Interesting, I had no idea that this was even coming up in th MN House and Senate. Don't recall seeing it in the local paper.

No one does these anymore. This legislation is more right-to-lifers spinning their wheels to create the illusion of having accomplished something.

Just like the ban on "partial-birth" abortions, which has not prevented a single abortion.

But go ahead and pass a law, if it makes you feel better.

The Freedom of Choice Act is coming!

Uh, excuse me...

Saline causes second-degree burns - you'd know that if you were a nurse - and second degree burns cause redness, not CHARRING.

That is not a "candy apple baby," that fetus is covered with necrotic tissue. The fact that is was never in a chemical bath is apparent by the pattern of the discoloration.

Democrats for Life of Minnesota, a group that until now has been invisible at the Capitol, outlined a package of incentives to encourage unexpectedly pregnant women to bear children: an adoption tax credit, health insurance regulations that make it easier for pregnant women to get coverage and a state match for the federal Women, Infants and Children food program.

Looks like Minnesota democrats are actually trying to make a difference while the republicans are attempting to outlaw a rarely used procedure.

Here's a saline abortion from the bad 'ol days:
http://www.pregnantpause.org/abort/saline.jpg

Note reddened tissue from the saline bath, not blackness associated with infection - particularly Staph infection.

Oh, FF, just shut up. You have no idea what you're talking about. The above baby has obviously been dead awhile. The skin of these young ones is paper thin and very sensitive. When my 25.5 week old grandson was born, we couldn't stroke him, because his skin was so sensitive.

Charred, not charred. what kind of person ARE YOU?

You're just sick, FF. To look at 1 of these aborted babies and dispassionately argue which manner of abortion by which s/he was killed is inhuman. That's what you are.

You know, to make you happy, I'll switch the pictures out. HAPPY?!

"Democrats for Life of Minnesota, a group that until now has been invisible at the Capitol, outlined a package of incentives to encourage unexpectedly pregnant women to bear children: an adoption tax credit, health insurance regulations that make it easier for pregnant women to get coverage and a state match for the federal Women, Infants and Children food program."

@Sally: That's fantastic! I had no idea my state was doing that. I am very proud of those PL Dems! They're doing the right thing!

Jill,

After lurking here for quite a few months and only commenting a few times, I can second your opinion that FF is simply a sociopath with nothing better to do but hang out here and snicker at the pain of others. FF is a dangerous individual and I seriously think he/she should be banned from further comment.

FF adds NOTHING to the debate. Just my two cents.

You're just sick, FF. To look at 1 of these aborted babies and dispassionately argue which manner of abortion by which s/he was killed is inhuman. That's what you are.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 13, 2008 5:55 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To look at that fetus who died of infection - and might have taken Mom with him - and use that death to push your own sick, sad political agenda is inhuman.

Here's a saline abortion from the bad 'ol days:

Bad Old Days RFF?
It will always be the bad old days until abortion is outlawed.

This post with it's death pictures seems to have been a magnet for the pro death people like Laura and Dr. SoMG.
Oh well, I'm not surprised this is where they'd hang out!

Keep making it up Laura, as you go along.
I agree PajamaMama BUT then we'd be like the pro-aborts who won't debate, and try to keep everything covered in lies.
They don't like the truth, right Dr. SoMG?

FF, it's time for you to leave, you wicked evil disgusting vile pig-dog slime of a person. Go.

Jill,

After lurking here for quite a few months and only commenting a few times, I can second your opinion that FF is simply a sociopath with nothing better to do but hang out here and snicker at the pain of others. FF is a dangerous individual and I seriously think he/she should be banned from further comment.

FF adds NOTHING to the debate. Just my two cents.

I agree. All she can offer is antagonistic nonsense that is abusive and offensive.

FF, it's time for you to leave, you wicked evil disgusting vile pig-dog slime of a person. Go.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 13, 2008 6:07 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oooooooooooooooooh!
BWAHAHAHAHA!

Appropriately, your final words. Satanic wretching.

"To look at that fetus who died of infection - and might have taken Mom with him - and use that death to push your own sick, sad political agenda is inhuman."

Forgive my ignorance, but how can a fetus get an infection in utero? I thought the interior of the amniotic sac was sterile, and the only time infection becomes an issue is when the amniotic sac breaks before labor?

FF, it's time for you to leave, you wicked evil disgusting vile pig-dog slime of a person. Go.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 13, 2008 6:07 PM

Yeah Jill!!!!!!!!!

Nevermind, I looked it up in my medical microbiology text, fetuses can get infections. Who would have thought?

Go Dems for Life! Rocking it.

Darn straight PiP! :D

Oh, FF, just shut up. You have no idea what you're talking about. The above baby has obviously been dead awhile. The skin of these young ones is paper thin and very sensitive. When my 25.5 week old grandson was born, we couldn't stroke him, because his skin was so sensitive.

Charred, not charred. what kind of person ARE YOU?

You're just sick, FF. To look at 1 of these aborted babies and dispassionately argue which manner of abortion by which s/he was killed is inhuman. That's what you are.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 13, 2008 5:55 PM
..................................

How can it be that you couldn't stroke the sensitive skin of your grandson but insist upon 'comfort' care for much less developed fetii? How much pain you must have caused that 21-22 weeker by insisting on holding it. Or were you perfectly well aware that it was incapable of feeling anything?
You do contradict yourself quite a bit. As well as misrepresent facts to suit your emotional agenda. If you don't like getting called on your inconsistencies, make your blog private to only those that kiss your patooty.

"To look at that fetus who died of infection - and might have taken Mom with him - and use that death to push your own sick, sad political agenda is inhuman."

Forgive my ignorance, but how can a fetus get an infection in utero? I thought the interior of the amniotic sac was sterile, and the only time infection becomes an issue is when the amniotic sac breaks before labor?

Posted by: Ari-chan at March 13, 2008 6:12 PM
............................................

Mom's last pregnancy was in 1965. She quit feeling movement in the 7th month. She gave birth to rotting pieces. The good old days when nature was left to take it's course and abortion procedures legally unavailable.

@Sally: I double checked on it, w/o FF's help. I had a wee bit of a "senior [in college hahaha] moment" and forgot that they described prenatal infection in my medical microbiology text. :)

Jill, I will be helping you to delete FF's comments from now on for you.

I'm sorry you have been having to deal with the blog alone lately.

I shouldn't have left for so long!

You're just sick, FF. To look at 1 of these aborted babies and dispassionately argue which manner of abortion by which s/he was killed is inhuman. That's what you are.

Amen to that.

Yay! Bethany is back! :D

Yeah, Laura's gone!!!
Happy days are here again.....

Sally the situation you've described is not dealt with like that anymore or maybe never was.
If a woman does not feel movement, she is sent in for an ultra sound.
If the ultra sound shows that the baby has died, the mother is induced.
I know of at least 3 women this has happened to. Pregnancies were 7, 8 and 9 months along.

Sally, 6:39p, if I thought you were really interested in discussing the sensitive skin of preemies, I'd respond. But you're not. So either start discussing your issue here with decorum or you're welcome to leave, too.

I was speaking with Mark Crutcher of Life Dynamics today, who runs another forum. He said 100% of pro-abort women who insist on coming to pro-life blogs to antagonize are post-abortive. I agree. That is the only explanation for your repulsive behavior.

Yay! Bethany is back! :D

Aww Ari-chan...good to see you! :)

Bethany, yeah, you're back from the lost weekend thread!

*tacklehugs for Bethany*

@Jill: Isn't that thread nearly up to 3000 posts? I checked it yesterday and it was in the mid-2000's (didn't read it though...waaaaaaay too many posts to catch up on).

Ari, it's at 2,600+ right now. I finally broke down tonight and begged MK and Bethany to come back to page 1 because I missed them... :(

@Jill: :D Thanks for doing that, I missed them toooooooo. I think everybody did!

By any chance, do you know the names of the PL Dems in the Minnesota House and Senate that are trying to set up the saline abortion ban and the financial and insurance aide for pregnant women?

Ari, no I don't but perhaps you could call Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life:

http://www.mccl.org/index.htm

If you see commenter Sandy hanging out here, she's from MN, too, and you might ask her.

Jill, do you think that what Mark said about pro-abort women also applies to the men as well?

Burning the baby alive, or tearing it's limbs off one by one....it's all the same to me. Cruel, uncalled for, inhumane, unethical and SICK! How could they! How could anyone???

Censorship again Jill? And just when Jasper had gotten done assuring us you didn;t like it. You hypocritical witch.

See Jasper, no swearing or threats.

But in support of FF, I'm outta here - anyone else?

OH MY SNIKEYS!!!!! What in the heck went on here?

wicked evil disgusting vile pig-dog slime of a person.

Okay, that one's going down in the Jill Stanek history books! Laura, if you're out there, you gotta admit, that was pretty good.

Phylosopher...don't leave just yet. Give us some time to figure this out...

Good Gravy! Was I gone that long?!?!?!?!

Okay...suggestions. What can we do to make this right?

Anybody?

Well, mk, this thread wasn't half as bad as some of the postings Laura's placed on other threads.
But generally, she makes comments that are beyond the pale..

"Okay...suggestions. What can we do to make this right?"

A hippie music festival?

I'll bring the salvia peace pipes. :D

In support of FF?

You need to really get a life.

phylosopher said: "But in support of FF, I'm outta here"

Darn it... what a terrible loss! What ever will the folks on here do without you?

I've said it on my own blog - if someone comes over to your house and defecates on it, it's not "censorship" when you get the hose out and wash up the crap. Laura's posts are 99% crap, so why shouldn't Jill break out the digital garden hose and clean off her blog?

MK! ELIZABETH!! I am LEAVING tomorrow! This our last chance to make plans if we are going to do something!

Jill,

Sorry for keeping your mods away for so long, Jill. I'll let you have them back :) Thanks for letting me borrow them.

Also, on a more upbeat note, I received the book today. Thanks a lot! I"ll always cherish the note on the inside cover. God love you too, Jill.

Jill, THANK YOU FOR GETTING RID OF THAT THING! I commend you. I'd agree that should have been her final straw. I have "The Apprentice" on in my living room. "FF, you're fired." Thanks Jill [Trump] lol!;]

I can't even look at this picture. It's horrid!

I agree Laura's post's were mostly crap but also they often attacked others on here in a personal way.
This was particularly true of her treatment of Jill. Some of the comments were heinous.

Sally, 6:39p, if I thought you were really interested in discussing the sensitive skin of preemies, I'd respond. But you're not. So either start discussing your issue here with decorum or you're welcome to leave, too.

I was speaking with Mark Crutcher of Life Dynamics today, who runs another forum. He said 100% of pro-abort women who insist on coming to pro-life blogs to antagonize are post-abortive. I agree. That is the only explanation for your repulsive behavior.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 13, 2008 6:56 PM
......................................................................

Yes, Jill, you never wish to discuss any inconsistency you commit. Irresponsible. That you are.
That you run to fellow anti choicers to get your wounds licked is no surprise.
I have been studying anti choice rhetoric because I believe every bit of it to be based on ignorance and the vast majority of it based on abusive concepts.
You are an emotional abusive. If others don't FEEL the way you do, there is something wrong with them and they must be punished. You don't know much about religion but have reeled in a few spiritual abusives. If someone doesn't BELIEVE the way they do, there is something wrong with them and they must be punished.
You aren't the least bit interested in abortion. You look for constant affirmation of your emotions to feed your ego. If it wasn't abortion it would be something else you could find easy to avoid factual information about and emote over.
You are an attention seeker and care nothing about who or how you use them to get that attention.
Your little blog kingdom is falling down around your head Jill. And it is your own making.

"Good Gravy! Was I gone that long?!?!?!?"

Where do I begin...

Sally, are you for real?

Bobby you can start by responding to Sally's attack on Jill.

Does it really warrant one?

Hello Bobby. I think there still may be hope for Sally.

If we can pull her out of denial.

Anti choice rhetoric - now that's a 70's/80's term I haven't heard in a long time.

Sally,
The only side that has rhetoric is the pro-aborts. Rhetoric usually refers to effective speaking or great eloquence.
I take it that's not what you mean Sally.

If you mean the prolifers don't tell the truth, well, the pro-aborts certainly don't. Otherwise you'd be all for FULL disclosure to women who show up for abortions - Full disclosure of risks, options, complete with information about fetal development, pictures of the baby's state of development as well as a full description of EXACTLY what the abortionist will do to both patients.
Of course, the abortionist will be sure to tell the woman that at least one patient won't survive.

Then what would you like to discuss, Bobby?

Hello Patricia!

Yeah, Laura's gone!!!
Happy days are here again.....

Sally the situation you've described is not dealt with like that anymore or maybe never was.
If a woman does not feel movement, she is sent in for an ultra sound.
If the ultra sound shows that the baby has died, the mother is induced.
I know of at least 3 women this has happened to. Pregnancies were 7, 8 and 9 months along.

Posted by: Patricia at March 13, 2008 6:54 PM
..............................................................

Maybe never was? What do you think went on back in the day? Even my children were born before ultrasound. Of course not being American, you really don't know much about American health care. Women were not induced then and they are not now. That would be incredibly irresponsible medical practice if induction of labor had been available. An abortion procedure is much safer and a great deal more humane for the woman. Including D&X.

Sally,
What I found about your post that was rather curious, is that if you substitute FF's name in place of Jill's, and flip the obvious antonyms, you can certainly understand where Jill is coming from.

And honesty, I don't feel like Jill's "blog kingdom" is going down simply because FF and phylospher are leaving. That's silly, Sally (I just had to say that!!!) Do you really feel like it's the end of the blog for Jill because of these two????

Sally,
BTW...how are your kids doing in their new "kingdom"???

It's just the beginning. Actually, it will probably be much less distracting:]

Hi Heather
I am working on a citation list for a physical therapist's research paper and right about now I want to stick pins in my eyes!

Hi JLM. Patricia, LOL!

Okay...I can see that I am in the minority here.

Personally, while Laura has crossed the line a few times, and while she doesn't really have the gift of diplomacy, in her own way she has made some valid points.

BUT...I have not been the brunt of her "attacks" all that often, so I really shouldn't be the one that makes this decision. That would be Jill's place.

So, I don't what to say...yep, you heard right, I the woman ALWAYS has something to say, am at a loss for words.

I'm sorry to see her go, because she made us think. She stirred things up, and kept us from being complacent. I have a strange fondness for Laura and I'll miss her. She was always one of the first to post and while they may have been whoppers, they were never dull...

But I see your points. So whatever happens, happens.

I still like the salvia peace pipe idea tho...

Off topic, but Barack Obama's pastor has explained what "Hope" and "Change" really mean:

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/13/video-jeremiah-wright-and-god-damn-america/

Hi Heather! Hi All!

Where is Erin?

Sally,
The woman who lost her baby at 9 months did so in 1984 when I was in grad school. The others were more recent. I have never heard of ANYONE being aborted under the circumstances you describe.
For pregnancies under 4 months, the mom is always allowed to miscarry unless some complication develops (such as retained parts of the baby etc.).

Anti choice rhetoric - now that's a 70's/80's term I haven't heard in a long time.

Sally,
The only side that has rhetoric is the pro-aborts. Rhetoric usually refers to effective speaking or great eloquence.
I take it that's not what you mean Sally.

If you mean the prolifers don't tell the truth, well, the pro-aborts certainly don't. Otherwise you'd be all for FULL disclosure to women who show up for abortions - Full disclosure of risks, options, complete with information about fetal development, pictures of the baby's state of development as well as a full description of EXACTLY what the abortionist will do to both patients.
Of course, the abortionist will be sure to tell the woman that at least one patient won't survive.

Posted by: Patricia at March 13, 2008 8:57 PM

............................

Rhetoric also means insincere or grandiloquent language. Obviously the application that applies to you as well as JIll. An OB/GYN sees one patient. A woman. Children are seen by pediatricians, Why do I need to tell you this? Home schooled in Canada?

MK, maybe you could try to work with FF via e-mail. Just a thought, if you don't want to give up on her completly.??? I remember you once said you had her e-mail during the CA fires.

And I meant that sincerely.

Oh Sally you take such low blows honey!

Any ob/gyn will tell you that they have TWO patients.
BTW, my children have been homeschooled and are now in the school system. Of the 4 children I have, one will study philosophy, one was valedictorian and is maintaining a 93+ average in high school and one is a gifted pianist and violinist.
I was not fortunate to be homeschooled but I do have a B.Sc. M.Sc. and an MLIS. Oh, and they are from accredited universities - we don't have junky schools like you do in the US. There's no market for them!

Sally, when an OBGYN is seeing a pregnant woman, he/she is actually seeing 2 patients.

Jill, I will be helping you to delete FF's comments from now on for you.

I'm sorry you have been having to deal with the blog alone lately.

I shouldn't have left for so long!

Posted by: Bethany at March 13, 2008 6:49 PM
..........................................

Shame on you! You were in charge of making sure Jill got her meds and breaking knee caps. Get back to work! Lord knows the woman can't back up any of her crap. Your idol has been exposing her clay feet while you worshipers were neglectful of your worship.

Patricia, we posted at the same time.

Me thinking Sally's begging for a kick in the head!

Sally,
The woman who lost her baby at 9 months did so in 1984 when I was in grad school. The others were more recent. I have never heard of ANYONE being aborted under the circumstances you describe.
For pregnancies under 4 months, the mom is always allowed to miscarry unless some complication develops (such as retained parts of the baby etc.).

Posted by: Patricia at March 13, 2008 9:07 PM
.........................................

Allowed to miscarry? OK you are stupid beyond belief. Dead fetii are not magically miscarried. Especially not late term. Abortion is needed. Don't you pretend to be a nurse?

Censorship again Jill? And just when Jasper had gotten done assuring us you didn;t like it. You hypocritical witch.

See Jasper, no swearing or threats.

But in support of FF, I'm outta here - anyone else?

Posted by: phylosopher at March 13, 2008 8:07 PM
..................................................

After a few words to say. I've gotten all the material I need.

Okay, that does it. Kick to the head, Sally. Maybe two kicks.
My friends were induced and delivered their children stillborn. They were NOT rotting, nor where they dead fetii (I keep thinking of ET when I hear this term)

Sally, leaving? No way. Sally'll be back. Sally's addicted.

sally,

Girl it is breaking my heart that Laura is gone. I understand that in your own way you are defending her because she can't. But I have a job to do. I'm asking you, please, for my sake, just tonight, cool it.

I'm really upset about this Laura thing, and I just don't want it to spin out of control. If you push hard enough I'll have ask you to leave too, and I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT! But this whole moderator thing sucks sometimes.

So please, just for tonight?

Sally,

No, abortion is not necessarily needed. In early miscarriage there may not even be a fetus, only a sac. Its seldom that I see it necessary to intervene surgically. This may be patient preference and not necessity.
In later pregnancy, again that depends on a number of circumstances. Surgical intervention may or may not be necessary, a woman may prefer it, or she may prefer nature take its course.

Mary,
I had a friend who had the situation you described about just a sac and no baby. Her doctor called this a "misfire". I'm not kidding! Have you heard this term before?

Me thinking Sally's begging for a kick in the head!

Posted by: Patricia at March 13, 2008 9:20 PM
.............................

Nothing like making my point. You PL are nothing but abusives.
Thanks Patty!

Sally said: "You PL are nothing but abusives."

Yeah, especially mk, right? Methinks you should take mk's advice, who is being unbelievably patient and charitable with you all.

Sally,
I asked you earnestly about how your kids are doing, and you didn't answer. I was thinking about you & them the other day....

MK,

Quit ignoring me! :( Give me a yes or a no.

Patricia 9:36PM

Definitely a first.

Hey, PIP...If you're in the area, there's a PL rally on Saturday morning, 9-10:30 a.m. at New York St. and Oakhurst Dr. in Aurora at the PP abortuary! 30-45 minutes from Chicago!!!

PIP,

I'm confused. What are we talking about? Where are you going...oh blast, I'm having a "VAL" moment...

John
I read your blog post on Spitzer. Man what a total mess his situation is. I feel for his young daughters.

MK, I'll be in chicago from tomorrow til Thursday morning! Thought you me and elizabeth would get together.

JLM, I'll see what I can do, but we'd be closer to the city and our plans probably entail the parade that morning!

Sally,
What I found about your post that was rather curious, is that if you substitute FF's name in place of Jill's, and flip the obvious antonyms, you can certainly understand where Jill is coming from.

And honesty, I don't feel like Jill's "blog kingdom" is going down simply because FF and phylospher are leaving. That's silly, Sally (I just had to say that!!!) Do you really feel like it's the end of the blog for Jill because of these two????

Posted by: JLM at March 13, 2008 9:01 PM
...........................................................

Laura hasn't put up a blog and attempted to support an evil concept by wrapping it with a tangled web of ignorance, abuse, bigotry, racism and lies then tried to tell you that the package is pretty. That's Jill's gig. Laura has every right to mock Jill's ugly self.
And really. I've gotten all I need from this blog.
JIll wants to be left with her ass kissers. She will find that they become fewer and fewer. Or more and more disturbed,

PIP,
I see..forget I asked. What was I thinking!!!You can always go to a PL rally somewhere else..Now, a St. Patrick's Day bash in Chicago ??? I'd be crazy to ask you to miss THAT!!! Have a blast!!!

PIP!!!
That's right! You're coming to Chicago.

YES! YES! YES!

You have my email right? Email me ten minutes ago and I'll give you my phone number!!!! woohoooooo!

JLM, wanna meet up somewhere halfway?

Pip, where will you be staying?

Sally, are you for real?

Posted by: heather at March 13, 2008 8:48 PM
...............................

Yes I am heather. It's very sad that reality is not your friend. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. If you ever find that you possess a mind, don't waste it.

Sally,
These comments:
"Laura hasn't put up a blog and attempted to support an evil concept by wrapping it with a tangled web of ignorance, abuse, bigotry, racism and lies then tried to tell you that the package is pretty. That's Jill's gig. Laura has every right to mock Jill's ugly self."

don't even make sense.

Elizabeth, you too! JLM are you near Aurora or do you just know about it?

If you are from the Chicago area you could meet with us too, and isn't Kristin from there? And Jill?

PARTY! PARTY! PARTY!

Sally,
Were you just here because of Laura??? Did she influence your posts??? Are you nothing without her?

I had no idea that she had such power over you guys.

OH OH OH ME ME ME!

I think I'm going to the parade too! And then to the castle and the elephant. Guiness, fish and chips, a friend of mine is playing...he'll play some S & G for you...LOVES S & G...

OOOOOHHHH I'm excited!!!

JLM, Thanks! I will! ;)

MK, I will email you. I am staying with a friend that graduated from here. I am not sure exactly where she lives because she is picking me up near the airport, but pretty sure it's close to the city. I'll let you know how it develops. Look for an email in a few minutes!

I'm very excited. I already have tickets to 3 shows and a parade and a blog get together!

Awwww a big blog party!!! that would be AWESOME!

mk,
Awwww...thanks, that sounds nice...but I already have plans for this weekend. However, I'll be thinking about all of you (having a GREAT time), and I'll look forward to the afterparty post!!!

Sally,

BTW....you can TRY to leave, but I don't think your computer will let you.

While you were on vacation, it was posting away!!!

:)

Sally,
*
BTW....you can TRY to leave, but I don't think your computer will let you.
*
While you were on vacation, it was posting away!!!

okay, that was funny!

:)

mk,
workin' on the fluff!

"FF, it's time for you to leave, you wicked evil disgusting vile pig-dog slime of a person. Go."

See, I try to take the pro-life side seriously. By that, I mean I try very hard to have an open mind. But it is very hard to take this blog seriously when the owner gets like that. Just ignore her! She wants a rise out of you. You lose some credibility when you speak that way. Just putting that out there...

Oh Sally you take such low blows honey!

Any ob/gyn will tell you that they have TWO patients.
BTW, my children have been homeschooled and are now in the school system. Of the 4 children I have, one will study philosophy, one was valedictorian and is maintaining a 93+ average in high school and one is a gifted pianist and violinist.
I was not fortunate to be homeschooled but I do have a B.Sc. M.Sc. and an MLIS. Oh, and they are from accredited universities - we don't have junky schools like you do in the US. There's no market for them!

Posted by: Patricia at March 13, 2008 9:14 PM
........................................
Feeling unappreciated for your self proclaimed self importance? So sorry. OB/GYNs do not pretend to have 2 patients. No matter what your degree in library science tells you otherwise. You don't even want to get me bragging on my children's accomplishments. You beat yourself up enough.

Mk, pip...I don't think I can make it into the city or anything...since my dad's car accident there is only one car here...and my parentals need that. But umm...going to the Aurora PP rally on saturday morning? Maybe we could get some breakfast and McD's and go to the protest? Come on, McD's for breakfast you know you wanna. :)

See, I try to take the pro-life side seriously. By that, I mean I try very hard to have an open mind. But it is very hard to take this blog seriously when the owner gets like that. Just ignore her! She wants a rise out of you. You lose some credibility when you speak that way. Just putting that out there...

AM, most of the time she is ignored..but other's..she just says WAY too many horrible things to just ignore. I for one am glad she's out..while she may have been humorous and EVEN had a point or 2 at times..she is just too hateful to be around people. She needs to stick with the animals.

Jill:

Ditto on FF.

Thanks for standing up to this hell bound reprobate.

Sally,
Were you just here because of Laura??? Did she influence your posts??? Are you nothing without her?

I had no idea that she had such power over you guys.

Posted by: JLM at March 13, 2008 10:00 PM
...............

Truth always has more power than lies.

Oh snap we got Bethany, Mk, Bobby, and HisMan all up in here...rock on.

SALLY! SHUT UP!

Don't talk to Bobby like that. He has never been anything but nice to you.

Seriously, I think you just need to knock it off and leave. You're being unnecessarily cruel tonight.

The murder of an innocent is disgusting no matter the method.

For some reason this post just broke my heart.

Have we slid that far down the moral slope?

How does someone like FF become what she is? Was she abused, molested or is this just self generated hatred. Someone help me understand.

God, please help us.

Mk,
why are letting Sally's post's continue on here ?-there was no call for the one at 10:37 pm

Elizabeth :(

mk,
workin' on the fluff!

I want to have a blog party too :(

Well Sally, dearest,
It took you long enough to get back to me.

Actually it wasn't my library degree but my extensive science background and a little common sense and my experience as a mom that led me to my conclusions.

You have children? Oh,dear....

sally,

I did ask you nicely. I'm sorry it's come to this. I'm going to have to delete everything that isn't kosher from this point on. I hate it. I hate this job!!!!

"The murder of an innocent is disgusting no matter the method.

For some reason this post just broke my heart.

Have we slid that far down the moral slope?

How does someone like FF become what she is? Was she abused, molested or is this just self generated hatred. Someone help me understand.

God, please help us."

I don't think it matters what made Laura, Laura. She's gone now, I think we should just stop talking about her.

MK:

Let the ugly stuff fly. Let's expose 'em for what they are....Elliot Spitzer's in drag.

Elizabeth,

If you email me, I will give you PIPs email address, she will give you her phone number and who knows? She's here til thursday!

So is Laura gone for good though? Has she been banned?

Ari-Chan
I agree with you re: laura

Amen Ari...amen.

I take no pleasure in what has happened here tonite. I know you didn't care for the woman, but really, is the mob mentality necessary?

Considering Easter is coming up, I hope those of us that are Christians can try to show some Christian charitable love to those who are misguided and believe that killing a baby in the womb makes a woman equal to men.

Even Norma McCorvey was converted to the Pro Life side. She was Won by LOVE. I won't be posting here next week, as I give up the internet during Holy Week, but I will be praying for the end to abortion next week.

Man, so much drama happens when I go to bio lab..I can't even beeeeelieve it!

Sally...you said you were leaving,but you keep coming back.
Leave already.
Maybe you and Laura should use your venom for something useful like fighting terrorism.

Hooray ! Laura is gone. I'd love to shake the hoof of the horse that let her have it in the face. Does it have a website ?

TRue Liz
And Dr. Nathanson, who worked to establish abortion in America.

Elizabeth,

Jill wants an apology. I just don't picture Laura giving her one, so I'd say, it looks like she will be gone for good.

I do want to say tho that I think Jill misunderstood what Laura was trying to say.

She wasn't debating the method of abortion, she was challenging whether it was an abortion at all. With her usual lack of tact, but nonetheless.

She even tried to supply a picture (the one Jill changed it to) so that the discussion could continue.

I just find it ironic that of all the really tasteless posts that Laura has put up here, this one was so tame...Jill just isn't used to her.

But I get the message loud and clear. You guys are glad she is gone. I won't even bother listing the things she has been called tonite, Jills not withstanding...

I'm kind of embarrassed myself.

I just find it ironic that of all the really tasteless posts that Laura has put up here, this one was so tame...

This post was nothing compared to a posting last week, I believe. I wasn't on at the time but when I read the comments - I stopped and left the thread.
The comments by Laura were not worth even bothering about.

Mk,

I wish I could say I was sorry she was gone..but I'm really not. The truly hideous things she has said that didn't improve any sort of discussion I won't miss at all. Her blatant personal attacks should have been enough a long time ago. While I don't think censoring is a good thing at all, even when people say things we don't like, her comments were unproductive and hateful. Hate speech should not be tolerated.

"I know you didn't care for the woman, but really, is the mob mentality necessary?"

I don't think it is. I think it's generally uncalled for and dare I say, hypocritical?

Just because I don't like somebody, doesn't mean it gives me license to be cruel about somebody once they're gone.

Ari-

I do agree but we're all human..and can even act childish at times. It doesn't show our better sides but we learn from it and try to do better next time. That's all that can happen really.

@Elizabeth: I know. *sigh*

I just wish people could get along. It makes me sad to see people being mean. :(

Ari-

Me too...but that's what happens when hate gets spread. Laura certainly didn't leave a very good taste in people's mouths...so hate can only breed hate...it is a sad cycle.

Then let's stop the cycle! :D

*gets out salvia peace pipe*

Elizabeth,

I'm not having a problem with the fact that you guys prefer her gone...what's bothering me is this verbal party that's going on.

A lot of pretty ugly things have been said here tonight in the name of getting rid of someone because they say ugly things...see?

lol I do have an odd question though:

Is it like a requirement for PL guys to wear those cowboy hats or something? The guy in the quote of the day has one..and the Scheidler men wear them all the time. Do they like get together and decide to make that the official hat of the PL movement or something? Is there a meeting they have to decide which one to wear that day?

I just noticed it because of the picture and had to ask. lol.

Ari,

Give me a hit...shall we sing Kumbaya? I'll take the low harmony, you take the high?

MK,

I do understand.....she brings out the ugly in people. We should all go to confession.

I actually sing low...:)

Rae Rae, I KNEW it was you!

Nah, no confession necessary. Just hit the pipe!

Ari,

What's in this? YIKES!

Okay, it looks like the drama is over and I've got to get some sleep. I've have to buy Kevin some st paddys day boxers in the morning and two webkinz for the midgets Easter Baskets.

and whatever was in that pipe is making me *yaaaaaaaaawn* sleepy. I can hardly keep my ey...

Rae Rae, I KNEW it was you!

I'm awake...and ever so grateful that it wasn't me that let the cat out...or was I talking in my sleep.

What gave it away Elizabeth? The Shiznits?

@Elizabeth: http://www.ivescrewedup.com/

Snap, it's past my bedtime too...talk to you all laterss...mk, I will email you for pip's email tomorrow cause my brothers computer is acting all ghetto fabulous on me right now.

Laura has had some good moments though, guys. She helped me with my mouse problem! She generally treated people with respect the people who made an effort to do the same.

Elizabeth-- no time? at all? :(

PIP,
The fat lady hasn't sung yet...we have til Thursday, right?

Rae, it's good to have you back ;)

Knights all...

I'm really going to try pip!! I have school tuesdays and thursdays so those are always crazy but maybe monday or wednesday depending on what the car situation is like. Stupid drivers plowing into my dad's car while he's stopped at a stoplight. Get off your damn cell phone people! Now we have one car..and life is more complicated. I will try though!!!!

" She needs to stick with the animals."

I like animals. =(

CornhuskerLiz:

God doesn't want you sacrifice, He wants your love.

Rather than give up posting I suggest you quadruple it.

Who knows, you might actuslly affect someone.

You girls are just having too much fun.

I feel like I'e invaded a girly pajama party so I'm just going to go home.

Can I file a complaint with someone? Does Hillary care that I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel excluded? Hmmmmmmmmmm?

Shalom......

Okay elizabeth! Email MK to get my number!

Laura was right about one thing. The only thing we ever agreed on was that she was a fetus-fascist.

MK, 10:57p, said: "Jill wants an apology. I just don't picture Laura giving her one, so I'd say, it looks like she will be gone for good. I do want to say tho that I think Jill misunderstood what Laura was trying to say."

MK, to be clear, I never asked for an apology. I'm not about making people buckle. And I absolutely understood what FF/Laura was saying. This has been a long time coming. It's a culmination. A couple days ago I warned her. She didn't heed it. Tonight her callousness just finally crossed the line. She has steadfastly remained vicious to pro-lifers who have for months attempted to dialogue with her patiently. She came to this blog merely to incite, offend, and insult, not to debate and discuss.

Enough. FF/Laura is banned unless she changes her tone. If a post shows an attempt at civil discourse, which she is intelligent enough to write if she wants, she can return.

And Sally should heed the same warning.

Doug is one who gets it. And Hal. They manage to disagree and debate respectfully and rationally. When PiP was on the other side she did as well.

Speaking of PiP, hey, I live in Chicago, too! If you, MK, and Elizabeth make plans to get together, let me know when and where.

Pip, have a safe trip. In really hope you have a great time! There is lots to see in Chicago. I hope you get to meet MK and Jill.

I am wondering why you would call a D and C on a woman who miscarried an abortion? An abortion is on a live baby.
I would hate to think that all mothers who had a D and C when their babies died are thinking they had an abortion.

Ok, that was up farther up this thread. Patricia? Any thoughts?

I was speaking with Mark Crutcher of Life Dynamics today, who runs another forum. He said 100% of pro-abort women who insist on coming to pro-life blogs to antagonize are post-abortive. I agree. That is the only explanation for your repulsive behavior.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 13, 2008 6:56 PM----------------------------------------------------------- Jill, I'd missed this last night. That's very interesting. You can really just get a feel for the post abortive women here. Like Carla had explained. Lots of them become staunchly PC.

Jill,

Okay, fair enough. I haven't read the other threads and didn't realize you gotten into it before.

And I don't know why I thought I'd read that you were asking for an apology...

My booboo.

Well, what's done is done.
The ball is in Laura's court now.

Peace.

Hi Heather,
You and I had a good discussion about that. Post abortive women who do not seek any help or healing are ANGRY! There are 2 that used to be in my life that I could no longer spend time with as their rage became quite abusive and was directed at anything or anyone they disagreed with. They killed their babies through abortion and deep down they know it, but they spew their venom for the Pro Choice side. They had one so that makes it right, RIGHT?!
I do understand all of that because that was me. I was bitter and angry and it showed in my words and actions. I do have much compassion in my heart for Sally. I see through her rage to the pain. She is in denial. What makes me the most sad is that she denies her babies their personhood. She is their mommy. Their lives were short but they have meaning.
I post here to offer hope and encouragement to women who have had abortions that want help and desire peace. They may be reading and need to know that they are not alone.

Carla, here is a true story. A woman I know had an abortion many moons ago. We passed by a Planned Parenthood, and there were RTLfers protesting. She rolled down her window and screamed "Why don't you M*@=*ing people adopt a few??!!" Her blood was boiling and it took her a good hour to simmer down. ANGER? Oh yes.

Sally: If you are out there, goodbye. I don't like how you talk to some people on here, but I do like you.

Carrie, good morning. Carla, I do try my best to understand the anger. I've done things before that I was very ashamed of. It was easier to stuff the emotions. Heck, who wants to admit that they've done something wrong? Who wants to go around feeling like a bad person? The best thing to do is own that wrong action. Step up to the plate, and admit you were wrong. It sure made me feel better, and the healing began.

*peeks*

Is it safe?

Erin, I've been asking about you!! Where have you been??

Hi heather! I haven't seen you in ages! I got in a pretty bad car wreck about a month ago and between healing up from that, which left me with a broken nose, cracked ribs, and a concussion, I'm working almost 40 hours a week and trying to keep up with school. It's been absolutely brutal lately! How are you?

Hey Erin,

How goes the broken body????

Good morning all. :)

Sweet Jill! Email MK to get my number..we are really lacking solid plans right now because I have to compare schedules with my friend, but we could get together when she is at work, or something. I might also see MK at the parade!

Erin, really? Oh no! I hadn't heard. You poor dear. *feeds Erin chicken soup*

Do you have 2 black eyes?

Rae,

Get yer butt to Chicago for the parade tomorrow! Viva la Breakfast Club!

PIP,

Have you talked to your friend yet? Any idea what part of town you'll be in?

I'm going to be shopping today, but I'll be hope to get your phone call...if you guys are coming this way from the airport, I could be you somewhere near there...There is a place near Touhy and Manneheim called Tiffany'! Can't do breakfast at Tiffanys', cuz it will be too late, but we can get ICE CREAM!!!

bacon, eggs, pancakes, toast, coffee, juice. MMMMMMMMMMM!!!

@MK: I'm very tempted to drive down there tonight and visit, after all, my parents aren't expecting me home to watch the Pom until Sunday afternoon...

Veeeeeeeeery tempted.

I will actually be arriving in the afternoon, as I have a midterm in an hour :(

What's a Pom?

So we will be comparing schedules when I get in...

Rae, DO IT

Heather,
Had the same experiences with one that is no longer in my life. She would scream obscenities at the tv. She is my sister and I haven't seen her in 6 years.

@Bobby: A pomeranian. :) He's my mom's cute bundle of fluff.

@PiP: I would love to...but one half of me is saying, "Noooooo, you don't have enough money to do that..." while the other half goes, "DOOOOO IIIIIIT! IT WILL BE FUNNNNN!"

*torn*

The picture of that sweet baby is breaking my heart. I love that dark hair and that sweet face. I don't ever want to become so callous as to NOT see what a precious little one he is. What a horrible death he must have endured.
Lord, forgive us.

Amen, Carla. For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

Rae,

You know my door is open! I'll even join you guys for some of the Irish festivities...I LOVE IRISH MUSIC!!!! And I'm quite fond of beer too. If I had someone to hang with, I'd even leave the kids and hubby home...there two really awesome bashes that go on on Saturday...The Irish American Heritage Center has a St Paddys Day fest...I emailed PIP the info, and the Chicago Hilton and Towers has awesome music...I also have a friend playing at a place called the Castle and the Elephant. I know musicians at all three places...

The Hiltons guys are AMAZING! The Heritage Center is a blast. They ALL play Simon and Garfunkel!

Two are near the parade, and one is closer to my house.

Let me know!

eeep MK this is so exciting!

Heather- for a couple of weeks, I totally did! I was a huge mess. For the most part I'm better now, but I'm having to work extra hours to try and afford all the expenses that come with a car wreck (my poor bug is totaled) and catching up with school because I missed almost a full week when I was too hurt to get there. No fun at ALL.

I would definitely recommend against overcompensating for a turn and ending up driving through a fence!

Party! Too bad it isn't about two weeks from now, or I could come too! I'll be in the area taking care of my grandparents for a bit on my break at the end of March.

Erin, I agree. LOL!

Carla, I've noticed that there are 'Abortion Healing and Support Groups' being advertised in our local phone book. I'm glad to see this.

Everyone, please pray for me and my evolution midterm. I studied hard, but I'm super nervous--population genetics sucks pretty hard. I'm off...

So glad to see you back Erin. I have thought of you a lot!I hope you are healing well.
I will pray for your midterm PIP. Kinda glad it's you and not me. hee
Heather there is healing to be had and many awesome resources available. I am glad to see that in our phone book too. Under Abortion Alternatives. :)

I WANNA GO TO CHICAGO!! whine....

Shame on you! You were in charge of making sure Jill got her meds and breaking knee caps. Get back to work! Lord knows the woman can't back up any of her crap. Your idol has been exposing her clay feet while you worshipers were neglectful of your worship.

Sally, be careful. You're next on the list.

I also believe that some of the women trapped in anger and denial feel like they have no business grieving. Just a "Choice" so to speak. That's what the abortion industry does to them.

Laura hasn't put up a blog and attempted to support an evil concept by wrapping it with a tangled web of ignorance, abuse, bigotry, racism and lies then tried to tell you that the package is pretty. That's Jill's gig. Laura has every right to mock Jill's ugly self.
And really. I've gotten all I need from this blog.
JIll wants to be left with her ass kissers. She will find that they become fewer and fewer. Or more and more disturbed,

Fewer and fewer of people like you and Laura is not necessarily a bad thing. There are plenty of pro-choicers here who know how to handle adult conversation. I'm sorry you aren't one of them.

Hi Bethany!!!!!

Carla,
Your question about the D % C. Yes you are correct.
When abortion became illegal, I remember early ones were called D & C's which was greatly offensive to those women who had one for serious reasons - that is they were not pregnant and this procedure was definitely NOT an abortion.

When my mom was in middle age and I'm guessing she was going through menopause she had lot of problems. She had to have a D & C done and it was a terrible experience for her. She was put into a ward with women who had had abortions! She was furious with the nurses and requested to be moved IMMEDIATELY. She often spoke of this experience and became quite emotional about it. She simply could not fathom how ANY woman could have an abortion.
My mom had a serious incurable heart ailment but had 3 children (by caesarean) two EXACTLY a year apart. So she was not one to be unsympathetic lightly.

Hi Heather :)

Ah Bethany! I'm so glad I'm on your side again!

nice, isn't it Bobby! :)

Hi Bethany!! And hello to Rae!! :)

Heather,
So true. Why grieve a bunch of cells??!! Unless....it's a baby!!! With ultrasound pictures hung up on refrigerators across the land how long can one run from the TRUTH? A long time. I just read an article about a woman who lay dying in her 90's and how she was inconsolable after having an abortion 50 years before!

Thank you Patricia. I so appreciate your knowledge and experience!

I know that some of the pictures on this blog are of aborted babies and I try to shield them from my children. Sometimes I am not quick enough to scroll down. My 2 year old just walked by me and pointed to the picture above and said, "Baby."

How can it be that you couldn't stroke the sensitive skin of your grandson but insist upon 'comfort' care for much less developed fetii? How much pain you must have caused that 21-22 weeker by insisting on holding it. Or were you perfectly well aware that it was incapable of feeling anything?

There is a big difference in HOLDING a baby and STROKING a baby. The baby she held was indeed in pain, but it was not due to her holding it. It was due to the fact that the child was forcibly removed from the womb months before he was supposed to, and therefore laying on a shelf would have been just as painful! At the very least, Jill made sure that this baby had a HUMAN BEING to console him and love him until he died. It was more than anyone else cared to do!

Heather,
So true. Why grieve a bunch of cells??!! Unless....it's a baby!!! With ultrasound pictures hung up on refrigerators across the land how long can one run from the TRUTH? A long time. I just read an article about a woman who lay dying in her 90's and how she was inconsolable after having an abortion 50 years before!

Carla, here is a woman grieving her abortion 40 years after the fact:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=527268&in_page_id=1879

Erin,

Party! Too bad it isn't about two weeks from now, or I could come too! I'll be in the area taking care of my grandparents for a bit on my break at the end of March.
Posted by: Erin at March 14, 2008 8:36 AM

I just checked the ten commandments..nope, no commandment that says:

"thou shalt not have two parties in one month"

We can always do another one then...:)

Thanks Bethany,
I like how she wrote "with hindsight and maturity I realize I could have coped." Me too.

Also, isn't it interesting that when they had the abortion they told everyone they had a miscarriage? Why? If it's just a choice then why the shame?!

Allowed to miscarry? OK you are stupid beyond belief. Dead fetii are not magically miscarried. Especially not late term. Abortion is needed. Don't you pretend to be a nurse?

Posted by: Sally at March 13, 2008 9:21 PM

Stop. Wait.... You honestly did not just say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Yes dead fetii" are naturally miscarried!!!!

Where do you come from Sally?? Mars?

IT HAPPENS ALLLLLLL THEEEEEEEEE TIIIIIMMMMMMEEEEE

WOMEN LOSE BABIES AT ALL GESTATIONAL STAGES ON THEIR OWN. ITS CALLED NATURAL MISCARRIAGE.

LOOK IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and Erin? I'll drive.

Between parties for St Paddys day and throwing our opponents out of the ring, I have neglected to mention the actual subject of the article...

Carla, thanks for the link. I really like how you addressed the post abortive woman's "behavior." In other words, not all women will come out and say "I regret my abortion." However, their pain shows in their behavior. Drugs, drinking, promiscuity, judgemental toward everyone, self righteous,angry, and self loathing.

Sandy, 9:23, it really does show an amazing amount of ignorance on the subject when she talks that way. I think that Sally, for some odd reason, believes that her experiences are the norm and that it is simply not possible for anyone else to experience other things in other ways.

MK, I emailed you!!!

Carla,
I read about that lady in a pamphlet from the Canadian Catholic Bioethics Centre - it's about abortion grief on the deathbed.
Apparently, palliative caregivers are finding this situation is becoming more and more common.
I don't know if this was the same woman, but she was DROPPED OFF by her scumbag of a husband in the US and LEFT to have the abortion by herself. It was heartbreaking.

Also, did you know Carla, that in the 1970's there was a book written by a woman named Gartner entitled "Who broke the baby?". She came about the title because her daughter saw a picture of an aborted baby on the table and asked her mom that question!

Erin,

I am glad you are starting to feel better...we can have another blog party in 2 weeks cause I am on spring break then and it would be SO much easier to get together then! You can get my email from MK!

Sandy,
Unfortunately, Sally was raging last night. Most of her posts did not make sense and were highly provocative.

I don't know what Sally's deal is. She continues to mention the removal of a fetus that has expired in the womb. Abortion is the deliberate killing of a baby in the womb. I don't understand why she is constantly so confused.

Also, I really believe that some of these people have to be left to prayer. God is the only one who can change a heart. We can't. We can plant the seed, but some people are inherently evil. I have left friendships for this very reason. I'll pray for them, but I won't keep hitting my head into a brick wall for someone who doesn't want to change. What causes a person to become a serial killer? Could you ever reason with them and their sick minds? Could you change them? No, no, and no. However, you can pray for them.

Don't forget. Some people will be turned over to a reprobate mind.

In those weeks where saline abortions are done, there are also obviously other procedures that could be used. Are there reasons why saline abortions would be better at a gestational point or with a certain condition in the woman?

Yes, I am sure there are all kinds of ways to kill a living baby in a mother's womb.

That midterm SUCKED. I guess I won't know until I get my grade over the week...

Sorry about that, PIP. :O

I agree with Jill here...an exorcism was necessary. Laura wasn't interested in any kind of serious debate.

I also believe that some of the women trapped in anger and denial feel like they have no business grieving. Just a "Choice" so to speak. That's what the abortion industry does to them.

Posted by: heather at March 14, 2008 8:56 AM

I agree, heather. I finally expressed my anguish about my abortion to my mother and her only response was, "not every woman feels that way". Even a person who is supposed to care about the woman can let their pro-choice views get in the way of true empathy for a post-abortive mother's pain.

Ari-chan: *gets out salvia peace pipe*

Have to laugh, Ari-chan, I saw that, and my mind read "saliva peace pipe," and before I got the real deal I'd pictured weird water-pipes and odd ceremonies.

I love me some salvia - used to raise hundreds of plants a year.

Pap Taylor Gang: In those weeks where saline abortions are done, there are also obviously other procedures that could be used. Are there reasons why saline abortions would be better at a gestational point or with a certain condition in the woman?

I'm no expert, but I don't think so. In the US saline abortions pretty much are just not done anymore, regardless of the stage of gestation, far as I know.

YAY Rae & Erin!

@Doug: Right on man...duuuuude. Totally.

Yeah.

I agree with Jill here...an exorcism was necessary. Laura wasn't interested in any kind of serious debate.I agree with Jill here...an exorcism was necessary. Laura wasn't interested in any kind of serious debate.

Jasper, it's Jill's site and thus things are really up to her, but I see it as a catfight. Yes, Laura wasn't always going for serious debate, but neither is the pro-life side, i.e. there's much innuendo, straw man argument, generalizing from the particular, etc.

I've known Laura for years, and it'd be surprising for many of you here to see how funny and joyful she can be - don't know how much you ever saw that side of her.

Ah well.

Doug

Don't forget. Some people will be turned over to a reprobate mind.

Heather, I'm fixin' to turn you over, girl.

Very clever, Doug.

@Doug: I do agree with you on that other thread...people who drive slowly in the fast lane deserve being demonized.

*shakes fist at old man in the Buick inching along at the speed limit*

Hey, do I get any points for passing a cop driving the speed limit in the left lane? I mean, he was practically daring me to do it...chicken didn't even pull me over, either, but he got behind me just to give me a scare...sad to say that it worked. Then he exited the freeway and I stuck my tongue out at him.

I'm so immature.

@PajamaMama: I pass people going slow in the left lane in the right lane all the time.

My middle finger often gets a good work out during Minneapolis rush hour...seriously, people drive like *idiots* here...especially after the first snow of the year. You'd think they've never driven in snow before when it SNOWS EVERY YEAR!

*done ranting about driving*

Well, sorry to tell you that, what with me being a transplanted Texan to NY and all, I'M ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE! Can't drive in the snow. This is only my second winter outside of Texas and I still haven't gotten the hang of it. Can't wait for Spring... Can you say cabin fever?

Jasper, it's Jill's site and thus things are really up to her, but I see it as a catfight. Yes, Laura wasn't always going for serious debate, but neither is the pro-life side, i.e. there's much innuendo, straw man argument, generalizing from the particular, etc.

Posted by: Doug at March 14, 2008 2:38 PM

Doug,
How insulting to call Jill's decision to ban Laura a "catfight" It was no catfight. The majority of Laura's posts were spiteful, mean-spirited and hurtful. They were many times directed as personal attacks. She had been told many times to quit assaulting people and she failed to heed the warnings. She abused this site and used it for her own personal warped sense of sick enjoyment at the expense of others. She needed to go.

FYI Doug, I think I speak for all pro-lifers when I say we consider this blog to be a forum for serious debate about abortion and for you to insinuate otherwise is again insulting.

It's Laura's own fault if nobody got to the the funny joyful side of her. She reminds me of these monkeys at a local zoo that threw monkey crap at everyone who came by to see them. They eventually had to be removed from the zoo.

Sandy, I guess it's how you view things.

PajamaMama: Hey, do I get any points for passing a cop driving the speed limit in the left lane? I mean, he was practically daring me to do it...chicken didn't even pull me over, either, but he got behind me just to give me a scare...sad to say that it worked. Then he exited the freeway and I stuck my tongue out at him.

:: laughing :: Heck yes you get points, and not even on your license!

I'd do it to about 6 MPH over the limit.

people drive like *idiots* here

Rae, I think it was George Carlin who said that everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody that drives faster is a maniac.

Salvia - didn't know you could smoke it. I just liked it for the long-lasting color. I was crazy nuts on gardening for a while - 1998, planted over 30,000 bulbs.

Just got a clean three-year driving record in January. First time in my life. Then last Monday I got a damn ticket on my way to East Chicago, IN. Sheesh.

Sandy, I guess it's how you view things.
Posted by: Doug at March 14, 2008 5:06 PM

I agree with Sandy. Flinging crap at people isn't the best way to get people to see your charming side.

Oops, that was me above ^^

"She abused this site and used it for her own personal warped sense of sick enjoyment at the expense of others. She needed to go."

amen Sandy.

"*shakes fist at old man in the Buick inching along at the speed limit*"

why rush Rae? leave a little earlier so you can make it there on time. less stress too. My Dad use to tell me this when I was your age.

@Jasper: I do leave early... :-p I still have a leadfoot, but it's genetic, you should see my mom drive.

Rae,
Good to "see" you back!!!

:)

Thank you JLM. :)

one Laura gone, maybe ABLaura would come back now?

I agree with Sandy 100%.

"one Laura gone, maybe ABLaura would come back now? "

Yes, I wish ABLaura would return, we miss her...

I agree with Sandy 100%.

Posted by: Carrie at March 15, 2008 5:57 AM************** so do I.

I miss ABLaura too!! So come on back here! You just might be reading this right now! :)

HisMan,

I give up the Internet during the Holy Monday - Good Friday of Holy week, as a last week of Lent personal Lenten Sacrifice. I practically LIVE on the internet most of the time anyway. Plus, I can get my house cleaning done and prepare spiritually for Easter Sunday.

I'll be back posting regularly probably by the day after Easter.

Today (Sunday) I'm givin' up sobriety. Have green shirt, green tie, and a silly green hat trimmed in gold that says, "Got Beer?" It's got a handle on it, like giant beer mug.

"I've known Laura for years, and it'd be surprising for many of you here to see how funny and joyful she can be - don't know how much you ever saw that side of her."

I saw it.

Janet sent me this...

I think it sums up my philosophy on this board beautifully...Thank you Mr. Lewis.

But it is "immortals" that we joke with...

That's an awesome responsibility...dealing with immortal souls. Puts this whole blog in perspective...

You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilization—these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit—immortal horrors or everlasting splendours.

This does not mean that we are to be perpetually solemn. We must play. But our merriment must be of that kind (and it is, in fact, the merriest kind) which exists between people who have, from the outset, taken each other seriously—no flippancy, no superiority, no presumption. And our charity must be a real and costly love, with deep feeling for the sins in spite of which we love the sinner—no mere tolerance or indulgence which parodies love as flippancy parodies merriment.

"I've known Laura for years, and it'd be surprising for many of you here to see how funny and joyful she can be - don't know how much you ever saw that side of her."

I saw it.

Posted by: mk at March 16, 2008 5:51 AM********************************************************** Which Laura? FF?

I think in varying degrees we are all mixtures of rational debators, button-pushers, and lasher-outers. Laura does feel the need to lash out, at times.

Doug,
I agree with your 9:51am post! We all do push buttons and lash out at times.

But, I can honestly say that you, and many others on "the other side" have never lashed out at me personally, or said things to me that hurt me deeply. I've always appreciated you & others respect for the individual. I think you are an asset to "your side", Doug. All of us can learn so much from you and your "posting techniques".

That being said, I was following the posts that FF recently made, and I do believe she crossed the line that you and many others wouldn't dream of crossing. I feel that once a person intentionally posts to hurt an individual personally, the issue needs to be addressed, which it was by Jill. From the posts that I read from Jill directed to FF, in no way was Jill banning FF from this site. I believe that she was banning FF from making personal attacks that can seriously hurt an individual. And for that, I respect Jill and her decision.

I found much humor in FF's posts and good points also for "the other side". However, it seemed as though lately she strayed from this side of her and engaged in cruel, personal attacks which started to get out of control. This is Jill's site. In essence, Jill is "the boss" and we are "the employees". All good bosses hear opinions from both sides of the spectrum, and encourage dialogue. But even good bosses draw a line in the sand that cannot be crossed. If an employee attacks the boss, and not the idea, doesn't the boss have the right to put the employee back on track? Jill didn't "fire" her, she's just asking her to step back behind the line that Jill drew in the sand.

That's how I see it, at least!

JLM, beautifully said. I also think that FF was actually taking away from the actual debate. I attempted to post on Amanda Marcotte's site once, and I was immediately banned for simply saying that I was against abortion. No sense in beating a dead horse. I respect Jill's decision too. Time to move on.

And any monster who would mock this poor dead little soul [picture] makes me wretch!

Heather,
I know!!! Every time I open this thread, that little face and burn body just breaks my heart.

The expression on that precious face speaks volumes to me. A picture does indeed speak a thousand words.

:(

pro-aborts only have a soft side when it suits them. They can put it on and off like a mask.

TS, how true.

Democrats for Life of Minnesota, a group that until now has been invisible at the Capitol, outlined a package of incentives to encourage unexpectedly pregnant women to bear children: an adoption tax credit, health insurance regulations that make it easier for pregnant women to get coverage and a state match for the federal Women, Infants and Children food program.

Posted by: Sally at March 13, 2008 5:53 PM

Sally, thanks for letting us know about the work of Democrats for Life in Minnesota. I will check it out and let my state and US representatives and senators know that I would like for them to support women in choosing life.

FF adds NOTHING to the debate. Just my two cents.

Posted by: Sandy at March 13, 2008 6:08 PM

I remember reading a post a long time ago by Somg about how innocent meant not causing harm. And a pregnancy can sometimes cause harm therefore babies aren't innocent. It was a word game but in the end Somg tried to explain this word nocent.

Most people put in two cents worth.

Then there is Somg, who puts in 'nocent' worth.

"Heather,
I know!!! Every time I open this thread, that little face and burn body just breaks my heart.

The expression on that precious face speaks volumes to me. A picture does indeed speak a thousand words.

:("

Absolutely. Agreed 100%.

S.