UN: Kill children to lower childhood mortality?

I read this on Twitter earlier today and did a double take...

repro rights 99 percent.png

Did you read that as I did? 99% of pregnant mothers in developing countries die? I checked the source, a UN article, which stated:

Hundreds of thousands of women - 99% of them in the developing world - die annually as a result of pregnancy or childbirth.

That made more sense....

Continue reading "UN: Kill children to lower childhood mortality?"

Controversial "Black and Unwanted" pro-life billboards cause stir in Arkansas

black and unwanted arkansas.jpgLast week AR Right to Life joined forces with the Radiance Foundation, as has GA Right to Life, to erect 6 "Black and Unwanted" pro-life billboards in high traffic locations in the Little Rock area.

And just as in GA, the billboards are causing a stir, yeah. Here's a June 22 Fox16.com news report...

Continue reading "Controversial "Black and Unwanted" pro-life billboards cause stir in Arkansas"

POP 101 myth buster: There's more than enough food to feed the planet

Population Research Institute has posted the 3rd in its clever POP 101 cartoon series, this one, "Food: There's lots of it " Visit www.overpopulationisamyth.com

See #1 in the series, "Overpopulation: The making of a myth," here, and #2, "2.1 kids: Stable population," here.

Huge robo baby at Shanghai World Expo because China "worships children"?


The upcoming World Expo in Shanghai, China, set to open May 1, will be the 'largest ever," according to the Boston Globe.

The Spanish Pavilion will feature a 21-foot tall monster robotic baby named Miguelin. According to Expo-Int.com, "MiguelĂ­n is a 6.5 meters [~ 20 feet] tall baby, electronically animated. It breaths, blinks and dreams with the cities that we will leave to future generations...."

Cute, but why? Expo-Int.com continued...

Continue reading "Huge robo baby at Shanghai World Expo because China "worships children"?"

Another overpopulation risk: Islands could "tip over and capsize"

Here's a description of the informative video you are about to see:

hank johnson.jpg

Meet Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA). While questioning the Navy's Pacific Fleet commander, Adm. Robert Willard, at a March 25 Armed Services Committee hearing, Johnson worried that the island of Guam might capsize if we put a few thousand more people [8k Marines and families] on it - because it's only 7 miles across at its "least widest" point.

Johnson later explained that he was speaking metaphorically. Watch the video and judge for yourself....

Continue reading "Another overpopulation risk: Islands could "tip over and capsize""

Using Google Labs to show the world depopulation crisis

Moderator Chris turned me on to this yesterday via the blog Out of our minds too.

Anyone can make their own Google Lab composite from the available options.

Below is a chart showing the crashing world fertility rate (although Africa's remains high), while meanwhile life expectancy is increasing. The chart looks better at the site, where you can ID any country you'd like, but you'll get the drift. I spotlighted Rwanda to show the impact civil war and genocide had there during the early 90s. Click on the arrow at the lower right to make the chart move...

Any country with a fertility rate below 2.1 is not sustaining itself - it is dying. At some point a country can't turn around. Run your cursor over the balls to see which countries are in trouble....

Continue reading "Using Google Labs to show the world depopulation crisis"

POP 101 myth buster: The world is underpopulated, not over

Population Research Institute has posted the 2nd in its POP 101 series, "2.1 Kids." Writes PRI:

This video takes a fresh, humorous approach to the demographic issues facing the world today. Visit www.overpopulationisamyth.com and spread the word: The world is not overpopulated!

This is very clever...

Whoops, I see I missed posting the 1st in PRI's POP 101 series, "Overpopulation: The making of a myth." Here 'tis...

Continue reading "POP 101 myth buster: The world is underpopulated, not over"

China and libs: Population control best way to stop global warming

population, china, abortion, copenhagen, climate control, global warming.png

The above photo and caption come from a December 8 Financial Post op ed by pro-abort Diane Francis, editor at large of the National Post, who wrote...

Continue reading "China and libs: Population control best way to stop global warming"

Obama's "science czar" is a dangerous man

by intern Andy M.

holdren.jpgIn his weekly address late in December 2008, President Obama announced that he had chosen Dr. John Holdren to be his assistant for Science and Technology, and Dr. Holdren was instated to the position in March.

Unsurprisingly, Obama neglected to make reference to Holdren's extremist views on population control and instead focused on his expertise in relation to "the growing threat of climate change."

FrontPageMag.com sums up the key concerns that many are raising about Holdren...

Continue reading "Obama's "science czar" is a dangerous man"

The UN has two faces

by Kelli

I am not a fan of the United Nations.

Thumbnail image for unfpa.jpgFirst there is the United Nations Population Fund, which tacitly supports China's one-child policy that includes forced abortions and sterilizations.

Then there is the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, which encourages minor abortions while opposing parental notification laws worldwide, stating in 2003, "Legislatures should remove legal restrictions to access of abortion and family planning services to adolescents," and "[P]arental consent for abortion services... can dissuade an adolescent from seeking a proper medical procedure and leave them to seek alternative, illegal and unsafe abortions elsewhere."...

Continue reading "The UN has two faces"

Stop at Two

by Carder

From BBC News, February 18:

This week, the Optimum Population Trust... launched its "Stop at Two" online pledge to encourage couples to limit their family's size.


Parents who have more than two children are "irresponsible" for placing an intolerable burden on resources and increasing damage to eco-systems.

Curbing population growth through contraception must play a role in fighting global warming, argues Jonathon Porritt, the leading green campaigner.

Porritt is not advocating a compulsory limit but told the BBC couples should "connect up their concerns with the natural environment with their decisions as prospective parents... every additional human being is increasing the burden on this planet which is becoming increasingly intolerable."

Contraception is not the only mechanism to implement Porritt's final solution. Earlier this month he stressed "contraception and abortion must be at the heart of policies to fight global warming."

China Phase Two?...

Continue reading "Stop at Two"

Japan to workers: Go forth and multiply

by Carder and Jill

According to CNN, January 26:

japan pop.jpgIn a country where 12-hour workdays are common, the electronics giant [Canon] has taken to letting its employees leave early twice a week for a rather unusual reason: to encourage them to have more babies.
Japan is in the midst of an unprecedented recession, so corporations are being asked to work toward fixing another major problem: the country's low birthrate....
Continue reading "Japan to workers: Go forth and multiply"

Poem, "over population"

I received this poem yesterday via email:

the world is overpopulated
sometimes people make mistakes
sometimes people die to make the total population healthier
sometimes when a woman decides that the man she chose was a wrong choice
giving that person a child would be a travesty of life
sometimes those people are children
I wish I had never had one
my daughter has said frequently she wished she were never born
I think to my self "I do too"
she is 22 now and has no future that I can see
at least not in the world after Bush

overpopulation 5.jpgI responded to the writer, whose name I'm omitting for the sake of his/her daughter, that it seemed they were both depressed, and had they sought counseling?

I wrote there are plenty of people who are grateful to be alive despite the fact their mothers didn't like their fathers, even if justified. It's not our call to determine intrinsic human value based on circumstances. Every person born has value endowed by our Creator, not by fellow createds.

And I wrote that placing the blame for a futureless world on President Bush is silly.

I forgot to write that "over population" is a myth.

[Graphic courtesy of overpopulationthreat.blogspot.com]

British Columbia's most prolific mother gives birth to #18


From the Associated Press, this afternoon:

A Romanian immigrant has given birth to her 18th child in British Columbia, making her the province's most prolific mother in 20 years...
Continue reading "British Columbia's most prolific mother gives birth to #18"

HBO special tonight: "China's Stolen Children"

china's stolen children.jpgFeatured as a 2008 Human Rights Watch Film Festival Official Selection and a 2008 British Academy of Film and Television Arts award winner for Best Current Affairs program, "China's Stolen Children," will be shown tonight on HBO as part of its Documentary Film Series.

Scheduled for 9p EST tonight with an 85 minute run time. Narrated by Ben Kingsley. Check full schedule of all showings here. Watch video clip here. Read the synopsis here. Here's a synopsis of the synopsis...

Continue reading "HBO special tonight: "China's Stolen Children""

The new world skeleton crew

skeleton crew 1.jpgThe New York Times on June 29 featured an 8,000 word expose on the world's underpopulation crisis. I've trimmed it to 2,500:

... In the 1990s, European demographers began noticing a downward trend in population across the Continent and behind it a sharply falling birthrate. Non-number-crunchers largely ignored the information until a 2002 study... gave policy makers across the European Union something to ponder.

skeleton crew 3.jpg

The figure of 2.1 is widely considered to be the "replacement rate" - the average number of births per woman that will maintain a country's current population level. At various times in modern history - during war or famine - birthrates have fallen below the replacement rate, to "low" or "very low" levels.

But... [f]or the first time on record, birthrates in southern and Eastern Europe had dropped below 1.3. For the demographers, this number had a special mathematical portent. At that rate, a country's population would be cut in half in 45 years, creating a falling-off-a-cliff effect from which it would be nearly impossible to recover. Kohler and his colleagues invented an ominous new term for the phenomenon: "lowest-low fertility."...

Continue reading article on page 2.

[HT: reader Patricia; all graphics courtesy of NYT]

Continue reading "The new world skeleton crew"

Chinese earthquake aftershocks

Read my previous posts on this tragedy here and here. According to the Associated Press, today:

Chinese police on Wednesday blocked access to several schools that collapsed in last month's massive earthquake, a day after a group of parents protested that their children had died because of shoddy construction of the schools....

chinese parents.jpg

Students' deaths have become the focus for Chinese, both inside and outside the disaster area, fueling accusations about corruption in school construction. Angry parents and even rescuers have pointed to steel rods in broken concrete slabs that were thinner than a ball point pen....

Continue reading "Chinese earthquake aftershocks"

Happy Mother's Day!

duggans.jpgFrom the Associated Press, May 9:

It's a happy Mother's Day for an Arkansas woman - she's pregnant with her 18th child. Michelle Duggar, 41, is due on New Year's Day, and the latest addition will join 7 sisters and 10 brothers. There are 2 sets of twins. "We've had three in January, three in December. Those two months are a busy time for us," she said, laughing....
Continue reading "Happy Mother's Day!"

Pro-death Ted Turner is pro-life on cannibalism

Let's break down Charlie Rose's April 1 interview with media mogul Ted Turner. First, watch the 1 minute clip:

Turner staked all predictions and solutions for the earth's future on 2 myths: human generated global warming caused by human global overpopulation....

Continue reading "Pro-death Ted Turner is pro-life on cannibalism"

China's one-child policy will stay

china%201-2.jpgWe previously discussed a February 28 Reuter's story on a Chinese official's hint his country may be ending its despotic one child per family policy due to the social upheaval it is causing.

Well, an apparently higher up Chinese official has moved quickly to squash that hope. According to the Wall Street Journal on March 11...

Continue reading "China's one-child policy will stay"

China may scrap one-child policy


From Reuters, today:

China, worried about an ageing population, is studying scrapping its controversial one-child policy but will not do away with family-planning policies altogether, a senior official said on Thursday....
Continue reading "China may scrap one-child policy"

Demographic winter

by Jill Stanek

Rich and I are returning home from our Hawaiian vacation today, which has sensitized me more than ever to the devastation of population decline.

hawaiian.jpgOne elderly half-Hawaiian told me she thinks there are no pure blooded Hawaiians left; Encyclopedia Britannica puts the number at less than 10,000.

It is politically correct to blame Westerners for the Hawaiian demise. Numbering anywhere from 300k-500k or more when Captain James Cook arrived in 1778, it is true their numbers spiraled downward due to the introduction of our diseases, like chicken pox, measles, and STDs.

But omitted from discussion is the ancient Hawaiian penchant for human sacrifice, numbering in the tens to hundreds of thousands to angry gods, as well as a strict penal code with capital punishment for breaking numerous taboos that included crossing one's shadow over a chief's shadow.

Speaking of chiefs, also omitted from popular discussion is the ancient Hawaiian class system with the belief that inbreeding between siblings and other immediate family members was good, certainly also weakening the Hawaiian strain.

How many millions of their progeny did Hawaiians themselves snuff?

All of that was actually an aside. Troy Newman of Operation Rescue alerted me to this trailer about the soon-to-be-released documentary, Demographic Winter. Click on this image to watch it at its link....

Continue reading "Demographic winter"

Men, have more kids and live longer

duggar.jpgWashington Post, November 19:

A young, trim farmer with four or more children: According to a new study, that's the ideal profile for American men hoping to reach 100 years of age.

The research, based largely on data from World War I draft cards, suggests that keeping off excess weight in youth, farming and fathering a large number of offspring all help men live past a century....

Continue reading "Men, have more kids and live longer"

The human race

[HT: Denny at Vital Signs blog; reader Angela]

Real men have more kids

femin.jpgAh, this could be the real reason Western Civilization is in the throes of an underpopulation crisis. Feminists and homosexuals have succeeded in emasculated men to the point their voices have raised an octave.

From BBC News, September 25:

Deep-voiced men 'have more kids'

Men with deep voices tend to have more children than those who speak at a higher pitch, scientists say.

Their finding is based on a group of hunter-gatherers in Tanzania known as the Hadza, who can be studied without bias because they use no birth control....

Continue reading "Real men have more kids"

Liberal underpopulation crisis

whoa2.jpg"Day of Conception," wherein the government promoted marital noncontracepted conjugal relations.

Pro-aborts on this site scoff. It appears their scoffing may echo in emptier and emptier hook-up bars or bathroom stalls.

In his September 12 Breakpoint, Chuck Colson referred to this August 20 commentary in the Wall Street Journal by social scientist Arthur Brooks....

Continue reading "Liberal underpopulation crisis"

Germany in denial over self-holocaust

pastor.jpgSVM News (and European news agencies) reported yesterday:

A German court sentenced a 55-year old Lutheran pastor in jail on June 14 for ... Volksverhetzung, which means incitement of the people....

Pastor Johannes Lerle was sentenced to prison for an year by Erlangen court in Germany for compar[ing] the killing of the unborn in contemporary Germany to the holocaust.

Without legalized abortion the number of German children would increase annually by at least 150,000....

(UPDATE: 6/28, 11:10a: Generations for Life has posted information on a retraction to the above story. Apparently the pastor was jailed for denying the holocaust.)


In fact, Germany and all of Europe are in the midst of an underpopulation crisis, as Newsweek reported way back in 2004....

Continue reading "Germany in denial over self-holocaust"

It's about population control, not "choice"

By Bethany Kerr:

Planned Parenthood has done a remarkable job deceiving millions of women into believing a lie - that PP cares about them and their reproductive "choices." But it doesn't take much research of PP's history to know this is not true. logo_PLANNED_PARENTHOOD.gif

Does PP really have an interest in serving women and supporting them in their time of need? Or does PP render service simply to control the population?

Does PP promote homosexuality because it wants people to be free with their sexuality, or is it really about controlling the masses?

A PP VP, Frederick Jaffee, offered the following specific proposals in 1970 for the U.S. to reduce its population growth:

  • Encourage homosexuality
  • Compulsory abortion for out-of-wedlock pregnancies
  • Compulsory sterilization of all who have two children except for a few who would be allowed three
  • Childbearing confined to only a limited number of adults with payments to encourage abortions
  • Fertility control agents in our water supply
  • Discontinue tax relief to parents

    Do any of these options sound "pro-choice" to you?

    Look at the Alan Guttmacher's organization, which is supposedly unbiased and "has no agenda." Alan Guttmacher served as vice president of the American Eugenics Society as well as President of PP. It sounds to me like "population control" may have been one agenda in mind when he saw the "need" for the institution that bears his name. 60s-Guttmacher.jpg

    In fact, Alan Guttmacher predicted in 1985 the "possibility that eventually coercion [in population programs] may become necessary." He told a reporter that coerced abortion may be needed the most "in areas where the pressure is the greatest, possibly in India and China." (Glasow, Richard D., Ph. D., "Ideology Comels Fervid PPFA Abortion Advocacy," National Right to Life News, March 28, 1985)

    And although PP has stated time and again, "We are supporting and fighting for everyone's freedom to make their own decisions about having children," this freedom apparently shouldn't extend to the people in China. PP does not criticize China's one child policy that forces women to have abortions after their first child. According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, "Few women dispute that women's lives are better now than in the past..." (because of China's "family planning programs").

    It's obvious to me this is not about women and it's not about choice. It's about controlling the masses, serving PP's agenda to keep the population count low. PP doesn't care who it hurts along the way. PP just wants to make sure its agenda is served. And it's seemingly getting closer to it's goal every year.

    Here are some random quotes from PP representatives:

    "The point is still under debate as to whether pregnancy is a disability, a disease, a choice or a right."Pregnancy.jpg ~ Rachel Cressman, PPFA program director, Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph, July 20, 1978

    "We are still unable to put babies in the class of dangerous epidemics, even though that is the exact truth." ~ Mary S. Calderone, PPFA medical director, 1968

    "I [now] have one more thing in common with... the first leader of Planned Parenthood-Margaret Sanger.. the recipient of the Humanist of the Year Award in 1957." ~ Fay Wattleton, PPFA president, accepting the Humanist of the year Award, The Humanist, July-August 1986

    "Emphasis shall be put on services [birth control, sterilization, abortion, etc.] to... teenagers and young adults." ~ Five-Year Plan, PPFA, 1975-1980

    Now how does all this tie in with the idea of "pro-choice"?

  • MSM buries headline on China's forced abortions

    The headiine in today's Washington Post: "Birth control crackdown sparks riots in rural China."

    The International Herald Tribune: "Chinese villagers riot over stricter population-control."

    And National Public Radio: "Chinese riot over birth control policies."

    Bad enough. But were the extensive riots, which reportedly involved 10,000-50,000 and "rolled from village to village" as "rioters smashed and burned government offices, overturned official vehicles and clashed with the riot police," simply about women rebelling against the Chinese government telling them they couldn't flush contraceptives down the drain?

    No, the riots were about being fined for having more than one child. And buried as one-liners in news reports was how the Chinese government enforces its one-child policy, as quoted from the Post, paragraph 4:

    Local officials eager to meet population quotas have frequently been accused of forcing women to submit to abortions or sterilizations to keep the birthrate down.

    china one-child.jpgAnd where is the abortion industry on this anti-choice issue, particularly since the policy has caused a surge of female abortions?

    A google search of "Planned Parenthood China" finds only its urging that the U.S. restore funding to the United Nations Population Fund, which is part of the coercion. NARAL? The same.

    One other note. Rich women are side-stepping the one-child policy by paying off government officials. The next time someone claiming to be "pro-choice" laments access of poor women to abortions in the U.S., ask what s/he is doing to help poor women in China make the opposite choice.

    [Photo courtesy of Aljazeera, believe it or not]

    Liberal extinction, by the numbers

    New America Foundation fellow Phillip Longman in USA Today on March 13 (synopsized from a longer piece in the March/April issue of Foreign Policy magazine) says basically this: Population equals power; therefore, conservatives/traditionalists have historically and will soon again inherit the earth. Writes Longman:

    Childlessness and small families are increasingly the norm today among progressive secularists. As a consequence, an increasing share of all children born into the world are descended from a share of the population whose conservative values have led them to raise large families....

    This dynamic helps explain the gradual drift of American culture toward religious fundamentalism and social conservatism.

    Do you distrust the army and other institutions? Do you find soft drugs, abortion, homosexuality and euthanasia acceptable? Do you seldom, if ever, attend church? Are you an environmentalist*? These are progressive views, and you are thus part of a literal dying breed.

    Juxtapose that to this massive Zogby poll** (30,117 respondents in 48 contiguous states with margin error of +/- 0.6%) conducted March 10-14, and you'll see why the pro-abortion position is a growing loser for Democrats.

    *The logo, right, is from the environmentalist website Voluntary Human Extinction Movement. Its motto, "May we live long and die out," could not more aptly demonstrate why liberalism is a dying concept.

    **The Zogby poll is detailed in today's LifeNews.com.

    Will China's one-child policy result not only in the deaths of its females but the death of us all?

    The February 13-19 Washington Times National Weekly Edition reported:

    A new Pentagon strategy report... bluntly states that China is the greatest potential challenge to the U.S. military and is rapidly building up its military....

    The Pentagon report... notes that Beijing is investing heavily in military force, "particularly in its strategic arsenal and capabilities designed to improve its ability to project power beyond its borders."

    china.jpgThe February 20-26 edition reported on satellite photos of China showing nuclear warheads stored in a secret underground submarine tunnel. Reported the WT:

    Adm. Gary Roughead, commander of the Navy's Pacific Fleet, said he did not consider China "a threat." But he also said in a speech Feb. 14 that China's purpose behind its rapid military buildup is not fully known.

    Well, I consider China a threat, and I can guess why China is engaged in "rapid military buildup." Connecting more dots, China's one-child policy resulting in a grave disparity between boys to girls born is well-reported. It is hard to believe this isn't purposeful.

    Feminists and liberals aren't the only ones upon whom promotion of the overpopulation myth and abortion worldwide will backfire.

    Mark Steyn on Australia's missing wee bairns

    This was in yesterday's The Australian.

    Article reprinted in entirety on page 2 with an editorial comment. WARNING: parental discretion advised.

    Hat tip: Reader Mike Perry

    Continue reading "Mark Steyn on Australia's missing wee bairns"

    The Muslim connection to France's underpopulation crisis $ handout

    Addendum to my previous post...

    Hyscience quotes the American Thinker on another point, drawn from a Washington Times piece yesterday that included this:

    Given France's egalitarian ideals, the notion of creating perks to attract professional mothers did not go down well with the socialist opposition....

    Demographic trends in Muslim and non-Muslim communities are rarely mentioned in public debate. France has the largest Muslim community in Europe, estimated at up to 10 percent of its 60 million population.

    "France is facing the problem that dare not speak its name," columnist Barbara Amiel wrote in 2004 for the London Telegraph.

    "Though French law prohibits the census from any reference to ethnic background or religion, many demographers estimate that as much as 20 [to] 30 percent of the population under 25 is now Muslim. ...

    "Given current birthrates, it is not impossible that in 25 years France will have a Muslim majority. The consequences are dynamic: Is it possible that secular France might become an Islamic state?" Ms. Amiel wrote....

    Muslims already living on the continent are having three times as many children as their white, European neighbors," [a 2004] Pew [Research Center] report said.

    In a post entitled, "The French are practicing eugenics," the American Thinker wrote:

    Unspoken in the policy, though covered in the Washington Times article, is the demographic reality that low income Muslim women in France are having babies at a rate that will make France a predominantly Muslim country in the lifetimes of many of today's children. Tying aid to salary will increasr the incentive for upper income French women to have babies.

    Why doesn't MSM call it an "underpopulation crisis"?

    The Chicago Sun-Times reports today that France will offer new financial incentives for mothers to have third children. Reports the Sun-Times:

    France isn't alone in worrying about the need to encourage births. Across Europe [there is]... a decline in fertility rates that some fear could lead to economic decline.

    In the 25-nation European Union, the average fertility rate has sunk below 2.07 children per woman -- the minimum needed to prevent a drop in population without immigration.

    "It is a kind of creeping crisis," said Jan Hoem, a director of the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research in Germany, where the fertility rate of around 1.3 is among Europe's lowest....

    The family-friendly policies have helped keep France's fertility rate among the highest in Europe -- 1.9 children per woman, second only to Ireland's 2.0 but still below the 2.07 level needed to keep population stable.

    The EU average is around 1.5, dropping to less than 1.3 in some countries.

    Why aren't headlines screaming about the underpopulation crisis?

    Read entire story on page 2.

    Continue reading "Why doesn't MSM call it an "underpopulation crisis"?"

    The EU's under-population Catch-22

    CatholicIreland.net published a commentary on August 10 focused on a July 11 press release by the European Union's Commissioner of Employment, Social Affairs and Equal Opportunities.

    CI quoted Pope JP II as saying Europe's present under-population crisis is directly related to Europe's loss of its Christian identity.

    This is clear in the EU press release, which identifies the need for more children but calls childbearing a "burden," rather than what Scripture calls it, a "blessing."

    Until the EU changes its worldview, it will find no solution. See its quandary, which I have pulled verbatim from its press release, forced on it by its secular worldview:

    To balance work and family life better, the European Social Model needs to be modernized and the EU's economy needs to pick up. Europe's demographic changes means it needs more children, a higher percentage of working women and care for the increasing number of elderly. The EU can tackle this 'magic triangle' if everyone helps share the burden, through new ways of balancing work/family life. But failure to do so would directly hit Europe's future economic growth, as well as putting a potentially unbearable burden on women's shoulders....

    Placing the burden of having more children, working more and caring for the growing number of elderly at the door of women is neither practical nor fair - requiring therefore new policies, mentalities and attitudes to confront the EU's demographic challenges.

    I await the EU's solution to its crisis of needing more children to save itself from extinction but not wanting to encourage women to have them.