I dream fondly of a day when the religion (or lack thereof) of candidates is a total non-issue, and the electorate is only interested in how they will govern. Alas, I don't think we'll see that day any time soon.

If you think that abortions should be illegal, I have two questions:

1. What should be the penalty for women? Should they go to jail?

2. What happens to your pro-life goals when a woman dies from an illegal abortion?

A.R.

1.) What was the penalty for women before Roe vs Wade?

2.) What happens to your pro-choice goals when women die from legal abortions every year?

Should a woman go to jail? Absolutely! She should receive the same sentence as any other murderer. Why should other murderers have to sit and rot?

A pro life goal when she dies from illegal abortion? How many illegal abortion deaths were there prior to Roe vs. Wade?

Why weren't murdering mothers prosecuted back then?

We have 1.3 million new murderers roaming society every year.

Heather, chill out. Some of those 1.3 million murderers were murderers before....

Probably only about a million new ones each year.

hal, thank you for agreeing:]

hal, I just realized that I do know quite a few murderers. It's kind of creepy. I've decided that I don't want to keep in touch with them any longer.

hal, I'm especially leary of the repeat offenders.

oops meant *leery*

Heather, it's hard to take you seriously, (I know the feeling's mutual) but I've met a few real murderers in my time, and of course know many women who have had abortions. It's not the same thing at all.

You guys think some birth control is abortion, and abortion is murder, so every sexually active woman on the pill is a potential murderer???? What the penalty for that attempted murder?

hal, it's hard to take you seriously all the time.

Hal,

Well, I don't know who "you guys" are but I have no moral issue with contraception. I have a problem with abortion and euthanasia. I believe this nation was founded on the right of every individual, from their natural creation, to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. I don't believe these rights are only for those with the power to secure them for themselves.

________________________________________________________

And to Jen R.

I dream fondly of a day when the religion (or lack thereof) of candidates is a total non-issue, and the electorate is only interested in how they will govern.

Posted by: Jen R at December 10, 2007 3:53 PM
____________________________________________________________

Amen.

hal, my feeling about you remains. You could not watch a single abortion video. You couldn't watch 'The Silent Scream' you couldn't watch 'The Choice Blues' and you couldn't watch 'Frontline.' Hal, shouldn't you be able to be proud of what you choose? Hal, you are a coward.

hal, were you in the delivery room when your daughters were born?

Heather, I watched one of the videos. It was bloody. It didn't change my mind. Calling me a coward doesn't really bother me.

If you don't think the Birth Control Pill is immoral, then we have one thing we can agree on.

Here's another video for you to avoid, Hal. 'The Hard Truth'.....look at the aborted babies left to die in buckets.

hal, I don't believe you!!

Which one did you watch?

Yes, I was in the room, and cut the cord for #2. My first daughter was a bit of difficult delivery, which partially explains why I'm such a huge fan of our ob/gyn. He really impressed me that night.

hal, don't praise him too much. He also killed 2 of your children.

hal, you used the old "I can't watch blood and guts" song and dance when it came to the abortion videos. However, you were able to attend a birth???

Hey Hal. I wanted to tell you, the day after my daughter was born I had a lot of people say lots of really nice things to me on this blog, but one thing that really stuck with me for some reason is what you said about your daughter, and how you were up with her all night, just listening to her breathing. It's so simple, but I was thinking about how special that is. And then you mentioned how now she's in the teen (??) years and giving you some problems. It's weird- for some reason I feel this connection with you... I know it really doesn't mean anything to you, but I pray for her and you, just that things end up going well with her. I guess it just made me really sad to think about my daughter "turning" on me, which it seems like it may have happened to you. Ah, I'm insane. I just wanted to share that you.

What happened in te abortion video that you watched? I'm trying to figure out which one it was.

Bobby, I hope you are enjoying being a new dad!

Bobby, teenage years are a challenge, but I don't for a second think my daughter has turned on me. I don't remember what I said about her, but I must not have been clear. We are still very close and I couldn't be more proud of her. Both my daughters delight me daily.

I have been impressed with you on this site, and sincerely wish you and your family the best. I appreciate your prayers, although for me, of course, "it's the thought that counts."

Oh good, glad to hear that it all is okay with you Hal. I was obviously very emotional at the time, so I probably read way too deeply into what you said. But thank you for your well wishes for my family. And Heather, yes, being a father is beyond words. I'm just so infatuated with my daughter. God love you.

Bobby, thank you. Hal, are you going to answer me?

Heather, I don't know what to say. There wasn't much blood at my daughters' births. I'd be there even if there was. I would have been in the room during the abortions, but was not allowed.

Sometimes, even us cowards have to do things we don't really want to, just because it's the right thing to do.

hal, which video did you watch?

I wonder why they wouldn't allow you in for the abortion procedure. It's just some "tissue" isn't it?

Sometimes, even us cowards have to do things we don't really want to, just because it's the right thing to do.

Posted by: Hal at December 10, 2007 5:18 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hal, TVLand is going to have a "Facts of Life" marathon. If you don't watch every moment of it I'm going to call you a coward. (Then I'm gonna have Tootie kick your @zz!)

hal, are you there?

Thanks Laura. If I survived the Barney years, I think I can handle the Facts of Life. But...call me a coward if you wish.

Heather, I don't know why they wouldn't let me be there (not really to "watch.")

HAL, what video did you watch? Last time.

Giuliani's seperation of church and state?

Let's not forget H.Clintons.

H.Clinton is Bush with lipstick.

It's a real estate developer's sugar-plum dream: a mega-shopping mall complete with 10 Broadway-style theaters, an indoor river, a Tuscan village and a 39-story luxury hotel sheathed in green solar panels shaped like giant blades of grass. Plus as much as $1 billion in government-backed financing, thanks in part to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton....

...Since taking office in 2001, Clinton has delivered $500 million worth of earmarks that have specifically benefited 59 corporations. About 64% of those corporations provided funds to her campaigns through donations made by employees, executives, board members or lobbyists, a review by the Los Angeles Times shows.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/10/hillary-clinton-lands-ear_n_76048.html

Hal, you lied to me.

Heather, what is that? a threat? I saw a video with a lot of rough prodding in a vigina and a lot of blood pouring out.

I didn't see buckets of dead babbies. Maybe next time.

Heather, I'm not a liar, I'm a coward.

a threat? what are you talking about? Don't be so quick to get on the defensive! WOW!

hal, you're both as far as I'm concerned.

I am sooo glad that I don't have a husband like Hal!!!!!

Hal, You keep on believing your sorry arse lies. How is your therapy coming? Didn't Hisman tell you that therapy wasn't the answer? Hal,you haven't changed a bit! Still in denial. Still deceived by the devil and lies.

Hal, You keep on believing your sorry arse lies. How is your therapy coming? Didn't Hisman tell you that therapy wasn't the answer? Hal,you haven't changed a bit! Still in denial. Still deceived by the devil and lies.

Posted by: heather at December 10, 2007 5:41 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You keep believing that you have a husband, and that you're employed, AND that you're a nurse.

You keep believing that you have a husband, and that you're employed, AND that you're a nurse.

Posted by: Laura at December 10, 2007 5:45 PM And you keep believing that you are a hot, young, chick. Imagine that! A 45 year old gutted loser who still acts like she's 14.

Yup, still tormenting your neighbors. Maybe if you would have had kids, you wouldn't be so bored.

Oh, and don't forget the "Facts of Life re runs." Not enough to do.

hal, Laura the lap dog has always got your back. Laura just lives for this!

I apprecaite the Laura's support

Heather,

You sound pretty upset. I get upset too. I know people say mean things, but it just isn't worth it to get too upset. Even if you think someone is a so and so, you will feel better if you take a more charitable spirit towards those with whom you disagree.

Please know that many of us are committed to working on ways to help women choose life and on ways to protect precious unborn children.

If you have children, maybe take a minute to give them a hug. Show them the picture of that implanted embryo and tell them that is how they started and what precious miracles they are.

Okay, I really mean this to be helpful and I hope you don't feel offended, Heather.

I apprecaite the Laura's support

Posted by: Hal at December 10, 2007 5:56 PM Except for the post she placed about women who have more than 1 abortion. It drew her to conclude one of 2 things about that woman..A.]She liked the abortion SO much that she had another..or B.] She's dumber than a sack of hammers. Hal, since your wife has had 2 abortions, which one best describes her?

Heather, we've had this discussion before. Laura's okay with me.

hippie, I'm not upset at all. I'm calm, actually. Too bad we can't express emotion in our typing. I'm just sick of Hal and his lies.

Heather, we've had this discussion before. Laura's okay with me.

Posted by: Hal at December 10, 2007 6:01 PM Hal, of course she is. She backs up the fact that you lie. You couldn't ask for more.

How sick of my lies can you be? I've been pretty quiet for the last three weeks.

When is the Facts of Life marathon coming on?

Don't read too much into people not wanting to watch your endless array of abortion videos. Does anyone really want to watch blood gushing out of someone's vagina for 9 minutes? A minute and a half and you get the idea, abortion is icky, yes we agree.

How sick of my lies can you be? I've been pretty quiet for the last three weeks.

Posted by: Hal at December 10, 2007 6:08 PM Well, I want you to know that I don't forget.

The Facts of Life marathon? I'd rather watch paint dry. That is an old show, isn't it?

It's from the 80s

My computer is going so slow.

@JKeller: I'd kill for a M*A*S*H marathon or something.

*misses Hawkeye*

The Munsters is my favorite.

I'm still waiting for Max Headroom to come out on DVD.

Hal and Bambino,
Yes, I recall Hal's touching sentiments about his own daughter's birth when Gianna made her grand entrance.
My immediate thought was "Gee, if he feels so strongly about his little girl who's in the here-and-now, couldn't/wouldn't/ shouldn't he have felt the same for #1 and #4? If he had given them permisssion to live, wouldn't they have been just as much a joy as the ones he DID give permission to live?"

And then I was sad.

But then I thought about The Kid and was happy all over again.

carder, it is sad that Hal fails to realize that he is wrong. I give up. I'm going to leave him alone. He just keeps justifying his wrongs, and I just have to leave him to his own self destructive thinking. *shrugs*

Heather,

Just because someone doesn't answer you right away on a blog doesn't mean they don't want to. Calm down. All I've seen from you are attacks, hatred, and insults without a single worthwhile thing to say. It's always the same old "Hal, you're a murderer" or "Laura, you're old" or "______ you are so blind/evil".

Come on.

Heather,

Just because someone doesn't answer you right away on a blog doesn't mean they don't want to. Calm down. All I've seen from you are attacks, hatred, and insults without a single worthwhile thing to say. It's always the same old "Hal, you're a murderer" or "Laura, you're old" or "______ you are so blind/evil".

Come on.

Posted by: Stephanie at December 10, 2007 7:49 PM Stephanie, Laura attacks me all the time.

Stephanie, I thought you were the one who said "I wish abortion would just go away." I can't tell. You keep supporting it.

Taking the high road is the better thing to do, for the record...

Stephanie, when I am attacked personally, what do you think I ought to do? What would you do? You EXPECT that from pro lifers. Let me tell you what I think. These are grown men and women. They had better be able to take what they dish out. I don't see you scolding Laura for her insults. Why not?

Why do you accuse me of not being calm? In real life, I'm blunt, but I'm sweet:]

Rae, you have a point, but I want to know why I'm always told to "calm down" and "behave"..FYI, I have been accused of being an uneducated welfare mother who had an "obligation" to abort. etc. Nobody said a word to Laura. Who will defend me if I don't defend me?

BTW, I am NOT on welfare!

Besides, society holds us accountable for what we do as adults. Hal is lying, and I know it. So, I called him on it. He became defensive. That's what cowards do. Heck, let him stay stuck in his own self deception for all I care. I'm done with him.

Heather, why do you think Hal is lying?

"Rae, you have a point, but I want to know why I'm always told to "calm down" and "behave"..FYI, I have been accused of being an uneducated welfare mother who had an "obligation" to abort. etc. Nobody said a word to Laura. Who will defend me if I don't defend me?"

I think you're told to calm down or behave because sometimes it seems as though you're getting hysterical, especially when you start calling people evil, or liars, or tell people they're going to Hell. That doesn't exactly sound like somebody who is calm or rational.

And who cares what Laura says? Ignore her. She does it to make you angry because apparently you're an easy target due to your defensiveness.

And for the record, I've been called some very unpleasant things as well, and occasionally I do lose my temper and react back, but mostly I try to either ignore what that person said OR I ask them why they think that way and try to show them that they are incorrect in their ASSumptions.

Some folks say if you don't meet their criteria of being smart enough, old enough, or financially stable enough, you should not have a baby.

Well, we are a pretty rich country. I would bet 95% of the people in the world live below the US poverty line. So if our poverty line were the cutoff, then basically 95% shouldn't have kids by their definition.

Then there is education. Only 6% have a college education. So by that definition 94% shouldn't have kids.

And the age thing. They are always upset about teen moms. Only about 5% of births are to teens most of which are to adults of 18 or 19 years. When you consider that age 15-19 represents 20% of a woman's childbearing years then really the 5% is unnaturally low. So unnatural in fact that delaying childbearing past 20 years of age is described as "an established risk factor" for disease when you read health research studies.

I think people should be able to use contraception, but not forget that sex causes people. They also need to be able to count on the rest of us to care about them even when things in their lives don't go as planned.

"I think people should be able to use contraception, but not forget that sex causes people. They also need to be able to count on the rest of us to care about them even when things in their lives don't go as planned."

RAmen hippie, RAmen.

Hippie, have I mentioned that you're pretty much awesome? Lol.

Can I just cut in here and say that I'm SO EXCITED BECAUSE MY LIFE IS WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!

That is all. I had to share with someone. All y'all came to mind.

Abortion is an affront to the creative nature of God, it negates God as Creator.

Abortion denies the power of God to right a wrong, to show forth His glory, it negates God as redeemer.

Abortion makes that which is good, the birth of human life, into that which is evil, the death of human life, and then calls it good, the very definition of blasphemy.

Abortion negates the resurrection power of God as it takes flesh that is alive in it's earthly abode (the womb) and kills it, while God takes that flesh which is dead in it's earthly abode (the grave) and desires to make it alive, abortion's desire is to take that which was composed from the chaotic array of elemental molecules into a symphony of life infused with an eternal soul, and turn it back to the entropy of randomness, chaos, nothingness, uselessness, decay, death.

Abortion is against all that is hopeful, all that requires faith for success; for it's solution; annihilation, it's goal; death, it's dream; breaking God's heart, it's vision, satan's ultimate power. Abortion is a counterfeit, for the clawprints of satan are everywhere to be found in its performance; abortion disguises hate as love, bondage as freedom, choice as maturity, sin as righteousness, political correctness as wisdom.

Abortion pits men against women, mothers against their children, fathers against God.

Yes, abortion is satan's feeble attempt at killing God himself, for abortion is a metaphor for satan; it is his coat of arms, his family crest, his logo, his brand, it belongs to him......for he laughs at its willing proponents as they craft their own self-destruction, mantled in self-deception.
It did not work at Calvary. It will not work here.

Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Holy Spirit have mercy...........and let any that need to repent and confess do it now, finding grace and forgiveness, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Credit goes to His Man. [[above post]]

What makes me think that Hal is lying? I just know he is. He avoided those abortion videos like the plague before, and I guarantee he still is.

Ok..I can't help it...I must post a comment..

Heather...absolutely beautiful, heartfelt and tearjerking.

The sum of all my thoughts and prayers..

God Bless you - in Jesus' name!

Rae, LOL! I really don't think that you would let the same things roll off. I wouldn't take that abuse in "real life" and I'm not going to take abuse from a nut job in cyber life. What for?

AB Laura, yay!!

And Heather, I totally agree with you regarding Hal. How on earth can someone kill 2 children and give birth to 2children. How can someone express such joy with the "live" ones, and show no remorse or repentance for the one's they killed. IMO, Hal has 4 children, and should tell people he has 4. He and his wife are both cowards for making the arrogant "choice" of which ones would be given a chance in life and which ones wouldn't.

AB Laura, Hal does indeed have 4 children. He can't watch the videos. The guilt would crush him! I'm so sick and tired of him trying to tell women what a wonderful choice abortion is. Watch what you support! He has copped out 4 times. That's it. I know what he's about.

AB Laura, I am so glad you are here!!!

I'm glad to be back, too. You were my inspiration tonight...reading your posts & seeing your frustrations (the same as I was feeling). However, you inspired me to not sit back and take it...my typing fingers are part of my body...my body, my choice! I'm sure the atheists will understand that! And if they don't like what I have to write...they don't have to read it...their choice!!!!

AB Laura, just think of how little they think of the unborn. I would never want to have such a hardened heart. I would never want to have that dead soul. All we can do is pray that they'll have a change of heart. Otherwise, they will be turned over to a reprobate mind. I won't be.

AB Laura, what's most upsetting is that the same "doctor" who murdered Hal's 2 children, delivered his other 2. I would NEVER let that SOB touch me if I knew he had ever performed an abortion. That sickens me! I don't want a murderer to ever touch me.

hal calls him "a great guy."

Yeah, he probably thinks that he's "a great guy" because he goes along with Hal's sick & twisted "let's play God" scenario...

great minds think alike! *hi 5*

*right back atcha!*

I find it so funny that any PCer like Sally, Laura, or Somg can come along and say anything they want to. Somg has even suggested the execution of Paul Hill's wife and children. However, when a pro lifer says something out of line, they go nuts!

Does being PC give you a free pass to be ignorant, insulting, and abusive? Not in my book.

Or when a pro-lifer says something about God...whoa...look out! However, I really must have been tugging at their heartstrings, because I noticed that alot of people will post things about God...I guess I just do it more! Whatever...they really need to hear it! They accused me of "shoving God down their throats". I could only be so lucky to have that power! Their jaws are so tightly wired, the only thing that can get down thier throats is the venom that they spew!

There...I've vented!

Again, if they don't like it...they don't have to read it!

I enjoy your posts, Heather! You make GREAT points, and that's why they come down hard on you. I think you intimidate their "beliefs".

Heather,

Based on what you've said to Hal (that one should be willing to watch what one supports), I gather that you believe that people must be willing to view something in order to support it. Yet I support heart surgery, brain surgery, c-sections, and many other medical procedures that I would never, ever want to watch. So does that mean that my support is not genuine? Why should I have to be willing to watch something in order to support it?

Surgery is a bloody, messy process. Not wanting to watch that doesn't mean that one doesn't support surgical procedures.

Another note. Most anti-abortion advocates have stated that they support sex when it occurs within the bounds of a legal marriage. Using your logic, how can you support that unless you're willing to sit down and watch married couples having sex?

"Does being PC give you a free pass to be ignorant, insulting, and abusive? Not in my book."

Heather,
If they have no regard for a tiny, helpless human, why would we expect anything better? I mean, look at all of the horrible names that they call a tiny, helpless baby!

Enigma, I can watch brain surgery and heart surgery and plastic surgery. I have sex, so I don't really need to watch it. I do it.

Enigma,
Courts will make a murderer look at the evidence of his/her horrific crime during a court case, why shouldn't this be any different? If Hal is so proud of what he did (as a sadistic murderer is,) that he encourages others to do so, why can't he look at it? Murderers are usually proud of their accomplishments!

The examples that you used do not equate..One is love (sex between married couples), the other is hate (killing a child).

If Hal is so proud of what he did that he encourages others to do so, why can't he look at it?

Heather,

"Enigma, I can watch brain surgery and heart surgery and plastic surgery."

Good for you. Not everyone can tolerate watching surgeries. Does this mean that they can't support them?

"I have sex, so I don't really need to watch it. I do it."

Couldn't you also make this argument for Hal? He and his wife went through the abortion process, so they really don't need to watch it. His wife did it.

Enigma, I don't like to pussy foot around. I like to get to my point. I believe that abortion is murder. I'm sorry if you don't, and I refuse to argue about personhood or body autonomy.

No. Here's why. Hal will never have an abortion. He put his wife through that. How can a man support a "good thing" for women, and they will never experience it themselves? I expect him to watch an abortion video, and then get back to me.

For that matter, watch this video.."The Choice Blues"..you will see the body parts of the baby being ripped out.

If I'd ever believed that an aborted baby looked like a blood clot, that video set me straight. It's a great education tool.

AB Laura,

"Courts will make a murderer look at the evidence of his/her horrific crime during a court case, why shouldn't this be any different?"

Well, actually, as far as I'm aware, evidence of the horrific crimes is presented to the jury as just that: evidence. It is not presented to force the accused to confront it.

"If Hal is so proud of what he did (as a sadistic murderer is,) that he encourages others to do so, why can't he look at it?"

He didn't say that he was proud, or if he did, I missed it.

I've had knee surgery and I encourage others who have the same injury to have the surgery because it works. Yet I'm not willing to watch the surgery itself because I'm squeemish and it involved drilling into the bone. Since I advocate it, does that mean that I have to watch the process itself?

"Murderers are usually proud of their accomplishments!"

Legally, Hal and his wife are not murderers.

"The examples that you used do not equate."

Why not? Whether one deals with love and the other deals with hate (which is your opinion, by the way) or not is irrelevant to my overall point.

Heather argued that if one supports something, one should be willing to watch it. Since logic either holds across almost all circumstance or it is not logic at all, her argument should be applicable to other things as well.

Hence my question.

Most anti-abortion advocates have stated that they support sex when it occurs within the bounds of a legal marriage. Using your logic, how can you support that unless you're willing to sit down and watch married couples having sex?

"If Hal is so proud of what he did that he encourages others to do so, why can't he look at it?"

Hal did not say he was proud.

I am pleased enough with my decision to have knee surgery that I would advocate it for others with similar injuries, provided that their doctors do not oppose the surgery. So why can't I look at it? Does that mean that I am ashamed or that it was wrong decision? Does that mean that I shouldn't have had surgery and that I shouldn't urge people to have the surgery even though I know that it improves lives?

Heather,

"Enigma, I don't like to pussy foot around. I like to get to my point. I believe that abortion is murder. I'm sorry if you don't, and I refuse to argue about personhood or body autonomy."

Since I wasn't arguing about any of those issues, I am frankly puzzled as to why you feel the need to bring this up.

Your refusal to address any of the points that I have raised does not aid your cause.
Posted by: heathe

Abortion is not a necessary surgery. It's an elective surgery. Maternal health is the ONLY reason.

Heather,

"How can a man support a "good thing" for women, and they will never experience it themselves?"

I support plenty of things that I will never experience myself. Personal experience is not a prerequisite for support.

"I expect him to watch an abortion video, and then get back to me."

Hal owes you nothing. Your insistence that he should do exactly what you say simply because you expect it is controlling and manipulative.

*meant exception -not reason*

Heather,

"Abortion is not a necessary surgery. It's an elective surgery."

What's your point? Should elective surgeries be outlawed?

Once again, you're trying to avoid responding to my points by counter-arguing points that I never raised to begin with.

My knee surgery was elective too.

Hal is being controlling and manipulative by advocating abortion as a good choice.

Abortion kills a baby. Knee surgery does not.

Heather,

Either respond to my points or I'm ending this conversation.

You're ignoring my arguments and attempting to engage me in a completely different debate. I am thus forced to conclude that you cannot respond to my arguments and so have chosen to try to confuse the issue so that you can avoid them.

If you need knee surgery, then you should have it done. Don't get pregnant, and then wail about how you need an abortion. You should have thought about that before sex.

"Rae, LOL! I really don't think that you would let the same things roll off. I wouldn't take that abuse in "real life" and I'm not going to take abuse from a nut job in cyber life. What for?"

@Heather: Do you really want to go there? I've been called a "lesbian", evil, immoral, and been told I must be possessed by Satan and that I need to change the fact I don't believe in God. I've been called an evil baby-killer, a "damned liberal". I've been called a Nazi.

Needless to say, of course not all of these things have happened here (though a good portion did), but I took it and tried to hold my temper in and take the high road.

When I was in middle school, there was this kid who picked on me every single day. Every single day he told me I should just kill myself and that the world would be better off without me and that I was ugly, fat, and stupid. And you know what? After awhile, instead of getting angry at him and kicking him in the shin like I normally did, I just smiled at him and said, "Thank you." He didn't know what to say or do and eventually it weirded him out so much, he just quit.

I'm not saying you should "take it", but just consider the source and just realize that what Laura or anybody says isn't true and take stock in that. Either that or just say, "Thank you" and leave it at that.

Heather,

Either respond to my points or I'm ending this conversation.

You're ignoring my arguments and attempting to engage me in a completely different debate. I am thus forced to conclude that you cannot respond to my arguments and so have chosen to try to confuse the issue so that you can avoid them.

Posted by: Enigma at December 10, 2007 10:11 PM Enigma, I owe you nothing. I'm not playing your games. Play them with someone else!

Rae, I must have missed that. EEsh!

Rae, sorry that happened to you. I really must have missed it. Well, I'm off to bed y'all. It's 11:17 E.T. I'm off to bed. Have a great night all.

Heather,

"Enigma, I owe you nothing. I'm not playing your games."

And I refuse to engage in yours. Have a nice night.

@Heather: It happened awhile ago, back when I first started posting here. It also happened on other message boards I post on.

I'm just saying when people are being mean to you, don't waste your energy being mean back.

Because I'll be honest, I don't like you, but I want to help you so you don't feel so persecuted and what not because I had the same problem with getting picked on for a long time.

Rae,
That is so sad! I'm glad you didn't listen to that kid in middle school!

I had knee surgery. I also saw the video recording of it, and own the video tape. I wonder how many abortionists offer the video recording of their surgeries.

Good point, Brian! Abortionists won't even let a man in the room. I wonder why! I mean, it's totally moral, legal, and a healthy choice, right? So why not? (LMAO!)

@AB Laura: I almost did, a couple times, to be honest. It's part of the reason I've been in and out of therapy since I was 12 (among other reasons...).

However, I just keep trying to tell myself how worthless people who make fun of me are and that they aren't worth my time, even if it does really hurt.

I dream fondly of a day when the religion (or lack thereof) of candidates is a total non-issue, and the electorate is only interested in how they will govern. Alas, I don't think we'll see that day any time soon.

Posted by: Jen R at December 10, 2007 3:53 PM

Huckabee on Religion

When Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee was asked why he and other GOP candidates keep expounding their views on religion, his answer was simple: Because journalists keep asking about them.

Matthews pressed on: “But these are religious test questions. They’re not about public policy.”

Referring to the most recent GOP debate, Huckabee shot back: “I would love for us to be asked questions about education and healthcare and energy independence. Unfortunately, those were the questions that nobody did ask us…

“I didn’t get to pick the questions. If I did, I promise I’d have picked some different questions for me and for the other candidates as well.”

Huckabee also told Matthews there should be no “religious test” for public office or even a requirement that a person has to be religious at all.

“I’d rather have a person serving in Congress who’s an avowed atheist, who’s honest about it,” he said, “than a person who tries to pretend he’s a Christian when he doesn’t live like it and he’s filled with hate and venom and anger toward people.”

Huckabee: ‘Wives should serve husbands’

Dec. 10: Worst person: Mike Huckabee signed a full page ad in USA Today in 1998, under a “statement on the family” which said "A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband."

A.R. asked as if they were asking a tough question for pro-lifers (it isn't and is in fact very simple to answer).

"1. What should be the penalty for women? Should they go to jail?"

ALL murderers must be given the punishement of execution in order for justice to be brought about. God made it clear that the only just punishment for murder is execution. God also made it known that prison does not work and that imprisonment is an unjust form of punishment that pagan nations use, but God will not use since it is unjust.

Also, anyone directly involved with helping to murder the baby is to be tried for murder and upon conviction executed. So, from one murder those possibly implicated in participating in helping to commit it would be 1)the mother 2)the abortionist 3)the clinic workers 4)the boyfriend/husband 5)the parent or parents 6) a friend or other relative that helped in committing the crime

Basicly, anyone who knowingly helped the mom GET THERE, PAID FOR IT, SAT THERE AND DID NOTHING WHILE THEY KNEW IT WAS GOING ON, or PERFORMED OR HELPED PERFORM THE ACT OF MURDER.

"2. What happens to your pro-life goals when a woman dies from an illegal abortion?"

I would let everyone in the community know about it and hold it up as an example of what can happen to a mom who tries to murder her child.

Plus, I would be sure to show no pity for the murdererous mom publicly, but would show pity and great sadness for the innocent baby who was murdered.

Here is a great video response to your question if you want a response from someone on video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzOcTJpgx0k

Heather, picking up on Enigma's argument, do you eat beef? If so, are you willing to watch a video of the way cattle are treated? Bull calves are forcibly castrated to turn them into steers. Then, in most cases, they spend the last several months of their lives on feed lots with very little room to move around, eating corn, which is like twinkies to them, yummy but not healthy. As a result of the diet and the surroundings, their health isn't great, so they get injected with antibiotics. And finally, they are hearded through ramps to a stall where someone knocks them out with a stungun, essentially a mechanical hammer to the brain. Hopefully they get killed on the first strike. Otherwise, they tense up in terror.

Are you willing to watch a video of all this, Heather? If not, how can you eat beef? And just in case you don't eat beef, chicken and pork are just as bad. BTW, I eat all three, though I try to find meat that has been humanely raised and treated.

Also, I love Hal's logic from earlier in the thread: If the pill is abortion and abortion is murder, then what should be the penalty for all the women on the pill? Should we put millions of them in jail? For how long?

Because I'll be honest, I don't like you, but I want to help you so you don't feel so persecuted and what not because I had the same problem with getting picked on for a long time.

Actually, I'm glad you broke the ice there Rae. I don't like you either.

Rae, also. I don't want your help!!! I now know what your old pal was talking about when it came to you. 2 faced comes to mind.

Ray, aren't you about to become a dad? Are you a dad yet? I wonder if you will still promote murder once you are a dad.

@Heather: It happened awhile ago, back when I first started posting here. It also happened on other message boards I post on.

I'm just saying when people are being mean to you, don't waste your energy being mean back.

Because I'll be honest, I don't like you, but I want to help you so you don't feel so persecuted and what not because I had the same problem with getting picked on for a long time.

Posted by: Rae at December 10, 2007 10:18 PM -------- Sorry, I think you must have me confused with someone who gives a damn.

RaY, Let's start with the mothers who kill their children. We have to make abortion illegal first and take it from there. One step at a time. Women who kill their kids should be penalized.

Anonymous @10:38: Yes, I really appreciated those comments of Huckabee's. :)

Also, I love Hal's logic from earlier in the thread: What logic? What does eating meat have to do with abortion, and yes I did watch a video of cows in a slaughter house. What of it??

RaY, post a video. I'll watch it.

Ray,

It's very difficult to picture, but Heather and Hal have a very good understanding of each other. They speak very bluntly to each other and to someone first exposed to their saber-rattling, their words would seem unusually harsh. Enigma (like you) came to the same too quick judgment.

I am famous for my seemingly round and round arguments with Doug. Very few of them are actually, but to anyone besides Doug or I, they can get a might tedious. Many months ago I recall Hal being one of the very first PC people on this site. He was very cordial, smart and up-front. It was the very first time I had been exposed to round & round argumentation (words that go nowhere). After much frustration ... I let it drop, because Hal has constantly refused to be moved by intellectual argumentation alone - something like you.

So Heather's call for Hal to view an abortion video is brilliant. There is just one place to go after this .... to the land of 'so-what'. Both Hal and you already have the answer to 'so-what' ... Hal in his daughters and you in your new baby. (Enigma does not 'see' this because she is purposely ignoring it! ... you know, only what you 'chose' to believe as true-fact is in fact, true!!)

*does a dance* thank you, John!!

John,

"After much frustration ... I let it drop, because Hal has constantly refused to be moved by intellectual argumentation alone - something like you."

I know that this isn't about me--but forgive me if it makes me laugh. An abortion rights advocate being faulted for refusing to be influenced by intellectual argument? Maybe if anyone on this sight actually offered any, this would be a genuine complaint

"(Enigma does not 'see' this because she is purposely ignoring it! ... you know, only what you 'chose' to believe as true-fact is in fact, true!!)"

This only shows that you don't understand my argument at all. I'm not the one that conveniently rewrites truth so that it suits me.

To Laura the lap dog, Hal is a big boy who chooses to avoid the truth! Would you rather have someone tell you the truth, or do you prefer lies? Well, never mind. Truth is, we have all known Hal for a while. He constantly comes on and talks about what a "dandy" procedure abortion is. I would darn sure MAKE sure that I could at least VIEW what I support. Especially since Hal will never an abortion.

Enigma, you DO try to avoid truth. You constantly look for someone to justify abortion for you. I refuse to do that for you.

Heather,

I'm not Laura, but I'll assume that the above comment is addressed to me.

Calling me a "lap dog" only reveals how little you know about me as a person. If you really want a comparison, I'm more like a wild cat with very sharp claws that I am not adverse to using.

"Would you rather have someone tell you the truth, or do you prefer lies? "

What makes your conception of "the truth" the correct one? How do you know that it is truth?

"I would darn sure MAKE sure that I could at least VIEW what I support."

That may be your standard. However, this is not a universal standard and it is thus invalid to expect everyone to conform to it and then fault them when they do not.

And I highly doubt that you're willing to view everything that you support. Engaging in something is not the same as viewing it (I believe you'd agree with me, as least as far as your logic applies to abortion.)

So my question still stands: How can you support sex in a marital relationship if you aren't willing to sit down and watch married couples having sex?

And I highly doubt that you're willing to view everything that you support. Engaging in something is not the same as viewing it (I believe you'd agree with me, as least as far as your logic applies to abortion.)

So my question still stands: How can you support sex in a marital relationship if you aren't willing to sit down and watch married couples having sex?

Posted by: Enigma at December 11, 2007 8:47 AM Lady, are you nuts?

Heather,

"You constantly look for someone to justify abortion for you. I refuse to do that for you."

If you keep making jokes my sides are going to start hurting.

I don't look to anyone to justify anything for me. I make my own decisions, thank you very much. If you have a problem with that, I frankly do not care.

Enigma, what married couple should I contact? Should I really ask them if I can watch them have sex?

Heather,

"Lady, are you nuts?"

No, I'm simply pointing out that your standard is illogical because it does not hold across circumstance.

If people have to willing to view something to support it, that standard should hold across the board. Hence, if you support sex within a marital relationship, you should be willing to watch that as well.

ENIGMA, WHAT MARRIED COUPLE WOULD WANT ME TO WATCH THEM HAVE SEX? Is there something the matter with you?

Heather,

Whether or not you would actually be physically able to is not the point.

The point is that if your logic is actually logic and isn't you making rules for circumstances as it pleases you, your standard should apply to this as well.

My above post was to Laura the lap dog, Enigma. I call her that because she always jumps through hoops for Hal.

Heather,

Whether or not you would actually be physically able to is not the point.

The point is that if your logic is actually logic and isn't you making rules for circumstances as it pleases you, your standard should apply to this as well.

Posted by: Enigma at December 11, 2007 8:53 AM***************** *throws up hands* okay, now I am totally confused. However, that is your strategy, isn't it? To try and throw people off.

Enigma, how do you propose I watch a married couple having sex?

I am waiting for a good answer.

Heather,

It can be confusing, but that's not my strategy.

My ultimate point is that if your standard of "you must be willing to view something to support it" is logic and is not simply you attempting to force your point of view onto a particular circumstance, it should hold across the board.

You have not shown me that it does so.

You refused to answer my question about how I can I support knee surgery and support it for other people if I refuse to watch it. Saying that a knee surgery does not "kill" anyone is a smokescreen: you are not answering the question at hand.

For the marital sex example, I am using this for the idea and nothing more. I am asking you how you can support something if you not willing to view it and this happened to be an example that came to mind.

WAAAAIITT a minute, YOU need to answer my ? about married couples first!

Enigma, don't put it out there and then avoid it. Who should I watch having sex? Which married couple?

Heather,

"YOU need to answer my ? about married couples first!"

Why should I extend you a courtesy that you have continually denied me?

In any case, it shouldn't be too difficult really. I'm sure that there is porn out there that features married couples. If not, money talks.

Better yet, why do I need to watch a married couple having sex? Post a video about knee surgery. I'll watch it.

Heather,

What you fail to understand is that I am not avoiding anything because you are taking my example too literally and are thus taking to a place I never meant it to go.

I have seen porn before. What of it?

What do you think that I cannot watch that I support?

Heather,

"Better yet, why do I need to watch a married couple having sex?"

Because how can you support sex in a marital environment if you are not willing to watch it.

"Post a video about knee surgery. I'll watch it."

Are you deliberately misunderstanding me or is this genuine confusion.

My argument about knew surgery had nothing to do with you. I'm not asking if you support the surgery or if you'd be willing to watch it.

My question was if people can support the surgery without being willing to watch it.

In any case, the world awaits and I must depart.

Naturally. You can't think of anything to say.

John McDonnell, BTW, I love that. The land of "so what" LOL! I think I'll use that one at work today.

Enigma,

'tis strange but you do hit upon something that shows an interior 'logic/rationale' SUPERIOR to intellectual logic. The human perceives the world in 4 ways.... with a physical aspect. an intellectual part, an emotional aspect and a 'faith' one. Each in turn has an objective/goal/end-point:for physical reality it is purpose'; for intellectual reality this is 'understanding'; for emotional aspects, it is 'meaning'; and, for 'faith' it points to 'significance'.

Far too often PC'ers (and you) insist that only the first two 'count' as logical. There is a superior pattern to emotional and 'faith' aspects. Heather's question 'Are you nuts?' is in-fact very appropriate because marriage is about love (emotion) and not sex (porn - physical).

The 'faith' aspects are not religious but ALL communication must be based on 'faith' ... I believe in your being able to understand these words, and I believe that if I do write them, they are understandable.

So growing-up is not about acquiring more/superior skills in intellectual argumentation but traveling the new roads of 'emotional' reality. Try the U-tube series called 'quarterlife' at http://quarterlife.com for some insight.

"I now know what your old pal was talking about when it came to you. 2 faced comes to mind."

@Heather: I'm not really sure what you're talking about, but my friend never called me "two-faced". I'm usually pretty blunt, and I have to say, you're definitely not doing your side any favors and it's mind-boggling that you aren't even listening to people who are trying to help you not get "harassed" or "picked on". I'm not trying to be mean, and I do want to help, but I guess you don't want that help so fine, I won't bother.

Heather,

"Naturally. You can't think of anything to say."

This is the height of hilarity. You accuse me, who has attempted to answer your questions and explain my argument while you blatantly ignore my questions and refuse to address anything that might conflict with your world view, of not having anything to say? Can't you do any better than that?

John McDonell, 10:00 AM,

Brilliant!

John,

"Enigma,

"'tis strange but you do hit upon something that shows an interior 'logic/rationale' SUPERIOR to intellectual logic."

I think not.

"The human perceives the world in 4 ways.... with a physical aspect. an intellectual part, an emotional aspect and a 'faith' one."

This part of your argument is true, but you attempt to use it to support a belief that is simply not true.

"Far too often PC'ers (and you) insist that only the first two 'count' as logical."

That's because they're the only ones that are. Last time I checked, there was nothing rational or logical about either emotion or faith.

"There is a superior pattern to emotional and 'faith' aspects."

Blatantly false.

"Heather's question 'Are you nuts?' is in-fact very appropriate because marriage is about love (emotion) and not sex (porn - physical)."

Actually, all that it reveals is that she completely misunderstood me.

I argue concepts and any examples that I use are intended to fit within that pattern. I never argued that marriage was about sex and I never argued that the physical equated with the emotional.

Heather said that if someone supports something they should be willing to watch it--indeed, she goes further than that and implies that support is not genuine is you are unwilling to watch what you support.

My use of watching marital sex was an attempt to demonstrate that people can and do support things that they are unwilling to watch.

Additionally, she has consistently ignored my question about whether or not I can support my knee surgery and whether I can legitimately advocate if for others without being willing to watch it myself. The reason for this continued refusal is because if she admits that I can support it without being willing to watch it, her argument about the illegitimacy of Hal's support for abortion because he won't watch the videos falls apart.

Her question is an attempt to annoy me and confuse the issue to the point where I will not pursue it any longer.

"So growing-up is not about acquiring more/superior skills in intellectual argumentation but traveling the new roads of 'emotional' reality."

Don't patronize me. I may only be 21 but that does not mean that my understandings are necessarily incomplete or that I need to "grow up" and blindly accept your view of the world.

To clarify my last post - By stating "brilliant!", above, I was referring to John's idea that it's normal for different people to perceive things differently. Keeping that in mind can help us to understand each other a little better.

@Heather: I'm not really sure what you're talking about, but my friend never called me "two-faced". I'm usually pretty blunt, and I have to say, you're definitely not doing your side any favors and it's mind-boggling that you aren't even listening to people who are trying to help you not get "harassed" or "picked on". I'm not trying to be mean, and I do want to help, but I guess you don't want that help so fine, I won't bother.

Posted by: Rae at December 11, 2007 10:38 AM
Thanks, I don't want you to help me. You aren't of any help anyway. You said that your old friend "dumped you"...I know why. That's all.

Heather,

"Naturally. You can't think of anything to say."

This is the height of hilarity. You accuse me, who has attempted to answer your questions and explain my argument while you blatantly ignore my questions and refuse to address anything that might conflict with your world view, of not having anything to say? Can't you do any better than that?

Posted by: Enigma at December 11, 2007 10:49 AM****************** I'm glad you find me so funny.

Rae, I'm so glad that you are gone from my conversations from now on. You said that your own friend could not DEAL with you any longer. I can see why.

Heather,

There's getting your point across, and then there's just being needlessly nasty. In your posts to Rae, you have managed to cross that line.

Rae, I just don't like you. I'm just glad you said it first. I won't kiss butt to make you stay. Just me.

Also, I could always tell that you liked it when Laura told me off. You thrive on it. I don't want to talk to you on this thread again. Not ever.

Above to Rae.

Interesting, Heather....

Why, EXACTLY, do you know the reason that "Rae got dumped" by her friend? Can you explain, with COHERENT reasoning, citing Rae's previous statements, where she said that, or are you misunderstanding things to an almost incredibly inept level again? Honestly, sometimes I wonder how you became a nurse with almost infantile reasoning abilities and your ability to miss the point. I'm really not trying to be mean, but I feel it's painfully evident to even members of your own side. They know you mean well, but some of your efforts make me cringe for the established pro-lifers here. You make the meanest, least-founded statements with no real evidence to back them up, and then you round it off by justifying your statement by saying "you're going to hell because you're a pro-abort", or "I don't have to care, because I can believe what I believe, it's all about CHOICE." If you're gonna be a benefit to your side, please attempt your own arguments and quit accusing, demanding, and purposely missing the point/changing the subject because you're woefully inept at a proper rebuttal. Or, leave it to the experts (Mary, Hippie, Bobby, Bethany, etc.).

Good day.

Oh, and Rae: *tacklelove*
I don't think you're two-faced. In fact, I believe you're just about one of the most wonderful people alive. Totally hot nerds FTW!!!

@Heather: Why would you make me leave? You're not normally too mean to me. I've probably been needlessly rude to you and I apologize. I quite frankly enjoy talking on here and reading people's comments on here, I'm in no hurry to leave.

I don't want you to kiss my butt either, that's quite unsanitary. :)

Well, let's just leave each other alone. I don't like you, and you don't like me. Side with Laura. You HAVE to. She really needs you. Suck up as always.

*gigglefit*

Enigma, I have this vision of Heather throwing a temper tantrum, covering her ears and stamping her feet while saying "I'M NOT GONNA LISTEN BECAUSE EVERYTHING I THINK AND SAY IS RIGHT!!! WAAHHHHH!"

Because honestly, that's the impression I get.

Lyssie, none of ya buzzness.

I don't always agree with Laura, Heather.

And why would I thrive on her being mean to you? Sometimes I think she's overly abusive, yes and sometimes I think she has a point. I usually don't involve myself because I don't see a point.

Rae, you kiss her cyber rear! Lyssie, grow up!

Heather, can you give me an example of where I kissed Laura's "cyber rear"?

Sorry, Heather, it becomes my "buzzness" when your inept, hateful comments detract from the quality of the debate here on a public forum on which many people contribute thoughts, including myself and Rae. When one member is attacked by another, it is the right of others to defend the one being attacked. While the only reason you might still be welcome is that you side with the host majority, it's still painfully evident that you don't realize the damage you do sometimes to your side.

Off to bed. Bye.

Kissing cyber butt? All the time. I guess you like it.

Naturally.

Heather, that's not a response. Please show me where I have "kissed cyber butt", in particular, Laura's.

I'm curious where you are getting this.

"Kissing cyber butt? All the time. I guess you like it."

^^^Cheap shot. No evidence. Try again.

Also, reasoning would help.

Lyssie,

"Enigma, I have this vision of Heather throwing a temper tantrum, covering her ears and stamping her feet while saying "I'M NOT GONNA LISTEN BECAUSE EVERYTHING I THINK AND SAY IS RIGHT!!! WAAHHHHH!""

You mean that I'm not the only one?

C'mon guys. She's nailed us.

Just admit that we've all quit our jobs and school so that we can spend all of our time conspiring against Heather.
(Just don't tell her that we all meet at the "Temple of Laura" where you all worship me.)

I'm pretty sure I haven't seen a hissy fit like that in anyone older than 7. The expression "arrested development" comes to mind.

Hahahahah, Laura....

You know, the temple could be a little more...inviting and cozy. Maybe a few throw-rugs? A decorative lamp? And I'll accept a position no lower than high priestess.

Nah, didn't have to quit school. It's a little too easy to manage, even with work in a lab and a full-load of classes.

OK, I'm going to finish the place in animal-print bean-bag chairs and lava lamps. (I'm in a "tasteless retro" phase.)

No one can be a High Priestess unless they bring doughnuts.

(I think this is pretty funny considering that I've tangled with both Lyssie and Rae on rare occasions. You have BOTH failed to recognize my brilliance!)

We totally need a chocolate fountain.

We totally need a chocolate fountain.

Posted by: Enigma at December 11, 2007 9:47 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oooooooooh! And the really good kind of cupcakes!

Oh, I love me the doughnuts. I bring them!! I can bring non-alcoholic drinks, too (being as I'm still 19, dammit).

OH, and the men. I'll bring men.

OK! You've all been declared High Priestesses!

I must go look like I'm workin.
I'll be back...

I suppose I could bring the alcoholic drinks...let's see, Grey Goose, some good wine...hmm...do I need to bring anything else to drink?

Malibu rum? And Bailey's for the lovely miss Rae. :P

John M: I am famous for my seemingly round and round arguments with Doug. Very few of them are actually, but to anyone besides Doug or I, they can get a might tedious. Many months ago I recall Hal being one of the very first PC people on this site. He was very cordial, smart and up-front. It was the very first time I had been exposed to round & round argumentation (words that go nowhere). After much frustration ... I let it drop, because Hal has constantly refused to be moved by intellectual argumentation alone - something like you.

John, agreed that it's not "round and round." You and I make different unprovable assumptions, and henceforth we're not going to agree on certain things. It's wuite a linear deal, really. Same for Hal and you.

You're wrong in pretending that Hal's words "go nowhere," though. It's not that you have any intellectual argumentation that would necessarily apply to Hal (or anybody, for that matter), it's that if Hal, etc., agreed with you in the first place, then and only then would you think them "right."

Doug

Okay! That's it! I wasn't on lyssies list of Pro debaters and NOW I'm not invited to be a high priestess at the Temple of Laura! And I'm probably the only one on here that DOES recognize her brilliance! (Even if it is snide...)...

My heart is broken and I'm taking my twinkies and going home. And no lemon drop shots for you either!

I'll start my own temple! With tons of pink tulle and glitter and, and, and,...

*sob* I want to go to Laura's temple...

Enigma,

The last time we talked was November 11th...Bethany and I waited and waited but you never responded...
Here is the link to that conversation. Would you mind going to it and picking up that thread? Just answer the last posts and we can continue from there...?

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2007/11/twinseparable.html#comments

Laura, you are on here every single day. You actually have a job? I'll bet you do conspire against me all day:]

Mk,

"The last time we talked was November 11th...Bethany and I waited and waited but you never responded..."

Sorry about that, life got hectic. As a student, my life is dictated solely by the whims of my professors.

"Here is the link to that conversation. Would you mind going to it and picking up that thread?"

I went to the thread, but the little box for comments didn't appear.

I do warn you, though, this is finals for me and things are a bit hectic...I'm willing to go back to that conversation, but my answers may be a bit sporadic.

Enigma,

Then let's wait til after Christmas...

MK,

"Then let's wait til after Christmas..."

That probably wouldn't improve things.

My winter break is so hectic that I don't even want to think about it and I'm going abroad next semester.

Heather, I just want to say that I didn't mean to make you so angry. I honestly just wanted to help. Perhaps I wasn't as polite as I could have been but I really meant no ill-will, I really just wanted to help you but I guess I didn't convey that or I did a really poor job of trying to help.

Anyway, I apologize for being so heavy-handed.

Don't worry, MK, you were included in my "Etc.". You're still a pro-debater to me. ;P

I'll start my own temple! With tons of pink tulle and glitter and, and, and,...

*sob* I want to go to Laura's temple...

Posted by: mk at December 12, 2007 8:37 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Glitter?
High Priestess MK is IN THE HIZZY!

Rae, that's okay. I have been quite ill with a sinus infection. I got my Z Pack today:] You know how you just feel crappy, and things hit you the wrong way? It makes you feel 10 times worse. No hard feelings. I don't expect you to like me, and I also must remind myself that we don't all debate with the same style. Sorry for the cheap shots I took at you. I did feel bad.

Heather,
You're so sweet! I hope you get better soon!

AB Laura, thank you. I do feel a bit better, but my throat is really sore.

I'm sorry....

:(

LOL! Not too sore to eat pizza though:] Gotta be honest!

Pizza rocks! I think I live on it sometimes! My favorite is Homerun Inn frozen...what's yours?

Laura, we whipped up a home made one yesterday. Yum!