How about a question about the Human Life Amendment (since GA's was in the news recently)? Like maybe: should pro-lifers go for the HLA now, or should you wait until later for the HLA, or should you not push for it at all?

That is a good poll question idea, Reality.

How about... Pro-lifers say that it isn't time to overturn roe vs. wade, that people aren't ready, when in your opinion will it be a good time.

A) 5 years
B) 10 years
C) 50 years
D) never, we will be saying the same thing a hundred years from now.

Not exactly sure how you would phrase it as a poll question, but I'm curious about this blog's commenter's response to this story:

http://www.startribune.com/local/15616822.html

An unmarried Catholic school teacher got fired from her job for getting pregnant.

question: can a pro-lifer call themselves pro-life if they vote for a pro-abort president?

I always like these WWJD questions because they require so much deep thought.

--------

Candidate 1 or Candidate 2 are likely to win the Presidential Election. Most people feel Candidate 3 has no chance to win the election.

Candidate 1 is 100% Pro-Abortion and calls himself/herself "Pro-Choice".

Candidate 2 is somewhere between 100% Pro-Abortion & 100% Pro-Life but calls himself/herself "Pro-Life".

Candidate 3 is 100% Pro-Life and calls himself/herself "Pro-Life".

Abortion is no-doubt by far the #1 issue in the election since no other issue or combination of issues has killed over 45 million babies to date.

Who Would Jesus Vote For (WWJD)?

A) Candidate 1
B) Candidate 2
C) Candidate 3

Mike

I thought about my above question for many years. I read this inspiring story below and it gave me the answer.

-------

THE ROCK

From Mike O'Melia

There was a man who had a dream. He heard God speaking to him. "Press hard against the large rock". He did not understand this until the morning. He looked out from his hut and saw a huge rock that had rolled down the hillside.

He began to push and push, but he could not move the rock. Throughout the day he had several attempts, but he could not move it. Convinced that God had spoken to him, he made a mission of this task and for weeks he spent some hours every day but he could not budge the rock.

A traveler came by and asked him what he was doing. "God told me to move this rock" he replied. The traveler laughed and said, "You must be mistaken. You will never move a rock that large". Still the man continued his attempts to move the rock without success. Another traveler came by some weeks later and asked what he was doing.

"God told me to move this rock" he replied. The traveler scorned him and said, "Your God is stupid to ask such a thing. It is impossible. Give up". That night the man turned to God in his prayer. "Lord, I have done what you asked, but the task is impossible and it seems you have made fun of me. The travelers have mocked me for believing that I could move the rock as you asked me to do".

Then God spoke gently to him "My son. Look at your strong arms and legs; look at the rippling muscles in your back; look at the tanned hardness of your skin. Look at your increased strength. Look what has happened to you. You are a different man! I asked you to press against the rock and this you have done. I never told you to move it!"

http://www.2jesus.org/inspstories/rock.html

Mike

To me the story says vote for the candidate who best represents God. Don't worry whether or not if the candidate has a chance to win. Just do what Jesus would do and put "Your Trust In God" and God will do the rest.

Mike

I agree, Mike!
I like that story!

can a pro-lifer call themselves pro-life if they vote for a pro-abort president?

As long as they don't vote for him BECAUSE he's a pro-abort, I think it's okay. One-issue voting is not the way to go when picking a president.

"Who Would Jesus Vote For (WWJD)?"

Something tells me he wouldn't vote for the conservative republican. He was a bit of a liberal himself. And think he would abolish any anti-immigration laws.

I'd like to see a poll for when people think life/personhood begins. We go round and round about this and it would be interesting to see what everyone thinks.

I'd only want prochoicers responses obviously, because we all know what prochoicers think.

Some say 3 months, some say viability, some say birth, some say out of the womb regardless of viability...

I'd like to know what most say...

"I'd like to see a poll for when people think life/personhood begins."

Well sperm is alive. I'd say you become your own person when you're out of your mothers body. You shouldn't abort a fetus if it can feel pain or past the point of viability.

Personhood is an interesting topic. It is a personal, moral, religious, and legal question. In Canada, legally a human is not a person until the age of 18 (because "all people have the right to vote"--so for a while there, women weren't people either). Some people think that personhood is inherent. Others think it is earned.

I like this topic. But it would be tricky to do a poll on because of the myriad of different ways it could be interpreted.

"can a pro-lifer call themselves pro-life if they vote for a pro-abort president?

As long as they don't vote for him BECAUSE he's a pro-abort, I think it's okay. One-issue voting is not the way to go when picking a president."

I say no and they definately couldn't call themselves Catholic either. That one issue IS the most important in my opinion. without life there are no other issues.

Furthermore (@MK), you may find that the opinions of PLers aren't as homogeneous as you're expecting. Perhaps they are on this site, because there seems to be a lot of people backing their arguments with religion. HOWEVER...

My... significant other (I hate calling him my boyfriend... he hovers somewhere in between boyfriend and fiancé) is pro-life, but not for religious reasons. He is very concerned with psychological problems that abortions may cause women. His beliefs on personhood are not related to religion or even science or law. He believes that a human becomes a person once they have developed their morals and they understand them for themselves. I think that's a very interesting concept...

Leah,

I guess we'd have to find a way to define what we mean by "life".

Obviously, we know that it is a living organism at fertilization, and the question of legal personhood has already been determined.

How bout where would you draw the line on abortion?
When is it too late? When do you recognize the "fetus" as an equal?

1. No abortions past 3 months.
2. No abortions past viablility
3 Abortion at any time for any reason
4 Abortion only for reasons of the Mothers Life.
5 Abortion only for rape, incest and the mothers life.
6 Other (explain)

Leah,

I think he would have to be defined as anti-suffering from abortion as opposed to pro life then.

And does that mean that morally he wouldn't have a problem killing a five year old, because they have not reached the age of reason? Or is his definition of personhood seperate from the abortion debate?

And which morals do they need to attain? His? Mine? Theirs? Because a one year old has his own moral system (I want it/I take it...I don't want it/I throw it at your head) but society doesn't condone that moral system.

He believes that a human becomes a person once they have developed their morals and they understand them for themselves. I think that's a very interesting concept...

So does he believe that children under the age of 3 are non-persons?

Ha, MK I just realized you made the same point lol

"As long as they don't vote for him BECAUSE he's a pro-abort, I think it's okay."

I disagree Elizabeth, I believe the abortion issue is non-negotiable.

jasper,
I agree. How a person views life, IMO, defines his/her character.

Poll question suggestion:

Will your grandchildren be prolife?

I got the idea for this from the following website:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/WillYourGrandchildrenBeJews.htm

Interesting demographic feature

9% of Jews are orthodox.

27% of Jews under 18 are orthodox.

MK: No, he wouldn't kill a five-year-old child. Have a little faith in my taste in men. :)

My guess would be (I'll ask him later) that barring psychological disorders, he would support the right to abortion up to the point of viability, but I'm not sure.

He wouldn't kill a child because it is against his morals.

As for the human/person's morals. They have to develop and understand their OWN morals. That is to say that, while they may share the same morals as their parents (or maybe not) they understand the morals and they understand WHY they hold these morals. And the understanding has to be genuine. Not just a repetition of the reasons their parents/whomever tells them. Again, I find this idea interesting...

Leah,

I think that would be the definition of an "adult" not a "person"...you'll have to ask him to explain further. And if he is okay with abortion up to viability then he is most definitely not prolife. So he could vote. He would just have to choose "other"...;)

New poll question:

"What are you wearing?"

Haha. Not necessarily, MK. Some people develop their own morals long before they become adults, and some long after. But yes, I do think he would vote "other."

I'm not sure about the abortion thing. He's pretty firm about the psychological stuff. In any case, I called it pro-life because it's against abortions. I suppose the correct term would be anti-abortion. Whatev, man. :)

Doug:

... nothing.

(kidding!)

Hey! I have a poll! What should Leah call her significant other?

What is a good name for a person who walks the middle ground of boyfriend and fiancé? I'll give a nice, shiny Canadian dollar to whoever helps me figure this one out.

Leah,

Well, in Ireland they'd just refer to him as "Himself"...

As in "I was just saying to Himself the other day" or "Oh, if it isn't Himself" Or "Himself and I are going out to dinner on Saturday" or "Himself is anti abortion on the grounds that it emotionally hurts women"...

And you of course would be "herself"!

Interesting... interesting...

MK wins a Canadian dollar!! Yay!

Today the American dollar is worth slightly more, but if you wait a few days, the Canadian dollar will rise again and you'll get $1.02 or so back. Yay!

I win! I win! I win!

It'll cost you more than dollar to send it to me tho.

Hey,

Will you PLEASE send Bethany a picture so we can put it in the wall of fame? Have you seen it yet? Go to the right and click where it says "Snap...who we are"...

So Leah, when I was dating my future wife, I referred to her as my "lady friend." How about calling him your "gentleman friend?"

Well sperm is alive. I'd say you become your own person when you're out of your mothers body. You shouldn't abort a fetus if it can feel pain or past the point of viability.

Posted by: Jess at February 24, 2008 2:13 PM

Jess,
Just the other night on CBS, Katie Couric did a story about newborns or preemies who at one time were given no anesthesia for any type of medical procedure because the drs. didn't think they felt any pain. This was not being done even just a couple years ago. They now know differently and have realized that babies do feel pain. (one reason is they felt that the risk may not be worth using anesthesia) but in any case, if just as little as a couple years ago babies weren't given any pain meds, how do they possibly know when babies in the womb start feeling pain????

Because pain comes from the central nervous system and without the central nervous system it is impossible to feel anything. I don't think really small tiny babies should have anesthesia (maybe just something local to numb the area) because it would be too risky. The pain will go away but overdosing on anesthesia is permanent.

When I went in for my wisdom teeth I asked for as little anesthesia and pain medicine as possible. If I could have gone without any I would have. I don't believe in pain medication.

"Hey! I have a poll! What should Leah call her significant other?"

"My lover"? Someone who loves you in all ways, emotionally and physically.

Speaking of which my friend and I were discussing germs (I have a cold) and syphilis came up and how it changed to a milder form so it could be spread to more people. I chimed in with, "so you can infect more of your friends and family... er maybe not your family."

"So Leah, when I was dating my future wife, I referred to her as my "lady friend."

Bobby that's misleading. I would refer to mk as my lady friend, as she is a lady and a friend. You would be my gentleman friend. But I have no intention of getting physical with any of you (except PIP).

Yeah but when you refer to someone of the opposite sex like that, it means something totally different, ehh?

@Leah: A buddy of mine in college used to call her boyfriend "her man".

Whenever she'd talk about him she'd say, "My man does this..." or something.

:)

Bobby Bambino: Hey, I know what "bambino" means in Italian. I'm just that amazing. I'm not sure about "gentleman friend"... too comical sounding. I wouldn't be able to say it with a straight face.

Jess: Sometimes he calls me his lover, but to me that always implies something sexual. But the way you explain it does make it sound nice.

Teehee... infect your family with syphilis.

Both of you get Canadian dollars for your lovely suggestions. As the winner, I'll send MK $2--a "toonie" (GOD, I love Canada!)

This is a very serious matter, people.

MK: How do I do it??? New things on the internet scare me. Oh, and plus, I was saving up for a really good picture of me. Maybe I can pull something off. I'll look through my bazillions of photos.

Ari: Hmm... my man. I might use that one too.

@Bobby: When I hear "lady friend"...I think of what little old men who are widowers refer to their girlfriends/significant others.

This is not to say I think you're old or something... because I don't. Ooer...I'll stop digging myself a hole now...

"Hey! I have a poll! What should Leah call her significant other?"

How about a "boyance"??

Haha. Need help out of that hole, Ari?

"I'm not sure about "gentleman friend"... too comical sounding."

Exactly! :)

Leah,

You know how you posted a link for your pictures from Canada? Send the same kind of thing to Bethany and she'll do the rest!

"When I hear "lady friend"...I think of what little old men who are widowers refer to their girlfriends/significant others."

Well, I am little, and I suppose 27 years is old compared to my 3 month old daughter...

Boyancé! Cool!

Let's try these out.

"I'm having dinner with Himself tonight."

"My gentleman friend is waiting for me."

"My lover forgot to eat because he was practicing piano."

"My man gave me a lovely necklace."

"The boyancé and I are out for a night on the town."

What if I sent a link of my pictures to Bethany and she decides what flatters me best? ((is nervous)) ((hates making petty decisions))

Fine. I'll be a man and pick myself. Sheesh.

@Bobby: :-p That's not old, my mom was 26 when I was born, my dad was 33.

I believe my great-grandpappy was in his 50's when my grandpa was born.

So I think you're on the young side of old. :)

*Works on digging self out of hole*

What should Leah call her significant other?

I knew this one right off.

"A lucky guy."

OK I'm ready to drop the Nuclear Bomb questions for the Pro-Aborts only and Pro-Abort politicians. Here they are...

1. Should it be legal for a woman to kill her unborn child solely because there is genetic evidence that the child may turn out to be gay?

http://www.markcrutcherblog.com/index.cfm/2007/8/17/Gays-and-Baby-Killers-A-Shaky-Alliance#comments

2. Would You Support National Legislation Stating Abortion Clinics MUST Give Free Sonograms/Ultrasounds of the Woman's Unborn Baby Before Performing an Abortion?

3. Do You Believe Jesus Would Be FOR or AGAINST Partial Birth Abortion?

Follow Up Question: Why?

Mike

What if I sent a link of my pictures to Bethany and she decides what flatters me best? ((is nervous)) ((hates making petty decisions))

Well, Leah, earlier you said you weren't wearing anything, so this could be interesting...

Leah,

That would be great. I saw your pics from Canada and you're beautiful! Any one of them would be great!

Doug,
put your tongue back in your mouth and grab a cold one...shower that is.

"A lucky guy."

Awwww.....

I swear, if I didn't already have a lucky guy...

Well, Leah, earlier you said you weren't wearing anything, so this could be interesting...

Very funny man. I just so happen to have pictures of myself fully clothed, thank you! :P

Okay. Photo has been selected. Title of my significant other has been discussed at length.

Life is good.

Leah,

Hisman is questioning your comment on the weekend thread...

Oh, thanks MK. I may have to get back to him. I'm about to sign off for the evening.

I'll take a peek, I suppose.

'Evening, all!

@Leah: I think it's time for a party, we haven't had one of those around here in awhile.

What say you Bobby, Doug and anybody else who is still there this evening? Partay time?

*tentatively gets out party hats*

Should it be legal for a woman to kill her unborn child solely because there is genetic evidence that the child may turn out to be gay?

Mike, that's not really a proper question because it includes as a premise some unproven, subjective stuff, i.e. "child."

However, yes, it should be legal. For an unwanted pregnancy, period, (to viability IMO), regardless if any genetic stuff, etc., is in the mix.
......

Would You Support National Legislation Stating Abortion Clinics MUST Give Free Sonograms/Ultrasounds of the Woman's Unborn Baby Before Performing an Abortion?

No. "There's no such thing as a free lunch." If its desired to see an ultrasound, etc., then it can be paid for, like anything else.
......

Do You Believe Jesus Would Be FOR or AGAINST Partial Birth Abortion?

The biblical Jesus didn't say anything about abortion. Looking at the Bible and all the detailed rules, etc., in Mosaic law, it's farfetched to imagine that the writers of the Bible were against abortion and somehow just forgot to mention it. In biblical days, abortion was known, desired at times, and practiced.

Very interesting question, Mike. I don't really have a stong feeling, either way. Were Jesus to understand everything, I imagine he'd have mixed feelings.

Doug

I say no and they definately couldn't call themselves Catholic either. That one issue IS the most important in my opinion. without life there are no other issues.

Rosie,

I love ya but I've talked with my grandma who is a VERY hardcore Catholic..and she says it's okay as long as you're not voting for him BECAUSE he's a pro-abort. We have had extensive convo's about it because she is far more knowledgable about the Catholic faith than I, and she is very wise when it comes to things like this. I'm a Catholic...but I don't vote with tunnel vision.

Ari-Chan, I wish we had a chatroom where the party could really roll...

However, yeah, let me get my hanging-on-the-ceiling-fan gloves on, and another cup of coffee...

I disagree Elizabeth, I believe the abortion issue is non-negotiable.

As it is to me...but I'm not going to vote for somebody who's crazy on other issues because he is pro-life.

put your tongue back in your mouth

:: laughing ::

(MK, shouldn't you be in bed? ; )

\_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/

:: setting them up for Ari-chan ::

@Doug: WE MUST PLAY BEER PONG! :-p

Ari,

Dang. My boa is in the cleaners and I have to get up at five am.

Doug,

Wearing gloves to avoid leaving fingerprints won't work...we know who you are and we know where you live...well, sort of.

Leah,

Keep your clothes on!

Valerie,

Only one shot of rum per customer!
(okay maybe two. But make it tequila tonite)

Jill,

Put on the Queen.

Everybody,
I am NOT, repeat NOT, cleaning up in the morning. I cleaned up after the last two parties AND found VAL in the garage, AND payed off the cops (twice) AND had to change the fishbowl! So, no fingerpainting on the furniture, no goldfish up the nose, no balloons in the microwave, lemmings in the dishwasher or midgets up the chimney. I mean it now! Hey, you, put down that mullet! ...

Drink up, you lightweights.

Ari-chan, I think the ping-pong ball went in that very, very large mug right by you....

How about "Edward Fortyhands"?

That's where you have a 40 ouncer of beer taped to each hand, and you have to finish it all before you can be untaped. Heh heh heh.

Aww, man. I'm going to have to miss this party. Duty calls. You know--must spend time with my gentleman friend/boyancé/lover/man/very lucky guy/Himself.

Sorry, MK! ((dresses))

Have a good party!

The biblical Jesus didn't say anything about abortion. Looking at the Bible and all the detailed rules, etc., in Mosaic law, it's farfetched to imagine that the writers of the Bible were against abortion and somehow just forgot to mention it. In biblical days, abortion was known, desired at times, and practiced.

Very interesting question, Mike. I don't really have a stong feeling, either way. Were Jesus to understand everything, I imagine he'd have mixed feelings.

Doug,

So you think Jesus would be for this??...

http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html#showit

That's quite a unique view of Jesus you have there.

Mike

MK, don't even think about cleaning up. I have a nice spot to crash already picked, in the trash can, so don't be messing my bed up. You know Bethany's gonna heave me in there eventually, anyway, so I figure just get it over with....

Doug,

UNTAPE HER HANDS THIS MINUTE YOUNG MAN!!!!

And stop throwing balls in the house...

Wait that wasn't a ball...that was an egg!!! Ohnoyoudont! You're not throwin' eggs around in here, uh uh, no way *splat*

Very Funny. Real mature.

That's quite a unique view of Jesus you have there.

Mike, as I said, if Jesus was aware of everything, including the need for the procedure, etc., then I stand by what I said.

There are reasons why a given procedure may be the best. I know you don't like abortion anyway, but there it is.

Oh no, MK, 80 ounces of beer is not all that much, really....

If Leah's clothes stay on, then so does Ari-chan's tape.

Doorbell!

That's either the pizza or the police.
Either way, I'm not gettin' it.

I gotta go to bed!

Doug,
I'm leaving you in charge.
God, I'm gonna regret that.

And you might want to change the bag in the garbage before you retire...Rae is untaped which means she finished both those 40 ouncers which means the garbage is full...

Wait that wasn't a ball...that was an egg!!!

Well, MK, Ari-chan was still trying to finish off those 40's, but she nodded her head up and down when I asked, "Whadda you want, egg in your beer?"

*vomits in garbage*

Uuuuuugggggggh...

Now I know why I only drink a wee bit of Bailey's.

>_

I must be drunk, I thought Ari-chan was not Rae...

"Sink it. Drink it."

Doug,

Apparently you've gotten me drunk. Rae isn't even here. She usually is and Ari reminds me of her too. Ever since you brought it up I think of her/him as "the other Rae"

Either Rae, someone has chucked up in your bed...

@Doug: Sorry 'bout upchucking in your bed. I tried finding a trash can/bathroom but couldn't find it. :(

That beer pong table is epic, my friend's fiance has one, he's so proud of it. :)

Seriously, guys. Beer pong without me? Not kosher.

Although I'm an all-star at flip-cup. I'm a one-flip wonder. Let's start teams. :)

Then I get the rest of the whole bottle of Bailey's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHqA9StwRvA

Since it's Oscar night, I have a movie question.

What story from the Bible do you think would make a great movie? (It can't be a story that's already been done.)

Rosie,

I have to agree with you, if a person doesn't see the value of each and every human life, he's not going to be thinking straight on anything else. You can't have a president who is too wimpy-wishy-washy to stand up for life. Not in my world anyways!

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything! (I don't remember who said that, but I like it.)

Lyssie,

Can I be on your flippy-cup team? I am a ROCK STAR at that game!

lol Jess ;)

BTW, I'm an excellent pong teammate. But because I can't drink that kind of heavy carbonation all at once I like my cups to be filled with wine or mixed drinks.

....then things get REALLY interesting. They often end in freudian slips, dirty jokes, feigned intelligence, impulsiveness and disorientation.

Makes a good friday night ;)

Who would pay 100 bucks for a beer pong table? Just get an old bar table or a long piece of cardboard for God's sake. Beer pong is not a classy sport!

This is what happens at our parties

http://www.videosift.com/video/Whose-line-is-it-anyway-with-Stephen-Colbert

Oh no that is not the original I meant to put up. But I can't find the new one. the one I wanted to post was him doing party quirks. Oh well, random rapping and dirty dancing has shown up more than once so it still works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bf769rvds4&feature=related

this is good too

Beer pong is not a classy sport!

Ahem. Young Lady, you get an "F" there.

The #1 best movie of 2007:

No Country for Old Men

Posted by: Doug at January 3, 2008 11:39 PM

And... it pretty well cleaned up at the Oscars.

Best Picture, Best Direction, Best Supporting Actor, Best Adapted Screenplay. Sweet.

(And Yay for Daniel Day-Lewis getting Best Actor.)

Doug,

I wouldn't consider a drinking game classy but I think it's a lot of fun!

Doug, it's a drinking game, it's not classy!

But it sure is fun!

Wow, lots of great questions that will keep me from having to think for quite a little while. I also spotted some great weekend questions, although the "What are you wearing," might be dangerous... :)

Thanks, all!

ah whoops

PIP, it'd be classy if you were playing. How's that? : )

"As it is to me...but I'm not going to vote for somebody who's crazy on other issues because he is pro-life."

Elizabeth, who is crazy on other issues?

being pro-abort is crazy in itself.

may I ask who you are voting for?

I honestly don't know Jasper...I think they're all turds to be honest.

test

Doug, sounds wonderful ;)

PIP,

I answered your question on the weekend post thread.

Would people here vote for a Muslim president if he was pro-life?

He would have to be American-born, of course. I'd have to know more about him/her.

Janet, I was curious because people were saying that pro-life is their non-negotiable point. If it was a pro-choice Christian versus a pro-life Muslim, both born in the US, would pro-life still be the deal-breaking point?

Would people here vote for a Muslim president if he was pro-life?

Alexandra, I figured Jill might fire this up, but your comment makes me unable to wait.

Just joking, but what if he was pro-choice? (Hee hee hee hee.)

Doug

Janet, I was curious because people were saying that pro-life is their non-negotiable point. If it was a pro-choice Christian versus a pro-life Muslim, both born in the US, would pro-life still be the deal-breaking point?
Posted by: Alexandra at February 25, 2008 2:20 PM

He could be a Hindu porcupine with eight legs wearing a babushka and I'd still vote for the pro life candidate!

Janet, I was curious because people were saying that pro-life is their non-negotiable point. If it was a pro-choice Christian versus a pro-life Muslim, both born in the US, would pro-life still be the deal-breaking point?
Posted by: Alexandra at February 25, 2008 2:20 PM

He could be a Hindu porcupine with eight legs wearing a babushka and I'd still vote for the pro life candidate!
Posted by: mk at February 26, 2008 6:38 AM

mk, you are too funny. Yes, Alexandra, pro-life is the deal breaker for me. If someone believes a woman should be able to kill her own baby, I don't want him/her making any other decisions for me or my country either. Evil begets evil.

"Would people here vote for a Muslim president if he was pro-life?"

Yes, I would.