Obama losing moderate evangelicals

Before I get to the story I'm posting on, here's a verrry interesting post showing how the New York Times edited a story on Sarah Palin's acceptance speech by removing the word "electrifying", to describe the speech, as well as to describe Obama pimping Hillary and other women to campaign for him in her wake.

And now a story in today's Wall Street Journal:

The moderate evangelical vote is slipping away from Barack Obama.

slipping away.jpg

All year, Sen. Obama has worked hard to win evangelical voters.... At stake are about six million voters - moderate evangelicals who voted for George Bush last time but were intrigued by Sen. Obama....

Several things have battered Sen. Obama's standing with moderate evangelicals:

1) His poor performance at the Saddleback candidates forum, especially (or perhaps entirely) his comment about it being "above my pay grade" to know when life begins....

2) The selection of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, an appealing anti-abortion figure, and, the perceived attacks on her by the media, which led evangelicals to think the "elites" were against them. This sentiment has been skillfully stoked by the Republicans.

3) The Democrats' decision to run radio ads championing Sen. Obama's abortion-rights position without discussing his abortion-reduction agenda....

4) The Obama campaign's failure to combat effectively the charge that he opposed giving protection to infants who survive abortions. It's now become a standard part of the Republican litany that: Sen. Obama supports not only abortion, but also infanticide.

5) Quiet concern among evangelical leaders of faith-based groups that Sen. Obama's faith-based initiative would leave most faith-based groups in the cold because he wouldn't allow them to hire exclusively from their particular faith.

Read on for complaints by the pseudo-Christian Obama-supporting group, Matthew 25, that Palin's fabulous jabs at Obama during her acceptance speech were "un-Christian." Oh, brother.


Comments:

The following is from an e-mail from Monica Miller, founder and director of CITIZENS FOR A PRO-LIFE SOCIETY.

I am quoting her because I believe we all must do as much as we can to be sure McCain is elected.

"Let me be as frank as I can be! If Obama is elected president it will be a dark night for our country and a very dark night for the Prolife movement. We need to act as if everything was at stake in this election--BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS AT STAKE.

"Obama has promised to sign (should congress pass it) the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA). He has promised to nominate only judges who support Roe . v. Wade and this means not only Supreme Court justices --but keep in mind that the President appoints federal judges.

"He will advocate embyonic stem cell research paid for with your tax dollars. He is the most committed abortion supporter to run for the presidency in HISTORY! The demoralizing effects of an Obama victory will be very painful to pro-lifers and the Church. It's the unborn who in the end will suffer! Moreover, it will be further scandal to the Church should Biden wind up as the V.P. A so-called Catholic who advocates pro-death policies contrary to the teachings of the Church. The enemies of life will be emboldened. We must work to stop this all from happening! Let us avert the dark night.

"Yes-- WORK !! This means we must get out the vote for McCain. CONTACT MCCAIN HEADQUARTERS IN YOUR AREA AND VOLUNTEER. We have 2 months. Do not delay. Do not sit at home. Do not be satisfied that you will vote for McCain. We need to get others to vote for him too. This election is so important that we could really drop eveything and devote ourselves to making sure McCain beats Obama.

"Most of all PRAY for a Pro-life Victory. Do a novena--go to daily Mass.

Bless you all. -- Monica Migliorino Miller"


If you are not Catholic, then pray in your own way, but let us pray and work.

Posted by: Opinionated at September 5, 2008 6:57 PM


O: pray AND fast! Whatever your denomination is!!

Posted by: Patricia at September 5, 2008 6:58 PM


Yes I'm praying. And as much as I would love to crush Liberal tripe on this blog I am happily looking forward to spending hours working on the McCain campiagn tonight here in Phoenix, eating pizza and drinking cokes.

McCain-Palin....the real thing.

Posted by: HisMan at September 5, 2008 7:14 PM


I will ask McCain to make ALAN KEYES his official pro-life ambassador (in whatever way he can find to make that happen) and have him do the pro-life work that we need to see done since McCain isn't willing to do it.

And I will ask McCain and Palin in person when they come near my area too. Count on it!

Posted by: Ezek13:19 at September 5, 2008 7:22 PM


Thanks for posting that link I sent you earlier Jill!

COMPARE:

Original

Some Democrats were urging Mr. Obama’s campaign not to underestimate the potential power of Ms. Palin’s electrifying speech to the Republican convention on Wednesday night even among voters not aligned with either party

Edited

Some Democrats were urging Mr. Obama’s campaign not to underestimate the potential power of Ms. Palin’s speech, even among voters not aligned with either party

WHAT!?!?

Posted by: Ezek13:19 at September 5, 2008 7:27 PM


Jill wrote:

"Read on for complaints by the pseudo-Christian Obama supporting group Matthew 25 that Palin's fabulous jabs at Obama during her acceptance speech were "un-Christian.""

HAHA!! Its un-Christian to ever expose "THE ONE's" inexperience and lack of leadership.

Posted by: Ezek13:19 at September 5, 2008 7:28 PM


HisMan; don't drink too many Cokes. Bad for your stomach! ;-D

Posted by: Patricia at September 5, 2008 7:37 PM


Ms Stanek,

You go girl. What barama was really saying was he and michelle did not want to be punished with a grandbaby.

They and thier fellow travelers are attempting to bludgeon Sarah and Bristol Palin with thier own babies.

Matt 24:19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! NIV

Mark 13:17-18 How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for mothers nursing their babies in those days. NLT

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at September 5, 2008 8:10 PM


LTL, (lots to learn)

So you have had a few days to thing about it.

What species of embryo/fetus was in your mother's uterus when she was pregnant with you?

affectionately
your knuckle dragging neanderthal, not bitter, but still clinging to Jesus and my guns

Posted by: kbhvac at September 5, 2008 8:15 PM


* More than half a million more people watched John McCains acceptance speech (38.9 million) than Barak Obamas the week before (38.4 million). *

Posted by: Jasper at September 5, 2008 8:53 PM


Monica Miller is right in appealing to all to pray and work tirelessly to keep the presidency from falling into the hands of a radical pro-abort. This is shaping up to be another nail biter, though by rights McCain should handily defeat his far lesser qualified opponent, but nothing can be taken for granted in these troubled times.

There is another concern which, if it has been addressed it hasn't been given a lot of attention and that is the matter of voter fraud. Having read some time ago that the Dems have 7000 lawyers ready to monitor and challenge allegations of voter fraud it makes one wonder what other mischief they are up to. Another thing is the military vote. Are we sure that they will be counted in their entirety and on time? Recall that Gore tried his best to keep them from counting in 2000. Hopefully the RNC is on top of this.

Posted by: Jerry at September 5, 2008 9:44 PM


Great point, Jerry. With Obama being a product of the highly corrupt Chicago political machine, where voting by dead people, felons, and illegal aliens is a regular occurrence, chances are high that there will be plenty of Deathocrat shenanigans on Nov 4.

Posted by: PJMama at September 5, 2008 10:10 PM


Can anyone tell me how cutting taxes for the middle class, but then increasing them for the job suppliers is going to help people without jobs?

Posted by: Oliver at September 5, 2008 10:13 PM


I do think it was uncalled for her to belittle community organizers, regardless. Good way to belittle people actually trying to work for other people.

Heard this at the doors today:

Jesus was a community organizer...Pontius Pilate was a politician.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 10:26 PM


"Jesus was a community organizer...Pontius Pilate was a politician. "

PiP,

I've seen that line a lot lately. What does it mean? Who said it and what was the context?

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 5, 2008 10:36 PM


"I do think it was uncalled for her to belittle community organizers, regardless. Good way to belittle people actually trying to work for other people.

Heard this at the doors today:

Jesus was a community organizer...Pontius Pilate was a politician.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 10:26 PM"

-------------------

Sorry Pip, you're wrong again. The Bible never referred to Jesus as a Community Organizer. In fact, He was way above Barack Obama's pay grade... However, the Bible did say this about Him:

Adam, the Last (1 Cor. 15:45)

Advocate (1 Jn. 2:1)

All & in All (Col. 3:11)

Almighty (Rev. 1:8)

Altogether Lovely One (Song of Sol. 5:16)

Amen (Rev. 3:14)

Anchor (Heb. 6:19)

Ancient of Days (Dan. 7:9-11 with Rev. 1:13-16)

Angel [of the Lord] (Gen. 16:9-14; Gen. 48:16)

Anointed, His (Ps. 2:2). See also Messiah.

Apostle (Heb. 3:1)

Arm of the Lord (Isa. 53:1)

Alpha & Omega (Rev. 1:8; 21:6)

Author (Heb. 12:2)

Balm of Gilead (Jer. 8:22)

Beginning (Col. 1:18)

Begotten (One and Only John 3:16)

Beloved (Eph. 1:6)

Bishop of your souls (1 Pet. 2:25)

Blessed and only Potentate (1 Tim. 6:15)

Branch (Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5; Zech. 3:8; 6:12; Rev. 11:1)

Bread (John 6:32-33; 6:35)

Bridegroom (Mt. 9:15; Jn. 3:29; Rev. 21:9)

Bright & Morning Star, see Star.

Brightness of His (God's) glory (Heb. 1:3)

Captain of their salvation (Heb. 2:12; Josh. 5:4)

Carpenter['s son] (Mt. 13:55; Mk. 6:3)

Chief[est among ten thousand] Song of Sol. 5:10)

Child, [the young] (Isa. 9:6; Mt. 2:8-21)

Chosen of God (Lk. 23:35)

Christ (Mt. 1:17; Mk. 8:29; Jn. 1:41; Rom. 1:16; 1 Cor. 1:23)

Comforter (Isa. 61:2; Jn. 14:16)

Commander (Isa. 55:4)

Consolation of Israel (Lk. 2:25)

Corn of Wheat (Jn. 12:24)

Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20; see also Isa. 28:16)

Counsellor (Isa. 9:6; Isa. 40:13)

Covert (Isa. 32:2)

Creator of all things (Col. 1:16)

Daysman (Job 9:33)

Dayspring from on high (Lk. 1:78)

Day Star (2 Pet. 1:19). See also Bright & Morning Star.

Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)

Desire of all nations (Hag. 2:7)

Door [of the sheepfold] (Jn. 10:7, 9)

Emmanuel (Mt. 1:23; see also Isa. 7:14; 8:8)

End, see Beginning & the End. End of the Law (Rom 10:4)

Express image of His (God's) person (Heb. 1:3)

Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5; 3:14; 19:11)

Faithful & True (Rev. 19:11)

Father of Eternity (Isa. 9:6)

Fellow of God (Zech. 13:7)

First & the Last (Rev. 1:17)

First begotten of the dead (Rev. 1:5)

Firstborn Firstfruits [of them that slept] (1 Cor. 15:20, 23)

Foundation (Isa. 28:16; 1 Cor. 3:11)

Fountain (Jer. 2:13; Zech. 13:1)

Forerunner (Heb. 6:20)

Friend of sinners (Mt. 11:19; Lk. 7:34)

Fulness of the Godhead (Col. 2:9)

Gift of God (Jn. 4:10; 2 Cor. 9:15)

Glory of God (Isa. 60:1)

God (Jn. 1:1; Mt. 1:23; Rom. 9:5; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 1:8)

Good Master (Mt. 19:16)

Governor (Mt. 2:6)

Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)

Guide (Ps. 48:14)

Head (even Christ) (Eph. 4:15)

Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2)

Helper (Heb. 13:6)

Hiding Place (Isa. 32:2)

High Priest (Heb. 3:1; 7:1)

Holy Child (Acts 4:30)

Holy One [& the Just] (Acts 2:27; 3:14)

Hope of Israel (Jer. 17:3)

Horn of salvation (Ps. 18:2; Lk. 1:69)

I AM (Jn. 8:24, 58)

Image of [the invisible] God (2 Cor. 4:4; Col. 1:15)

Intercessor (Heb. 7:25)

Jehovah (Isa. 26:4; 40:3)

Jesus (Mt. 1:21)

Judge (Micah 5:1; Acts 10:42)

Just One (Acts 7:52)

King (Zech. 14:16)

Kinsman (Ruth 2:14)

Lamb [of God] (Jn. 1:29, 36; 1 Pet 1:19; Rev. 5:6, 12; 7:17)

Last, see First. (Rev. 22:13)

Lawgiver (Isa. 33:22)

Life (1 Jn. 1:2)

Light (Jn. 12:35)

Lion of the tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5)

Lord [& Saviour] (1 Cor. 12:3; 2 Pet. 1:11), see also Master.

Man (Jn. 19:5; Acts 17:31; 1 Tim. 2:5). See also Son of Man.

Master (Mt. 8:19)

Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)

Merciful High Priest (Heb. 2:17)

Mercy Seat (Rom. 3:24-25)

Messiah (Dan. 9:25; Jn. 1:41; 4:25)

Mighty God (Isa. 9:6; 63:1)

Minister of the Sanctuary (Heb. 8:2)

Nazarene (Mk. 1:24)

Nobleman (Lk. 19:12)

Offering (Eph. 5:2; Heb. 10:10)

Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16). See also Root.

Ointment poured forth (Song of Sol. 1:3)

Omega. See Alpha & Omega.

One and Only Son, see Son. (John 3:16)

Passover (1 Cor. 5:7)

Peace, our (Eph. 2:14)

Physician (Mt. 9:12; Lk. 4:23)

Plant of Renown (Ezek. 34:29)

Potentate, Blessed and only, see Blessed Prince [& a Saviour] (Acts 3:15; 5:31)

Prophet (Acts 3:22-23)

Propitiation (1 Jn. 2:2; 4:10)

Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24)

Priest (Heb. 4:14)

Quickening (life-giving) Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)

Rabbi (Jn. 3:2; Mt. 26:25; Jn. 20:16)

Ransom (1 Tim. 2:6)

Redeemer, Redemption (Isa. 59:20; 60:16; 1 Cor. 1:30)

Refuge (Isa. 25:4)

Resurrection & the Life (Jn. 11:25)

Righteousness (Jer. 23:6; 33:16; 1 Cor. 1:30)

Rock [of offence] (Deut. 32:15; 1 Cor. 10:4; Rom. 9:33; 1 Pet. 2:8)

Rod (Isa. 11:1)

Root (Rev. 22:16)

Rose of Sharon (Song of Sol. 2:1)

Sacrifice (Eph. 5:2)

Same, the (Heb. 1:12)

Sanctification (1 Cor. 1:30)

Saviour [of the world] (Lk. 1:47; 2:11; 1 Jn. 4:14)

Second Man, see Man.

Seed of Abraham (Gal. 3:16, 19)

Seed Servant (Isa. 42:1; 49:5-7; Mt. 12:18)

Shadow of a great Rock (Isa. 32:2)

Shepherd ( 1 Peter 5:4)

Shiloh (Gen. 49:10)

Son (Isa. 9:6; 1 Jn. 4:14)

Sower (Mt. 13:37)

Star (Num. 24:17)

Stone (Psalm 118:22)

Sun of Righteousness (Mal. 4:2)

Surety (Heb. 7:22)

Teacher (Mt. 26:18; Jn. 3:2; 11:28). See also Master.

Tender Plant (Isa. 53:2)

Testator (Heb. 9:15-17)

True Bread, see Bread.

Truth (Jn. 14:6)

Vine (Jn. 15:1, 5)

Way (Jn. 14:6)

Wisdom [of God] (1 Cor. 1:24, 30)

Wonderful (Isa. 9:6)

Word (Jn. 1:1)

Posted by: HisMan at September 5, 2008 10:46 PM


PIP being intentionally dense, as always. Hey PIP, does your neck get sore, considering it's holding up a head full of concrete?

Sarah Palin was not belittling community organizers; she was belittling the idea that Obama's time as a community organizer somehow makes him more qualified to be president than Palin's time as a mayor qualifies her.

Palin wouldn't make fun of community organizers; Palin WAS a community organizer! PTA, anyone?

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 5, 2008 10:50 PM


"I've seen that line a lot lately. What does it mean? Who said it and what was the context?"


Well Palin said that she claimed that her position as mayor is 'sort of like a community organizer...with actual responsibilities.' (Or something like that). So, she basically hinted that community organizer positions are worthless. Guiliani similarly belittled the position.
Jesus was in a way a community organizer- he worked in the people themselves, to help them step up, improve their lives, and encourage social justice (and spiritually have eternal life). I'd say Jesus had plenty of 'responsibilities' doing so.
Pontius Pilate had 'responsibilities' like making sure he didn't piss off the masses...and look...now he is one of history's greatest villains.

Her and Guiliani's belittling of the people who actually work to ensure the well-being of people in their own communities are spitting in the faces of everyone who benefits from them (and since some community organizations promote some politicians it may have well been themselves, as well). How sad.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 10:55 PM


John,

exactly.

...


Michelle's Boot Camps For Radicals:

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Democrats' reintroduction of militant Michelle Obama in Denver was supposed to show her softer side. But it only highlighted a radical part of her resume: Public Allies.

Barack Obama was a founding member of the board of Public Allies in 1992, resigning before his wife became executive director of the Chicago chapter of Public Allies in 1993. Obama plans to use the nonprofit group, which he features on his campaign Web site, as the model for a national service corps. He calls his Orwellian program, "Universal Voluntary Public Service."

Big Brother had nothing on the Obamas. They plan to herd American youth into government-funded reeducation camps where they'll be brainwashed into thinking America is a racist, oppressive place in need of "social change."


But its real mission is to radicalize American youth and use them to bring about "social change" through threats, pressure, tension and confrontation the tactics used by the father of community organizing, Saul "The Red" Alinsky.

Not all the recruits appreciate the PC indoctrination. "It was too touchy-feely," said Nelly Nieblas, 29, of the 2005 Los Angeles class. "It's a lot of talk about race, a lot of talk about sexism, a lot of talk about homophobia, talk about -isms and phobias."

Posted by: Jasper at September 5, 2008 11:00 PM


" Hey PIP, does your neck get sore, considering it's holding up a head full of concrete?"

I don't know, does your head hurt, trying to think up creative insults all the time?


The republicans implied the community organizer position as worthless on several occasions. Saying "they didn't belittle the position, they said Obama's position was worthless" is reaching it. It's like me campaigning for city council on the premise "she worked as a nurse, but I was a hospital administrator, which is kind of like a nurse...with ACTUAL responsibilities!" and asking nurses not to feel offended by it.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 11:00 PM


http://time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/what_a_community_organizer_doe.html

I found this link if it helps Bobby.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 11:03 PM


ahhh well pip, considering all the crap that's been spewed about Sarah Palin by the Left, I don't feel so bad for poor, beat on Obama. He's a big boy, so if he can't take the heat, he better get out of the kitchen.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at September 5, 2008 11:04 PM


Elizabeth, we aren't worried about Obama's feelings. I've been talking about how her attack in essence attacked all other people working in those same positions.

I'm saying that their attacks slammed community organizers working for the good of the people. What a great way to promote 'change' republicans!

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 11:06 PM


Oh PIP, you're sooo right. Palin is such a mean, mean woman. She definitely insulted people who have done exactly what she has done in the past, working in the community to help people, because she is sooo mean. Cue the sad violin music! :-(((((((((((((((

PIP, are you a person or a caricature?

Let me repeat myself, though it's clearly a waste of time. She didn't say that being a community organizer is worthless. She was talking about how Obama and his acolytes have been saying that being the mayor of Wasilla is worthless. But being the mayor of Wasilla just happens to be a lot like being a community organizer... except that you have actual responsibilities. That's the point. Get it? No, of course not.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 5, 2008 11:08 PM


Hey PIP, why did Obama slam puppies? And Obama slammed kittens, too. Why does Obama hate puppies and kittens? Why is he so mean? :-(((((

I wonder... if I post this enough times, will it become true? That seems to be PIP's M.O., after all.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 5, 2008 11:10 PM


...and why is Obama putting down small town mayors....do you know what message that sends PIP?

many small town mayors work their butts off.

Sarah Palin has always been in leadership positions with responsibility. Obama has not.

Posted by: Jasper at September 5, 2008 11:12 PM


John,

I can understand why you don't find Palin's comments wrong. You love belittling everyone who thinks differently from you.
I'm just glad we haven't met in real life. Going door to door trying to get kids health care, you find a lot of people who just want to be mean. But at least those people know their comments are out of line.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 11:12 PM


Jasper,

I don't like Obama belittling her position either.
However, it must be said that neither of them have the kind of long term experience their running mates have. It just makes it an even race.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 11:13 PM


PIP, why did Obama belittle puppies? He insulted them! Why, why, why?! Puppies are cute and cuddly, and Obama bittled them. Waah.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 5, 2008 11:14 PM


*yawn.*

John, you are boring. I have a party to go to that I'm late for.

Have fun being sarcastic and alone!

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 11:16 PM


Can someone please explain to me why Obama belittled puppies? I really want to know why Obama is so mean to puppies.

Great job reaching out with hope and change, Obama - by belittling puppies!! So mean! :-((((((

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 5, 2008 11:16 PM


1) His poor performance at the Saddleback

SG 1. I disagree because I saw a man examining himself rather than answering impulsively, with absolutisms, but your opinion and argument are valid.

2) The selection of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, an appealing antiabortion figure and the perceived attacks on her by the media, which led evangelicals to think the "elites" were against them. This sentiment has been skillfully stoked by the Republicans.

SG 2. So evangelicals didn't think the "elites" were against them, before Sarah? And 'stoking' something suggests you appreciate it is being 'inflamed' beyond its normal state, an untruth as it were.

3) The Democrats' decision to run radio ads championing Sen. Obama's abortion-rights position without discussing his abortion-reduction agenda....

SG3. Possibly ... sounds very reasonable.

4) The Obama campaign's failure to combat effectively the charge that he opposed giving protection to infants who survive abortions. It's now become a standard part of the Republican litany that Sen. Obama supports not only abortion but also infanticide.

SG 4. Their failure to effectively combat an untruth, you seem to be saying ... 'them' crazy-heinous-untruthz (R) hard things to imagine before they happen, hard to imagine any be the most gullible would accept them

5) Quiet concern among evangelical leaders of faith-based groups that Sen. Obama's faith
-based initiative would leave most faith-based groups in the cold because he wouldn't allow them to hire only from their particular faith.

SG5. Again quite possibly

Posted by: Snerd Gronk at September 5, 2008 11:18 PM


Praise Obama, PIP's leaving. Have fun going door to door promoting Communism! ...for the children!

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 5, 2008 11:18 PM


MisHan: " The Bible never referred to Jesus as a Community Organizer."

SG: (R)ight ... in fact His preference was community disorganization. That's why he was turnin' all them tables over in the Temple.

Snerd
P.s. If Jesus were alive today and could only chose between Mc'Cane' Oil Lobbist and a Community Organizer, which do you imagine Him choosing?

Posted by: Snerd Gronk at September 5, 2008 11:24 PM


"However, it must be said that neither of them have the kind of long term experience their running mates have. It just makes it an even race"

No it does not. Obama's leadership experience is not even close to Palin's.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/08/30/sarah-palin-vs-barack-obama/

Posted by: Jasper at September 5, 2008 11:26 PM


"Their failure to effectively combat an untruth, you seem to be saying ... 'them' crazy-heinous-untruthz (R) hard things to imagine before they happen, hard to imagine any be the most gullible would accept them"

Snerd Gork,

a challenge, please explain what is untrue.

Posted by: Jasper at September 5, 2008 11:29 PM


Jasper, I'd tell you to save your breath (key strokes?), but it's just too much fun, in'n'it?

But seriously, the normal strategy is to draw us off into pointless discussions about tangential issues, so that we're all tied up and we get off message about how ABORTION KILLS CHILDREN.

This strategy is currently being employed in this thread. Everybody knows that Palin didn't insult community organizers, because that would be insulting herself - she was in the PTA. Everybody knows that she was actually fighting back against Obama's claim that being mayor of Wasilla is useless.

But, see, Palin kicked Democrat butt so bad in her speech which was watched by 40 million Americans that they're still licking their wounds, coming up with ridiculous reasons why Palin is mean, or whatever. So instead of talking about how awesome Palin is, we're stuck defending Palin against stupid attacks.

And that is the real strategy. To recap:

1 - Obama supporters spew complete nonsense
2 - We react appropriately, calling it nonsense
3 - Obama supporters repeat nonsense
4 - We again point out the nonsense
5 - Obama supporters continue to repeat nonsense, knowing full-well that it's nonsense
6 - We feel obligated to correct the record, and we keep on trying to do so, when it's actually futile
7 - Obama supporters giggle with glee as they get us to waste our time and pull our focus away from important issues

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 5, 2008 11:36 PM


John, agreed, totally. They are really worried. Obama has been campaigning for 19 months, it was suppose to a landslide victory for the dems. Now it's even.


check this out: ( for you PIP!)

Obama vs. Sarah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obrd9uHpGRE

Posted by: Jasper at September 5, 2008 11:53 PM


4) The Obama campaign's failure to combat effectively the charge that he opposed giving protection to infants who survive abortions. It's now become a standard part of the Republican litany that Sen. Obama supports not only abortion but also infanticide.

SG: Firstly, Jill's precise wording. gives evidence that there is a mind at work there, capable of objective assessment, as well as deep commitment.

Despite political differences, I would say Jill's observation is accurate. Obama has not countered this assertion effectively, although he has denied it.

However, there is a demographic out there for whom the more heinous an allegation associated with a 'liberal', the more accurate it 'appears' to them. Debate on that level seems rather pointless.

Snerd

Posted by: Snerd Gronk at September 6, 2008 12:08 AM


Jasper

The conventions, so far, have been a "net plus'' for Democrat Barack Obama, according to an analysis by the Gallup Poll.
[...]
The two were dead-even in the daily tracks heading into their conventions two weeks ago.
[...]
The latest results of the Gallup daily track today - a compilation of surveys taken over three days, including the last day of the Republican National Convention - show Obama favored among 48 percent of those surveyed and McCain 44 percent.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/obama_mccain_polls_plus_for_ob.html

Posted by: Snerd Gronk at September 6, 2008 12:15 AM


Snerd,

Think about it logically. What does infanticide mean? What does the word support mean?

Infanticide means to "kill an infant." To kill is to either cause the death of or to deprive life from.

Now you may be confused about what it means to support a concept.

A lot of people assume that support means direct support. It is also support to remove an obstacle.

Consider a homeless person. You could support a homeless person by directly giving aid. You can also support a homeless person by removing an obstacle, such as unbearing mosquitos.

To put it all together....Obama voted against a bill that would prevent doctors from depriving life from an infant. By removing an obstacle (the bill), Obama expressed support for the action of depriving life from an infant, even if in an indirect method.

I hope that explains our logic.

Posted by: lauren at September 6, 2008 12:26 AM


That was me as Lauren Snerd.

Posted by: Oliver at September 6, 2008 12:29 AM


Snerd,

You disapoint me....

"While both conventions are now over, measurement of public reaction to them is not. Results, based on interviewing conducted Sept. 2-4, include just one day of interviewing conducted after Wednesday night's widely viewed acceptance speech by McCain's vice presidential running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. Most interviewing Thursday night was conducted before McCain's acceptance speech, so Gallup Poll Daily tracking results will start to reflect its impact in Saturday's report. The full impact of the GOP convention on voter preferences will not be known until Monday's report, the first in which all interviews will have been conducted following the convention's conclusion.
"

My quote wins. I got it from this site...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110065/Gallup-Daily-Obamas-Lead-Now-Points.aspx

Posted by: Oliver at September 6, 2008 12:33 AM


I suppose that you can now admit "swamppolitics" as an inaccarute source?

In fact, considering the ease of finding that information, you could even consider them a biased source.

Posted by: Oliver at September 6, 2008 12:35 AM


Jill,

Im not one to tell someone else what to do with their blog but I would appreciate you even more if you would kindly blog about the lie that Palin slashed funds to Covenant House.

http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/EWThrockmorton/11581381/print/

The funds in fact increased under her Governor ship by greater than 300%.

Posted by: Oliver at September 6, 2008 1:03 AM


Jasper

The National Polls obscure the fact that much of Mc'Cane's' vote is consolidated in big leads in very (R)ed states. Obama on the other hand leads in more states, and most importantly in the Electoral College

In the Poll of Polls, for Electoral College Votes
Mc'Cane'
179 (33.5%) Strong to Leaning,

Obama
238 (44.5&)Strong to Leaning

Toss Up
126 (22.0%)

With the current configuration, for Mc'Cane' to win with just 270 college votes, he has to take about 91 votes or 75% of the Toss Up states ... Not a likely occurrence. Obama only 32 votes

In short, I think Palin generated energy with the lethargic base, but she is and will be counter-productive with moderates. She still has Troopergate to deal with and the best the (R) can do is suppress and obstruct that investigation ... Not a reassuring position for the undecided electorate and probably a reminder of Plamegate.

Moreover, Mc'Cane', in order to 'float' himself as an agent of CHANGE, has himself running against Obama and "W". The fact that he voted with Bush 90% of the time, makes this narrative unconvincing. If he can not run against Bush, then he can not establish himself as an agent of Change against Obama, and the Obama narrative, "4 More Years of the Bush Admin", becomes the dominant narrative ... and Obama wins!

Things will change but I think this is where we are at, after both conventions ... and after the Mc'Cane' Hail Mary.

What other tricks has he got left? I guess he can hope "W" starts a "W"a(R) for him, but Biden might get invited there too for consultation. After "W" not getting invited to the Convention, NO tribute, I wonder how that animosity will play out ... Not overly helpful to Mc'Cane' I think ...

As Mark Shields pointed out, "If McCain looses this election, it'll be the second Presidential election McCain has lost because of "W" ... 2000 and 2008."


Snerd

Posted by: Snerd Gronk at September 6, 2008 1:15 AM


Yes John:

If PIP can rant about evolution long enough she thinks she'll get everyone to believe in it and even be able to convince God that the book He wrote was wrong after all. I mean, "Finding Darwin's God" tells God how He created the world, just in case He forgot. You know, He's quite old and needs some help now and then from us yungin's

She might even be able to convince us all that she's pro-life.

Pip: Even God doesn't give in to the rants and tantrums of a very spoiled little girl.

Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 1:20 AM


Jasper:

The blog idiot has returned. Can you refer it to Dr. Phil?

Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 1:25 AM


Olie: My quote wins. I got it from this site...

You might be (R)ight, however, the explanation of electoral college vote count is more telling.

Snerd

Posted by: Snerd Gronk at September 6, 2008 1:27 AM


My wish to you snerdly,
That you may have your mother bring you to a "doctor" and have you torn into bloody pieces and sucked into a vaccuum. Like the saying goes, you will reap just what you sow.

Posted by: truthseeker at September 6, 2008 3:06 AM


HisMan,

but he lets you rant and rave illogically....

Seriously, this has turned into a PiP bashfest when I was trying to merely point out blatantly inappropriate language. It only shows how inappropriate you all really are. I see nothing else here to respond to.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 6, 2008 4:00 AM


Has anyone noticed that though Obama claims to be pro-choice (which we all know is a euphemism for pro-abortion),he commented at the Saddleback Forums that we should support a woman whether she decides to have an abortion or keep it--and we should provide the means for her to keep it(characteristically, he mumbled the latter remarks)? Have you EVER seen Obama photographed anywhere close to a crisis pregnancy center or any other supportive facility? NO! It is only with Planned Parenthood clinics and in NARAL events because they line his pocketbooks.

He claims he would reduce abortion by encouraging more sex education. Pro-aborts also said the would make abortions legal and rare. That's what they said 35+ years ago before Roe vs Wade.--50 million is a reduction? Legal, but rare? Please.

We (as a society) have been duped. We are the classic frog who dies because the water has been heated so slowly he doesn't realize he's being boiled to death. We've been told abortion needed to be legal because so many women were taking coat hangers to themselves (in actuality the number of self-inflicted fatalities from attempted abortions in the year prior to Roe v Wade was 39). How, by any stretch of the imagination, does that justify the 3,000 - 4,000 child killings PER DAY now? Simply put--abortion has now become a RIGHT--a women's HEALTH issue. Many people think that this means problems of a PHYSICAL nature--but, no, included in this rationalization, is MENTAL health i.e. if you are the least bit depressed about your pregnancy, that is reason enough to kill your child. Believe me, if you want to deal with a real case of mental depression, deliberately killing your own child will do it. Compound that with having a child later in life, and finally admitting to your own self that you played God with another human being's life...not pretty.

The reason I am pro-life--because I have experienced what pro-choice is and I can tell you first hand that it only causes suffering and pain. There is certainly one thing the child-killing industry is not, and that is, NOT HELP!

Posted by: Vicki G at September 6, 2008 4:27 AM


Vicki G,

Thank you for your excellent comments. Obama was mentored by an extremist "pastor" and the radical, murderous Bill Ayers. He has been programmed to be a walking-talking robot for the radicals, the pro-aborts, the socialists who want to revolutionize our great country. Perhaps a small human side of him was coming out when he remarked that women should be supported if they want to keep their baby? But of course, he would not be caught dead in or near a crisis pregnancy center. Only God knows what is in this guy's heart.

I am so sorry about your experience with what you called "pro-choice". I hope that you have been able to find peace and reconciliation with God. This is why I support crisis pregnancy centers and personally do sidewalk counseling at abortion clinics. If only more people would get personally involved in the pro-life cause; speaking the truth in love when the subject comes up in conversations; getting involved in pro-life activities (not just posting comments in blogs!), and especially committing to spending a couple of hours once a month in prayer in front of an abortion clinic - the modern day Calvary, where Christ is crucified once again in his precious little infants. But we must remember that as bad as the loss of a baby's life is, all is not lost if the mother has a change of heart, seeks God's forgiveness and does not do it again. Jesus said to the woman caught in sin, "Neither do I accuse you. Go and sin no more."

God bless you.

Posted by: Opinionated at September 6, 2008 5:10 AM


Intellectual Inconsistency

I was once charged with trespass for refusing to move from the doorway of a building where pre-natal humans were being killed. In the subsequent trial I was interviewing perspective jurors. They all answered questions under oath, understanding that lying would be perjury, a crime. I read the part of the 14th amenndment to the U.S. Constitution which states: 'nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

I asked each perspective juror which of these three rights was pre-eminent, life, liberty, or property. Each one of them said liberty was the most important. I then asked them how you could possibly enjoy liberty if you had been denied life. They all said you could not. I then said, 'If that is true, then you would have to say the right to life trumps all others, would you not?' Each one of them, in turn, agreed. Life is numero uno/number one.

Now here is the interesting part. I could only interview one juror at a time. The remainder of the jury pool was present and heard me ask all the previous persons the same questions. But when it came their turn, each one of them answered the same way. Initially, liberty was the most important right, but when asked how you could enjoy liberty without life, logic dictated that the right to life is our most valuable right.

All the perspective jurors answered the questions honestly. But initially they were all honestly wrong. When required to exercise logic they had to acknowledge the truth: Without life every other right is meaningless.

What kind of embryo/fetus was in your mother's uterus when she was pregnant with you?

Here are some clues: not bovine, not feline, not canine.

I know this is really difficult for some of you. You do not want jeopardize your bliss by giving up on your willful ignorance.

Are you smarter than a fifth grader?

And all the fifth graders said, "Human!"

What do you say?

ps:They convicted me of criminal trespass. I believe they would have voted to execute me if the penalty had been available. I know some of you would have.


Posted by: kbhvac at September 6, 2008 6:03 AM


PIP,

I don't like Obama belittling her position either.
However, it must be said that neither of them have the kind of long term experience their running mates have. It just makes it an even race.

It can never be and EVEN race. Obama is running for President. Palin is running for VICE president.

It's nonsense to constantly compare them.

Secondly, I responded to that Jesus/Pilate comment on another post.

Jesus was NOT a community organizer. He was a King.

Pontius Pilate washed his hands of the whole mess unable to make a decision...like someone else I know.

The reason people are up in arms about the community organizer comment is that it is a reflection of everything else he says. It's like reading an ad in a dating magazine. You know..."has great personality"...which really means ugly as sin? It's a trick everyone has used to fatten their resume. Sort of like calling a stay at home mom a domestic engineer.

It doesn't really mean anything. Not that helping your community get organized doesn't mean anything, but that the phrase "Community Organizer" doesn't mean anything. It's just another pretty turn of phrase that has no substance.

It's not a cut against people that do community work, rather a cut against Obama's constant empty speeches. Lots of pretty words, but no substance.

Posted by: mk at September 6, 2008 6:51 AM


The latest results of the Gallup daily track today - a compilation of surveys taken over three days, including the last day of the Republican National Convention - show Obama favored among 48 percent of those surveyed and McCain 44 percent.

We won't know til Monday the earliest, what the polls say AFTER the RNC. Until then, we're still seeing the results after the DNC.

Time will tell.

Posted by: mk at September 6, 2008 6:59 AM


Hey guys,

Chill on the PIP fest...I'm personally quite proud of her. And she has never once said that there is no God. She didn't even argue for the "randomness" of our beginnings. She was just trying to point out that there is an element of science involved in the theory of evolution. Wasn't arguing for or against a creator.

You can disagree with her, but really, she is one of ours and I think you were a bit harsh...

Posted by: mk at September 6, 2008 7:06 AM


test

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at September 6, 2008 7:54 AM


I still loves you, Pip..I just get tired of the "They're picking on Obama" stuff.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at September 6, 2008 9:47 AM


kbhvac @ 6:03,

Please send your comments to the editors of ten major newspapers. Brilliant.

Posted by: Janet at September 6, 2008 9:54 AM


mk @ 6:59,

I don't know which poll was quoted on the late news last night, but they said Obama and McCain are tied at 42%. Not sure where the other 16% fall. Undecided?

Posted by: Janet at September 6, 2008 9:58 AM


We made 956 calls last night to independents in Tucson, a typicailly Democrat majority area here in Arizona.

The votes were 3 to 1 in favor of McCain.

Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 10:12 AM


I was thinking about 3 of the major lies about Palin:

1. That she would curtail wasteful federal spending. In fact Wasilla had received no federal funds for years until she hired a lobbyist and got $26- 33 million in federal pork.
Her current earmark list for Alaska is $200 million. Alaska receives twice as much earmark funds per capita as the lower 48, and Wasilla may be a per capita pork record.

2. That she opposed the "bridge to nowhere". She ardently supported it until it became the national joke and KEPT the $233 million in federal funds given for the bridge, and applied it to other projects.

3. That she sold the state jet for a profit on e bay. The jet was sold at a loss through a private broker. Its primary function, to tranport prisoners, is now carried out by other carriers, Whether it saved any money is unknown, but could be determined by audit.

Any one of these three lies about a person's "accomplishments" on a resume, when discovered, would lead to a decision not to hire or grounds for immediate discharge in any private business and most gevernment offices.

Mc Cain/Palin: complete disrespect for the truth.

Posted by: LTL at September 6, 2008 10:23 AM


LTL,

She never said she sold it on EBAY she said she PUT it on EBAY.

She never said she ALWAYS opposed the bridge. She said that in the end she opposed the bridge.

She said WASTEFUL spending. Not spending.

You really gotta get a hobby.

Posted by: mk at September 6, 2008 10:32 AM


mk 7:06am

I agree. I am also very fond of PIP and greatly respect her work with Amnesty International. She corrected a major piece of misinformation on my part concerning the sexual abuse of Native American women. We certainly have disagreed on issues, but I have always liked and respected her. A mutual admiration society would make for one very boring blog.
As for the evolution vs theology debate, I will stick to my time honored tradition of not touching religious debates with a ten foot pole.

I would also encourage fellow bloggers to dispense with the snide personal insults to PIP. Either intelligently argue or please don't post. We're not children in a sandbox and shouldn't conduct ourselves as such.

Posted by: Mary at September 6, 2008 10:44 AM


LTL,

Who cares if the jet sold for a loss? She got rid of it and spared Alaska taxpayers the expense of upkeep, crew, and gas for a private jet.

Wasn't e-bay a joke?

Posted by: Mary at September 6, 2008 10:46 AM


"She never said she sold it on EBAY she said she PUT it on EBAY."

You are right mk!

This statement of hers at the RNC conventionwas meant to draw a laugh, connect with the voters, and show a bit of ingenuity. She didn't claim it to be her greatest accomplishment of all time! Lighten up, people!
. . . . . . . . . .
This Palin-bashing is beginning to look like the high-school rivalry between the popular cheerleaders and the wannabees. Grow up girls!

Posted by: Janet at September 6, 2008 10:53 AM


No pip bashing or I might have to open a can of whoop-ass on you.

Posted by: truthseeker at September 6, 2008 10:56 AM


"The reason I am pro-life--because I have experienced what pro-choice is and I can tell you first hand that it only causes suffering and pain. There is certainly one thing the child-killing industry is not, and that is, NOT HELP!

Posted by: Vicki G at September 6, 2008 4:27 AM"

Vicki:

The "right" to legally kill an unborn baby in the womb is not about women's rights at all. Why do I say this? Because more than half the babies that are killed are female.

Abortion is about political power, and the means by which to hold that power. The Democrats in leadership know this. They are in bed with Planned Parenthood, NOW, and NARAL which lulled and seduced women to sleep with them by using terms like "planned parenthood", "pro-choice", "reproductive rights".

How in the world does the term "planned parenthood", where the major goal of such an organization is to terminate parenthood, represent what it does?

How in the world does the term "pro-choice" have anything to do with abortion? I mean I'm "pro-choice" too. I am for the choice to where I can live, who I can worship, what food I eat, what I do for a living, etc. However, I cannot be pro-murder because it is wrong and therefore, no such "choice" exists.

These groups are actually radical militants. Obama is a radical militant, not in outward appearance but for what he stands for. What would you call any leader or group that would advocate the wholesale slaughter of millions of any other group of human beings? What about toddlers? What about certain ethnic groups or races? What about the elderly? I mean, you could put forth semanticized reasons to kill any group of people and if you say it long enough you can get people to agree with it WHO HAVE REALLY NOT THOUGHT about the consequences. Nazi Germany was proof of this. The American Abortion Holocaust is proof of this.

Sarah Palin has exposed the underbellies of the abortion movement and all women should take note. In fact, Sarah Palin is the ultimate women's American success story, a role that every women should strive to follow. Because Palin is pro-life and threatens the power that pro-aborts use to maintain that power, they attack her mercilessly. This is what is so deceptive, so diabolical about the Democrat Party and the people that support it.

Any political candidate who is willing to embrace abortion as a right is willing to do it for one reason, and one reason only, for votes. That alone should disqualify a candidate.

Barack Obama is especailly despicable because black women represnt 6% of the polpulation and have 36% of abortions. Of all black leaders he should be pro-life.

Now any black man that would do nothing against a disease that had these same statistics been in play would be tarred and feathered and that by the black community. He would be seen as a racist against his own race! Let's say Barack wasn't for the elimination of sickle cell anemia but actually supported an organization that could inject the disease into a black woman based on her "choice"? Should he support that "choice" for "choice's" sake even though that "choice" reaped tremedous destruction? OF COURSE NOT! Think, think, and think some more.

Wake up America, wake up before it is too late.

Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 11:17 AM


MK:

I do agree that we shouldn't gang up on any one person, howevre I think PIP sets herself up for that. I also agree that we shouldn'd use snide remarks and for that I am sorry.

However, I do love you but, sorry, I don't agree with you regarding allowing PIP to continue in her fence sitting. If she is to have any chance at becoming a Sarah Palin she must be confronted with the truth. That's the true choice of life...to be confronted with the truth and to either accept it or reject it, not to be just "present".

This was posted by PIP:

"I do think it was uncalled for her to belittle community organizers, regardless. Good way to belittle people actually trying to work for other people.

Heard this at the doors today:

Jesus was a community organizer...Pontius Pilate was a politician.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 5, 2008 10:26 PM"

______________

This was one post of many over the last few days where the compromise bordered on the surreal. The day before was classic. PIP is one confused person.

Hal posted the same tripe. Sarah Palin did not belittle community organizers. These were obvious talking points of the Liberal media. PIP chose to chime in with them.

We never said PIP didn't believe in God or that she wasn't trying to put a "God" twist on evolution. However, she demonstrates a capacity to compromise and distort the tuth, even if it means she has to outpost and outspew everyone until she gets her way.

PIP does not support Sarah Palin, s strong woman pro-life candidate. Her posts are evidence of that. It is obvious she supports Barack Obama, a radical pro-abort and represents herself as pro-life because she thinks his policies will result in less abortions. Right, Planned Parenthood supports a candidate whose policies result in less money into their coffers. They know this will never happen as long as abortion is "safe, legal and rare" Give me a break.

PIP is double-minded and the only cure for that is the raw truth. Her posts deserve a strong response as they are typcailly packed with half truths which are really just whole lies.

I have 5 great kids. They don't lie. They don't compromise. They are that way because I trained them to be that way. I never once let them walk away with a pat on the back for something I knew they did wrong. I did not enable bad behavior even if it meant they wouldn't like me for teh moment. In fact, if certain boundaries were crossed, they knew exactly what the consequences would be. Parenting is not a game, it is a huge responsibility and only to be udnertaken at the direction of God's admonition.

Jesus, the Son of God, the Creator, rebuked a mere human being, Peter, with the words, "get thee behind me satan" and for whose sake? And I am sure he didn't whisper.

If PIP wants to speak truth, I'll keep quiet, however, a truly non-sexist blog will not see anyone's gender or age as an excuse to allow the spewing of lies. If you or Jasper or even Jill said the same things PIP says, my responses would be the same. PIP acts like a spoiled child. To enable this behavior is destructive.

I've spoken in front of the family now and you can think me harsh or whatever, but, I don't see it being very loving to enable a young girl who has a pattern of approval seeking and intellectual bullying to be allowed to continue in her dishonesty.

The value and effectiveness of this site is its integrity, not in allowing half-baked truths to go unchallenged.

Having said that.....PIP....you are a very intelligent person. However, your intelligence would be properly channelled with a heavy dose of God's Word. I suggest you get a One-Year Bible and read it through. I have done it many, many times, and still do it. The effect of doing that will change and transform you if for one reason; in that you are willing to submit your pride to the tutelage of God's Word. My intent is not to harm you but bring you closer to Him.

I will continue to challenge you every time yoo get off track, because I love you along with all the others on this site. That's it. Love me or hate me, I don't care. It's not about me, it's about Him.

Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 12:11 PM


Hisman,

Of course I love you. And I'm certainly not disagreeing with you about the Jesus/Pilate thing.
I told PIP as much myself. As a matter of fact I have a book by Bishop Sheen in front of me as I type...the title of the chapter is Pilate:A lesson in political power. Hoping to find even more ways to use Pilate to point out the similarities to Obama!

You should call her out when she is speaking falsely.

She was just being attacked. It's never the message. It's the delivery.

I know you love PIP. How could you not love PIP.
You were just doing Daddy Duty...hah, I can do a play on words too...

Posted by: mk at September 6, 2008 12:19 PM


There is something alarming about that brief description of how Our Lord died. No other name is mentioned in the Creed except the name of one judge - Judas, Annas, and Caiaphas are not mentioned. The earthly life of Our Lord is quickly passed over, but one significant detail is retained: "He suffered under Pontius Pilate". This is a record not only of an historical fact but also a prophecy of what will happen to Christ in His Mystical Body from time to time: Namely, His Church in the dar days of history will go down to a seemingly final death and persecution, suffering under Pontius Pilate - the power of an omnipotent state.

But whatever be the reason for these trying days, of this we may be certain: The Christ Who suffered under Pontius Pilate signed Pilate's death warrant; it was not Pilate who signed Christs's.

The bald fact the enemies of God must face is that modern civilization has conquered the world, but in doing so has lost its soul...

Bishop Fulton Sheen/Characters of the Passion

Posted by: mk at September 6, 2008 12:28 PM


Yes MK:

Howdy Doody was doing Daddy Dooty scooping up the Blogger Pooty.

Bishop Sheen was a really a Protestant in a Catholic robe and Yamika, protesting all the BS of the time.

Certainly a man ahead of his time and for all seasons. Thomas More anyone?

Gee, can a man spout ancient truths and still be ahead of his time? I guess so if you believe God is eternal.

Here's the real hoot about PP (not Planned Parenthood and yes Planned Parenthood too) Pontius Pilate. The Truth was (is) standing right in from of him (them) and he (they) still didn't (don't) recognize or see Him.

And, the same question is being asked today: "What is Truth".

The same answer is being given: "I am the way, the truth and the life".

Yes Pontius Pilate represented the world system, blind as always.

And those who can't see it will suffer the same fate as PP.

Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 1:06 PM


"She never said she sold it on EBAY she said she PUT it on EBAY.

She never said she ALWAYS opposed the bridge. She said that in the end she opposed the bridge.

She said WASTEFUL spending. Not spending.

You really gotta get a hobby."

Hahaha. Good job MK at carving LTL into pieces. What a moron. It amazes me how liberals seem to make such amazing language shifts and flawed assumptions. You did a good job of pointing out all of them. I think you could be a lawyer MK ;)

Posted by: Oliver at September 6, 2008 1:19 PM


"Sarah Palin did not belittle community organizers."
I saw the speech. But it doesn't matter what her intentions were with the line, is what I meant (by the word, 'regardless'). As I said before, if I were running for city council and someone running against me used to be a nurse, and I said, "I was a hospital administrator...which is kind of like a nurse, with actual responsibilities" I'd say it might be a bit inappropriate, and the other nurses in the room might be a little offput. Don't you think? And it's not just Sarah Palin it was also Guiliani.
Also everyone sorry this was already been discussed, I must not have seen it. Looks like you guys already went through it so I won't waste your time any longer.

"even if it means she has to outpost and outspew everyone until she gets her way."
You mean how I did so many posts in the evolution thread? Could it possibly be because I was responding to everybody's posts?

"PIP does not support Sarah Palin, s strong woman pro-life candidate. Her posts are evidence of that. It is obvious she supports Barack Obama, a radical pro-abort and represents herself as pro-life because she thinks his policies will result in less abortions."
There are goods and bads in each of those candidates' positions on the issues. I'm not going to lie about that, or elevate each candidate above what they are on the positions.

" PIP acts like a spoiled child."
Are you serious? Did you see those posts last night? Who came off as undignified there? I think I kind of respectfully told my views and was met with personal attacks. I'm sorry you felt I was the one in the sandbox last night...

Also I don't want to be 'a Sarah Palin.' I like being who I am. Thanks for your efforts though. I also could care less how 'pro-life' everyone here thinks I am, to be honest with you.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 6, 2008 1:27 PM


Thanks for sticking up for me everyone :)

I really appreciate your support. That line just particularly struck a chord with me because most of my work involves 'community organization' and I think you all understand that..

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 6, 2008 1:35 PM


MK,

Point taken. I like to think of Jesus as a community organizer in the sense that he worked for people outside of government. That in itself has a lot of responsibilities. He was a 'King' but did not act like a government official on earth. He acted like a leader in his community. (Besides the obvious).
But as I said if we have already discussed this then I'll try to find those posts and won't post any more on the subject here.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 6, 2008 1:54 PM



One could argue the Salvation Army has a long history of community organizing. It brings people together for a cause, betters the lives of people, offers emergency services, offers community dinners during holidays, has daily lunches for those in need, is staffed by dedicated people, offers volunteer opportunities, and must manage its budget and answer to its donors as well.

As you might guess I am an ardent admirer of the Salvation Army and a regular donor.

Posted by: Mary at September 6, 2008 2:15 PM


Mary,
Did you know the nickname for the Salvation Army was "Sally" ?

Posted by: Janet at September 6, 2008 2:16 PM


Mary,

I love the Salvation Army! I try to support them when I can and do second-hand shopping there. That is where I got my coffee table actually.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 6, 2008 2:19 PM


mk and HisMan,

I've never thought of Pontious Pilate relative to the present - very interesting! The things you learn here at Jill's...... :^)

Posted by: Janet at September 6, 2008 2:24 PM


PIP:

Whatever......have it your way.

Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 2:26 PM


SOLD ON E-BAY FOR PROFIT

Well folks she didn't say she sold it for a profit on E-Bay, but it could be argued she implied it. EXXON-John however, seems to have swallowed the 'implication' hook line and internets.

Olie, maybe you wanta get MK all lawyer like and carve up Mc'Can

Posted by: Snerd Gronk at September 6, 2008 2:45 PM


Snerd: "but it could be argued she implied it."

No Snerd, it cannot be argued what someone implied. When she said she put it on Ebay, she meant she put it on Ebay. She was showing how ridiculous she thought the plane to be. Whether or not she sold it for profit is also of little concern. I imagine jets depreciate similarly to cars. Besides, even if they dont, the idea of selling the jet was to generate funds out of something that she found wasteful.

Posted by: Oliver at September 6, 2008 3:02 PM


Here's a new pro-life slogan:

Unborn children should have the right to keep and bear arms - and legs and ears and eyes etc.!

(Obama and Biden did NOT approve of this message.)

Posted by: Hugh at September 6, 2008 3:14 PM


Its a little morbid...but I like your style!

Posted by: Oliver at September 6, 2008 3:18 PM


"u might be (R)ight, however, the explanation of electoral college vote count is more telling."

(D)i(D) you happen to notice that your Anointe(D) One lea(D)s by about .4% in Colora(D)o, and that it's (D)ea(D) even in Virginia? If McCain/Palin's bounce translates there, they'll be up in electoral votes. Sorry to (D)ampen your enthusiasm.

Posted by: bmmg39 at September 6, 2008 3:54 PM



Olie: 'It can not be argued what she implied'

SG: It must be 'Literalist Day' somewhere today.

As a Fundamentalist Linguist, you'll appreciate my literalist response, or at least it's implication, regarding Fundamental Literalism. To Wit: Since I did argue an interpretation, then one can argue an interpretetion.

Fundamentalism aside for the moment, I am 'interpretatively' puzzled that I can not argue the 'what' of an interpretation, and your proof of that is to provide your interpretation of 'what' Sarah meant. Just i(R)ony, I guess.

Finally, Mc'Cane' has argued my interpretation .... literally .... saying 'sold on E Bay', 'for a profit'.

Since you prefer to challenge a blogger and ignore a presidential nominee, each saying the same things, and since he's shadowing '(R)eady for Command Sarah', with a 'press Cone of Silence', I am wondering if she'll correct him with 'your interpretation'?

Snerd

Posted by: Snerd Gronk at September 6, 2008 4:34 PM


Look bmmmg, this was Mc'Cane's big move, his big Hail Mary. If even is the best he can do, That's not that good. Sarahs luster will tarnish, I fear, and there is still the t(R)oopergate bullet they are trying to obstruct.

Snerd
p.s. Imitation is the most sincere form of flatte(R)y.

Posted by: Snerd Gronk at September 6, 2008 4:49 PM


Here's a great video about community organizer P. Diddy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnRN8oViAxA

P. "Vote (Democrat) or Die" Diddy is a community organizer. Ted Kennedy is a politician. They're obviously just like Jesus and Pilate.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 6, 2008 5:15 PM


John,

Obama's has some really classy supporters:

Obama's favotite rapper Ludacris, jokes about McCain being paralized.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrmK2nOT4mE&feature=related

..and then there's Obama supporter Madonna who compared McCain to Hilter.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=34598

...and then there's Obama suppporter Michael Moore who was happy that Hurricane Gustav was bearing down on New Orleans.

http://theautopsy.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/michael-moore-god-sent-gustav-to-the-gulf-coast-to-make-me-happy/


Posted by: Jasper at September 6, 2008 6:28 PM


Snerd,

You're right. I give. McCain is not qualified to be president because he said she "SOLD" it on Ebay, and Palin isn't qualified because she "IMPLIED" that she sold it on Ebay...

You did not infer it. It's all their fault. I'm going to vote for Obama. Because we all know that he always says what he means and means what he says.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Dufus.

Posted by: mk at September 6, 2008 6:33 PM


lol

Posted by: Bethany at September 6, 2008 6:44 PM


MK:

It's not Dufus, it's Snerdly and not Bo Snerdly of EIB Network fame.

I think Snodgrass Grunt Wack is a Rush Limbaugh plant just trying to keep us on our toes. No serious person could be this stupid.

Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 6:44 PM


PIP,

We love you. You're very smart and have a big heart. You're a fellow pro-lifer and we're little dissapointed you're supporting Obama. We care about what you think. Please understand.

Posted by: Jasper at September 6, 2008 6:44 PM


Now Jasper,

They didn't mean that McCain was just like Hitler. You're inferring that.

They didn't mean that McCain should be paralyzed.
You're inferring that.

They didn't mean that it was good that Gustav was gonna hit New Orleans.
You're inferring that.

Please. Haven't you heard. The Obama team doesn't say stuff like that. Only we do. We are the ones that tell terrible awful lies like we sold our plane on Ebay.

We are the ones that are tramps and get pregnant and actually take responsibility for our actions and give birth to our little punishments.

We are the evil ones that think teaching kids to wait until they are married to have sex is a good thing.

You're confused Jasper.

But don't worry. Mr. Gronk is here to clear things up for you.

Now put on a condom, buy a big plane and call Monica Lewinsky...see if she wants to go for a ride with you. Oh, and the government will be happy to pay for any punishments that result. As well as the plane.

Posted by: mk at September 6, 2008 7:13 PM


MK:

Yes, and Obama didn't mean to say that he was against babies by voting against a law that would have protected them.....three times, Jill is just inferring that......three times!

And he will be defeated one time.

Posted by: HisMan at September 6, 2008 7:25 PM


Hisman,

I realize I've been posting out of character lately, but this is so ridiculous. This isn't woman that are misguided, or in pain, or young or...this is insanity.

I've listened to all the "left" bashing that has gone on on this site and have stayed out of it because I just didn't want to believe it. But what I have seen in my own town, on this blog and even with my friends is astonishing. I am by no means saying that all liberals or democrats are this way. That is too much of a generalization, even considering what I have seen.

But there is a faction that is so bitter, so irrational, so hate filled, so angry...that I am having a hard time grasping it.

The things they are saying about John McCain, Sarah Palin and even George Bush are so over the top that I'm apoplectic. I'll try to get myself under control...but it ain't gonna be easy.

Posted by: mk at September 6, 2008 7:44 PM


But there is a faction that is so bitter, so irrational, so hate filled, so angry...that I am having a hard time grasping it.

I know I'd be bent out of shape (loony) if I'd been supporting abortion for 35 years. Logic flew the coop long ago.

Posted by: Janet at September 6, 2008 8:22 PM


mk,

What's going on in your town? Are the Hillar-rioters in a tizzy? Please, do tell!

Posted by: Janet at September 6, 2008 8:24 PM


An apoplectic mk?! That's a frightening thought.

Just don't turn into a volcano like me. If you start to get too mad, turn the TV off, turn the computer off, and go outside and look at the sky, or something, ANYTHING to get your mind off of it for a minute, or an hour. Or a day. I don't think it's healthy to get as angry as I get when reading this stuff.

Or try watching that P. Diddy video I linked above. I laugh out loud every time I watch it. Especially when Glenn Beck says "...crime?".

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 6, 2008 8:43 PM


"I don't think it's healthy to get as angry as I get when reading this stuff."

John, you should've saw me when I first started posting here, boy did I get angry. Luckily MK and Bethany taught me to take breath and debate more calmly... :)

Posted by: Jasper at September 6, 2008 9:02 PM


PIP
With regard to the community organizer thing, one thing I think you should understand is that in Chicago, community organizers don't work for the good of the people, they work for their own good. Community organizers in Chicago are deeply entrenched in and eternally beholden to the Daly and Stroger political machines. Their function, go into poor neighborhoods, rile people up, point fingers at the "oppressors", collect votes, money, favors, etc. and move on, without ever bringing about any lasting change. They are like tornadoes and they leave big ugly messes and very discontented masses in their wake. This is exactly what Barack Obama did in Chicago.

Also, in case you aren't aware, one of Obama's "community organizer" BFFs is home grown, non repentant terrorist William Ayers, Mr. "The only thing I regret is not setting MORE bombs". And then there is Ayers' lovely bride, cop killer Bernadine Dohrn. If you're not familiar, after Charles Manson went on his killing spree, the always delightful Ms. Dohrn reflected:
Dig it! First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner
in the same room with them. They even shoved a fork
into the victim's stomach! Wild!

Obama likes to pretend that he is nothing more than a casual acquaintance of Ayers, but he is lying. They worked closely together in Chicago and Ayers even hosted the launching gala for O's political career from his home. They are at a minimum friends, and in all likelihood good friends. We'll know more about that when/if U of I releases the documents they've been trying to shield.

Obama has also helped his fellow man by building a personal relationship with and funneling lots of money to humanitarian Tony Rezko. The short story is Rezko is a slum lord. O knew his bud was a slum lord, he didn't care that he was a slum lord and he faithfully helped fund him so he could continue to be a slum lord. Does that really sound like someone who is trying to help his fellow man get ahead? It sounds like you've got a vision of what a community organizer should look like. I suggest you scratch that. In Chicago, it's a whole different animal.

Palin, Guilliani and anyone who has followed politics for more than an hour understand what it means to be a "community organizer" in Chicago, and in that context, what they both said was pretty darn funny. It was not meant to diminish the men and women who are in the trenches, it was simply to point out how ridiculous it is for BO to claim that his community organizer days make him in any way fit to hold the highest executive office in the land. Obama's best bet is to come back to Chicago and hit up Daly or Stroger for a high paying, do nothing position. Both love throwing taxpayer money at inexperience and have zero problem with hirees who don't bother showing up for the job.


Posted by: DeeL at September 6, 2008 9:34 PM


I was in the grocery store today and the cover story on one the Hollywood rags, I think it was Us, read:

SARAH PALIN
Babies,
Lies
and Scandals

No bias though.

Posted by: DeeL at September 6, 2008 9:42 PM


DeeL 9:34PM

Fantastic post. Yes Chicago, where the dead vote, not once but several times. Once ruled by mobster Sam Giancana who was consulted to help John Kennedy win the presidency. Where Giancana arranged an abortion for one of Kennedy's ladies, Judith Campbell. That must have been one of history's most nervous, and careful, abortionists.

Posted by: Mary at September 6, 2008 9:52 PM


Thanks Mary.

By the way, I love Chicago. I'm just glad I don't live there. Sorry MK!

"My kind of town, Chicago is, my kind of town Chicago is..."

Posted by: DeeL at September 6, 2008 10:03 PM


DeeL

Ah yes, the the charming Mr. and Mrs.Ayers. I well remember their reign of terror.
Now, just imagine the reaction if they were, instead of pentagon and police station bombers, abortion clinic bombers! Then just imagine if they had hosted the launching gala for the political careers of McCain and Palin from their home. Then just imagine the reaction to that.

Posted by: Mary at September 6, 2008 10:06 PM


DeeL

I'm fascinated by Chicago history, especially when Al Capone ruled. I was a fan of the very old TV series "The Untouchables". I understand the mob was after Desi Arnez for producing that series. They were displeased with Elliot Ness being portrayed as a hero when it was the IRS that nailed Capone.

Posted by: Mary at September 6, 2008 10:10 PM


Mary,

Gasp. That would be the equivalent of bombing churches and orphanages. No wait. Not churches, Dems hate churches. Oh, and not orphanages, Dems hate children. No wait, they just hate living, starving children. Abortion clinics are better than churches and orphanages because they save children from starving. God save Planned Parenthood!

Posted by: DeeL at September 6, 2008 10:17 PM


Correction
Abortion clinics are better than churches and orphanages because they save children from living and starving. God save Planned Parenthood.

Posted by: DeeL at September 6, 2008 10:19 PM


Mary,
So you like the seedy history? I know some, not a ton. Bu it's always interesting.

Fun little piece of family trivia.
One of my great aunts was in the Biograph when they got Dillinger.

Did you read Devil in the White CIty?

Posted by: DeeL at September 6, 2008 10:24 PM


I admit I don't know a lot bout Chicago-specific community organizers, but I just think it came off in bad taste and a lot of people think so as well (not all of them dems, either).

On something completely different, I just read a Nazi document comparing Jews to parasites. Kind of reminds me of that whole argument about 'removing unwanted parasites, even if it means killing them' kind of thing. Scurry.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 6, 2008 10:28 PM


DeeL

How interesting about your great aunt. My grandmother worked at a Detroit hospital when they brought in a radio commentator shot up by the Purple Gang. He didn't have sense enough to keep quiet about the Purple Gang despite numerous threats. She always described his head as looking like a "sock full of broken glass".

I think I developed this fascination by listening to the Depression era stories by my parents and grandparents. My father was an avid fan of "The Twentieth Century" and I always watched it with him. My brother never missed "The Untouchables". Something about the turn of the century on up has always fascinated me, especially the 20s and 30s.

Posted by: Mary at September 6, 2008 10:44 PM


Janet 2:16PM,

News to me. Thanks for the info.

Posted by: Mary at September 6, 2008 10:48 PM


You're right about that PIP, its scary stuff when we start labeling humans, born and pre born as the moral equivalents of head lice and then come up with more and more creative means of eliminating them.

I visited Poland a few years back and spent a day at Aucshwitz. I think it may have been the saddest, most heart wrenching day of my entire life. I remember this room where they had cases and cases of personal items taken from the inmates, but the worst was this massive floor to ceiling case that ran the length of the fairly large room and it was filled with human hair. I just cried and cried. I knew it represented just a fraction of the people who had been killed there. And in the next room they had, mattresses and pillows, and winter military uniforms that the Germans had made out of human hair taken from their victims. There were soaps made from their cremated remains. They were hatefully killing off their unwanteds and manufacturing supplies. I had heard this, but seeing it made me nauseous.

But the tragedy is, this is exactly what we're doing with abortion and frozen embryos in this country. We, the enlightened, civilized, beacon to the world, we're taking the lives of millions and millions of unwanted human beings and turning them into commodities. I will never cease to be amazed at the human heart's capacity to inflict terror and pain on another human being. How wonderful for us that God is merciful.

Posted by: DeeL at September 6, 2008 10:54 PM


Mary,.
They are fascinating stories. I wonder if 80 years from now they'll be nostalgically telling the tales of Ayers, Obama, Rezko and Giannoulis. Hey, by the way, did you see Giannoulis is running for governor? Mob banker in the State House. Who'd a thunk it? But then, not a whole lot different than Blago, so, eh.

Posted by: DeeL at September 6, 2008 11:05 PM


Yes PIP:

The same spirit that causes people to call Jews "parasites" is the same spirit tha causes people to call unborn babies in the womb "non-viable, insentient globs of tissues and cells."

Posted by: HisMan at September 7, 2008 1:29 AM


HisMan,

or parasites!

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 7, 2008 2:51 AM


Here's the exact words. Not only is it creepy on its own but thinking about abortion even creepier:

"There are among our people today those who are uncertain within themselves, when we speak of eliminating the Jews from our world. It requires great strength of character [to accomplish this]. The Jew wants to force us into a life of slavery, so that he can live in us as a parasite who sucks out our life's blood..Who can believe that one makes compromises with parasites?...We are not committing a crime against life, but are serving life's battle law which always takes up arms against all enemies of a healthy life."

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 7, 2008 2:56 AM


Pro-choicers: I'm not saying all of you think like this, or anything of that nature. I think though that in a sense this attitude towards the unborn is being portrayed either verbally or non.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 7, 2008 3:32 AM


PIP,

That is sooooo creepy. Just replace the word unborn and you've pretty much nailed the abortion industries creedo...

"There are among our people today those who are uncertain within themselves, when we speak of eliminating the unborn from our world. It requires great strength of character [to accomplish this]. The pro lifer wants to force us into a life of slavery, so that the unborn can live in us as a parasite who sucks out our life's blood..Who can believe that one makes compromises with parasites?...We are not committing a crime against life, but are serving life's battle law which always takes up arms against all enemies of a healthy life and bodily autonomy."

Posted by: mk at September 7, 2008 6:24 AM


PIP, those words give me chills. It is so sad that these types of thoughts are directed towards any human beings, ever.

Posted by: Bethany at September 7, 2008 8:49 AM


It especially is creepy because so many people say we want to enslave women by forcing them to be pregnant. Like the Jews wanted to enslave Germans. Mm hmmmm. Gives me the heebie jeebies.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at September 7, 2008 10:39 AM


"Sarahs luster will tarnish, I fear, and there is still the t(R)oopergate bullet they are trying to obstruct."

Troopergate? The case of the police officer who tasered his own stepson and threatened people's lives? That one?

"Imitation is the most sincere form of flatte(R)y."

Flattery? In your (D)reams.

Posted by: bmmg39 at September 7, 2008 11:03 AM


Glad you are here with me, guys. I just had to sit there and stare at the paper for a bit to digest it. I couldn't even believe what I was reading. Since then, I have found similarly more Nazi propaganda that some people apply to the unborn. It's just so terribly sad. As the political cartoon I posted in another thread pointed out, we have a long history of inaction towards genocide...

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 7, 2008 3:39 PM


Posted by: Jasper at September 5, 2008 11:53 PM

Jasper, can you believe his charitable contributions? That in itself should give people a clue as to how willing he is to help the underprivileged!

DeeL - wasn't "The Devil in the White City" a GREAT book! While I was reading it I kept saying "So THAT's why the call it that."

Posted by: Kristen at September 8, 2008 8:10 AM


Kristen,
Yes. I really enjoyed reading it. I loved how Larson told the two stories side by side and how they read like a good novel instead of straight history.

Did you read "Thunderstruck"? I thought it was also a great read.

Posted by: DeeL at September 8, 2008 8:25 AM


Deel,

I haven't read Thunderstruck. Is that another Chicago read?

I liked how "Devil in the White City" was written side by side too. I read mostly non-fiction but it's not too often that I can recommend a book to friends that I think they'll enjoy.

I just finished reading "Manhunt: The Twelve Day Search for Lincoln's Killer" which was a great read - but I'm partial to history, especially the Civil War.

I'll check out "Thunderstruck." Thanks for the tip!

Posted by: Kristen at September 8, 2008 5:55 PM


Kristen
"Thunderstruck" is another Erik Larson book following the same format as "Devil". In this book he chronicles Marconi's work in developing the telegraph alongside the story of H.H. Crippen, a seemingly mousy doctor who murdered his wife in London.

Check it out and enjoy.

Posted by: DeeL at September 8, 2008 6:19 PM