullest potential of life is expanded. In other words, the fact that things have always been done a certain way is not necessarily an argument for continuing to do them that way. And now we can bring this full circle.

Times have changed. The population of the world has increased almost exponentially since 1891, even moreso since the era when the Bible was written. The deadly effect of overpopulation and under-education on the possibility of living like human beings has never existed the way it does today. The pressures on single mothers and working families without the support of large extended families or social support has never been this consistently brutal. Neither the religious scriptures of the West nor established theological traditions have yet had to address this changed situation.

But now they do. And both the fact and the threat of more births and of more human beings is now among the chief conditions that make it impossible for many, many people - both mothers and children - ever to have the chance of living like empowered, cherished human beings. They will be driven instead, as Pope Leo said of the “brutes”, by only two instincts: self-preservation, and more breeding.

Would you like to see what it looks like when human beings live only like animals, driven only by self-preservation and propagation of the species? Go to Mexico City. Or Chicago. Or Detroit. Or New York City. Go to the ghettos, the slums, the shantytowns of the world, and you will see the evil conditions, and the results of those evil conditions.

Do you want to see it up close, one-on-one? Look at teen-aged girls pregnant with their second or third child, trapped in a system from which most will never escape. Nor are there are many kinds of employment open to many of these women. With grade-school educations, what are they to do? They can be prostitutes and their boyfriends can be pimps, drug pushers and drug takers, or exploited laborers living at the edge of starvation and kept there by a system which can demand from them what it chooses and give them no more than it must.

The Church’s desire, wrote Pope Leo, “is that the poor … should rise above poverty and wretchedness, and should better their condition in life; and for this it strives.” And further, if conditions arise “that [are] repugnant to their dignity as human beings… if health were endangered by excessive labor, or by work unsuited to sex or age–in these cases there can be no question that within certain limits, it would be right to call in the help and authority of the law [to do what] is required for the remedy of the evil or the removal of the danger.”

By the very reasoning which the Roman Catholic Church itself has used in its most famous and powerful document for social change, the grotesque overpopulation in many parts of the world is an evil which must be opposed because it is anti-life and unholy. It is destroying even the possibility that these people will ever rise above the level of the “brutes” and become human beings.

And this applies first to the people we already have, not those who aren’t yet born. If we can’t cherish and empower the most fragile people we have - and so often that means teen-aged girls and single mothers - then we have no more right than the boy who said he loved hamsters to bring any more lives into a world we have failed or refused to make safe and humane for them.

It is perhaps the first time in history that those who want to defend their position as religious must begin to recognize that both birth control and abortion are not the enemies of religion, but are instead friends. Birth control is not just an economic necessity today, but a religious one, as well. God demands it, because people cannot live like human beings in the squalor of the slums and shantytowns in which they will forever be defined, like brutes, by the basic animal instincts of self-preservation and breeding - and, of course, economic exploitation.

The world doesn’t need more people; it’s already badly overcrowded. We have doubled the population of the world in less than forty years, which is close to breeding like hamsters. But breeding isn’t a high calling. Anything can breed. The higher calling is asking whether we can be proper stewards of the life we would bring forth. If we can’t, it is wrong to let our higher calling be smothered by the fertile productions of the much lower calling of merely breeding. We are meant for more than that, and are urged - commanded - not to settle for less.

That boy did not love hamsters. He only loved the idea of hamsters, and the idea of owning hamsters. He didn’t love real hamsters, because you don’t put creatures you love into miserable, crowded, filthy ghettos that keep them your captives until they die. That’s selfish abuse, not grown-up love. Love demands that we stop bringing forth so much life that we can’t cherish and empower our offspring. This is true both for woman and for societies, and needs to shape our societal laws about sex education, birth control and abortion.

And when sex education doesn’t exist, when birth control fails, and the only hope left for a woman, a family, a ghetto, a city, or a world is an abortion, when an abortion is the only means left of removing a condition which threatens to return this human or these humans to the level of mere brutes, then the church, the state, and all who are really pro-life must, by God, not only condone those abortions, but help the people to get them, safely and easily. God demands it.

Posted by: LadyLuck at April 7, 2008 11:43 AM


P.S.

In early pregnancy, doctors preform vaginal ultrasounds. That means that they insert a device into the vagina. To keep it sterile it is common that doctors cover the device with a lubed condom. (think of the plastic sheaths you can put over thermometer heads) Once taken off they look very much like the condoms were used for sex. (once again, it is unrolled, lubed and inserted into the vagina, just instead of a penis its a medical probe)


I may be wrong but when reading that this was the first thing that came to mind. So, the "used condoms" might just be more discarded medical waste.

Posted by: LadyLuck at April 7, 2008 11:52 AM


Thank you for taking the time to post this. My hope is that the more malpractice (and this is malpractice SQUARED if you asked me), the less people will be able to excuse abortion as a "safe, healthy medical procedure". That lie needs to be done away with so that we can deal more and more with the fact that abortion is MURDER.

Look at those tiny, perfectly-formed hands, those precious tiny bodies, and tell me that the mother's convenience is worth more than the blood all over those babies.

Posted by: Lauren at April 10, 2008 2:26 PM


Please allow me to clarify what I previously said. I left out an important word in one of my sentences. I meant to say that the "more malpractice WE EXPOSE" - I am afraid I made it sound like I meant the more malpractice there is. Forgive me!

Posted by: Lauren at April 10, 2008 2:28 PM


Don't blame the Doctor, blame the ignorant irresponsible people that patronize his "business"

safe sex, no sex, wtf????

Posted by: just wondering at June 6, 2008 12:17 AM


Just seeing the aborted little babies made me start
bawling. How can anyone do this or support it>
\I'm just sick and to think Obama supports letting
little babies die because they were aborted and
struggled to live a few hours. This is truly
more than our nation can support any longer

Posted by: alli at June 30, 2008 1:02 PM


Just seeing the aborted little babies made me start
bawling. How can anyone do this or support it>
\I'm just sick and to think Obama supports letting
little babies die because they were aborted and
struggled to live a few hours. This is truly
more than our nation can support any longer

Posted by: Anonymous at June 30, 2008 1:03 PM