That about sums it up. I wonder how long the money will hold out--the financial bubble grows thinner every year.

Abortion is kind of like the American consumer economy that manufactures less and less domestic product and consumes more and more from other countries. We "consume" our own children, import more from other countries, "consume" them, then pay for them to be "consumed" in that country! (Mexico City)

Pro-choicers choose not to reproduce themselves very often. So, the numbers look right to me: 20 to 1500, Pro-Lifers are winning.

Gee, Jill I didn't hear you describe the group of 20 to 30 students who skipped the ND commencement as "paltry" and "impotent",
Your ND circus had millions of dollars over 2 months of promotion by Faux News, the "all hate Obama all the time" "news" network. Sure makes your publicity stunt at ND look "impotent".

Gee, Jill I didn't hear you describe the group of 20 to 30 students who skipped the ND commencement as "paltry" and "impotent",
Your ND circus had millions of dollars over 2 months of promotion by Faux News, the "all hate Obama all the time" "news" network. Sure makes your publicity stunt at ND look "impotent".
Posted by: Bystander at May 19, 2009 7:33 PM

You are either willfully lying of you totally missed Jill's posts on Sunday. There were a lot more than 20 to 30.

Your posts are all the same. Critizing peaceful protestors who have the constituional right to demonstrate, and name all pro life activists as people who "hate" and you now are saying the same about Fox news.

I certainly think its reasonable to say your posts are full of hate, yet you claim its all on the pro life side.

I think you are getting worried about the "publicity stunts" pro life people are doing because it is clear the momentum is for pro life.

Oh yes and that news channel, Fox, that you hate so much, is whipping the Communist News Network and MSNBC in the ratings.

Fox beats CNN and MSNBC combined, and almost HLN as well.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/april_ratings_fnc_beats_cnn_and_msnbc_combined_115179.asp

The man with a neck tie. Must be a liberal prof since they have free time to roam. The girls? Oh my. They are a little chunky and not real candidates for pregnancy. We used to call them bridesmaids. They are envious of little ladies that get married and bare children.
What is with the NOW signs? Women that have babies are women also. Real women. It takes a real woman to raise and carry a child It doesn't take a real woman to carry a sign.

Posted by: xppc at May 19, 2009 8:29 PM
--------

About the very real young women - while we might disagree with their beliefs regarding abortion-choice, should we attack them on their appearance? We're asking them to respect the intrinsic value of the pre-born, as human beings. That has something to do with human flesh and blood and an intangible human nature, but little to do with appearance.

We need to respect them and love them - but if we're ever to sit down and discuss with them why every human being is immeasurably valuable, shouldn't we treat them as immeasurably valuable too?

The reporters consistently put the number of students boycotting Obama's address at about 30, or about 1-2% of the graduating class. Jill characterizes a protest with 20 to 30 participants as "paltry" and "impotent".
Just pointing out the irony.

Jill apparently agrees with my analysis, and the analysis of virtually everyone commenting that the ND publicity stunt was an epic fail.

Even the commentators at Fox News, the sponsor of the protest and Obama haters all, remarked at the "warm reception" give to Obama at ND.

Bystander,

So you would agree that the demonstration in Kansas was also a publicity stunt and an epic fail.

Fox News sponsored the protest? Sure Bystander, whatever you say.

Thanks for dodging all my questions Bystander. You never fail to say how conservatives and pro life "hate" but what are your posts full of?

And it wasn't a "publicity stunt." People were protesting, and rightfully so, that the most pro abortion president ever was speaking at a Catholic university.

If pro life people hate anything its abortion. Because we hate the taking of an innocent life.

Now go watch MSNBC if it will make you feel any better, along with the 5 other people who do. The rest of us "haters" will take Fox news any day.

Bystander, I think you need to make an appointment with your MD ASAP. Your liberalism is acting up again.

"Liberalism is a mental disorder." Michael Savage

Liberalism is a mental disorder. Watch any liberal media show. CNN= Communist News Network, MSNBC= MSLSD, Face The Nation= Disgrace The Nation. Meet The Press= Meet the Depressed!

Joanne, gotta love it! What else could it be?

I know that this sounds bad, but can I point several things about Planned Parenthood supporters:

Why are they always Anglo? I mean, to anyone who's an Anglo here, I have no problem with you, but why on earth are all of them Anglo. I mean, if I squint really hard and kind of knock some hair in my face, one of them looks Hispanic...but then I open my eyes and remove the hair and she's not.

Again, no problem with Anglo people. I'm just wondering if this is supposed to be something along the lines of:

"We strongly support (white) women who choose to keep their (white) children."

Because I've noticed that they seem to advocate minorities as the one's in dire need of abortions...but minorities don't often advocate need for abortions. The only minorities (and I know that this does not cover one hundred percent of the population; this is only my experience) I've ever met who are pro-choice are in the middle class. I've yet to meet a pro-choice member of the lower-class.

Funny how that works out...

Oh, wait, on a more related note: defund them! They say that the government has no right to get involved in this, but the government has an obligation to get involved when it comes to pay? They're wealthy enough. In any case, were Planned Parenthood to lose their money, they might actually, you know, understand for the first time in their lives what it means to be in the shows of one of the women who they do a terrible (emphasis on terrible) job of representing.

Aside from that, they have the full backing of politicians, celebrities, and wealthy organizations such as N.O.W. Please, God, let them lose their funding.

Hey Vannah, great point!!!

xppc, 8:29p: The man with the necktie was Planned Parenthood's paid attorney spokesman, Pedro Irigonegarary, Vote for him.

Bystander, 9:18p, wrote: "Jill apparently agrees with my analysis, and the analysis of virtually everyone commenting that the ND publicity stunt was an epic fail."

I don't know where you came up with that, Bystander. I think quite the contrary. I think the Notre Dame pro-life/pro-abortion showdown was an historic event that was a positive for the pro-life movement for so many reasons. One example: The ND incident finally branded Obama as radically pro-death.

There's significant movement in this country toward the pro-life position, somehow triggered by Obama himself. The more he seems to poke a stick at the sanctity of life, the more it seems to backfire in public opinion against abortion. I don't fully understand it, but that's what's happening at the moment.

Jill, God sure works in mysterious ways!

That is wonderful to hear Jill. And you would know.

I'm sorry but I'm LMAO!!! hahaha, If the Klann Hood's "peacful protest" was so successful, how come none of their supporters were persecuted or arrested?

Vannah 10:02PM

Great points. They should have followed MSNBC's Keith Odorman's advise to the tea party participants and have had some black people strategically placed in front of the cameras.
Since Odorman is such a strong proponent of tokenism, I wonder if he noticed or commented on this.

Loraine, good point!

Oh, wait, Mary, I'm sorry.

I didn't mean Hispanics or African Americans as tokens. I don't like being thought of as a token and I don't know anyone else who does either. I just meant that if this group claims to walk on water in the eyes of Hispanics and African Americans, then why are there so few who support them? There are institutes, sure, that come together for them, but I have a problem with these groups for several reasons:

1. Who says that the Latina groups that advocate "reproductive rights" represent me? What is it that they think? All Hispanics- amazingly enough!- come to the same conclusions about this? No. Individuality is individuality. It's not like a giant brain that distributes itself to every Hispanic put on the face of this earth.

2. Tokenism is wrong outside of race, too. They tend to have lots of men saying, "I'm a man! Let's surrender our rights to have a say in our reproductive matters! Woot woot!"

So all in all, I agree with you, Mary. I didn't mean that they need Hispanic, African American, et cetera tokens. I meant that they're liars to think that because they can correctly spell (and five times out of ten correctly pronounce) a name like "Ramirez" then all of us must adore them. I just found that insulting, that's all. And it took me this never-ending post to get that out- oops. :)

I don't know where you came up with that, Bystander. I think quite the contrary. I think the Notre Dame pro-life/pro-abortion showdown was an historic event that was a positive for the pro-life movement for so many reasons. One example: The ND incident finally branded Obama as radically pro-death.

It also demonstrates that Obama is largely out of step with American views on abortion. Most American's favor some restriction on abortion. Obama has never stated any condition or situation in which he would find abortion abhorrent or uncalled for. (rare?)
It also has demonstrated (once again but perhaps more openly) that Obama speaks with forked tongue - he misuses words to give the impression that he agrees with the people he's addressing when really he has his own agenda that he will not be distracted from.
Obama also made a significant error in his speech, not caught by the media for the most part. He called for helping women to carry their children to term. Well now, is it a child or a choice, Mr. Prez?

Agreed, there are LOTS of positive things from this fiasco!
For the first time in the past 40 years, we have a significant number of Roman Catholic bishops who have stood together to admonish a wayward Catholic (Fr. Jenkins) for his betrayal of his faith and of Jesus Christ.

Great points. They should have followed MSNBC's Keith Odorman's advise to the tea party participants and have had some black people strategically placed in front of the cameras.
Since Odorman is such a strong proponent of tokenism, I wonder if he noticed or commented on this.

Posted by: Mary at May 20, 2009 5:14 AM------------------------------------------------------------------- WOW! He really said that? OMG!

NOW= national orgainization of some liberal feminist and/or lesbian women. It would be interesting to see a suvey of the NOW membership to see what percentage are heterosexual conservatives.

They do not represent all women any more than the NAACP represents all 'colored people'.

If you are not 'liberal' you do not qualify to be 'colored' and you are not welcome in the NAACP.

Ask any recent immigrant from Africa if they associate them selves with the descriptor African-Americans or 'colored'.

They may accept the descriptor of Kenyan-American or Sudanese-American, but most of them avoid African-American and African-Americans.

Caucasians, mixtecas, mulattos, latinas, Indians(from India), asians, semitics from the middle east are all people of 'color'.

'liberals', like homosexuals, are not born that way, they are bent that way by choice and by circumstance.

yor bro ken

One other note.

While there was only a small percentage of ND graduates who boycotted the commencement execises, we only saw the ones who participated in the alternative service at the 'grotto'.

But there were another 1,500 to 2'000 supporters who joined them to celebrate their graduation.

And what you did not see or hear at the 'official' graduation ceremony were the many people who did cheer or applaud pbho, but remained seated in silent protest. They came, not to hear and see the POTUS, no matter who he or she might be, they came to celebrate the glorious occasion of the family member or friends graduation from college.

Bystaner, put that in your liberal feminista crack pipe and smoke it. Maybe it will clear your the fog from your mind.

yor bro ken

Ken, LOL!!!

Did it ever dawn on Oderman that their are black people who do not support Obama??? We had plenty at out Tea Party! Too bad their own race labels them an "Uncle Tom" though. One of the women who protests at the east side abortion clinic with me is black. She had an abortion back before it was legal, and she had one more legal abortion after that. 36 years ago. She is with us and her group "Silent No More" She told me that her entire family disses her b/c she refuses to support Obama.

Oderman is coming off as a racist with this drivel. I don't agree with Hillary Clinton, and I'm a white woman. Does that make me anti-woman or sexist?

Vannah,

You have a good point about most NOW/PP supporters being as white as they can be. However, in some defense of them (and you have to feel somewhat sorry for them when this is the best 4 groups can do), Kansas is a pretty white state (~83% Caucasion).

Of course, this is repeated around the country. Pro-lifers vastly outnumber pro-choicers at nearly every venue in the country (except maybe San Francisco), and the pro-choicers are generally aging white ex-hippies and a handful of gender/womyn studies majors from a local college. You know, the portrait of the USA.

Good Morning Vannah,

I think you misunderstood. Sometimes things don't come across on the internet the way you want to say them.
I was just pointing out what Odorman said and it was not connected to anything you said.
I just meant to point out his patronizing tokenism and wondered if he applied it to liberal demonstrations as well.
Most of all, I have to wonder if liberals EVER listen to themselves.

Mary-

I ask the same about some conservatives.

See y'all in another month (most likely anyway)

Dan,

I suppose you could.

If abortion is such a good thing, why isn't it mentioned in the ad?

Heather 8:18am

Probably not. After all, don't all black people think exactly the same? Watch the viciousness heaped on black people who dare stray off the liberal plantation, such as the black woman you mention.

Heather 8:18am

Probably not. After all, don't all black people think exactly the same? Watch the viciousness heaped on black people who dare stray off the liberal plantation, such as the black woman you mention.

Posted by: Mary at May 20, 2009 9:49 AM

The Martin Luther King family is not in line with the left in any way. see Alveda King.

I've been wondering if pro-life folks could extend a legacy in 'honour' of Prez Obama's visit to ND. How about 'obamacide' as a term for politico's favouring abortion? Catchy eh? It should stick to him ... and maybe even haunt him, eh?

Oh, okay, thanks, Mary. :)

I'm frequently amazed at how often race is a factor in politics. Why can't people just think beyond skin color? It's nonplussing, really, thinking about how often people expect this or that of every single race! Sigh. Little children have the right idea: don't even notice their friends' ethnicities. It's not an issue to young children! I wish that we could all remain like that.

Vannah 1:29PM

So true. I have to laugh at the issue that is made of diversity these days. I hate to tell these folks its nothing new, I spent my childhood in the most racially, ethnically, and religously diverse school and neighborhood imaginable.
We sat in the same schools, never heard of "diversity" or "multiculturalism" and could even figure out for ourselves how to talk with each other without the political correctness police.
The best way to learn "tolerance"? Simple. Don't make an issue of our "differences" to begin with!
"Experts" on diversity and multiculturalism would then be forced to do something really productive, like get real jobs.

This is a big concern for me, too! I think that it is due to the fact that I'm just now beginning to realize that there is such a thing as Anglo privilege (not to say that all Anglos are racists or anything- nothing like that, but Anglos do tend to be born into better conditions; again- that's not their fault; and they ought not be ashamed of their race in any matter), and also because race is involved in poverty, friendships, abortion, and all sorts of things. It's amazing how race affects abortion, and how poverty affects racial relations.

Like you, I've always had several races around me (well, actually just three, but still...) and my state (New Mexico) is supremely anti-racism. The area that I live in has a lot of racism, but the state has always been so proud of its mixed ethnicities. We consider ourselves like a little country with our own unique culture, which is a blend of Hispanic (Spanish/Mexican, Native American (primarily Navajo, but there are lots of others, too), and Anglo cultures.

Are things different in other states (apparently Kansas)?

Vannah: Just for the record, "Anglo" isn't a catch-all term for white people. Anglos have English heritage; people whose ancestors were Irish, Scottish, Welsh, German, French, Belgian, Polish, Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Dutch, Russian, Lithuanian, Danish, et cetera are not Anglos.

But, yes, main point noted. :) The women of color are probably too busy working and raising children to show up.

Marauder, 5:03PM

Spare me. White women don't work and raise children?

Ours are not lives of luxury with women of color ministering to our every need.
My grandmother and great grandmother scrubbed other women's floors and care for other women's children.

My mother and sister worked or their children would not have eaten.

I worked and raised children, often times crying from exhaustion and frustration.

I didn't work because it was glamorous or exciting, nor does any white woman I know.

I resented often the fact I had to work while my tax dollars supported both white and non white women who produced children they took no responsiblity for.

Anglos aren't filthy and rich; the race as a whole tends to have privilege in the sense that it has lower gang numbers, more young adults applying for college, et cetera. It's not that they're evil and work for fun, like Mary said.

It's very interesting to note that most people who live in poverty (unfortunately, poverty is much higher among Native Americans, African Americans, and Hispanics- sad day) aren't politically active. That is changing- people are growing a voice, and that makes me wildly happy. However, I've yet to meet a single impoverished individual (and, yes, this is incredibly embarrassing to just randomly admit, but I do know this from experience because I live in poverty) who honestly supports Planned Parenthood.

There seems to be this consensus that they are absolutely beloved- pro-choice individuals lay out the old rhetoric: this and that. "You can't judge a woman in poverty's choice."

But they don't get it. It's not like that. Trust me. It's a shameful feeling that those women carry- they aren't doing this casually to "express their rights" and pro-choicers so often make this about. This is like stealing food because you're hungry. You hate it. And you hate those who glorify it. It's a matter of respect- I can't explain it. It's as though being poor has its own mindset and pro-choicers just don't understand it, sadly. If only they did...

Vannah,

Have you noticed that most of these are demographic groups that support the Democrats?
Perhaps they should stop, as supporting Democrats hasn't gotten them very far in life.

It is sort of bizarre- Democrats support things like differences in immigration laws (which I don't know how you feel about that, but I am all for reform) and tend to have the image of being one with the people. Republicans aren't against the people, they're just unfortunately pegged like that though it's not true or remotely fair. I think that it ultimately depends on the individual.

Most of the people I know, for example- and that includes a very broad (mostly broad) demographic of Hispanics and Native Americans- supported McCain and Palin. It's up to the individual.

Mary, it was a joke, hon. I might have done a bad job of getting it across, but it was supposed to be a comment on the fact that these look like, by and large, a bunch of white, privileged college girls who have the time to do this sort of thing. Trust me, I don't think white women live lives of luxury. I'm about half a shade darker than Helena Bonham Carter and a woman of color has yet to show up to minister to my needs. ;)

The girls? Oh my. They are a little chunky and not real candidates for pregnancy. We used to call them bridesmaids. They are envious of little ladies that get married and bare children.

Why would you say any of this? I'm a "little lady," does that make my opinions and beliefs any more valid than any other woman's? I certainly don't think so. And I have certainly seen many of my heavier friends get married. What an unnecessarily cruel thing to say.

Marauder,

Thank you for clarifying that. I was reminded of the comment that was made I believe by olympic runner Wilma Rudolph, that white women work for fun and black women work because they have to.
However I'm a little uncomfortable with the "white privileged college girls" comment just as I am uncomfortable about the comments about their personal appearance made by another poster, which I view as sexist.

Maybe they're not white privileged college girls but women struggling in low income parttime jobs and yes possibly supporting children. I see a disparity of ages. Sometimes we're a little too quick to look at people and jump to conclusions about their lives.

And Alexandra I agree, they may not be raving beauties but the relevance of that is what?
Not candidates for pregnancy? The poster knows for a fact none of these women are now or have never been pregnant?

Whatever I don't see a very big crowd. Maybe that's because there's so little support by women of any color or economic status.

The main goal in abortion is to kill off the family. Children die, women and men suffer. Relationships end. Why wouldn't most gays or lesbians jump on the pro-abort bandwagon? They're just like pro aborts in many ways. Sex to pleasure themselves. No kids. A high rate of moral dysfunction all the way across the board.

Hey Bystander isn't easy being pro-choice when you're not the one being killed? You must be an Obama loving liberal!

This is teed up too perfectly to pass on. Maybe many of the pro aborts have been lost to abortion, or are at a post abortion healing retreat.
God heal this nation! Abortion is murder. Babies are a gift. Pray for life!

Anonymous (Bystander?),

Maybe they work there. :(

Sorry, no anonymous posts allowed. Please choose a moniker if you wish to post.