Saturday: Aurora Officials Anarchy Day

fence%203.bmpI've never known a city government to commit anarchy against itself, but now there's Aurora.

City officials have ignored their own ordinances and zoning requirements to allow liar and thug Planned Parenthood to settle in after weaseling in, creating havoc and lowering property values. That was a great idea.

fence%201.bmpSo when I found out Dominick/Safeway's temporary permit for its hideous temporary chain link ghetto fence expires tomorrow, I thought not to expect Aurora officials to suddenly become law-abiding and demand they tear down that see-through wall.

Dominick's has owned a vacant lot across from the new PP mill for several years but suddenly erected the fence 9 days after PP's opening.

But wait, there's more anarchy to behold, on a grander scale....

Not content overthrow city law, Aurora officials have felt feisty enough to take on the U.S. Constitution.

Tomorrow, 9-10:30a, is the monthly protest at PP Aurora, an opportunity for Aurora police to once again use the First Amendment as target practice in their attempts to silence pro-lifers.

You'll recall that at last month's protest police went so far as to interrogate and threaten to arrest a man for praying while walking his baby on a sidewalk across the street from PP as his wife participated in the protest.

earl.jpg

I think some who attend the protest tomorrow should change their minds about protesting after they arrive and instead walk up and down the sidewalk praying.

With a video camera.


Comments:

Aurora's going to turn into a big dump and they will wonder why. Sure, let's make rules that we won't follow, what briliant people!

Posted by: rosie at December 14, 2007 5:44 PM


yawn. The obsession with one little health clinic continues.

Posted by: hal at December 14, 2007 6:26 PM


Hal,
You are missing the point...yet again. In Aurora, it's not just about an abortion clinic, it's about the way a city can make rules and ordinances and follow them or not follow them depending on which way the fart blows in the wind that day.

I think I'm going to call rent-a-fence tomorrow, and demand that thier illegal fence be taken down. I know about 200+ people that will take it down for free!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 7:16 PM


and then the fence comes down and what? Abortions stop? I don't think so.

boy you guys are rigid.

Posted by: hal at December 14, 2007 7:43 PM


Again, Hal..missing the point. The kingdom of Aurora, ruled by King Tom & Queen Alayne, make up the rules as they go along.
(sorry...almost forgot court jester Powell) oops!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 7:49 PM


Off topic but I just have to share.

At times I am a little dyslexic. AB Laura, when I read your post, The kingdom of Aurora I thought I read "The kindergarten of Aurora" Now how appropriate is that. :)

Posted by: Charles at December 14, 2007 8:18 PM


Wow. A lot of permits seem to be expiring this week; tomorrow the fence, and on Monday the occupancy permit. I wonder what will happen in the "The kindergarten of Aurora"

Posted by: Charles at December 14, 2007 8:20 PM


LOL, Charles!
It does, at times, feel like kindergarten in Aurora! I can just hear it now...Tom & Alayne..."But I don't want to play by the rules" "I don't want to share"...."my dog ate my documents" (stamping feet, pounding fists...)

ahhhhh, Aurora!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 8:26 PM


Actually, the fence went up on the night of Oct 11th. Which means the expiration of this permit was at midnight on Dec 10. Therefore, the fence has been up 64 days and counting.

Posted by: Charles at December 14, 2007 8:38 PM


Charles,
I wonder if we took down the illegal fence, if it would be illegal for us to do so? Or do two negatives equal a postitive?

Is the landscape/snow fence still up in front/back of the "trees of life"? It's always too dark when I pass by to see anything!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 8:46 PM



yawn. The obsession with one little health clinic continues.

Posted by: hal at December 14, 2007 6:26 PM

Yeah, why is the Aurora city council willing to do all this for this clinic? Why is it so important to them to have a large new facility in their town just so they can have the privilege of all the hassle without collecting the tax revenue?

Posted by: hippie at December 14, 2007 9:09 PM


Why is it so important to them to have a large new facility in their town just so they can have the privilege of all the hassle without collecting the tax revenue?

Posted by: hippie at December 14, 2007 9:09 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gee, using that logic, maybe we should get rid of all those churches, too.
They generate no revenue, and they don't even provide a valuable service like Planned Parenthood does.

Posted by: Laura at December 14, 2007 9:14 PM


Laura,

I know a lot of churches that provide valuable services to the community. Maybe if you actually went to one, you would know that too.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 14, 2007 9:21 PM


Laura,

No, no valuable services at a church (LOL)...eternal life invaluable? I think not!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 9:23 PM


Oh, and Laura...you wouldn't know logic if it came up and bit you in the ass!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 9:25 PM


AB Laura said "No, no valuable services at a church (LOL)...eternal life invaluable? I think not!"

Now that funny... can i get a cheap pap smear at your church laura? or how about cheap birth control? Can I call and ask your church any sexual or "girl question" like "I am only spotting a little with my period... I know my BC can sometimes cause light periods, but should I worry about being pregnant" I'm sorry but I don't consider "eternal life" to really be a "service"

Posted by: JM at December 14, 2007 9:36 PM


Laura,

Do churches typically draw crowds of protest at their location and at city council? Do residents typically sue the city because there is a new church? Do business owners typically file complaints over churches? And does city council avoid public hearings when a church applies for permits? And do churches create for profit subsidiaries to avoid putting their own name on the permit application so lowly clerks won't know what is going on?

Posted by: Anonymous at December 14, 2007 9:39 PM


"Do churches typically draw crowds of protest at their location and at city council?"

I'm sure some do, perhaps a "cult" of some sort.

Posted by: JM at December 14, 2007 9:47 PM


So I am officially DONE with school for a month and a half people! WOOOOOO HOOOOOO!!! Finally done for this semester..now I only have a million and a half more semesters to go until I get my degree haha!

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 14, 2007 9:55 PM


Elizabeth,

YAY!! Congrats!! I know how good of a feeling that is. I remember one semester when i finished I felt so lost because I literally had nothing I NEEDED to do. It was such a strange feeling that I can not describe. I felt like I should be doing something, but literally did not have anything to do.

Posted by: JM at December 14, 2007 9:58 PM


PS: Any idea when The Hills starts up again. :) ;)

Posted by: JM at December 14, 2007 9:59 PM


I think in January maybe. haha I can actually get caught up on all my shows and movies I've wanted to see over break. YAY me! Ohh..and I can upload pics to my myspace that are months old lol..I'm such a dork.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 14, 2007 10:04 PM


Elizabeth,

No myspace for me, just facebook. Any good movies you're going to watch? I am looking for a few good ones myself.

Posted by: JM at December 14, 2007 10:07 PM


I have wanted to see "Children of Men" with Clive Owen in it for a while. I love Clive Owen.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 14, 2007 10:09 PM


JM,

I don't have facebook anymore for a variety of reasons..mainly cause I have stalkers on there..and I have people who hack into my account and send obscene messages to my friends..only not people..just one person..who gets his kicks out of harrassing me even when I don't make him pay child support. THAT'S how much I want him to leave us alone..I don't even go after him for that..and he hacks into my facebook account. Sheesh I tell ya. lol.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 14, 2007 10:17 PM


JM,
Did you ever hear of a "church service"? Funny they way you pick apart posts and then put them in some sort of twisted order for your own amusement. I now see why you were laughing.

I encourage you to use a dictionary when you read my posts. It may be an invaluable "service" to you.

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 10:21 PM


Yes AB Laura I have heard of a church service. My parents go to a church service every sunday. I am sorry i offended you.

Posted by: JM at December 14, 2007 10:28 PM


you didn't offend me, JM. So no apologies necessary. But I appreciate the thought.

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 10:35 PM


Laura,

Do churches typically draw crowds of protest at their location and at city council? Do residents typically sue the city because there is a new church? Do business owners typically file complaints over churches? And does city council avoid public hearings when a church applies for permits? And do churches create for profit subsidiaries to avoid putting their own name on the permit application so lowly clerks won't know what is going on?

Posted by: Anonymous at December 14, 2007 9:39 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually none of those things "typically" happen when a church or a Planned Parenthood goes in. It's just when you're dealing with frothing godbots that mosques or Planned Parenthood clinics or tattoo parlors or bars get all kinds of static.
10 shopping/baking/cleaning days left, and you guys can't think of anything better to do?

Posted by: Laura at December 14, 2007 10:45 PM


There's always time to save babies and help out pregnant moms, Laura.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 14, 2007 10:50 PM


Laura,
It's called "prioritizing"

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 10:50 PM


If the guy was cruising the baby around, I hope he was praying with his eyes open.

Doug

Posted by: Doug at December 14, 2007 10:53 PM


I helped my mom wrap presents today.... i actually wrapped all her presents... probably almost 75... argh

Posted by: JM at December 14, 2007 10:54 PM


Doug,
Don't worry! There were MANY police officers there to protect him!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 14, 2007 11:02 PM


Seems to me that if anyone lives in Aurora, Il and actually cares about ugly fences, they should attend their city council meetings and voice their concerns rather that posting on an anti-choice blog. Does Jill live in Aurora? I thought that she was a Peorian.

Posted by: Sally at December 15, 2007 12:49 AM


Well, Jill whines about "anarchy," when the fence was put up to keep people from trespassaing.

Gee, maybe if you criminals would stay off other people's property, there would be no reason for the fence.

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 1:36 AM


Sally,

Seems to me that if anyone lives in Aurora, Il and actually cares about ugly fences, they should attend their city council meetings and voice their concerns rather that posting on an anti-choice blog. Does Jill live in Aurora? I thought that she was a Peorian.

I know this Aurora thing has been going on for awhile but do you actually read the articles...
We do go to the meetings. There were 60 us at the last one. But they won't let us in, and when they do let us in, they don't let us talk. Only so many can get up and then they have a time limit...

Posted by: mk at December 15, 2007 6:17 AM


PP Aurora. solution - MOAB.


Posted by: jasper at December 15, 2007 8:44 AM


Gee, maybe if you criminals would stay off other people's property, there would be no reason for the fence.

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 1:36 AM********** The criminals are inside the property.

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 8:55 AM


Let's see...

Jasper wants to bomb, and Heather thinks there are criminals inside the building.

Maybe you two should look up the definition of "criminal."

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 9:15 AM


We do go to the meetings. There were 60 us at the last one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Really? How many people went to the clinic in that time?
(People LIKE having the clinic...)

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 9:18 AM


Why do you think pro lifers aren't going to stop protesting? It's because the abortion industry is being exposed for all of the dirty little things it's been doing. Killing is first. Molesting and raping women is next. Most of these abortionists are "strung out" on drugs. A coping mechanism, I imagine. We know what you're about. We want it stopped.

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 9:18 AM


Down to just one protest a month, eh?

Posted by: tp at December 15, 2007 9:20 AM


Let's see...

Jasper wants to bomb, and Heather thinks there are criminals inside the building.

Maybe you two should look up the definition of "criminal."

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 9:15 AM**************** There is plenty of evidence to back my claim.

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 9:20 AM


Abortionists who rape women aren't criminals?

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 9:21 AM


Abortionists who rape women aren't criminals?

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 9:21 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Podiatrists who rape women are criminals.
Trash collectors who rape women are criminals.
Nurses who rape women are criminals.

Fortunately, there's no reason to believe that there are any criminals in the Planned Parenthood clinic...

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 10:39 AM


Most of these abortionists are "strung out" on drugs. A coping mechanism, I imagine. We know what you're about. We want it stopped.

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 9:18 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Really? You've got something to back that up?

Google "nurse drug addicts." THAT'S an eye opener...

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 10:42 AM


Laura,when are you going to just openly admit that PP and all abortion clinics do nothing but deceive women, prey on their vulnerability and couldn't care less about them. It's all about money money money. It always has been, and always will be.

The situation in Kansas is the best thing that ever happened to the pro-life position. It's exposing your beloved abortion industry for what it is. The secrets are out, the industry is caving in on itself and it's all just a matter of time.

Quit deluding yourelf.

Posted by: Mike at December 15, 2007 11:47 AM


Hey guys!!! I couldn't wait to get back from the Aurora rally today to share the GREAT news!!! A couple that was going in today to have their baby aborted decided NOT to! They acutally talked to the sidewalk counselors & told them! While many of us were picketing along New York Street, this GREAT NEWS was announced.

Praise God!!!!
What a wonderful day!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 15, 2007 11:58 AM


Laura,when are you going to just openly admit that PP and all abortion clinics do nothing but deceive women, prey on their vulnerability and couldn't care less about them. It's all about money money money. It always has been, and always will be.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When are you going to realize that American women WANT access to abortion, fought for the right to legal abortion, and are more than happy to pay good money for the privledge?
I realize that this will break your little Socialist heart, but the reason abortion clinics exist is because there is a big market for them. Americans want them.
How many people attend those silly little anti-choice demonstrations in Aurora? Compare that with the number of people who will stride into that shiny, new Planned Parenthood clinic this year.
The people have spoken. They have voted with their feet. You lost.

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 12:02 PM


Laura,
Not many go to the Aurora PP clinic. There was a guy at the prolife rally today that spent many years in front of one lonely abortionists clinic. He said that the #'s of clients are about equal, if not a bit less at the PP Aurora facility.

But then again, you wouldn't know that because you do not live in Aurora, nor do care. However, if I'm wrong, please cite a source as to the number of actual clinic goers in comparison to people in pro-life attendance. I sure would be interested on where you get your ill-informed information from!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 15, 2007 12:08 PM


Laura,

Actually the low cost of abortion helps a lot. Studies have shown that demand goes down as price goes up, just like any other service. As for people voting with their feet, those most committed to keeping abortion legal are losing numbers because they have fewer kids.

Has anyone read The Empty Cradle by Philip Longman? He seems to be pretty antireligion. I was looking for info on stock market projections when I ran into an article with a reference to the book.

"Longman’s greatest fear is a revival of fundamentalism, which he defines broadly as any movement that relies on ancient myth and legend, whether religious or not, “to oppose modern, liberal, and commercial values.” Religious traditionalists tend to have large families (relatively speaking). Secular modernists do not. Longman’s fear is that, over time, Western secular liberals will shrink as a portion of world population while, at home and abroad, traditionalists will flourish. To counter this, and to solve the larger demographic-economic crisis, Longman offers some very thoughtful proposals for encouraging Americans to have more children. Substantial tax relief for parents is the foundation of his plan."

Posted by: Anonymous at December 15, 2007 12:15 PM


When are you going to realize that American women WANT access to abortion

...............................................................................................

Let's not forget how much men want abortion.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 15, 2007 12:20 PM


Let's not forget how much men want abortion.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 15, 2007 12:20 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

COOL! That means that even MORE Americans are getting what they want.
Is this a great place or WHAT!

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 12:24 PM


Laura said, "How many people attend those silly little anti-choice demonstrations in Aurora? Compare that with the number of people who will stride into that shiny, new Planned Parenthood clinic this year.
The people have spoken. They have voted with their feet. You lost."

-----------------

still waiting on that source, Laura!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 15, 2007 12:32 PM


Laura, how many abortions have you REALLY had? Also, you're comments are loosing steam. Abortionists are crack heads.

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 1:20 PM


losing [above post]

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 1:20 PM


Really? You've got something to back that up?

Google "nurse drug addicts." THAT'S an eye opener...

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 10:42 AM************* here's a quarter. call someone who cares.

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 1:22 PM


Let's not forget how much men want abortion.

Let's not forget that for pro-choicers, it isn't about what the man wants, but rather about a woman having the right to determine what happens to her body.

Posted by: Ray at December 15, 2007 1:24 PM


The criminals are inside the property.

There are criminals on Dominicks' vacant lot?

Posted by: Ray Koltys at December 15, 2007 1:26 PM


Hey, Heather!

Did you read my good news 11:58 post?

It was awesome! (not the post..the "save"!)

Posted by: AB Laura at December 15, 2007 1:31 PM


AB Laura, that is EXCELLENT news!! Just read that!

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 1:32 PM


Heather,
Yes, when I heard it over the megaphone, it sent chills up & down my spine and brought tears to my eyes. They said the couple was smiling when they spoke of keeping their baby!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 15, 2007 1:34 PM


Let's not forget how much men want abortion.

Let's not forget that for pro-choicers, it isn't about what the man wants, but rather about a woman having the right to determine what happens to her body.

Posted by: Ray at December 15, 2007 1:24 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray, abortion is usually about 2 irresponsible people who choose to have sex. PC men love abortion, because it enables them to walk away from their responsibility. Women often do it to please men. Eventually, their relationship crumbles.

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 1:36 PM


Ray, did your wife or g/f ever have an abortion? Anyone close to you?

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 1:56 PM


Google "nurse drug addicts." THAT'S an eye opener************* Actually, this year I thought I would decorate my Christmas tree with Xanax bars. I will do this after I get totally intoxicated on booze.

Posted by: heather at December 15, 2007 2:07 PM


Most of these abortionists are "strung out" on drugs.

LMAO

Posted by: Doug at December 15, 2007 3:44 PM


Jasper: PP Aurora. solution - MOAB.

I don't get the "bomb" reference....

Okay, now I do, since I have the massive resources of Google at my speedy fingertips.

Anyway, I thought of Moab, Utah, one of my favorite areas on earth. Tell you what - southern Utah has more cool stuff to see in a fairly concentrated area than any place else on the planet, IMO.

Anyway, despite all the hang-wringing, I reckon Aurora will be just fine, and let's hear it for the Borealis!

Doug

Posted by: Doug at December 15, 2007 3:49 PM


Ab Laura, GREAT news..i'm really glad to hear this because I could not attend with my daughter because we JUST got better from the stomach flu. I didn't want us to get sick again before Christmas..but that is so GREAT to hear! Thank you for sharing!

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 15, 2007 4:43 PM


Elizabeth,
I'm sure it will be posted on Eric's site, soon. He also brought it up in the closing speech.

I'm sorry you & your lovely child were sick & I'm glad you guys are feeling better.

I think they had 4 deathscorts there today. It was a joke...all male, wearing volunteer vests, and they never left their "post". They just stood there looking pretty stupid, IMO!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 15, 2007 5:11 PM


I think they had 4 deathscorts there today. It was a joke...all male, wearing volunteer vests, and they never left their "post". They just stood there looking pretty stupid, IMO!

Posted by: AB Laura at December 15, 2007 5:11 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why was the fact that they were male bother you?
If they looked stupid standing at their posts, how stupid did you look wandering aimlessly down the street?

Posted by: Laura at December 15, 2007 5:54 PM


Ray, abortion is usually about 2 irresponsible people who choose to have sex. PC men love abortion, because it enables them to walk away from their responsibility.

But mainly, it allows women to walk away from unwanted responsibility. Men can't force women to have abortions.

Women often do it to please men. Eventually, their relationship crumbles.

In which case, women are usually grateful they had abortions. Better to abort a pregnancy with an irresponsible loser than to have a CHILD which has to be supported and raised for 18 years with an irresponsible loser.

Posted by: tp at December 15, 2007 6:09 PM


Laura,
I'll tell you what...I'll gladly answer your question after you answer my 20 or so previous ones to you...deal?

Posted by: AB Laura at December 15, 2007 7:22 PM


"The criminals are inside the property." -heather

Dominick's has owned a vacant lot across from the new PP mill for several years but suddenly erected the fence 9 days after PP's opening.

My local Safeway lost half my grocery order on delivery one time. But criminal? That's a bit harsh, dontcha think?

But seriously, what's the big deal about a private property owner protecting their private property? If a property owner does not want protesters on their land, that's there choice.

Posted by: anonymous at December 15, 2007 8:49 PM


"PC men love abortion, because it enables them to walk away from their responsibility."

I utterly resent that statement, for multiple reasons.

1)It isnt the man's choice, whether the man is PC or not, it is still up to the WOMAN what she wants to do. She may do whatever she so chooses. Arguing the man will pressure her is arguing uner coulds, ifs, etc. It ultimately is left for the woman to decide.

and 2) In general (there are always exceptions to any rule) PC guys (least the ones I have come across; your experiences may be different) arent scumbags. They would stay with the girl either way, and support her and her deciscion to the best of their ability.

I am a pro choice man who would stay with any woman he got pregnant, no matter what her choice ended bup being. And as I said, I am no rarity in the experience I've had.

To completely generalize PC guys as a group of people who force abortions on women is ridiculous. PC guys aren't pro choice because they can walk away, any guy could most likely get away with walking away at anytime, PC or PL, if they wanted to. The justice system is bogged down already by so many deadbeat dads its near impossible to track or catch them all.

As a rule, PC guys are PC for the exact same reason women are, so that a woman can have reproductive choice.

Posted by: Dan at December 15, 2007 10:46 PM


I thought this was mildly appropriate and/or amusing.

http://www.despair.com/propaganda.html

Posted by: Rae at December 15, 2007 11:33 PM


Sally,

Seems to me that if anyone lives in Aurora, Il and actually cares about ugly fences, they should attend their city council meetings and voice their concerns rather that posting on an anti-choice blog. Does Jill live in Aurora? I thought that she was a Peorian.

I know this Aurora thing has been going on for awhile but do you actually read the articles...
We do go to the meetings. There were 60 us at the last one. But they won't let us in, and when they do let us in, they don't let us talk. Only so many can get up and then they have a time limit...

Posted by: mk at December 15, 2007 6:17 AM
..............................................

What is your actual complaint over the fencing? You don't like the looks of it? Have you all inundated Dominick/Safeway with your concerns over ugly fencing? It is private property. They shouldn't have to be concerned over protesters from across the street, parking or loitering on their property. Using up valuable resources to hire additional security, call in law enforcement and tow trucks.

What are your city council's procedures for the public addressing the council? Are you required to submit an agenda, buy a lottery ticket? What?

Posted by: Sally at December 16, 2007 12:45 AM


Heather: "Ray, abortion is usually about 2 irresponsible people who choose to have sex. PC men love abortion, because it enables them to walk away from their responsibility. Women often do it to please men. Eventually, their relationship crumbles."

amen Heather! you're exactly right.

TP:"Better to abort a pregnancy with an irresponsible loser than to have a CHILD which has to be supported and raised for 18 years with an irresponsible loser."

I see, blame and execute the baby because the father is a jerk.

Laura: "If they looked stupid standing at their posts, how stupid did you look wandering aimlessly down the street?"

Laura, it's called standing up for the weakest among us, something you just can't or refuse to understand.

Dan:"As a rule, PC guys are PC for the exact same reason women are, so that a woman can have reproductive choice."

maybe in fantasy land, not in real-life situations Dan. Almost every woman I know who had an abortion was forced in some way by the man. Although you may stand by your women Dan (i believe you), many pro-choice men I came accross would not. I also hope you would stand by your unborn son or daughter.

"They shouldn't have to be concerned over protesters from across the street, parking or loitering on their property. Using up valuable resources to hire additional security, call in law enforcement and tow trucks."

Sally, I get a kick out of you. We're in the misdt of a holocaust where unborn children are being slaughtered and you're worried about loitering.

Posted by: jasper at December 16, 2007 2:05 AM


Almost every woman I know who had an abortion was forced in some way by the man.

Posted by: jasper at December 16, 2007 2:05 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Really? With the exception of the guys who slipped their girlfriends RU-486, that's NEVER happened.
Women have abortions because they want them.

Posted by: Laura at December 16, 2007 2:16 AM


Laura,

not the ones I've known, in one case I know the woman had an abortion on her own.

Posted by: jasper at December 16, 2007 9:05 AM


In which case, women are usually grateful they had abortions. Better to abort a pregnancy with an irresponsible loser than to have a CHILD which has to be supported and raised for 18 years with an irresponsible loser.

Posted by: tp at December 15, 2007 6:09 PM ---------------------------------------------------- Why was she sleeping with the irresponsible loser. Sad. I know lots of cases like this.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 9:07 AM


Wander aimlessly? No. We will carry signs of dead babies, and we will expose the truth about abortion. We WANDER for a cause that we believe in.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 9:14 AM


Actually, wouldn't that make her a loser as well?

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 9:15 AM


Most of these abortionists are "strung out" on drugs.

LMAO

Posted by: Doug at December 15, 2007 3:44 PM ------------------------------------------------ Why thank you, Doug!

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 9:29 AM


Actually, wouldn't that make her a loser as well?

Heather,

This is not necessarily true. I personally believe that the reason women fall for guys who are losers through and through is for the exact same reason, women tend to be good, nurturing mothers. It's because we want to save them, help them, heal these men in some way. In the same way we tend to take care of and nurture our children. The thing that makes women great mothers also contributes to our downfall when it comes to men. It is unfortunate. I don't think it makes these women losers though. Misguided, yes, people with low self-esteem, YES..but losers..probably not. That is just my opinion on the situation, though....at least from my own personal experiences.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 16, 2007 9:30 AM


Elizabeth, Good point! I agree that can be the case.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 9:38 AM


It is sad that women cheapen themselves today. Have you ever met women who actually chase men? Men who have already used them for sex, that is. If they only knew that these men were so "over them." It was only about sex for the man. Women tend to fall in love.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 9:46 AM


Posted by: tp at December 15, 2007 6:09 PM ---------------------------------------------------- Why was she sleeping with the irresponsible loser. Sad. I know lots of cases like this.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 9:07 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Like your first child's father?(How many baby-daddies have you racked-up?)

Posted by: Laura at December 16, 2007 11:14 AM


1000000000000000

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 11:17 AM


It's my choice to have as many baby daddy as I choose.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 11:23 AM


Laura,

not the ones I've known, in one case I know the woman had an abortion on her own.

Posted by: jasper at December 16, 2007 9:05 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gee, what sort of guns were used to force these women to have abortions?
I bet they marched on in, jumped up on that table, and gave the go-ahead!

Posted by: Laura at December 16, 2007 12:13 PM


Laura,

You act as though PHYSICAL force is the only one that can be construed to be force..when really it's not. You can emotionally and mentally force someone to do something just as easily as you can drag them into the abortion clinic kicking and screaming. Manipulation is a funny thing that way. You should know, you try to manipulate conversations all the time.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 16, 2007 12:49 PM


Dan

"As a rule, PC guys are PC for the exact same reason women are, so that a woman can have reproductive choice."

Posted by: Dan at December 15, 2007 10:46 PM

And he sure is relieved when she "chooses" the abortion he wants her to have and asks her to have because he doesn't want to marry her, and support her and his baby.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 16, 2007 2:34 PM


And he sure is relieved when she "chooses" the abortion he wants her to have and asks her to have because he doesn't want to marry her, and support her and his baby.


Posted by: Anonymous at December 16, 2007 2:34 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, if he wants her to have an abortion and she chooses to have one, what's the problem?

Posted by: Laura at December 16, 2007 3:13 PM


Well, if he wants her to have an abortion and she chooses to have one, what's the problem?

Posted by: Laura at December 16, 2007 3:13 PM----------------------- The problem is that she's a loser.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 10:02 PM


Haha Heather, I love you, you're so to the point..and I would like to add that having an abortion WON'T stop her from being a loser..it will just continue to perpetuate the behavior.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 16, 2007 10:44 PM


Elizabeth, I can't help but to be blunt. Some of these pro aborts are so blinded. I'm tired of answering their stupid questions. What's left to say, and what the heck do they hope to hear? Abortion is murder, and abortionists are murderers. ...Have a nice life. [[Please note, I did say SOME PCers}}

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 10:50 PM


Elizabeth, my above statement is directed at PC ers.....Not @ you.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 10:52 PM


Elizabeth, thanks, BTW.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 10:54 PM


Elizabeth, I know of so many women who repeat the pattern. Abortion is not a responsible choice. Women who believe it to be are lying to themselves.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 10:57 PM


Yes, Heather..well women lie to themselves about a lot of things.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 16, 2007 11:05 PM


I understand how you feel heather..answering the same questions over and over again does get tiresome.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 16, 2007 11:07 PM


The lie, there, is pretending that "abortion is not a responsible choice." Sometimes it most certainly is.

Posted by: Doug at December 17, 2007 10:12 AM


The lie is pretending that killing a baby is being responsible.

Killing innocent babies is not responsible.

Expediency doesn't equal morality.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 17, 2007 10:46 AM



Elizabeth, I know of so many women who repeat the pattern. Abortion is not a responsible choice. Women who believe it to be are lying to themselves.

Posted by: heather at December 16, 2007 10:57 PM

There is a big difference between financial responsiblility and moral responsibility. You can be financially conservative and morally irresponsible, for example killing your baby instead of providing for him. Costs less to kill him but is morally wrong.

Posted by: Anonymous at December 17, 2007 10:50 AM


You guys keep saying abortion is "morally wrong" as if it was a fact. There is nothing immoral about abortion.

Posted by: Hal at December 17, 2007 11:02 AM


Killing someone because you don't want them to live is immoral.

Posted by: hippie at December 17, 2007 11:25 AM


Hippie, then the question is when is it really a them.

Doug

Posted by: Doug at December 17, 2007 11:29 AM


" There is nothing immoral about abortion. "

well now there is the central, definitive, categorical question isnt it. the question here is morality and our relationship to God. are we good stewards and protection to those who are most vulnerable or are these terminated for our convenience and expediency. we may kick around the identical arguments as we do on this niche blog all day each and every day but until we answer this central question we are accomplishing nothing at all. those on each side of the debate will not change their positions. we might as well be debating the levels of nitrogen required to be present in the soil in order to grow succulent tomatoes. what are the moral consequences of abortion and are we prepared to accept these consequences in light of our impending judgment before a just Redeemer. all else is window dressing.

Posted by: roger at December 17, 2007 11:45 AM


I guess we just disagree. Just remember, no matter how many times you state "abortion is wrong/murder, etc." it's still just your opinion.

Many, many others believe government interfernce with a decision to terminate a pregnancy is immoral.

Posted by: Hal at December 17, 2007 3:40 PM


Well, Hal, what makes that immoral then? What is the reasoning behind that to make it immoral? Because I've heard you say that several times but no reasoning behind it so I'm just curious. The government tells us PLENTY what we can/can not do..so why would the decision to terminate a pregnancy be any different? I mean, people can't even smoke near the OUTSIDE of a building for crying out loud..but I don't hear everybody in an uproar about that. That's taking away of certain people's human rights..WHERE'S the outrage there? Or maybe people are only outraged when they choose to be. People only think it's okay to take away rights when it's "popular" with them.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 17, 2007 9:59 PM


Elizabeth, with most stuff the gov't does in that realm, there isn't significant disagreement with it, i.e. pretty much everybody wants it that way.

As far as taking away the freedom that women have in the matter, there obviously would be significant disagreement.

With most things we feel there should be something provable as far as reasoning and motivation, stuff we all or pretty much all can agree upon, and further restricting abortion, let alone making it illegal, isn't there at all.

Doug

Posted by: Doug at December 17, 2007 10:21 PM


The lie is pretending that killing a baby is being responsible.

Your opinion, which, of course, may not mean much to a given pregnant woman, nor should it.
......

Killing innocent babies is not responsible.

It's not "responsible" to pretend that saying "babies" is meaningful argument.
......

Expediency doesn't equal morality.

Your morality and opinion of what is expedient or not need not mean anything. Your desire for her not to have an abortion does not trump the desire of a woman to end a pregnancy.

Posted by: Doug at December 17, 2007 10:25 PM


Doug,

Well that is your opinion on the matter. I think I know quite a few who would disagree with you though. But oh well..it's late..I'm tired and going to bed. I just wrapped all of baby's Christmas presents..it's going to take her about 2 days to open them all though..and she'll probably like the boxes more.

Posted by: Elizabeth at December 17, 2007 10:48 PM


"Well, Hal, what makes that immoral then? What is the reasoning behind that to make it immoral? "

One of the most basic rights we have as Americans is the right to be left alone from the government. Sure, the government tells us what we can and can't do all the time ( too much of the time most of us would say), but still we have some basic rights.

If, like most of us believe, abortion isn't hurting anyone, then it is wrong to prevent a pregnant woman from having one. If, as some of you believe, abortion is murder, then I understand your argument for making it illegal. Even in thst case, however, I think the harm of making it illegal is worse (since people will still have them). You can't say the same for most other crimes. There is no real harm in making DUI illegal, just benefit (even though people will still drive drunk). Some day, very few people will get pregnant by accident, through better birth control and sex education. Then abortion will be very rare.

Posted by: Hal at December 18, 2007 9:18 AM


"Some day, very few people will get pregnant by accident, through better birth control and sex education. Then abortion will be very rare."

Haha, I'm sorry..but I just found this TOO hilarious. Yeah right.

People are still going to rape and murder other people regardless of it being illegal so why don't we just make ALL that legal? Maybe that would take the stigma off of it and reduce the numbers?

If my logic sounds ludicrous to you, do not be surprised, I was merely using your's.


Posted by: Elizabeth at December 18, 2007 9:36 AM


Well, Jill can rest easy now, knowing that her column is upsetting enough to the bortheads and baby killers that they come here and spend their time spamming on her comment section. That's proof that she is getting to them.

Posted by: Doyle at December 18, 2007 5:30 PM


Nope, not "spamming." There are pro-lifers for that.

Posted by: Doug at December 22, 2007 8:53 AM