Buy a "gorgeous" coat hanger pendant

Yesterday ClinicEscort bragged on Twitter about her fashionable, new coat hanger pendant...

coat hanger necklace clinic escort.png

The link describes the coat hanger pendant as "gorgeous and touching"...

coat hanger necklace model.jpg

I thought the coat hanger was supposed to symbolize death, so I'm not getting how coat hanger jewelry is "gorgeous and touching." I guess the pro-life equivalent would be aborted baby photos, but I've never heard them described as "gorgeous and touching."

I guess that's just the pro-abort, pro-death mentality.

BTW, it appears the DC Abortion Fund is no longer hawking the gorgeous and touching coat hanger pendant as a fundraising gimmick. This was just apparently a special holiday offer.

So interested parties will have to find another source, sorry.


Comments:

WOW! How neat...I can't wait till they complete their whole line with the beautiful sterling silver tampon necklace followed by the 14k gold condom necklace. You can pair it with your diamond studded IUD earrings. I think their charm bracelet is beautiful! The charms include forceps, scalpel, and suction tubing. The whole set is fabulous!

Posted by: Sydney M. at January 13, 2010 2:48 PM


You can still find them for sale, but they cost $34.95. Precious Feet at Heritage House go for $4.95. Price gouging much?

Posted by: Keli Hu at January 13, 2010 3:04 PM


it;s UGLY and looks STUPID.Not to mention perpetuating the lie of the thousands of back alley abortions that killed women and covering up the fact that legal abortions kill and injure women too. Wouldn't pay 50 cents for it.

Posted by: Chrysalis at January 13, 2010 3:24 PM


....Words fail me.

"it;s UGLY and looks STUPID.Not to mention perpetuating the lie of the thousands of back alley abortions that killed women and covering up the fact that legal abortions kill and injure women too. Wouldn't pay 50 cents for it."

I couldn't agree more, Chrysalis.

Posted by: Jane at January 13, 2010 3:28 PM


Wow. Just, wow. I wonder if they'll start a formal religion around it, and have it hanging over an altar, somewhere...

Posted by: Paladin at January 13, 2010 3:29 PM


Charming.

I suppose if you own a chain of dry cleaners you would wear it.

Posted by: Cranky Catholic at January 13, 2010 3:35 PM


Um, the bracelets are beautiful and touching because they serve as a statement AGAINST the deaths of women, not for. Your blatant stupidity never ceases to amaze me, Jill Stanek.

Posted by: ProChoiceGal at January 13, 2010 3:37 PM


Are you trying to say that back alley abortions are a fabrication? I'm sorry many women had illegal abortions and many died. Many were also hurt by them, my aunt being one. I'm tired of the idea that there are women going around having sex, getting pregnant, and just throwing babies away, it's ridiculous. I am by no means for abortions...I came close and couldn't do it, but I will not stop anyone from having that right.

Posted by: Manager at January 13, 2010 3:45 PM


Typical. Prettying-up death for their cause. Strangely, though, prettying-up a death that they usually refer to as horribly gruesome... They must be losing support if they're grabbing at straws like this.

On an unrelated note, Baby Thomas was born at 11:15pm on 01/10/10 in an unmedicated birth. 7lbs 15oz and healthy! His big brother is excited and helpful!

Posted by: MaryRose at January 13, 2010 3:46 PM


Congratulations, MaryRose!! :)

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 13, 2010 3:48 PM


ProChoiceGal,

How bout an RU 486 bobble pendant that represents all the women who died after taking this "safe" abortion pill?

I bet it would be beautiful and touching too.

Posted by: Sandy at January 13, 2010 3:50 PM


I once read an interview with Sarah Weddington(Waddington? The lawyer who used Norma)and she was on a flight wearing a button with a hanger with a big red line through it.
The flight attendant asked her why she didn't like hangers.

Manager,
Yes. Women are having sex, getting pregnant and instead of just "throwing their babies away" they are going to abortion clinics and paying an abortionist to rip their babies apart and suction them out of their bodies. To the tune of 4,000 a day in the US.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 13, 2010 3:52 PM


Thanks, Carla!

Posted by: MaryRose at January 13, 2010 3:55 PM


How many desperate women took hangers to themselves?? How many desperate women will continue to do desperate things to themselves regardless of the law??

The number of back alley abortion deaths was completely fabricated. Read Bernard Nathanson. Former abortionist and founder of NARAL. They inflated the numbers to garner public support when in actuality the number of deaths by illegal abortion in 1972 was going down.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 13, 2010 3:56 PM


"I will not stop anyone from having that right."

You will not stop anyone from the "right" to kill an innocent child in the womb? Please explain how any rational person can come to such a stance.

BTW, the "back alley" abortions stories from the 1970's and 80's are steeped in exaggeration and outright lies. Do some research. Did "back alley" abortions occur? Yes they did but in much less numbers than what was originally reported. Keep in mind that any death that did occur from "back alley" abortions, is on the hands of the "pro-choice" person who did the procedure.

Posted by: psalm at January 13, 2010 3:56 PM


UGH - SICK AND TWISTED PEOPLE!
The idea of a hanger hanging from my neck is like me wearing a nuse in the South! Just does not seem right! UGH

Posted by: jennifer at January 13, 2010 3:58 PM


"I'm tired of the idea that there are women going around having sex, getting pregnant, and just throwing babies away, it's ridiculous."
Posted by: Manager at January 13, 2010 3:45 PM

Seriously? Have you looked at the stats on women who abort? These stats proves that it is women who are going around and having sex, getting pregnant and then yes...throwing their babies away.

Who do you think are having abortions?

Posted by: Sandy at January 13, 2010 3:58 PM


@Manager: I don't think anyone's denying that women did die from botched back-alley abortions. However, the numbers were outrageously exaggerated (fabricated, really), as Bernard Nathanson himself admitted.

Posted by: Courtney at January 13, 2010 4:03 PM


Whether the numbers were fabricated or not many were hurt or died. It's not always a simple decision to do it, as I know a few women who have. As I said...I don't support it for myself, but if a woman chooses to do that I cannot stop her. Sure many women use that right in a way that isn't responsible, but it IS a hard decision for many women also. It is not my business to try to sway them one way or another. I also feel sorry for many kids that are born to these parents who don't care about them and put them through bad situations; like the toddler that died last year because her mom was selling her for money to men. I suppose that is justifiable though, as long as she didn't abort her.

I will say again I don't like it at all. I would never get one or talk anyone else into getting one. Nevertheless it is a right many have voted in. Don't judge all because of a few...

Posted by: Manager at January 13, 2010 4:06 PM


Manager: "I will not stop anyone from having that right."

What right? We don't allow parents to throw their newborns out of the house in the middle of a blizzard, so why do we allow the expulsion of a mentally equivilant preborn into an even more hostile location? Don't parents have the right to own and regulate their property?

Posted by: Oliver at January 13, 2010 4:08 PM


Manager...I couldn't smother my son but I wouldn't stop anybody else from having the right to do that. I mean why stop at abortion? You could apply your statement to many scenarios.

Why couldn't you do it? Why couldn't you abort? What stopped you? If its not the murder of a child then why didn't you? If it is the murder of a child and that stopped you then why do you condone it for others?

Posted by: Sydney M. at January 13, 2010 4:09 PM


What a waste of perfectly nice silver.

Posted by: Phillymiss at January 13, 2010 4:15 PM


Manager: "Nevertheless it is a right many have voted in"

When did we vote for this?

Posted by: Oliver at January 13, 2010 4:17 PM


As I said...I don't support it for myself, but if a woman chooses to do that I cannot stop her.

Manager, why don't you support it for yourself?

Posted by: bethany Author Profile Page at January 13, 2010 4:39 PM


Oops, I see Sydney already asked the same question.

Posted by: bethany Author Profile Page at January 13, 2010 4:40 PM


The good Catholic women of means, in my old neighborhood, didn't need to resort to tacky clothes hangers. They just had a "D&C" which was far less messy. That's what my mom had and it was the best decision of her life because she lived to continue with a very successful career. The D&C was quite popular in the 40's when there was a rash of unplanned pregnancies involving servicemen on leave. When I had a little problem, I used a turkey baster. It actually works quite well and it worked out for me because I continued my education and didn't need to bear the offspring of a complete psychotic. But some of my friends used less savory methods and ended up with serious health problems (douching with chemicals not good!). But I assume that you Jesus types would say that these women were sinners who deserved what they got. Or were they just silly women who didn't know what they were doing. It does get so confusing....

Posted by: Artemis at January 13, 2010 5:20 PM


Manager,

Like others, I am going to ask why don't you support abortion for yourself? We are trying to get you to see the illogical nature of your argument.

What would you say to me if I told you I don't personally support slavery but I won't stop others from "choosing" to have slaves?

"Nevertheless it is a right many have voted in"

If by many you mean a handful of people on the supreme court, then you are correct. It was once legal to own salves. Did that make it right?

You only have a valid "choice" to kill an unborn child if there is nothing wrong with killing an unborn child. That's the burden you must overcome morally and logically before you can tell me that a women has a "right" to an abortion.

Posted by: p at January 13, 2010 5:21 PM


Forgot to note that a hanger pendant is as silly as the little feet that pro-lifers wear as bling. When I first saw a fetus feet pin on a guy's lapel, I thought he was into surfing!

Posted by: Artemis at January 13, 2010 5:22 PM


Manager,

Like others, I am going to ask why don't you support abortion for yourself? We are trying to get you to see the illogical nature of your argument.

What would you say to me if I told you I don't personally support slavery but I won't stop others from "choosing" to have slaves?

"Nevertheless it is a right many have voted in"

If by many you mean a handful of people on the supreme court, then you are correct. It was once legal to own slaves. Did that make it right?

You only have a valid "choice" to kill an unborn child if there is nothing wrong with killing an unborn child. That's the burden you must overcome morally and logically before you can tell me that a women has a "right" to an abortion.

Posted by: psalm at January 13, 2010 5:24 PM


"You only have a valid "choice" to kill an unborn child if there is nothing wrong with killing an unborn child."

What part of not all religions agree that abortion is "murder" don't you understand. And as good conservatives, why can't you grasp the notion that a person's body is their property. Slavery involved the limitation of rights on a "post born" person. "Personhood" for a fetus is not universally agreed upon and which states that the rights of a fetus supercede that of the woman (incubator?) who is carrying it.

Posted by: Artemis at January 13, 2010 5:28 PM


@Artemis:

You are making the fatal mistake of characterizing the pro-life movement as an exclusively religious one. It is not an exclusively religious issue. It is a civil rights issue, a human rights issue, a legal issue, a political issue, and a personal issue.

As far as so-called-personhood goes, what exactly constitutes personhood? What differentiates persons from non-persons? And--regardless of whatever criteria you pick--why is that criteria valid or relevant to the discussion at hand?

Posted by: Keli Hu at January 13, 2010 5:38 PM


Artemis: "What part of not all religions agree that abortion is "murder" don't you understand"

I didn't mention anything about religion. My argument is valid without appealing to religion. do I need all religions to agree that stealing is wrong? Silly argument.

"Personhood" for a fetus is not universally agreed upon"

Seems to me that if we don't know for sure, we ought not kill it. I see the bushes moving in the distance. It could be a deer or it could be a fellow hunter. Do I shoot? As long as we are going to be skeptical, the skeptical argument actually supports the pro-life condition. If you don't know for sure, don't shoot!

When does personhood begin ?

Matters of a moral nature are not dependent on universal agreement to make a truth claim.

Posted by: psalm at January 13, 2010 5:40 PM


a) When I see a hanger I think "dry cleaners" or fashion, not abortion, so I think it is an ineffective advertisement for abortion. If I hadn't heard about it here, I wouldn't have known what it was for.

b) it is completely sick to be so proud of abortion to wear anything as a symbol. OTOH the baby feet pins are adorable. Now I WILL have to get some.

c)loved the flight attendant's comments "why do you hate hangers?" for the button.

Posted by: Denise at January 13, 2010 5:44 PM


Artemis "why can't you grasp the notion that a person's body is their property"

And why doesn't this apply to an unborn child?

The state can and does have regulations as to what you can do to your body or to that of another. I would argue that dismembering an unborn child in the womb should be one of those things that should be regulated/ outlawed.

Posted by: psalm at January 13, 2010 5:45 PM


Jill Stanek gets it wrong: film at eleven!

The pendants remains available to monthly donors to the DC Abortion Fund. Just wanted to set the record straight, for the benefit of those who may find this page via Google while looking for silver pendants. You'd be amazed how hard it is to find sturdy, well-made ones like this, so your little blog provides a valuable service to the pro-choice community. Thanks for that! (I'm so grateful, in fact, I'm not even going to call you out for *yet another* Creative Commons intellectual property violation in posting my photograph without proper attribution. You seem to have a real problem with that sort of thing, though: might want to brush up a little bit?)

Looking forward to next time you steal something from my Twitter stream to serve up to your crazy-eyed readers alongside a heaping entree of WTF. About next week, if current trends hold? See you then!

Posted by: @ClinicEscort at January 13, 2010 5:47 PM


Artemis,

Wow. Was abortion legal when you and your friends opted to "take care of it on your own"?
Not sure what era you are referring to. I know women continue this type of self abortion even today.

So glad your mother was able to continue her successful career. Ever wonder if that could have been you she decided to get rid of?

So glad you were able to continue your education at the expense of your baby.

I don't have much sympathy for women who choose abortion, especially when they get inured by trying to perform a medical procedure on themselves.

Why would you get intimate with a complete psychotic? Were you or your friends using any form of birth control? I know it is just all so "confusing"

Posted by: Sandy at January 13, 2010 5:50 PM


Posted by: MaryRose at January 13, 2010 3:55 PM
----

Congratulations MaryRose - he's beautiful!

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at January 13, 2010 5:50 PM



"serve up to your crazy-eyed readers alongside a heaping entree of WTF"

ClinicEscort,

You see the arguments on here against abortion. They are logical and informed. Would you care to defend your position by engaging in a logical and rational discussion about abortion?

Posted by: psalm at January 13, 2010 5:51 PM


My wife saw it and commented - it's just indicates who's willing to be taken to the cleaners by the abortionists!

Either that or they're okay with Planned Parenthood money laundering....

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at January 13, 2010 5:53 PM


Posted by: @ClinicEscort at January 13, 2010 5:47 PM
-------

ClinicEscort - legally the discussion centers on the photo you posted. U.S.C. 17 Sec.107 is pretty explicit about fair use of copyrighted works when it comes to educational/factual purposes. You can go here for the discussion.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html


Make sure you don't miss the part where it explains:

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.

In other words, if there is no way to discuss the newsworthy item under question (which is depicted in the photo) then the subject is factual, and the use is considered fair.

Actually, from a copyright standpoint, there is little to no latitude in the depiction of a wire coat hanger (regardless of size), so copyright itself on the hanger is questionable to start.

I could cite the numerous cases, but you might find the one regarding the bumblebee jewelry most applicable.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at January 13, 2010 6:10 PM


Needs some 'diamonds and rust' and dried blood.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at January 13, 2010 6:25 PM


Artemis:

Just get off our website and go to some cold-blooded abortionist website.

I have been a supporter of unborn human rights for 38 years now and people like you have always made me feel very sick. You are a very ill human being who has little regard for human life and you show the dark side of human nature, the very cruel and ruthless side, the side that has made human history such a tragedy.

You are also a criminal who has helped take the lives of hundreds of your fellow human beings by being a deathscort. I don't give a damn if you are an abortionist bigot and therefore consider human beings in the unborn stage to be subhuman. We are all human beings throughout our lives and it is and always has been a crime to kill us at any time.

Be glad we don't (yet) live in a just society. In such a society people like you would get life in prison for aiding and abetting so much destruction of the lives of innocent and helpless human beings.

Damn you to hell for the evil that you are doing.

Jill, can we get this one permanently off this site? Everything she writes is stomach turning to anyone with an ounce of human decency.

Posted by: Joe at January 13, 2010 6:25 PM


well the clinic escorts are the most hardened of all the proaborts, after the abortionist

They are there to make sure a woman makes it into that clinic without having her heart touched.

They are brutal and barbaric - I've been punched, kicked, cursed, knocked down. I know what these people are like. Sugary sweet to the abortion victim but a bag of hammers otherwise.

The last thing they want you to hear is how you are carrying a precious baby, how there are people who care about you and can help.

The coat hanger is a lie - a myth concocted by the rabid feminists to promote the legalization of abortion and currently used in the hopes of retaining that legalization. It's presented as a symbol of struggle and emancipation but in reality it is a total lie.

Therefore, wearing one IMO, simply indicates that the person has bought into this lie. Their actions are lies. They speak lies. They will tell a woman any lie just to get her inside the clinic. The coat hanger is a very appropriate symbol for a death escort to wear. It's a symbol of her dishonesty, lack of integrity and possibly her own disintegration (since many of these "escorts" have themselves had abortions).

Posted by: angel at January 13, 2010 6:28 PM


Joe, you must NEVER EVER curse another person - especially wishing them damnation.

I understand the strength of your feelings but we should want no one to end up in hell

What we want is their repentance and change of heart.

When a soul goes to Hell, Satan wins. :(

Posted by: angel at January 13, 2010 6:33 PM


Joe,

Thanks for your many years of support for the truth!

I understand your frustration but I would rather engage these people intellectually rather than banning them from posting. The truth is on our side. The pro-abort position is illogical and immoral. Opening the eyes of pro-aborts to the flawed thinking that is inherent to their cause through intellectual discussion is one way to make a difference.

Many won't see the light immediately but the hope is that eventually they will.

God Bless

Posted by: psalm at January 13, 2010 6:36 PM


"Looking forward to next time you steal something from my Twitter stream to serve up.."

umm, sorry but Twitter is a social network. Don't want stuff "stolen" don't tweet. Or maybe I should have said, Don't brag.

Posted by: angel at January 13, 2010 6:47 PM


"Whether the numbers were fabricated or not many were hurt or died."

Many are hurt and killed by 'back alley abortions' regardless of it being legal and available. People die undergoing the procedure, legally and "safe"ly. People drinking underage get hurt and die all the time. Should we make drinking available to those 14 year olds too? People get hurt and die overdosing on cocaine. Maybe we should make that legal.

" also feel sorry for many kids that are born to these parents who don't care about them and put them through bad situations"

We do too. But we don't think it's worth killing them for. A normal person would remove those kids from their bad situations and put them in a better one. Would you rather euthanize them like ferrel dogs?

"like the toddler that died last year because her mom was selling her for money to men."

I doubt you would get anything but outrage at this mom. I'm not sure where you are coming from. Abortion is legal. This stuff still happens. Did you expect abortion to be the cure-all for bad parenting? If you haven't noticed, I think our parenting skills these days are worse than before.

"I suppose that is justifiable though, as long as she didn't abort her."

Completely illogical.

"I will say again I don't like it at all. I would never get one or talk anyone else into getting one."

Why not? Are you saying there might actually be a moral dilemma that faces women contemplating abortion?

"Don't judge all because of a few..."

I would ask you the same, considering your accusation that we are okay with people who abuse their children.

I wonder why everyone thinks that only the religious are against abortion. Like right and wrong are only a Christian notion. I suppose only Christians oppose torture, human rights abuses, the death penalty, etc too, right? Or is it that there might actually be a common, nation-wide sense of morality that plays into these issues, that a lot of pro-choicers fail to recognize?

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 13, 2010 6:51 PM


Posted by: Artemis at January 13, 2010 5:20 PM

1. But I assume that you Jesus types would say that these women were sinners who deserved what they got.

2. Or were they just silly women who didn't know what they were doing.

3. It does get so confusing....

------------------------------------------------

1. Not exactly.

If you attempt to murder someone, particularly your own child and the plan backfires and and the law of unintended consequences kicks in and you end up injuring or killing yourself as well then, hey 'stuff happens'.

Some crystal rubbing new agers might call it karma.

Or as the familiar colloquialism goes, "What goes around come around."
or

Prov 26:27 Whoever digs a pit [for another man's feet] shall fall into it himself, and he who rolls a stone [up a height to do mischief], it will return upon him. [Ps 7:15,16; 9:15; 10:2; 57:6; Prov 28:10; Eccl 10:8.] AMP

2. If some prenant woman is probing around her own uterus with a coathanger I would conclude she knows exactly what she is doing.

Necessity is the 'mother' of invention if mom doesn't choose to kill it first.

She might be grossly incompetent, but so are some of todays licensed abortionists.

3. This is only confusing to stupid people who 'choose' confusion.

I do have some sympathy for pregant women who are so desperate they would risk their own life and health to evade the consequences of their
'choices'.

Desperation has caused me do some pretty stupid things.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at January 13, 2010 6:53 PM


Posted by: @ClinicEscort at January 13, 2010 5:47 PM

(I'm so grateful, in fact, I'm not even going to call you out for *yet another* Creative Commons intellectual property violation in posting my photograph without proper attribution.)

---------------------------------------------------

Deathscort,

Show us the copy right or registered trademark and then we will give your complaint any and all the serious consideration it deserves.

It ain't 'art' yet.

You gonna have to decorate it with some 'diamonds and rust' and dried blood and a 'death date' so you can remember to celebrate the day you killed your own kid.

Have a nice day! :)

yor bro ken


Posted by: kbhvac at January 13, 2010 7:02 PM


Sydney,
I hope I can borrow your charm bracelet sometime!!
It sounds gorgeous and touching!! Not to mention lovely, fabulous and beeyootiful!! :P

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 13, 2010 7:46 PM


Hey, Pretty in Pink. How goes?

I've lately tried ignoring ignorant people. I usually say something that is anti-Gandhi Behavior that I regret later. It's best to ignore them and let them see their own bigotry. :)

Posted by: Vannah at January 13, 2010 7:49 PM


Hey Vannah. I'm okay- trying to survive school and all that. I try to do the same which is why I'm mostly just lurking around here and there but it's so sad when I see people making the same bigoted judgments over and over again with no reply. It's hard to take sometimes.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 13, 2010 8:03 PM


And as good conservatives, why can't you grasp the notion that a person's body is their property.

We grasp that but you don't.

Let me explain, the little arms and legs torn up with the suction machine in an abortion are the property of the baby to whom those arms and legs belong. No one has a right to remove those body parts any more than they have the right to take a machete to my arms and legs.

When you recognize that an unborn baby is a person with the right to his/her own body, you'll see how hipocritical that argument is.

Posted by: Jacqueline Christine Harvey at January 13, 2010 8:07 PM


Pretty in Pink,

I hear you. :|

How is your New Year going?

Mine started very well: AVATAR!

The past two days, however, have been horrific because of what happened in Haiti. :(

Posted by: Vannah at January 13, 2010 8:32 PM


@Ken:
Show us the copy right or registered trademark and then we will give your complaint any and all the serious consideration it deserves.

Creative Commons copyrights are a perfectly legal and valid method of reserving some rights to a copyright holder and declaring what those rights are. If you will click through to the page to which this post refers and look to the right, about two-thirds of the way down the page under "Additional Information" you will find the copyright information you just asked for.

Of course, the fact that that link was provided in the original post thus satisfying any and all requirements for attribution (and providing all the original context on top of that) makes the whole claim of lack of attribution totally wrong to start off with, but that is another point.

Posted by: Keli Hu at January 13, 2010 8:36 PM


PiP, Jacqueline, hi! Missed you!

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at January 13, 2010 9:06 PM


LOL Chris Arsenault!!! Way to tell her!!! They think they are so smart but when I read the pro-abort posts I literally hear "WAHH! WAHHH! WAHH!" in my head. What a bunch of whiners. seriously.

Good posts yor bro ken!

Carla...you can borrow my bracelet anytime!

MaryRose--WHAT A BEAUTIFUL BABY. My friend just had her fifth child a few days ago. 9 pounds! He is a cutie! Children are truly a gift!

Posted by: Sydney M. at January 13, 2010 10:06 PM


Posted by: Artemis at January 13, 2010 5:28 PM
-------

Artemis - the basis for calling a person's body is their flesh and blood - correct?

Please explain to us why the flesh and blood that is shredded does not have the same DNA as the mother...

And morally, if one can own flesh and blood different than their own unique DNA, how does this differ from slavery?

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at January 14, 2010 5:19 AM


What strikes me about Manager and Artemis's posts is that they obviously want to assume the worst (or their idea of the worst) about us. Personally, I think life has enough stress. If no one says, say, that horrible mothers should be allowed to keep the children they abuse, or that women who have had abortions are going to hell, I'm not going to fabricate more conflict by assuming they believe these things. I would like to hope that they don't think that. Manager and Artemis, however, seem to hope that we *do* think that. Probably because then they can dismiss us as "crazy anti-women fundies" or something along those lines.

Posted by: Marauder at January 14, 2010 2:34 PM


No one seemed to mention that wearing a cross is sort of a strange thing too in that it is "an instrument of death." It's the meaning behind it--the sacrifice and overcoming of death-- that make it make sense.

This being so, I'd still say abortion with a hanger or a suction/scapel/poison is an ugly, ugly thing. Nothing to praise at all. Abortion will never be beautiful. Why would we pride ourselves on "how far we've come"?

Posted by: Kayte at January 14, 2010 8:02 PM


Slavery was once legal and slaveowners claimed their slaves were their PROPERTY and they could DO whatever they wanted to them (beating, etc).

An unborn baby is NOT property.


Posted by: LizFromNebraska at January 14, 2010 8:42 PM


Here's a scenario for you:

Married, monogamous Christian woman using contraception that failed terminates pregnancy with her Christian husband's consent. Couple is very happy afterwards, glad they do not have a baby they do not want nor can afford to care for.

Heap condemnation on her, but this scenario is far different from what you typically describe - "foolish" people not using birth control or having random sex with anyone that breathes. In worldwide statistics, married women have 40% of terminated pregnancies. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2506899.html

Exodus 21:22 And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm [to the woman] follow; he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if any harm [to the woman] follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

This verse is plainly talking about miscarriage and the fact that "life for life" does not equate with the death of the fetus. If it did equate to the fetus, the man who caused it should've been killed, per the law, no questions asked; the if this/then that comes from damage to the actual life, THE MOTHER. Life starts at breath. The POTENTIAL for life is in the womb but as long as it cannot survive outside the womb, it can't remain alive. Adam was considered alive at his first breath, not before, by God.

I lived the aforementioned scenario. And before you start saying I am not a true Christian or will "burn in Hell" for what I've done or believe, you'd better take it up with the Creator: Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

My sister-in-law was pressured to keep her unwanted pregnancy from a religious organization that promised to take care of her if she had the baby. Once she did, they disappeared. Very loving of them. She went back to them for help and they did nothing.

Pregnancies happen by birth control failure as well as youthful stupidity. When they happen, even when measures had been taken to prevent pregnancy, I am thankful that I live in a country that recognizes it is still one's personal choice to control the size of a family to the degree that only wanted babies can be born and cared for.

Posted by: ProChoice Christian at January 15, 2010 11:12 AM


Pro-Choice Christian,

You are not saved. It's not a one time event that you "do" and thereafter you can do any evil or unrepentantly support any evil you want. Abortion is the ultimate evil. So confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart is STEP ONE of a life of taking up your cross and dying to sin and self.

You may have confessed with your mouth and beleived in your heart, but it's still a narrow path. Take Matthew 7 for instance:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So when you face judgement, spouting that you confessed and believed can be greeted with the same response from Christ, if you persevere in unrepentant sin (like killing or supporting the killing of babies).

You are deceived to beleive that a mother ripping her baby apart with forceps or a suction machine is an acceptable thing that God supports. I can't imagine how you can know Jesus, who suffered and died for you and suggest that you should be able to kill your child if you don't want her. It leads me to beleive that you don't really know God and you will hear that He doesn't know you, either on the day of judgement.

Have you ever seen what happens to a baby when she is killed in an abortion? Do you really think God approves of attacking that child and tearing her apart?

It sounds like you are justifying your actions or the actions of others, or trying to retain your ability to have an abortion should you ever want one. If you have aborted in the past, you don't have to justify what is unjustifiable. There is healing in Jesus Christ- real healing and not rationalizations. If you want to be able to kill your child should you not want that child, I ask that you pray and ask the Lord how he'd feel about you killing your child for any reason.

Posted by: Jacqueline Christine Harvey at January 15, 2010 11:41 AM


ProChoice Christian,

One one. Adoption.

Put that in your conscience and smoke it. You killed your kid for financial reasons, when a perfectly acceptable option to save that child's life was on the table.

Here's a scenario for you.

A crazy mad scientist steals your born child from you. He then offers you a deal. Either he kills the kid, or he takes the kid away forever to a good happy family. You are even allowed to follow the child's life and check up on him/her every once in a while. Which do you do? You, per your actions, would kill the child. How is this Christian again?

Posted by: Oliver at January 15, 2010 12:02 PM


Salvation is by GOD'S GRACE, not MAN'S WORKS - Galatians 2:21 states Christ died in vain if there was/is anything anyone could do to gain salvation. God gives salvation to those who BELIEVE, not do works, sin or not, once they have accepted Christ. Christ covered any sins for any people, past, present, or future.

I say this not for myself but for anyone else who has done anything they feel to have been sinful. I have no guilt over anything I have done because Christ got rid of my sin, and terminating a pregnancy is not sin. I endeavor to live my life by doing His will, but even if I chose to sin and sin again until my dying day, God would take me to Heaven BECAUSE I RECEIVED HOLY SPIRIT BY BELIEVING. It is permanent, not some cat toy God dangles in front of us at His whim to take away or give as it amuses Him to.

The law stated that the death of a fetus was not punishable by death. Adam was not considered a "living soul" (nephesh ki in Hebrew, vs. a nephesh - soul without life) until he breathed. That is Biblical. A fetus is not truly alive until it is born. It may move and have various functions, but it is not what God delineates as alive until it is surviving outside of the womb.

Yes, I've seen abortion pictures. Yes, I would do it again in a second. No, I have absolutely no regrets. Adoption is not always an answer either, as it could endanger the health and life of the mother and I find it amusing that so many men are so quick to impose their beliefs on women's bodies and situations. They never take steps to prevent pregnancies by sterilizing themselves. How would they like it if I tried to impose my will on their bodies?

Posted by: ProChoice Christian at January 15, 2010 1:41 PM


Pro-choice "Christian"

You miss the fundamental portion in the salvation equation. "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38

The key word here being "repent." If you continue living your life of sin, you haven't "repented" now have you? To repent means to turn away from sin. Continuing to support the killing of innocent human beings is not turning away from sin.

Posted by: Oliver at January 15, 2010 2:13 PM


The above was me.

Posted by: Lauren at January 15, 2010 2:14 PM


"pro choice" Christian,

As a student of Theology and Philosophy at a major seminary, I have to say that you are following some warped beliefs by twisting scripture to suit your needs.

"A fetus is not truly alive until it is born"

This is one of the most disturbing statements I have heard in a long lime. The implied biological and philosophical fallacies contained in that statement are numerous. Hopefully, I will have some time this weekend to point them out. If I can't find the time, know that I will pray for your conversion of heart and intellect to the truth.

1.It is always morally wrong to intentionally kill an innocent human being.

2.Abortion is the intentional killing of an innocent human being.

3.Therefore, abortion is always morally wrong.

Do you agree with this argument? If not, what part to you disagree with and why?

Posted by: psalm at January 15, 2010 2:37 PM


"pro-choice" Christian

By faith alone (Sola Fide) and Once saved always saved are false beliefs. There are apologists out there, some with with free material (talks and written material) that thoroughly refute these false teachings.*John Martignoni comes to mind. Not only are Sola Fide and once saved always saved anti-biblical teachings, but the Apostles didn't teach them, the Fathers of the Church never taught them. You don't find these teachings until over 1500 years after the death of Christ.

This is all a smokescreen though. I don't need to appeal to religion to refute the pro-choice position. All you are doing is following your own personal interpretation of scripture to suit your needs. This isn't a theological debate. If it is, you have no authority other than yourself to tell me or anyone else what scripture "really means". Think it through my friend. You are ducking the issue by making unsubstantiated religious arguments

Posted by: psalm at January 15, 2010 2:52 PM


And, as a kicker, you will find many WOMEN here oppose abortion, such as yours truly. Who are you to impose your will (death) on an innocent woman's body (since roughly half of all children killed in abortion are female)?

Posted by: xalisae at January 15, 2010 3:27 PM


Salvation is by GOD'S GRACE, not MAN'S WORKS - Galatians 2:21 states Christ died in vain if there was/is anything anyone could do to gain salvation. God gives salvation to those who BELIEVE, not do works, sin or not, once they have accepted Christ. Christ covered any sins for any people, past, present, or future.

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. Romans 6:1

In order to receive God's grace in the first place, you must have repented and accepted his atonement for your sin. If you do not acknowledge your sins actually are sins, they can't be forgiven.
And we can know if someone is saved by their "fruits"...if they have love, joy, peace, tenderness, goodness, faith, etc...we can be sure they are in Christ. Being proud of your abortion is not love, which is the most important of all.

I say this not for myself but for anyone else who has done anything they feel to have been sinful. I have no guilt over anything I have done because Christ got rid of my sin, and terminating a pregnancy is not sin.

Yes, it certainly is. God calls children a blessing, never a burden. The Bible says that an abomination in God's eyes is "hands that are quick to shed innocent blood".

I endeavor to live my life by doing His will, but even if I chose to sin and sin again until my dying day, God would take me to Heaven BECAUSE I RECEIVED HOLY SPIRIT BY BELIEVING.

Romans 6:1

It is permanent, not some cat toy God dangles in front of us at His whim to take away or give as it amuses Him to.

Romans 6:1

The law stated that the death of a fetus was not punishable by death. Adam was not considered a "living soul" (nephesh ki in Hebrew, vs. a nephesh - soul without life) until he breathed.

Well, by that logic, no one is a human being or possesses a soul until they reach adulthood- since Adam was a grown adult before receiving the breath of life.

That is Biblical. A fetus is not truly alive until it is born. It may move and have various functions, but it is not what God delineates as alive until it is surviving outside of the womb.

Please explain Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:13-16, Luke 1:41-44, and also could you please tell me whether you think it would have been a sin for Mary to have aborted Jesus.


Yes, I've seen abortion pictures. Yes, I would do it again in a second. No, I have absolutely no regrets.

Proverbs 6:16-19
"hands that are quick to shed innocent blood"

Adoption is not always an answer either, as it could endanger the health and life of the mother and I find it amusing that so many men are so quick to impose their beliefs on women's bodies and situations.

Like you're willing to impose your beliefs on the unborn child?

They never take steps to prevent pregnancies by sterilizing themselves. How would they like it if I tried to impose my will on their bodies?

How would you like it if someone tried to impose their will on your body by tearing you apart limb from limb?

Posted by: bethany Author Profile Page at January 15, 2010 4:15 PM


BECAUSE I RECEIVED HOLY SPIRIT BY BELIEVING

You cannot receive the Holy Spirit without first repenting. Without repentance and accepting God's atonement for your sins, what really separates you from the demons who also believe in Christ?

Posted by: bethany Author Profile Page at January 15, 2010 4:22 PM


Manager.

You stated that you are not for abortion. That's great! However, you said that you will not stop anyone else from doing it. I ask you to think about replacing the word abortion with another horrible, despicable act like...

I am against child molestation, but if someone else wants to do it, then go right ahead! That's their right!!

I am against domestic violence, but if someone feels like that's the only way to get things done, well, I won't say anything. That's not my business.

Now listen to yourself...

I'm against baby killing, but if someone else doesn't want that baby in them, well, who am I to deny them that right? It's legal because the Supreme Court says so.

Being legal, does not make it right. If you're against it, then stand up and be against it! You'll find yourself much happier that you did! :)

Posted by: rose1980 at January 15, 2010 9:08 PM


Pro-choice Christian. I agree with you, if you TRULY believed and confessed your sin then you are saved. How very awful that your wickedness will turn others to hell with your blood-drenched testimony. I am saved and I cannot believe the hurt you have caused our Lord. SHAME ON YOU! If you are truly saved, do you forget that you will give an account of your life to the Lord someday? you sure don't act like it. You will weep in shame before the Lord Jesus someday. He gave HIS LIFE and BLOOD for you but you couldn't be bothered to give a little for your own child. How absolutely terrible!

If you truly are saved then you must ask yourself why you cling to your sin (abortion). Satan wants anyone who is not saved to be deceived and die and go to hell. Once you are saved he wants to ruin your testimony and effectiveness for God so that you can't win others to Christ.

And that "clever" Exodus recitation shows how LITTLE you really know about the Bible. The term "her fruit depart from her" means PRE-TERM delivery NOT miscarriage. The term "no mischief follows" means the baby is born early but survives.

So before you start spouting scripture why don't you actually READ and LEARN from the Bible and ask God to grant you WISDOM which you clearly lack.

Posted by: Sydney M. at January 15, 2010 9:39 PM


Well said, Sydney.

Posted by: bethany Author Profile Page at January 15, 2010 10:34 PM


And ya know heres a scenario for you prochoice christian--married monogamous Christian woman using contraception that failed trusted God and knew that GOD had planned this special baby despite her own plans and ideas. Married Christian woman has baby and she and her husband though very poor and young and newlyweds and just starting out in life find out that YES the Lord provides! Husband works butt of to provide for family and it all works out and little boy is the most wonderful blessing to Christian man and wife.

This is my story. My birth control pill (won't take them anymore but used them four years ago) failed and I was shocked to discover I was pregnant. My husband and I don't get to go out to dinner and take vacations and do all these things but I can honestly say the Lord has provided every need. I have always had money for diapers (haven't had to use a dish towel yet!) and we've never gone to bed with empty tummies! On top of it all I lost my job this past year and my husband's car caught fire without explanation on the highway and burned to a crisp. We bought a BRAND NEW car for a used car price (the dealers were desperate for a sale and willing to negotiate and this was before cash for clunkers!) We rent a house and the rent is cheaper than all the other houses in the area. We are blessed.

My son is 3. He is the light of my life. I love him so so so much. I can't imagine my life without him! He loves helicopters and wants to be a pilot someday. He is the apple of his grandfather's eye. He is a life. Just because he was unplanned by my husband and I does not mean he was unplanned by God or that his life has no meaning.

God gave you a gift and you threw it back in His face!

Posted by: Sydney M at January 16, 2010 9:47 AM


Great post Sydney M. As I read it reminds me of what Daddy King told Dr. Alveda King (his grand-daughter and Dr. Martin Luther King's niece) when she told him she was going to abort his grand-child (my paraphrase) "That is no blob of tissue, that's a baby, my grandbaby. We don't kill our babies in this family." AWESOME!! God bless you and your family.

Posted by: Prolifer L at January 17, 2010 4:07 PM