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Today Silent No More Minnesota, whose mission is to reach out to those
wounded by abortion, unveiled a new billboard, scheduled for launch July 1 for 3 months on I94 in Albertville, MN....
Timing and location were chosen to take advantage of heavy summer Interstate traffic at a site near MN's largest outlet shopping mall, which is in Albertville.
The billboard, which reads, "Abortion Hurts, There is Hope and Healing," will be the 1st of its kind in MN.
SNM MN president Ann Marie Cosgrove stated in a press release that the billboard has multiple purposes: to bring awareness to those hurting from abortion, especially the unchurched, who may not ever hear a message of hope and healing; to educate the public that abortion causes pain, which also gives the abortion vulnerable pause to reconsider; and to soften hearts of those who think poorly of post-abortive mothers.
Ann Marie would love to keep the billboard up an additional 3 months for those who find their summer flings produced more than fond memories and for college students trekking to and from school. It only takes money. Donate online or by snail mail to Silent No More MN, P. O. Box 68125 Minneapolis, MN 55418.
WOOT!! Happy to give!! Thank you Ann Marie!!Posted by: carla at June 14, 2010 9:58 PM
Thanks Jill...this has been a yearning of the heart for so many years. God is Good all the time!Posted by: ann marie at June 14, 2010 10:52 PM
Just putting this out there--
I had an abortion 20 years ago. I'm now 40, married with one kid. I don't regret my abortion. I'm sure I will be vilified, but please be aware that "post-abortion syndrome" is not a condition felt by all women who have had abortions. It is a lie to say speak in absolutes, saying that all women suffer or all women are relieved. The experiences fall along a continuum.
Also, I worked in a home for pregnant teens and young mothers in my 20s. We helped them care for their kids, get GEDS, jobs, even apply to college. Never once did I--or one of my colleagues--"push" abortion on these girls. Most had no money to speak of but we were there to help. We lent ears when they wanted to talk out their decisions. So please don't accuse me of "hating" pregnancy or using abortion as a means to limit the reproductive rights of poor women.
Posted by: Keren
at June 15, 2010 12:33 AM
"It is a lie to say speak in absolutes, saying that all women suffer or all women are relieved."
Is it safe to speak in absolutes regarding your aborted unborn child Keren? It is not a lie to state that your abortion killed a human being. That human being was your and someone else's child as well as your living child's sibling.
This is the absolute Truth and no one has the power to make this absolute Truth hurt you. If this absolute Truth doesn't hurt you, just don't call the number.
But "me thinks thou doth protest too much."
Peace.Posted by: Praxedes at June 15, 2010 1:10 AM
Hi Keren from WHO,
For those that are suffering and struggling after their abortions and don't know what to do this is a wonderful thing to reach out to them with help and support, don't you agree? Hope and healing should be available to those that found abortion to be the worst mistake of their lives, right?Posted by: carla at June 15, 2010 7:46 AM
Oh and Keren?
Who is speaking in absolutes?
an unequivocal statement.
"Abortion CAN hurt"Posted by: Keren at June 15, 2010 8:05 AM
Please answer my first question Keren. This is a very good thing is it not?Posted by: carla at June 15, 2010 8:17 AM
Of course women should have an outlet to talk about their experiences, particularly if they have been negative. I'm a big supporter of therapy.
And why NOT talk about abortion, as one would discuss other life events? We should not be ashamed to speak.
You're being oblique, though. This campaign is not intended to acknowledge the myriad experiences women have had with abortion. It is not "we know some of you have suffered," but "all of you have/will have suffered." People who have not had an abortion will pass that sign and come away with a skewed understanding of what it is to have an abortion.
There is no one experience, not of abortion, not of mothering. Even if you argue that abortion is wrong, you must acknowledge this.Posted by: Keren at June 15, 2010 8:28 AM
There are NO absolutes... but the medical research is staggering to the effect of abortion on women, men and families. There are LOTS of articles on our website... but here's a few in point.
*In a study of U.S. and Russian women who had abortions, 65% of U.S. women experienced multiple symptoms of PTSD, which they attributed to their abortions. Slightly over 14% reported all the symptoms necessary for a clinical diagnosis of abortion-induced PTSD, and 25% said they did not receive adequate counseling. 64% said they felt pressured by others to abort.
*Two national records-based studies from Finland revealed that aborting women were 6 times more likely to commit suicide in the following year than were delivering women.
*In a survey of women with post-abortion problems, 39% reported subsequent eating disorders.
So... if that billboard helps just one person find emotional help so that she/he isn't plagued with PTSD issues, suicidal thoughts of eating disorders.... I think Ann Marie will be more than happy!Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 15, 2010 8:52 AM
should say "OR eating disorders"...Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 15, 2010 8:55 AM
Keren - no one here wishes to vilify you.
Thank you for your work with young mothers -- they need all the assistance they can get.Posted by: phillymiss at June 15, 2010 10:02 AM
Hey everybody, check out this cute bumper sticker celebrating motherhood.
"The Mudflap Mom"Posted by: hippie at June 15, 2010 10:11 AM
I'm not trying to villify either..but the stmt
"Abortion CAN hurt" '
is a Half-truth...abortion ALWAYS hurts 1 or both patients. The unborn baby dies...THAT always hurts...Posted by: RSD at June 15, 2010 10:19 AM
Awesome bumper sticker! When will you start selling them?!Posted by: Praxedes at June 15, 2010 10:25 AM
I did not vilify you but thanks for calling me oblique.
IF you ever struggle please email me. I get emails everyday from women that need abortion recovery.
Otherwise I would rather not get into a DO TOO DO NOT conversation about our abortions.Posted by: carla at June 15, 2010 10:35 AM
"And why NOT talk about abortion, as one would discuss other life events?"
Abortion - not something brought up at the Christmas table like motherhood often is.
Abortion - not something brought up at the soccer match like childbirth often is.
Abortion - not something brought up at the 4th of July cookout like parenthood often is.
Abortion - not something brought up on a first date like childhood often is.
Abortion - not something brought up at weddings, funerals, births, graduations, anniversaries, work parties, . . .
I have never heard women discuss their abortions like they do other life events. Friends have expressed their great remorse to me one on one though.
Keren, where do you discuss your lack of guilt surrounding your choice to abort?Posted by: Praxedes at June 15, 2010 10:40 AM
I had an abortion in 1983...it nearly killed me in so many ways because I didn't numb myself to what I had done...taking the life of my own child.
I have been reaching out to those wounded by abortion for over 15 years, 8 with Silent No More MN. What I have come to learn is this, not every women regrets or was hurt in the timeline as I was.
I have met many women who for 30+ years said their abortions didn't hurt them or they regretted but one day something happened and they hit a wall...I have taken many of phone calls where women say, "I didn't realize" "I didn't know or get it that this was a root to so many other problems." It is only when they go through healing that they understand the hurt they felt all those years without realizing it.
Keren, I reachout to you today to say this; if you ever come to a place where you do hurt from your abortion call my number I will listen without any judgement. We are here for you always.
Thank you for your help in helping those young mothers who without the help they had gotten would more then likely aborted their babies.
For those needing help after abortion: http://www.abortionrecovery.orgPosted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 15, 2010 10:59 AM
Ann Marie, my experience was as you have described. It took me more than 20 years to fully realize how profoundly my abortion hurt me--to fully realize what my abortion WAS (the ending of the life of my child--my one and only child). When a person has been taught that abortion is OK, when most (if not all) of one's friends believe it's OK, when the LAW says it's OK--it is very hard to grasp and admit that it wasn't OK. The pro-choice theory is a form of brainwashing. The pressure to remain "pro-choice" and emotionally detached from the truth is tremendous, and the prospect of being ridiculed and even left by one's friends is frightening. All post-abortive women need our prayers and witness and support.Posted by: Alice at June 15, 2010 12:04 PM
"I have never heard women discuss their abortions like they do other life events. Friends have expressed their great remorse to me one on one though."
Posted by: Praxedes at June 15, 2010 10:40 AM
People talk about all kinds of surgeries and health issues, but not abortion.
Who wants to admit killing an innocent kid as some sort of small talk. People talk of it only in very serious context.Posted by: hippie at June 15, 2010 12:26 PM
" People who have not had an abortion will pass that sign and come away with a skewed understanding of what it is to have an abortion". Posted by: Keren at June 15, 2010 8:28 AM
Skewed how exactly, Keren? I have never had an abortion, but I have heard many, many testimonies (including Carla's) about what abortion does to a woman..physically, mentally, spiritually. Seeing that billboard just makes me AGREE with it. My young niece had an abortion about a year and a half ago. I couldn't talk her out of it. She was always against abortion before. Now the guilt of what she did has driven her to drink to the point that it's affecting her health.She's only 23 and has two little girls.
Abortion is supposedly this EMPOWERING action that women should be PROUD to have and CARRY and wear like some badge of COURAGE and HONOR! Lies. All lies.
I heard all of that crap, listened and believed. I became angry and prochoice and ugly in my quest to have others close to me abort as well.(My sisters didn't listen thank God and I now have two beautiful nephews)
Then I learned the truth.
How did my child die in my abortion but yours did not?
Thank you, Carla!!!Posted by: Alice at June 15, 2010 1:36 PM
You say you have one child what is the difference between this child you allowed to live and the one you aborted?
The abortion I had took the life of my child, the miscarriage I experienced years later took the life of my child. The difference is the miscarriage was not of my doing. Both babies lived in my womb, both died there. One was ripped apart while I cried and begged the Doc to stop. The other died and I didn't know it...I didn't cause it's death. I didn't have shame and quilt from the miscarriage but the abortion cause me unbearable pain at times.
I have never had any other children...you are very blessed to have been given the chance to be a mother to a living child.Posted by: ann marie at June 15, 2010 1:57 PM
I don't know... my nephew's wife, who, feeling two kids were enough, aborted their third. I don't know her well, but she started to unravel sometime after that. Started drinking more with her husband, then doing cocaine, then working lots of hours in a bar and hooking up occasionally. They divorced recently and she moved in with a drug dealer.
Twenty years ago, I would never have seen this coming. Middle class family, college. Was she the brightest bulb in the box? No, and pretty self-centered to begin with, but I feel her abortion DIRECTLY led to her disintegration.
Her unwed 19 year old just delivered her first child. Naturally, my nephew and his wife tried to talk her into aborting him. Lucky for her, she resisted and is getting married.Posted by: mtm at June 15, 2010 2:56 PM
mtm...I had used drugs while pregnant...but it was after the abortion I started a deeper, faster spiral down into the world of crack cocaine.
One year and one month from my abortion I moved to the Virgin Islands to start fresh. I didn't want my child to have died in vain. I didn't want to become a nothing. I forced myself to become more and bigger always had to be different then anyone else. Little did I realize this to was a form of pain from having the abortion. I couldn't just be I had to be. Which is the same as being nothing except more work!Posted by: ann marie at June 15, 2010 3:25 PM
Addressed to all--
why do you think women are incapable of fully grasping what abortion is? what, do you think we don't understand biology, so we need to see all these ultrasound pictures to be raised out of our false understanding the feminist establishment has duped us with? give women more credit than that. right or wrong, i'd say most women understand the procedure. must voters view a film on the democratic process before being allowed to fill out their ballots?
I ended a life growing inside of me. I'm not sure if all the support in the world would have changed my mind either. I was still nearly a teenager. Still a child, still too young. I talk about my abortion with my girlfriends, sometimes they talk about theirs, and their pregnancies. All part of a reproductive-sexual narrative. We listen and support. I do not claim that any of them is delusional; if that is true, then can any woman really be trusted?Posted by: Keren at June 15, 2010 4:24 PM
I remember a few years ago someone made up a tee-shirt that read, "I had an abortion" and wanted women to wear it proudly. The only place I have ever seen a woman wear that shirt was at some Pro-choice rally.
I doubt very much it's a tee-shirt you would see women wearing standing in line at the Dairy Queen with their other kids in tow.
No matter how much those in support of abortion want post-abortive women to stand up and be proud; it will never be to the volume that they hope for. Why? Because I am willing to bet many of them know their own child died that day and that is really hard to be proud of.Posted by: ann marie at June 15, 2010 4:25 PM
Keren it wasn't your mind that needed changing it was your heart.Posted by: ann marie at June 15, 2010 4:30 PM
Keren, You talk about "women" knowing these things...did you know them as a mere child barely a teenager.
You state you ended a life. Whose life? The life you ended was not just a life but your child's life. I step on ants all the time...no shame, no guilt..I ended their life.
For 8 years I have done this work, reaching out to those wounded by abortion. As I said, many live in denial of the fact they aborted their own child's life. That's a really hard thing to come to know and live in the truth with...but the truth does set as all free included those who took their own childrens lives through the means of abortion...whether legal or illegal.
Keren, like I said, if you ever hit that wall just call I'll listen.Posted by: ann marie at June 15, 2010 4:40 PM
Do you honestly think abortion clinics are ready and willing to discuss fetal development, say the word "baby" and show women ultrasounds while explaining exactly what she is seeing on the screen?
From my own experience and reading the stories of thousands of women hurt by abortion that is simply not the case.
Also see http://www.liveaction.org
Undercover at clinics across the land.
Women are lied to and deceived and coerced by the abortion clinic that claims to "care."
TRUST WOMEN WITH THE TRUTH ABOUT HER GROWING CHILD!
How do they help young pregnant teens that DON'T want an abortion?Posted by: carla at June 15, 2010 4:40 PM
"right or wrong, i'd say most women understand the procedure. must voters view a film on the democratic process before being allowed to fill out their ballots?"
Not a very good example. Look at what happened in FL to Al Gore. People there couldn't figure out how to vote.
Surely you know that knowledge is power. Why should a doctor not give women the best information out there before making such a personal, heart wrenching decision? Even Pres. Obama agrees that abortion is just that.Posted by: Janet at June 15, 2010 4:45 PM
The link you gave with the stories are the same stories I have heard from so many women I have talked to. The only difference is with our stories we have come through the other side. The side of truth, Abortion takes the life of an innocent child. Your abortion took the life of your own child.
Carla is right...Trust women with the truth of her growing child.Posted by: ann marie at June 15, 2010 4:56 PM
I have a friend who was pressured to abort by her ex-husband and if she had would have aborted her only child. I have relatives who are post-abortive and were hurt deeply. One, could not forgive herself for years and part of the reasons she put up with 2 abusive marriages was because she could not forgive herself for having a 2nd trimester abortion. It was like she was punishing herself by being abused physically, emotionally and even sexually. Years later, she received healing and now counsels at a CPC. The other relative who had a few abortions, received healing and now is ministering to girls to help them to know Jesus Christ so they avoid making the same mistakes. God is using them both wonderfully. God is so good and He is the God of second, third or as many chances as we need.Posted by: Prolifer L at June 15, 2010 5:06 PM
Thanks for recommending the mudflap mom bumber sticker. It's so nice to see the opposite image of what is so often advertised on the backs of car windows and trucks (you know - the provocative curvaceous image of the naked girl with big boobs) which is really the objectification of women. Great to see a bumper sticker that doesn't have the same sexual message as all the other ones.
Also, what an awesome billboard. I hope we start to see others pop up about how abortion has hurt so many.Posted by: Doe at June 15, 2010 6:23 PM
Keren, at best you're like a war veteran showing up on a PTSD website and saying, "I'm a veteran and I don't have PTSD. Not all war experiences are alike. Stop acting like all veterans have PTSD, because we don't." Okay, so you don't have PTSD. Why come and bother those who do, then?
As for ultrasound pictures, do you think teenage girls are all aware of what unborn babies look like? What about women who never graduated from high school? Obviously they can know and many probably do, but why assume that they do? Why are we still hearing stories about "they told me it was just a blob of tissue, and I believed them"? It's easy to be in denial about something stressful. If a doctor tells you your heart valve is 85% blocked, you can try to rationalize it away - "so what, I still have 15%" - but once you see that heart valve, you know it on a different, deeper level.
Various commenters on this site have talked about being unexpectedly pregnant and the whole experience feeling unreal. Intellectually knowing that fetuses have limbs is a different thing from seeing your baby, the one who's growing in you right now, and realizing you can count the fingers and toes. I've known about the Holocaust since I was maybe eight years old, but going to the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. and actually seeing the discarded shoes of people who died in concentration camps made it a lot more real to me.Posted by: Marauder at June 15, 2010 6:24 PM
Oh, forgot to say: So you were a teenager and felt too young to raise a baby. That's understandable. But did that mean you actually had to kill your baby?Posted by: Marauder at June 15, 2010 6:29 PM
Marauder, good point.
I think the other point to make to "you were a teenager and felt too young to raise a baby"...
Did you feel you're not too young to kill your own flesh and blood?Posted by: RSD at June 16, 2010 11:14 AM
WOW... there are a lot of comments happening here that don't seem very "Christ like". Those of you that are pickin' up the stones, better look in the mirror. Although murder is a sin, so are gossip, envy and a whole lot of other things that ALL of us have done.
Throwing around the "murderer" and "killer" word aren't going to win the war against abortion. Sorry to say, they would have done it by now. Those words only cause more divide. And using them on others does not promote a feeling of safeness in which to reach out.
Let's open up our arms for women who might be hurting to ask for help. It's is not our place to shake fingers at anyone who has chosen abortion. God will speak to her heart, when HE'S ready. Not before.Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 16, 2010 1:36 PM
Haven't seen any comments on this thread calling Keren a murderer or a killer. I have seen comments that direct her to seek help and where if she needs it.
My child was killed in my abortion. That is the truth.Posted by: carla at June 16, 2010 1:50 PM
"Throwing around the "murderer" and "killer" word aren't going to win the war against abortion."
The untimely demise of your fetus was caused by the direct actions of you and an abortionist.
Better?Posted by: Praxedes at June 16, 2010 2:03 PM
Each woman gets to "her abortion" in a different way. Over 64% of abortions are coerced. Which means that more than half of the women that end up having abortions didn't want them in the first place.
Compassion is needed to speak to these women, men and their families. Our organization helps over 40,000 people a year that are hurting from an abortion, either directly or indirectly. We have found that overall, we don't need to tell them that the life of their child was taken... most of them already know.
How many women on this thread have actually experienced an abortion first hand?
How many of those have gone through a recovery program?
And for those that haven't personally experienced an abortion... why are you so passionate about this issue?Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 16, 2010 2:31 PM
Raises hand for first two questions.
I don't think one need have an abortion to be a passionate prolifer.Posted by: carla at June 16, 2010 3:39 PM
Intellectually knowing that fetuses have limbs is a different thing from seeing your baby, the one who's growing in you right now, and realizing you can count the fingers and toes.
Marauder, this is so true. At 25, I was pregnant with my daughter. I had some unexplained bleeding and I was sent in for an ultrasound at about 11 weeks. What I saw just blew my mind... she was kicking and turning over and I could see a fully formed little body in there!! She was moving all over the place, opening and closing her mouth, and we were just amazed.
I was college educated AND I was the managing director of a CPC at the time. I knew all about fetal development. But to see MY child on that screen was a whole different ballgame. :)
Hi Stacy. :) To answer your questions, I have not experienced an abortion first hand, but I had a childhood friend who had one. We were in church youth group together and we were very close. I have personally walked women through a post-abortion recovery program, though as I said, I've never needed one myself.
Why am I so passionate? Well, what got me involved in the pro-life movement was a video I watched - footage of actual abortions and discarded preborn children. Gruesome footage. It was the Hard Truth video, and it was only 6 minutes long. That was all it took for me. I told the Lord that day, "Whatever You want me to do about this, I'll do it." I believe this issue is THE issue of our time. It doesn't get more fundamental than the right to life.Posted by: Kel at June 16, 2010 4:04 PM
"each woman gets to "her abortion" in a different way."
OK. So we can agree that sugar-coating with one woman may work but calling a spade a spade might get to another woman. Assertiveness is way different than aggressiveness.
"Which means that more than half of the women that end up having abortions didn't want them in the first place."
Which means nearly half of them did make the decision to abort themselves.
"And for those that haven't personally experienced an abortion... why are you so passionate about this issue?"
Friends of mine have aborted, including my best friend. I love them and their abortions greatly negatively affected themselves and everyone around them, these also being people that I love. I was pressured to abort 2 of 3 of my children. This fact added to the stress I was already under. Pain from abortion cuts across the spectrum and hurts all of us, especially women and children. If a sister/daughter/mother/friend turns to alcohol/drugs after an abortion, aren't those around her consequently affected? We are all obligated to defend the defenseless and I refuse to ride the fence on issues that cause the death of humans.
Shouldn't the question be why aren't more people passionate about stopping this holocaust?
I am a passionate/compassionate prolifer because all human life is precious and Christ calls me to
be a part of his Body.
"And for those that haven't personally experienced an abortion... why are you so passionate about this issue?"
Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 16, 2010 2:31 PM
I remember the day Roe v. Wade passed like it was yesterday. It was bad law. Human beings deserve better.Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2010 4:28 PM
I ask the questions to understand the audience in which I am dialoguing. I learned a long time ago that I sometimes have to speak differently with non-post abortive women, than I can with those who have personally laid on the table.
Of those women who have had abortions... women who have gone through an abortion recovery program tend to approach pro-life efforts differently than they did prior to completing the after abortion support group. Women tend to come out of the recovery process with a softer heart and use a more compassionate language (tend not to use the murder and kill word) to approach those that are hurting. It's why our organization is adamant about people completing recovery programs before they "march for life", preach a pro-life message, sidewalk counsel, give their testimonies, etc.
I also have learned that not all pro-life advocates understand the process of Compassionate Abortion Recovery Efforts and what it truly means to reach out to women, men and families that have had emotional trauma due to abortion.
If every pro-life person assume that EVERY PERSON had had an abortion and would approach those with compassion, rather than judgement and condemnation.... then those hurting would be more opt to ask for help. It would expand the Kingdom and provide more workers for the Harvest.
That's why I asked the questions...Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 16, 2010 4:31 PM
How do you address women who do not regret their abortions?
Great question Janet.
I treat everyone I meet as if they have an abortion in their past. I speak compassionately, yet truthfully, as to the pain of my own experience and if appropriate share the pain of others.
My abortion did not affect me the same at the age of 20 as it did at the age of 30, 40 and now almost 50. Each year brought new life issues, that either decreased or increased the grief and trauma of my abortion choices.
So... having that personal roller coaster effect, I gently assume that the women I speak with, who might not AT THAT MINUTE, regret their choice... might someday come to have nightmares, eating disorders, abuse issues, parenting problems, relationship struggles, etc.
If I can educate those "non-affected" post-abortive women with the stories of myself and others.... then, and only then, if that women ever needs help.... she'll be able to relate her post-abortion emotions to her life difficulties and have the knowledge to know that I will not judge or condemn her if she calls.
I NEVER call a woman or man a "murderer or killer". NEVER! Throwing those words out is often perceived as judgement and condemnation. I count on the Lord to brings that issue to the woman's heart ~ when He feels it's time. I had a woman sit in my recovery group, which I was leading, for over 8 weeks before the Lord finally spoke to her about the "life" she ended. I would have normally told her way earlier than that. He knew best and continues to lead women, WHEN THEY ARE READY, to find the help and support they need. My arms are open... when they call, email or meet me for coffee!Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 16, 2010 4:49 PM
One of my favorite compassionate people wasn't one to mince words:
"The greatest destroyer of peace is abortion, because if a mother can kill her own child what is left for me to kill you and you to kill me? There is nothing between." -- Mother Teresa
Thanks Stacy for what you do to help women recover from the affects of their abortions. Peace.
You are in my state! Would love to connect on facebook or email.
Thank you for your reply. Your compassion is admirable. I'm going to save it for future reference/reminder...Posted by: Janet at June 17, 2010 1:48 PM
You're welcome Janet.
The Lord has given me this message for the past decade:
"Stacy... train up the Christian and Pro-life community to have a compassionate and non condemning approach. Help to heal thousands of individuals and families hurting from abortion. I will then use those that are able to help heal others and through the sharing of their personal stories overturn the Roe verdict."
So Janet... it's not me, I'm just following directions girlfriend! :)Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 17, 2010 1:56 PM
For years, whenever I have been ask to speak at banquets, conferences etc, part of the message has always been "change the way you speak about abortion."
I've had many people come up to me and thank me for giving them a new way to talk about abortion.
I give the example "if you are sitting at a family holiday dinner table and the subject of abortion comes up, do you say something like this; "I just don't understand how someone could do that to their own baby" You can see people thinking oh yeah..I've said that. I tell them to instead say something like this, "My heart goes out to those who thought/felt abortion was their only choice." We never know who at the table has had an abortion...including Grandma!Posted by: ann marie at June 17, 2010 2:20 PM
Amen Ann Marie.... another additional point to add while you're sitting at that table is:
"So many abortions are not the true heartfelt choice of the mother or father. So many of those choices then result in grief, and underlying trauma. We should reach out and encourage those that are hurting, directly or indirectly, to find help after abortion. Because I know from speaking to Ann Marie and Stacy that "help" is out there for individuals and families"! :)
(You can leave our names out, I'm just trying to add some humor in here)!Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 17, 2010 2:24 PM
Just throwing this out there. I had joined the group 1,000,000 Against Abortion on Facebook. I would read the articles and links and then some of the threads. I had a really hard time with the way some were talking about postabortive women!!(ME) Sluts, whores, b**ches spreading their legs etc. I tried to be patient and responded quite a few times while trying to find a moderator/group owner. Couldn't find one. Lost my patience. Left the group.
Just like we don't say "All alcoholics are bums." because so many people have been touched by alcoholism, we cannot speak like those around us have not been touched by abortion. What are the stats? 1 in 3 have had them??Posted by: carla at June 17, 2010 2:37 PM
I believe it's our "job" as women who have had abortions, have had healing, who can be open and honest about our abortions to help those in the Pro-life arena speak differently. We are all ignorant about something.
God wants all of us to come to know HIS Mercy,His Love, His peace.
Be open, be aware that someone sitting next to you may have had an abortion.Posted by: ann marie at June 17, 2010 3:27 PM
I use to be "OK" with saying "I murdered my own child" I am not anymore. The reality for me, I took my own childs life through the means of a legal abortion.
What is the difference?
Simple really... I didn't want the abortion, but I felt I had no other choice. I was like an animal stuck in a trap and in order to get out I chewed my leg off...I had an abortion.
I use to say "I am a post-abortive woman" I dont' say that anymore either, however once in a while it slips out, now I say, "I am a woman who had an abortion." I do not allow what I did define me anymore. No woman or man should.Posted by: ann marie at June 17, 2010 3:46 PM
I love you, Ann Marie!! :)
Abortion is something I have done, not who I am.Posted by: carla at June 17, 2010 3:51 PM
Sometimes I wonder if some people believe "You made your bed now lie in it."
I am fogiven, healed and set free.
Carla, I love you too. Stacy I love you too. I have experienced life with both of you and I am blessed for it.Posted by: ann marie at June 17, 2010 4:38 PM
I appreciate hearing comments from women who have had an abortion. I talk to teens on the topic (some who I know may have already had an abortion). I try my best to be kind but firm as well. I don't directly call people killers or murderers but I don't refrain from using those words either. I refer to my own sins before anything else but never downplay the seriousness of abortion either.
I totally get not calling anyone a killer or murderer or a drunk, etc. (to say nothing of all the other terrible names women are typically called -- eek!).
Carla, Ann Marie, and Stacy, But do you believe even using the word kill and murder in regards to discussions of abortion is counter-productive? What about things like bumper stickers (I have a Mother Teresa one and notice many people stopping to read it). I believe it makes a difference (like in Mother Teresa's case) based on the example she led that she is able to be a bit more firm than someone who uses these words but leads a less than Christian life.
Is a truth truck that states "Crist Ultrasound Veto Kills More than Legislation" a positive or negative to our movement? I think of Todd protesting churches and totally believe he was called to the movement in spite of other prolifers disagreeing with his actions. I think it is a fine line and we all need to be aware that God calls us all for different roles.
"So Janet... it's not me, I'm just following directions girlfriend! :)" Stacy, I too am called by the same Spirit but in a different capacity.Posted by: Praxedes at June 17, 2010 4:51 PM
There's a huge difference between referring to abortion as murder or killing and calling a woman who has had an abortion a murderer or killer.
I cried a lot on my first Rachel's Vineyard retreat, and I went home feeling so much lighter and safer than the day I arrived, and thinking that was it. Over the next couple of years I gradually learned that the weekend's tears were only the tip of the iceberg--an apt metaphor because I had been frozen for so long regarding what had happened to me in 1987. I see those first tears as more relief than anything else. The depths of understanding and grief took much, much longer to reach, and who knows if I'm done yet.
Parts of my healing were actually greatly aided by coming to understand more fully exactly what happened in my womb on the day of my abortion--that a tiny, once-only unique human being with a heartbeat and limbs and a face was (forgive me but saying it any other way seems inauthentic) killed in my womb. It hurt like hell and I cried until my eyes were raw but one night I sat down alone and watched The Silent Scream on the Internet. That experience and others like it helped me more than anything else to turn my self-destructive anger into righteous anger directed toward those who should have known better than I did what they were doing to me that day but did it anyway rather than offer me the real help I needed.
It is, in my opinion, absolutely essential to call abortion exactly what it is when "speaking truth to power."
Even the most seemingly cold-hearted-on-the-surface woman who has had an abortion (or several) has been, in my view, corrupted by that power, whatever form it took in her life, into believing that abortion is a valid choice. Calling even such a woman a murderer is a thoughtless and heartless gesture. At the same time, how will her heart ever change if she never hears a believable and embraceable version of the truth?Posted by: Alice at June 17, 2010 6:16 PM
I do not call women who have had abortions murderers or killers. Name calling never goes well. I do believe in honest questions that make people think and sharing what I have learned lo these many years.
I also believe in speaking the truth about my experience. My daughter died. She was killed in my abortion. She was alive in my womb when I walked into that abortion clinic. She died and I left her there. I didn't want an abortion but I paid for it and suffered for years under the weight of shame and guilt of what I had done.
No more!!! :)
Posted by: carla
at June 17, 2010 7:36 PM
How can you claim to "not understand" a medical procedure you paid to undergo? Were you sedated and forcefully strapped to metal stirrups?
If a woman is remorseful, she was coerced into having an abortion. If she doesn't regret it, she's a monster. The narrative is so predictable.
If you regret something, take ownership of it. I'm not sure about you, but I had to speak with a nurse twice before my abortion. She counseled me on my options and did her best to ensure that nobody was forcing me into any decision. My partner was not allowed in the room with us, even. I'd like to think I had the wherewithall to make my own choices.Posted by: Megan at June 18, 2010 9:07 AM
Who called anyone a monster? Name some names. Call em out, Megan.
I was told it was a bunch of cells. I believed it.
I was lied to by omission and found out the hard way when I held my miscarried baby in my hand.
Other women I know where held down and forced to abort.
Some choice, huh Megan?
It would seem that you do not understand a woman's journey of abortion recovery. I certainly do OWN IT, sweet pea. I will always regret not telling the abortion clinic staff to go to he** and saving my daughter's life.Posted by: carla at June 18, 2010 10:25 AM
Not to cause confusion here. I aborted when I was 10 weeks along. 5 years later I had a miscarriage and held my 10 week old baby in my hand. Hardly a bunch of cells.Posted by: carla at June 18, 2010 10:26 AM
As I see it, anyone who doesn't regret and mourn her abortion doesn't really understand what she did and therefore wasn't adequately counseled. If you weren't told that the abortion would end the life of your child, then you weren't told the truth. Period. Anyone who did fully realize that her child would be put to death by her abortion was either in some form of denial or was being coerced in some way, whether physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, or some combination thereof. Part of the tragedy is that our laws, much of our culture, and even some of our churches don't protect women from themselves or from those who would would misinform and coerce them. Abortion is a false choice, a false decision, and is nothing to be proud of. I'm not.Posted by: Alice at June 18, 2010 10:49 AM
Megan I directed/produced "Valerie" go to www.youtube.com search silentnomoremn valerie. There you will hear a story of just one woman who was not given a "choice" because YES some women are not allowed to change their minds/hearts and leave.
I also produced the film "In the Wake of Choice"...many testimonies of different people.
All of us who have gone through healing have taken responsiblity and have "ownership" of the choice to abort our children...however through our healing we have come to realize not all the blame should rest on our shoulders. If you don't regret your abortion then you don't but if you ever do then there are lots and lots of healing ministries willing to help you through the healing process.
Most women don't really want to abort their babies...but because they feel they have no other choice...they abort. So if a woman feels she has no other choice then there is no choice. Simple as that.Posted by: ann marie at June 18, 2010 10:50 AM
Ladies we need to take into consideration that some of us had abortions decades ago and were not privy to ultrasounds, hearing the heart beat, etc.
The younger women here, or those who chose abortion more recently that right after abortion was legalized.... mayb have been given the chance (depending on location and clinic) to have witnessed those opportunities to see, hear or even feel their baby in the womb.
I would be more than happy to discuss with any of you, even host a webinar training for those who wish to learn how to further educate society on this touchy and sensitive issue.
If you are interested, email me at: firstname.lastname@example.org and we'll schedule a conference call or webinar class.Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 18, 2010 10:54 AM
For those have been hurt by abortion having access to healing resources is a good thing wouldn't you agree?
Someday IF you find yourself struggling the resources will be there for you too.Posted by: carla at June 18, 2010 11:18 AM
Stacy, in 1983 I knew it was a baby, having been raised Catholic. But the point you made about more recent abortions with the abiltiy to see the ultrasound and such is a good point and it made me think that there may be another layer to this issue. That being when a woman/girl comes to regret her abortion, no matter the time laspe after the abortion, they will not be able to get the image out of their mind, the sound of the heartbeat.
Many women I have talk to say the memory of the abortion does not always show up right away...years later they will start to remember and it does haunt them.
So you can have an abortion today and be fine and one day you hit a wall and it all comes at you. In a weird way I am really glad I didn't see an ultra sound (which could have saved my baby)...and abort...I could not have handled it mentally. The image of that beating heart...arms/legs...I was 12 weeks if not over and showing.Posted by: ann marie at June 18, 2010 11:56 AM
I was six weeks along and I did see an ultrasound. I even asked to see the screen. That experience convinced me even more that I was making the right decision. The image in front of me: a small lump with no discernible features, an embryo, my future child, without the ability to feel pain, live outside my body.
Today most abortions occur in the first trimester. I am sorry for those of you who sought second trimester abortions. If I had waited longer, began sharing more and more of my body with this other life, perhaps I would have felt that this entity was beginning to have a vested interest in the world, one that I would have had to honor. But at six weeks, no.
If I regret what I did someday, I am not going to fault the clinic for not having provided me with a detailed description of fetal development. I wasn't victimized. I think you should give women more credit than that. It is insulting to be compared to an animal trying desperately to chew its leg off.Posted by: Megan at June 18, 2010 1:45 PM
How did your abortion help you, Megan? How has it made your life richer? How has abortion empowered you as a woman?
It is beyond insulting to not be told the truth about my developing child and coerced into an abortion I didn't want. One choice(abortion)isn't choice.
I give credit to women who seek help and support and care at CPC's and give their children life even in what we would consider desperate situations. I give women credit who are considering abortion but after seeing the ultrasound choose life and 9 short months later give birth.
Bethany is a moderator here. She had a miscarriage at 6 weeks. Here are the pictures of her precious baby.
A lump does not have fingers, toes, arms, legs, hands, head, eyes and a mouth.Posted by: carla at June 18, 2010 2:02 PM
"The image in front of me: a small lump with no discernible features"
You don't have any discernible features to me either. Doesn't mean I don't know that you are fully human.
Peace.Posted by: Praxedes at June 18, 2010 3:42 PM
My abortion hasn't made my life "richer," and I don't think I implied that it has. I didn't ask for the condom to break or Plan B to fail. Guess I was in that unlucky 15th percentile. This is an inane argument. Do you think my abortion was FUN?
I am empowered because I can talk about my experience freely and without shame. I wasn't delusional with grief or fear, and nobody--not my mother, boyfriend, professors, etc--persuaded me to make any particular decision. I'm sure there are women who do make irrational decisions, but the same goes for people seeking other medical procedures. To state that all women who choose abortion are coerced or delusional really does a disservice to women as a group. This line of reasoning: deep down, women desire to be mothers, and only external constaints prevent them from doing so at a particular time. Crazy babykillers, they must be restrained, even if by those nice CPC volunteers.
Carla, how exactly were you coerced?Posted by: Megan at June 18, 2010 6:38 PM
Pretty sure we have been over this, eh Megs?
Say what you will about my abortion story.Posted by: carla at June 18, 2010 7:02 PM
Did you see the photos of Blessing, Megan?Posted by: carla at June 18, 2010 7:19 PM
"It is insulting to be compared to an animal trying desperately to chew its leg off." Not to me it isn't, Megan. Because that's exactly how I felt. You had and have had a particular experience (so far), and you want to be respected for that. There are so, so many of us who have experienced abortion and its aftermath differently than you have (so far). Please consider showing us the respect we deserve too. Anything else feels like an insult to me, and for better or worse, I don't react well to insults. Our experiences are real and valid, and some of us have been, more or less, where you are now but grew beyond it, which is why we believe it is possible for any woman to get to that stage eventually. It would indeed have made a world of difference for me if 23 years ago I would have been told and shown the truth and offered real, concrete alternatives from people who supposedly loved me. That's the truth. Period.Posted by: Alice at June 18, 2010 7:38 PM
Alice, I'm sure you feel grief. However, I believe that many of the post-abortive posters here have been lulled into a sense of victimization. The narratives change over time: I did this thing I regret, now in my abstract rage I am going to point fingers at the every-gristly "abortion mill" for not convincing me to pursue another course of action...? Whether you believe in abortion or not, this kind of thinking is NOT empowering:
"Part of the tragedy is that our laws, much of our culture, and even some of our churches don't protect women from themselves" (Alice).
Again the implication that pregnant women are universally desparate and irrational. As I write this, that terrible "Pink" song runs through my head: "I'm a hazard to myself." Really? If women--despite our fears, apprehensions, etc--can't be assumed capable of making decisions for ourselves, then how could we ever be capable mothers?
Carla, I've seen Blessing, and I haven't had a conversion experience yet. I am sure Bethany was upset at the loss of her (wanted) pregnancy, as you are with yours. Right now, though, I'm fine. I'll tell you when I hit the wall and start blaming my boyfriend for not putting me on lockdown the morning of my abortion apppointment.Posted by: Megan at June 18, 2010 11:48 PM
I wasn't looking for a conversion experience. I was refuting "the small lump with no discernible features" comment. But then you went off in another direction about how Bethany might have felt.(I have had two miscarriages so I know that pain as well.)
You are so completely dismissive of the real pain of others abortion experience. There are four women on this thread telling you about their experience of abortion and you only sound condescending. Our stories are irrefutable.
You have no idea the years it has taken to get to where I am today. You have no idea the work and the struggle. Maybe in 20 years you will, Megan. Maybe not.
Until then it would be nice if you would just accept the fact that women can and do regret their abortions and speak out after they have found healing. Reaching out for that help is what empowers us to tell the world how abortion has hurt us.
I am not a victim. I have survived the most horrifying experience of my life!! I am thankful to be alive! Grateful for a husband and four amazing children! Happy I woke up to a new day today! Excited for the picnic my family has planned!!
I am not here for you btw Megs. There are women struggling right now after their abortions and they DO want help, they are reading this thread.
National Helpline for Abortion Recovery
You remind me so much of myself after my abortion Megan.
Posted by: carla
at June 19, 2010 6:38 AM
Oh one more thing.
Informed consent means giving a woman ALL of the information about her developing child before she makes an irreversible decision like abortion. Information on possible risks and description of the procedure and giving her the opportunity to see the ultrasound. (not on antiquated equipment either)
I wouldn't have major surgery today if I was told nothing about it. "Carla, let's get you in for that open heart surgery. You ready?"
I got none of the above at the abortion clinic. How did not telling me anything about what I was going to do empower me??? How did hiding the truth empower me to make the best decision for me??? The truth that I have learned over the years of being pregnant, reasearching fetal development, delivering my second child into my hand at 10 weeks, seeing ultrasounds, giving birth.....Posted by: carla at June 19, 2010 7:07 AM
"I'll tell you when I hit the wall and start blaming my boyfriend for not putting me on lockdown the morning of my abortion apppointment."
What is being said underneath this statement is very telling.
Of course BF didn't put you in lockdown. Most adults are indifferent to toys.Posted by: Praxedes at June 19, 2010 9:13 AM
"You remind me so much of myself after my abortion Megan."
How is THAT not condescending? It really isn't my intention to trivialize anyone's pain. But seriously, though, it IS paternalistic to presume a psychological trajectory for me.
From women around me I've heard good and bad. Regardless I won't claim they were out of their minds when they had their abortions.Posted by: Megan at June 19, 2010 9:22 AM
I was in Megan's position. I had an abortion, and at first I was happy to just be done with it--honestly. But after I had time to think about it, I actually felt degraded. I had to abort a baby I'd have been happy to stay pregnant with if I had ANY support. My parents are judgmental and materialistic (I'm sure they'd have been horrified about what the neighbors/relatives/friends were thinking). The guy was not to be trusted. Those aren't good reasons for abortion.
I'm sure some women do not regret it. But it's the feminist position to respect the ones who do.Posted by: Ashley Herzog at June 19, 2010 10:08 AM
The truth is I felt like you after my abortion, Megan.
I wasn't out of my mind when I had my abortion. I was desperate and alone and afraid. Kind of like the young girls I help and support when they find themselves in unplanned pregnancies.Posted by: carla at June 19, 2010 1:11 PM
Megan, the clinic I went to for my pregnancy test in 1987 should have explained to me that there was a tiny, beginning human being (not potential but actual) living and developing in my womb. They should have told me that at that point, seven weeks, my child had a heartbeat and its own blood and circulatory system. They should have told me that an abortion would stop that heartbeat and end my child's vulnerable and dependent life. They should have explained that the abortion could damage my reproductive organs so that I could not ever get pregnant again (which I couldn't). They could have talked to me about my situation and fears. They could have helped me to find financial and other practical as well as emotional and spiritual help. But they didn't. So, I do indeed point at least one of my ten fingers at the "gristly abortion mill" for "not convincing me to pursue another course of action." To convince is not the same as to coerce. To convince is to use facts and real information to appeal to a woman's reason and sense of morality. To convince is to reassure, and yes, to empower. To withhold facts and information is most certainly NOT empowering. Neither is profound regret and grief, especially when one is not allowed to express those feelings for 20 years.
No one here has said that "pregnant women are universally desperate and irrational." Of course not! But women who find themselves pregnant and don't want to be or women whose husband or boyfriend or parent doesn't want them to be pregnant or women who learn that their child has or might have some sort of health issue often do indeed feel desperate and irrational. As an analogy, if a person who is not pregnant is feeling desperate and irrational and either suicidal or homicidal, don't we do everything we can to keep that person from harming herself or others? Why shouldn't we try to do the same for a pregnant woman?
I wish with all my heart, mind, and soul that someone, anyone, had kept me, somehow, from doing what I did in 1987. By saying that, I am not denying my own responsibility. I DID IT. But even one person could have stopped me, and I would have been eternally grateful.Posted by: Alice at June 20, 2010 1:45 PM
Megan wrote "To state that all women who choose abortion are coerced or delusional really does a disservice to women as a group."
Megan, I didn't imply this and I don't know anyone who does so I don't know where you got it from. However, most abortion are coerced, either by boyfriend,husband, parents or life circumstance i.e. school, money, insurance etc.Posted by: ann marie at June 20, 2010 9:48 PM
Megan wrote "Alice, I'm sure you feel grief. However, I believe that many of the post-abortive posters here have been lulled into a sense of victimization."
WOW...so much for women knowing themselves. So for you women who don't regret their abortions are together but women who do are "Lulled into a sense of victimization"
Megan, those of us who speak out about our regret have passed through the wall of pain you have not hit (yet?) and have come through the other side of a truth we have had to look at...WE are responisblily for the taking of our childrens lives through the means of abortion whether legal or illegal.
If you ever hit that wall there is help; always with open arms and understanding. For many who feel as you do, the idea of reaching out for help, maybe harder when that time comes. I don't know it's something I will start asking through. Maybe others here who can identify with you, can chime in. I simply can't. Up until I had received A LOT of healing from the moment of even thinking of aborting, I was in pain and regret.Posted by: ann marie at June 20, 2010 10:03 PM
My intention is not to silence women who regret their abortions. Ashley is right: it's unfeminist to tell women to simply suck it up, to disregard the mitigating factors that can lead women to abortion. I think it's tragic that many of you women would have kept your babies had you had more options. I support shelters, Medicaid, WIC, Head Start, Title X family planning programs (which, by the way, cannot receive federal funding for abortion). I gladly pay taxes to support these programs. I envision a world where women can have babies when they want them.
But you can't accomplish this goal by outlawing abortion. The simple fact is that sometimes there is no question of if: if I had more money, a more supportive partner, less judgmental parents, no school to complete. I support your efforts in supporting women who want to keep their pregnancies, Carla, but your narrative is not mine. Say I am young and delusional (Lord help me)--what about older post-abortive women who tell you they have no regrets? It's insane to discount their testimonies as the product of delusional she-monsters. Insane because it's paternalistic, and also insane because you're cutting yourself off from a vital fount of womanly solidarity. A nasty secret: pro-choice women don't hate babies! We WANT women to have children. When they want.Posted by: Megan at June 20, 2010 11:13 PM
I do not discount women who do not regret. I do not assume that your narrative is mine.
I do not care what you think of me or my story. It is what it is.
I do speak about my abortion experience whenever I get the chance because it shines a light on the very real pain and trauma and grief of women like me. For those that think abortion has no consequences my story refutes that, just as the stories of thousands of other women like me.
I stand with my I Regret My Abortion sign, Megan. I hear this all the time
"Well, I don't regret mine!!" I ask you, how does that in ANY WAY refute my story? It does not. Make your own sign. :)
My fave comment??
"Well, you shouldn't have had one then!!"
Golly gee whiz fire up the Delorean and let's head on back to Sept. 5th 1990, Marty McFly! Let's undo that abortion, shall we??!!
If I don't regret something I don't continually say that I don't regret it. (Hi Erin)Posted by: carla at June 21, 2010 7:53 AM
I had a woman tell me once in recovery group:.....
After abortion trauma is like being in a car driving toward a brick wall.... sometimes you hit the wall quickly.... sometimes it takes you a while to get to there"!
It was a great analogy.Posted by: Stacy Massey ~ Abortion Recovery InterNational at June 21, 2010 9:34 AM
I nodded my head to everything you said, Carla, until the last line, the typical underhanded comment.Posted by: Megan at June 21, 2010 9:50 AM
Megan how many women have you talked to who said, "for years I didn't regret my abortion, then one day I hit a wall."
That is our (those of us in healing work/speaking out) experience, so how can we not think it possible that every woman can hit that wall? What is different between you and a woman who hit the wall after years of "being" ok with her choice? You may some day hit that wall...you just have not yet.
How do you know that upon every woman's deathbed, who didn't regret her abortion all her life, finally realize something... she was in denial? And the truth struck her so painful at the moment of death.
Just because someone seems to doing ok today with the abortion does not mean they will in the future..or the end.
Try to see it from our point of view, that being we have talked to thousands of women who didn't regret their abortions and then one day they hit a wall. This is revealed over and over again.Posted by: ann marie at June 21, 2010 10:16 AM
Typical underhanded comment? Try observation, Megan.
It was just a thought that popped into my head. When I do not regret something, I do not continually bring it up and say I don't regret it. I forget those things I do not regret.
Erin is a sweet young lady that pops on here now and again to tell me, "Still don't regret it."
I am encouraged though, Megan that you were nodding your head in agreement to my comments,(Except the last line) :)Posted by: carla at June 21, 2010 10:34 AM
I once read an article about elderly ladies that were dying and were struggling greatly and once they confessed their abortions that were done 40-50+ years before they found peace before they died.
I will have to dig and see if I can find it.Posted by: carla at June 21, 2010 10:36 AM
I bet any priest or pastor would be able to tell you how many deathbed confessions to abortion they hear...and not just the women who had them. The father of the baby, the parents, the friend who encouraged the abortion or paid for it or drove them to the abortion clinic.
As a Christian I believe it's ok to assume all women will come to regret their abortions as we, upon our death, are given the opportunity to see how our choices affected our lives. God will make that judgement.Posted by: ann marie at June 21, 2010 11:02 AM
I supported legal abortion long before I had mine. Intellectually legal abortion made sense, and now that I've been through it, I feel that it's even more important to be a vocal advocate for keeping the procedure legal and safe.
Oh, and Praxedes: just noticed the jab. Very clever...because a woman can never desire sex or an abortion.Posted by: Megan at June 21, 2010 11:12 AM
Safe for whom?
It is never safe for the baby. Yours or mine, Megan.
How did your abortion help you?
Megan, if and when you hit that wall it won't be because you came out of the denial that abortion hurt you...it's because you come out of denial that a baby died. A baby who had the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. A baby who had a right to his/her own unique life no matter the highs and lows of it. A baby who had a right to have it's own seeking of God.
Women who hit the wall do so because they realize their own child died and they made that choice. Period.Posted by: ann marie at June 21, 2010 11:50 AM
My apologies Megan. My comment was sexist. Of course women desire sex as do men. Dealing with the consequences of desires without causing the death of others is in my book a healthy goal.
So in the proabort world, maybe the stereotypical roles are reversed and men are treated as playthings. After all, proabort women don't think men should be allowed to have a say in whether or not the child that they had an equal part bringing about gets to live or die but then expect them to be outspoken for them. Talk about a jab.
I am embarrassed that our gender fought for this sort of 'equal rights'. Women don't like being treated as toys so why did we think men would? The men who do support your side either are making money off of abortion or are shirking from their responsibilities.
Abortion hasn't brought equal rights, it just made women more barbaric.Posted by: Praxedes at June 21, 2010 11:56 AM
Abortion hasn't brought equal rights, it just made women more barbaric.
Posted by: Praxedes at June 21, 2010 11:56 AM
So true.Posted by: Kel at June 21, 2010 12:53 PM
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face, Praxedes. Great reasoning. Men are really just.so.disadvantaged. Maybe we should outlaw abortion solely on the grounds of protecting fatherhood. Gah. But seriously, find me evidence showing that pro-choicers do not support honest, open dialogue between couples regarding family planning. Where in the Planned Parenthood brochure are men banned from the waiting room? As a pro-choice woman I believe all aspects of family planning should be discussed between the couple. But the bottom line is, the final decision on birth or abortion should be the woman's.
There's a link between cries against abortion, the US's maternal mortality rate, the frequency of C-sections, a breast cancer movement centered more on medical cure than prevention. This country clearly does not believe its women can make health-related decisions for themselves.Posted by: Megan at June 21, 2010 2:52 PM
Ah, and Carla, this is the predictable part. I answer your question, you or somebody else tells me how selfish I am, and the argument against abortion no longer centers around its psychological sequelae, but harm to the fetus. And then we're back at square one.
I don't argue that I'm selfish. I also think motherhood can be a selfish pursuit. In my case I didn't want to be pregnant. That desire alone trumped my embryo's claims on existence.Posted by: Megan at June 21, 2010 3:03 PM
Megan wrote, "I don't argue that I'm selfish. I also think motherhood can be a selfish pursuit. In my case I didn't want to be pregnant. That desire alone trumped my embryo's claims on existence."
Megan these words may come back to you and if they do there is help. Just letting you know.
At 6 weeks your baby was no longer an embryo she/he had a heart beat, little arms, legs, a spine...did you look at Carla's link to Bethanys baby pictures?Posted by: ann marie at June 21, 2010 3:29 PM
Yes. I am sooooooo predictable. How about you answer the question and see what happens?
How about you tell me if the promises of abortion held true for you?
If you wanted to pursue schooling has that happened for you? Is your career what you thought it would be?
Did abortion deliver what it promised to?
Posted by: carla
at June 21, 2010 3:32 PM
Abortion promised me a Yale med school diploma and riches and fame and a cameo appearance in the newest lady gaga movie. What do you think?
No, abortion let me continue my little life as...sort of planned. I established myself in a new (kinda cold, kinda very far away from my former life) state with my longterm partner; completed a year of graduate school; attempted to be a dutiful daughter to my parents, who are nearing retirement; and maintained solid relationships with the friends who live so far from me right now. Yep, your stereotypical, self-aggrandizing career girl.Posted by: Megan at June 21, 2010 11:19 PM
There. That wasn't so hard was it? I heart snarkiness so you had me at your first sentence.
How many years ago was your abortion?
You don't have to answer my questions but if you are going to keep posting here I like to know something about you so I don't have to keep wondering or keep asking.
a year and a half ago.Posted by: Megan at June 22, 2010 8:42 PM
Thanks, Megan. I have been a moderator here for 2 years. My abortion will be 20 years ago on Sept. 5th. I will be running a triathlon in Aubrey's memory and to raise funds for the Pregnancy Care Center near me.
I have a husband and four crazy kids.
There. Now you know something about me. Fair is fair. :)
I like you, Megan and I do appreciate your voice here.Posted by: carla at June 22, 2010 9:10 PM
Well thanks. I've also read your blog, and--not to score points with compliments--it's very funny. I keep trying to equip my mother with a website and a digital camera, but she's a luddite through and through.Posted by: Megan at June 22, 2010 10:13 PM
Thank you, Megan. No. You did not score any points. That is against the rules. :)
I do have a lot of fun there. My kids do some of the most bizarre things and I am not a scrapbooker so I just write and take pictures.
what is a luddite???
Good night, Megan.Posted by: carla at June 22, 2010 10:25 PM
Megan, as I have said before many women I have met did not regret their abortions until they hit "the wall". It takes on average 8-10 years before it starts to irritate their subconscious. Many women make comments like, " I had a nervous breakdown", "I crashed and burned" etc...but a very dear friend of mine said this. "it's not your nerves breaking down it's your subconscious awakening."
I truly hope you have gotten the message that if you ever hit the wall of pain, there is hope and healing for you too. Even as you stand firm in your convictions today. We are never the same person today as we will be tomorrow. Things change. We change.