Obama: Terri Schiavo should have been a horse

horse.jpgDuring last night's Democrat presidential debate, Barack Obama for the 2nd time said his biggest legislative regret thus far was voting to try to stop Terri Schindler Schiavo's husband from starving and dehydrating her to death.

According to today's Miami Herald:

He said he wished he had spoken out when Republican lawmakers tried to stop the severely brain-damaged woman's husband from removing her feeding tube in 2005.

"It wasn't something I was comfortable with, but it was not something that I stood on the floor and stopped, and I think that was a mistake.''

That vote was unanimous. This means Obama would be the sole opponent could he turn back the clock. He has earned the ranking of most liberal senator of 2007 and must lament having only ranked 16th most liberal in 2005. A vote to kill Terri would have catapaulted him.

It's really too bad Terri wasn't a horse....

As both state and U.S. senator, Obama either supported or co-sponsored measures to stop horse slaughter, particularly since there is a horse factory in IL.

Terri would also have been better off a dog as far as Obama is concerned, because he has supported a legislative crack-down on dog fighting.

Or perhaps had Terri been born a little bird, Obama would have felt compelled to save her life. On his website he states:

I believe that not only does God know when the sparrow falls from its nest, but He is also watching to see who will stop and who will pass it by, and who is kind enough to lift it back.

Or if only Terri had been a convicted murderer. In IL Obama co-sponsored death penalty reform legislation, stating, "no innocent person should end up on death row."

Or if only Terri were a rooster....

I could go on.

Bottom line: If only Terri were anything other than a helpless, defenseless, innocent human being, Obama would have fought for her to live.


Comments:

Bottom line: If only Terri were anything other than a helpless, defenseless, brainless, dead-to-the-world human vegetable who told her spouse that she wouldn't want to live like that, Obama would have fought for her to live.

Fixed that for you.

Posted by: reality at February 27, 2008 5:10 PM


Excellent commentary, Jill.

The truth be told, it makes me want to cry.
:(

Posted by: JLM at February 27, 2008 5:15 PM


Reality, your ignorance on the Schiavo case is disturbing.

Did you know (obviously not) that when a nurse came in to explain to Terri what was happening (this nurse thought enough of Terri to do this) Terri got visibly upset.

The nurse said "You can stop all of this if you say 'I want to live.'" Terri got very agitated and said "I wan..." Sounds to me like she wasn't "dead to the world" as you so eloquently stated.

I can link to the article but here is an excerpt:

Weller essentially told Terri Schiavo, "You had better say you want to live or they will kill you. Just say you want to live."

Schiavo responded with a drawn out, "IIIIII," then screamed out "waaaaaaaa" so loudly that a police officer stationed outside the room came in.

Posted by: Kristen at February 27, 2008 5:31 PM


I believe that not only does God know when the sparrow falls from its nest, but He is also watching to see who will stop and who will pass it by, and who is kind enough to lift it back.

The horrendous hypocrisy of those words just makes my blood boil.


Posted by: Bethany at February 27, 2008 5:36 PM


Reality,

Did you ever see Terri in person? Did you have access to her medical records? Did you know her family? Your credentials as a neurologist are what? Did you ever provide her nursing care so that you could give a professional opinion based on your observations as a nursing professional? Prior to all this, did you know Terri and her husband and have access to their conversations?

Posted by: Mary at February 27, 2008 5:37 PM


Excellent commentary, Jill, as usual. If only Terri were a horse...and Obama were NOT such an ass.

"reality" hardly has any room to criticize Terri or anyone else for being brainless or dead to the real world; one is either a vegetable or a human; noone can be both in the real world.

What can you legally do with a fellow human? Relate to him/her; care for him/her, protect him/her.

What can you legally do with a vegetable? Cut it up, mash it up, boil it, fry it, eat it raw, steam it, puree it...any thing you want, which will normally be something you would NOT want done to you.

But, that's the point of the "human vegetable" terminology; to dehumanize vulnerable people so that, despite the fact that anyone, including "reality", could become brain damaged but cannot change one's species, those who are brain damaged/mentally handicapped are considered "not one of us", and thus deprived, in the time of greatest need, of the protection and care that civilized (read, authentic) human society would give them.

It's no different in intent or effect than calling someone a louse, a parasite, a vermin, a cancer, or some other ethnic slur like the n-word. The only difference is that dehumanizing the vulnerable according to disability is currently politically correct, whereas demeaning them ethnically is not...yet. At least not if their sector tends to vote communist/socialist/democratic.

Posted by: reality czech at February 27, 2008 5:41 PM


This correlation by Jill (and others) is bafflingly uninformed.

According to her court-appointed guardian ad-leitem, Terri Schaivo showed no ability whatsoever to interact with others.

Does this mean she (and all other persons like her) should be euthanized on the spot?

No.

However, the law (remember that?) clearly states that Michael was her legal next-of-kin. Not her parents or siblings. Therefore, it was up to him to manage her wishes.

In the meantime, for those of you still convinced that Terri was not in a PVS and capable of carrying on conversations with others, feel free to check out her autopsy results.

Posted by: CHV at February 27, 2008 5:55 PM


The prophet Obama has tipped his hand again. And yet I do not blame him as much for his ignorance as I blame the pathetic cave-in by the Republican leadership when faced with polling that showed public disapproval of their actions. When faced with the decision to actually defend their position, they instead scattered. We get the government we deserve.

It is unfair that we expect better things from the Republicans but that is the reality of things. Nothing that Obama or Hillary says would surprise most people.

Posted by: Jerry at February 27, 2008 6:00 PM


CHV and reality -

People who make the decision that Michael said Terri made make it regarding medical conditions like heroic measures or zero brain activity. Terri WAS NOT brain dead NOR were any heroic measure needed to keep her alive. Hundreds of thousands of people have feeding tubes which is all she required.

CHV - so are we to dismiss all the people that DID interact with Terri? The tapes her family made of her interacting with others? The ME never saw her when she was alive.

Posted by: Kristen at February 27, 2008 6:03 PM


CHV,

Autopsy results can be deceiving, especially where the brain is concerned. There was a case in France of a man who by all appearances lived and functioned very normally. He complained of headaches and when tested doctors were shocked to discover only fluid in his skull. They also could not explain how he was even alive, much less functioning. Looking at his brain in an autopsy chamber one couldn't be blamed for judging this condition totally incompatible with life, much less function. So how do you explain it?

The problem here CHV is the more we learn of the brain the less we know. How do savants function?
Why are some autistic children, often misdiagnosed as retarded, in fact highly intelligent? A man of great genius such as Stephen Hawking, who is totally debilitated by ALS would at one time have been considered a "vegetable", totally unable to communicate with the world. Now he does so only because technology enables him to do so.
People who were never expected to regain function after brain injury have, for reasons no one comprehends.

Posted by: Mary at February 27, 2008 6:15 PM


According to her court-appointed guardian ad-leitem, Terri Schaivo showed no ability whatsoever to interact with others.

You are severly misinformed. Go to terrisfight.org and look at the videos there. You can see Terri responding to a command to open her eyes. You can see Terri laughing at Jokes that her father makes. Terri did respond and interact with others, just not at the level that others think is worthy.

Also, read Kristen's 5:31 post.

Posted by: Bethany at February 27, 2008 6:33 PM


As one who was in front of Hospice Woodside for most
of March 05 during Terri's court ordered murder, I still
harbor much anger at the failure of so many to save this
precious and innocent disabled woman's life.

I become particularly enraged when pro-death trolls
spew their venom, stating Terri deserved the death penalty
for not measuring up to their definition of a life worthy
to be lived.

I've just finished a book of photos of the hundreds, if not thousands of us who worked feverishly to try to see her life
spared so that her family could lovingly care for her.

My life has been forever altered and I'll never really rest,
until justice is served to the wicked who destroyed Terri
Schindler.

Posted by: lesforlife at February 27, 2008 7:16 PM


Obama didn't say he wanted her dead, he said it was a mistake for the Federal Government to get involved. Remember, he used to teach Constitutional Law and has a good idea of what part of our federal system should be settling disputes like this. It was a Florida question, the fact that Florida didn't decide it the way you guys wanted is NOT a reason for the US Congress to get involved.

Posted by: Hal at February 27, 2008 7:28 PM


Can we do a monthly protest outside of Obama's house in Highland Park like we do at the PP in Aurora??

Posted by: Meg at February 27, 2008 7:40 PM


YES, let's do a monthly (or weekly) protest at Obama's house and guarantee his election.

Posted by: Hal at February 27, 2008 7:42 PM


"The horrendous hypocrisy of those words just makes my blood boil."

me too Bethany. and the corrupt MSM will not call him on it.

Hal: "Obama didn't say he wanted her dead, he said it was a mistake for the Federal Government to get involved."

why? he wants the federal government to be involved in everthing else. They get involved to stop death-row prisoners from getting executed by lethal injection, or to stop terrorists from getting a little water poured over their faces (waterboarding). If they can get involved in these things, why can't prevent an innocent lady from being dehydrated and starved to death?

Posted by: jasper at February 27, 2008 8:47 PM


"Or if only Terri had been a convicted murderer. In IL Obama co-sponsored death penalty reform legislation, stating, 'no innocent person should end up on death row.'"

Jill, I love ya to death, but you're not really defending the death penalty, are you?

Thanks for covering this though. I hadn't gotten a chance to cover this story yet. Time and time again Obama amazes me with his downright disdain for human life.

And to hear and read the opposition to Terri's case angers me like nothing else. There's no attempt at mercy, no compassion in Terri's opposition. It's disgusting, and it saturates our culture.

Thanks Jill!

+greg

Posted by: Greg at February 27, 2008 8:52 PM


The case really was nothing more than when the government should intervene in the lives of normal Americans. What was most disturbing is that they choose this one lady to turn into a political fight, and go where government should not go. The vote meant very little on if they should she should live or die - it was all about the reaches of government.

I think this whole blog post was a bit of a low blow - can we say Bush is extremely anti-life because he chose to bomb another nation?

Posted by: Brennan at February 27, 2008 9:13 PM


Again, I say this to everyone all the time, if I am in a situation like Terri I want to be taken off of all life support, even a feeding tube. I don't want a feeding tube in me. I don't want to be on life support. If that ever haapens to me I'd rather die.

Posted by: Jess at February 27, 2008 9:28 PM


Barack Obama is a monster. I will use every last ounce of my will to convince everyone I know to vote against him. At this point, I don't even care if we end up with President Hillary - just as long as it's not Obama.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at February 27, 2008 9:36 PM


Speaking of horses... and death... and I'll throw beating things in there too...

Regardless of whether or not Terri Schiavo should have died, the fact is that she did. She suffered in life, but do not prolong this pain anymore. Fight euthanasia if you like, but take Ms Schiavo off your political agenda. Let the poor woman rest in peace, as she deserves.

Posted by: Leah at February 27, 2008 10:17 PM


Mary, 6:15,

Thank you for your insight. Amazing!

Posted by: Janet at February 27, 2008 10:21 PM


Again, I say this to everyone all the time, if I am in a situation like Terri I want to be taken off of all life support, even a feeding tube. I don't want a feeding tube in me. I don't want to be on life support. If that ever haapens to me I'd rather die.

I sincerely hope that one day you will not have to eat your words.

Posted by: Bethany at February 27, 2008 10:24 PM


Let the poor woman rest in peace, as she deserves.

Terri deserved to live until her natural death. She deserved not to be denied the basic right to food and water that we ALL enjoy.

She did not deserve to die, but no one seems to care about her peace while she's living..why the concern after she's dead?

How can she "rest in peace" when her life was taken away in such a cruel manner?

The only way to truly let her "rest in peace" is to give her the justice she deserves.

No one gave her the chance to die in peace, naturally, at her appointed time.

They killed her cruelly by starvation before she was ready.

I'm sorry if we can't forget that very important fact for you.

Posted by: Bethany at February 27, 2008 10:28 PM


CHV 5:55,

Michael Schiavo could have allowed Terri's parents to care for her, they were more than willing to do so. His actions were unconscionable.

Jill's observations are right on, a pet would have been treated with more respect than Terri was.

Posted by: Janet at February 27, 2008 10:30 PM


I'm sorry too, Bethany.

Posted by: Leah at February 27, 2008 10:31 PM


Hey has anyone realized that Easters is extrodinarily early this year? It won't be this early for another 220 years. Ok I liked it better in April anyway. Just thought I should bring this up.

Posted by: Jess at February 27, 2008 10:46 PM


Jess,
I think early Easter is awesome. I have a huge snow fort in my front yard in Chicago and it might last until Easter. How's that for wild?

Anyway, I got to see my Dad die of Parkinsons disease and he spent days unable to speak cause of a gradual loss of his muscle control. He was definitely "there" mentally long after he could vrespond to doctors etc...

Posted by: truthseeker at February 27, 2008 11:04 PM


Janet, 10:21PM
Thank you for your kind words. I also agree with you that Michael Shiavo could have turned Terri's care over to her parents, who begged him to do so. No one was asking him for anything. He had another girlfriend and two children. I don't fault the man for making a new life for himself, but I cannot understand why he didn't just divorce Terri, go on with his life, and let her parents care for her.

Posted by: Mary at February 27, 2008 11:14 PM


". . . but I cannot understand why he didn't just divorce Terri, go on with his life, and let her parents care for her."

One possible explanation is that he wanted to fulfill his promise to her.

Posted by: Hal at February 27, 2008 11:21 PM


Kirsten, if Terri had been interacting with other people, NO ONE would have diagnosed her as being in a persistant vegetative state.

Posted by: SoMG at February 27, 2008 11:22 PM



I've posted this story on other threads but I think its very appropriate here. Please bear with me those who have read it.

Years ago I was involved in the post ICU care of a severely brain injured young man thought to be "vegetative". Other than some purposeful and non purposeful movement we saw no progress after weeks of care and were preparing to send him to a nursing home in the morning.
The man had pulled out his nasogastric tube and we talked about reinserting it. We were shocked to hear the man distinctly say SH**! Obviously he had heard us, clearly understood what we were going to do, and had a very strong opinion on the matter. How could this be? We "knew" the man was vegetative and without hope. I had cared for him and like the other nurses, had seen no hopeful signs.
Rather than being transferred to the nursing home, he was sent to rehab where after several months he made an astounding recovery and was discharged. Who knows what would have happened to this man if he hadn't sworn at us!

Posted by: Mary at February 27, 2008 11:25 PM


Medical controversies aside, the fact is that the US Congress had no right, legally or morally, to intervene in the Shaivo case. The courts of the State of Florida and the US district court handled the matter in accordance with applicable laws. That's how we do things in a nation of laws. For congressional Republicans and the President to attempt to impose their personal religious views violates the spirit and the letter of the Constitution.

Posted by: Fritz at February 27, 2008 11:26 PM


Hal,

How do we even know such a promise was made? Its also possible he wanted to get back at her parents. Considering he had gone on with his life with a new girlfriend and children, about which I don't fault him, why didn't he divorce her sooner? She had loving parents to care for her.

Posted by: Mary at February 27, 2008 11:28 PM


SOMG,

A person who has suffered a stroke may be totally unable to communicate. The person may also have brain function and very capable of thought and reasoning. I remember on woman who because of a brain aneurysm could communicate with me one minute, and totally incapable of doing so the next. Was she vegetative?
Stephen Hawking, a man of considerable genius is totally disabled by ALS and can only communicate because modern technology enables him to do so. At one time he might well have been considered vegetative.
I also saw comatose patients with purposeful and non purposeful movement, responsive to certain stimuli, but considered vegetative.
Its a very subjective diagnosis.

Posted by: Mary at February 27, 2008 11:37 PM


Mary, we don't know. But every court that looked into it sided with her husband. Maybe they were right, maybe they were wrong. I agree with Obama, however, that it's not the job of the US Congress to try to figure it out.

Posted by: Hal at February 27, 2008 11:38 PM


Speaking of horrible spouses, my ex boyfriends mother, you know the one who said if I got pregnant and didn't abort she wouldn't pay for her son's college tuition? She was married before she married his Dad. She and her first husband got into a car accident. Her husband was paralyzed, she was fine. She took his insurance money then divorced him and never saw him again. He hung on for awhile, about 20 years before dying. Sad story.

There are two things you can say if a girl gets pregnant, "Wow I'm so excited!" or, "what are you going to do?"

Posted by: Jess at February 27, 2008 11:41 PM


Hal,

All this was done on the desperate appeals of her parents who would apparently stop at nothing to save their daughter. Who loved her more than they did? I have never held the courts of our land in high regard, I'm sorry to say, and the fact they rule a certain way holds very little significance for me.

Posted by: Mary at February 27, 2008 11:46 PM


Jess 11:41PM

The old girl sounds like a real charmer. She wouldn't pay her son's tuition if you didn't abort a possible pregnancy? Can we say "controller" and "coersion"?
The story of her ex husband is indeed tragic. From what I understand most marriages break up after a spinal cord injury so this situation is not an unusual case. Hopefully, like Terri, he had a devoted family to care for him.


Posted by: Mary at February 27, 2008 11:53 PM


Hal,
as you know, some people are inconvenient and that's good enough reason to end their life. After all, Michael Schiavo didn't plan on having an incapacitated wife at that time -- so it it was best to just abort (Oops, murder) the inconvenient wife/life.

I'm sure it all makes perfect sense to you....

Posted by: Anon Anon at February 28, 2008 12:03 AM


Hey anyone hear about this?

http://www.richmondsunlight.com/bill/2008/hb1126/fulltext/

Posted by: prettyinpink at February 28, 2008 12:16 AM



I also believe we should get Pro-Life national celebrity spokes-persons in movies, art, music, sports, drama, TV, fashion, etc. Whack the world with our BEST SHOT. Go completely public with the realities of Abortion and all it's ramifications. Hit hard and raw....and stop preaching to the the choir!!! Hitting the demons with the bible is great, but ... I think Christian's have their hands full hitting each other with the bible... rather, hit the demon with new political candidates, celebrities, and reality in terms of humanity. God can enter through that in the somewhat open door.

We should have access to every Media by phone, e mail and letter. Difficult to find that information. Every reporter should be investigated and reported on their bias, publicly.

I believe we must gather immediately! This is what I wrote in Mark Crutcher's Blog:

We MUST gather immediately to establish "A-Teams" Pro-Life perspective political candidate lineups that will run against current Pro-Abort politicians. "Vote out the Vile, Vote in the Virtue!" With a tandem of comprehensive guidance and advisory consultants, any Pro-Life politician newcomers in the "A-Team" lineups will be formidable challengers to the reigning Pro-Abort local, state, and national government leaders.
The media exposure alone, of Pro-Abort murder mentality stances, will be an advance to ending the apathy of ignorance dilemma! Talk about talking about the ugly reality of abortion! Wow, what a forum!
Wake Up! Shake it Up!! We Can Do!!! May God's Will be Our Movement.
N O W !!!
:-)
(Can it get anymore exciting and positive than this?)
Pro-Life posse mount immediately! Charge forward courageously to reclaim Our Mountains of Compassion, Humanitarianism and Truth in the Glory of Love and Life.
# Posted By Gera Schmidt | 2/21/08 9:55 AMI

P.S. Start a Pro-Life politician training camp! Let's scout for some REAL Men and REAL Women to start handling this country's leadership!
I feel the mess we are in today, and what a depraved mess it is, is because WE are NOT challenging the politicians (lawyers) or media.
If you aren't commenting on at least 3 Pro-Abort stories a day, (via Pro-Life America.com, etc.) you aren't doing much of anything to speak of. Shame on you. Have an ounce of courage, a drop of energy, BE ON THE TEAM THAT WILL WIN BECAUSE OF YOU!! We love you and even more, need you!

Posted by: Gera Schmidt at February 28, 2008 12:22 AM


No, Mary, Stephen Hawking would never have been diagnosed as being in a persistant vegetative state. He can move his finger in response to a request.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Posted by: SoMG at February 28, 2008 1:44 AM


Does Sean Hannity still broadcast live from outside the Schaivo house? That was so cool. That was so dignified.

Does Bill Frist still believe she was alive? This was a man that believes you can still get aids from a toilet seat.

Obama wanted to take back that vote because it was none of his business. It is none of OUR business. It was a waste of our tax dollars.

Hey John Lewandowski, how is that going? i saw that one county in texas had 375000 more early voters than before. I don't think that was to support the retread bush crony McCain.


Posted by: PeachPit at February 28, 2008 7:11 AM


Kirsten, if Terri had been interacting with other people, NO ONE would have diagnosed her as being in a persistant vegetative state.

Posted by: SoMG at February 27, 2008 11:22 PM

What?! You obviously no NOTHING about the case, nor have you bothered to look at any video of Terri.

As Mary stated stroke victims are the same, but I'm sure given the choice you'd starve them to death too.

And by the way, how will we ever know now if Terri could have been rehabilitated? No therapy was ever tried, her "husband" blocked all attempts by her family for therapy and rehabilitation. 50 neurologists came forward and said that Terri should be re-evaluated but again Michael's lawyers blocked that. In addition 15 neurologists' affidavits were presented in court and 30 others were willing to testify. But the judge, WITH NO MEDICAL BACKGROUND, refused to allow the care of Terri to be turned over to her parents and therapy to start.

Posted by: Kristen at February 28, 2008 7:27 AM


Oops! should read "know NOTHING..."

Posted by: Kristen at February 28, 2008 7:30 AM


Surely those 50 doctors could of found more ways to get more tubes into her, put her on the news, show her struggling more and really tug at the heart strings of America.

Posted by: PeachPit at February 28, 2008 7:34 AM


SOMG,

You don't know what you're talking about. Terri Schiavo moved. Comatose and "vegetative" patients don't lie in bed like sleeping beauty. Some of them never lie still. Others will respond to simple commands like "squeeze my fingers". Brain injured patients can have almost superhuman strength and be violent and frightening. You're talking a very wide range of capabilities and behaviors when it comes to head injuries.
The fact he can only move his little finger and is incapable of communicating without technology might well have meant a diagnosis of "vegetative" 30 or 40 years ago, maybe 20 years ago. How would anyone know he could communicate and how would he communicate?

I remember reading the account of one woman who had a stroke and was unable to express herself in any way. To their discredit, her nurses talked freely in front of her, often confusing and frightening her. They assumed she couldn't hear or understand, that she was vegetative. She heard and understood just find thank you and after she recovered described what she considered upsetting and unprofessional discussion. Her advise to medical personnel was "NEVER assume a patient can't hear or understand you". She also advised talking to comatose patients and helping with orienting them to place and time, etc.

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 7:51 AM


Who cares, why are we debating her still....the point is, Obama was wise to want to reverse that decision...it was none of anyone but her husband and family's business and they should of dealt with it on their own...

Posted by: PeachPit at February 28, 2008 7:53 AM


PP, 7:34am

Exactly what other tubes would these doctors have to put in her? Why not just let her parents care for her? No other family in America cares for severely challenged family members?

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 7:59 AM



Speaking of technology. People with cerebral palsy and autism are using technology to enable them to communicate. People who were often misdiagnosed as severely retarded, brain damaged, or "vegetative" and are in fact not.

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 8:03 AM


Looking throughout history you will notice that it is one name, one case, one indident that changes everything. One Rosa Parks. Should we have ignored her? One Norma McCreavey. One Dred Scott.

The point we have made Terri the poster child because somebody had to be the poster child. We use a handful of aborted babies on posters to represent the "REST" of the unseen, unknown aborted children.

We can't, no we WON'T let Terri go, because she is not just one dead person, she is our future.

Posted by: mk at February 28, 2008 8:10 AM


Thank you, MK!

Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 8:12 AM


"I have never held the courts of our land in high regard, I'm sorry to say, and the fact they rule a certain way holds very little significance for me."

But Congress we can trust?

Okay.

Posted by: hal at February 28, 2008 8:16 AM


Is life itself or quality of life more important?

My dog is completely blind and runs into walls. It sucks for him. If he had no legs and was blind, life would suck even more. If he had no legs, was blind and had asthma, life would suck big time.

But at what point does his life sucking become grounds to end his life?

In the future, that point will move farther and farther back, until we'll start questioning what right we have to let someone live, rather than what right we have to force their end. Dominoes don't stop once they start.

This is not about Terri - it's about the fundamental value of human life and the consequences of electing someone who believes he has the right to act as the hand of God.

Posted by: Bonnie at February 28, 2008 8:32 AM


Hal,

Congress' approval rating just went up to 20% from 11%. That speaks volumes.

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 9:10 AM


why? he wants the federal government to be involved in everthing else.

No kidding. He also wants the federal government to be involved in taking alot more of people's hard earned cash (has anyone asked yet how he defines "rich"?).


Bleah.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2008 9:22 AM


"Obama didn't say he wanted her dead, he said it was a mistake for the Federal Government to get involved."


In this case, these two things were equivalent.

And the fact that he's a constitutional law professor doesn't impress. Many con law professors are extremely liberal (like professors in most other, non-technical subjects) and believe in an activist judiciary that would have the founding fathers rolling in their graves. They have a severely distorted view of the constitution.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2008 9:25 AM


"Barack Obama is a monster. I will use every last ounce of my will to convince everyone I know to vote against him. At this point, I don't even care if we end up with President Hillary - just as long as it's not Obama."

Good for you, John. I agree with you. I'm usually silent on politics, but I've been, and plan to be, more vocal this year. I think he is a massive hypocrite, and will be terrible for this country.

Sadly, I'm in Ohio, and 3 or 4 Obama signs have popped up in my neighborhood this week (with zero Hillary signs), so I think she's done (not that I support her either, but she is slightly better than him).

Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2008 9:29 AM


Terri's autopsy indicated that her brain was 40% smaller than a healthy brain, and was also blind. She would have been physiologically incapable of interacting with her family as they claim she did.
Further, the video on Terri's website is heavily edited from hours of total footage where she was otherwise inert.

Her family's suggestion that Terri could speak to others just is not supported by the medical facts in this case.

I felt for Terri Schaivo. I truly did.

But the sight of so many people turning the grounds outside her hospice into a media-induced circus was disgusting, as was Tom Delay doing the same to score political points with his conservative base.


Posted by: CHV at February 28, 2008 9:42 AM


No one has spent more of your "hard earned money" than George Bush. He might not be taxing it, but he's spending it. You could probably fund all of Obama's social programs for what we spend in 10 days in Iraq. And think how much more of your "hard earned money" you'd have if Bush hadn't wrecked the Oil market and Exxon was making massive profits. I ebbing tide grounds all ships, and we really need a leader like Obama to fix the economy, restore our Constitution, and institute a sane foreign policy.

Posted by: hal at February 28, 2008 9:57 AM


I feel for whomever the next president is...they will inherit the war and the deficit/economy, yuck. The majority of this country has not had to sacrifice one thing for this war to happen. No draft. No taxes for the war. Someone is going to have to pay for all of this and it is US!

A vote for Obama means less Americans die. That is what we want isn't it?

Posted by: PeachPit at February 28, 2008 10:02 AM


CHV,

Like I told you, there is little about the brain we understand. How can a man with no apparent brain matter live, much less function normally? He remains a medical mystery.
Its possible Terri was in fact doing what she was supposedly unable to do and we cannot explain how. How do we explain savants, severely retarded people who can play piano concertos or recite dates and times going back centuries?

My heart ached for her parents. How Michael could turn a cold shoulder to their pleas is beyond me. So what if they took her? How would that affect his life? Who was asking him for anything? Divorce her and move on with the girlfriend he had had for several years and let Terri's parents care for her. Why not?

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 10:07 AM


Hal, 9:28am

Ever hear of "The Great Society"? Massive social programs initiated by President Johnson to cure all our social ills. We haven't cured social ills, and have spent trillions not doing so. Oh, and spending was carefully calculated and planned! This program or that would only cost this or that. Right.

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 10:15 AM


I also believe we should get Pro-Life national celebrity spokes-persons in movies, art, music, sports, drama, TV, fashion, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh Yeah? Like whom?

Posted by: FetusFascist at February 28, 2008 10:26 AM


>>>Like I told you, there is little about the brain we understand.

So neurologists have no clue what they're talking about?

>>>How can a man with no apparent brain matter live, much less function normally? He remains a medical mystery.

Who are you talking about? An actual person, or a metaphorical one?

Terri's brain was so damaged that it could not handle such basic operations as swallowing, much less sight or speech cognition.

Thus, the feeding tube.

So ironically, if one of the kids sent by their cowardly parents to righteously waddle into Terri's room with a glass of water after she'd been taken off her tube had tried to pour it down her throat she would have choked to death.

As for Michael's motives, I don't know. I never spoke to the man. However, were he such a monster as seem to think, why didn't he take that million-dollar offer to divorce Terri, and walk away from his legal custody of her?

Posted by: CHV at February 28, 2008 10:30 AM


CHV,

Yes neurologists know what they're talking about. I said we learn new things about the brain all the time and the more we learn, the more unanswered questions we have. Savants are just one example that leaves us stumped. For a long time autistics were viewed as retarded and hopeless. We now know that some may be highly intelligent. CHildren with CP were thought to be "vegetating" until technology enabled them to communicate.

This man lived in France and I believe is still alive. He's very real. His condition was unknown for years and discovered only when he complained of some neurological symptons, I believe it was numbness in his foot. I'm sorry I don't have a source, I read about him in a news magazine and heard him discussed on a TV program.

Feeding tubes are not unusual and are a safety measure. A quadraplegic, cancer patient, or trauma patient may all have feeding tubes, as well as perfectly intact brains.
As for whether or not Terri would choke is questionable. By one account she could take spoon feedings of soft food.

I don't know Michael's motives either. Taking the money for a divorce would have been a very bad PR move. My theory is he had Terri's parents where he wanted them and would get back at them for all the years of legal struggle and settle other personal scores. That's only my theory and I can't back it up.

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 10:52 AM


"Terri's brain was so damaged that it could not handle such basic operations as swallowing, much less sight or speech cognition"

A nurse who took care of her signed a sworn affidavit that she COULD swallow. The reason she still had a feeding tube was because her husband REFUSED ALL REHABILITATION TREATMENT!!! You really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to this case. This is more than even a "pro-life vs pro-euthanasia" debate. Her husband neglected and even possibly abused her. The cause of her initial injury was never determined and Micheal Schiavo can't even get his story straight on what happened that night.

"why didn't he take that million-dollar offer to divorce Terri, and walk away from his legal custody of her?"

Well, good question obviously because he wanted her dead for some reason, like say maybe he didn't want to take a chance she would regain her ability to communicate. If you are actually interested in learning more about this case I suggest you read "Silent Witness" by Mark Fuhrman.

Posted by: tori at February 28, 2008 10:59 AM


This man lived in France and I believe is still alive. He's very real. His condition was unknown for years and discovered only when he complained of some neurological symptons, I believe it was numbness in his foot. I'm sorry I don't have a source, I read about him in a news magazine and heard him discussed on a TV program.

I believe you might be talking about this guy:

One interesting case involving a person with past hydrocephalus was a 44-year old French man, whose brain had been reduced to little more than a thin sheet of actual brain tissue, due to the buildup of fluid in his skull. The man, who had a shunt inserted into his head to drain away fluid (which was removed when he was 14), went to a hospital after he had been experiencing mild weakness in his left leg.
DWS: All of the black in the middle is water and the brain matter is the rim of white along the outside of the skull. This is a screen shot from a Fox News report.
DWS: All of the black in the middle is water and the brain matter is the rim of white along the outside of the skull. This is a screen shot from a Fox News report.

In July of 2007, Fox News quoted Dr. Lionel Feuillet of Hopital de la Timone in Marseille as saying: "The images were most unusual... the brain was virtually absent."[5] When doctors learned of the man's medical history, they performed a computed tomography (CT) scan and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scan, and were astonished to see "massive enlargement" of the lateral ventricles in the skull. Intelligence tests showed the man had an IQ of 75, below the average score of 100 but not considered mentally retarded or disabled, either.

Remarkably, the man was a married father of two children, and worked as a civil servant, leading a normal life, despite having little brain tissue. "What I find amazing to this day is how the brain can deal with something which you think should not be compatible with life," commented Dr. Max Muenke, a pediatric brain defect specialist at the National Human Genome Research Institute. "If something happens very slowly over quite some time, maybe over decades, the different parts of the brain take up functions that would normally be done by the part that is pushed to the side."[6]


Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 12:39 PM


You can read more about him here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070719.wbrain0719/BNStory/Science/home

The above that I posted was from Wikipedia...here is the link to that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocephalus

Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 12:41 PM


Bethany,

Thank you so much for finding and posting it. This is indeed the case I heard of and didn't have a clue as to how to find and source it.
Incredible isn't it? What would be said if his open skull was seen in an autopsy chamber by an ME who had no idea of this man's history? Most likely that his condition was incompatible with life and there was certainly no possibility of normal function. The man had at best, if he had managed to be "kept alive" spent his life vegetating.
As I said Bethany, we still cannot understand or explain savants, as well as mental illness, genius, or the "6th sense"(intuition) to name just a few.

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 1:00 PM


One more argument that only an idiot would come up with. A horse or dog would have never been allowed to get to the state Schiavo was in. What does a perfectly healthy horse or dog have to do with someone who was an oblivious vegetable? Are antichoicers just not ABLE to come up with arguments which do NOT make them look ridiculous?

Posted by: TexasRed at February 28, 2008 1:16 PM



One more argument that only an idiot would come up with. A horse or dog would have never been allowed to get to the state Schiavo was in. What does a perfectly healthy horse or dog have to do with someone who was an oblivious vegetable? Are antichoicers just not ABLE to come up with arguments which do NOT make them look ridiculous?

I guess not, Iva. I guess we just can't come up with anything other an idiotic posts, so I don't know why you bother talking to us. Obviously, you are much more intelligent than we are. So I guess instead of stressing about how idiotic we are (because I know this must be tiring for you, having to deal with such morons), maybe you could go spend your time discussing the subject with real intellectuals, such as yourself! I think we might possibly be able to make it without you.

Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 1:23 PM


If Terrys situation had been 'left up go god' then she wouldnt have ever been revived and put on 'life' support. 'God' INTENDED her to die years ago. Man is the one who screwed up.

Posted by: TexasRed at February 28, 2008 1:27 PM


TR,

Terri was not on life support. The late actor Christopher Reeve spent 11 years on life support.
I wonder if he felt someone "screwed-up" putting him on it. He too was resuscitated. He always had the choice to discontinue his life support but didn't. I wonder why.

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 1:33 PM



If Terrys situation had been 'left up go god' then she wouldnt have ever been revived and put on 'life' support. 'God' INTENDED her to die years ago. Man is the one who screwed up.

1.) Her name was "Terri".
2.) She never was on "life support"
3.) Yes, man screwed up, when they denied her food and water

Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 1:34 PM


I guess not, Iva. I guess we just can't come up with anything other an idiotic posts, so I don't know why you bother talking to us. Obviously, you are much more intelligent than we are. So I guess instead of stressing about how idiotic we are (because I know this must be tiring for you, having to deal with such morons), maybe you could go spend your time discussing the subject with real intellectuals, such as yourself! I think we might possibly be able to make it without you.


Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 1:23 PM
*******************************
I enjoy being reminded. And your 'guesses' show again that you'd rather make up lies than deal with reality ... Im sure you would much rather NOT be reminded that your antichoice 'arguments' really arent that impressive and are frequently just plain idiotic. Its much more secure and reassuring to hold onto each other, keep your fingers in your ears, and pretend to each other that youre really terribly 'clever'. I point out how flimsy your position really is and remind you that abortion is never going to be illegal in the US again. You dont have any intelligent rational arguments on your side of the discussion.

Posted by: TexasRed at February 28, 2008 1:55 PM


TR,

Terri was not on life support. The late actor Christopher Reeve spent 11 years on life support.
I wonder if he felt someone "screwed-up" putting him on it. He too was resuscitated. He always had the choice to discontinue his life support but didn't. I wonder why.


Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 1:33 PM
****************
If being force fed wasnt life support then what was it? Reeve was mentally alert up until he died. HE was still 'there' regardless of his body. He could communicate. He could interact. He could let those around him know what he thought and felt. Sciavo was an oblivious mound of atrophying flesh.

Posted by: TexasRed at February 28, 2008 1:59 PM


Looking throughout history you will notice that it is one name, one case, one indident that changes everything. One Rosa Parks. Should we have ignored her? One Norma McCreavey. One Dred Scott.

The point we have made Terri the poster child because somebody had to be the poster child. We use a handful of aborted babies on posters to represent the "REST" of the unseen, unknown aborted children.

We can't, no we WON'T let Terri go, because she is not just one dead person, she is our future.

Posted by: mk at February 28, 2008 8:10 AM
**************************
So youre trying to compare Schiavo with Dred Scott and Rosa Parks? Again - how idiotic. No, Terri is NOT 'our future' - not unless you think YOURE going to be a vegetable at some point in time. If so, then make your wishes known NOW. Write it down, make sure everyone knows that you want to keep your body alive no matter what, no matter what shape its in. I personally dont view that as "living". But its your choice if you think youre going to become the vegetable.

Posted by: TexasRed at February 28, 2008 2:03 PM


If Terrys situation had been 'left up go god' then she wouldnt have ever been revived and put on 'life' support. 'God' INTENDED her to die years ago. Man is the one who screwed up.

1.) Her name was "Terri".
2.) She never was on "life support"
3.) Yes, man screwed up, when they denied her food and water

Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 1:34 PM
***********************
'God' said otherwise.

Posted by: TexasRed at February 28, 2008 2:05 PM


One more argument that only an idiot would come up with. A horse or dog would have never been allowed to get to the state Schiavo was in. What does a perfectly healthy horse or dog have to do with someone who was an oblivious vegetable? Are antichoicers just not ABLE to come up with arguments which do NOT make them look ridiculous?

You're so right Tex. I mean, how do we even know that that IS Terri? How do we know it's not blow up doll or a robot? Has anyone authenticated her photo? She could be anyone!

Everyone...yoohoo! Texas Red thinks we look...wait for it...

Ridiculous!

Imagine that!?!?!?

Posted by: mk at February 28, 2008 2:37 PM


If being force fed wasnt life support then what was it? Reeve was mentally alert up until he died. HE was still 'there' regardless of his body. He could communicate. He could interact. He could let those around him know what he thought and felt. Sciavo was an oblivious mound of atrophying flesh.

Hey, MK, based on TR's logic, since my newborn babies are not really that aware of their surroundings...I guess that means when I'm breastfeeding them I'm force feeding them. Cause obviously, if they could talk and be aware enough to speak, they would say, "PLEASE DON'T FEED ME!"

Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 3:13 PM


The Terri Schiavo case did teach us one thing - that liberals support execution by dehydration. As an opponent of the death penalty, I don't support it in any way, but the Schiavo case showed us that liberals support the death penalty if the prisoners are denied water over a period of two weeks, which, they claim, results in a euphoric death.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at February 28, 2008 3:55 PM


Bethany, these pro-aborts seem to worship intelligence. Not that there's anything wrong with one of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit, but the notion that people only have worth if they possess a certain amount of intelligence is pretty disgusting.

This seems to be a decent way of determining how a pro-abort assigns value to life. The unborn possess the least intellect, so they are the most useless to the pro-aborts. Next we have mentally ill and disabled people. Next, babies and old people. Then children. Then middle-aged people. Finally, to the pro-aborts, the most valuable life is a young adult, aged 25 to 35 or so.

Considering the pro-aborts are almost all extremely selfish, I think it also goes without saying that sex appeal has a great deal to do with how much worth they assign to different people. That goes right along with age, of course.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at February 28, 2008 4:06 PM


TR,

Christopher Reeve was only alive and functioning because of technology and around the clock caretakers and a very devoted wife. He also seemed a man to greatly value his life despite some very challenging circumstances. How can anyone with a disability value their life?

Its possible Terri also was aware of and understood her surroundings and communicated as best she could. We cannot know for certain she didn't.

When working with comatose patients, we often disagreed among ourselves if a patient's movement was purposeful or not, or if the patient was responding to our voices. It can be a very subjective observation and who can say for certain?

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 4:23 PM


>>>A nurse who took care of her signed a sworn affidavit that she COULD swallow.

I don't believe her, nor do I believe that Terri was capable of any sort of external communication. Her autopsy results say this was not possible as her brain was half-liquidated.

>>>The reason she still had a feeding tube was because her husband REFUSED ALL REHABILITATION TREATMENT!!! You really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to this case.

I wouldn't call myself an expert on Terri's medical condition, no. Are you? Nevertheless, I am intelligent enough to consult multiple sources on her case, meaning those outside of heavily slanted web sites set up by Terri's family which call Michael Schaivo a murderer, Adolf Hitler, et al.

>>>Her husband neglected and even possibly abused her.

There is zero evidence to back this up. Only hearsay from Terri's family, and innuendo.

>>>Well, good question obviously because he wanted her dead for some reason, like say maybe he didn't want to take a chance she would regain her ability to communicate.

Based on what evidence? Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen.

>>>If you are actually interested in learning more about this case I suggest you read "Silent Witness" by Mark Fuhrman.

Oh, please. Fuhrman is a joke.


Posted by: CHV at February 28, 2008 5:10 PM


I don't believe her, nor do I believe that Terri was capable of any sort of external communication. Her autopsy results say this was not possible as her brain was half-liquidated.

Please read the 12:39 post

Posted by: Bethany at February 28, 2008 5:30 PM


Terri should be elected president of the NRLC.

Posted by: SoMG at February 28, 2008 5:44 PM


CHV,

You can believe whatever you choose but I wouldn't brush off the nurse's observations or the possiblity that Terri had brain function.
What would the nurse have to gain by perjuring herself? Bethany's 12:39PM post defies all logic and explanation. This was a man functioning normally. Do you think an ME doing an autopsy on this man would agree this was a brain compatible with life, much less function? Also CHV, how does one explain savants? We can't because we have limited understanding and knowledge of how the brain works.

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 6:06 PM


Far too much anecdotal drivel here. Too, too much sentimentality. Argue, argue, everyone has an opinion; expression thereof may be cathartic, but you resolve nothing. Vegetative states are a fact of life! I'm wasting my time.

Posted by: Drew at February 28, 2008 6:25 PM


CHV,

The neglect allegations are from MULTIPLE witnesses who worked at different hospitals that Terri was in. They did not know each other or have anything to gain by accusing Micheal Schiavo of this. He refused ANY and ALL treatments, including ANY STIMULATION at all. He told the nurses to keep the blinds shut on the windows at all times so she couldn't look out the window and made them throw away any flowers or gifts brought to her. Wow. He's so loving.

Before her collapse, she told multiple witnesses that she wanted to get a divorce from her husband because he was overly controlling, emotionally abusive and a deadbeat. What a surprise as that is how he acted afterwards too.

Why don't you ask yourself, why if he was such a "devoted" husband did he refuse to allow her to get any treatment, rehabilitation or even simple stimulation?

I know it's hard to for you to think that the MSM (not biased at all) would possibly misconstrue the facts. I mean real smart people know that if it's printed in the newspaper it must be true!!

Posted by: tori at February 28, 2008 7:33 PM


This argument about Terri's condition is beside the point.

Right-to-lifers would favor keeping her body alive EVEN IF she were in a persistant vegetative state. Even if she had no brain at all.

Posted by: SoMG at February 28, 2008 8:02 PM


It does not surprise me at all that right-to-life nurses would lie (or commit perjury) about Terri Schiavo's condition in order to keep her body alive.

A question for right-to-lifers: wouldn't you lie in order to save a human life? All true right-to-lifers would. If you refused to lie in order to save a human life, you'd be complicit in the subsequent death.

Posted by: SoGM at February 28, 2008 8:12 PM


Oops--used the wrong name--that's SoMG.

Posted by: SoMG at February 28, 2008 8:14 PM


SOMG,

How do you know the nurses were right to life?

Maybe, just maybe they were medical professionals giving their professional opinions and observations.

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 9:20 PM


Mary, do you know the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary? Go look it up and you'll see.

Posted by: SoMG at February 28, 2008 9:35 PM


SOMG,

How do you know, did you already check?

Posted by: Mary at February 28, 2008 10:19 PM


Oh yea, the witnesses must have been activist pro-lifers... they obviously just came forward to help the cause... there is just no other explanation for why someone would possibly bring evidence forward that puts the devoted loving husband in a bad light. Obviously, because someone who wants his wife dead has pure motives and it couldn't possibly be true that he might have some no so nice reasons to want her dead. Gosh.

Posted by: tori at February 28, 2008 10:35 PM


Tori,

SOMG can settle this once and for all by telling us how he/she knows for a fact these nurses were right to life.

Posted by: Mary at February 29, 2008 7:43 AM


Believe it not, Terri Schiavo recieved less due process than the status of a kitchen appliance in probate court.

Terri recieved process, but she didn't recieve "Due Process" (Fundamental Fairness).

one lawyer who studied the case said that the Federal Judge who got the case ruled...

That Terri Schiavo WAS NOT entitled to be free from cruel and unusual punishment or treatment because she was not a convicted criminal.

That was utterly mindblogging.

The courts were unable or unwilling to give Terri "Due Process" that would have treated her AS WELL as we would have treated a person guilty of mass murder.

For this reason, the Schiavo case was truly a travesty of justice.

Congresss did a very honarable thing by giving Terri the Due Process Right that all death row inmates get - The right to take her case to Federal Court.

I think one can see the fundamental unfairness at work here:

People Guilty of mass murder - More Legal Protection.

Innocent disabled people - Less Legal Protection.

Posted by: James at February 29, 2008 1:21 PM


Kristen, It was not a nurse who told Terri, it was her attorney, Barbara Weller.

John Sipos sent me his interview with her, and my son posted it on youtube with his permission. I had it on my blog until just recently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KPCsUBr6X4

If you remember, Congress had subpoenaed Michael and Terri to come and testify before them. Michael never showed up, and they removed Terri's feeding tube that day. Terri died. Congress never did anything at all about MS ignoring them.

So now, they threaten baseball players, and have the judicial dept indict baseball players... and I ask...with what authority? If they did nothing to MS, what right do they have to threaten any other US citizen?

Jill, excellent article!

Posted by: WI Catholic at March 7, 2008 9:33 AM