According to CNSNews.com today:
Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-RI) told CNSNews.com that the Catholic Church is doing nothing but fanning "the flames of dissent and discord" by taking the position that it will oppose the health-care reform bill under consideration in Congress unless it is amended to explicitly prohibit funding of abortion.
"I can't understand for the life of me how the Catholic Church could be against the biggest social justice issue of our time, where the very dignity of the human person is being respected by the fact that we're caring and giving health care to the human person - that right now we have 50 million people who are uninsured," Kennedy told CNSNews.com when asked about a letter the US Conference of Catholic Bishops had sent to members of Congress stating the bishops' position on abortion funding in the health-care bill....
"You mean to tell me the Catholic Church is going to be denying those people life-saving health care? I thought they were pro-life?" said Kennedy. "If the church is pro-life, then they ought to be for health care reform because it's going to provide health care that are going to keep people alive. So this is an absolute red herring and I don't think that it does anything but to fan the flames of dissent and discord and I don't think it's productive at all."
Wow, this guy is crazy irrational.
Opposition to abortion in healthcare is an "absolute red herring"?
And it's not the murder of preborn children that is the "biggest social justice issue of our time." It's nationalized healthcare, which includes coverage for the murder of preborn children, that is the "biggest social justice issue of our time"?
Kudos to Kennedy's audacity for invoking the "very dignity of the human person" to push healthcare coverage, which includes the wholesale slaughter of human persons.
The Kennedy family of perverts exists as pinworms, lice, or ticks with respect to the Catholic Church. It is merely piling one more lunacy onto its legacy of extreme, irrational and immoral speech and behavior.Posted by: pharmer at October 23, 2009 9:59 AM
Maybe someone should explain to him that refusing a provision to exclude abortion coverage in health care reform is jamming up the process and therefor preventing those in need of health care from getting it.Posted by: Cranky Catholic at October 23, 2009 10:19 AM
Good point Cranky!Posted by: Jasper at October 23, 2009 10:22 AM
So does he just repeat everything NARAL tells him to?Posted by: Bobby Bambino at October 23, 2009 10:33 AM
Hmmm, which is the greater injustice, the 50 million people without health insurance or the 50 million butchered and murdered in their mother's womb?
He is an idiot and a fool.Posted by: Ed at October 23, 2009 10:44 AM
I don't even think that abortion is in the health bill. All of the pro-choice advocates are pissed about this bill because of it and even more conservative or moderate-leaning news places say that it isn't in it because, no matter what gets said, the Hyde Amendment isn't going to be undone. It just can't with another bill. It's not legal.
Also, the people who wanted it in the bill couldn't put it in because it would never pass.
So I'm not sure why the Catholic Church is opposing it either, but that's just me. All sorts of representatives- Republican and Democrat- are saying that it's not in there.
How is everyone coming to the conclusion that it is?
I don't mean to sound rude or anything; I just really want to know where you get this so that I can look at it myself. If it's in there, then I want to see the source so that I can read it myself.Posted by: Vannah at October 23, 2009 10:44 AM
Rep Kennedy refuses to understand for the life of him how the Catholic Church could stand firm on the biggest social justice issue of our time, where the very dignity of the human person is being trampled upon by the fact that we're mutilating and dismembering the human person - that right now we have over 50 million people whose blood cries out for justice.
I find curious the use of the word "they" from someone who claims to be a Roman Catholic.Posted by: klynn73 at October 23, 2009 10:52 AM
speechless.Posted by: Janet at October 23, 2009 10:57 AM
Posted by: Vannah at October 23, 2009 10:44 AM
Vannah, it is my understanding that because the bill does not explicitly refuse to provide for abortion there are several ways it can be included after the bill is passed. For instance, you can sue in court that it denies you the coverage. Also, Obama (and others) continually say no TAX dollars will be used for abortion but several independent groups have said that the money to fund them would come out of the premiums that people will pay should there be a public option. And since pro-lifers may want the government option we would not want our money to be used for abortion.
Hope that helps.Posted by: Kristen Olejnik at October 23, 2009 11:01 AM
How eerie that he mentions the figure 50 million. Those are the 50 million that have been able to be born despite Roe v Wade, in contrast to the estimated 50 million aborted since Roe V Wade.Posted by: Row1 at October 23, 2009 11:04 AM
Wondderful....another generation of rhetoric! Do they want to talk about the dignity for life?? How about all of the lives they have taken by their support of abortion! I can not believe we have to continue hearing this family and their point of veiw! Yuck all around!Posted by: IDSCforlife at October 23, 2009 11:06 AM
Abortion is health care. Of course it is in the healthcare bill.
Are you talking about federal funding for abortion?
The Hyde Amendement only cover medicaid and must be renewed each year. Without a provision to specifically exclude abortion coverage, the healthcare bill will use my money and your money to pay for abortions.
Dddd - yes, but some believe that fetuses' "rights" are more important than those actual persons without healthcare. I think that's right, isn't it? Honest question.Posted by: Kat at October 23, 2009 11:07 AM
"I find curious the use of the word "they" from someone who claims to be a Roman Catholic."
Posted by: klynn73 at October 23, 2009 10:52 AM
I do to. I think that these people have problems with authority in general. They (not just the Kennedys) sound like little children. Finding a good spiritual advisor that they can trust would be my advice. It's so sad to see such people who are so distressed. We need to pray for them.Posted by: Janet at October 23, 2009 11:21 AM
Here is a basic, straightforward answer: keep searching the internet, by googling "health care reform" and "abortion." Read a lot.
The challenge is that there is a lot that would be covered that is not specifically mentioned in any text in any proposed legislation. Generally, what might be noted is "care deemed medically necessary by a physican." No legislation says "coronary artery bypass surgery," or "tonsillectomy." The legislation would specify how funding woudl happen. Services delivered would be up to a doc and a patient. There would be some exeptions: there will be some positive mandates: this or that MUST be included, such as behavioral health coverage; and there may be some prohibited things: perhaps no reimbursement for "experimental" treatments - treatments not yet tested to be worthy, such as with drugs under development.
But largely, NO medical procedures are mentioned at all.
SO: you have to interpret what COULD be covered. THIS is how pro-life people can read a bill and honestly say: "in all likelihood, this will aLLOW abortions," while Obama can honestly say: "abortion is not mandated in this bill."
Simultaneously, there is another way that health care reform coudl lead to MY tax dollars paying for abortion: the fed govt plans won't mandate abortion covreage, but it migfht mandate some Federally-mandated STATE plan to cover abortion. See? the federal govt requires it, but it is not federal money. So, Obama can honestly say "there will be no federal dollars used for abortion" and be telling the truth. Not the "whole" truth, but within his words nothing specifically dishonest. Did I rob the bank? No (I just helped plan the robbery, and I drove the get-away car).
ALSO: the bills keep changing. What was declared two months ago is now in the recycle bin. This has been a BIG challenge for those who keep trying to follow this cat-and-mouse game of find-the-abortion-support. One week it is here in this one bill, next week gone but in another bill. And worded differently.
This is why it has been a good idea for pro-life legislators to TRY to add wording declaring that abortion WILL NOT be funded in any way by these bills.
BUT at the same time that legislators are swearing NO abortion will be funded, they REFUSE to keep any of these no-abortion components IN any bill.
That makes ME very suspicious. But I am older, and remember Nixon. And Clinton, etc. I don't always trust what a politician promises me.
Finally: the abortion industry keeps advocating for health care reform. Why? Take a guess. But at this point, the cat-and-mouse game has gotten so challenging that lots of pro-choice groups are getting nervous that maybe there will not be abortion support - so they are getting nervous in this last week - and are trying to lean on Obama more to reassure them - but he can only get so official before the rest of us catch on, and see him wink reassuringly at the pro-choice groups.
So, there are very decent, supportable reasons why pro-life people are suspicious, and want FIRM writing to back up the cleverly worded promises. At the same time, this cat-and-mouse game gives pro-choice people the opportunity to label pro-life people as conspiracy theorists with no evidence.
This is about as brief as I can make a case for supporting the suspicion from pro-life ppl. It is not easy, since this legislative process is complicated, plus we have lying, deceptive characters in leadership positions in this nation. They do not want you to be informed. So they are trying totell you what to read and listen to, and what not to read and listen to. They are afraid that you will make up your own mind once you review all the info, and it won't be to their favor. - in a way, they have given you a great compliment: they can only fool you if they keep you ignorant. Therefore you must be smart.
Here are a couple sites to follow:Posted by: Row1 at October 23, 2009 11:30 AM
"some believe that fetuses' "rights" are more important than those actual persons without healthcare"
Or, some people believe that all human beings should be offered health care. Is a fetus not a human being?Posted by: EH at October 23, 2009 11:31 AM
There is no right to remove resources from others in order to provide for yourself. That is called stealing.
Interestingly, the leftists presuppose this right to remove resources from others, to provide for themselves, yet deny the human right to life .. to not be willfully killed by another human.
Unmentioned is the fact that this health care plan will not provide for most of the currently underinsured. In addition, it the authors presuppose that medical technology will have to be abandoned in order to provide equal coverage for those whom they deem worthy.
Due to cost containment....... if your mandatory H1N1 Influenza A vaccine causes Guillain Barre syndrome, Obama care has insufficient funds for the IVIG (very expensive treatment). Just one example.
Diabetics: ........ Kiss your future kidney dialysis goodbye.
Clotting disorder? you are ineligible for surgery...... factor 7 is HUGE bucks, and so are the others. FORGET it.
Kids with untoward prenatal diagnoses...... DEAD, mandatory abortion. Preemies needing the NICU? GONE. Fertility treatments will most often lead to this end, under Obama care.
Risperdal GONE, Zyprexa GONE, you lefties are in trouble...
Posted by: pharmer
at October 23, 2009 12:02 PM
Dear Mr. Kennedy:
You should be ashamed of yourself. Read the Catechism if you claim Catholicism as your religion. The Catholic Church is against ABORTION, EUTHANASIA and ASSISTED SUICIDE. None of these are LIFE SAVING health care. Heart surgeries, c-sections, etc ARE. If the health care bill did not FORCE Americans to PAY for ABORTIONS and did not RATION health care for seniors,etc, then it would more than likely be supported by the Catholic Church.
Posted by: LizFromNebraska
at October 23, 2009 12:25 PM
Just the kind of gibberish I have come to expect from the men of the Kennedy family.
I think the Democrat health care plan has a lot of problems. As to the pro-life issue, the Democrat leadership could, as other commentators have already noted, pass a specific amendment that would clearly prohibit any abortion related
procedures. But they will not pass such an amendment because they are in the pro-abortion camp.
Thanks, guys. :)
I'll look into your websites when I get back (I have to pack- going on a weekend trip to Santa Fe). I didn't mean to sound skeptical- I was really unsure of what to look for when it looking at abortion in the health bill other than that. I'll look at it and think about it. Thanks! :)
Anyways, I personally support universal health care, but only so long as it doesn't cover things like abortion or unnecessary plastic surgery (I don't mind any of my tax dollars, for example, paying for someone who's been severely burned) or something or jam things up too much. But that could just be me.
I do wish that they would slow this down a little, though...
Any hoodle, thanks again. :)Posted by: Vannah at October 23, 2009 1:51 PM
Looks like Kennedy's bishop has about had enough of this CINO. He made a statement via LifeNews.com
I caught it on Gateway Pundit.
I think a little spanking is in order...Posted by: carder at October 23, 2009 4:14 PM
I think all these little silver-spoon political brats need to spend a whole summer volunteering to work inside an abortion mill helping to examine POCs (products of conception), and listening to the weeping & moaning of the women during & after their abortions. They need to be shown the link between the abortion industry and kiddie porn & white slave trafficking. Maybe then they would understand human rights issues.Posted by: MEL at October 23, 2009 5:15 PM
:that right now we have 50 million people who are uninsured" says Kennedy.
Funny how liberals keep changing the number. I've heard 30 million, 40 million, now its 50 million. Is 60 million next?
And what they conveniently miss saying is that no matter what the number, many of them are illegals.
I'm so sick of liberals claiming that without health care reform people are going to die.Posted by: Joanne at October 23, 2009 5:30 PM
And undocumented people are NOT going without healthcare. www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjPBtfpn8wIPosted by: klynn73 at October 23, 2009 6:39 PM
Joanne, actually the number went in reverse. The liberals were killing the working people by convincing them that 47 million had NO access to health care. So these people who are uninsured don't seek the available help when they need it.
As of this summer, Obama magically erased 17 million underinsured, with his new statistic of 30 million uninsured.
Wonder how he killed off those 17 million....... ;-)Posted by: pharmer at October 23, 2009 7:52 PM
Posted by: carder at October 23, 2009 4:14 PM
"Looks like Kennedy's bishop has about had enough of this CINO. He made a statement via LifeNews.com"
Kudos to The Most Rev. Thomas J. Tobin, the bishop of the Catholic Diocese of Providence for taking swift action.
Posted by: Janet
at October 23, 2009 11:11 PM
re: Kennedy & Catholic...
You can call yourself a piranah, but that doesn't make you a fish.Posted by: Linda at October 24, 2009 10:29 AM
A baby is killed in every abortion - that has nothing to do with religion - it is plain and simple fact - how many children has this man lost to abortion? We don't know...Posted by: Lee at October 24, 2009 1:11 PM
Vannah, If you are still checking this post....
NRLC has some good documentation on how public funds will be used for paying for abortion.
This paper explains why the funds used for a public option and funds used to subsidize private plans would be considered "public" not "private:"
And here is another that explains abortion in the healthcare plans:
No health care bill is acceptable unless it contains language excluding abortion and taxpayer funding of abortion.
If the Supreme Court can contrive a right to abortion from a right to privacy, it's certainly no stretch to assume that if abortion isn't specifically excluded, it's "in there."Posted by: Dave at October 26, 2009 10:50 PM
Patrick Kennedy should be excommunicated.Posted by: jim at October 31, 2009 12:56 PM