I'm pro-choice.

Forcing anybody to carry or abort a pregnancy is wrong.
A women's choice is nobody else's business.

...if she was under 18, I would have said, yeah, it sort of in a way is a family matter, but if she was 19...that's completely messed up.

I would imprison the parents for a long time, if it were up to me.

Violence within families is just unacceptable as violence outside of families, if not more. The "family matter" excuse is the reason so many cases of child abuse and domestic violence are covered up- people don't wan't to interfere in "family matters".

Jill, I agree. Where the outrage from the feminists?

Carrie- it's because the lines of legal adulthood are so weirdly defined. If she was indeed 19, there is no way that this should be so lightly dealt with. If she was underage, there is that blurry line between a parent's right to deal with their children and the child's inherent human rights. It's a big pain in the butt for attorneys.

"Moreso, where are feminists? These parents wanted to forcibly deny their daughter her freedom of choice."

See, it's not just about "choice" for the feminuts, they actually like abortion, I'll bet they don't even mind newborn baby killin...you'll notice they never speak out when newborns are killed by their parents, this is "choice" to them too.

Shut up Jasper. Most feminists hate it when newborns are killed by their parents.

I think these parents are terrible people and should be locked up. It's disgusting that they only got "counselling". That's complete mule fritters.

Per Erin:
"...if she was under 18, I would have said, yeah, it sort of in a way is a family matter, but if she was 19...that's completely messed up."

Erin,
What are you thinking?? I don't care if this girl was underage, overage or whatever age. These "parents" kidnapped their daugter and planned to duct tape her mouth shut and tie her up and drag her to an abortion mill. That's abuse and they should be prosecuted for felony kidnapping. Instead they get a slap on the writst. It's purely digusting. Please expain your position!!!

Would you have said the same thing if abortion was not involved??

Great questions Jill. I also want to know where are the black leaders. This is cleary a racial issue. Where are the feminists???

Erin, her parents had no right to do that to her for any reason no matter what the age. Even if she was 14, they did not have the right to bind her hands and her feet. They also tackled her to the ground. Like I said before, violence within families is just as bad as violence outside of families. Parents are supposed to protect their children, not abuse them. When someone is assaulted or abused, it is no longer just a family matter, it is a criminal matter.

Oh come on everyone....this isn't any different than "honor killing" in Muslim cultures. We need to respect the diversity of other cultures and narrowminded-hillbilly-redneck-racial-purity is a legitimate culture too. This was nothing more than a twenty-first century shotgun wedding. I really don't understand what all the excitement is about...I mean, honor killings usually only result in a slap on the wrist if anything, right? We just all need to quit being so uptight and be a little more open minded...you know, like until our brains fall out.

Isn't it lovely to see our young women sacraficed on the alter of the religion of "choice".

I wonder what would have happened had Katelyn not escaped but was dragged (maybe even while still bound and gagged) into an abortion mill? Would staff have in some way "colluded" with the "parents" the way abortion clinics are "colluding" with parents who bring in young girls impregnated by older men in what is likely statutory rape or incest situations?
I agree with Jill, this was a race question involving abortion - so everybody shut-up and put-up.

"Shut up Jasper."

LOL!! ..Hi Rae! it's nice to hear from you again...

Ok, first of all, I'm PC. Most of you know that. Second of all, I AM outraged at what these parents did. They specifically went against their daughter's wishes to continue her pregnancy. They should be locked up for the emotional trauma and abuse they put her through, what with the kidnapping and trying to force a medical procedure on her. Counseling is bullsh*t.

And Jasper, I can't believe you were made a moderator, because most of the stuff that comes out of your mouth is so sarcasm-laced and vitriolic that one wonders what went through Jill's mind when she appointed you. Plus, calling feminists "feminuts" and "liking newborn baby-killin" is uncalled for. I have a real question for you..are you against feminists for life, like PIP?

"are you against feminists for life, like PIP?"

Is PIP against feminists for life? I thought she supported them. I could be wrong.

"I have a real question for you..are you against feminists for life, like PIP?"

No, I like them. I'm refering to the feminazis or feminuts, you know, the nutty feminists, the crazies who would like to get testicle implants.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/feminists_joke_about_roasting_babies.html

No, I like them. I'm refering to the feminazis or feminuts, you know, the nutty feminists, the crazies who would like to get testicle implants.

I laughed at that. I admit it. Now I hang my head in shame.

Erin,

you wrote,

"..if she was under 18, I would have said, yeah, it sort of in a way is a family matter, but if she was 19...that's completely messed up."

Posted by: Erin at October 10, 2007 2:54 PM

It is wrong to tie someone up and force something on them.

I wouldn't treat my two year old that way.

When my son was two he needed minor surgery and we treated him gently. When he was 8 he needed another minor surgery and again he was treated with respect. We didn't tie him up and force him.

here you have parents (if you listen to the interview with the daughter) were willing to kill the baby once it was born. Yet, no feminists are speaking up, they only speak up when mothers want to terminate the babies, not when they want to preserve their lives.

Yet, no feminists are speaking up,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why should feminists speak up? What the hell does this have to do with feminism? Two fruit loops committed a crime, and they've been sentenced.

When Andrea Yates and Deanna Laney killed their kids because "God told them to," was it a matter that reflected on ALL Christians or ALL Texans, or just the two fruitloops who committed the crimes?

Would it still be a "family matter" if the girl was 13 and pregnant from her father or step father? These cover ups are going on in US abortion clinics all the time, and the AB clinics cover the tracks for the predators. Maybe that's why the feminists didn't have much to say.

The father of the baby is a) an illegal immigrant who b) is being held for receiving stolen property.

This might have nothing to do with race.

These cover ups are going on in US abortion clinics all the time, and the AB clinics cover the tracks for the predators.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Charges? Convictions?

Sorry, Bobby, I should have made that clearer. PIP IS a feminist for life, and I asked if Jasper was against people like her.

And I thought Jasper was lumping all feminists together...considering no one here was talking about REAL feminists that are outraged about this. He's right, people that aren't angry about this ARE "nuts", but don't deserve the prefix "femi" in front of it. Someone who isn't up in arms over this is NOT a feminist or femi-anything in any way, shape, or form.

Ah, okay, I see.

I couldn't help but notice that the girl was targeted at the end of the news clip for 2 small crimes. Was that meant to shift focus? Don't you suppose this was a learned behavior? Now mom and dad are free. I guess kidnapping is taken lightly these days.

Laura, you didn't know blogger, Amanda, she worked at PP. She told us that, that information is part of HIPAA, and that it doesn't have to be released.

I couldn't help but notice that the girl was targeted at the end of the news clip for 2 small crimes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

According to no less than FAUX News, not only does the daughter have a criminal history, but she's been involuntarily locked up for 72-hour psychiatric observations TWICE!
I wonder if 90% of her story didn't pan out.

I wonder if her goofy parents had anything to do with her behavior.

Laura, the police found duct tape,rope, and a rifle in the parents' car. Their own lawyer said it was like a "nuclear explosion" going off in the family. There seems to be some independent verifaction of the crime. Even if she has mental issues, the parents still had no right to treat her as they did. Even if she has a criminal background, the parents still had no right to treat her as they did.

Lyssie, 4:57p, said: "And Jasper, I can't believe you were made a moderator, because most of the stuff that comes out of your mouth is so sarcasm-laced and vitriolic that one wonders what went through Jill's mind when she appointed you."

You know, next to "misogynist," my favorite liberal word is "vitriolic." You all love that word. I think it's another one of those that makes you feel smart.

But that was an aside.

You know, I also often wonder what goes through my mind, but when it comes to jasper it's always fondness.

What if the reverse had happened? What if the mom and dad had told the girl, "You aren't having an abortion", and she put a gun to their heads, stole the car, and had the abortion anyway? The feminists would sure be in support of her then.

*should read verification*. I think the smell of the spinach mushroom lasagne baking in my oven is distracting me.

Even if she has mental issues, the parents still had no right to treat her as they did. Even if she has a criminal background, the parents still had no right to treat her as they did.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the story happened like the daughter said it did, there's NO WAY the parents wouldn't have been charged with three violent felonies. Sounds like it may have all been BS.
(According to an aunt, the "victim" stayed with her parents for a couple of months after the kid was born. She's now claiming that they wanted to kill her baby? Sumthin' aint riiiiiiight...)

Jill:

Well, next time I'll use the word "caustic", "abrasive", or "spiteful". Personally, I didn't know words could be "liberal". But then again, with a pitiful IQ of around 160, I didn't know I needed to "feel" smart, either.

You know, next to "abortionist", my favorite "conservative" "word" is "Holocaust". You all love that word. I think it's another one of those that makes you feel smart.

And I'm glad you're fond of Jasper. Someone's gotta be.

jasper, I'm fond of you too!

Who's a cantankerous old bat? Eh, you sound like one to me.

Laura, you've got a point. My feeling is that it seems as if violence within families is dealt with less harshly. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if they did do this and still got off with a slap on the wrist.

Somg, stop fooling around.

Oh, and heather? If you want Jill's dick so bad, get off your knees and flaunt a little T & A. You're like the queen bitch of lapdogs!

Silly people with nothing better to do than bitch on the internet.

Posted by: F the CC at October 10, 2007 6:39 PM******************** What are you doing bitching on the internet?

Lol, Heather!

Oh please. Where are the feminists? Where have you been? This story has been in the news off and on since September of last year, and this is your first post? Pot, meet kettle.

By the way, most feminists, like me for instance, are pro-choice. Meaning that I am in favor of a woman making up her own mind about what's best for her, whether that is abortion or whether that is carrying a pregnancy to term.

Carol, is kidnapping an acceptable pro choice thing to do?

Heather, obviously not.

Okay, have a grret evening! *waves goodbye* *blows a kiss*

oops, meant great! Carrie, lol!

Oh, and by the by, I've read SoMG's posts. There is a guy I'd love to party with! Send him my way. I'll by him a shot or two.

Carol, is kidnapping an acceptable pro choice thing to do?

Posted by: heather at October 10, 2007 6:48 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No, no one has ever suggested that kidnaping was an acceptable pro-life practice, either.

You sound perfect for him. I would be happy to. You heard about this site from a friend? So, are your friends here bitching too?

Carol, this post is about parents who attempted to MAKE this woman's choice for her. What are your thoughts on what they did to her? Why aren't they going to jail?

Now WHERE HAVE I heard that name, Kampf, before?

Oh, yes; MEIN KAMPF, the title of a book of self-justification written by that arch-racist-killer, Adolf Hitler. He certainly wasn't averse to doing whatever it took to rid the earth of certain "dysgenic" types and, if he were alive today, he would certainly have sided with these Kampfs, and both the son and the daughter would be dead.

I think that means, "My Struggle"; how ironic; seems that had this brave young mother not put up a considerable struggle of her own, she and her baby could both very well be dead now.

The questions as to where the NAACP and NOW, etc., outrage over this are legitimate ones.

As for the NAACP, etc., they are all pro-abortion. Shortly after the death of Rosa Parks, someone e-mailed me a note telling me that she had been on the advocacy board of Planned Parenthood for years until her death. I checked PP's website to see what they had to say about their dear, departed dupe -er, comrade- and found that she had, in fact, been on that board. One can only wonder how many innocent little black children were crushed to death beneath the wheels of her (in)famous "bus to freedom" when it took that wrong turn. At the rate of 1,452 a day, millions would be a conservative estimate. Just recently, Dr. Alveda King (MLKjr's niece) was banned from speaking at a NAACP convention because of her radical notion that unborn black babies are people, too, and should be protected from the likes of Planned Parenthood. So it would seem that Ismael Hernandez' observation, "The civil rights elite has forgotten the lives of unborn black children and has joined those who choose to kill them. They have forgotten that IN THE PAST RACISTS SNATCHED BLACK BABIES FROM THEIR MOTHER’S ARMS AND SOLD THEM INTO SLAVERY. TODAY, THEY SNATCH THEM FROM THEIR MOTHER’S WOMB AND THROW THEM IN THE GARBAGE.”, was right on the bloodmoney.

Wake up, folks! ABORTION IS A BARBARIC WRONG, NOT A CIVIL RIGHT and the sooner we get those two unconfused, the more civil, just, legitimately free a society we will have...should that sort of thing be of interest to you. It wasn't to Hitler, but it certainly had an appeal to his millions of victims.

Yes, I agree that it is entirely reasonable to expect groups such as NOW, NARAL, the Feminist Majority, who claim so stridently to be the leading champions of women's rights and interests, to speak out against this. But it isn't terribly surprising that they aren't. The leading "feminist" groups were, for the most part, strangely silent when Michael Schiavo enjoined other MEN to enable him to legally torture Terri to death. I was outside the hospice as she was dying, praying, and protesting, and there were a handful of women who called themselves pro-"choice" feminists there in opposition to Terri's murder, but most of that crowd were calling for her blood just as loudly as they call for the innocent blood of unborn children to be shed in abortion chambers. NOW, NARAL, et al, don't care a thing about women, or they would not support induced abortion.

Another bitter irony is that two men, Dr. Bernard Nathanson and Larry Lader, sold NOW on "abortion rights" to begin with. The pitch was that in order to have workplace equality with men, they had to submit to castration of their natural womanly capacity to bear children. Another bitter irony; Believing, as they claim, that

"Man will swear and man will storm--
Man is not at all good form--
Man is of no kind of use--
Man's a donkey -- Man's a goose--
Man is coarse and Man is plain--
Man is more or less insane--
Man's a ribald -- Man's a rake,
Man is Nature's sole mistake!"
(Gilbert & Sullivan, Princess Ida, or Castle Adamant)...that they demand equality to such an inferior, chauvinistic, abusive brute. Very strange, and more than a little disturbing.

Many in the NOW culture have been sexually abused by men, often related to them, at a young age (not that any age is appropriate), and the younger the molestation and the closer the perpetrator, the more profoundly this experience will influence how the victim will view men; however, it is rightly said that the more you cling to rancor and allow the abuse to affect you, the more power you give the perpetrator over your life, and ultimately, align yourself with him. Hence the wisdom of founding feminist Elizabeth Cady Stanton's statement, "When we consider that women are treated as property, it is degrading to us that we should treat our children as property, to dispose of as we see fit.", which is certainly how the Kampfs have treated their daughter and grandson in this case.

Back, momentarily, however to the modern, radical feminists who have earned the name, "feminazis" (well, at least the "nazi" part) by their efforts to suppress all speech that challenges their "aborthodoxy", kill as many "unwanted" members of their "ideal" society (which also happens to correspond uncannily to the socialist tyranny Hitler, Stalin and others called "utopia") as possible, and achieve other arguably fascist ends...

Arx Axiom:

AN AVERSION TO DIABOLICAL MEN (AND WOMEN)IS A HEALTHY THING; BUT THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A DIABOLICAL AVERSION TO MEN (AND WOMEN, AND CHILDREN), AND THAT IS A VERY DESTRUCTIVE THING FOR EVERYONE, MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN, CONCERNED.

Lyssie, although I am obviously not PA/"C", I agree with much of what you say regarding the Kampf's treatment of their daughter, however, when you reference killing a child as a medical procedure, that is tantamount to calling that child "a disease". Anyone who posits such a view also should not be referenced as pro-anything feminine; there is nothing constructively feminine (or masculine, for that matter; both sexes are, I believe, equally and naturally emotionally hard-wired to protect their offspring) about child-killing; moreover, most of the children killed by sex-selection abortions are little girls, and it's difficult to imagine a more misogynistic animus than to reference little girls as "a disease"; it implies that they are not human, and that they should be eliminated.
Hitler also referenced Jews, especially, but also other groups he did not like as "diseases"; they were called "parasites", "lice", "a disease", "cancerous growths on society", ad nauseam.

Would you have this little boy killed, if his mother were so inclined, because he is black, or because he is male? He is judicially innocent of any capital offense; therefore he should not be put to death. It's not that complicated. His maternal grandparents, however, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for kidnapping, assault, battery, false imprisonment, reckless endangerment and attempted murder; and if we lived in the kind of free, just, and civilized society that would be best for this little boy (and all other children) to inherit, they would be.

F the CC,

what are hiding for? Come out from the dark and show yourself, what are you afraid of?

Pat, thank you!

"And I'm glad you're fond of Jasper. Someone's gotta be."

Lyssie,

com'on, you like me.

Many in the NOW culture have been sexually abused by men, often related to them, at a young age
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Source?

Carol, this post is about parents who attempted to MAKE this woman's choice for her. What are your thoughts on what they did to her? Why aren't they going to jail?

Posted by: heather at October 10, 2007 7:04 PM

Being pro-choice and a feminist, I think what they did to her is reprehensible. She had obviously made her choice with respect to the pregnancy, and they should have respected that choice. I have no idea why they aren't going to jail. There's probably more to the story; there usually is. Maybe they took a plea.

Carol, I agree. Why aren't they going to jail? Society isn't sening a very good message here.

AAk, typo, sending!

Hmmmmm. Yes. The whole story isn't being told here. Did the parents not have custody of their daughter? How can custodial parents be charged with kidnapping?
Where were these control freaks thinking that they were going to take their daughter for a late term abortion? Did they think that the mandatory counscelling required before an abortion wouldn't make it quite obvious that the daughter had already decided not to abort?
What would they have done if she had wanted an abortion and they wanted her to gestate? Lock her in the basement until giving birth?
The whole thing is goofy.

Isn't SoMG a girl???

"What would they have done if she had wanted an abortion and they wanted her to gestate?"

The parents in this case would've got life in prison.

Sally,

Mandatory counselling would have stopped the forced abortion of this young woman? To think PC people so strongly opposed mandatory counselling.

jasper, correct! rosie, Who knows?

Heather,

I junked "F the CC" nasty comments...the punk.

jasper, thanks. I see one more.

"I junked "F the CC" nasty comments...the punk."

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! They were so insightful and well-argued. How could you, Jasper? How could you?

Laura,

Not that I have the slightest reason to suppose for one split second that your question is a sincere one, Laura; your posts do not indicate to me that you have a bone of that nature in your body: For the record, however, I have heard such claims from numerous pro-abort "escorts" at various events, as well as from others who have dealt more closely with them than I have. I'm sure you know the names of some of these folks better than I would, though of course your bias would never allow you to let go of any weapon, however spurious, you could somehow use against anyone interested in saving the lives you and your ilk want taken.

For the record, however, I have heard such claims from numerous pro-abort "escorts" at various events, as well as from others who have dealt more closely with them than I have. I'm sure you know the names of some of these folks better than I would, though of course your bias would never allow you to let go of any weapon, however spurious, you could somehow use against anyone interested in saving the lives you and your ilk want taken.

Posted by: Pat at October 10, 2007 8:48 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So you really have no clue, and you made it all up - just like the rest of your bizarre, rambling, schizophrenic post.

Rae,

Mule fritters?

That might have to replace "Phooey"...or at least get equal time...

Sally,

Mandatory counselling would have stopped the forced abortion of this young woman? To think PC people so strongly opposed mandatory counselling.

Posted by: Mary at October 10, 2007 8:06 PM

..................................
Government imposed counselling by religious fundy bible thumpers yes. PP has always implimented counscelling. Why waste the time and money over legislation that is not necessary? Why are some of you folks into so much governmental control? Was daddy a facist?

Sally,

My daddy was hardly a fascist. He was one of the survivors of the 101st airborne at the siege of Bastogne which stopped the fascist nazi counterattack in Europe.
I have no idea what you mean about government imposed counselling by religious fundy bible thumpers since these people are unlikely to work in abortion clinics.
How do you know this couple was taking their daughter to a PP clinic where you say there is counselling?
Yes, counselling was legislated. But according to you this is just as well since this would have prevented this young woman from being forced to have an abortion.

Rae,

Mule fritters? Is that in the same category as road apples?

Laura: Why should feminists speak up? What the hell does this have to do with feminism? Two fruit loops committed a crime, and they've been sentenced.

When Andrea Yates and Deanna Laney killed their kids because "God told them to," was it a matter that reflected on ALL Christians or ALL Texans, or just the two fruitloops who committed the crimes?

Exactly. The obvious point. Amazing how some people can't see such.

Doug

Sally,

My daddy was hardly a fascist. He was one of the survivors of the 101st airborne at the siege of Bastogne which stopped the fascist nazi counterattack in Europe.
I have no idea what you mean about government imposed counselling by religious fundy bible thumpers since these people are unlikely to work in abortion clinics.
How do you know this couple was taking their daughter to a PP clinic where you say there is counselling?
Yes, counselling was legislated. But according to you this is just as well since this would have prevented this young woman from being forced to have an abortion.

Posted by: Mary at October 10, 2007 10:15 PM

Mary, you are young and stupid.

*sigh* I am not in anyway condoning what these people did. It's very troubling. In terms of forced medical procedures, though, the legality is a very fuzzy issue with an underage child. As is kidnapping- in fact, if a child is under 18 and not emancipated, and there are no custody issues at hand, I don't think that it can even apply. It's terrible, yes, you'll never catch me saying otherwise, but the law is a tricky bugger like that.

Sally,

Thank you for the compliment that I'm young. I'm fact older than you. Also Sally, when you can't give an intelligent argument simply acknowledge the fact and be quiet. Otherwise, you're the one who ends up looking stupid.

Sally, that was truly very uncalled for. Out of everyone here, Mary is one of the most level-headed, fair, and gracious bloggers. It was obvious that you had nothing meaningful to say, so you resorted to bashing one out of the handful of pro-lifers on this site that I hold in high regard.

I'm really not proud sometimes of the other people who call themselves pro-choice. *sigh*

Lyssie, it's good to see you again! Where have you been?

I've been back for a little bit now, Bethany. As you know, though, college as a science major is a little bit tough, and I've been focusing my efforts there and stopped in only once in a while for updates on you wonderful people. :D

How are your babies and how's the painting going? :)

Lyssie, you're in college? Are you on facebook? Let's be friends! My name is Nicholas A. Scoville on facebook.

Lyssie,

How nice to see you back and thank you so much for your kind words and support. They mean a lot, especially coming from you.
A science major! Good grief. While I've had to take many science courses over the years, I usually just scraped by, and only with a lot of help. My son has a forestry major and is required to study various sciences. Thankfully he is far more gifted in this area than I ever was.
I hope you can visit more often. Its obvious we all think highly of you and miss you when you are LOA. Best of luck in your studies.

Mary, great to see you! Lyssie, nice to see you take up for Mary. Mary, I give you so much credit for your tact! You ALWAYS show it. I would never excuse Sally's actions, but on another thread, Sally told us all "I have been abused in every possible way you could ever imagine." "I sufer from PTSD." Perhaps this contributes to her constant anger.

Not excusing her, just shedding some possible light.

"My son has a forestry major"

Hi Mary,

I loved to do something like that...

Mary,
I love reading your posts. You always have a very kind way of stating your feelings in a very tactful and respectful way. I love the wisdom you have gained through life. You apply it all so well on Jill's site. Keep up the good work!

Hi to everyone too! Gotta run.

Sure, Bobby, I'll be your facebook friend. :D

You have to make sure you post pictures of your little girl when she's born, ok? :)

Sweet! Oh I'll post em.

I'm going to facebook now. Check in a few minutes to see if I've requested you!! :D

Heather and Sandy,

Thank you to you both as well as Lyssie for your kind words and support. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Jasper,

My son loves forestry and hopes to be a ranger someday. He has this tree identification class that he is so excited about though it sounds boring to me. I mean, a tree is a tree as far as I'm concerned. Its like when I go diving and people want to know the kind of fish I see. They're all the same to me, they have fins, a tail, and breathe underwater.

Mary, your son doesn't happen to go to Virginia Tech, does he? (I know one that's a forestry major at VT).

Lyssie,

No he doesn't.

I think those two should have done jail time. What they did was outrageous and atrocious.

But I know feminists are all sorry about this case.

Sorry they missed out on getting some abortion pocket change.

********************************************
And again we see ths complete and total idiocy so typical of antichoicers -

What should have her parents done when they found out their criminal daugther got "bonked" by some black jail bird and get a "half-breed" as a grand-kid?

Would it make them better parents for telling their daugther they want no business with her and her quest to make chocolate milk kids, throw her out of the house and disown her?

I would think that it would have been better to have a discourse with their daughter as adult to adult, than to kidnap her, for crying out loud. But you know,there are idiots everywhere it would seem. I don't know what they were thinking, but they certainly were not engaging the brains that they were given. I am saddened to see that it is a slap on the wrist, because that will just embolden the next person who chooses to act in such a manner. But these people apparently had lots of money to hire an apparently good lawyer/private investigator to dig into the background of their adult daughter. I have to hope that they are not so stupid as to not follow through with the courts orders from here, or they will most likely be going to jail. Let's not forget they crossed state lines as well in the commission of the crimes against there daughter. If I am understanding correctly, are there not charges still pending against them in the state of NH? Maybe they will not get off so lightly in that state, and using the firearm in the commission of a kidnapping, strongarm kidnapping, which this appears, and interstate kidnapping, would seem to be federal offenses. I think the law is not done with them yet. I could be wrong. I hope I am not.

I don't care that the daughter and her boyfriend were less than saintly. NO ONE had the right to kidnap her, threaten her life, or try to force her to have an abortion she didn't want.
Yes, I think it would have been better for her parents to tell her they did not want her in their home or lives. She could have sought help from a social service agency and emergency shelter. Perhaps over time she and her parents could reconcile and she could get her life in order. Young mothers at the shelter I volunteer at take control of their lives and eventually live independently. If she and her parents could not reconcile, so be it.

So, yeah, the world is a crazy place.

As for me, the only thing I can handle is if my daughters come home pregnant, I'll just throw them out of the house. My wife and I have told them this before and now. I see too much grief of grandparents having to deal with their own kids not being responsible with adult situations. Then their grandkids grow up and it's another issue to deal with, like I've seen in this small town.

...................."these people apparently had lots of money".....................

I agree with that statement. Money in this case wasn't an issue. I think it was about high society social status and not wanting others to think what your own daughter has brought to fruition.

................."NO ONE had the right to kidnap her, threaten her life, or try to force her to have an abortion she didn't want."...............

I agree. Some parents get the idea that they can take upon themselves to control their kids without earning their respect. This is a sad case. Parents do need to use the "wait and see" approach before going on a wild goose chase.