CBR buzzes Notre Dame

I reported 2 days ago the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform was launching its Truth Tour about Barack Obama at, around, and over the Notre Dame campus. (And unlike Obama, CBR gave notice of its plans.)

Well I just received some stupendous first photos from CBR (click to enlarge)....

cbr nd buzz 3.JPG

See more on page 2...

cbr nd buzz 2.JPG

cbr nd buzz 1b.JPG


Comments:

I bet ND students really enjoy these images of blood and viscera being paraded around on their otherwise clean and beautiful campus to promote a political cause. I'm sure it's really making them more receptive to the pro-life message.

Posted by: Ahab at April 29, 2009 5:20 PM


That's hilarious! I love it when anti-choicers turn on their own.

Posted by: reality at April 29, 2009 5:21 PM


Jill--thank you for posting this. It is powerful and necessary that the truth is be fully exposed at Notre Dame. May it anger and convict hearts against abortion. I am thankful for the brave souls who are willing to show the victims of abortion to a de-sensitized nation! Go CBR!

www.AbortionNo.org ---A must-see for every American.

Posted by: Lila Rose at April 29, 2009 5:24 PM


That's hilarious! I love it when anti-choicers turn on their own.
Posted by: reality at April 29, 2009 5:21 PM

Is your heart so hardened that you can look at a picture of a murdered baby and not care?
What exactly is "hilarious"? I find most of your posts very offensive but this really crossed the line. If you want to be pro abortion that's up to you, but please have at least a bit of respect for Jill and for the others here who believe in protecting the most innocent among us.

Posted by: Joanne at April 29, 2009 5:32 PM


Ahab, Obama has brought the stench of abortion to Notre Dame. All we're doing is shining a light on it.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2009 5:45 PM


Joanne: I am convinced "reality" is not a serious person, that this is all a game. Try not to get upset with people like this, and there are many, who simply like to get a rise out of us pro-lifers.

For our part all we need to do is keep taking our message to the general public. Yes, there are many who find the truth troubling, but that is always the case when people press for social awareness and change. Eventually, the personhood status of the unborn will be recognized in law, and we will grieve as a society for the millions of innocent victims of abortion.

Posted by: Jerry at April 29, 2009 5:46 PM


I bet ND students really enjoy these images of blood and viscera being paraded around on their otherwise clean and beautiful campus to promote a political cause. I'm sure it's really making them more receptive to the pro-life message.

Hmm...So, Ahab, you would likewise support the removal of pictures in otherwise clean and beautiful history textbooks that show dead Black men hanging from trees, and the bodies of Jews who were killed in concentration camps, I presume?

Posted by: DA at April 29, 2009 6:17 PM


Hmm...So, Ahab, you would likewise support the removal of pictures in otherwise clean and beautiful history textbooks that show dead Black men hanging from trees, and the bodies of Jews who were killed in concentration camps, I presume?
Posted by: DA at April 29, 2009 6:17 PM

touche DA!

Posted by: angel at April 29, 2009 6:28 PM


Although the photos break my heart Every.Time. they need to be seen!!

Posted by: Carla at April 29, 2009 6:44 PM


Let's be honest here. The Nazis can't hold a candle to us in the human extermination department. Those amateurs only killed 5M in concentration camps to our 50M in abortion clinics - and the numbers ain't getting any closer!

Posted by: RC at April 29, 2009 6:46 PM


Sadly, even ND students, and obviously staff, should be educated about the horrors of abortion. It is time we all got a little messy cleaning up this massacre that Roe V Wade started. Everyone needs to see a snapshot of those innocent lost to abortion, even "pro choicers." (I used to be a "pro choicer", the pictures and conviction of my heart changed me!) We have lost 50 million lives to abortion. Let it end in this generation.

Posted by: Lynda at April 29, 2009 6:50 PM


Obama isn't my messiah, but it seems for the anti-choice movement, poor taste trumps any previous notion of decent and refined conduct.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 29, 2009 6:51 PM


Choices do have consequences.

Some choices have unintended and/or unanticipated consequences.

College students are adults. They should be able to handle the controversey. It will even help to prepare them for the real world.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at April 29, 2009 6:53 PM


Thank you for showing the truth that abortion is murder.

Those who support "choice" will have no excuse on judgment day - they have seen the truth that abortion is the brutal murder of a child.

Posted by: Kevin at April 29, 2009 6:56 PM


Yo La-

You've got us all wrong. We actually support "choice" as long as it is tied to prison sentences.

Posted by: RC at April 29, 2009 6:56 PM


Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 29, 2009 6:51 PM

Obama isn't my messiah, but it seems for the anti-choice movement, poor taste trumps any previous notion of decent and refined conduct.

-----------------------------------------------------

ylt,

If these photos that are being exhibited were of extracted wisdom teeth or warts or moles that had been removed, or a tumor, would that be in equally poor taste?

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at April 29, 2009 6:58 PM


No, they just consider it poor taste to pull out the rug on the asinine foundation of their argument of how a fetus isn't really a human.

See, you're just supposed to turn your head the other way, close your eyes and say: "It's not a real person! It's not a real person!"

Posted by: RC at April 29, 2009 7:05 PM


Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 29, 2009 6:51 PM

Obama isn't my messiah, but it seems for the anti-choice movement, poor taste trumps any previous notion of decent and refined conduct.

--------------------------------------------------

When escaped slave Frederick Douglas was challenged by doubting pro-slavery folk as to his authenticity as a former slave, Douglas would remove his shirt and turn around show them the scars on his back from the multiple whippings he had endured.

History records that even that would not disabuse them of their self willed ignorance and bigotry. These were not just your sterotypical redneck, hayseed, white trash brutes. Some were educated and refined men and women of high society.

I am sure though they were unmoved by the furrows of scars on Douglas' back, they were offended by his 'indecent and unrefined' conduct.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at April 29, 2009 7:08 PM


Why is it the "pro-choice" groups never acknowledge the photos of these dead babies? Only attack the pro-LIFE supporters.

But always, always, ignore the truth in and of the photos...

Posted by: Jessica at April 29, 2009 8:10 PM


97% of the graduating seniors support Obama as the commencement speaker. Too bad the outside agitators and right wing extremists can't let them enjoy their graduation without trying to bully and intimidate them. Just like the Taliban

Posted by: Bystander at April 29, 2009 8:17 PM


Stop with the "taliban" nonsense. Repeating the lie over and over doesn't make it true.

I don't care if 100% of the students wanted Obama to come. It's not about the students. It's about the fact that a Catholic university is going directly against Catholic teaching in recognizing and honoring someone who supports the slaughter of millions.

Imagine a Catholic university were honoring someone who supported the holocaust. Even if the students were fine with this person speaking, the Catholic community would have the right, no the responsibility, to speak out against such a horror.

Someone who actively fights to keep born children from having legal protection does not deserve to be honored by a Catholic institution. In fact, no one who supports the "right" to kill a child in the womb deserves this opportunity. Period. End of story.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2009 8:25 PM


I don't care if 100% of the students wanted Obama to come. It's not about the students. It's about the fact that a Catholic university is going directly against Catholic teaching in recognizing and honoring someone who supports the slaughter of millions.

Imagine a Catholic university were honoring someone who supported the holocaust. Even if the students were fine with this person speaking, the Catholic community would have the right, no the responsibility, to speak out against such a horror.

Someone who actively fights to keep born children from having legal protection does not deserve to be honored by a Catholic institution. In fact, no one who supports the "right" to kill a child in the womb deserves this opportunity. Period. End of story.
Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2009 8:25 PM


BRAVO -- LAUREN!!!

Posted by: Eileen #2 at April 29, 2009 8:30 PM


So...you guys question the deeper things in life like, "Do this images have an effect on public opinion?" I really can't answer that because it appears that some people don't mind the cruelty that children have endured. Hopefully, those children won't have to endure pain much longer.

And in the meantime, I shall inject my stupidity of the day (please don't make fun of me; I don't know anything about Catholicism) into this conversation with the hopes of clearing up something that has been bothering me (then I can be a productive member of this thread, too!):

Where the flip is Notre Dame?

I used to think that it was in France...but apparently it isn't... Sorry, guys. :(.

Posted by: Vannah at April 29, 2009 8:35 PM


Bystander,

Please, dispense with the "Taliban" claptrap. You only make yourself look foolish.

Lauren has a point. Let's say a an avowed racist/white supremist was commencement speaker at ND. Would the fact the majority of students wanted this speaker make him/her more acceptable? Would you think nonwhite students and their parents should just keep quiet about their objections? Should minority communities and leaders also keep quiet?
Would you agree that ND should not sponsor an individual such as this that goes against the teachings of Christianity?

Posted by: Mary at April 29, 2009 8:38 PM


Jill.... thanks for supporting CBR's efforts. My dad served under Patton in WWII and helped liberate the remaining Jews at Buchenwald.

Eisenhower, after personally witnessing the graphic horror of of the holocaust, wisely ordered all military photographers and reporters to film and report everything and march the good German citizenry right up to the stench and pits and the ovens to 'see and smell' for themselves lest they say it was all a lie.

Because America refuses to 'see' abortion for what it really is, America continues to accept abortion.

Posted by: Rick at April 29, 2009 8:40 PM


Why is it the "pro-choice" groups never acknowledge the photos of these dead babies? Only attack the pro-LIFE supporters.

But always, always, ignore the truth in and of the photos...
Posted by: Jessica at April 29, 2009 8:10 PM

Exactly Jessica! We are the "taliban" or "right wing extremists" for wanting to save defenseless babies.

Vannah..... Notre Dame is in Indiana.

Posted by: Joanne at April 29, 2009 9:04 PM


"anti-choicers"
What an intellectuality backwards term.

http://notantichoice.com

Posted by: David at April 29, 2009 9:19 PM


David, their new favorite term is "abortion foes."

It sounds like we should be wearing capes or something.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2009 9:22 PM


I want to say something about the very first comment on this thread. The blood and viscera comment by Ahab. Sorry. Not seeing what you are seeing in the 24 week abortion pic. There is blood, but then there is also dark hair, fingers, hands, arms, toes, feet, legs...the entire body of a precious child.

Maybe that is your definition of viscera?? Might want to click on the picture and have another look-see, Ahab.

Posted by: Carla at April 29, 2009 9:34 PM


Lauren and Mary, if you don't like being compared with the Taliban, perhaps you should stop trying to force your extremist religious beliefs on everyone. That is what the Taliban does....

Posted by: Bystander at April 29, 2009 9:51 PM


In answer to the question about the whereabouts of the University of Notre Dame, this is something that a lot of Catholics have been asking ourselves now for about the last 40 years. The Notre Dame of the past is nowhere to be found. Except for a few remnants of orthodoxy, this once proud bastion of loyalty to Catholic teaching has become a ship adrift in a sea of political correctness.

The invitation of President Abortion to speak at the commencement ceremony is in direct opposition to the guidelines set down by our nation's bishops for Catholic institutions. But what else would we expect from an institution that has allowed the performance of the V Monologues on campus year after year.

It is time for Notre Dame to either make a clean break with the Church, or (hopefully) rediscover their roots as defenders of the faith.

Posted by: Jerry at April 29, 2009 9:56 PM


I would love, just once, for an abortion supporter to stand up and defend abortion on its own terms. Let's hear them explain the unavoidable science of embryology and how fetuses aren't actually human. Let's hear them explain how a reasonable person reads the Constitution and arrives at the conclusion that Roe or Doe have any kind of Constitutional merit. Enough of the "anti-choice" rhetorical nonsense or the ridiculous moral equivalences game with Iraq or capital punishment.

Of course, this is not a debate you will hear in a large public forum. To debate in favor of abortion is to debate from a position of weakness. It has no moral or Constitutional foundation, and it is a practice that is sustained solely by ignorance, hate, selfishness and greed. Most people don't like to have their worst character traits exposed.

Posted by: RC at April 29, 2009 10:04 PM


Bystander,
I have NEVER seen Mary type a comment mentioning her religion. You would be hard pressed to find one.

Posted by: Carla at April 29, 2009 10:12 PM


Bystander. Fighting against the slaughter of millions upon millions of children has absolutely nothing to do with forcing my "extremist religious beliefs" on anyone.

It's incredibly sad that the only way you can justify killing children is to frame the opposition as terrorists. Your side kills more children every day than the Talliban has killed in a year.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2009 10:12 PM


Bystander,

There is no basis for your absurd comparisons but if it makes you feel better about yourself then go for it.

Somebody's worldview will always prevail. There is no neutrality, no detente.

You are proclaiming your 'gospel' which by the way came from a greek word that was a political term before chritianity religionized it.

The policitical 'gospel' was all the things, good and bad, that ruler was going to do when he arrived on the scene.

pbho has proclaimed his gospel, but he has deliberately deceived his hearers and whatever he has said they have heard what they wanted to hear and in so doing have deceived themselves.

I for one give your baseless ramblings all the consideration they deserve. They are good for a laugh now and then and laughter is always good.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at April 29, 2009 10:35 PM


PRAY PRAY PRAY!

I just found out that texas si poised to pass a bill that will make infanticide only a state jail felony. This means that the maximum jail-term will be 2 YEARS.

Here's the text of the bill: http://www.statesurge.com/bills/514828-hb-3318-texas

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2009 10:41 PM


YLT,

"Obama isn't my messiah, but it seems for the anti-choice movement, poor taste trumps any previous notion of decent and refined conduct."

LISTEN TO YOURSELF. YOU ARE CRITICIZING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DISPLAYING THESE HORRIFIC IMAGES WHILE YOU DEFEND THE MURDERERS WHO KILLED THESE CHILDREN.

POOR TASTE? REFINED CONDUCT? IT'S CALLED MURDER. IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN MURDER. IT ALWAYS WILL BE MURDER. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT 7 IDIOTIC BLIND JUDGES SAY. IT'S MURDER OF AN UNBORN HUMAN BEING. The same court in 1857 said blacks were not human but property!

As Kathy Ireland so eloquently stated, a human embryo is a complete human being with the DNA blueprint which will determine the precise features of the human being when it is fully grown. It looks exactly how a human being should look in that stage of development.

It is a human life, and killing that life is murder.

(SORRY FOR SHOUTING)

Posted by: Ed at April 29, 2009 10:44 PM


if you don't like being compared with the Taliban, perhaps you should stop trying to force your extremist religious beliefs on everyone. That is what the Taliban does....

I'm sorry Bystander but you sound like an ignorant fool. If you want to see what the Taliban does, go to www.abortionNO.org and see for yourself how the abortionist "beheads" a small child.

WAKE UP!!! You can't be that stupid.

Posted by: Ed at April 29, 2009 10:51 PM


If these photos that are being exhibited were of extracted wisdom teeth or warts or moles that had been removed, or a tumor, would that be in equally poor taste?

yor bro ken
Posted by: kbhvac at April 29, 2009 6:58 PM

Only if they were obviously fake like the fetus pictures.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 29, 2009 10:54 PM


I absolutely love CBR. My convictions on abortion were seared into my conscience watching the dismemberment of a little baby in the movie "Silent Scream' in a Catholic Church.

I wish someone would bankroll an hour long prime time special on one of the major networks to feature these images.

Maybe yet in my lifetime...

Posted by: Ed at April 29, 2009 10:55 PM


Posted by: Ed at April 29, 2009 10:51 PM


Lol. You're funny. So much hot air wasted.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 29, 2009 10:57 PM


LISTEN TO YOURSELF. YOU ARE CRITICIZING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DISPLAYING THESE HORRIFIC IMAGES WHILE YOU DEFEND THE MURDERERS WHO KILLED THESE CHILDREN.

POOR TASTE? REFINED CONDUCT? IT'S CALLED MURDER. IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN MURDER. IT ALWAYS WILL BE MURDER. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT 7 IDIOTIC BLIND JUDGES SAY. IT'S MURDER OF AN UNBORN HUMAN BEING. The same court in 1857 said blacks were not human but property!

As Kathy Ireland so eloquently stated, a human embryo is a complete human being with the DNA blueprint which will determine the precise features of the human being when it is fully grown. It looks exactly how a human being should look in that stage of development.

It is a human life, and killing that life is murder.

(SORRY FOR SHOUTING)
Posted by: Ed at April 29, 2009 10:44 PM

Shout all you want Ed, I'll shout with you. What you said is absolutely right.

Posted by: Joanne at April 29, 2009 11:03 PM


Yo La, why do you think they're fake? Do you know what a developing child looks like at 10 weeks? 24 weeks?

Hey, I just so happen to have picture right here! Don't worry. These babies weren't murdered by their mothers!

http://www.minti.com/members/ellamia/photos/41649/10-Week-Old-Fetus/

http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/2%20babys%20size.bmp

Well, look at that! These little ones look exactly like the ones that were murderd. Except their little arms and legs are still attached to their bodies.

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2009 11:05 PM


Only if they were obviously fake like the fetus pictures.

YLT, I think you enjoy negative attention. You cannot possibly be so ignorant as to believe half the nonsense you post here.

Posted by: Fed Up at April 29, 2009 11:06 PM


YLT,

Fake pictures? Do you have a brain?

Go to: http://www.prolifesociety.com/pages/archives/hodari/HodariDumpsterScandal.aspx

There you will see real images submitted as evidence in a Michigan courtroom of dead fetus parts dug out of a dumpster behind an abortion clinic. They look just like the images on the trucks at Notre Dame.

Do yourself a favor and do some research before you comment on things you know nothing about. It only makes you look foolish.

We've all made mistakes. The important thing is to learn from them.

Posted by: Ed at April 29, 2009 11:06 PM


To all the post-abortive ladies on here, I'm sorry for using such graphic language. I was trying to illustrate how horrific abortion really is, but I know that such reminders can be very painful to you. I love you guys!

Posted by: Lauren at April 29, 2009 11:24 PM


Ditto Lauren,

They can all take heart that their children are in heaven waiting for them and that their sins like ours are washed away by the Blood of the Lamb. God doesn't remember them any more and neither should we. We're new creatures in Christ.

Thank You Jesus for shedding your Blood!

Posted by: Ed at April 29, 2009 11:35 PM


"Of course, this is not a debate you will hear in a large public forum. To debate in favor of abortion is to debate from a position of weakness. It has no moral or Constitutional foundation, and it is a practice that is sustained solely by ignorance, hate, selfishness and greed. Most people don't like to have their worst character traits exposed."

Lots of things we take for granted as "rights" have no explicit constitutional foundation beyond our generic due process rights found in the Fourteenth Amendment. The onus is not on abortion supporters to provide a constitutional basis for abortion because Roe v. Wade already did so and constitutional interpretation and judicial review are authorities retained exclusively by the Supreme Court.

To say that abortion has no "moral foundation" is incorrect. There are different systems of morality and ethics that approach issues on different grounds. I personally approach abortion from a utilitarian viewpoint. It may be unpleasant, to many people even inexorably wrong, but I believe it ultimately provides a social good to society and therefore must be allowed.

Posted by: Ahab at April 30, 2009 12:08 AM


Ahab,

"The onus is not on abortion supporters to provide a constitutional basis for abortion because Roe v. Wade already did so"

In Dred Scott v. Sanford the Supreme Court ruled that blacks were property, not people. Would you say the 7 consenting justices missed that one Ahab? Judges are human, like you and I, and they make mistakes.

"I believe it ultimately provides a social good to society and therefore must be allowed." Here is where you really reveal your ignorance Ahab. When your mother conceived, you were a complete human being with a fixed genetic blueprint that would determine every detail of your future development. You were a member of the human race, and if your mother was in a car and hit by a drunk driver and had a miscarraige, the drunk could be charged with manslaughter. I'm not familiar with the wording in current state law but I know that it was true for years. The law recognized you as a member of the human race and protected you as such. You were a member of our society. Typically, murder is not viewed as a good thing for societies members.

If you really are interested in educating yourself about abortion, please review the short video at www.abortionNO.org. Then if you're a reader, (and judging by your vocabulary you are) I would highly recommend Lime 5 by Mark Crutcher which provides excellent research on what goes on at abortion centers. http://www.lifedynamics.com/Abortion_Information/Pro-life_Product/?id=1

I'd be very interested to hear what you think of the video. (Hint: slide your intellect into neutral and listen to your heart)

Posted by: Ed at April 30, 2009 1:05 AM


Ahab,

"The onus is not on abortion supporters to provide a constitutional basis for abortion because Roe v. Wade already did so"

In Dred Scott v. Sanford the Supreme Court ruled that blacks were property, not people. Would you say the 7 consenting justices missed that one Ahab? Judges are human, like you and I, and they make mistakes.

"I believe it ultimately provides a social good to society and therefore must be allowed." Here is where you really reveal your ignorance Ahab. When your mother conceived, you were a complete human being with a fixed genetic blueprint that would determine every detail of your future development. You were a member of the human race, and if your mother was in a car and hit by a drunk driver and had a miscarraige, the drunk could be charged with manslaughter. I'm not familiar with the wording in current state law but I know that it was true for years. The law recognized you as a member of the human race and protected you as such. You were a member of our society. Typically, murder is not viewed as a good thing for societies members.

If you really are interested in educating yourself about abortion, please review the short video at www.abortionNO.org. Then if you're a reader, (and judging by your vocabulary you are) I would highly recommend Lime 5 by Mark Crutcher which provides excellent research on what goes on at abortion centers. http://www.lifedynamics.com/Abortion_Information/Pro-life_Product/?id=1

I'd be very interested to hear what you think of the video. (Hint: slide your intellect into neutral and listen to your heart)

Posted by: Ed at April 30, 2009 1:06 AM


(society members or members of our society)

It's after 2 AM my time and I'm tired.

Posted by: Ed at April 30, 2009 1:12 AM


"In Dred Scott v. Sanford the Supreme Court ruled that blacks were property, not people. Would you say the 7 consenting justices missed that one Ahab? Judges are human, like you and I, and they make mistakes."

No, I wouldn't say they "missed that one." They interpreted the law as they saw fit, which is their job. You're right, judges are human and make mistakes, but going by this rationale no decision they ever make could truly be valid because there is always the possibility they're acting in error. This latent hostility pro-lifers exhibit towards judges is really misplaced.

"Here is where you really reveal your ignorance Ahab. When your mother conceived, you were a complete human being with a fixed genetic blueprint that would determine every detail of your future development. You were a member of the human race, and if your mother was in a car and hit by a drunk driver and had a miscarraige, the drunk could be charged with manslaughter. I'm not familiar with the wording in current state law but I know that it was true for years. The law recognized you as a member of the human race and protected you as such. You were a member of our society. Typically, murder is not viewed as a good thing for societies members."

Firstly, manslaughter and murder are not equivalent charges. Secondly, I don't agree with any laws, state or federal, that consider the death of a fetus inside a pregnant woman who is killed to warrant additional charges and if your point here is that allowing for this is inconsistent with legal abortion, then on that much we agree. I appreciate your links but I've made up my mind on this issue.

Posted by: Ahab at April 30, 2009 1:39 AM


Bystander 9:51PM

Some direct quotes please as to where I have tried to force religious beliefs on anyone.
Opposition to abortion is a moral issue, not a religious one. In case you're too young to remember, the civil rights movement, led by minister Dr.Martin Luther King Jr. was a very religiously oriented movement. Did that make civil rights a religious issue? Hardly. Civil rights was a moral issue.


Posted by: Mary at April 30, 2009 5:05 AM


Ahab 1:39am

I believe one of the justices was a slaveholder. Like you said justices were as human as anyone and influenced by their prejudices.
The same with segregation. Where did the Constitution address segregation? For that matter, where did it address the issue of black people and slavery?
It seems justices could find what they wanted if they looked hard enough and twisted a few words a certain way.

Posted by: Mary at April 30, 2009 5:11 AM


Where the flip is Notre Dame?

I used to think that it was in France...but apparently it isn't... Sorry, guys. :(.

Vannah, you're probably thinking of Notre Dame de Paris, which is a famous cathedral in France. I get the impression that Catholic institutions use that phrase a lot, similar to how they use certain names or phrases -- these words have significance so it makes sense. It's kind of like how many Washingtons (cities) we have in the US, or Washington St's, or even Broadway/Main Streets, etc. But yes, while the Notre Dame in question is in Indiana (and is the home of the Fighting Irish!) there is a Notre Dame in France, so you weren't entirely off! The cathedral is so, so, so beautiful. Here are pictures of me at 15, lighting a candle there!

http://tinyurl.com/cap8b5
http://tinyurl.com/cvp7o4

You want to know something funny? I'm wearing that EXACT same red sweatshirt this morning, 11 years later! It's still enormous on me, hehe.

I feel the need to note that I was not always a filthy pigpen with greasy hair, as I appear in those pictures. IIRC there had been some kind of major line for the showers in the hostel that morning, so I just bird-bathed in the sink. Clearly it was a wise decision, one I would NEVER EVER regret...

To defend my honor/appearance, I submit this photo from a few weeks later, in Florence, my favoritest city in all of Italy. As always, look for the shortest one and you'll find me!

http://tinyurl.com/cqyyyu

Posted by: Alexandra at April 30, 2009 7:03 AM


To all the dedicated baby killers who post here and call photos of aborted babies "fake", please answer just one question: Where are the "real" photos of aborted babies?

Posted by: Anonymous at April 30, 2009 7:29 AM


Ahab,

Just so you know, one of my best friends is a pro-death Judge in the Detroit, MI area whom I play tennis with a couple times a week. I hope that over time I'll be able to convince him of his flawed reasoning. My hostility isn't toward judges, but their flawed reasoning, like yours.

You said killing unborn children was good for society which was the exact same reasoning Hitler gave for murdering millions of Jews. The fact that you refuse to consider any additional information makes me question you wisdom.

How can this issue be so polarizing and divisive across the broad spectrum of society? Simple. If you bothered to consider http://mathworld.wolfram.com/YoungGirl-OldWomanIllusion.html you would see an image that I'm sure you're probably familiar with. It illustrates how you can look at the same image and see two totally different images by focusing on one set of facts or another.

You say you have formed your opinion and are not willing to consider all the facts. That is foolish. Like so many others you prefer to look at abortion through rose colored lenses. There is a proverb that says, "The glory of kings is to search out a matter."

Unless you become willing to see another's point of view, you will remain ignorant, biased and hostile toward unborn children.

Like the illusion in the above link, here are several others to stimulate your brain:

http://www.abortionno.org/GAP/signs/GAP/01.html
http://www.abortionno.org/GAP/signs/GAP/03.html
http://www.abortionno.org/GAP/signs/GAP/04.html
http://www.abortionno.org/GAP/signs/GAP/07.html
http://www.abortionno.org/GAP/signs/GAP/12.html
http://www.abortionno.org/GAP/signs/GAP/25.html
http://www.abortionno.org/GAP/signs/GAP/17.html
http://www.abortionno.org/GAP/signs/GAP/24.html

May I respectfully suggest that you educate yourself.

Posted by: Ed at April 30, 2009 7:33 AM


? (in a hurry, off to work)

Posted by: Ed at April 30, 2009 7:34 AM


Heh, thanks, Alexandra. I think that it came from the fact that Notre Dame looks like it was built in 1300 and, yeah, the Disney movie doesn't help. Very pretty pictures. :D

It's terribly saddening to see some of the ignorant comments posted here. And, just as a quick lesson in intolerance for anyone who find pro-life to be like the Taliban (no names mentioned): it's not intolerant on our parts to reject your intolerance of children's rights. It's not intolerant of us to not tolerate your intolerance. Just thought that I ought to point that out.

Posted by: Vannah at April 30, 2009 7:44 AM


Alexandra,
You are such a cutie pie!! :)

Posted by: Carla at April 30, 2009 8:53 AM


"...Mary, if you don't like being compared with the Taliban, perhaps you should stop trying to force your extremist religious beliefs on everyone."

Oh my gosh Bystander, do you even realize that Mary is agnostic? I keep forgetting how much easier it is for you to simply throw up a straw man and say we're forcing religious views than to actually engage in rational discussion and consider our arguments.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at April 30, 2009 9:27 AM


Thanks, Carla! Fortunately I was out of my "patterned leggings" stage by the time these pictures were taken, at least...These were my "grown up" clothes, some of the first my mom bought just for me (as opposed to hand-me-downs, the bane of every shortest-kid's existence) and basically the first adult clothes I could fit into. Actually I think the dress was probably still kids' clothing; I suspect that Mom asked the Miami street vendor who sold it to us to tell me it was for women, not girls!

Sadly I have only grown outward, not upward, in these past 11 years. But I have learned to embrace my cutie-pie quality rather than to wish for model-esque height and beauty. Dimples are beautiful in their own way. ;)

PS: A few weeks ago I meandered over to your blog and saw a picture of your daughter crammed into a house like Alice in Wonderland. It looked soooo comfortable. Like YogaToes for the whole body, or something. Ever since then I've been longing for a plastic dollhouse to twist myself into when I watch TV. She should market that.

Posted by: Alexandra at April 30, 2009 10:03 AM


...hmmm..methinks ND really should have allowed the ad in the school newspaper...

Posted by: RSD at April 30, 2009 10:36 AM


To all the dedicated baby killers who post here and call photos of aborted babies "fake", please answer just one question: Where are the "real" photos of aborted babies?
Posted by: Anonymous at April 30, 2009 7:29 AM

oh I know! pick me! pick me! (waving hand)

There are none! They're not babies just blobs of cells.


And Alexandra you are very pretty! Are you of Italian ancestry?

@Bobby: maybe Mary's an "extreme" agnostic!! :)

Posted by: angel at April 30, 2009 12:02 PM


Alexandra,
She did look rather comfy and cozy didn't she? It would serve you well to search some thrift stores or yard sales(or are they called tag sales where you are??)to find a doll house. I will need a picture of that, pretty please. :)

Posted by: Carla at April 30, 2009 12:40 PM


To defend my honor/appearance, I submit this photo from a few weeks later, in Florence, my favoritest city in all of Italy. As always, look for the shortest one and you'll find me!


Posted by: Alexandra at April 30, 2009 7:03 AM


I have yet to meet someone who's been to Florence and it hasn't been their favorite city. I've never been to Florence but it's on my list!

Posted by: Kristen at April 30, 2009 12:45 PM


Some of the cowardly response from individuals who refuse to accept the reality of abortion are not a surprise to me. I have seen this in my 35 years as an activist on the horror of abortion. How can anyone judge the morality of abortion without first seeing it. Truly a picture such as CBR use are worth 10,000 words. As a 1956 graduate of Our Lady's School, I could not be more proud of the efforts of CBR to finally show todays students the truth of what they are supporting, and what Obama is peddling. God have mercy on your souls. In closing I would like to ask you who support abortion, "Would you have wanted your mother to have chosen that path for you?" I thought so!

Posted by: Walk on Jim at April 30, 2009 1:16 PM


Walk on Jim,
Thank you for your commitment! Fight on!!

I guess we shouldn't be surprised by any of the things that are going on around us or the responses to our love of ALL life.

Posted by: Carla at April 30, 2009 1:24 PM


Carla, we call them yard sales here, even though in my area anyone who even HAS a yard probably just has a little square of grass with a Virgin Mary statue in it. (My neighborhood is predominantly Greek and Italian; with a very sizable Middle Eastern/Muslim subculture.)

angel, thank you! While I am kind of a mixed bag, ethnically speaking, I have no Italian ancestry that I'm aware of. I get that a lot, though. Colombian or Mexican as well -- people always come up to me for help, assuming I speak Spanish. Tragically, I made the unwise decision to study French instead, so I am useless.

Posted by: Alexandra at April 30, 2009 2:18 PM


Alexandra, you don't look like a filthy pigpen! You look just darling!!

Posted by: Eileen #2 at April 30, 2009 2:26 PM


Haha, thanks Eileen. I went to light a candle today and I felt like I wanted someone to take my picture, with clean hair and all. LOL

It's funny, angel, I just realized that as far as I can remember, only one person has accurately guessed anything about my ancestry. Most people don't look at me and immediately think I'm German or Polish, which are the two big ones. But when I was 10, I was on a vacation in Arizona and my hair got so long that my mom couldn't wait until we were home to cut it herself. So we went to a hair salon place, and the hairdresser said, "I know hair -- I've been cutting hair in this area for almost 20 years -- and this is Native American hair." And she was right! I don't even know her name.

Kristen, I thought I would like Venice more, but even though Ive been to Venice more often, Florence blows it out of the water (er, no pun intended!)

Posted by: Anonymous at April 30, 2009 3:12 PM


whoops, that was me!

Posted by: Alexandra at April 30, 2009 3:15 PM


Alexandra,
I must say that you take some of the edge off of being here sometimes!! Your comments always make me smile in the midst of some pretty heavy discussions. When I see your name it makes me happy.
Thanks!!

Posted by: Carla at April 30, 2009 3:35 PM


"Just so you know, one of my best friends is a pro-death Judge in the Detroit, MI area whom I play tennis with a couple times a week. I hope that over time I'll be able to convince him of his flawed reasoning. My hostility isn't toward judges, but their flawed reasoning, like yours."

There's nothing flawed about my reasoning. Morality is an imprecise subject. Two people approaching the same issue, even judging it with the same ethical preconceptions, may arrive at completely opposite conclusions about it. For the system of ethics I'm approaching the issue of abortion from my reasoning is entirely sound. I believe abortion has helped to suppress violent crime rates since it became legal because as pro-lifers are fond of noting, the majority of abortions are obtained by poor, single minority women. These women, by and large, are not producing offspring with brilliant minds whose presence society would benefit from, they're producing drug dealers, gang bangers, murderers. And before you accuse me of supporting "eugenics" or trying to "hold down" these minority populations let me remind you that nobody's neighborhoods suffer more from the criminal elements I described than the very ones these people are living in. Abortion might be the most merciful gift white society ever gave to American blacks.

"You said killing unborn children was good for society which was the exact same reasoning Hitler gave for murdering millions of Jews. The fact that you refuse to consider any additional information makes me question you wisdom."

Firstly, I don't appreciate you confounding my pro-abortion position with an assumed support for "killing unborn children" because frankly I don't consider "unborn children" to be "children" at all. Secondly I don't know where you inferred from my post that I "refuse to consider any additional information." I simply said that I've made up my mind on the issue. I will say that I did view the video on your linked anti-abortion site and I found it visually disgusting in the same way I find imagery of heart surgery or autopsies or natural child birth visually disgusting, while not wanting any of these things to be banned simply because of my distaste for watching them.

How Hitler justified what he did has no bearing on how I personally find abortion to be justified. The fact is that all leaders do what they consider to be best for their societies and it is always a matter of perspective.

"Unless you become willing to see another's point of view, you will remain ignorant, biased and hostile toward unborn children."

I don't think it's at all reasonable for you to accuse me of being unwilling to "see another's point of view." I have entertained every pro-life argument (or tasteless aborted fetus picture, for that matter) there is and they have all came up short in my mind. You'd fault me as unreasonably close-minded simply for having a firm belief in something despite the fact that I have respectfully treated you and every other poster here with your beliefs.

Posted by: Ahab at April 30, 2009 4:17 PM


"I believe one of the justices was a slaveholder. Like you said justices were as human as anyone and influenced by their prejudices.
The same with segregation. Where did the Constitution address segregation? For that matter, where did it address the issue of black people and slavery?
It seems justices could find what they wanted if they looked hard enough and twisted a few words a certain way."

Of course they can find what they want by looking at things from a certain way. That's not a fault in our judicial system or even our Constitution, it's a fault that lies with the nature of language itself. There isn't a constitution or statute that has ever been written which is completely explicit and contains no room for individual interpretation at all. What's more, the meaning of language and of individual words is not static but changes over time. Does every single word in the United States Constitution mean now what it did when it was written hundreds of years ago?

Posted by: Ahab at April 30, 2009 4:24 PM


"Abortion might be the most merciful gift white society ever gave to American blacks."

...wow. Wow. There is the quote of the day. Wow.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at April 30, 2009 4:28 PM


Ahab,

I appreciate your viewing of the abortion video and your comments. I seems that most everyone's reaction is one of disgust, as you'd expect from viewing similarly invasive surgeries like you indicated. What's intriguing however is that some people have an additional reaction and are absolutely horrified by what they consider to be the torture and murder of a little child.

Others on the other hand like yourself and Danielle, another occasional poster to this site, don't get past the gore and blood and never feel any empathy toward the unborn child or fetus, as you'd prefer.

That is a mystery to me. I gave Danielle a hypothetical and asked her what she would do if she overheard a new Mom, frustrated and overwhelmed with the demands of motherhood, ask a friend of hers to help her kill her newborn child. Danielle told me she would absolutely, unequivocally, notify authorities and engage them for the protection of that little child. We have angencies like Children's Protective Services whose work is totally devoted to the welfare of America's children.

Yet, instead of carrying the child in her arms, if she was carrying it on the other side of her cervix, all bets are off, kill it and good riddance.

As you suggested, it all lies in ones estimation of the humanity or personhood of the unborn child.

My friend the judge is in his fifties and just had a son born 10 weeks ago or so. (Better him than me! I paid my dues, two in college and one halfway through high school.) He used to tell me how he talked to his kids before they were born and how studies have shown that children respond positively to their parents communication while in the womb.

If you get a chance, I'd be interested to see what you think about the other links I posted earlier. My intent isn't to shock you with gore. These images put the abortion issue in a historical context and try to correlate it with racial and ethnic injustices of other generations.

Have a nice night Ahab.

Ed

Posted by: Ed at April 30, 2009 11:42 PM


BB,

I know, it's amazing how two different people can look at the same act and one sees the torture and murder of a little child and the other sees a remedy for the social ills caused by teen pregnancies, single mothers and kids that raise themselves.

I get his point, but from where I sit, it's murder, and there has to be a better way. If fact, my friend the judge is speaking at an event tonight promoting adoption for prospective parents.

Posted by: Ed at April 30, 2009 11:56 PM


"Yet, instead of carrying the child in her arms, if she was carrying it on the other side of her cervix, all bets are off, kill it and good riddance.

As you suggested, it all lies in ones estimation of the humanity or personhood of the unborn child."

The line has to be drawn somewhere doesn't it? A person that is 17.9 years old is considered a child, a person that is 18 years old is considered an adult. Pragmatic distinctions have to be made. I think the only reasonable one here is "you are only endowed with human rights and citizenship once you're born." We don't give fetuses Social Security Numbers or allow their mothers to buy insurance policies for them either.

"If you get a chance, I'd be interested to see what you think about the other links I posted earlier. My intent isn't to shock you with gore. These images put the abortion issue in a historical context and try to correlate it with racial and ethnic injustices of other generations."

I browsed through them. It's not reasonable to correlate abortion with the "racial and ethnic injustices" suffered by the victims of the Nazis, the Khmer Rouge, the Ku Klux Klan, or whoever else. Abortion is a voluntary medical procedure offered to all women regardless of their race, ethnicity or socioeconomic status. Genocide is something forced on a population against its will for the purposes of decimating or marginalizing it.

"Have a nice night Ahab."

Thank you, and thank you for being civil here.

Posted by: Ahab at May 1, 2009 2:37 PM


"I get his point, but from where I sit, it's murder, and there has to be a better way."

I just wanted to briefly comment on this too. The "better way" you're referring to would be society doing a better job of encouraging birth control and other pre-emptive measures to help prevent unwanted pregnancy in the first place. Paradoxically, many of the supposedly "pro-life" people so horrified with abortion actually actively oppose contraception and birth control methods. The Catholic Church deliberately forbids these things and is the loudest opponent of abortion there is. How many unwanted pregnancies (and by extension, abortions) could the pro-life movement, with the backing of the powerful Catholic Church, prevent if they used their vast resources to that end instead of pushing for marginal political gains on the abortion issue?

Posted by: Ahab at May 1, 2009 2:43 PM


"Paradoxically, many of the supposedly "pro-life" people so horrified with abortion actually actively oppose contraception and birth control methods. The Catholic Church deliberately forbids these things and is the loudest opponent of abortion there is."

Did you know 50% of abortions are due to failed birth control? It's not the answer.

Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 3:07 PM


Ahab 4:24PM

What Dred Scott and Plessy v Ferguson show is that justices are as influenced by their prejudices as any of the rest of us. It is frightening that a justice can find what suits him in the Constitution, as did these justices.
Again I ask, where did the Constitution sanction segregation? Where did it sanction slaves as property?
Anything less than adhering to the wording of the Constitution can have some serious consequences, as the above mentioned cases prove.

Posted by: Mary at May 1, 2009 8:55 PM


What's refined about abortion??

Suction Aspiration abortion (also called Vacuum Aspiration) is the most common abortion procedure in practice today. About 90% of all abortions happen in the first trimester, and this method accounts for the vast majority of those first trimester abortions. For the procedure to begin, the woman's cervix must be manually dilated with a series of rods to allow for the insertion of a hollow plastic tube with a sharp cutting-tip. This tube is connected to a suction machine that is able to pull the tiny, developing human being apart as it is suctioned out of the uterus (killing him or her in the process). The remains are deposited into a collection canister. The placenta must then be cut away from the uterine wall before it, too, can be sucked into a collection bottle.

Nothing about that sounds refined, does it?

And as far as genocide goes, abortion categorically does qualify. That fact that Margaret Sanger was a vocal supporter of Malthusian eugenics, and wrote more than one article in praise of Adolph Hitler's social policies should be better known than it is. At a March 1925 international birth control gathering in New York City, a speaker warned of the menace posed by the "black" and "yellow" peril. The man was not a Nazi or Klansman; he was Dr. S. Adolphus Knopf, a member of Margaret Sanger's American Birth Control League (ABCL), which along with other groups eventually became known as Planned Parenthood. 78% of their clinics are in minority communities. Blacks make up 12% of the population, but 35% of the abortions in America. How can it not be apparent that the black community has been targeted? Isn't that genocide? African-Americans are the only minority in America that is on the decline in population. If the current trend continues, by 2038 the black vote will be insignificant. Margaret Sanger, was a devout racist who created the Negro Project designed to sterilize unknowing black women and others she deemed as undesirables of society? The founder of Planned Parenthood said, "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated."

Sounds like genocide to me...

Posted by: Hutch at May 1, 2009 11:25 PM


Hey Ahab,

Just wanted you to know how refreshing it is to engage someone in thoughtful dialogue about abortion. The issue stirs so much passion on both sides the discussions usually escalate to extremist rants within a few exchanges of comments.

"The line has to be drawn somewhere doesn't it? A person that is 17.9 years old is considered a child, a person that is 18 years old is considered an adult. Pragmatic distinctions have to be made. I think the only reasonable one here is "you are only endowed with human rights and citizenship once you're born."

True enough. But yet even when we draw those lines our judicial system makes exceptions and, for example, tries some juviniles as adults because the juvinile sentencing guidelines don't fit the crime.

I couldn't articulate our point of view any better than Kathy Ireland does here (plus she's pretty easy on the eyes):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-gDPcr-sxw

The one additional comment she made that was edited out of this clip was that an embryo doesn't look like a baby, nor does a baby look like a teenager, nor does a teenager look like a senior. They are all different stages of development in a human life.

But as you point out Ahab, pragmatic challenges remain. Our society recognizes birth cerificates, not conception certificates.

Gotta run, I'll post some additional comments later.

Posted by: Ed at May 3, 2009 9:41 AM


IF there is such a thing as karma and reincarnation, as the Hindus and Buddhists teach, and many "pro-choicers" believe, then it stands to reason that those who choose and support abortions will be FORCED to BE ABORTED THEMSELVES in their next life, life after life after life, until the debt is paid. Or, if the day comes they WANT children, they won't be able to have them.

Action have consequences. If Jesus Christ didn't die for your sins, then you are on your own. We reap what we sow...

Posted by: Marie at May 11, 2009 12:24 PM