OT, but while working for the Clinton whitehouse, Kagan essentially rewrote the ACOG's statement on partial birth abortion.

The original statement said that there was no medical reason for the procedure, and she altered to say that there "may" be reasons where it is necessary.

Based on this altered document, the SC overturned Nebraska's partial birth abortion law.

So we've learned two things today. Kagan is a monster, and the ACOG is a fraud.

The truth is, 99% of abortions are committed on healthy babies and healthy mothers. It is highly unlikely to become pregnant from a rape.

As a rape survivor, I resent that the pro-abortion community feels the need to use rape to defend their indefensible position.

These are hard cases....and they do exist. But this is not what abortion "rights" are all about. And if women and young girls are being raped and are victims of incest, then what are the pro-aborts doing to stop this? Are they trying to protect these girls? No, they just want to make sure abortion "rights" are secure.

Planned Parenthood is guilty of perpetuating incest and rape by not only aborting the babies, but NOT REPORTING these incidents.

WOW, Lauren!! Where did you get this info?? That is incredibly sinister stuff.

On topic, that Emily video is great.

hotair.com/archives/2010/06/29/kagans-scotus-deception-to-defend-partial-birth-abortions/

Here's a link to Hotair's story on it.

The "Emily" video...wow..powerful stuff!

Rossi:
"I've always believed that abortion was never intended except for maybe cases of rape, incest or to protect the life of the mother."

EXCEPT FOR MAYBE (?)

Jill, I agree with you, this is a weasly position and it's irresponsible to allow the ridding of the evidence of incest.

But how do we encourage these rape victims to be candid about their situation and tell the authorities before they go for an abortion? If the won't, the abortionists can just claim that they didn't know about the rape.

I love the "Emily" video. I think it's very powerful and speaks volumes.

I too agree with Jill, but maybe from a little different position. I have been there. I had an abortion after a rape, and it did anything but "fix" the problem. It magnified the utter guilt and shame I felt at the time. Not only was I dealing with the trauma of what I had just been through, but now that was compounded by the overwhelming horror that I had just killed my baby. I can't speak for how most people cope with these kinds of situations, but I know for me personally, healing from the abortion was harder for me that healing from the rape itself. I think because I came to realize the rape I had no control over, while the abortion I did. I could've saved my child's life, but I didn't. I am, however, so grateful for God's healing power and His merciful grace. It is in Him that I live and breathe and find myself.

No matter what, abortion is NEVER the right answer!

More pro-life language - be mindful when a politician or lawmaker refers to abortion as an issue, as if we're debating what color the county fire engines should be.

And abortion isn't a tragedy. A child dying of cancer or a car accident is a tragedy. When a child dies of abortion, that's wicked.

tnnurse4life,

Thank you for your courageous witness. Rebecca Kiessling was conceived in rape, and has a website for those who were conceived in rape, or conceived as a result of themselves having been raped. Some whose stories are posted there followed the course that you did, and report the same result.

http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/

My prayers for your continued healing and strengthening.

For legislators who propose legalizing abortion for cases of rape and incest, I have one question that goes to the issue of precedent:

In what system of jurisprudence anywhere in the world do we execute the child because of its father's crimes?

Paul Akers is 100% pro-life
http://www.akersforussenate.com/

Thank you, Jill, for honoring the rape/incest conceived by giving this subject another day in the spotlight.

Kudos and much gratitude to the Washington Life Coalition also. Go get 'em! It would be great to start a national campaign. There are many "pro-life" elected officials and candidates like this.

Cranky Catholic - calling abortion an "issue" has always been one of my pet peeves also. This is not global warming or deciding the best day to begin daylight savings time. This is life itself.

tnnurse4life - it is wonderful you have found healing. Along with the link to Rebecca, I recommend this video also:
http://www.facinglife.tv/episode/season_3/episode_8/episode_308.html
(I think Rebecca has this episode linked on her web site also.)
God bless you

Thank you Tnnurse4life, for sharing your personal story with us. I've been involved with the team that launched the Washington Life Coalition and "Little Emily" video. Your perspective on the topic is moving and powerful, God bless you.

And thank you Jill, for your words.

tnnurse4life,
Thank you so much for your powerful witness and sharing your story!!
I had an abortion almost 20 years and know what you know as well.

So glad you commented today.
God bless you!!

Everything about this irritates me. The voice is extremely annoying. If they wanted to be accurate, they'd show a fetus that is "about to die." And what really bothers me is that most children conceived through abuse--or other terrible situations where people are more sympathetic to abortion--aren't cute little white girls whose moms would buy them pink bedding and take to upscale parks if only they didn't abort. They might do better to show a kid in a squalid trailer park. Or a black baby, since black women are raped at a much higher rate. Or a kid with severe mental deficiencies from infant neglect.

Not that those children are any less valuable, or have any less right to live. But this group is just manipulating people. I'm sure the right-wing voters who eat this stuff up imagine that tons of cute, healthy white babies are being aborted. They'd never show them the typical kid conceived or raised in abusive situations.

$10 says if they showed a black kid in a filthy crack den and said "This is little DeShawn. He's going to die tomorrow," they'd get a fraction of the sympathy.

And I doubt Emily the fetus knows she wants to slide on a slide or run across the grass. Who knows? Maybe Emily the fetus will have fetal alcohol syndrome or grow up to be a prostitute. BE REALISTIC ABOUT KIDS CONCEIVED IN ABUSE. Then we wonder why people demand we stop abortion, then are baffled that the kids most in need of adoption aren't healthy white infants.

http://ashleyherzog.blogspot.com/2010/06/worst-anti-abortion-ad-ever.html

Here's hoping pro-life common sense will prevail when Rossi takes on Patty Murray in November. While Rossi may oppose 99% of all abortions, Murray suports 100% of abortions and paid for with our tax dollars. She's pro-abrotion with no exceptions and she will keep abortion advocates controlling the Senate.

So, in November, anything other than a vote for Rossi is a vote for abortion.

Not that those children are any less valuable, or have any less right to live.

Really? Because it sounds like that *is* what you're saying. Looking into your crystal ball and determining a child's possible future quality of life does not determine whether one should have the right to live.

They'd never show them the typical kid conceived or raised in abusive situations.

What exactly IS the "typical kid" raised in an abusive situation? There are plenty of us white kids who grew up with little to nothing and were subjected to significant amounts of abuse, thanks.

$10 says if they showed a black kid in a filthy crack den and said "This is little DeShawn. He's going to die tomorrow," they'd get a fraction of the sympathy.
Posted by: Ashley Herzog at June 30, 2010 8:11 AM

So, you're saying that most kids conceived in rape are kids who grow up in crack dens? Most kids who are aborted are to moms who are addicts?

More than $10 says that if anyone made an ad like that, Sharpton and Jackson would be screaming "racism" like nobody's business.

I guess we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, huh?

"So, you're saying that most kids conceived in rape are kids who grow up in crack dens? Most kids who are aborted are to moms who are addicts?"

Yes. Right-to-life groups must think their target audience is racist, since they never show the typical kid actually conceived through abuse. You can check out my blog for more.

So most of the black moms who abort are addicts, Ashley?

Why is it that your view of the black community is that most of the black women living in poverty are also crackheads?

BTW, your blog doesn't have links to any statistical studies for the claims you make. You might want to add those. You know, the ones that say all the black women who abort or who live in poverty are crackheads.

Ashley,

If we should abort kids conceived in rape because of the type of person they may become, then the extension of that logic would imperil an awful lot of pro-aborts' babies as well.

We do not execute children because of their parent's crimes. Nor do we execute babies because of the possibility or probability that their lives may not measure up to our upper-middle class white standard of living. You look and sound monstrous when you speak this way.

I worked with street kids in Times Square NY for seven years in the 1980's, most of whom were prostitutes. Most of whom were sexually abused at home. On the overnight shifts, they would often come into our office when they couldn't sleep and talk about their hopes and dreams, their fears and failures. They had their own network of friendships on the street and looked after one another's children. Visited one another in the hospital.

They were some of the most alive people I've ever known, and for all of the hellishness of their young lives I saw more authentic compassion and humanity in those young prostitutes than I've ever seen in your cold and lifeless apologias for snuffing out the unborn.

Even the whores saw more hope in their lives through the embrace of their pregnancies than you do. It takes quite a bit to be shown up as a person by teen prostitutes, but you've worked hard at earning that honor. Enjoy it.

I never said all black women who abort are addicts. Just that a lot of kids conceived in rape don't have white middle-class mothers who shop at Pottery Barn, as the imaginary "Little Emily" does.

Go find your own stats, I'm not looking it up for you. Just look at the images in the ad. Washington Right to Life must think this is what their audience needs to see in order to be sympathetic.

I know it's a conservative tactic to pretend to be really, really concerned about racism when you're actually not. You're probably the same type of person who likes Rush Limbaugh and thought his jokes about how ghetto kids should go "dumpster diving" for food were funny. (Tweet to me from "Right Ohio": "Rush Limbaugh is funny. Your not."

Ashley, YOU are the one who told me to "check out" your blog for more. More what? More facts? Nope. I expected to see some statistical data. Guess I expected too much.

I'm not getting the Pottery Barn reference, Ashley. Is there some sort of Pottery Barn ad in the video that I missed?

More stereotyping about us nasty white pro-lifers, Ashley? Frankly, I didn't see any racism in the ad. But then, I suppose that's because I'm a white racist? LOL ;)

I listen to Rush Limbaugh sometimes, but most of the time, I'm busy working on the site and busy with my 3 kids. I never heard any of the jokes you mentioned. I don't have a Twitter account, and my name's not "Right Ohio."

Keep going with the stereotypes, too. It's proving my point.

Gerard, great post, as always. :)

Except if you actually read my post, Gerard, you'd see I never said they should be aborted. You clearly didn't.

No, no, they shouldn't be aborted, but they'll all live in squalor as future crackheads and rapists with no hope of ever rising out of poverty. That's basically what you've said. And that the video makers are racist because they don't show that.

And they're the racists??

I don't give a [deleted by mod] about political correctness for the most part. But yes, they're trying to pander to a certain audience by implying healthy and adorable white children with middle-class moms are the ones being conceived in rape. They're usually not, since 1/3 of rape victims are black women, and victims of long-term sexual abuse are overwhelmingly poor and disproportionately black.

It's always fun to watch conservatives exploit black people and pretend to be so concerned with racial disparities when it benefits them, though. They'll throw a fake hissy fit over 1/3 of all aborted babies being black, but then demand we be color-blind when it comes to things like jobs and college admissions. Well, which is it? Are you concerned about racial inequality? or only when we're discussing black fetuses?

Ashley,

Your entire history of argumentation here undergirds what you have suggested. However, to clarify the issue I ask a very simple few questions:

1. Do you believe that a baby conceived in rape ought to be aborted because of the father's identity and the circumstances surrounding the conception? (I don't want a dodge that it's up to the woman. I'm after what YOU think.)

2. Do you believe that children conceived in rape are more likely to live lives of squalor or deprivation than those whose conceptions were unplanned?

3. Do you believe that the life of the child conceived in rape has less intrinsic value than any other human?

4. If you believe women ought to have the right to abort a child conceived in rape or incest, why do you believe that?

5. In light of question #4, go to Rebecca Kiessling's site linked above, read these people's stories, and square them with your own beliefs.

Your dogged refusal to actually read my post before spouting off at the mouth is infuriating. Here, I'll do it for you!

My thoughts on the worth of underprivileged kids (who, let's face it, are usually minorities):

"I suspect that if they showed a black kid in a filthy crack den and said, "This is little DeShawn. He's going to die tomorrow," they'd get a fraction of the sympathy.

Not that hypothetical DeShawn is any less valuable than hypothetical Emily. He's not. All children are precious, and all deserve to be cared for."

Then, my problem with the ad:

"But the fact that they chose "little Emily" to portray a child conceived in rape speaks volumes. The Washington Life Coalition knows its target audience a little too well. Just like they believe that the typical women having abortions are middle-class sorority girls and feminist professors, they seem to imagine that tons of cute, healthy white babies are being conceived in abuse and then aborted.

Then we wonder why people demand we stop abortion, but are baffled that the kids most in need of adoption aren't adorable white infants. Meanwhile, abused, neglected, and abandoned children--many of them actually conceived in abuse--languish in foster care."

[Edited by mod for profanity]

Ashley,

I see your potty mouth is still working overtime and you still avoid answering direct questions.

How are your counseling sessions going?

Peace.

Ashley,

Curse and swear all you want, but you are as ignorant of epidemiology as you are cold and bloodless about abortion.

By what I can see of your background, you have precious little if any experience in dealing with the poor in any substantial manner. I read your posts. I read them all in hopes that I might catch some glimmer of hope for your growth as a human being.

You manifest all of the ignorance of typical upper-middle class college kids who know nothing about the world. That is most evident by your identification of blacks with crack dens, of blacks with poverty.

Did you know that far more whites are born into poverty than blacks? Did you know that far more whites have substance abuse problems and frequent crack dens and heroin shooting galleries than blacks? Were you aware that far more black babies are aborted than whites, and that many don't get placed with non-black families out of cultural concerns for the child's identity?

Underprivileged kids are NOT usually minorities, though that appearance is understandable because poor whites are usually dispersed across vast rural areas and not concentrated in the inner-city.

As for you white, sorority girl supposition that black kids don't get as much sympathy as white kids, Covenant House was built and expanded into a world-wide child care agency who made no secret of the fact that upward of 80% of its residents were minority children, and has received billions of dollars since its founding in 1968, largely from white Christians. The same for many other charities.

I could go on and on, but I think the point is well made.

I realize that growing a human heart takes time, but I expect better on the facts, and less racial stereotyping from a college grad.

BTW, nice attempt at dodging my questions. Don't bother answering them Ashley. We know where you stand.

And pretending black kids are better off than white kids is borderline delusional and dare I say racist?

http://www.nccp.org/publications/pub_843.html

"* 34% of black children live in poor families. In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among black children range from 28% in California to 48% in Ohio.

* 10% of white children live in poor families. Across the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among white children do not vary dramatically; the range is 8% to 11%."

As for rape rates among races:

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=26368

Black women are about 1/3 of all rape victims.

If you put two and two together, showing a middle-class white girl with nice clothes and perfectly coordinated pink bedding as the typical child "conceived in rape" is wildly inaccurate. And that's probably for a reason, since conservatives obsess over the idea that white middle-class women are aborting babies that they value. They don't value the poor, black and minority kids so much.

[Edited by mod for profanity]

"Underprivileged kids are NOT usually minorities"

Yeah, maybe if you're looking at absolute numbers instead of percentages. A higher NUMBER of white kids might be in poverty...because whites still make up 75% of the population. But if you look at the percentage of white vs. black kids in poverty--you know, the honest way to do it--the numbers are radically different.

Nice try at playing the "whites are the victims!" card, though.

Ashley, please refrain from using profanity in your posts, or you risk being banned. Thanks very much!

Ashley,part of the problem of holding your opponent in contempt is that you skew your own arguments, thinking your opponent too stupid and beneath you. Thus it is on this post.

First, your profanity-laced tirades make you seem quite unhinged and not sure of your footing. It's ugly and unseemly.

As for your thin line of argumentation, how convenient to include the ten most populous states regarding blacks, since that's where most blacks in poverty may be found, while ignoring the 40 other states where the most whites in poverty can be found.

Then of course you shift another parameter of your argument by arguing percentages when you get called on absolute numbers.

Amazingly, nobody on the pro-life side ever brought up the percentages argument. YOU DID. It's your straw man so enjoy dancing with him. We value ALL life.

You're stupid if you can't acknowledge that poverty is a much bigger problem among blacks than whites.

Pull up one study saying whites, as a percentage of populaion, suffer more poverty in the US.

Ashley,

All life is sacred, even those conceived in rape.

The statistics you cite are a smokescreen and straw man. Enjoy them both, but no human should ever be butchered in its mother's womb.

And stop acting like a snotty, petulant child with the name-calling.

"All life is sacred, even those conceived in rape...no human should ever be butchered in its mother's womb."

I never once said otherwise. But I guess your status as a white dude with a Ph. D means you don't have to actually read anything I said before commenting on it.

"As most people who read my stuff know, I support legal abortion, but have a lot of pro-life sympathies." Opening sentence written by Ashley Herzog on her site on Wednesday, June 30, 2010

"I never once said otherwise." Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 1, 2010 3:25 AM

Ashley, it is clear that you have stated otherwise. You support legal abortion therefore you support humans getting butchered in their mother's womb. You cannot be opposed to abortion but still support it's legalization.

I believe you are so bent out of shape about this video because your perception of "Emily" as a little cute healthy white girl whos middle-class former-sorority member Mom bought her the pink bedding from Pottery Barn Kids and takes her to upscale parks hits a bit too close to home for you to remain in your comfort zone.

I'd say this video hits upon a target crowd -- those who'd rather dwell on anyone else's actions but their own.

Um, this is not an issue of "hitting too close to home," since I wasn't raped.

It's common for conservs to post pictures of white upper-class feminist bloggers, like Jessica Valenti and Amanda Marcotte, and speculate about how many abortions they've had. In reality, the answer is probably zero. (I know Marcotte says she has never had an abortion.) They aren't the typical women who get them, and they certainly aren't the typical women getting pregnant through sexual abuse.

Um no, it doesn't hit "close to home" at all, since I wasn't raped.

I know conservs love to post pictures of white, upper-class feminist bloggers like Jessica Valenti and Amanda Marcotte and speculate about how many abortions they've had. In reality, the answer is probably zero. (I know Marcotte says she has never had one.) They aren't the typical women having abortions, and they're definitely not the typical women suffering long-term abuse.

Right-wingers seem to have a very distorted view of what kind of children are most in need of adoption.

""All life is sacred, even those conceived in rape...no human should ever be butchered in its mother's womb."

"I never once said otherwise. But I guess your status as a white dude with a Ph. D means you don't have to actually read anything I said before commenting on it."

Ashley,

Long before I ever went to graduate school, I was taught to read by the Sister's of St. Joseph in grammar school and taught critical reading by the Christian Brothers in high school.

Armed only with those skills I have read REPEATEDLY your pro-abort sympathies. You would like to have pro-life sympathies, but hold consistently for the legalization of abortion. I don't need a Ph.D. to follow your line of thinking, and as I said; I read everything that you write.

You can't be pro-Roe and claim to be partially pro-life. All that you are doing with your "pro-life sympathies" is trying to assuage your guilty conscience. However, in the 24 hours since we've been having at it, another 4,000 babies were murdered by rogue doctors, most of whom lied to the mothers about the human identity and developmental status of their little ones.

Those babies, and those to follow deserve more than your mealy-mouthed duplicitousness. They require bright, articulate young women such as yourself to stand up and roar on their behalf. So do the mothers such as Carla who are daily in the thousands lied to by doctors and coerced by boyfriends and family into actions which tear at them for the rest of their lives.

The terrible tragedy in reading your posts is the realization of how your great potential is being wasted on an ambivalence that ultimately supports the legality of this national nightmare which has claimed over 52 million lives and left an unimaginable wake of destroyed men and women behind it as it sails on.

Um, this is not an issue of "hitting too close to home," since I wasn't raped. Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 1, 2010 10:15 AM

"What really bothers me is that the Washington Life Coalition seems to think the average kid conceived in an abusive situation is a cute little white girl." Wednesday, June 30, 2010 @ Herzogian

You used the words 'abusive situation' instead of 'rape' yourself when talking about this video Ashley. Although you may not have been raped, you have repeatedly stated that you were in an abusive situation when you became pregnant. I stand by my beliefs that this video hits close to home for you. (The man in the handcuffs represented all abusive men to me, not just abusive men who rape).

It's what you choose to do with your reality that can make a positive difference in your life as well as in the lives of those you will come into contact with now and in the future.

Peace.

That's true, my ex-boyfriend has been in handcuffs. Several times.

But I honestly didn't think of that when I watched it.

Ashley-- are you pro-life or not?

Oh, and white women do get raped and get pregnant. And not all white conservatives are racist. I am white and was raped. I am white and had a teen pregnancy. I am white and am in interracial marriage and have 4 non-white kids. Can we please stop with the racist comments and focus on the substance of this ad? This child will never get to experience life because of the sin of her father. That is the point--the child is innocent and doesn't deserve to die.

"This child will never get to experience life because of the sin of her father."

Posted by: Allie at July 1, 2010 4:56 PM

This sentence should be hitting a bit closer yet eh Ashley?

Thank you Jill for defending preborn children conceived in rape and incest. Too many prolife leaders and groups are willing to allow innocent children to be punished for the sins of their fathers, contrary to Deuteronomy 24:16. We need to end abortion and protect all innocent human life. http://www.PersonhoodFL.com