New Stanek poll: What - or who - caused the Haitian earthquake?

poll%20graphic%20correct%20size.bmpI have a new poll question up:

There have been a couple eyebrow-raising opinions on the genesis of the Haitian earthquake. What - or who - do you think caused it?

The previous poll demonstrated a vast difference of opinion between how President Obama thinks he did his first year and how you think he did, even among our International friends, who tend to poll more liberally here....

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Click on the map to enlarge to find your own brightly colored flag...

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As always, make comments to either this or last week's poll here, not on the Vizu website.


Comments:

I don't know. I'm not God. Only He really knows.

But, if I were the surviving Haitians, I'd be crying out to the God of Israel in thanks for being saved from that horrible death, and praying for the nation of Haiti for forgiveness because the majority of Haitians practice voodoo (alongside their Catholic "faith", btw). I would pray that the nation turns to the God of Israel and obeys Him. I would hope that every one of them that have heard a missionary speak of Jesus and his salvation, healing and strength will call upon His Name now. I really hope they open their eyes and do that.

But, apparently, our wonderful President Obama again thinks he's better than God and the Haitians can rely on him instead of God. This was very interesting, and very telling. (sickening, actually):

Obama: “I want to speak directly to the people of Haiti, you have suffered for a long time and to have to deal with this new disaster will make you wonder why God has abandoned Haiti. I’m going to tell you that we won’t forget you, we won’t abandon you. The United States are on your side, the world is, you’ve endured a history of slavery and your faith has been unwavering” said Obama during the speech.

momento24.com/en/2010/01/14/obama-haiti-is-a-priority-for-the-u-s/

See? God abandoned Haiti, but Obama won't. UGH, UGH, UGH!!!!

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 9:31 AM


Draw nigh to God and He will draw night unto you. Forget where in the Bible that is found. God is always faithful. It is man who leaves God, not God who leaves man.

Honestly, I think we are in the end times. I think we will see more and more earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, famine etc... I think God is trying to wake up the people on this planet with all these catastrophes. Sometimes people will only turn to God when there is disaster (i'm thinking about how after 9/11 everyone was praying and saying 'God bless America!' and now you can't pray or say that without fear of a lawsuit from the ACLU)

God is not willing that any should perish and go to hell. He calls softly to each human heart. But soon man will hear God's final call...and if man rejects God it will then be too late.

Posted by: Sydney M at January 17, 2010 9:40 AM


Plate Tectonics

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at January 17, 2010 9:43 AM


Marie - I'm not questioning you on that quote - I found it on that website as well - but have you found it anywhere else? I haven't found anybody else who has that quote, and in fact, I keep finding a different text of what he said:

http://traceyricksfoster.wordpress.com/2010/01/14/remarks-by-president-barack-obama-on-recovery-efforts-in-haiti/

http://mobile.latimes.com/inf/infomo?view=page8&feed:a=latimes_1min&feed:c=topstories&feed:i=51638653&nopaging=1

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/01/14/obama-pledges-100-million-in-aid-to-haiti/

http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2010/01/haitis_survivors_losing_hope_a.html

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at January 17, 2010 10:39 AM


Very clearly it's not God. There is no Biblical justification for saying that God wanted the earthquake to occur.

There is no Biblical justification for those who say God's just sitting up in Heaven going, "A-Ha! I got those Haitians. They got what they deserve for being an unGodly nation."

That's where Pat Robertson has it completely wrong.

Post-Christ, we live under a new covenant where God, who used to strike down those who live in such horribly sinful conditons (see Sodom and Gomorrah), allowed the sacrifice of His son Jesus Christ in our place. Now, instead of judgment coming in the form of slaughtering nations, it comes later,after our death, and the end result is either eternal life and fellowship with God or eternal death and separation from God forever.

What caused the earthquake? We did.

When God made the earth and the heavens and everything therein, it was "very good." But, just as our bodies don't function to their capacity because sin has broken them down over the years (i.e. we no longer can live as old as Methusala or other Old Testament people who lived hundreds of years) the world around us is also suffering the breakdown that results as a consequence of sin.

The important thing is not who we blame this earthquake on and who we get mad at for it.

The important thing is how we react to it.

Do we do what we can to sacrifice and provide help and support for the Haitian people? Do we show them the love of Christ both through spiritual support and practical needs?

Do we reconsider the importance of making sure the world knows about the love of God -- especially in third-world places where Christ is not preached as He is here in the US?

Those are the questions we should be asking instead of, as Pat Robetson did, figuring out who gets assigned the blame.

We ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and, apart from Christ, none of us our righteous.

Posted by: Steven Ertelt at January 17, 2010 10:41 AM


Clarification -- In President Obama's address to the people of Haiti, he didn't state that "God has abandoned Haiti." The quote on the Memento 24 site must have been a retranslation of a Spanish translation of Obama's remarks. The original video is available on www.whitehouse.gov, and here's what Obama actually said in that section:

"Finally, I want to speak directly to the people of Haiti. Few in the world have endured the hardships that you have known. Long before this tragedy, daily life itself was often a bitter struggle. And after suffering so much for so long, to face this new horror must cause some to look up and ask, have we somehow been forsaken?

To the people of Haiti, we say clearly, and with conviction, you will not be forsaken; you will not be forgotten. In this, your hour of greatest need, America stands with you. The world stands with you. We know that you are a strong and resilient people. You have endured a history of slavery and struggle, of natural disaster and recovery. And through it all, your spirit has been unbroken and your faith has been unwavering."

Video:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/president-obama-updates-haitian-earthquake-relief-efforts

Transcript:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-recovery-efforts-haiti

Posted by: J. Todd Leffar at January 17, 2010 10:42 AM


What Gerard said at 9:43am

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at January 17, 2010 10:44 AM


Mama Mia, I can't believe the question for this thread!!! Who or what caused an earthquake??? As one of the other commenters rationally pointed out - it's called plate tectonics. Helloo??!!!

Posted by: Artemis at January 17, 2010 10:54 AM


Went to Mass and heard a priest reference the evangelist who attributed the earthquake to Haitians pact with devil in exchange for freedom from France. The priest contrasted the evangelist with God who is merciful (without knowing that in the same interview, the evangelist requested his listeners to pray for the Haitians and send aid, because they are suffering.)
Yours truly is often in the odd position... having to defend the actual faith of Catholicism to people who see the shortcomings of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, for example, while on the other hand, admonishing this priest and others to pay attention to what Pat Robertson actually DOES, though he is known to say politically incorrect things on occasion.
Upon searching, I found that Pat Robertson's idea about the origins of Haitian independence were not self generated. Whether an actual pact with the devil was involved could not be ascertained from this info. The idea comes from a Voodoo ceremony said to have marked a meeting of people fighting for Haitian freedom at Bois-Caïman near Cap-Haïtien. This idea is repeated by Haitians as well as Christian missionaries who have served in Haiti. Though the claim can't be established without doubt, we can be certain that Pat Robertson didn't make it up.
Also, in asking people to pray for Haitians, it certainly appears that Pat Robertson does NOT believe, as mentioned above by Obama, that God has abandoned Haiti.


Posted by: pharmer at January 17, 2010 10:58 AM


I did not know our President actually said that God had abandoned Haiti! And he would not. As if Obama or the USA is kinder than God.....

But this whole thing brings up many issues that believers need to understand about the workings of the LORD.

I have to disagree with the brother who said that God doesn't send disasters. The nature of the New Covenant is about the fullness of forgiveness and the indwelling of God forever inside ordinary people.

But God has in the past, and will continue to bring bad things and good things into people's lives in order to first, get them to repent, and then to teach them His ways, and discipline them.

Discipline only becomes judgment when you refuse to repent, and then if you die outside the LORD, you go to Hell forever. This is the final judgment.

I agree that God isn't up in Heaven gleeful over dying Haitians, but the broad intentions of His heart are for the Haitians to be shook up and to turn to Him.

If you think this is severe, then consider how long eternity is, in Hell. This puts things into perspective.

Posted by: Todd at January 17, 2010 11:09 AM


“I want to speak directly to the people of Haiti, you have suffered for a long time and to have to deal with this new disaster will make you wonder

why God has abandoned Haiti.

I’m going to tell you that we won’t forget you, we won’t abandon you."

B.O.

--------------------------------------------------------

Since that recent infusion of totusterone the Teleprompter of the United States (TOTUS) has become arrogant and dismissive, even derissive.

Haitians, please consult with everrant Jeremiah Wright or B.O.'s dearly departed grandmother about who can NOT be relied upon.

You will find Wright and granny under B.O.'s campaign bus.

Even though B.O. claims to be a 'devout', even 'committed' christian, his understanding of the 'book', his view of GOD, and his misbehavior should give you pause for serious consideration before you place any value in anything B.O. says, particularly concerning GOD.

GOD has NOT abandonded Haiti or the Haitian people.

HE has purchased your freedom and your salvation with the life and the blood of HIS SON JESUS.

GOD would not squander that priceless investment by selling short and abondoning the very ones whose liberty HE purchased at such a dear price.

Put your trust in GOD, not in the United States of America and surely not in POTUS or TOTUS.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at January 17, 2010 11:15 AM


What a silly question.

Posted by: Jenny Z at January 17, 2010 11:21 AM


Post-Christ, we live under a new covenant where God, who used to strike down those who live in such horribly sinful conditons (see Sodom and Gomorrah), allowed the sacrifice of His son Jesus Christ in our place. Now, instead of judgment coming in the form of slaughtering nations, it comes later,after our death, and the end result is either eternal life and fellowship with God or eternal death and separation from God forever.

Posted by: Steven Ertelt at January 17, 2010 10:41 AM

Steven,

Could you please quote some bible verses that support that? Your post was very interesting, but I was always under the assumption that the only thing God ever promised NOT to do again out of His wrath was send another flood to destroy the entire earth.

I am also under the assumption that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

I am also under the assumption that God is in control of everything in heaven and on earth. So, if this didn't come from God, are you saying that someone else is in control?

And, how exactly did humans cause this earthquake?

An excellent program that you may be intersted in watching is by the History Channel entitled, "Life after People". It's an eye-opener to those who believe that humans are destroying the earth.

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 11:39 AM


Uh...the earth's tectonics shifted.

Haiti is not being punished. They did nothing wrong.

Posted by: Vannah at January 17, 2010 11:42 AM


Posted by: J. Todd Leffar at January 17, 2010 10:42 AM

Clarification -- In President Obama's address to the people of Haiti, he didn't state that "God has abandoned Haiti." The quote on the Memento 24 site must have been a retranslation of a Spanish translation of Obama's remarks. The original video is available on www.whitehouse.gov, and here's what Obama actually said in that section:

"And after suffering so much for so long, to face
this new horror must cause some

to look up

and ask, have we somehow been forsaken?"

----------------------------------------------------

Re-clarification/transmogrification:

Just why would 'some look up' and to whom would they be asking 'have we somehow been forsaken'?

I can understand how the vagaries of on the fly translating, colored by the interpreters own biases might produce this apparent discrepency between what B.O. actually said in English and what the 'tranducer' understood in Spanish.

But unless you want us to believe that B.O. was referring to the news and relief aircraft circuling overhead, then TOTUS's remarks have to be understood as a not so veiled reference to God, however you understand/misunderstand God to be, and B.O.'s presumption that God could be seen as having abandoned Haitians.

B.O. is as clueless about GOD as TOTUS.

I do give B.O. credit for the expeditious marshalling of US assets at home and abroad to assist the Hatian people in their recovery and rebuilding efforts.

Maybe United States steel mills and iron workers will donate some rebar and expertise to re-construction efforts.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at January 17, 2010 11:45 AM


Marie,

Um, see the New Testament. :)

More specifically: Hebrews chapter 9...

15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

(From verse 26) But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

So judgment comes AFTER death. Death on earth, such as via an earthuake, is NOT God's judgment. That misses the entire point that the final judment is eternal, not temporal. It is spiritual, not physical.

Thus, those who say God's struck down Haiti via an earthquake for its sin miss the entire reason for Christ's death and resurrection.

And God is the same yesterday, today and forever. His plan to allow Christ as the offering for our sin doesn't change that.

No, no one but God is in control, but in our free will, our sinful choices has ramifications. God could easily have forced Adam and Eve to not fall and, therefore, for us not to sin either. But that takes away from God's desire for us to willingly love and serve Him.

That we sin and it causes problems doesn't take the control away from God. The eternal judgment will always be his, not ours.

Posted by: Steven Ertelt at January 17, 2010 11:58 AM


Posted by: pharmer at January 17, 2010 10:58 AM

"Yours truly is often in the odd position... having to defend the actual faith of Catholicism to people who see the shortcomings of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, for example, while on the other hand, admonishing this priest and others to pay attention to what Pat Robertson actually DOES, though he is known to say politically incorrect things on occasion."

-------------------------------------------------

Pharmer,

I appreciate your consistency.

Robertson is at the age where he can say what he wants without fretting about repercussions and it seems he has not yet relinquished control of the operations of his network.

I don't know if there is anyone who has the moxie to suggest there are some things he should not say publicly.

I have to admit I cringed when Robertson said several years ago the US should have removed Hugo Chavez from power in Venezuela.

It was great fodder for the 'left'.

Even thought the premise was correct the suggested resolution was questionable.

The subject of 'curses' is a whole nother topic.

The late Derek Prince wrote a couple of books on the topic based on over 50 years of research and experience as an international preacher, teacher and evangelist.

Curses can be broken, but the blessing of God is forever.

yor bro ken


Posted by: kbhvac at January 17, 2010 12:07 PM


I tell my children the blessing of God is like an umbrella. As long as you stay under the umbrella things go pretty well.

If you choose to leave the covering of the umbrella God is not obligated to relocate the umbrella to accomodate you, though HE may choose to do so, for a season or you may get rained on immediately.

But I am still thankful that GOD causes the rain to fall on both the just and the unjust.

Sometimes it takes 'revelation' to distinguish between rain as a blessing or as a not blessing.

Walking in the SPIRIT will ensure you stay under the umbrella, but it does not guarantee that you will not experience adversity.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at January 17, 2010 12:16 PM


Posted by: J. Todd Leffar at January 17, 2010 10:42 AM

J. Todd,

Although you may have thought that was an inccorect translation, look up forsaken in a thesaurus and abandoned is listed.

And, when he said, ..."must cause some to look up and ask, have we somehow been forsaken?

To the people of Haiti, we say clearly, and with conviction, you will not be forsaken; you will not be forgotten. In this, your hour of greatest need, America stands with you. The world stands with you."

So I ask you, J. Todd, who would the people of Haiti be looking "up" to and asking that? Did Obama say that they have not been forsaken (abandoned) by whoever they were "looking up to and asking"? No, but he did say HE would not forsake (abandon) them. Why didn't he say God has not forsaken them?

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 12:26 PM


"So judgment comes AFTER death. Death on earth, such as via an earthuake, is NOT God's judgment. That misses the entire point that the final judment is eternal, not temporal. It is spiritual, not physical.

Steven,

Judgment comes AFTER death, agreed. But you did not touch on the God's wrath and anger. Ezekiel had visions of things that are going to happen in the last days, before judgment, i.e, earthquakes (a really big one!) will be one of them. Again, before judgment. I wasn't equating judgment with wrath.

Perhaps you are equating Christ's forgiveness for those that call upon Him with those who don't? Forgiveness is out there for all, but not all accept it.

Do you believe that nations that fear and glorify God are blessed? If so, what about the one's that do not?

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 12:50 PM


TY, Ken.
I gathered some more info and posted it all together on my blog.

I for one was not upset with Pat Robertson thinking out loud about Chavez. Libs went NUTS, and that was great fun to see.

It's the religion that keeps us from actually doing all the stuff that comes to mind ;-).

If lefties had any brains, they'd be happy about the religious restrictions to which we voluntarily submit.

Posted by: pharmer at January 17, 2010 12:50 PM


Marie,

Obviously great and terrible things will occur in the last days, but I've never read anything in the Bible to refute the long-held Christian principle that eternal judgment comes after physical death. Focusing on the last days still takes the focus off the eternal and places it on the temporal/physical.

No, I do not believe that any nation is more or less blessed than any other.

The Bible makes it very clear that our salvation or eternal damnation is dependent on our acceptance or rejection of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection as taking the place of our sins.

I see nothing in the Bible that says salvation or eternal judgment is dependent on residency.

Is a Christian who lives in Haiti or China or North Korea less of a Christian than those who live in "Christian" nations like the US? Are non-Christians who live in those nations more anti-God than non-Christians here? I'm hard pressed to find any Biblical justification for answering those questions with a yes.

In seems to me that Jesus himself rejected the notion of people living in certain places being more or less blessed with the parable of the good Samaritan. Samaritans were considered less than perfect in the eyes of the Jews yet Jesus went out of his way to talk up the Christian actions of the Samaritan who helped his brother and talked down the Jew who did not.

Our focus should be on Christ and accepting His death and then living in the way He would want. Not on which nation is more or less blessed or which people are more or less deserving of God's wrath or forgiveness.

Keep in mind that the earthquake destroyed churches and killed Christians. What did they do to deserve supposed pre-judgment wrath?

Again, ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Not just Haitians who practice voodoo or residents of New Orleans or (insert another group victimzed by a natural disaster).

The final answer to What or who caused the Haitian earthquake is: It doesn't matter and the real question is have we accepted Christ as savior.

I gotta run, this is probably my last post on this... Have a great day everyone.

Posted by: Steven Ertelt at January 17, 2010 1:09 PM


"Plate Tectonics"
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at January 17, 2010 9:43 AM

Ditto.


Posted by: Janet at January 17, 2010 1:11 PM


This is the dumbest weekend question ever. Plate tectonics ftl.

Posted by: xalisae at January 17, 2010 1:37 PM


The Bible warns us that in the last days there will be signs everywhere of Christ's imminent return. One of these signs is an increase in earthquake activity. "Matthew 24:5-8 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains."

In fact, over the last few centuries of recording earthquakes there has been an almost ten fold increase in the number of eathquakes in this first decade of the millenium. (http://www.earth.webecs.co.uk/index.htm)

Like in childbirth, the pains will become more frequent and more intense and this is now being physically demonstrated in nature. Only the foolhearty will ignore these signs.

God is trying to speak to us through this Haitian earthquake and every single one of us needs to be ready, to be waiting, to expect that Christ is coming back. None of us is exempt.....not the poor, not the rich, not the believer, not the unbeliever.

He may come in the form of our own sudden and unexpected death, as in this earthquake, or He may come back once and for all in a single, final moment of time.

God is sovereign over all things, nothing happens without his permission or apart from his knowledge however, this is sure: "Romans 8:37-39
37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Here's the answer:

"Hebrews 3:7-18
7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.'
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' " 12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first."

Posted by: Phil Schembri is Hisman at January 17, 2010 1:59 PM


(Sheesh. Didn't know I had to explain every unwritten aspect of my comments, lest they be misunderstood.)

If someone's going to be quoted, I prefer that it be clear exactly what they said, and that they not be misquoted. That's what I intended to do.

Yes, I know that Obama's referring to God in both the re-translation and the actual transcription. In the former is a declarative statement that God has forsaken Haiti. In the latter, there's the acknowledgment that people may question if God has forsaken Haiti under these circumstances.

(And that questioning is one of the many natural human reactions to pain and suffering. When my wife and I suffered our first miscarriage, I held on strong to my Catholic faith, but struggled to figure out why we had to suffer in that way.)


FWIW:
a) I never defended Obama's arrogance about stating that while you may question God, you shouldn't question the US.

b) I didn't vote for Obama, and I don't like the direction he's taking us.

c) I'll see y'all at the March for Life this Friday!

Posted by: J. Todd Leffar at January 17, 2010 2:01 PM


We can say Plate Tectonics and that is what we understand scientifically. The question is did God design Plate Tectonics and does He use them for His Purposes? Or are earthquakes just random events? The question I believe is refering to Pat Robertson's remarks and their theological implications. It could be rephrased this way:

If God is all powerful, and is by nature a loving God, why does He allow calamaties and suffering in the Earth?

In Deut 28, God tells the children of Israel that if they listen to Him and His Word and do what He says, all of these blessings will come upon them. And it goes on to detail a long list of blessings. Alternately, He says if they don't listen to Him or don't obey Him, there is a long list of curses that they would endure.

The Old Testament is a type and shadow of what we experience in the New Testament. So what I believe the question is asking is that if you disobey God, might you expect Him to bring correction in the form of some calamaty? It would be similar to what the Egyptians experienced when they refused to heed God's command to let Israel leave.

Has God taught anyone a lesson by allowing some misfortune to befall them when they've been disobedient? If it happens on a personal level, might it happen on a national level?

Just askin'

Posted by: Ed at January 17, 2010 2:05 PM


I am going with tectonic plates on this one.

http://www.seismo.unr.edu/ftp/pub/louie/class/100/plate-tectonics.html

Posted by: hippie at January 17, 2010 2:08 PM


x- It's not a dumb question. It's one humans have struggled with since the beginning of time. "Why do bad things happen?"

Posted by: Lauren at January 17, 2010 2:26 PM


I think that people are reading way too much into this. The Haitians were struck by an earthquake, earthquakes being natural geographical disasters.

Was New Orleans being punished by Katrina? Was San Francisco being punished by the earthquake that struck it in 1989? What about the Indian Ocean earthquake? Bad things happen. That doesn't mean that it's the end days or 2012, and if the planet got struck by a meteor tomorrow, none of us could do anything about it.

All that we can do is devote our time to helping people, not questioning if their religion brought it upon them.

Posted by: Vannah at January 17, 2010 2:33 PM


Lauren, maybe it's just semantics, but I think there's a difference between asking, "Why did this happen?" and "What/who caused this?" The what/who is specific. The why is often abstract, spiritual, etc.

What caused Jane's death? Cancer. What caused the cancer? Some cells going all crazy. Why did this happen - at all, as well as to her rather than to someone else? Well that's a different question entirely.

Posted by: Alexandra at January 17, 2010 2:58 PM


@ Marie

"Do you believe that nations that fear and glorify God are blessed? If so, what about the one's that do not?"

Considering America legalized slavery, abortion, segregation, and obliterated the Native Americans, we are the last ones to talk about others making pacts with the Anti-Christ. Have you seen the filth in our media, the celebration of homosexuality? What about our out-of-wedlock birth rate or how Sunday is no longer a day of rest? Our president sees children as a punishment.

How exactly are we glorifying God?

Posted by: Pro-Lif3 at January 17, 2010 3:05 PM


Posted by: Ed at January 17, 2010 2:05 PM

EXACTLY! Great post!

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 3:07 PM


Plate tectonics, more specifically Haiti has a fault running through it and this was the result of action between the North American plate and the Caribbean plate (which the North American plate is attempting to pass under - also known as subduction).
The geology is quite complicated in this area so that's the best and easiest description.
This quake had its epicenter very shallow and close to a densely populated area.

Can God use this to bring the Haitian people closer to Him and to remind the rest of us that we need to do likewise? Absolutely.

Haiti is 80% Catholic but has a strong voodoo element in its society. Voodoo is very demonic and very strong black magic.

God can punish anyone He wants should He want.
Why He would spare America with 1.5 million abortions per year is beyond my understanding, but maybe He will......

Posted by: angel at January 17, 2010 3:10 PM


Pro-Lif3,

We're not.

To answer your question, there's two things:

1. I believe we are living in the end times.

2. I believe that there is a very good reason that the good 'ol US is not mentioned in end-times prophecy.

Now, that being said, I believe that our country is in the beginning stages of having God's blessings to our counry removed. Not only have the birth pains begun around the world, but for our country as well. I believe the Lord is sending a wake-up call to believers and non-believers as well, and it would be very wise at this stage in the game to heed His warnings.

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 3:13 PM


Praying that the people of Haiti turn to God and follow Him. That they see miracles in the devastation, that they feel comfort, safety and the love of Christ from those coming to help, that their country rise up and turn their hearts to Him.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 17, 2010 3:17 PM


Haiti is 80% Catholic but has a strong voodoo element in its society. Voodoo is very demonic and very strong black magic.

And their rituals begin with Catholic prayers...

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 3:17 PM


Carla,

AMEN! Praying that prayer with you!

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 3:19 PM


True, Alexandra, but the "who" question has also been asked since the beginning of time. It's human nature to try to wrap our heads around a catastrophe by looking to clues in religious texts or cultural tradition.

Posted by: Lauren at January 17, 2010 3:25 PM


This is in response to all X, hippie and all the rest who think those of us who believe that God could have a hand in an earthquake are being ignorant and uneducated and generally just being morons.

God made the earth. He did. I get an excellent magazine called Acts and Facts which is FREE and it is written by scientists with Ph.D.'s who explain in issue after issue how nature supports the THEORY of creation and they pick apart argument after argument to show how science does NOT support the THEORY of evolution.

That being said, if God created the earth and created every single person on it, why is it silly to think God controls tectonic plates? I remember watching on Discovery a program where oceanographers were studying the marianna trench and found these rugged vents as if something had burst out of the deep and created these jagged mountains and one evolutionary scientist said something to the affect of "When I see this a world wide flood almost seems plausible."

God created science. He is not at odds with it. HE CREATED IT. He created the scientific laws that govern our universe and certainly He controls them and uses them to accomplish His purpose--which is getting mankind's attention so that they would seek Him and Him alone for their salvation.

Romans 1:20 tells us that nature speaks loudly of its Creator.

Posted by: Sydney M at January 17, 2010 3:35 PM


Here I go!!!

I'm taking the plunge. I am convinced natural disasters are just that, natural disasters. We can read anything we want into them.

Actor Danny Glover thinks earth is PO'd about the Copenhagen summit. Actress Shirley McLaine thinks a California earthquake was the earth telling us to read more, or some nonsense like that. Pat Robertson thinks Haitians made a pact with the devil. Moslems and Christians gave their own religious interpretations to the tsunami. Hawaiians will view a volcanic eruption as a sign from the goddess Pele.
Asteroids, volcanoes, eclipses, and all natural and cosmic events have been viewed as divinely inspired by various dieties since creation. Various people were viewed as being "punished" and other "rewarded by the divine.

Natural disasters always have been and always will be. If one wants to attach some religious significance or interpretation to it, fine. IMHO its a lot of hooey.

Posted by: Mary at January 17, 2010 4:22 PM


"I believe that there is a very good reason that the good 'ol US is not mentioned in end-times prophecy."

Maybe because they didn't know it existed back then?
Unless you believe in prophecy of the Native Americans, or those made after discovery of the Americas. In that case, I don't know what to tell ya.

IMO,
This whole question is so silly. Plate tectonics are natural phenomena and from what I read Haiti was expected to experience an earthquake sometime soon. Unlike Hurricanes though, there's not really a good way to truly prepare for it.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 4:39 PM


Phil and Sydney M.

Can we really be absolutely certain of the history of natural disasters and whether they are increasing or decreasing? People didn't necessarily record them as they were likely just accepted as part of life, or anger of the "gods".
Also people might be decimated and unable to record the event.

How would anyone know of all natural disasters and where and when they occured? There was certainly no way of knowing what was happening on the other side of the world. No TV, radio, newspapers, telegraph, internet. Would mid 17th and 18th century Americans or Europeans been aware of an Asian tsunami or volanic eruption in the Pacific?
How can we know for certain natural disasters are in fact occuring?

Posted by: Mary at January 17, 2010 4:50 PM


Excuse me,

I meant to say can we know for certain natural disasters are in fact increasing.

Posted by: Mary at January 17, 2010 4:54 PM


"I believe that there is a very good reason that the good 'ol US is not mentioned in end-times prophecy."

Maybe because they didn't know it existed back then?
Unless you believe in prophecy of the Native Americans, or those made after discovery of the Americas. In that case, I don't know what to tell ya.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 4:39 PM


PIP,

When you know nothing about biblical prophecy, or who every single word in the bible was inspired by, it only makes you look foolish to make such an absurd comment like that.

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 4:58 PM


It's certainly a "natural geological phenomenon," but God is the creator of the universe and is all powerful. He could have prevented the earthquake from occurring, but decided for His own reason not to. We don't know what that reason is.

If you believe there is a God who created the universe, but do NOT believe that He had control over this situation, than you're a Deist who believes that God created and then walked away.

It would be fascinating to know how many times God has prevented natural disasters from ruining us.

Posted by: alkaline at January 17, 2010 5:01 PM


great post, alkaline!

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 5:10 PM


Marie-

Biblical prophecy is interpreted in different ways, especially books like Revelation. To say otherwise makes you look foolish. I would venture to guess that the writers of the Bible had no knowledge of North or South America.
But you can believe whatever you want. I just tend to believe in reason over rapture.

Catholic perspective:

'No, to my knowledge, there has never been an explicit statement relative to the Rapture. But as we have seen, the Rapture forms part of a particular millennial expectation based on a particular use of biblical texts. Yes, the Church has explicitly rejected both this kind of speculation and this way of interpreting the Scriptures.

The Council of Ephesus (431) denounced it as “a deviation and a fable.” It was denounced again in 1516 at the Fifth Lateran Council. In 1824, the work of Manuel Lacunza (noted above) was placed on the Index of Forbidden Books. In 1941 and 1944, responding to questions from the Archbishop of Santiago, Chile, the Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) again rejected this kind of millennial speculation with explicit reference to the work of Lacunza. As recently as April 22, 1998, with the turn of the millennium approaching, Pope John Paul II warned again against this way of thinking.

In interpreting biblical texts, the Church has stressed that it is essential that we take account of their literary genres since truth is expressed differently in different types of writing (Vatican II: Dei Verbum #12; Catechism of the Catholic Church #110).

In its 1993 document, The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church, the Pontifical Biblical Commission both reaffirmed this (Section I-A) and rejected as inadequate the so-called “fundamentalist” interpretation at play in the Rapture doctrine and scenario (Section I-F).

As John Paul II expressed it on April 22, 1998, “We know that the apocalyptic images of the eschatological discourse about the end of all things should be interpreted in light of their intense symbolism.” It is not language that should be taken literally.'

http://www.americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac1005.asp

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 5:40 PM


PIP,

I believe in what GOD says, not the pope.


Out of curiosity, how long have you been studying bible prophecy?

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 5:53 PM


To answer your question: I minored in Theology. So I did study the subject.

Of course, it was a focus in Catholic theology, obviously the wrong kind.
Rather arrogant of you btw- as if the Pope hasn't looked into the subject or studied it hard at all. Just a guess, but he's probably studied theology much longer and with more intensity than any of us frequenting this blog.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 6:00 PM


OK, so who or what caused Hurricane Katrina in addition to the various devastating hurricanes that have hit the American coast and Caribbean nations since recorded history and who only knows how long before? I saw a couple interviewed on TV who actually believe that their seeing the ghost of a confederate soldier is what spared their home in a S.Carolina hurricane.

How about tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, ice storms, blizzards, severe thunderstorms, and massive forest fires usually triggered by lightening to name only a few?

Sorry, but this singling out Haiti is absolute nonsense.

Posted by: Mary at January 17, 2010 6:02 PM


Mary,

It boggles the mind.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 6:06 PM


A major tornado hits Moore, OK every year. God must really hate that place.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 6:14 PM


A major tornado hits Moore, OK every year. God must really hate that place.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 6:14 PM

PIP,

God controls all, and has His own reasons for allowing things to happen. I believe it's to teach people things. When things happen, we can either blame it on Him and despise Him for it, or give Him glory and praise and thank Him for knowing more than we do.

Last year my house burned down. I lost everything I had except the clothes on my back. Not one time did I cry out to God asking Him why He punished me. Instead, I thanked Him for sparing life, and knew....KNEW He would be by my side and bring me through it better than ever.

He taught me many lessons through the last year...one's I will never forget. I am so much in a better place with Him than I was before.

I love God and I thank Him for that situation.

Have you asked the people in Moore, OK if they blame God or if they have the same mindset that I did after the fire? Or, are you just spouting nonsense to stir the pot again?

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 6:30 PM


Most people in Moore, OK think that tornadoes happen when hot and cold air systems collide in the right places and the right times, and they happen to live in a place where it happens often. I can't account for the occasional "we deserved it" or "it was a lesson" methodology. Not that you can't learn from natural disasters- but the idea that it was simply some 'lesson' is kind of repulsive to me.

I do often wonder why people continue to live there despite all of the wreckage that seems to be wrought there year after year, but that's a personal choice.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 6:38 PM


Not that you can't learn from natural disasters- but the idea that it was simply some 'lesson' is kind of repulsive to me.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 6:38 PM

Of course it's repulsive to you! You believe "natural disasters" just happen due to scientific phenomenon. You don't believe that God controls all things, hence you won't "get it" until you "get Him".

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 6:45 PM


Dear Prettyinpink, Thanks for your post! You miniored in theology? I have a masters of theology. What does the Caticisim of the catholic church have to say concerning salvation? I'd be intrested in your take on this topic. My email is joltingjacksandefur@gmail.com RJ

Posted by: RJ Sandefur at January 17, 2010 6:51 PM


You are right Marie. I believe most natural occurrences have natural causes. I think that the belief of God being a direct hand in the suffering and death (and them praising him for it) is beyond repulsive. God's 'lessons' and 'punishments' through natural occurrences notwithstanding, I can guarantee you can measure tectonic plate movement; I don't think there is a similar measurement for testing God's wrath.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 6:55 PM



I have to agree with PIP that natural disasters, wherever they occur, are just that, natural disasters.
I respect the right of anyone to attach whatever religious significance to them they want.
I don't believe gods or goddesses cause volcanic eruptions, but I respect the right of Hawaiians to believe the goddess Pele does so.
If Jewish, Christian, and Muslim people want to believe a natural disaster is a biblical prophecy or and act of God, that's fine with me.
I will continue to believe that natural disasters have been what they've always been and always will be, natural disasters.

Posted by: Mary at January 17, 2010 6:55 PM


Alkaline,
Totally agree.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 17, 2010 6:58 PM


RJ, would love to discuss with you further! I'm out for tonight, but I will email you soon. Furthermore, I am a writer at the blog 2secondsfaster if you ever want to come over. It's a more intimate atmosphere, and the owners are very devout Catholic. On many subjects they know more than I do. So if you want to discuss this in a permanent forum I would be glad to make a discussion post there for all of us to chat. Just let me know!

Mary couldn't have said it better myself.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 7:01 PM


To expand upon mu pithy "Plate Tectonics" earlier:

Pat Robertson thinks it's because the Haitians made a deal with the devil 300 years ago. So, was God napping for 300 years? Pat's seen his day. This is NOT what Jesus was all about.

Now, ask why HIV is so high in the Haitian community and the answer is that the wages of sin is death. But that's not God's doing. It's a consequence of our own.

Robertson holds out God as some testy Miss Manners who misses by three centuries. If we wait around long enough, some natural disaster will strike any part of the world. Then we can say it's because of X three thousand years ago.

God doesn't need to punish us for our sins. We're doing a damned good job of it on our own.

We've screwed up the environment.

Evidence is mounting that Baby Boomers carry genetic defects traced back to the radioisotopes created by all of the above-ground nuclear testing from 1945-1963 (The exact years that define the Boomer Generation). This may also serve to explain the rise in autism.

HIV and STD's continue to rise unabated since the start of the sexual revolution.

We've managed to abort 1.8 Billion babies since 1960 and suffer a plethora of unintended consequences.

Most 20th Century famines have been man-made.

The list is endless.

Truth be told, God's biblical plagues were tea parties compared to what we have done to ourselves. We've pushed ourselves to the brink of extinction as a species. What worse can God do to us?

He's a loving God and Father who desperately wants us to pull back from our self-inflicted agony and despair.

Bad things happen to good people, as Rabbi Harold Kushner wrote in his best seller in the 1980's. It's nothing more than living in a universe of random probabilities. We build cities on fault lines and in hurricane zones, in tornado alley and the wildfire-prone California chapparal. Much of this we do to ourselves.

The monstrosity of Robertson's remarks resides in alienating people from God at the time they are inclined most to call upon Him for love and mercy, healing and salvation for their loved ones. To suggest that God Himself has done this to them leaves them without hope of the Divine Love or Assistance.

It's time for Pat to take his leave.

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at January 17, 2010 7:44 PM


Hi! I found your website looking for a poll image :)

I looked up the "about" info about you and I am totally on the same page as you! Good for you and I wish you much success.

PS: Are you of a Czech origin? Your last name sounds very Czech (I am Czech and that's what my website is about).

Posted by: Tanja at January 17, 2010 8:10 PM


Pat Robertson does not speak for all Christians and should not be taken seriously ALL THE TIME. When he makes statements like he did about "a pact with the devil" he makes Christians look nuts and that's how some on the left view Christians, and they use someone such as Mr. Robertson as an example. Just like some don't like that former operation rescue guy (his name escapes me right now) and his tactics because they make pro lifers look crazy.


And I'm no scientist, but I am sure the earthquake was caused by plate tectonics.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at January 17, 2010 8:16 PM


Hi Liz,

I also think Danny Glover sounds like a nut job as well.

Posted by: Mary at January 17, 2010 8:21 PM


Some Haitians are sharing what they believe.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583236,00.html

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 17, 2010 8:23 PM


PIP--the pharisees of Jesus' day were very studied in theology also and Jesus called them spiritually dead. I am not saying the pope is or isn't spiritually dead, I'm just saying studying a lot about something like the Bible doesn't mean you understand it. The Bible says God uses the simple to confound the wise.

My brother-in-law studies theology. He has his masters in it and knows Hebrew and Greek. I don't. Yet he and I can both read and understand the Bible because we both have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Human intellect in and of itself is not enough to understand the Bible. My mother-in-law who is very very intelligent says it is gibberish to her...because she is not saved and does not have the Holy Spirit to open her eyes.

Revelation is not all symoblism. There is some symbolism but a lot of what might be taken as symbolism is actually John foreseeing the future but being unable to explain it with what he knew back then. Such as when moses and Elijah's bodies will lie in the street for 3 days and the world will see it...people a hundred years ago might have thought "yeah right." but now with TV and the internet that is not a hard idea to accept. When John described locusts in the sky making war might he have been seeing helicopters? He didn't know what they were, only what they looked like.

The ancient people didn't know America existed but God did. Job knew the earth was round. Back in ancient days, how did he know this? Your very beloved catholic church used to burn people for even suggesting the earth was round and not the center of the solar system.

God laughs at man's wisdom. God is the creator of the world and the universe and of each one of us. No matter how smart we think we are we will never be smarter than God. Your faith should not be in a church, or in a pope. Your faith should be in God alone. People fail you, pastors, popes, parents and friends, but God never fails.

Posted by: Sydney M. at January 17, 2010 8:26 PM


Don't know, don't care who/what caused the earthquake in Haiti. What a silly question!

All I care about is praying for Haiti (and for those with loved ones in Haiti) as well as sending them aid, which is what we ALL should be focusing on and what they desperately need: to know Christ by way of real assistance during this nightmare, and shelving the sermons about voodoo causes or pacts with devils. Sheesh.

Posted by: Cristy S. at January 17, 2010 8:32 PM


Who says we haven't donated Christy S? If there is a message God is trying to send is seething "sheesh" the smart thing to do? Typing on a website doesn't mean we aren't praying, doesn't mean we haven't donated aid. I have, have YOU?

Posted by: Sydney M. at January 17, 2010 8:37 PM


God's not sending a message, Sydney. And neither am I. I'm typing my opinion, same as you. Glad you're praying and glad you donated. And yes, I have and continue to. Thanks for asking. (And so you know, I don't 'seeth,' I only 'sheesh.')

Posted by: Cristy at January 17, 2010 8:45 PM


http://www.compassioninternational.org

http://www.samaritanspurse.org

http://www.FMSC.org

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 17, 2010 8:52 PM


PIP:

I love you so much today.

Posted by: xalisae at January 17, 2010 9:00 PM


Okay you don't seeth. Pardon. It seemed like you were to me. You can't say God isn't sending a message. You're not God. Before you say "Well you're not God either" I will say that I am fully aware I am not God but that I can glimpse the mind of God through His word. "God is in the whirlwind and in the storm " Nahum 1:3 God uses natural phenomena to send messages. God used a storm to get a hold of Jonah. God used a storm to get a hold of people at Christ's crucifixion. God used a storm in Noah's day didn't he? God uses His creation to send us messages constantly! Romans 1:20


Night all!

Posted by: Sydney M. at January 17, 2010 9:00 PM


Thanks for the links, Carla.

Also, we as Americans have donated 100 million (and counting) through our tax dollars for relief for Haiti. We are a very generous nation. So, if you don't have the means to make a monetary donation on your own, please do not feel badly and know that you have already donated.

Posted by: Marie at January 17, 2010 9:04 PM


You are welcome. I am trying to find organizations that are already "on the ground" in Haiti and have disaster relief plans in place. They are sharing the love of Christ with their outreach.

Oh, and the links I shared do not support worldwide abortions or throw condoms at thirsty, starving and hurting people.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 17, 2010 9:07 PM


Great Links Carla!

How have you been?

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at January 17, 2010 9:11 PM


Yes, I *can* say that God isn't sending a message by way of an earthquake. He doesn't NEED to destroy His creation by natural disasters any longer: He sent Christ to pay for all sin.

Christ commanded us in Mark 16 to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Telling all men that a horrific event like this is somehow God's way of getting a message to mankind is silly, in my opinion. The only message of any importance is John 3:16. And if I'm wrong, then God will deal with me on my last day. But I'll take that chance and tell more about His love and sacrifice than how a natural disaster was meant to punish them.

Also, read forward to Romans 2:5; I think God's day of wrath is still ahead of us.

Posted by: Cristy S. at January 17, 2010 9:12 PM


Great links, carla.

http://www.worldvision.org is on the ground in Haiti, too.

Posted by: Cristy S. at January 17, 2010 9:14 PM


"can we know for certain natural disasters are in fact increasing.

Posted by: Mary at January 17, 2010 4:54 PM"

Mary:

When I answer a question I try to answer it with Scripture since I am just a man. However, a man who knows that God knows the answer.
"Romans 8:18-25

18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently."

Posted by: Phil Schembri is Hisman at January 17, 2010 9:15 PM


"You are right Marie. I believe most natural occurrences have natural causes. I think that the belief of God being a direct hand in the suffering and death (and them praising him for it) is beyond repulsive. God's 'lessons' and 'punishments' through natural occurrences notwithstanding, I can guarantee you can measure tectonic plate movement; I don't think there is a similar measurement for testing God's wrath.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 6:55 PM"

PIP:

I can guarantee that God knew the number of hairs on each head of each person that was killed in the Haitian earthquake and ever other "natural" disaster that has occurred since the beginning of time. I don't think these disasters are punishment from God, however, we live in a fallen world where bad things happen to people. In this fallen world, where we attempt to become our own gods, death, destruction, disease, etc. are the result. If anyone caused the earthquake, we all did. God never intended for His creation to be like this.

However, God also knew that this earthquake would occur as He knows when the last day will be. He know He would send His Son to redeem the world. He knew his son would die on the cross, the greatest disaster of all time but at the same time, the most glorious event in history.

That is why He constantly warns us to repent and turn wholeheartedly to the living God, the source of life, healing, love and everything beautiful.

Instead of looking at this from our own eyes we need to see it from God's eyes. We are a people he has created and loves but who are constantly turning our backs on Him, i.e., we sin and deserve to be separated from Him.

The real question that should be asked is why hasn't God just completely destroyed us all since that is what we all deserve and should humbly admit to.

As for me, I know I am a sinner in need of forgiveness every single day. I know my only hope is Jesus Christ. He promises that he will save me if I trust Him and have faith in Him so that is what I strive to do every day.

Whether we die in a natural disaster or from cancer or from a heart attack the result is the same, we are dead and then we are judged.

So, let's stop looking at this earthquake from our own limited eyes.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is Hisman at January 17, 2010 9:35 PM


A major tornado hits Moore, OK every year. God must really hate that place.
Posted by: prettyinpink at January 17, 2010 6:14 PM
_

____________________________________________________
????? Really? Funny....I've lived in Oklahoma all my life, about 30 miles or so from Moore, and the only MAJOR tornado that I'm aware of that hit any where near there was the one we refer to as 'The May 3rd tornado'. That was about 1999, I believe.


Posted by: Pamela at January 18, 2010 3:09 AM


Good Morning Phil,

Thank you, but with all respect to your religious beliefs, you did not answer my question.

Are natural disasters really increasing or is it our knowledge of them?
Again, it stands to reason that for centuries people had no way of knowing the extent of natural disasters. A catastophic earthquake or volcanic eruption in one part of the world would not be known of in another part.

Posted by: Mary at January 18, 2010 5:11 AM


Everyone,

Another reputable charity is http://www.ob.org While I am no fan of Pat Robertson, I do respect his charity and the work they do.

Posted by: Mary at January 18, 2010 5:13 AM


Thank you Cristy S. and Mary for those links as well!!

Gerard,
Doing awesome!! Wanna know why?? I just heard that someone who comes off and on to my church was there when I told my abortion story. She became pregnant and although pressured to abort she could not get my words out of her head!! She is due this summer!! :)

My story is here
http://outcrywisconsin.blogspot.com/2009/03/my-story-at-faith-community-church.html

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at January 18, 2010 8:36 AM


Christy S... never said the earthquake was God judging them. I never said that. Don't add words to what I said. Thanks.


I said God uses natural disasters to His glory. He allows these things. Do we really believe God is ALWAYS in control? Or do we somehow think God is surprised that this earthquake occurred. Of course not. He knew it was going to happen before it did happen. God doesn't want mankind to suffer. That brings Him no joy. But it is the price of sin and of living in a fallen world cursed by sin.

Maybe some see this as judgement...I don't know if it is or not. I do know that God wants this to wake up the WORLD and direct their focus to fragility of life and how eternity is looming for each one of us.

Posted by: Sydney M at January 18, 2010 8:59 AM


off topic-Fox news just had a little piece on that new Planned Parenthood in Houston. They interviewed pro-lifers and talked about how this clinic is in a minority neighborhood! It was a good piece! They talked about how the clinic will perform abortions up to 19 weeks but at 19 weeks the baby is fully formed and alive.

I pray all the contractors grow a heart and walk off the job and that "clinic" never gets finished!

Posted by: Sydney M at January 18, 2010 9:01 AM


I'm positive they will perform abortions beyond 19 weeks. The PP here in austin advertises 23 week abortions.

Posted by: Lauren at January 18, 2010 9:17 AM


I should have clarified Pamela. I'm not talking about F5s necessarily. I live in OK and I do see some F3s hitting that area at least once a year during the season. If not precisely at that town, but in close surrounding areas.

Posted by: prettyinpink at January 18, 2010 11:07 AM


Carla,

Of all the beautiful souls in the world, you are one of the fairest of 'em all!!

I'm so thrilled for all involved!! I was at a pro-life prayer service in St Patrick's Cathedral on Saturday, and Archbishop Dolan shared with us that an avowed abortionist shared with him that the pro-lifers are winning because we are changing hearts.

Case in Point!!

God Bless

Posted by: Gerard Nadal at January 18, 2010 11:24 AM


OK, Jill asked for it, here’s what I believe:

God is desperately trying to save man from himself.

Because He gave us a free will, we don’t have to love, serve or obey God if we don’t want to.

That can be a problem.

I believe we were created and designed to have communion with our Loving Creator. We, mankind, are the crowning glory of His Creation, made in His image and likeness. He gave us authority and dominion in the Earth and the command to be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it.

There was only one stipulation, one condition that needed to be met for man to enjoy an abundant life on Earth, filled with Love, Joy, Peace and fellowship with the Heavenly Father: don’t exchange my counsel for your own.

In the Garden, when God spelled out for Adam & Eve what was good and what was evil, He told them they could eat from any tree in the Garden except one. Eating from every other tree was good, eating from the one tree was evil. By yielding to the temptation of satan and eating from the one bad tree, they rejected God’s counsel, His wisdom, His instruction, His Knowledge of what was Good and Evil, and exchanged it for their own. Have you ever wondered why it wasn’t just called the Tree of Evil? By eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they rejected His definition of Good and Evil, and adopted their own. The one Tree God said was bad, they decided was good, they redefined what they believed to be good and evil, and so they disobeyed Him, and sinned.

So here’s the problem. Romans 6.16 says “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?” So by yielding to satan, and sinning against God, death passed upon all men and mankind became slaves to sin, and in bondage to satan. And then as satan’s slaves, the authority and dominion originally given to Adam & Eve, transferred to satan, and the Earth was cursed. This is why 2Co 4.3 calls satan “the god of this world”. God is still in control, Jesus is Lord over all but satan has a degree of authority in the Earth. That’s why when satan tempted Jesus in the desert, he “took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” They were his to offer.

I believe satan is the cause of all death, disease, destruction and human suffering in the world.

I certainly don’t claim to have all the answers or understand it perfectly, but this is what I believe today.

Tonight or tomorrow I’ll post a few thoughts on how God has been working to establish His Covenant with man, His Kingdom and Authority in the Earth, and how by living in covenant with God, you can protect yourself from (or at least see your way through) satan’s attacks.

Posted by: Ed at January 18, 2010 11:37 AM


Mary:

The point is that the creation, since the fall at Eden, has been waiting for it's own redemption. Since these types of things have been scientifically recorded, the trend in frequency is upward. Very simply, the law of entopy is simple being followed, i.e., systems tend to a more disordered state.

While beautiful, the creation has been perverted by sin.

Jesus is returning soon. The point it to be ready for His coming and not miss the only flight out of town. To believe this or not believe this is our choice. I choose to beleive it (also because it is so logical).

Posted by: Phil Schembri is Hisman at January 18, 2010 11:42 AM



"This is in response to all X, hippie and all the rest who think those of us who believe that God could have a hand in an earthquake are being ignorant and uneducated and generally just being morons."

Posted by: Sydney M at January 17, 2010 3:35 PM


I object to being accused of calling folks ignorant or assailing their faith and calling them morons, none of which I did. I just think that the quake was caused by plate tectonics. I stated my opinion without insulting anyone or their opinion, and I think it is fair to expect the same in return.

As for making moral judgments, it seems abortion in America is more deplorable than Voodoo in Haiti because Americans are killing children even though they have considerable social support to avoid such a heinous act, whereas poor desperate Haitians following animal sacrifice traditions at least aren't killing their own children.

Posted by: hippie at January 18, 2010 12:08 PM


PS. I love animals and think Haitians, both human and animal, would be better off without Voodoo. However killing your own child is obviously worse than killing animals. I think it is doubly grievous for the prosperous to kill their own children in pursuit of further prosperity and ease. A poor superstitious person misguidedly killing an animal in hopes of some relief for himself or his family seems mild in comparison.

Posted by: hippie at January 18, 2010 12:22 PM


And, as Ex-GOP-INO pointed out on a different thread...how many christian women have I talked to that told me their abortions were ok because their baby just went to heaven?

Posted by: xalisae at January 18, 2010 12:43 PM


Hi folks,

This really is a superb discussion with some tremendous inputs. Perhaps, like many cataclysmic events where what we define as an 'I-moment') is not so defining after all. [or maybe it is! I'm thinking of the firefighters in the 9/11 disaster.] Maybe, we should look at the New Testament story about the disciples being caught in a sudden squall. They are all certain that death is near (far too near). In the midst of their anxiety Jesus comes to them, walking on water. [It may seem like a security blanket, now; but such a strange event would have heightened the angst even more so!] Now remember that the storm continues but stops only after Jesus orders it stopped.

There are many, many lessons learned: finding comfort-in-God is one but that does need more to it. A disaster is a personal way we all use to get our priorities straight. Does life matter? You betcha! ... a lot. Being pro-life can mean bring challenged beyond book learning, beyond our work; and even beyond ALL ties that we call 'normal'. How we respond is another lesson: Are we one? Does it matter if we are conservatives/liberals? Obama haters/lovers? REALLY? Do we not belong to each other in life and in death? Am I one in Jesus?

Isn't disaster THE only way we can COMMIT to LIFE/LOVE/GOD/HOPE and not devolve into a set of theories?

Are there more disasters now than before? Don't know or care. [If we do know when the end-days are, will we be better?] The lessons are similar to these, IMO.

Posted by: John McDonell at January 18, 2010 1:06 PM


"A disaster is a personal way we all use to get our priorities straight. Does life matter? You betcha! ... a lot."

Hi John McD! Amen!

Posted by: Janet at January 18, 2010 1:12 PM


Hi Phil, 11:42am

I'm afraid you continue to evade the question.
Would you agree that our ancestors would have no way of knowing the extent of natural disasters around the world and that this "increase" may just be the result of the information age. It may seem there is an "increase" when in fact these disasters frequently occured around the world for centuries.

Posted by: Mary at January 19, 2010 7:44 AM


Posted by: Gerard Nadal at January 17, 2010 7:44 PM

'We've screwed up the environment.'

I wrecked my father's car when I was a teenager, but like most problems it was resolved with time and money.

While I have to agree man made pollution has contaminated or damaged eclogcial systems, natural occurences has also done damage. Creation/nature has ways of 'healing' itself.

In the United States we have come along way in preventing more man made damage and repairing and restoring what man has damaged.

The Creation, like the Sabbath, was made for man, not the other way around.

It is written in the 'book' that the blood of the innocent pollutes the land and no expiation can be made for this blood except the blood of the one who committed the murder. [Abel's blood cried out to the LORD.]

Now, Jesus was 'incarnated' after that 'law' and HIS blood has the power to do what could not formerly be done.

[It is also written somewhere that Jesus is the Lamb of God who was slain before the foundations of the earth. I confess I do not know how that works out in space and time. But is an interesting concept to ponder until HE give us revelation and wisdom as to it's meaning(s).

There is 'power in HIS blood'.

yor bro ken


Posted by: kbhvac at January 19, 2010 11:01 AM


Rather than wax all religious, let me just say that God didn't have anything to do with the disaster down there. He is Love. He loves us so much he allowed His Son to suffer a horrible death on the cross for us.

satan is a renegade spiritual outlaw who roams about seeking whom he may devour. I don't know if anyone made a pact with him in the late 1700's. The problem is that Haitians believe they did through a voodoo cermony and now they wholly embrace the satanic cult. They say the population is 70% Catholic, 30% Protestant and 100% Voodoo. They worship idols, do ceremonies to become possessed by evil spirits, make curses, cast spells...

The problem is when any people sin like that, it separates them from God, His hands are tied. As I said, He loves each one of us, and has assigned to each of us a Guardian Angel, but when we sin or speak negatively about our situation, it ties God's Hands. The wages of sin is death, take it to the bank. And He honors our words. Like Ken said earlier, the umbrella of God's protection lifts.

The scripture says "give no place to the devil" so don't. And that he, the devil, "roams about seeking whom he may devour".

Keep yourself in the Faith and in the Love of God and He will keep you.

Posted by: Ed at January 19, 2010 9:19 PM