That is SO right!

Those big homos will have homo sex, then they'll have big homo babies, then their big homo babies will have homo babies, and soon everyone in America will be a big homo!

Laura,

That's disgusting!! Not surprised.

Do you believe that children should have been exposed to this? Didn't it bother you to see kids viewing this crap? Do you believe that these sexual acts should be done in public and celebrated? Wow there's progress for you, women on leashes.

All those who engaged in those public lewed sexual acts should have been arrested. They would have if they lived anywhere else but SF. Welcome to San Francisco values!

Colmes is majorly annoying.

That video - especially knowing that the police are involved in recruiting this type of thing as well- is VERY disturbing....

Laura, do you have anything constructive to say? Want to actually tackle the points that Jill made, or at the very least, respond to the disgusting and shocking things that were mentioned in the video?

It just kills me that pro-lifers are harassed by some police officers on a daily basis, and this type of disgusting public display is celebrated.

Oh, we are so in the last days!!!

That's so true AB Laura. Why are prolifers harassed when stuff like this is allowed to continue unfettered? Some may say that it is because of pl violence. Isn't this event promoting sexual violence? And no pc'ers, this isn't the same as our abortion pictures. The equivalent would be someone committing abortions on the public street.

Geez, guys. It's San Fransisco, what do you expect? If they had this festival in SF, they probably would not have had it in major commercial area (such as Market Street) where most children would likely be. Furthermore, as most parties and fairs in SF (including Castro, their big Halloween street party), there are TONS of policemen on the surrounding the area with big signs that say "FOLSOM STREET FAIR", so it'd be hard to wander in.

And hey, if you like kinky stuff like that, all the more power to you. It's not degrading or a step back if the women and men involved are educated (not brainwashed) and still enjoy it.

AB Laura,

Hi there! How are you doing?

You're right. As we continue towards the end, Scripture tells us this kind of stuff will become the "norm". It will be celebrated and held up as good and moral behavior. So we shouldn't be that surprised. And those of us who will not accept it, will be persecuted, prosecuted, called intolerent and haters, and harassed. It's just the reality.

There are pastors on trial in this country for hate speech bc they say that abortion and homosexuality is wrong. We have the police in Aurora telling us we are not allowed to pray or read our Bibles in public. There are pastors sentenced to jail terms or heavily fined in Canada, Scandinavia and Europe for the same thing. It's just the beginning.

Not to mention the fact that their sexcapades spread AIDS. Whereby, down the line, innocent victims are inflicted with it.

I totally agree with Jill that abortion activists and homo activists are related. Neither gives a crap about the innocent victims of the consequences of their acts. Both are living by the "if it feels good, do it" standard. Neither worries about what happens "tomorrow"..both are just living for today and what makes them "feel good" for the moment.

And who cares if they make fun of Christians...if you guys are allowed to spread lies and hate about their lifestyle, then they're entitled to poking some fun.

And Jill, this is a GIGANTIC leap to connect it to abortion, even for you. Kinky sex has been around for much longer than abortion.

Oh, PUHLEEEEZE...

Yesterday Elizabeth said that she covers her child's eyes when the "truth truck" shows up.

You guys LOVE to display images that even YOU agree are inappropriate for children.
Why should others be held to standard that you don't bother to meet?

I am not against this because it displays and/or promotes homosexuality. I don't think that people should have orgies in public. I find it strange that prolifers saying the rosary are thought to be a threat to the public,but people walking around with whips having public oral sex aren't.

Both are living by the "if it feels good, do it" standard. Neither worries about what happens "tomorrow"..both are just living for today and what makes them "feel good" for the moment.

Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 10:46 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's always worked for me.

Oh, I don't think you mentioned that they donated over $300,000 to charity for this event. That's really cool.

It doesn't seem like such a big deal to me, but I guess that comes from being a Berkeley student. Maybe I'll go next year and see what the fuss is all about.

Oh Puhleeeeeze Laura, prolifers aren't committing abortions on a public street. They are showing pictures of the aftermath. The equivalent would be someone showing a picture of the aftermath of sex, i.e. a baby or a frustrated looking woman.:)

Carrie,

I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if Laura would have a propblem with a woman having an abortion in public.

And Jill, this is a GIGANTIC leap to connect it to abortion, even for you. Kinky sex has been around for much longer than abortion.

One giant leap for Jill.... Neil Armstrong, where are you today?

Abortion has been known, desired, and practiced for thousands and thousands of years, so that makes kinky sex pretty old indeed.

That's it....I'm going next year to the fair and I'm holding up pictures of the dying, lifeless bodies of AIDS infested homosexuals.

Funny, considering that HIV is mostly a heterosexual - not to mention Christian - disease.

Jill, you need to relax. Obviously the Constitution protects such acts on public streets: what do you think Thomas Jefferson had in mind? Protecting human life? Bah!

;)

"Abortion has been known, desired, and practiced for thousands and thousands of years, so that makes kinky sex pretty old indeed."

Kama Sutra? =P

I thought it was. Is it not?

Funny, considering that HIV is mostly a heterosexual - not to mention Christian - disease.

Posted by: Laura at December 6, 2007 11:26 AM

---------------------------

Whatever you want to think!

Funny, considering that HIV is mostly a heterosexual - not to mention Christian - disease.

Posted by: Laura at December 6, 2007 11:26 AM

-------------------------------
I think it's time you get re-educated. Site sources please!

It started in the male gay community. Actually before the early 1980's no one knew what it was. The first cases of Aids in the US were in NY and San Francisco in the early 1980s.

Did you know that Aids is found in Monkeys and Chimps?

It was not until recently, a heterosexual disease and it is not a Christian disease (whatever that means).

You don't have a clue.

The vast majority of the HIV cases on this planet are spread by heterosexual contact, and Christian countries have between 10x to 100x the number of cases.
Here's a little report from a Christian website. (Apparently God loves Muslims more. They hardly ever get HIV):

http://www.martinrothonline.com/MRCC11.htm

Honestly, to compare the tolerence of this event to the problems pro-life protestors have encountered in Aurora, Illinois is pretty silly.

Everyone knows that areas like SF are much more open minded about all kinds of lifestyles and their events. I'm sure a group of pro-life extremests could pray rosaries, thump bibles and wave gruesome signs all day in San Francisco and no one would bat an eye.

I think I may have to move to San Fran. Commence Bible thumping...

Carrie,
Hopefully the "big one" will hit SF, and you won't have to worry about that!

And Jill, this is a GIGANTIC leap to connect it to abortion, even for you. Kinky sex has been around for much longer than abortion.

One giant leap for Jill.... Neil Armstrong, where are you today?

Abortion has been known, desired, and practiced for thousands and thousands of years, so that makes kinky sex pretty old indeed.

Posted by: Doug at December 6, 2007 11:11 AM
...........................................

What Doug said.

Carrie,
Hopefully the "big one" will hit SF, and you won't have to worry about that!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 12:57 PM
.....................................................

Feeling blood thirsty today? I could have sworn that wishing harm to others was a big Christian no no.

Aren't there other groups that use "graphic" pictures? I seem to remember seeing some very graphic pictures in driver's ed. I think the name of the film was Death on the Highway. I believe anti-tobacco activists use graphic pictures too. Activists who speak-out against violence towards homosexuals show pictures of what happened to Matthew Shepard(I support these activists in their use of graphic pictures by the way).

No, Sally..you misunderstood me....I just wanted SF to be hit with the "big one"...no harm, of course, to anyone..just the city!

"No, Sally..you misunderstood me....I just wanted SF to be hit with the "big one"...no harm, of course, to anyone..just the city!"

So are you hoping that when the "big one" hits the whole city will be empty then?

JM,
If SF is the "anything goes" capital of the US, and the city is destroyed by the "big one", then yes, I do hope the city is empty and is never rebuilt again.
That being said, I'm sure everyone will be just fine. They have been preparing for the "big one" for a while now, they have been warned that it could happen at any time. So, I'm sure if anyone is injured, they would be fine with it. Otherwise, they would have moved out of there a long time ago.

I actually think the "big one" is more likely to hit LA rather than SF.

"they have been warned that it could happen at any time. So, I'm sure if anyone is injured, they would be fine with it."

This is coming out of a christians mouth?

I have been warned that when i cross the street I could get hit by a car if I am not careful. If i get injuryed i guess i should "be okay with it"

I have been warned that while driving I could end up in an accident. So if i get hurt I should "be okay with it"

I have been told that walking around I may be mugged. So if i happens "i should be okay with it"

I suppose next you are going to tell me that everyone who was hit by the hurricane in NO "should be okay with it" because they knew they could be hit by an hurricane.

Where do you come up with your logic anyway

Where do you come up with your logic anyway

Posted by: JM at December 6, 2007 2:37 PM

---------------------

I do wish you knew.

WooHoo...oceanfront property in Colorado!

No, Sally..you misunderstood me....I just wanted SF to be hit with the "big one"...no harm, of course, to anyone..just the city!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 1:47 PM
...........................................

Sure Laura! Like it's the buildings you have a problem with. I understand you perfectly.

Hopefully the "big one" will hit SF, and you won't have to worry about that!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 12:57 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chorus:
And they'll know we are Christians
By our love, by our love,
Yes they'll know we are Christians by our love.

Sure Laura! Like it's the buildings you have a problem with. I understand you perfectly.

Posted by: Sally at December 6, 2007 2:56 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

She really hates the big homo buildings.

JM,
If SF is the "anything goes" capital of the US, and the city is destroyed by the "big one", then yes, I do hope the city is empty and is never rebuilt again.
That being said, I'm sure everyone will be just fine. They have been preparing for the "big one" for a while now, they have been warned that it could happen at any time. So, I'm sure if anyone is injured, they would be fine with it. Otherwise, they would have moved out of there a long time ago.
Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 2:24 PM
......................................

There is no preparing for an earthquake. Live in Illinois Laura? Illinois is prone to earthquakes so strong that the Mississippi can flow backwards. Floods, mudslides and tsunamis are caused by earthquakes. You are being silly if you fantasize that an earthquake would destroy one empty (@@) city and no one would be harmed.

Sure Laura! Like it's the buildings you have a problem with. I understand you perfectly.

Posted by: Sally at December 6, 2007 2:56 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

She really hates the big homo buildings.

Posted by: Laura at December 6, 2007 3:00 PM
................................

Oh I see! Victorian architecture is the 'cause' of homosexuality.

Oh I see! Victorian architecture is the 'cause' of homosexuality.

Posted by: Sally at December 6, 2007 3:08 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, that and going on the "Ellen" show. Once you've been on the "Ellen" show you instantly become a big homo.

Laura & Sally,

So what exactly are you trying to say about me?

BTW, I'm actually a big fan of Ellen's comedy...I love her sense of humor.

Oh I see! Victorian architecture is the 'cause' of homosexuality.

Posted by: Sally at December 6, 2007 3:08 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, that and going on the "Ellen" show. Once you've been on the "Ellen" show you instantly become a big homo.
Posted by: Laura at December 6, 2007 3:15 PM

------------------------------------------------

And when you watch the show you're half a homo, which is jus like being a real homo.

Doug and/or Sally,

Now I'm curious. What came first, kinky sex or abortion? I would have thought it was the kinky sex.

Doug and/or Sally,

Now I'm curious. What came first, kinky sex or abortion? I would have thought it was the kinky sex.

Posted by: Stephanie at December 6, 2007 3:33 PM
.......................................................
According to some, all sex is kinky.

Laura & Sally,

So what exactly are you trying to say about me?

BTW, I'm actually a big fan of Ellen's comedy...I love her sense of humor.

Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 3:19 PM
..............................................................

Laura, your comments speak for themselves. Admit it! You've been devil possessed. Wishing harm on others. Tsk tsk tsk.

Carrie,
Hopefully the "big one" will hit SF, and you won't have to worry about that!

It's un-Christianlike comments like that one that make me cringe. No wonder Christians/Pro-Lifers get such a bad rap!

no Sally, totally wrong about me. My comments may speak to you in a much different way than what I wrote, but that's your problem, not mine!
You gotta tell those little guys that run around in your head to just shut up!

Samantha,
How, exactly, is that comment un-Christianlike?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by wishing the "big one" to happen in San Francisco mean that you wish that an entire city would be destroyed? Even if, as you later claim, no one would be killed and those who might get hurt would be "ok with it," isn't it wrong to wish that thousands of people lose their homes and possesions? What about their children? What about those who live there who aren't gay? They all deserve to suffer because of the lifestyle others who live in the same city as them?

Do you live in Illinois? If your home were to be destroyed by a tornado this Spring, and you and your family were inside and hurt, would it be ok because you knew that tornados occur in Illinois?

How can someone who calls themself a Christian wish that kind of harm and suffering on another person?? I guess I don't understand.

"Posted by: Anonymous at December 6, 2007 4:16 PM"

High five! Very well said.

The above comment was from me.

Well Samantha, very nicely said! Good Job. I am curious to see the response, if there is one.

no Sally, totally wrong about me. My comments may speak to you in a much different way than what I wrote, but that's your problem, not mine!
You gotta tell those little guys that run around in your head to just shut up!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 4:02 PM
........................................

It's very unChristian of you to not take responsibility for the things you say Laura. Even pretending that you only meant for the destruction of the property belonging to others is un Christ like. You must confess your sin to be healed Laura. But only if you believe in such things of course. : )

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by wishing the "big one" to happen in San Francisco mean that you wish that an entire city would be destroyed? Even if, as you later claim, no one would be killed and those who might get hurt would be "ok with it," isn't it wrong to wish that thousands of people lose their homes and possesions? What about their children? What about those who live there who aren't gay? They all deserve to suffer because of the lifestyle others who live in the same city as them?

Do you live in Illinois? If your home were to be destroyed by a tornado this Spring, and you and your family were inside and hurt, would it be ok because you knew that tornados occur in Illinois?

How can someone who calls themself a Christian wish that kind of harm and suffering on another person?? I guess I don't understand.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 6, 2007 4:16 PM
...................................

Illinois isn't immune to earthquakes either. The New Madrid quake was a biggy.

Because, Samantha, I NEVER said I wanted people harmed in any way. Yes, I do realize that my fantasy about a city destroyed with no injuries is what it is....a fantasy. I would like the city that condones everything immoral to not be here, and I make no apologies for that.

Obviously, you know absolutely nothing about Christians, other than they are easily mocked by people like you. I NEVER claimed to be perfect, and if my thinking on this subject is incorrect in God's eyes, He will correct my thinking. I really could care less about the way you or any other's think of me or what I think.

Illinois isn't immune to earthquakes either. The New Madrid quake was a biggy.

I've heard that, too. I think that tornados are more common, at least in our lifetime. Thank goodness!

I would like the city that condones everything immoral to not be here, and I make no apologies for that.

Even if the entire city were to be magically wiped off the face of the earth, with no injuries or deaths, those people, with their values, would still exist. I don't get the point.

Illinois isn't immune to earthquakes either. The New Madrid quake was a biggy.

I've heard that, too. I think that tornados are more common, at least in our lifetime. Thank goodness!

I would like the city that condones everything immoral to not be here, and I make no apologies for that.

Even if the entire city were to be magically wiped off the face of the earth, with no injuries or deaths, those people, with their values, would still exist. I don't get the point.

"He will correct my thinking."

Will he though? Doesn't he give you "free will" where you can think and do anything you want?

Know nothing about Christians? The christans I know would never wish the destruction of a city.

You know theres a lot of gang violence and murder in Illinois. I hope it gets hit with a tornado and destroys the city. I don't care how many innocence homes are destroyed or anything because "i don't like gang violence and if that city is destroyed it will go away" And if someone does get hurt, it shouldn't matter, they know there could be tornadoes there. See how ridiculous that sounds! (this is not how I think... this is a comment similar to what AB Laura has said)

Oh, I don't think you mentioned that they donated over $300,000 to charity for this event. That's really cool.

Posted by: Stephanie at December 6, 2007 10:56 AM

Which charities received funds?

"Even if the entire city were to be magically wiped off the face of the earth, with no injuries or deaths, those people, with their values, would still exist."

Yeah and I hope they move in right next door to AB Laura.

Not to mention AB Laura that homosexuals are everywhere. Yes my dear even in your precious little town. Probably in your precious little church too.

Hopefully the "big one" will hit SF, and you won't have to worry about that!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Honey, the buildings aren't gay, some of the people are. You wanted the PEOPLE destroyed.

Typical pro-lifer. "The right to life begins at conception and ends at birth."

Laura,

you wrote,

Funny, considering that HIV is mostly a heterosexual - not to mention Christian - disease.

Posted by: Laura at December 6, 2007 11:26 AM

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/ah/ah.shtml

.....
Approximately 1 in 70 New Yorkers is infected with HIV...

1 in 40 African Americans.
1 in 25 men living in Manhattan.
1 in 12 black men age 40-49 years.
1 in 10 men who have sex with men.
1 in 8 injection drug users.
1 in 5 black men age 40-49 in Manhattan.
1 in 4 men who have sex with men in Chelsea.

It seems HIV is more prevalent among homosexual males in New York which is in the US. Still like any STI, it is transmitted by sexual contact among multiple partners.

Illinois isn't immune to earthquakes either. The New Madrid quake was a biggy.

I've heard that, too. I think that tornados are more common, at least in our lifetime. Thank goodness!

I would like the city that condones everything immoral to not be here, and I make no apologies for that.

Even if the entire city were to be magically wiped off the face of the earth, with no injuries or deaths, those people, with their values, would still exist. I don't get the point.

Posted by: samantha at December 6, 2007 4:32 PM
..................................................................

Having grown up in Illinois I remember one quake in the late 60s or early 70s. But we got hit by a tornado just as school was letting out. It took out a couple of school buses in Belvidere and killed a lot of kids. I had nightmares for years.

"Having grown up in Illinois I remember one quake in the late 60s or early 70s. But we got hit by a tornado just as school was letting out. It took out a couple of school buses in Belvidere and killed a lot of kids. I had nightmares for years."

But Sally you know that Illinois could get hit with tornadoes... so "they would be fine with it"
(again not really me talking this is what AB Laura said about SF and Earthquakes)

What I meant to say was "you should be fine with it" Right Laura?

JM,
I'm not really too concerned about my mortal body, so yes, I'd be ok with it. I'd be in Heaven, with God, and have no memory of anything bad. I'm more concerned about my soul, and pray for other's (including the folks in SF)...are you concerned about yours?

Because, Samantha, I NEVER said I wanted people harmed in any way. Yes, I do realize that my fantasy about a city destroyed with no injuries is what it is....a fantasy. I would like the city that condones everything immoral to not be here, and I make no apologies for that.

Obviously, you know absolutely nothing about Christians, other than they are easily mocked by people like you. I NEVER claimed to be perfect, and if my thinking on this subject is incorrect in God's eyes, He will correct my thinking. I really could care less about the way you or any other's think of me or what I think.

Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 4:25 PM
...........................................

Your comment makes a mockery of Christianity. Clearly you do not know your professed faith. Perhaps you'd do better to leave your faith out of the subject matter until you understand it better.
Interesting that none of the supposed Christians on this blog have taken you to task for your evil remark. Funny how they spend enormous amounts of energy judging until it comes to a weakness in one of their own.

"are you concerned about yours?"

Nope

found those charities

Additionally, the sponsors of the Folsom Street Fair make direct contributions to many of our most important local charities. Last year more than $300,000 was donated to local non-profits.

Here are the designated beneficiaries for 2007:

AIDS Emergency Fund
Berkeley Free Clinic
Black Rock Arts Foundation
Dolores Street Community Services
Frameline
GLBT Historical Society
Healing Waters
Lyon-Martin Health Services
Pets Are Wonderful Support (PAWS)
Positive Resource Center
San Francisco Gay Men�s Chorus
STOP AIDS Project
Tenderloin Health
The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence
Transgender Law Center
Triangle Martial Arts Association

link to charities list

http://samspadesf.blogspot.com/2007/09/folsom-street-fair-brings-leather-folks.html

"Having grown up in Illinois I remember one quake in the late 60s or early 70s. But we got hit by a tornado just as school was letting out. It took out a couple of school buses in Belvidere and killed a lot of kids. I had nightmares for years."

But Sally you know that Illinois could get hit with tornadoes... so "they would be fine with it"
(again not really me talking this is what AB Laura said about SF and Earthquakes)

Posted by: JM at December 6, 2007 4:49 PM
...................................................

I know what you are saying. There really is no 'safe' place to live on the planet. Tornados, cylclones, hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, mudslides, volcanoes, asteroids, satelites and airplanes falling out of the sky in addition to earthquakes. Wonder where Laura will move to in order to avoid asking to die in a disaster?

Sally,
I grew up in tornado alley too in MN. Only have had warnings. A town near me got hit. My dad worked in that town. It hit him pretty hard and he was really upset about it. Parts of the town were destroyed.

Sally,
I grew up in tornado alley too in MN. Only have had warnings. A town near me got hit. My dad worked in that town. It hit him pretty hard and he was really upset about it. Parts of the town were destroyed.

Posted by: JM at December 6, 2007 5:05 PM
...................................................

Can't blame him! They are terrifying! It rained so hard you couldn't see your hand stretched out in front of you. The neighbor lady picked us up and I don't know how she got us the two blocks home. She had to have driven on instinct. We dove for the basement.
Afterwards we learned that a F4 had hit and overturned 12 school buses in nearby Belvidere. 24 people were killed. There were 2 more F4s in northern Illinois that day killing 34 more people.

The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence
Transgender Law Center
Triangle Martial Arts Association

Oh yes, worthy, worthy causes.

As to no pro lifers comment on AB Laura...

She made a joke. Ha Ha. You guys have turned it into a huge deal. If I believed that she really wanted thousands of people dead I would have been the first one to jump on her.

AB Laura,

If you really want thousands of people homeless, dead or injured, don't. It's not nice.

If on the other hand you were simply being sarcastic to make a point...I reiterate, woo hoo ocean front property in Colorado!

Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are men that dress as nuns and cause disruptions to the Catholic Mass. What's charitable about that?

MK, you forgot. Prolifers aren't allowed to make jokes. We also aren't allowed to participate in prolife activities until we save the world first.

If on the other hand you were simply being sarcastic to make a point...I reiterate, woo hoo ocean front property in Colorado!-mk

So what was the point? If anything, comments like that just perpetuate the stereotype that pro-lifers are hateful and violent. That's really not what we want, is it?

The people at Folsom Street Fair could rent a ballroom and have all the sex they want in privacy. It is considered sexual abuse for adults to have sex infront of children by the way. There are children at the Fair. The money they give to charity doesn't mitigate all the damage their activities do. Note that I am not just referring to gay sex. I am also referring to heterosexual sex infront of children.

the point was that sometimes enough is enough. And even though she didn't really want San Francisco to disappear, she wishes the problems and mindset would.

So do I.

I'd also love oceanfront property in Colorado.

Hmmm, I sometimes wish all the lovely customers I encounter at my seasonal retail job would disappear. That doesn't mean that I wish they were dead.

Sally,

We had a really bad wind storm once. Hundreds of trees were uprooted. That night was pretty scary. I was probably in 6th grade.

My parents town and the towns around it just had a pretty bad flood back in September. A few people died, lots of homes ruined. Luckily my parents were fine.

Hmmm, I sometimes wish all the lovely customers I encounter at my seasonal retail job would disappear. That doesn't mean that I wish they were dead.

Posted by: Carrie at December 6, 2007 6:23 PM
.......................................................

That's hardly the same as wishing a disaster to befall them now is it?

Sally, do you honestly think AB Laura wishes that?

The people at Folsom Street Fair could rent a ballroom and have all the sex they want in privacy. It is considered sexual abuse for adults to have sex infront of children by the way. There are children at the Fair. The money they give to charity doesn't mitigate all the damage their activities do. Note that I am not just referring to gay sex. I am also referring to heterosexual sex infront of children.

Posted by: Carrie at December 6, 2007 6:16 PM
.......................................................

You might want to take your issues up with the parents that brought their children to an adult event.

The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence
Transgender Law Center
Triangle Martial Arts Association

Oh yes, worthy, worthy causes.

As to no pro lifers comment on AB Laura...

She made a joke. Ha Ha. You guys have turned it into a huge deal. If I believed that she really wanted thousands of people dead I would have been the first one to jump on her.

AB Laura,

If you really want thousands of people homeless, dead or injured, don't. It's not nice.

If on the other hand you were simply being sarcastic to make a point...I reiterate, woo hoo ocean front property in Colorado!

Posted by: mk at December 6, 2007 5:59 PM
.........................................

I was brought up Christian mk. Even joking about wishing a disaster upon anyone was the equivalent of cursing them and a sin. Has Christianity changed?
mk I think that having the ocean lapping up against the Rockies would destroy the eco system and beauty of Colorado. I know, I know. Details details! ; )

Sally, I would if I could. Seeing as I don't know them the possibility that I might be able to seems remote. I just thought I would point out the child sexual abuse going on at that event to the people defending the fair. I think if people really thought about it, then they would see the wrong that goes on there.

Sally, do you honestly think AB Laura wishes that?

Posted by: Carrie at December 6, 2007 7:22 PM
............................................................

I think that Laura was attempting to sound righteous and pronounce a Sodom and Gomorrah like pronouncement upon the city to impress the Christians on this blog with her level of outrage.
I like Laura and just wish that she would think more deeply about the things she thinks and says.

I've said many times abortion activists and homosexual activists are closely related.

Funny, I've said many times that pro-life advocacy and pro-gay-rights advocacy are closely related. Both are for recognizing the humanity and rights of a group of human beings who have been considered inferior, feared, and sometimes even targeted for violence.

Sally, I would if I could. Seeing as I don't know them the possibility that I might be able to seems remote. I just thought I would point out the child sexual abuse going on at that event to the people defending the fair. I think if people really thought about it, then they would see the wrong that goes on there.

Posted by: Carrie at December 6, 2007 7:31 PM
...............................................................................

If you are truly concerned about the children that may have been there, I think you should contact the proper local authorities and at least question them about the situation.
If you are concerned with the city allowing public displays of sexual acts, become a member of the community and make your voice heard and your vote count.

I've said many times abortion activists and homosexual activists are closely related.

Funny, I've said many times that pro-life advocacy and pro-gay-rights advocacy are closely related. Both are for recognizing the humanity and rights of a group of human beings who have been considered inferior, feared, and sometimes even targeted for violence.

Posted by: Jen R at December 6, 2007 7:51 PM
...............................................

Funny, I've said many times that no matter where you go, there you are.

Sally, I don't live in San Fran. I do think you have a good point. I will make some phone calls and write some emails and see if I can do something about it. I don't think they will listen to someone from out-of-state, but I will try my best. I am on it!

Finally, Sally, something we can all agree on!

Contrast these two views. Try if you can to look not at who says it but at the opinions themselves.

______________________________________________________

later felt pulled into political life, he said. �The purpose for being on earth is not our personal comfort but to strive to make the world better for our children,� he wrote.

________________________________________________________

Both are living by the "if it feels good, do it" standard. Neither worries about what happens "tomorrow"..both are just living for today and what makes them "feel good" for the moment.

Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 10:46 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's always worked for me.

Posted by: Laura at December 6, 2007 10:55 AM

I just got home & was reading some more comments, and I must say that it never ceases to amaze me at how atheists, agnostics, and whatever you choose to call yourselves, always seem to have the notion on how a Christian should act, talk and think. Wow! For not being believers, you guys sure know alot about God and His followers! Which, of course, leads me to believe that you DO have some type of concept of God, or you wouldn't speak of Him so much.

Sally says that she was raised Christian. Sally, if you were a true Christian, you would have repented for your sins and accepted Jesus Christ as you Savior. You would have believed that He died for your sins, and rose again. If, what you say is true, that you were a Christian, and did this, then I have GREAT news for you....you still are a Christian..you would just be in the "testing of faith" phase (which could last many years for some!) You can't be "booted out" of the family of God once you accept Jesus! Unless, of course, you did not accept Jesus Christ as you Savior and believed that He died for your sins, and rose again. Then, my dear, you were not a Christian in any sense of the word, and you really should not decieve people by saying that you were a Christian at one time.

I also believe that NOTHING happens without God ALLOWING it to happen. I love God, and I cannot STAND anyone mocking my God. I know deep down in my heart that He cannot stand things that happen in cities like SF. God's wrath is near..the Church Age, Age of God's Grace, is drawing to a close. God's wrath will be upon this earth soon. I can only pray for those you haven't accepted Him...I also pity those who have not accepted Him. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a mystery in America. People DO know about Him, they just choose not to accept Him. So when cities like SF push the buttons of Christians (true Christians), mock my God and others are led to it's wicked, deceitful ways, I would not loose one ounce of sleep when that city is destroyed..by God. The true believers that are there, "the innocents", know that their bodies are mortal, and that their souls are immortal. And trust me...true believers know the wrath of God and what that city and many others will endure after the Rapture of the Church. I also believe that NOLA was a wonderful testament of the truth of God. It showed the power of God, God's authority over man, God's love for His people, and what the chaos will be like, worldwide, after the Rapture of the Church...lawlessness. We witnessed it first hand. I saw it as "the big picure" testament. I believe that the people that lost thier lives were either given the chance to know God before they died, or already did. Whether or not they accepted Him, only them & God know. I know that God is a loving, fair and just God. NOTHING happens without God allowing it to. I cried for the people, I prayed for the people and I praised God for His testimony to ALL people. I pray for ALL who do not know God. I pray every time I hear an ambulance, see a sad story on the news, see someone in pain, hear someone say they don't believe in God. I pray all of the time for all types of people.

So, what you atheists, agonstics, and all others who don't believe in God that way that I do think of ME...I really DON'T CARE! I only pray that you think and believe about God in the way that He would be delighted for you to do.

I am sincerely praying for each and every one of you!

So, you actually wouldn't mind if people were in SF when "The Big One" hits. Thanks for clearing that up.

And the deaths of over a thousand people in New Orleans were an example of God's love.

I'm not qualified to say whether those are "Christian" attitudes or not. It's enough for me to say that I find them horrifyingly anti-human.

"So, you actually wouldn't mind if people were in SF when "The Big One" hits. Thanks for clearing that up."
---------
No, I said I wouldn't lose any sleep. I also said I would pray for them, and cry for them.

"And the deaths of over a thousand people in New Orleans were an example of God's love."

------------
No, read it again...I said, "was a wonderful testament of the TRUTH of God. It showed the POWER of God, God's AUTHORITY over man, God's LOVE for His people, and what the CHAOS will be like, worldwide, AFTER the Rapture of the Church...LAWLESSNESS.

"I'm not qualified to say whether those are "Christian" attitudes or not."

---------------
Thank you. I truly respect that statement.

"It's enough for me to say that I find them horrifyingly anti-human."

---------

I am truly sorry that you feel that way. If you came to know Jesus Christ, you would realize that "human" doesn't mean much, other than we are flawed and helpless without God.

Rest assured that you are in my prayers!

Sally, I don't live in San Fran. I do think you have a good point. I will make some phone calls and write some emails and see if I can do something about it. I don't think they will listen to someone from out-of-state, but I will try my best. I am on it!

Posted by: Carrie at December 6, 2007 8:12 PM
...............................................

You go girl! I'd be very interested in any response you may receive. Will you share when you do?

AB Laura,

"If, what you say is true, that you were a Christian, and did this, then I have GREAT news for you....you still are a Christian..you would just be in the "testing of faith" phase (which could last many years for some!)"

I simply must respond to this.

I really, really dislike this attitude. Simply because one used to believe something doesn't mean that he/she always will or that he/she is somehow defined by a belief that that has been repudiated. Some rejections are, and should be, final.

It also isn't good news for atheists or agnostics.

It's condescending.

Laura,

I'm sure that it is difficult for you to understand that a 'saved' Christian can find Christianity unnecessary and in fact a hinderance to happiness and fulfillment. One of the many reasons I no longer consider myself Christian is those of you who do consider yourself Christians yet feel you have the authority to define what a 'true' Christian is. It smacks of extortion. A RCC tactic that was used in the Inquisition. Abuse of faith.
How much do you really know and understand about your faith Laura? Do you know the history and meaning of your particular brand well enough to insist yours is the 'true' belief?
I don't think so. You made a blunder with your remark today and don't have the graciousness to admit it. Your pride in your Christianity could be your downfall.
Did I mention that I have a whole lot of ministers in my family? Sermonizing is in the blood! Blind Faith is not. (Unless you are talking about the band).

"So, you actually wouldn't mind if people were in SF when "The Big One" hits. Thanks for clearing that up."
---------
No, I said I wouldn't lose any sleep. I also said I would pray for them, and cry for them.

"And the deaths of over a thousand people in New Orleans were an example of God's love."

------------
No, read it again...I said, "was a wonderful testament of the TRUTH of God. It showed the POWER of God, God's AUTHORITY over man, God's LOVE for His people, and what the CHAOS will be like, worldwide, AFTER the Rapture of the Church...LAWLESSNESS.

"I'm not qualified to say whether those are "Christian" attitudes or not."

---------------
Thank you. I truly respect that statement.
"It's enough for me to say that I find them horrifyingly anti-human."

---------

I am truly sorry that you feel that way. If you came to know Jesus Christ, you would realize that "human" doesn't mean much, other than we are flawed and helpless without God.

Rest assured that you are in my prayers!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 6, 2007 9:55 PM

.................................................

Laura, are you in the least bit aware that not all Christians believe in your end times in a literal sense? Or that for you to be making predictions over future events is heathen and sinful?
Not to mention how egotistical you come off pretending to know what anyone might garner from 'knowing' Jesus?
And then to add an 'I'll pray for you' as if it was some kind of weapon!
Sorry honey, but you made your beliefs a target for scrutiny when you brought it into the subject matter.

I'm still not seeing how the near-destruction of New Orleans showed "God's LOVE for His people". Unless you're referring to the ones who survived.

AB Laura,

"If, what you say is true, that you were a Christian, and did this, then I have GREAT news for you....you still are a Christian..you would just be in the "testing of faith" phase (which could last many years for some!)"

I simply must respond to this.

I really, really dislike this attitude. Simply because one used to believe something doesn't mean that he/she always will or that he/she is somehow defined by a belief that that has been repudiated. Some rejections are, and should be, final.

It also isn't good news for atheists or agnostics.

It's condescending.

Posted by: Enigma at December 6, 2007 11:39 PM
..........................................

You got it! I rejected Christianity because I find it abusive. And just like an abusive husband screaming that you never really loved him and will come crawling back as you walk away, Laura is attempting the same.

I'm still not seeing how the near-destruction of New Orleans showed "God's LOVE for His people". Unless you're referring to the ones who survived.

Posted by: Jen R at December 7, 2007 12:03 AM

..................................................

Mardis Gras brought on the destruction Jen. How could you not know that? @@

MK and Anonymous,

Have you actually gone and looked at what they are, or did you assume that they are useless groups because you didn't like their name?

The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence - Small bit of what they do - raises money for AIDS, human rights and safer sex/harm reduction campaigns, education on issues such as hate crime.
Transgender Law Center - Civil rights organization for transgender communities. Provides legal services, public policy advocacy, and educational opportunities to advance the rights and safety of diverse transgender communities.
Triangle Martial Arts Association - Created after a wave of hate crime that resulted in the murder of a gay student. Encourages all people (especially LGBTQQI, senior, and the disabled) to learn self-defense, and fight homophobia and prejudice.

All of these are non-profit organizations, and all sound like awesome causes to me.

Mardis Gras brought on the destruction Jen. How could you not know that? @@

Posted by: Sally at December 7, 2007 12:08 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GOD HATES BEADS!

Jen R,

I'm right with you.

Pro-life and Human rights should go hand in hand. That we are wasting energy to create such a division is distasteful.

In my world, people would be welcome to the pro-life movement because of their diversity and advocacy to change, not if they had accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior or fulfilled all of the set, conservative, Republican, Christian criteria.

I have noticed a lot as I've closely watched the movement and my discussions with others on the pro-life issue, that many people are willing to entertain the pro-life side especially in light of organizations like Feminists for Life. However they don't want to be pressured to fit all of these "Christian-values" crowds if they do want to work with gay civil rights rather than condemnation. Our Co-coordinator at Amnesty went to March for Life last year and said a speaker there started going off on other tangents, like gay marriage. She said all of the college students were just shocked. I think it's great that the religious are so involved, so the prayers and stuff are great and should be continued. But it is getting to the point where non-christians feel alienated.

This is not a way to win the majority. We need to branch outside of the Christian right. We need to be welcoming. Otherwise I severely doubt we will take over much ground.

and lol I hate to admit it but I think the poster looks well-done!

Jen R,

I'm right with you.

Pro-life and Human rights should go hand in hand. That we are wasting energy to create such a division is distasteful.

In my world, people would be welcome to the pro-life movement because of their diversity and advocacy to change, not if they had accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior or fulfilled all of the set, conservative, Republican, Christian criteria.

I have noticed a lot as I've closely watched the movement and my discussions with others on the pro-life issue, that many people are willing to entertain the pro-life side especially in light of organizations like Feminists for Life. However they don't want to be pressured to fit all of these "Christian-values" crowds if they do want to work with gay civil rights rather than condemnation. Our Co-coordinator at Amnesty went to March for Life last year and said a speaker there started going off on other tangents, like gay marriage. She said all of the college students were just shocked. I think it's great that the religious are so involved, so the prayers and stuff are great and should be continued. But it is getting to the point where non-christians feel alienated.

This is not a way to win the majority. We need to branch outside of the Christian right. We need to be welcoming. Otherwise I severely doubt we will take over much ground.

Posted by: prettyinpink at December 7, 2007 1:17 AM
.......................................................

You've left out one great big equation. Women and their right to reproductive freedom. The cat has been let out of the bag. Women will never again tolerate being slaves to their reproductive organs. We will determine when we become parents. Give us free health care, free day care and educations for our children through college and you might have something to talk about.

Sad Eyed Sally reveals her PTSD is from being ignorant enough to associate with men who know exactly how to treat Sally.
Remember Sad Eyed Sally, the law of Laura requires that what goes around comes around.
If one is to apply the law of Laura and the vengence of Sally with PTSD, gays are just getting what goes around comes around.
But, with Sally you get exactly what happens to a person when one has become a practicioner of deathsex.
Sex=death. Ain't that right Sally? Afterall it is the source of your PTSD which began with the God of what goes around came around for you Sad Eyed Sally. Face the truth Sally, you have abused yourself from being ignorant of deathsex, which beats the God of Life, easily. Sally is that typical loser who failed the opening act of despair in her deathsex filled life. Now, go take some anti-despair drugs Sad Eyed Sally, which blunt your mind and those memories of sex is death. And Sad Eyed Sally, we can tell when the anti-despair medication is not blunting you Sad Eyed Sally, it shows in your post going from mild to hot insult for no reason.
The connection between abortion and gays is their results of sex, is death. Dead babies, and death from seeking self love in others. Nothing created but death.
Both abortionist and gays are connected in the PTSD of Sally. Death and sex are intimately associated in both groups.
Got any more stories about death Sally? Ain't you the expert on this board about seeing more death then anyone else? Or is Paris Hilton still casting those lonely eyes in your direction Sally?
Everybody understands your sympathy for the devil, Sally, especially those men you actually wanted to punish you.
Now, if only you knew Doug, back then, there is a man with compassion and understanding of women who are suffering through times of despair.

Sally,

A RCC tactic that was used in the Inquisition. Abuse of faith.

Do you have any idea how profound what you just said here is...

Abuse of Faith. Abuse. Not Faith, is the problem.
(This of course going back to the other thread about the Catholic Church...)

I have no problem admitting that things done in the name of the church were wrong, bad, evil, perverted and not so good neither!

But they happened because the Faith and the perceived power that went along with it were abused. The faith itself was not at fault. The ABUSE of it was.

Disowning a beautiful faith because of a group of twisted, sick individuals is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water or biting off your nose to spite your face...

I hate what was done in the name of my Church and I am greatly saddened by the long lasting damage that it caused.

I am also saddened by the things that go on in the church today in His name. But if you look to people you will always be disappointed. If you look to Truth you will never be let down.

As to ABLaura's way of seeing things...

As a Catholic I don't believe in the Rapture. So I don't believe that Christians would be safely removed were San Francisco to suddenly fall off the face of the earth. I also think that area of the country is exquisitely beautiful.

It is an ongoing struggle, wanting desperately for God to do something about the state of the world, and hoping that more souls can find him...

This is called Mercy. Lord end it now, but wait five minutes cuz there's still a chance we can save a few more souls. But don't wait too long cuz the world is getting uglier, but don't act too fast cuz it would be a shame if just a few more days meant a few more souls...and on and on.

Eventually, He too will say enough is enough. Today, Tomorrow or 10,000 years from now. It doesn't matter...our job is to pray for the "safety" of as many souls as we can until that day...and pray that the very souls we are praying for don't destroy the world in the meantime...

You guys are all up in arms about AB Laura wishing that San Francisco would disappear because "innocent" people would be harmed. And yet you don't blink an eye at the fact that innocent people are being slaughtered everyday in the name of CHOICE...Of course, not being Christian give you a free pass, no?

Laura,

GOD HATES BEADS!

Not when they are strung together in groups of ten and have a crucifix at the end...

We will determine when we become parents. Give us free health care, free day care and educations for our children through college and you might have something to talk about.

You could always move to a socialist country...oh wait, they have abortions too...never mind.

We will determine when we become parents. Give us free health care, free day care and educations for our children through college and you might have something to talk about.

The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence - Small bit of what they do - raises money for AIDS, human rights and safer sex/harm reduction campaigns, education on issues such as hate crime.

Sally,

So what you are saying, is that you want to act in what I believe is a seriously immoral fashion, having sex whenever and wherever you wish AND you want the government to FUND this behavior?

And Anonymous,

You are applauding the fact that these groups are raising money for AIDS awareness and research while promoting the very behavior that spreads aids.

Are either one of you aware of "cause" and "effect"?

Do you not see that it is "Behavior" that causes these situations...and that all the AIDS funds and government help in the world will not matter one iota until certain "Behaviors change?

Again with the "I refuse to own my actions, not my fault if I have AIDS/am pregnant for the eighth time." I shouldn't have to curb my behavior. I am not responsible for the spread of this disease OR the numerous pregnancies. They just happpened. I am a victim! And now the Government should PAY, PAY, PAY!!!!

That's just crazy talk.

Sally, yes I will. Stephanie, what do you think of my point that children were there? They can clearly been seen in several pictures and Colmes states that they were there. The organizers of the Fair said children shouldn't come, but they didn't outright prohibit it. Performing sex acts infront of children is child abuse, what say you? I would feel this way if children were at a hetero sex party.

Stephanie,

You wrote:

MK and Anonymous,

Have you actually gone and looked at what they are, or did you assume that they are useless groups because you didn't like their name?

Posted by: Stephanie at December 7, 2007 12:17 AM

____________________________________________________________

Stephanie,

All I did was post the names of the nonprofit organizations entirely without comment.

I think you are the one assuming.

How is simply listing the organizations an attack on them?

I didn't look them up, so I couldn't comment on them and I didn't call them "useless". Maybe they are, maybe not. I don't know and never said I did.

What makes you assume they are useful? Did you look them up? Have you heard of them before? Do you believe that every single nonprofit without exception is above reproach? Should people check them out, or just assume they are great because they filed a 501 c 3?

MK, talking to me?

were you talking to me?

"And Anonymous,

You are applauding the fact that these groups are raising money for AIDS awareness and research while promoting the very behavior that spreads aids."

Posted by: mk at December 7, 2007 5:03 AM
_________________________________________________

Huh?

All I did was list them. That is not applause.

Sorry Anonymous,

I think it was Stephanie that I meant...sorry.

My guy I used to know has AIDS. The government is footing the astronomical bill for his poor sexual choices. He was a gay man who loved his 3 way sexcapades. I can't remember what his 1 week hospital stay in ICU cost the government.

Thank you, mk for your post at 4:45 am. I know it was directed at Sally, but it was helpful to me, as well.

By the way, I'm pro-life. Don't assume otherwise just because ablaura's post appalled me!! :)

"Give us free health care, free day care and educations for our children through college and you might have something to talk about. "
Actually I do believe that we should have universal health care and free day care for mothers who are disadvantaged or in situations like being a college student.

public education is free, and a lot of colleges will help out students that don't have enough money.

"Again with the "I refuse to own my actions, not my fault if I have AIDS/am pregnant for the eighth time." I shouldn't have to curb my behavior. I am not responsible for the spread of this disease OR the numerous pregnancies. They just happpened. I am a victim! And now the Government should PAY, PAY, PAY!!!!

That's just crazy talk."

I too think personal responsibility needs to be promoted and practiced.

"You are applauding the fact that these groups are raising money for AIDS awareness and research while promoting the very behavior that spreads aids.""

Actually, being smart is what it is all about. Many HIV+ gay people know how to handle it- taking the necessary drugs to keep viral count way down, use protection every time, engage in sexual behaviors that don't spread HIVs, get tested regularly.

This education and practice is what needs to happen to stop the spread of AIDS, so I applaud such organizations. Simply condemning the behavior does absolutely nothing.

*HIV

"free day care for mothers who are disadvantaged or in situations like being a college student."

Actually before I get hounded on for this:

I think every working place should offer day care for the workers. They can hire sitters, which also create more jobs. In college we can use work-study students to help them out. For working mothers who are below a certain income level, they should be able to have free access to these places, and it is up to the company whether to provide free day care to all employees. I think that most colleges should provide free day care for all. The biggest way to help single mothers rise above their situation is education. These women need all the assistance they can get.

I definitely agree that colleges should provide subsidized or free daycare for students.

My only fear regarding free daycare for all is that free daycare = low paid daycare providers = poor care/high turnaround at centers. They're paid poorly enough as it is. I think it would be difficult to provide quality free care. Just look how upset people get about others receiving free medical care, they would probably feel the same way about free daycare.

PIP,

"You are applauding the fact that these groups are raising money for AIDS awareness and research while promoting the very behavior that spreads aids.""

Actually, being smart is what it is all about. Many HIV+ gay people know how to handle it- taking the necessary drugs to keep viral count way down, use protection every time, engage in sexual behaviors that don't spread HIVs, get tested regularly.
*
This education and practice is what needs to happen to stop the spread of AIDS, so I applaud such organizations. Simply condemning the behavior does absolutely nothing.

I was referring to the fair when I said promoting the very things that would spread HIV...I can't imagine that going to a street fair naked and having sex with everyone and anyone that was up for it was very "safe"...

Pip and Samantha,

When I was in college, they were planning a "fee" that students would pay to help the football team. There was some guy who would give the university $25 million all of which would go to the football program if the students would vote what I call a football tax on themselves. Can you say make me vomit?

Where are the big bucks for women and children?

They had a great but teeny weeny daycare for staff, which students could use if there was space oh and a huge wait list for students. My friend is the assistant dean at the college of art there and her son loved it.

I would happily pay a fee to subsidize daycare knowing it would help someone who needed it, but for football that already has a bazillion athletic supporters and official gear yada yada?

As I said, make me vomit.

Hippie-

That is disgusting! Unfortunately, it's not surprising.

I've only attended 2 colleges, and both had a small daycare that students could use, but I don't think either offered any special rates. It's too bad, since colleges seem like they would be in a position to offer fantastic child care services, with education majors and such.

"I would happily pay a fee to subsidize daycare knowing it would help someone who needed it, but for football that already has a bazillion athletic supporters and official gear yada yada?

As I said, make me vomit."

Me too! It's stupid that nowadays sports and the team's egos are more important than the well-being of women and children. That's so ridiculous.

samantha ditto!

They don't *have* to make it free for everyone. The company/school can set it up so that people who can afford it pay for it. As long as the women who need it can use it- that means disadvantaged women should get free day care. They can set it up any way they want to, as long as this service is provided.

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaack!

Actually, the alleged stretch/gap between abortion and homosexual sodomy isn't all that significant, according to former PP V.P Frederick Jaffe.

In 1970, Jaffe outlined a 5-point plan for reducing the world population. The two top items on his agenda were compulsory abortion of out-of-wedlock children and encouraging homosexual behavior. See, PP's real agenda has nothing to do with "reproductive/sexual freedom". It's all about population reduction. On the one end, they want to reduce the birth rate and on the other, increase the death rate. Abortion does both. So does homosexual sodomy. They don't reproduce, they die young (the median age of death for a practicing male sodomite is 45), they spread deadly stds, and many of them are involved in other self-destructive behaviors.

As for the imaginary "big homo babies" Laura with which arrogantly mocks genuine concern for humanity and the moral laws designed to bless and protect us, I don't think she never did answer a previous post asking whether she would favor sex-orientation selection abortions, if a "gay gene" ever really was discovered and parents wanted to kill babies they thought were likely to be homosexuals. It's unlikely, of course, that such a conflict of population control interests will actually materialize; but we can't help asking the pro-homo/pro-abort crowd which "right" they would throw under the bus first; abortion or homosexuality. Any of you borts care to respond with something besides the sort of hysterical hyperbole that Laura seems to consistently confuse with rational refutation/debate?

BTW, not all prolifers agree that abortion images are inappropriate/harmful for children to see. Some school-aged children gladly display such images, hoping to save the lives of other children and their moms. But whether or not we think children should SEE "those pictures", we agree on the bigger issue, and that is that no children should BE "those pictures". Laura, you really do owe it to yourself and everyone else to get your facts straight before you go wagging that poisoned tongue/pen of yours again. What to do with your abundance of toxic refuse then? Flush it down the toilet. Toilets are made for that purpose; human beings are not.

MK,

"You are applauding the fact that these groups are raising money for AIDS awareness and research while promoting the very behavior that spreads aids."

I'm applauding that these groups are yes, raising money for AIDS and HIV awareness, and are defending the rights of LGBTQQI citizens. And what behavior would that be? It's not just homosexual sex that causes HIV and AIDS, you know.

What other method would you suggest without taking away these citizen's sexual freedom?

Anonymous,
I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions. My posts should have only addressed MK.

Anonymous,

I know that these groups are useful and worthy causes because I did in fact, look them up before commenting on them. I admit, donating to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence threw me off a bit, before I actually went and researched them. Again, I should have addressed only MK.

Sorry for the multiple posts. I keep reading through and seeing more that I want to address.

Carrie,

"Stephanie, what do you think of my point that children were there?"

No, I wouldn't want children there; I think their brains would explode trying to comprehend BDSM. I don't think the solution would be to ban the fair or anything like that...either have the outskirts stationed with more volunteers so parents bringing kids know what they're getting into, or bring it indoors so it's easier to screen the crowds.

I don't think she never did answer a previous post asking whether she would favor sex-orientation selection abortions, if a "gay gene" ever really was discovered and parents wanted to kill babies they thought were likely to be homosexuals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually, I did answer your question.
A woman decision to abort is hers alone. She doesn't have to justify her reason to anybody.

Hmmm...whatever happened to the charges of "Indecent Exposure" or "Public Indecency" ?

This is disgusting...just because this "fair" from hell has lots of big name sponsors that support several "charities(?)" does not make it right.

*does anybody remember what happened to Sodom and Gomorrha?

Everyone, I sent emails to several SF government officals and expressed my grave concerns. I'll let you know if and when I get a response.

Stephanie, I think the solution to this problem should be that children are banned outright.. Parents shouldn't have the option of bringing their children to an event where sexual acts will be taking place. This isn't draconian in my opinion. Parents can't take their to strip clubs or adult theatres. If they wanted to, they could have a family day preceding the fair where same- sex couples could bring their children for wholesome activities. I think would be a workable solution.

We will determine when we become parents. Give us free health care, free day care and educations for our children through college and you might have something to talk about.

The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence - Small bit of what they do - raises money for AIDS, human rights and safer sex/harm reduction campaigns, education on issues such as hate crime.

Sally,

So what you are saying, is that you want to act in what I believe is a seriously immoral fashion, having sex whenever and wherever you wish AND you want the government to FUND this behavior?

And Anonymous,

You are applauding the fact that these groups are raising money for AIDS awareness and research while promoting the very behavior that spreads aids.

Are either one of you aware of "cause" and "effect"?

Do you not see that it is "Behavior" that causes these situations...and that all the AIDS funds and government help in the world will not matter one iota until certain "Behaviors change?

Again with the "I refuse to own my actions, not my fault if I have AIDS/am pregnant for the eighth time." I shouldn't have to curb my behavior. I am not responsible for the spread of this disease OR the numerous pregnancies. They just happpened. I am a victim! And now the Government should PAY, PAY, PAY!!!!

That's just crazy talk.

Posted by: mk at December 7, 2007 5:03 AM
.............................................

Darlin', if you wish to force me to continue an unwanted pregnancy, you pony up for my medical expenses and that of the child if there should be one. As well it's education.
Funny that you care about all those itty bitty unborn babies before they are born. What difference does it make to those itty bitty babies how they came to be? Isn't that your mantra? Don't you want abortion to go away?
Then eliminate the reasons that women abort.

I definitely agree that colleges should provide subsidized or free daycare for students.

My only fear regarding free daycare for all is that free daycare = low paid daycare providers = poor care/high turnaround at centers. They're paid poorly enough as it is. I think it would be difficult to provide quality free care. Just look how upset people get about others receiving free medical care, they would probably feel the same way about free daycare.

Posted by: samantha at December 7, 2007 9:52 AM

Some people are willing and able to pump out huge sums to provide excellent day care and education for their own children but balk at proving such for every child.
What a Christian nation we are! Why aren't churches providing these things for free?

Sally,

I never said I was against helping to pay for these children's needs...just wanted to point out that you are asking us to pay so that you can continue to behave in an irresponsible fashion, which I find typical of the pro-choice crowd...Just more, "it's all about me mindset."

You guys still don't get the fact that you are responsible for getting yourselves pregnant, and for the most part getting HIV. If you changed your behavior or at the very least owned your behavior, we wouldn't even be having a conversation.

I and many other pro lifers already DO help support women that choose to keep their children.

I shouldn't post when I have a massive headache! My 1:06 post should read *Parents can't take their children......*

Stephanie, I think the solution to this problem should be that children are banned outright.. Parents shouldn't have the option of bringing their children to an event where sexual acts will be taking place. This isn't draconian in my opinion. Parents can't take their to strip clubs or adult theatres. If they wanted to, they could have a family day preceding the fair where same- sex couples could bring their children for wholesome activities. I think would be a workable solution.

Posted by: Carrie at December 7, 2007 1:06 PM
..................................

I wouldn't be surprised if the people with children were tourists wandering in wondering what was going on. Imagine being unprepared for what they might have seen!
I hope that you get a response Carrie. I'd love to know what they have to say.

"Don't you want abortion to go away?.. eliminate the reasons that women abort "

-------------------------------------
I would agree to this...everybody should be taught sexual RESPONSIBILTY!

If you don't want to be pregnant...don't engage in sexual activity (especially for pre-teens, teens, unemancipated minors and college kids)

If you do get pregnant...the real Responsible CHOICE is either Motherhood or Adoption...

Sally,

I never said I was against helping to pay for these children's needs...just wanted to point out that you are asking us to pay so that you can continue to behave in an irresponsible fashion, which I find typical of the pro-choice crowd...Just more, "it's all about me mindset."

You guys still don't get the fact that you are responsible for getting yourselves pregnant, and for the most part getting HIV. If you changed your behavior or at the very least owned your behavior, we wouldn't even be having a conversation.

I and many other pro lifers already DO help support women that choose to keep their children.

Posted by: mk at December 7, 2007 1:29 PM
.....................................................................

Irresponsibility doesn't cause pregnancy mk. Fertilization and implantation does. Infertile women can sleep around all they want with no consequences/punishment.
What I hear you saying is that your issue is sexuality. Not abortion.

"Don't you want abortion to go away?.. eliminate the reasons that women abort "

-------------------------------------
I would agree to this...everybody should be taught sexual RESPONSIBILTY!

If you don't want to be pregnant...don't engage in sexual activity (especially for pre-teens, teens, unemancipated minors and college kids)

If you do get pregnant...the real Responsible CHOICE is either Motherhood or Adoption...

Posted by: RSD at December 7, 2007 1:39 PM
...........................................................

Sorry, I find adoption the epitome of irresponsibility. You bring it into the world it is your obligation to support and raise it. If you are unable to do so, abortion is the responsible choice.

Carrie,

I don't think I made myself clear. I do not think parents should be bringing their kids to the fair. What I said about the volunteers patrolling the outskirts were for curious tourists wondering what was going on, as Sally said. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you.

I too, am interested in what SF City has to say.

You bring it into the world it is your obligation to support and raise it.

An unborn child is in the world. At least, when I was pregnant, I don't remember my uterus relocating to another plane of existence!

Homosexuality causes abortion? Is that what they teach in those abstinence-only sex ed classes these days? I thought only one form of human sexual expression, male-female penis-vagina intercourse, had any possibility of leading to a problem pregnancy and abortion, especially if it is not accompanied by some form of contraception or natural family planning.

But maybe I was kidnapped, abused, and brainwashed by some ravenous renegade Homosexuality/Pedophilia/Bestiality squad till I believed that? (for the record, most sexual abusers of children are men who abuse little girls and identify as straight...same,i think, with sexual abusers of animals...)

Homosexuality causes abortion? Well, that's news to all the LGBT youth who are pressured by society to hate themselves so much that they abort themselves right out of our delicate, affronted moral sensibilities by committing suicide. Or by taking self-destructive risks with heterosexual sex (see above) and ending up with problem pregnancies and abortion?

Homosexuality causes abortion? Well, that's big news to all the members and allies of PLAGAL, the Pro Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians,www.plagal.org, who stand up for unwanted life before and after birth with a courage and an ethical power that should do any social-justice, human-rights movement (like the prolife movement is supposed to be) proud.

Homosexuality causes abortion? Well, if there is ever a prenatal test for sexual orientation, let's see if antiabortionists are going to speak out against the rash of abortions that are bound to occur in the homophobic culture so many of them are complicit with--or if they're just going to say, "Homosexuality causes abortion"...just like being female causes sex-selective abortion, or being disabled causes disability abortion, right?

From a proudly LGBT-affirming, longtime prolifer

"abortion is the responsible choice"
-----------------------------------
So, you would rather kill the baby rather than let him/ her live with another family?

Gotcha Stephanie. I'll let you know what the officals say. :)

Marysia, it is great to hear from you. I didn't know that your organization existed. I am glad to know that it does.

Marysia, I couldn't find a single post where a pro-lifer claimed homosexuality causes abortion. Maybe you could point it out to me? I might have missed it.

Pip, Samantha,

When I was in school, the football players were also provided with private tutors. I knew a guy who got a work study job tutoring players. The subsidies go on and on. I love sports and there is nothing wrong with recognizing and rewarding atheltic accomplishment.

I also think that women need educational opportunites and if we can cater to the specific needs of student athletes, then we can cater to parenting students. It doesn't really take a genius in administration to set up a program and facility for on campus day care. Lots of students need on campus work. They have a captive parttime labor pool. It wouldn't have to be totally free, a reasonable fee schedule could be achieved. Payment could even be defered til graduation or women could get some other public assistance. Certainly all those educated folks on college campuses could figure it out.

Of course first they would have to care.

"So, you would rather kill the baby rather than let him/her live with another family?"

Who is this baby of which you speak?

Abortion does not harm children because there is no baby involved to kill.

right on, hippie.

Of course first they would have to care.-hippie

Exactly. I remember during my undergrad at a large state school there were "family dorms," basically small apartments for students with children. I was never inside them, but from the outside they looked like run-down, old public housing buildings. And they were in a bad area of town far from the main campus. Nowhere near as nice as the clean, new regular dorms.

Just like day care, housing is something that could be easy for a large university to provide, but students with children don't bring the publicity/fans/excitement that athletes do. Boo!

Carrie, thank you--yes, there are prolifers who believe in LGBT rights and other things that some other opponents of abortion equate with death. We need to get more organized & visible & audible!

Bethany, I was being a little sarcastic. Jill's post had the tone of so many other abortion-opponent statements about homosexuality & contraception--that somehow these practices are all interconnected evils in a "culture of death," when in fact (at least in my view) the right to choose to engage in these very practices can help greatly to prevent abortions, and they can be very lifeafirming in other ways for the people who choose to engage in.

Of course, nonviolent (nonabortion)choice also means that people who do not want to engage in same-sex relationships or use contraception should be free to do just that, although that limits the number of methods they have to prevent unplanned pregnancies and abortions. But it is their right to do so.

I don't think that the Folsom fair represents most or even many homosexuals. None of my gay or lesbian friends act like that. They are pretty much like everyone else. Likewise, rappers with lyrics about abusing women or sexual situations do not represent heterosexuals.

Marysia, do you know of any LGBT prolifers in MA? It would be great to form some kind of Straight-Gay Prolife Alliance. As a straight person, I would welcome the opportunity to help that come about.

I looked at the photo gallery of pictures for that fair..and seeing the young children there was just appalling to me. The negative effects on impressionable children of that age are astronomical. And I am in no way just speaking about homosexual sex. If it were a fair with straight people performing sexual acts with kids there I would feel the SAME way.

Laura, you posted about my comment about covering my daughter's eyes whenever the "truth truck" comes around. YES I did that. There is 1 major difference though that I do not think you are aware of. Taking my daughter to a pro-life rally teaches her that as a human being, we stand up for what we believe is right. It may not be age appropriate to see a sign with an aborted baby on it..but at least I could have a rational explanation for it. What rational explanation could you give a kid who's watching people perform sexual acts in public? Better yet, how does THAT better humanity?

**On a side note, when my daughter sees the pictures of the aborted babies..they don't frighten her, because she doesn't see a mangled baby..she just sees a baby. She smiles, points to it, and says "baby." Even someone THAT small knows what is on those signs is a baby..why don't YOU?**

**On a side note, when my daughter sees the pictures of the aborted babies..they don't frighten her, because she doesn't see a mangled baby..she just sees a baby. She smiles, points to it, and says "baby." Even someone THAT small knows what is on those signs is a baby..why don't YOU?**

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 7, 2007 10:56 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Because I'm not as simple as a 2-year-old?
You take her to those grotesque, disturbing rallies and she STILL doesn't know what a fetus is?
Maybe it's time for some testing...

Elizabeth,

interesting that your daughter doesn't mind dismembered bodies of children...

I usually cry looking at such things, I don't mean anything by this post really, My sleeping meds kicking in, I just found it interesting.

Children at a very young age often are not able to comprehend it in the way that we can as adults, PIP. We cry when we see pictures like these because we understand what they mean and we know how sad it is. Children at a young age are too young to understand what they are seeing or what all of the blood, etc means. Know what I mean?

She is a 2-year old, Laura. She doesn't see anything grotesque. She sees a baby. It is unfortunate that you don't. My daughter has a lot of fun at the rallies we have been to. She likes to hold the signs and talk/play with the other kids. She really likes it. Sorry to disappoint you.

**Oh and by hold the signs..I am not talking about the "gross" ones you guys talk about..She holds the ones that say "PP lies to you, etc."**

PIP,

My daughter doesn't SEE the dismembered body parts..she only sees a baby and recognizes it as what she has seen a baby to be. Which usually is a happy, smiling, beautiful baby. As a 2-year old, I'm sure you wouldn't mind much, cause you would have no frame of reference to be bothered by such a picture. I imagine you would just see a baby as well.

I agree I probably wouldn't comprehend it. I just can't imagine doing so (I guess it's because I can't remember my terrible twos)

Here's another take on small children seeing "those pictures"...

Who Broke the Baby?

by Jean Garton

"The distance between life and death," wrote columnist Paul Greenberg, "can be as small as a word." His comment jogged my memory as to how a single word at a particular time had fashioned my own personal journey through the doublespeak of abortion.
Some twenty years ago, when I joined an organization of abortion advocates, it was the word "right"-as in "a woman's right to choose"- that shaped my views. A few years later it was again the word "right"-as in the "the right to life"-that drew me into the pro-life movement.

As an abortion advocate, I had learned never to give humanity to what was in the womb of a pregnant woman. "Don't use the words 'child' or 'baby,'" we were told. Talk instead about "a mass of tissue" or "the product of conception."

Mass of tissue? Who isn't? Product of conception? Aren't we all? If what is aborted is not a living human being with a claim to legal protection then why couldn't we defend abortion with words that were less generic? It seemed to me a strange kind of truth that required deception to promulgate it.

After months of seeking such words, I found none. I realized I either had to change my mind or continue to change reality by disguising the truth.

In America today the lives of unborn children have come to depend not on scientific fact but on the use of misleading words. "Fetus" is one of those. It is a good word, a medical word, but a Latin word. Why has a word from a "dead" language been resurrected for use in everyday conversation? After all, we don't congratulate parents on the birth of their "neonate."

Verbal smoke screens have long been used to accustom people to accept ideas, actions, and policies they would otherwise find obnoxious. "Fetus" serves the manipulative purpose of dehumanizing those in the womb who are unwanted, while words like "unborn children" or "child before birth" call forth an emotional and relational response.

A few years ago, in a high-profile trial of an abortion doctor, a picture was shown of an unborn child the same gestational age as the one who had been aborted. The press called it a "fetus." The doctor's lawyer called it a "fetus." The jury, though, called what they saw a "premature baby."

Shakespeare understood that it is easier to kill a snake than to kill a human being. Thus in Julius Caesar he has Brutus set the stage for Caesar's murder by using words that would dehumanize him: "Think him as a serpent's egg . . . and kill him in the shell."

Yet women throughout the ages have always known that what they carry are children. Before ever there was a pro-life movement there were baby showers, not fetus showers. Pregnant women are asked by friend and stranger alike, "When is your baby due?" Fathers say, "I heard the baby's heartbeat," and mothers say, "I felt the baby move." Expectant parents are quick to show ultrasound pictures of their baby in the womb. Women who miscarry grieve the loss of a child not of a fetus.

Over thirty years ago Planned Parenthood pamphlets warned that "an abortion kills the life of a baby after it has begun." To pretend that what is in the womb is anything but a child is, as George Will once said, "a revolution against the judgment of generations."

The unborn child, of course, is not the same as the child sleeping in a crib or playing in a sandbox. Yet, if someone were to say he or she had at home an infant and an adolescent, we surely would not wonder if that person was referring to different kinds of pets or variations of plants. Infant and adolescent are terms that describe human beings at various stages of development. That is all the word "fetus" does. It tells us where a child is on the life spectrum. Is the adolescent less human than the adult? Is the infant less human then the adolescent? Is the fetus less human than the infant? They are different only in terms of development and dependence.

Columnist Joan Beck, writing in the Chicago Tribune, said that "Obstetricians understand better than anyone else that an unborn baby isn't a blob of tissue or a growing tumor or an unnecessary appendix. Whatever the euphemisms, they know that it is living, that it is human, that it is unique, and that abortion kills it."

Children know it, too, and they know it instinctively. Late one night, as I viewed an abortion slide, my youngest child, then a sleepy three- year old, unexpectedly entered the room. I heard his sharp intake of breath as he saw the body of a three-month old, dismembered by a D & C abortion. With great sadness in his voice he asked, "Who broke the baby?" Here was a child too young to have his sight clouded by semantic subterfuge, and, with a wisdom that often escapes the learned, he could mentally assemble the body parts and call what he saw a broken baby.

What, then, is this thing called abortion? If a living human child is killed by it, is abortion murder? Not now. Not since the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling. "Murder," by dictionary definition, is "the unlawful and malicious or premeditated killing of one human being by another." Abortion qualifies as premeditated in that it is contracted for and carried out at a set time and place. What abortion is not is unlawful, but that does not change the nature of what abortion is or does.

There are some who taunt pro-lifers by saying that if we really believe abortion kills children, if what is in the womb is really a child, then we ought to commend, not condemn, the killing of abortion providers. They don't understand that it is possible to be anti-abortion but not pro-life, that pro-lifers oppose violence whether inside or outside abortion centers, that the goading of pro-lifers to respond in kind is more of a provocation to violence than are words that speak of a child's right to be born. Pro-lifers know that violence is too weak a weapon against the evil that is abortion. They know it cannot be called murder in a legal sense but that it can be called a holocaust.

This year marks the fiftieth anniversary of the end of World War II. While historically and socially the Nazi Holocaust was a unique episode in human history, the forces that created it are alive and well today. Those forces, the coupling of dehumanizing language with technology that dispatched victims in an efficient assembly-line manner, characterized the Third Reich. If we think that kind of evil is safely frozen in the past, we ignore the unpleasant truth about human nature: that the potential for great evil exists in each of us. And the human mind is never more resourceful than when it is involved in self-justification.

The Holocaust of half a century ago is too singular to be watered down by comparisons. But so, too, is the American holocaust of over thirty- two million children who have been killed and buried beneath words that have been emptied of their meaning. The words of Scripture, though, are clear and precise when they say of a pregnant woman simply that she is "with child." That is why, after twenty-two years, the Supreme Court's decision that was touted as having "settled" the abortion issue has not- because those who oppose it think in terms of reverence rather than rights.

-------------------------------------------------
Q. What's worse than children seeing "those pictures"?

A. Children BEING "those pictures".

Carrie,

That sounds like a great idea, a straight-lgbt prolife alliance. I'm pretty sure that PLAGAL, www.plagal.org, has members in MA and the Boston area--you might want to contact them.

**On a side note, when my daughter sees the pictures of the aborted babies..they don't frighten her, because she doesn't see a mangled baby..she just sees a baby. She smiles, points to it, and says "baby." Even someone THAT small knows what is on those signs is a baby..why don't YOU?**

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 7, 2007 10:56 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Because I'm not as simple as a 2-year-old?
You take her to those grotesque, disturbing rallies and she STILL doesn't know what a fetus is?
Maybe it's time for some testing...

Posted by: Laura at December 8, 2007 1:14 AM

______________________________________________________

From a cognitve development point of view, young children genrally only identify faces. One way of testing their spatial reasoning and development is to have them draw a picture of someone. Usually they only draw a face and maybe arms and legs coming out from where the neck would be. Most don't draw a body until you show them how. Maybe like a four or five year old. So even though they look at picture books with people's bodies represented, for some reason there is a gap. I am not really an expert in early childhood, but we discussed some broad topics in educational psychology.

Because I'm not as simple as a 2-year-old?
You take her to those grotesque, disturbing rallies and she STILL doesn't know what a fetus is?
Maybe it's time for some testing...

Posted by: Laura at December 8, 2007 1:14 AM

______________________________________________________
Excuse me? Pro choicers don't seem to have a problem with taking their kiddies to PC rallies. Is it really healthy for children to see livid women waving plastic coat hangers?

yllas: Now, if only you knew Doug, back then, there is a man with compassion and understanding of women who are suffering through times of despair.

yllas, there have always been people of compassion, and of course, alternately, there have always been people like you too.

**On a side note, when my daughter sees the pictures of the aborted babies..they don't frighten her, because she doesn't see a mangled baby..she just sees a baby. She smiles, points to it, and says "baby." Even someone THAT small knows what is on those signs is a baby..why don't YOU?**

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 7, 2007 10:56 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Because I'm not as simple as a 2-year-old?
You take her to those grotesque, disturbing rallies and she STILL doesn't know what a fetus is?
Maybe it's time for some testing...

Posted by: Laura at December 8, 2007 1:14 AM

______________________________________________________

From a cognitve development point of view, young children genrally only identify faces. One way of testing their spatial reasoning and development is to have them draw a picture of someone. Usually they only draw a face and maybe arms and legs coming out from where the neck would be. Most don't draw a body until you show them how. Maybe like a four or five year old. So even though they look at picture books with people's bodies represented, for some reason there is a gap. I am not really an expert in early childhood, but we discussed some broad topics in educational psychology.

Thank you Hippie..I was going to post a more in-depth explanation because I read about this in my lifespan psychology class..BUT I am still recovering from the stomach flu. Ick.

"Abortion does not harm children because there is no baby involved to kill.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 7, 2007 4:03 PM"
=========================================

..sigh...I will just pray that you and the others realize and see the Truth before it's too late...

Sally,

Darlin', if you wish to force me to continue an unwanted pregnancy, you pony up for my medical expenses

It's a deal...if the day ever comes where I start forcing women to get pregnant and have babies, I'll pay for them.

Until such time, if women get themselves pregnant with no help from me, they'll have to pay for themselves. If abortion becomes illegal, then they always have the "choice" to have an illegal one. No forcing from me...

Is it really healthy for children to see livid women waving plastic coat hangers?

Posted by: heather at December 8, 2007 5:43 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plastic, yes.
But always remember; NO WIRE HANGERS EVER!

">

Jill said: "I've said many times abortion activists and homosexual activists are closely related."

I don't get it. I would imagine that abortion rates are very very low in the gay community. Seriously, how can gayness contribute to abortions? It would require some divine intervention for two men (or two women) having sex to get pregnant - okay, it would be impossible!

I don't see the big deal of this event in SF. It's San Fransisco! And like another poster noted, this even doesn't by far represent all of the LGBT community and there are lots of pro-lifers in the LGBT community as well.

BTW, Fox news constantly shows "soft porn" during prime-time hours. They should be the ones criticized for exploiting sex and women for ratings! Please! girls gone wild and gay fetish events are NOT newsworthy.

I must say as the guy with the group that shot this video of San Francisco's depravities, I'm a bit shocked that a few left-leaners on this list are so cavalier about men and men having sex in the streets and walking around totally naked as the police did nothing. Since when did that become something we should "tolerate"? And FYI to the person who implied San Fran is tolerant of religious conservatives: the city council harassed a teen Christian group (BattleCry) that only sought to have a Gospel rally for youth. So here's the equation: protest Christian conservatives and the U.S. military, and welcome a sadistic sex celebration with nudity and public sex on the streets. Only in America's leading "gay" Mecca!

Nicole, did you happen to look at the pics..you know the one with the CHILDREN in them?!!

Nicole: Seriously, how can gayness contribute to abortions? It would require some divine intervention for two men (or two women) having sex to get pregnant - okay, it would be impossible!

:: laughing :: Nicole, it's great to read your posts, and you are so right.
......

Please! girls gone wild and gay fetish events are NOT newsworthy.

Now just hang on here.... How wild did those girls go?

Doug

BTW, Yikes! Why do gay men think that they look so good nude? Gross. Keep your clothes on guys.