How does this help the pro life cause? I guess it brings attention to themselves and perhaps to the fact the most pro abortion President ever is soon going to be speaking at a Catholic college. However is anyone besides Fox news covering this?

Also I wonder why so many of the protestors are men. One argument pro aborts use is that men will never have to make a decision about whether or not to abort. The pro life movement needs some strong women leaders.

Joanne, the Associated Press and Chicago Tribune also wrote on this arrest, which just happened.

This increases the social tension.

Yes it does increase social tension and apparently other media are starting to pick up the story. I still think we need some good women pro life leaders. Badly.

And at least there does not appear to be any bloody spongebob dolls.

Yes, better staged this time.

Sarah Palin's a great start, Joanne! :-)

Gina,

I love Sarah Palin! I think most pro life women do. But she's governor and that takes up most of our time. I was referring to a woman pro life leader who could be as visible and have the time that Keyes and Terry seem to have.

This is going back a few years but I remember when President Bush signed the partial birth abortion ban and in the picture he was surrounded by men. Could he not have found a few pro life Senators or House members who were women? Elizabeht Dole for one.

It just reinforces the stereotype that many pro life activists are middle aged men. And pro aborts love to point that out.

The priest looks so frail and yet so strong in his conviction. He's the extremist......riggggghhhhhttt.

I still can't believe I'm seeing this. I'm incredibly sad to say that this is my alma mater arresting people for speaking out for those who are the most vulnerable and cannot speak for themselves. What exactly is their crime????? I have seen countless people from other schools wearing extremely tasteless shirts depicting leprechauns doing disgusting things on game days at Notre Dame. Should these people be arrested? To my knowledge, it doesn't happen. And yet the university has chosen to honor a facilitator of genocide and infanticide and to arrest those who attempt to stand in his way. I'll say it again - this president is not worthy of my respect and I do not respect him. The issue is not worthy of dialogue. There is no "need" to murder an unborn child. Barack Obama is a disgusting pig of a man with no soul - and my alma mater has seen fit to honor him. What a sad, sad day.

Men absolutely belong in this scene. They are responsible for many abortions, hurt by abortions...And they are charged, like all people, in the protection of innocent life. If a man sat idle while a young child was beaten by her mother or father, he would be criticized for inaction...Unmanliness, if you will.

I say, let them stand up. The women are always there as well...But the men do tend to be a bit more noticeable.

Melody,

I agree of course men have every right to be heard on the pro life issue and particularly abortion. It's just striking how the men outnumber the women when it comes to activism.

Jill, one should keep in mind that the entire purpose of these arrests is to capture the cameras. The semester ended last week. All the dorms are closed. Most of the services are closed. Seniors mostly live off-campus. There's no one there.

Please know that there are thousands of men who wanted their children to live...but had no say.

Why so many men activists? I think so many of the really passionate pro-life women are home raising and teaching their children the value of human life. They're helping where they can in their parishes and local pregnancy support centers. Personally, I'm grateful that so many men have dedicated their lives to standing up for women and children. I love that!!!

It is more the job of men to stand up and protect their families. God only raises up women (like Deborah) when men are weak and unwilling to do their part. Women are in more danger being arrested, as are our families. Most women have young children to take care of, some in utero (and prenatal care is not great in jail). Also, if a pregnant woman was beaten during an arrest, it could harm her child.

Mary,
I agree!!! Love seeing all of the men out there!!

Why so many men activists? I think so many of the really passionate pro-life women are home raising and teaching their children the value of human life.

That's what I was about to say Mary! Many of us women who choose life have those lives to tend to at home! I wish I could be there though!

I would agree with some of the points above - that the visual abundance of men on the frontlines of the PL movement 1) further underlines the PC POV that the very people shouting down clinics are the very ones who will never lay down on a table in stirrups and 2) turns some women off -those who are open to discussion. I would imagine that a woman speaking to another woman would be much more effective for you.

The priest is pretty clearly using the common protest tactic of refusing to support his own body weight while being escorted by police.

Jill, Fr. Norman Weslin is an old and dear friend but I can assure you that you don't hve to shed any tears over his arrest at Notre Dame. He's been arrested about 200 times and this one was a piece of cake to him. He called to say he was ging to Notre Dame and I knew he'd spend some ime in the South Bend jail. I hope he gets out in time to return to Chicago with us on one of our buses afer our masssive Truth Tour on Sunday. I'm not in a position to judge other pro-life groups' do, so long as their motives are pure, as I am sure Fr. Weslin's is. What is happening at Notre Dame is a major gift to the pro-life movement, giving us an opportunity to make it crystal clear that Barack Obama is solidly pro-abortion, a fact the Republicans failed to make clear during the 2008 campaign. Now with four polls showing that the majority of Americans are pro-life, we have to keep abortion in front of the people and make that number grow. That is what the Pro-Life Action League intends to do. Keep up the great blog.

I love the name Melody. That's my first daughter's name!!......................................... We have men and women when we go out to our clinics. It's great to have a mixture. Sometimes men stop to talk to our men..agree/disagree with us. Sometimes a strong man's voice can influence a woman to turn around. It depends on the woman.

I agree Danielle. There is more to pro life activism than purposely getting yourself arrested which is what Keyes and Terry seem to go out of their way to do.

I go back to that photo op with President Bush. Where was someone like Elizabeth Dole or Kay Bailey Hutchinson? Only middle aged men were represented in that photo.

Please understand I'm not meaning to pick on men here. They have every right to participate in PL and should. I know there are men who have grieved an aborted child as have many women. But I believe a PL woman can more persuasively speak on the life issue. At least that is my opinion.

Also, abortion isn't limited to just a "woman's issue"..It's a "WE" issue. It affects men, women, grandparents, and CHILDREN, above all.

Think about this. Women holler about how men have no say so in abortion. "Stay out of it." "You'll never be pregnant!" they bark. However, whenever a man defends a woman's right to choose, his voice is always welcome. Talk about a double standard. And last time I checked, it took 2 to make a baby.

I should have stated PC women. *above post*

Think about this. Women holler about how men have no say so in abortion. "Stay out of it." "You'll never be pregnant!" they bark. However, whenever a man defends a woman's right to choose, his voice is always welcome. Talk about a double standard. And last time I checked, it took 2 to make a baby.
Posted by: heather at May 15, 2009 4:56 PM

Yes that is true, but pro abortion people only agree with "choice" if it means killing the baby.

However pro aborts also argue "its my body I can do with it as I please." As a woman I agree we can do as we please when it comes to cosmetic surgery or other surgeries but it ends when it comes to the baby. Life begins at conception and we do NOT have the right to end the baby's life.

Joanne, agreed. I also have to break down their favorite chant "KEEP YOUR LAWS OFF MY BODY"...okay. Then should we still protect women legally from rape? After all, there are laws against rape!

Pro choicers have to realize how they appear to the average person. Their annual 'March For Women's Lives' makes them look like bizarre cult followers.

Think about this. Women holler about how men have no say so in abortion. "Stay out of it." "You'll never be pregnant!" they bark. However, whenever a man defends a woman's right to choose, his voice is always welcome. Talk about a double standard. And last time I checked, it took 2 to make a baby.
Posted by: heather at May 15, 2009 4:56 PM

-Well, Heather, you can contine to compain about alleged double standards, or heed some advise (from your opposition, IMA)on how to strengthen your case. I'm simply pointing out that more women with a voice may help you. The tactics that have been used during the Notre Dame protest is textbook, old school pro-life. Its preaching to the choir, and not expanding the voice. That's not working as effectively as before and has become farce.

Frankly, if I were a female co-ed on campus, I'd see a bunch of old White men holding babies telling me what to do, when they couldn't possibly understand the turmoil a woman experiences. Now, if there was someone there who looked and sounded like me...that's a different story.

As pro lifers we need to consider how we may look to the other side also. I still cringe when I think of those spongebob dolls with the fake blood. Not only made the activists look ridiculous to the pro abort side but totally demeaned and dishonored the real babies who are butchered every day by abortionists.

To win others to the pro life side we need to use rational arguments and show compassion and kindness to post abortion women. Abortion hurts women both physically and emotionally. A real feminist is pro life as we know the risks to the woman, not to mention of course the innocent baby.

Danielle,
I love the old White men that now try very hard to understand the turmoil of abortion that I have experienced. They tell me how very sorry they are.
They give me hugs and wipe away their tears after hearing what I have been through. They all have daughters and granddaughters and can hardly imagine them going through the turmoil of abortion like I did.

The fact that they have "never been nor ever will be in stirrups" is moot.

It's called love. It's called compassion. I thank God for every man that is standing up to say ENOUGH!

At last this is beginning to look like the Civil Rights movement. Praise God!

Nice, Jasper keep it classy.

I'm sure any pro-choice person who used that language would be banned for life.

And Jill, I knew you would keep your pledge not to give Keyes any more publicity.

I don't know if that was really Jasper. The speech pattern was kind of off. Either way, though...yikes.

I would recommend Jasper be given a one month suspension, conditioned on anger managment and psychological evaluation.

The idea that someone like him could be considered a "moderator" is absurd.

Jill gave him a pass a month ago on a death threat against Dr. Tiller, and he is not getting better.

Jasper, seriously uncalled for. I don't know where to begin with the levels of offensiveness managed in one post. And mods...really? That flies around here?

Danielle, I have emailed the mods (hopefully someone will action this)
I totally agree. It might not be Jasper though.

don't worry, everthing is fine. Everybody is ok.

Sometimes people go trolling. - Anyone could be pretending to be someone else.

thanks Jasper, but what was up with that comment? You didn't have a meltdown did you? :(

Thanks Bobby, that was my home IP (different from my work IP to which I usually post), yes Angel, I had a few drinks and had a meltdown...my fault.

Posted by: Danielle at May 15, 2009 5:13 PM

"Now, if there was someone there who looked and sounded like me...that's a different story."

---------------------------------------------------

There is someone here who 'used' to sound and look like you. She responds to you frequently, but your 'story' has not changed.

If you will not believe her, you will not believe even if someone returned from the dead and told you the 'truth'.

You are not interested in the 'truth', you are only interested in having your way.

Bigoty blinds the bigot to his/her bigotry.

yor bro ken

You know I find it kind of insulting when I hear women or men assert that God choses women to lead when men fail to do so or that women come to lead by 'default'.

God choses women to lead, simply because it pleases HIM to do so.

Women are not second class citizens in the kingdom of God.

I would trade one hundred Bill Clinton's for a one Margaret Thatcher.

I would trade one hundred Joyce Meyers or Paula Whites for one Esther or one Mary.

I would trade a thousand Danielles for one Carla.

But in the body of Christ and the kingdom of God you do not get to choose who serves. You only get to choose whether or not you will receive or recognize them as one who serves. He/she who serves, leads by example.

I loved that african american woman who was 60 years old declaring the truth about the catholic church, notre dame, barrak obama and america.

If you could not hear the grieving heart of God in her discourse, you have not yet come to know HIS voice.

yor bro ken

Jasper, seriously, you need help, you are over the edge.

My suggestion at 6:28 stands.

oh dear, Jasper.
Next time, open word and type it, then delete it! It will make you feel better and no one will be the wiser.
Sometimes I write a long comment on other blogs, complaining about something and then just delete it.

I would trade a thousand Danielles for one Carla.

I love Carla so very much, but I love Danielle as well. I wouldn't trade anyone for...anyone, really. What a sad thing to say.

It's different with politicians because then we're judging (and accepting/rejecting based on) capacity to lead/govern, rather than just people themselves. When you point at people you know and say, "Hm, I'd trade a thousand of you for one of you," that is pretty unnecessary.

I wouldn't trade Carla or Danielle for anyone!

well of course not Alexandra! The world would be a lesser place without a Danielle, a Carla or an Alexandra!:)

Jasper, seriously, you need help, you are over the edge.

My suggestion at 6:28 stands.

Posted by: Bystander at May 15, 2009 8:47 PM------------------------------------------------------- Bystander, get off it already. You type out nothing but respect and praise for the lowest bottomfeeders in the medical field. You know. The "doctors" who rip apart children by any means. They aren't even doctors. They're cold blooded buthers and murderers!

*butchers* above post.....Bystander, you aren't even a rational person. You've been over the edge for a long time.

Nobody is getting traded!! :)

Heather, do you try to rein in your hatefulness around your children, or is it your goal to have them grow up just like you? Just curious.

Posted by: Bystander at May 15, 2009 6:40 PM

"I am confident the university and law enforcement can protect all participants against the publicity-seeking thugs."

------------------------------------------------------

Bystander

The wicked flee in terror when no one pursues because they are bullies and cowards.

Please identify the 'thugs' on the video. Give us a description like you would if you were filing a police report.

Gender, hair color, age, ethnicity, what they were wearing any identifying tatoos, scarrs, body piercings, etc.

Give us the time that the 'thug' were threatening or assauting anyone.

I thought I saw a man and woman who resembled Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn, but I might have been mistaken.

Please help us we want to avoid ' thugs' like Ayers and Dorhn.

yor bro ken

That mostly men are involved in the protests (and arrests) is a good thing in my opinion. It's not the job of the women to fight. Fighting isn't feminine. Following is.

That mostly women are involved in the feminist movement (and pro-abortion movements, etc.) is to be expected. The movement itself is messed up. These are women who are trying to be men, who refuse to acknowledge their different role as women. There's no question that women have been--and continue to be--oppressed in history. There's also no question that the feminist solution is stupid. You don't solve the problem of oppression with more oppression. You don't brutalize (and kill) children because men brutalize (and rape) women. You don't stop being a woman because the woman has a hard lot. No, the wife must continue to submit to her domineering husband and pray for his conversion. The young woman should dress modestly.

There are, of course, the extremes that we see in Mohamedism. But wherever Christianity has taken root in the world, the lot of women has improved. I think that in the long run, feminism will hurt women, even in terms of its own goals. If women want to be treated like men, then the men will abuse them. And if the men continue to act like women, then the Muslims will take over.

Ever since my mother married my father, she has been a faithful housewife. They've had six children, all of whom are well-adjusted, hard-working citizens in society. What's more, we all profess to love to the Lord Jesus. My parents made difficult decisions and sacrifices. Only my father worked, and he worked in a private Christian school where the wages are lower. He also sent all his children to this completely parent-funded school (plus he still had to pay taxes for the public school, plus other taxes, tithes, etc.). Mom helped by making all the meals, cleaning the house, cutting our hair, buying only second-hand clothes, buying things on sale, etc. etc. My mother's also given much time to help in the school, church, and society (for, example, in a place similar to a crisis pregnancy centre).

Okay, I'm rambling. I'll finish by saying that I appreciate much, maybe even all, of what Sarah Palin stands for, the conservative and Christian ideas that she promotes. But I wonder whether it's her job. As a candidate for vice-president, she often had to travel, be away from her family, etc. How could she be a good mother? Maybe the family has already suffered; I'm not saying that Bristol's pregnancy was Mrs. Palin's fault, but lack of motherly attention might have contributed.

YCW and Mary already made my point, but I wanted to say it too--and perhaps go farther with it than they went.

All this talk about no women in the pro-life movement. Just thought I'd drop a few names. Judie Brown, Pres. American Life League; Wendy Wright, Pres. Concerned Women for America; Lila Rose, Pres. and Founder, Live Action Films; Kristi Burton, Founder, Colorado for Equal Rights; Kristan Hawkins, Exec. Director, Students for Life; Cheryl Conrad, Exec. Director Survivors; Norma McCorvey, Jill Stanek, Gingi Edmonds, etc. Look at this impressive list of impressive women in leadership positions within the movement.

There were women arrested as well. They aren't getting the coverage though. One woman, who is still in jail without bond being set, is Missy Smith Director of WAKEUP and also with Silent No More. She is very active in DC. I believe there are at least 3 women still in jail as I post. One of them is the elderly woman that has taken me in while I'm here. There are lots of other women holding signs outside the gate, I being one. As I watched father being arrested, I was in tears at the thought that Notre Dame would arrest 2 Catholic priests for coming on campus carrying a cross and images of Our Lady, while praying the rosary to witness against the murder of the innocent babies in the womb. It breaks my heart. Yes, I said 2 priests, only one was covered by the AP. The other is no longer with a diocese or an order because he dared to uphold doctrine, as I have been told, so the AP has refused to acknowledge him.

Last night I attended the rally with Norma McCorvey and it was a great honor to spend some time with her afterward. I plan to go back to the campus today.

Jon:

I am sure you don't hear this often enough, so:

Thank you.

Thank you for the honor and respect you show towards women in general, and your mother, sisters, and wife (if you are married) in specific. Thank you for being willing to uphold our worth as children of God and our importance in the places he has called us to, even though many will be offended because they have decided those places do not have the same worth. Your mother sounds like a wonderful woman of God, and I want to be like her.

I do think Palin is a Godly woman, and looking at the Republican party and at our nation, I do think this may be a time when God will call forth a Godly woman to lead. Only she really knows whether her call is from God, and it is difficult to say whether more supervision could have impacted Bristol's decisions. I believe that if God has called her He will see to the protection of her family from spiritual harm--and I think her position is stronger than it would have been if Bristol had aborted, even if no one had known. Her family is still a unit, and her grandson is alive, and the mistake of having sex before marriage, while it can be devastating, is not as painful as the double mistake of killing the child. I think she does a great job of trying to keep her baby with her as much as possible--I remember the complaints about her carrying Trig around "like a sack of potatoes." Well, babies like being carried around like a sack of potatoes, and being carted around everywhere with Mommy is better than being left all the time in day care. The left ridiculed her because she used her son "like an accessory," but keeping him with her shows me that she is committed to her children.

If I were to be heavily involved in protests or other work, I would have to either leave my daughter with someone else--abdicating the primary responsibility God has given me--or bring her with me. And I could not bring her to a dangerous situation; that would be irresponsible. If I end up in such a position anyway, in my obedience to God, or if He places us in danger to glorify Himself, that is His prerogative and I would not deny His purpose for me. But I am not directed to seek out martyrdom.

anon: please tell protesters to get footage and post it via the internet.
This is one way to circumvent the mainstream media.
Alot of us use youtube etc.
The last thing Notre Dame wants is press.
They want people to believe that the resistance to this was feeble.
They want to demonstrate that Catholics support Fr. Jenkins and Notre Dame.

Thank you for being willing to uphold our worth as children of God and our importance in the places he has called us to, even though many will be offended because they have decided those places do not have the same worth.

I don't think it's about anyone deciding any specific place/role is inherently worth less than any other. More about people objecting to the idea that their gender determines which place they should be. I think some women make excellent fighters and excellent leaders, same as some men. Moreover I think that within each person we all have specific areas in which we are most helpful as followers, and others in which we are most effective as leaders.

As for Sarah Palin, isn't the whole point of the purity ball type stuff that it's the involvement of the father that is so crucial in adolescent women's lives? I mean if we're talking about parental involvement as it affects teen pregnancy.

Thanks, YCW and Alexandra, for your thoughts on my comment. I don't have time to respond now, but I might read them again later.

Jill gave him a pass a month ago on a death threat against Dr. Tiller, and he is not getting better.

Posted by: Bystander at May 15, 2009 6:28 PM
------------------------------------------------------ No. You've got it all wrong. You are the one who made death threats. You can't fool me behind your new screen name.

Heather, Jasper has admitted that he made the threat to Tiller and that he is responsible for his unbelievably obscene tirade of yesterday.

Now take your medication and get some rest, dear.

I posted this comment on another site, am repeating it here.

We know Father Weslin for several years while we lived in Omaha, know his life story. He has dedicated his life to the unborn since he became a priest, having served at high levels in the US Army. His beloved wife Mary, with whom he opened a home for women who are expecting children, his wife Mary was killed in tragic car accident when they stopped on the highway and their car was hit. he became a priest and he is very holy, dedicated to Our Lady and I felt the presence of Mary, Our Lady so strongly as he was laid on the stretcher to take him away singing, and in the blue it’s as if at one point I saw her vail. Notre Dame, that is Fr. Jenkins, is gutless, and they are afraid that if they let people on campus they could have thousands when Obama shows up, which is true. This anger will seeth for a long time among Catholics with Jenkins, and we will let our voices be known, to the Vatican, to Bishops in our dicoeses, to priests and to our fellow Catholics. I saw the picture of the Immaculate Conception grotto on Notre Dame’s website, and I cried “take it off or remove Fr. Jenkins from leadership.” How can you show the Immaculate Conception and arrest Catholcis, even a Catholci priest fro peaceful protests????

I have to tell you I was extremly upset hurt and angry about this, and seeing this video of Fr. Weslin. He has been beaten before in a day when it was covered up more easily, not like today in the age of YouTube etc. For example, he was arrested in Houston a number of years ago when a woman judge ordered an injunction of several hundred feet during a protest, during I believe a political convention, which Fr. Weslin simply crossed. While in jail his attorney shook his hand and Fr. felt the Eucharist, the body of Christ, in his hand and placed it in his mouth. They tried to pry his jaws open, but as a former military man, he told us he knew the jaw is the strongest muscle in the body. They couldn’t get it out, so as punishment, after having broken his glasses and roughing him up, the guards stripped him completely naked and made him stand outside the jail cells for all to see. Just one example.

What I have to say is, even tough there are a number of Bishops who have spoken out on this, WHERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVEN’T and WHY. I was told that at the last Bishops conference an inside source said they know for sure about half the Bihops voted for Obama. If that is the case, God help us, and the Lord, someday, will indeed spit those out of His mouth who are wimpy, lukewarm and mostly not following the will of God.

What is scary is that Bishops are the apostles of today – can you even imagine St. Paul, or any of the apostles who went to their death to make sure we, yes we and all before us, knew about Jesus Christ and had the oportunity to be with Him forever, can you imagine them being here and being afraid to speak out the truth to the world, when not their lives but perhaps a bit of their comforts were at stake? They would relish the opportunity and use it, and they are sitting up there now looking at the Lord and saying Lord, what are you going to do, where are those you have chosen- why are they silent? What are the Bishops worried about those who haven’t spoke out? Can’t say for sure, but money, big houses, power, prestige, big comfy lifestyle come to mind. If these things cause them to neglect the unborn at this time, and not put themselves on the line at this curcial time, I pity them before the judgement throne of God. When the early martyrs were being thrown to the lions for their beliefs you know their leaders were there with them, and certainly supporting them. In our days, they can’t even get off their colelctive rumps to make a statement against this, except for those who are truly doing the will of God. WHY??????? Because they voted for Obama? If so, I’d suggest repenting and doing what is right. If it’s because they are afraid – where have we gone to as a Church??? They didn’t start this Chuch, Jesus Christ and his Apostles, who were martyred did. Their names in Revelations are on the foundations of the heavenly kingdom, the Apostles of the Lamb. The Bishops are in a position of trust, and their own little kingdoms have taken over as a priority. You can’t even make a statement when our church was founded by Martyr’s blood??? What would John the Baptist do? Our world even has some of our leaders. SPEAK UP FOR THE TRUTH, ALL BISHOPS. Or maybe they don’t want to upset their buddies, or are being political. That isn’t thh Church of Jesus Christ, that is the Church of the world, of wimps. God help us all.

Comment by Tom — 16 May 2009 @ 3:13 pm

Living in Canada and watching this from this side of the border, I must tell you that I am thrilled and excited to see the pro life issue being raised so loudly in America. Would that it could be raised like that here in Canada.
Treasure your freedom, folks, treasure the fact that this is still debatable in your country.
In Canada, the issue is considered resolved by all political parties and we are starting at ground zero, trying to get people to even listen.

Tom,

excellent post.

YCW, as you said, maybe Sarah Palin is a Deborah (or Mrs. Thatcher, though apparently she wasn't pro-life), who was needed because there weren't any men good enough. But I still would make two or even three contentions:

(1) The apostle Paul wrote to Timothy that a woman was not to exercise authority over a man, e.g. by teaching. The context was government of the church, but Paul drew upon both a principle of Creation and a principle from the Fall, so perhaps--as I tend to think--women are not supposed to rule over men, not in politics, either.

(2) There is only so much time in a day. Being vice-president isn't the same as being president, but I would think it's a full-time job. (It's as far away from the Victorian ideal of home as private sanctuary as it could possibly be.) Trying to be a mother at the same time is perhaps heroic but I wonder whether it's realistic. But I'll not press this point too strongly. Certainly the Proverbs 31 woman is an amazing woman, but my mother is in many ways like her already, though she's "only" a housewife.

(3) Not all women are super-women like Sarah Palin, and certainly not all men can or should (as I would imagine Sarah Palin's husband does) take over some duties as "house husband." As God told Eve, the woman's job of bearing children and pleasing her husband is hard enough as it is. Today child-bearing is easier (so my mother says) because of helpful drugs. Keeping house might also be easier, because of helpful machines. But there's no replacement of individual attention to the child by his mother. Quality can't replace quantity.

Deborah, Margaret Thatcher, and Sarah Palin are the exceptions to the rule. The rule still holds.

Several people seem to think that men should not be the main group involved especially in arrests.
I have seen several women, some even who are willing to publicly "regret" a previous abortion.

I also am not sure that we want to place a woman's face on abortion. Does that mean that if as a culture we decide that a mistake was made, do we just blame women? That would be unfair. Men and women are involved.

As a final comment, I do not remember whites being criticized for direct action when it involved civil rights. When you nitpick the color or the sex of the protester, you are really just opposed to the protest. Dr. B

"It's not the job of the women to fight. Fighting isn't feminine. Following is."

Blech. Attitudes like this are exactly what has hampered the pro-life movement for decades. People see one side proclaiming autonomy for women and they see another side arguing that women should "follow" or "submit," and guess which side they're more likely to flock to?

"These are women who are trying to be men, who refuse to acknowledge their different role as women."

Wrong. Women ARE like men in that they, too, like men, are all unique human beings. In real life, women can be protectors just as men can, while men can be nurturers just as women can.

"No, the wife must continue to submit to her domineering husband and pray for his conversion. The young woman should dress modestly."

I'm really glad I didn't eat much today, or else I'd be throwing up right now. There should be no submitting going on in a marriage (that includes no submitting on the husband's part, either). Women dressing modestly is fine, but then men should dress equally modestly, since women can be just as visually tempted as men can.

"If women want to be treated like men, then the men will abuse them."

Why? Should men be abusing other men? (Answer: no.)

BMMG39 said, "People see one side proclaiming autonomy for women and they see another side arguing that women should 'follow' or 'submit,' and guess which side they're more likely to flock to?"

Well, if that's your reasoning, I guess the babes lose out. The unborn child certainly can do nothing but follow and submit. It's his nature to follow and submit, even after he's born and clutches Mamma's apron strings. Mamma's bigger and stronger. More importantly, Mamma loves him and gives herself for him.

BMMG39 said, "Women ARE like men in that they, too, like men, are all unique human beings."

I wouldn't dispute that claim for a second. Men and women are of the same species, but they are complementary sexes. So they don't have the same role.

I had said, "If women want to be treated like men, then the men will abuse them." BMMG39 asked, "Why?" The reason is the relative physical weakness, generally speaking, of women. You've never heard of the admonition, "Never hit a woman!"? Men knock each other round and have fist fights, and it's not all bad, not necessarily. When men do the same with women, then women will get bruises, miscarry, etc. That definitely is bad. Lorne Gunter had an interesting article in the National Post on March 25, "The surprise is that there aren't more murderous M.T.s." It doesn't entirely support me, but here's a paragraph:

Feminism’s attempts to release women from the strictures of the old sexual morality, and the movement’s encouragement for women to act like men, have produced violent girls like M.T. who use their sexuality as a tool, and think nothing of offering up — via cellphone text messages — "bj’s " and "bang bangs" in order to have a perceived rival, Stefanie Rengel, killed. It’s not the technology that’s changed, it’s the girls.

Finally, I believe what I do because the Bible teaches it. It's what Lorne Gunter referred to as faith-based morality. Here's the apostle Peter (1 Pet. 3:1-7):

Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel—rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.

Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.