Mother unsuccessfully tries to flush newborn down airplane toilet

airplane toilet signage.jpgWhat a horrible story. Another news source reported the baby is a boy. From Monsters & Critics, July 8:

New Delhi - A 22-year-old Indian woman was arrested after allegedly giving birth and abandoning her baby in an airplane toilet....

The crew of the Turkmenistan Airlines plane found the baby boy in the toilet during a routine check after landing in Amritsar in northern India....

They alerted airport authorities who found and arrested Amandeep Kaur Mann, a medical student returning from Turkmenistan.

'While on the flight, Mann was very disturbed, and she was rushing to the toilet very frequently,' a police official was quoted as saying in the report. 'Some co-passengers and the aircraft staff also inquired about her health.'

The police said Mann at first refused to admit that the child was hers but later confessed. Both Mann and the baby were moved to a hospital near the airport.

The mother was doing well, but the child was in critical condition....

Singh said the infant's head was stuck in the toilet, which was taken to hospital along with the baby where it was freed by a team of surgeons.

According to the United Nations, elective abortions are legal in Turkmenistan up to 28 weeks and in India up up to 20 weeks.

If abortion were illegal in either country, pro-aborts would be blaming this insidious tragedy on that fact. Now what will they blame it on? In reality this incident exemplifies the coarsening of regard for early human life. This mother was not ignorant. She was a medical student.

[HT: Laura Loo]


Comments:

very sickening indeed and heartless

Posted by: chris at July 9, 2010 8:34 AM


A MEDICAL STUDENT???? Who would want this soul-less woman performing any surgery on them? Or administering any medical help whatsoever when she did this to her own helpless newborn. If she can't even have compassion on the babe from her womb why would she have ANY compassion for patients?

I am angry. Sick and angry. What a cruel woman.

Posted by: Sydney M. at July 9, 2010 9:28 AM


Oh, no! Here recently it seems as though there are a lot of mothers abandoning/killing/attempting to kill newborn boys. Why???

Especially a woman from India. I thought boys are prized over girls there, so why should she want to kill her son?

Poor little boy. I hope he comes out OK. How disgusting and cruel. How can a mother look at her newborn child and feel anything but wonder and love? I don't understand. I know that with abortion the woman doesn't always see her child and can rationalize what she's doing away. But a newborn baby? Where's the "mama bear" instinct? If anyone tried to hurt *my* baby they'd have to get through me first.

Posted by: Sydney M. at July 9, 2010 9:28 AM - agreed. I wouldn't want anyone this cruel to be MY doctor. And certainly not my children's pediatrician either.

Posted by: army_wife at July 9, 2010 9:53 AM


This is just revolting, pure and simple...and for a medical student, yet.
I wouldn't let this woman treat my dog if she was vet.

Posted by: Mike at July 9, 2010 10:07 AM


Better be murder charges pending!

Poor sweet baby boy. Praying he makes it through and is adopted into a loving family!

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 10:17 AM


Attempted murder, I mean.

Such a sad, sick, evil world we live in.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus!

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 10:20 AM


It boggles my mind that some people think what this woman did on an airplane is horrific, but killing the SAME baby in an office building when a doctor is present is NOT.

Posted by: Janet at July 9, 2010 10:23 AM


DANG! What is this world coming to?

I just realized something, isn't the US the target country of Med students from India?

IF ever she graduates Med School, I don't think she'll be practicing in India...keep tabs on her name, folks, she might show up in your community in the near future.

Posted by: RSD at July 9, 2010 10:24 AM


I just saw someone commenting about the current movie -- (about the sperm donor to the lesbian mom's ~ don't recall the title - and not advertising it) -- and the person said "this has been coming for a long time (those type of parenting/birth situations) - and everyone knows it but for the crazy right-wing republicans."

BUT I see a story (real story!) like this -- and say, we've seen it coming (some us are crazy right wingers...) -- and WHAT are we doing about it? A woman (medical student) crams her newborn baby into an airplane toliet!!?? God will not be mocked forever - for shame - how we have come to treat/kill/murder our own - babies!!

Posted by: elizabethk at July 9, 2010 10:47 AM


Such a sad, sick, evil world we live in.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus!
Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 10:20 AM

Carla, we live in a wonderful world, filled with amazing people, beautiful landscapes, and the potential for greatness in everything from literature to love. Sure, there are sick and evil things that happen. Remember, there are billions of humans on this planet. This type of story, while horrifying, is rare.

Posted by: Hal at July 9, 2010 10:58 AM


In reality this incident exemplifies the coarsening of regard for early human life. This mother was not ignorant. She was a medical student.

I'm glad to see some amount of agency attributed to this woman. I wish that you'd attribute this sort of agency to women who have abortions or use the birth control pill rather than regard them as victims.

Posted by: Austin Nedved at July 9, 2010 11:04 AM


In reality this incident exemplifies the coarsening of regard for early human life. This mother was not ignorant. She was a medical student.

I'm glad to see some amount of agency attributed to this woman. I wish that you'd attribute this sort of agency to women who have abortions or use the birth control pill rather than regard them as victims.

Posted by: Austin Nedved at July 9, 2010 11:05 AM


Abortion, while horrifying, is not rare and leads to more depraved behaviors.

Posted by: Praxedes at July 9, 2010 11:12 AM


Not the same thing, Austin. This woman was not a 'victim'...she was a med student. She was not lied to about 'what' her baby is. She saw EXACTLY what he is....and did it, anyway.Women who have abortions are LIED to. About their baby, about the affects abortion will have on them physically,emotionally, etc. Women who have been on The Pill have been lied to about the affect it will have on their bodies by doctors/pharmaceutical companies who HAVE AN AGENDA. Like I said....not the same thing as this situation.

Posted by: Pamela at July 9, 2010 11:19 AM


Hal,

I can tell you're an objective, mostly logical, practical thinker, and while those are, in a lot of cases and ways, very good traits to have, they do you a huge disservice here and on the subject of abortion.

Sometimes the emotional response is the proper one. Like in this situation.

Yes, stuffing a child in an airplane toilet may be rare, but the mind-sets and laws which lead to such behavior are not rare.

Yes, stuffing a child in an airplane toilet doesn't happen often, but still, think about it...a CHILD STUFFED IN A TOILET! That's a repulsive, hideous act. It doesn't matter how rare or how often it happens, it's still a terrible act. That's a form of child abuse.

Practical/objective thinking has its place, but in situations like this it makes sense to be horrified.

The next question is...what in the world do we do about it? THEN that's where practical, objective thinking comes in, but FIRST is the emotional response because that is what wll trigger people to do something about something like that.

Posted by: Mother In Texas at July 9, 2010 11:31 AM


Yes folks, even Med students have lost their ever-loving minds! You can bet your house that woman will never practice medicine anywhere in the world if this story gets around like we know it will do. As a father of three beautiful little girls, I'd like to say that this woman is a monster who has no right to have,be near or even look at children. May God have Mercy on her soul.

Posted by: Eastern_Orthodox_Poet at July 9, 2010 11:46 AM


I am not trying to make excuses for this woman, but in many Asian nations, having a child out of wedlock is a big disgrace and brings shame not only upon the woman, but her whole family.

Of course, this doesn't make trying to flush an infant down the toilet right, but I was trying to offer some perspective.

Posted by: phillymiss at July 9, 2010 12:09 PM


Austin,

Women who abort are victims by the fact that abortion remains legal.

Posted by: Praxedes at July 9, 2010 12:16 PM


If you actually know about history, infanticide is an old, old problem in India (mostly of girls, though). It has little to nothing to do with "coarsening of respect for life" caused by abortion.

Infanticide is also a problem in societies that ban abortion, especially Muslim ones (again, mostly of girls). Muslim feminists have written extensively about it. One Egyptian feminist--and I can't remember her name at the moment--said her mother gave birth to and then smothered 9 different babies.

Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 9, 2010 12:19 PM


Yes, phillymiss...that's the attitude in MANY nations..including here in the U.S. I was born out-of-wedlock in the 60's. My grandmother(my mother's mother) 'implied' my entire life that I was a "shame and a disgrace" to the family. She had 16 grandchildren, but I was the only "illegitimate" one. Out of those other 15 'legitimate' grandchildren, guess who took care of her in her final years, who was holding her hand when she drew her last breath?

Posted by: Pamela at July 9, 2010 12:22 PM


Yes, phillymiss...that's the attitude in MANY nations..including here in the U.S. I was born out-of-wedlock in the 60's. My grandmother(my mother's mother) 'implied' my entire life that I was a "shame and a disgrace" to the family. She had 16 grandchildren, but I was the only "illegitimate" one. With those other 15 'legitimate' grandchildren, guess who took care of her in her final years, who was holding her hand when she drew her last breath?

Posted by: Pamela at July 9, 2010 12:24 PM


Mods..please delete the first post. I corrected the second one. :)

Posted by: Pamela at July 9, 2010 12:28 PM


HI Hal!!
What you read is the lamenting of my heart over such senseless violence.

Yes children, landscapes, and life is amazing because they are all from the hand of God. What do I have that is not from Him? I have seen amazing grace and have HOPE! :) If you do not understand that then I don't expect you to understand that sin is evil. Or that Satan is the father of lies and had a hand in a woman trying to flush her baby boy down the toilet.

Wish we could have coffee sometime.

Posted by: Carla at July 9, 2010 12:30 PM


Hal...this type of situation is not that rare. I've read a lot of stories of moms killing their newborns..and quite a few of mom's trying to flush their newborns though never in an airplane. So thats a first.

There was a mom who left her baby to die of exposure along a trail in the woods, the mom who birthed her child while on break at her job at McD's and then left the baby to drown in the commode. The mom who stabbed her newborn and decapitated him, the mom who delivered in the bathtub and calmly soaked in the tub while she watched her infant struggle and drown. The young parents who threw their newborn into the dumpster at a motel when he was born alive. The woman arrested when cops found various infants buried on her property and several mummified newborns stuffed under her bathroom sink. Coroner determined they had drawn breath and thus been born alive. The mom who threw her baby in the trash and the trash man discovered the child the next day. The mom who threw her newborn off the bridge into a frigid river. The mom who gave birth and stuffed her baby into the closet where the grandmother discovered the decomposing infant days later. The mom who stuffed her baby into a suitcase.

All real cases. I could google them all and provide links and will do so if you want me to. This isn't so rare. Whats that say about the condition of mankind?

Posted by: Sydney M. at July 9, 2010 12:55 PM


"Infanticide is also a problem in societies that ban abortion, especially Muslim ones (again, mostly of girls). "

You've made this claim before, but I wasn't ever to substantiate it. Do you have any statistics on this?

Posted by: lauren at July 9, 2010 1:16 PM


I'm not condoning what she did to her child, but to say she's "soul-less" and practically dehumanize her is not okay, either. How about considering what led her to this? How about showing compassion for someone who obviously isn't in a good place? Where is the love and support and forgiveness for her?

Posted by: Bri at July 9, 2010 1:21 PM


"You've made this claim before, but I wasn't ever to substantiate it. Do you have any statistics on this?"

No, much like Muslims don't proudly track statistics of how many of their citizens commit honor killings or beat their wives. I wouldn't trust the Saudi Arabian or Pakistani government to report honestly on infanticide, anyway. (And if you'd believe them, you're stupid.) But I trust the word of Muslim feminists who saw it firsthand.

The whole point of bannning abortions in Muslim countries is that so women who get pregnant can't escape punishment for having sex. They certainly don't respect life. We know that.

Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 9, 2010 1:27 PM


Sorry, Ashley, that isn't enough to substantiate your claim, especially given that infanticide is specifically banned in the Koran.

I have no question that there is little respect for life in general in many countries under Islamic countrol, but i do question that infanticide is particuarlly rampant.

Posted by: lauren at July 9, 2010 1:32 PM


Bri...I don't have compassion for her. Okay? I have compassion for the child who was wedged into a nasty airplane toilet. Anyone who would do that to a defenseless child that they've seen with their own eyes is soul-less IMO.

Ashley...having a baby is not "punishment" for sex. Why do you have such a warped view of children? My son is a gift to me. Try telling my poor cousin and his wife who after 12 years of marriage can't conceive that they should be lucky they aren't "punished" with a baby. sheesh.

Posted by: Sydney M. at July 9, 2010 1:33 PM


Pamela, I truly am sorry to hear your story. A child is NOT responsible for the circumstances of his or her birth and shouldn't be stigmatized because of it. I admire you for being at your grandmother's bedside and caring for her. That truly is wonderful.

Today things have turned around in regards to out of wedlock births and it's much more accepted. I think that perhaps things have gone TOO far. I had a young woman say that she didn't want to "be with" her baby's father, she just wanted to have his baby. I guess I'm old-fashioned, but I think that a child should have two parents, if possible.

Sydney, I assume that all these cases happened in the U.S. Abortion was supposed to "cure" the problem of infanticide in the U.S., but it hasn't. I heard of a woman throwing her newborn to some hungry pit-bulls in NYC. She claimed it was stillborn, but still . . . you just don't treat a human being this way.

Posted by: phillymiss at July 9, 2010 1:41 PM


I'm speechless.

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at July 9, 2010 1:43 PM


Phillymiss...they were all US cases that I read personally on crime websites and news websites. Awful to think about.

Posted by: Sydney M. at July 9, 2010 1:45 PM


"Ashley...having a baby is not "punishment" for sex."

Where did I say that? I was talking about Muslims. They stone women for giving birth out of wedlock (as they recently did in Nigeria). If they don't ban abortion, how are they going to find and punish the evil whores who had sex and got pregnant?

Abortion bans aren't always motivated by a love of The Babies. At least not in these countries.

Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 9, 2010 2:10 PM


Bri,
I can have compassion for her(she obviously isn't in her right mind??!!)and still want justice to be served for her precious son that she tried to kill by flushing him down a toilet.

I can't stop thinking about him.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 2:15 PM


Wish we could have coffee sometime.
Posted by: Carla at July 9, 2010 12:30 PM

One day I'm sure we will get the chance. Have a good weekend!

Posted by: Hal at July 9, 2010 2:21 PM


I am marching in a parade tonight with my local Pregnancy Care Center. I will be the one holding the
3-D ultrasound banner. Wave to me and my daughter will throw you some candy, Hal!! You have a good one too, my friend.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 2:32 PM


I'm not condoning what she did to her child, but to say she's "soul-less" and practically dehumanize her is not okay, either. How about considering what led her to this? How about showing compassion for someone who obviously isn't in a good place? Where is the love and support and forgiveness for her?

I can't help but feel NO sympathy for this woman. I feel extremely sorry for her baby, however.

This woman looked at her newborn baby and saw him with her own eyes, and while he was struggling and absolutely helpless, she - his own mother- forced his body into a toilet, meant for feces and urine, and tried to flush him down it. Just imagine his crying.

I don't care WHAT you've been through- if you can do something like this- KNOWING full well what you are doing- you do not deserve sympathy or compassion, IMHO. MANY people go through some terrible things in their lifetime and don't go around stuffing their children into commodes! It isn't an excuse.

If this woman one day expresses remorse or sadness over what she has done, then and only then would I feel compassion for her.

As for forgiveness, you and I cannot provide this woman with forgiveness- only God can. I pray she seeks it.

Posted by: Bethany at July 9, 2010 2:42 PM


You know why I don't have compassion (and why I agreed with everything you wrote Bethany) is because, a woman who has an abortion, though she DID consent to her child's death may not have realizes what she was doing. She may have been lied to by the abortion industry that she wasn't really carrying a child. She is not some soul-less human being. She is just deceived.

So I can have compassion for those women. Those women aren't going to come after MY children and harm them.

This woman, as Bethany said, LOOKED at that baby, HER baby and decided to kill him. And kill him by drowning him in a filthy toilet. He was cold, gasping for breath and hurting and she felt no compassion, no remorse. She was not misled. She knew what she was doing. AND SHE DIDN'T CARE.

That kind of woman IS a danger to my children and the thought that there are people like that in the world is terrifying to me.

Posted by: Sydney M. at July 9, 2010 4:30 PM


Carla,

Parade? Did you miss the one on The Fourth? Why isn't your daughter throwing diapers or something? Happy marching!

Posted by: Janet at July 9, 2010 5:24 PM


Sydney and Bethany, forgive me-- I had no idea you were there and knew exactly what happened!

Why is compassion circumstantial? When you speak of God and His (undeserved) forgiveness and compassion, yet in the same breath speak of how one of His children needs to earn your compassion for her transgressions, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

How lucky you are that your sins are so much easier to hide.

Posted by: Bri at July 9, 2010 6:05 PM


Bri, she shoved her baby into a toilet, in order to try to kill him, and she ended up injuring him greatly - as far as I know, no one was holding a gun to her head, forcing her to do so. That is cold-hearted and evil. There is no circumstance that I can imagine myself saying, "Oh, well THAT makes it understandable, or okay."

By the way, repentance is the first step towards forgiveness in the Bible. Someone who feels they did no wrong cannot be forgiven.

Posted by: Bethany at July 9, 2010 6:15 PM


"Carla, we live in a wonderful world, filled with amazing people, beautiful landscapes, and the potential for greatness in everything from literature to love."

Hal @ 10:58 AM

I agree. But what about the aborted baby's rights to see this beautiful world? Abortion obliterates them on the spot.

Posted by: Janet at July 9, 2010 6:17 PM


Sydney, I agree- that is the difference. A woman who kills an unborn baby is able to be deceived because she can't see her baby and may not realize completely what she's doing. I can actually feel compassion for a woman who was deceived and realizes her error... But for a mother to look at her helpless baby and just do something like this, hearing his helpless cry, seeing him struggle, knowing that this is a little life, her precious baby...knowing that taking his life is murder- that is quite another story. You can't just say, "I didn't know it was a person" once you've seen that baby face to face.

Posted by: Bethany at July 9, 2010 6:27 PM


Bri @ 1:21 has a good point.
How do we know the age of the baby or if the mother actually looked him in the eye? If she was as distressed as they say in the news reports, she may not have even looked, just delivered straight into the toilet and flushed. Horrible, but that would explain how irrational it all was.

Posted by: Janet at July 9, 2010 6:50 PM


Janet,
A town near us is having its DAZE this weekend. The parade was awesome! The diapers are waiting at the office. :)

Bethany and Sydney,
Thank you for your thoughts on this horrifying story. Please pray with me that this precious boy is ok.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 9:27 PM


There is no circumstance that I can imagine myself saying, "Oh, well THAT makes it understandable, or okay." Posted by: Bethany at July 9, 2010 6:15 PM

Isn't infanticide still common and not consistently prosecuted in parts of India? I am not making excuses for this woman, and I am as horrified as everyone else by what she did. But if she is from a part of the country where infanticide is common or where authorities look the other way, her conscience formation is going to be different from ours, isn't it? No doubt she knew what she was doing. What we don't know is whether she was raised to view this as wrong. She and her little son are in my prayers.

Carla- don't know how accurate my source was, but I read somewhere that the little boy is expected to improve.

Posted by: Fed Up at July 9, 2010 9:56 PM


Hal, not as rare as you wish. In the US alone, 43% or more of all women have had at least one abortion. That means that of every 10 women you know, at least four of them have had one or more abortions. More than 3,000 babies a a day are ripped to pieces in their mothers' wombs by "doctors" who know and see exactly what they are doing. I'd like to close my eyes to the evil, too. I wish it was rare. But it isn't.

Posted by: Jody Ward at July 9, 2010 10:02 PM


Carla I'm with you- I hope and pray the baby is okay.

Fed up and Janet...
I hope I don't sound like a mean person with no understanding, but it just is hard for me to justify her actions- or even to be understanding towards her- based on how difficult her situation was, or whether her culture accepted it as the norm or not...

In some countries, raping a woman is not considered to be a big deal. But would I feel compassion for a man who decided to rape a woman, because this was the culture in his country? I don't think I could feel that.

But maybe it is my weak human nature. I'll have to think about that and try to figure it out.

Posted by: Bethany at July 9, 2010 10:13 PM


Bethany,
I hope you don't misunderstand me. What this woman has done is beyond horrific to me. I just can't stop thinking about what in the world might possess someone do that to her own baby boy??
Fear? Desperation? I don't know. Not making excuses for her but sheesh the woman has some serious issues that need addressing NOW!

Fed up,
I do hope you are right!! Can you imagine him learning his birth story someday??!!

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 10:29 PM


We judge Hitler because he was responsible for the death of 6 million Jews. We don't say "Well, we should have compassion because we weren't THERE. We don't know the whole story or WHY Hitler killed Jews." No. Right? Thats absurd!

That is exactly how I feel about this situation. I didn't need to be there to no there is no excuse under the son for dumping your newborn in the commode and trying to flush him. NONE.

She was a) a med student so she knew that was a baby and b) far enough along that the baby is being treated in the hospital after he got his head stuck in the commode. So this wasn't some 12 week miscarriage that she didn't know what was happening and accidentally flushed. This was a big baby and she was a person trained in BIOLOGY!

I have no compassion for her. Not an ounce.

I think its funny Bri can conjure so much compassion for this hateful woman and then look down her nose at Bethany and myself...two women who are wives and moms and have never hurt a soul.

Kinda boggles my mind like people who get all emotional over puppies but can't shed a tear when confronted with pictures of aborted children. Weird.

God is a God of mercy, sure. But Bri, if you read the Bible you will see God's character. God is a God of judgement and retribution also. If you ask He will save you from eternal punishment but that doesn't mean you won't get your just desserts on earth. God calls sin SIN. He doesnt mince words. He believes in law. He believes in an earthly justice system. He set up punishments for the Israelites to punish criminals. So don't preach to me as if its wrong that I am angry and horrified at what this woman has done. Many times when the Isrealites burned their children for the god Molech it says "God's anger was kindled". God gets angry too when innocents suffer.

Posted by: Sydney M. at July 9, 2010 10:38 PM


Bethany,

Your feelings are valid. You are not weak.

Murder is not justifiable. There are no good excuses for what this woman did to her baby and I don't think anyone here excuses her.
It's beyond comprehension, really. My mind is numb. Maybe that's why I have to just ask "why?"

Posted by: Janet at July 9, 2010 10:40 PM


Spelled "know" wrong. My apologies.

Posted by: Sydney M. at July 9, 2010 10:41 PM


I hope this child makes it and is put into a good home where he is loved. It just breaks my heart. That poor little baby boy. :(

Posted by: Kelli Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 10:47 PM


Maybe the "compassion" Bri speaks of is similar to the compassion a post-abortive mother might be looking for when reading a pro-life blog like this one. Or maybe not. Just a thought.

Posted by: Janet at July 9, 2010 10:51 PM


Bethany, I don't think you're mean :) I'm not sure how much compassion I feel for this woman, but I do not have all the facts to judge her.


Before I condemn this woman, I'd want to know how much exposure she had to infanticide during her formative years and how she was socialized to view it. I'm not saying I think she should get a free pass. I'm just saying IMHO her personal culpability is lessened if she was raised in a part of India where infanticide is accepted and her family/culture have failed her in the proper formation of her conscience.

Posted by: Fed Up at July 9, 2010 11:17 PM


Bri,
Describe the kind of compassion you feel for this woman.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 11:18 PM


Lord,

Please let this child live and find you,

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at July 9, 2010 11:23 PM


Ashley,

I don't know that punishing women is why abortion is illegal for Muslims. An Egyptian woman over here for school tried to explain it to me, but it is more complicated than that. I thought it had something to do with the concept of "quickening". Before that point, taking herbs, etc. was merely considered to be bringing on a late period??? We had a little bit of a language problem, so if you are better informed,please correct me.

I'd like to understand that better because it seems a little counter-intuitive when you look at the changing demographics of Europe. The Muslims are having large families and the original inhabitants are aborting their children.

Heck - some (not all) Muslims still stone women for adultery - evidence or not. They don't need to see a pregnant belly. As of about an hour ago, because I like to check the news before I go to sleep, Sakineh Ashtiani's imminent sentence (in Iran) of stoning for ALLEGED adultery has been canceled, because of all the outpouring of disgust from the rest of the world.

Still, I pray that I am not going to wake up in the morning and find that they have hanged her instead. She has already been punished with either 99 or 100 lashes and 5 years in prison for something she may not even have done. Now THAT is a country that hates women.

Best wishes to you.

Posted by: sabella at July 10, 2010 5:16 AM


Fed up, that is really interesting. You've given me food for thought. Thanks.

Posted by: Bethany at July 10, 2010 6:50 AM


I pray this woman gets help (anyone who would try to kill a baby by flushing him down a toilet needs serious help). And I also pray that this little baby boy is able to survive and is adopted by a kind loving family.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at July 10, 2010 9:31 AM


Wow, that is sad. You'd have to wonder what would drive a woman to that kind of desperation, but with such callous indifference.

Posted by: Rachael C. at July 10, 2010 7:59 PM


Janet
I think some people just aren't able to see their humanity as well when there still in the womb. And of course there are those who are facing difficult times and think that is the only reasonable solution. I'm believing that someone who draws well could depict the issue of abortion in a cartoon. A funny one would be a lady addressing an abortionist and just laughing in his or her face and saying you want me to kill my baby and please tell me why again one more time.

Posted by: myrtle miller at July 10, 2010 10:53 PM


Bri, she shoved her baby into a toilet, in order to try to kill him, and she ended up injuring him greatly - as far as I know, no one was holding a gun to her head, forcing her to do so. That is cold-hearted and evil. There is no circumstance that I can imagine myself saying, "Oh, well THAT makes it understandable, or okay."


I'm not saying we have to understand why she did it, or if I heard her reasoning that I would say, "oh, well-- that explains it, then. Carry on." I really hope this woman gets help, and I pray that baby boy knows how loved he really is.

This is a situation that is absolutely devastating, and I couldn't understand it even if I was there, even if I sat down with the mother and talked about what made her do that. It's not my job to understand it. It's not my job to justify it to myself or to anyone else, and it's not her job to do that, either.

Isn't it terrible that sin affects us? It sucks that we're sinful. Awful things happen in this world and they won't stop happening here. But we are all sinful, and some of us are lucky enough to know that despite the fact that we are broken, we are LOVED.

I feel compassion for this woman because I am almost certain that the message she is getting right now is not that she is loved; the message she is probably getting is that she is sick, soul-less, unworthy of compassion, not qualified for forgiveness, subhuman. Her sins have been publicized and headlined and instead of just hearing "we are all sinners," I am also hearing, "but she is the WORST."

I think its funny Bri can conjure so much compassion for this hateful woman and then look down her nose at Bethany and myself...two women who are wives and moms and have never hurt a soul.

I don't know why me disagreeing with you has given the impression that I am looking down on you. I apologize if that's the impression I gave--that's certainly not what I meant. But just because you are a wife and a mother doesn't mean you've never hurt anyone. That doesn't mean that you're better than this woman. That may not be what you mean, but the statement sure carries itself that way.

By the way, repentance is the first step towards forgiveness in the Bible. Someone who feels they did no wrong cannot be forgiven.

This sounds a lot like you're assuming that she hasn't sought forgiveness.

Maybe the "compassion" Bri speaks of is similar to the compassion a post-abortive mother might be looking for when reading a pro-life blog like this one. Or maybe not. Just a thought.

I would definitely agree it's similar, though I'm not speaking from personal experience. I couldn't ever have an abortion, regardless of the circumstances. But friends of mine have and were afraid to tell me or talk to me about it because they thought I would judge them or disown them.

Love is louder than contempt. Forgiveness is more powerful than judgment.

Posted by: Bri at July 11, 2010 10:58 AM


Bri, I agree with you, no one was there to understand her state of mind when she committed this horrible act. But to be unforgiving is not the way of the Lord. I personally would never have an abortion but have had friends that have had numerous. It saddens me that they went through with it, but they suffer every day for their actions, as they should. This act will haunt her for the rest of her life. even if the media had not been involved.

Posted by: cheetah at July 11, 2010 6:41 PM


Bri, I agree with you, no one was there to understand her state of mind when she committed this horrible act. But to be unforgiving is not the way of the Lord. I personally would never have an abortion but have had friends that have had numerous. It saddens me that they went through with it, but they suffer every day for their actions, as they should. This act will haunt her for the rest of her life. even if the media had not been involved.

Posted by: cheetah at July 11, 2010 6:43 PM


It saddens me that they went through with it, but they suffer every day for their actions, as they should.

Why should they suffer? Satan binds us to guilt, not Christ. Christ sets us free from that, He doesn't want us to be haunted by our past.

Posted by: Bri at July 11, 2010 7:15 PM


This woman's hideous and evil actions should make her ineligible to be a medical professional at any time!!! WHO in their right mind, would WANT this woman advising them medically about anything???????

Posted by: Lori Sheppard at July 11, 2010 7:36 PM


about guilt : Paul was haunted by it & even though one may be forgiven - the consequences last


"being in one's right mind" ( ? ) : the human brain is not fully developed until around age 25 years..so why should someone young be making serious decisions ?..it is also very possible that the young mother did not want her family to know she was pregnant & was acting out of fear..so you have an undeveloped brain making childish decisions out of fear -getting rid of the evidence / what's the solution ?...the "old ways" - young people staying closely involved with family - not going out on their own - they just get taken advantage of .. in the name of "personal choice"

Posted by: elisheba at July 11, 2010 10:32 PM


Don't let Kathleen Sebellius hear about this woman or she and Obama will groom this medical student for a future job appointment overseeing a pediatric panel in Obamacare.

Posted by: truthseeker at July 12, 2010 12:14 AM


The Only One that can set women free from the pain of abortion is Christ. He hung on the cross for my guilt and shame and now I am free to help others in abortion recovery. I live with the knowledge that my daughter died in an abortion clinic. I carry it. I own it. I take responsibility for it.
I also love her, honor her and work hard in her memory. Her name is Aubrey.

If those that have commented here have friends that need abortion recovery please get in touch with me.
carla@jillstanek.com

I suffered and struggled for years alone in my pain. It breaks my heart to think that other women are suffering right now.

Therefore I will allure her, i will lead her into the desert and speak tenderly to her. Hosea 2:14

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 12, 2010 8:15 AM


My abortion story
http://outcrywisconsin.blogspot.com/2009/03/my-story-at-faith-community-church.html

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 12, 2010 8:31 AM


Should anything really surprise us any more? Pure darkness!

Posted by: Bill at July 12, 2010 9:27 AM



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