Following up on my May 1 post indicating Republicans at a House Subcommittee on Health planned that day to broach the topic of post-abortion depression during a hearing on post-partum depression, CQ Healtheat News reported:
Democrats clashed with Republicans at a House hearing Tuesday over the injection of the abortion issue into discussion of a long-pending bill to counter postpartum depression....
[Bill sponsor IL Dem. Bobby] Rush ... said the legislation is needed because each year, 400,000 women suffer from mood changes after they give birth, ranging from "the baby blues," to incapacitating postpartum depression to postpartum psychosis, which he said strikes one in 1,000 new mothers....
Republican Nathan Deal of Georgia... added that more should be known about all aspects of depression resulting from the termination of a pregnancy.
Deal's reference to abortion triggered a rebuke from Colorado Democrat Diana DeGette [photo right], who called the reference "offensive." She said she'd be glad to debate the abortion rights issue on its own merits, but not at Tuesday's hearing.
DeGette said established medical professional groups have not recognized post-abortion depression as a clinical condition. American women have waited far too long for action on postpartum depression to have the hearing on the issue diverted into â€œpolitical theatre, she added.
DeGette's use of the term "offensive" brought a rare flash of anger from the by then grim-faced Deal, who asked DeGette whether she would yield. "I will not," DeGette declared....
Deal later defended his reference to abortion by noting witness testimony concerning instances of depression following the abortion procedure.
Objectively speaking, how is broaching the topic of post-abortion depression "offensive"? If it indeed exists, pro-aborts like DeGette are making matters worse by labeling it so and also by insinuating such feelings do not exist, and are invalid if they do.
DeGette was also unconscionably insensitive to the witness present to testify about her incapacitating post-abortion depression.
please look up my past posts regarding depressions related to pregnancy .... according to Dr. Patrick Dunn ... this depression seems to be just a continuation of the depression of the 3rd trimester. There is a glitch of euphoria at birth - likely related to endorphin release - then the postpartum depression again ensues, driving the mother into deeper despondency.
All these times precisely correlated with very high zinc use of a developing child ... ref. "Zinc and Copper in Medicine" eds. Sarper and Karcioglu ... there is likely post-abortion depression too because the modalities of abortion all require zinc to heal ... besides there are all kinds of hormones designed to the continuing development of the child. What happens to these special chemicals ... is the body still 'pregnant' even after the removal "of-the-womb's-contents"?Posted by: John McDonell at May 3, 2007 6:07 PM
I support research on women's emotional responses after abortion, but $15M seems inflated to me. To pay for what? Patients filling out questionnaires?Posted by: SoMG at May 3, 2007 6:21 PM
If this is a women's health issue, and there are women that feel they need help with depression, why is this even a debate? oh, depression after abortion doesn't really exist. right. I heard this after mine.
btw, how much of our tax dollars go to Planned Parenthood? now, maybe if THEY got the money to do research...do you think it would pass w/o debate then? hm.
I imagine if it passes the bulk of the $ would go to Guttmacher. They're the ones that the abortion docs talk to, and clearly the best qualified to do this sort of research.Posted by: SoMG at May 3, 2007 7:58 PM
Janet, did you suffer from any depression after your abortion? I was just curious.Posted by: Heather4life at May 3, 2007 8:18 PM
I can't even imagine how horrible it is for women who have depression after abortion and then hear from the very people who said abortion was okay that they must of had problems before the abortion.
I will admit something that is extrememly difficult for me. I was relieved when my first miscarriage happened. We had always planned on having 2 children, but I was 2 months pregnant on my sons 1st birthday. 2 children under the age of 2 seemed overwhelming to me. About 1 month after the miscarriage, I went into a huge depression. I felt as if I had wished my baby away. I really wonder how much different this is from a woman who has an abortion? I would actually think it would be worse than what I felt. Abortion was a momentary thought in my mind, but I couldn't do it. What about the people who do have the abortion? Everyone told me my depression was understandable. That my feelings were normal. I was supported when I got help. And now we have politians who find it "offensive" to discuss this topic during female depression due to pregnancy. I don't see how this is offensive? I got the help I needed because my depression was recognized. A woman who has an abortion has just as much of a right to get depressed as I did.
Makes no sense to me.Posted by: Valerie at May 3, 2007 8:49 PM
Valerie, I feel for you. I know that overwhelming feeling all too well myself. My 2nd pregnancy was from an abusive man. I was not too thrilled to find out that we were pregnant the second time.Posted by: Heather4life at May 3, 2007 9:05 PM
SOMG, 7:58p, said: I imagine if it passes the bulk of the $ would go to Guttmacher. They're the ones that the abortion docs talk to, and clearly the best qualified to do this sort of research."
SOMG, you must be tired tonight. Guttmacher should get $ to study post-abortion depression because of its cozy relationship with abortion docs?! Come again?
Second, Guttmacher, as the research arm of the US's largest abortion provider, Planned Parenthood, has already spun abortion as giving women "greater self-esteem." Guttmacher is not real credible or likely desirous to study this.Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 3, 2007 9:08 PM
Wow, his arguments are getting lamer and lamer. He used to actually seem somewhat clever. Wonder if someone else is using his account or if he's just losing it?Posted by: Bethany at May 3, 2007 10:35 PM
So let me see if I understand you--you're suggesting we should study women's emotional responses to abortion without involving the abortion doctors? Who else is going to distribute the questionnaires to the patients? How are you going to find your group?Posted by: SoMG at May 3, 2007 11:04 PM
What I mean is, where are you going to recruit your subjects, if not with the cooperation of the abortion docs or providing institutions?
Because if what your proposing is more of the BS that for instance David Reardon does, drawing his study sample from members of WEBA and other self-selecting quasi-religious organizations and then trying to generalize to the whole population, then we should just scrap the whole idea. Richard Mellon Scaife funds that garbage already well-past the point of diminishing returns.
If you seriously want to study women's emotional responses to their abortions, you need a representative cross section of women getting abortions.Posted by: SoMG at May 3, 2007 11:29 PM
SoMg, There are a lot of web sites that confirm pain after abortion. I will be very honest in telling you that one of my girlfriends had an abortion and claims to have no regrets. So be it. However, there are countless others that DO feel pain. That's why there are sites like Silent No More, Rachel's Vineyard, and Safe haven Ministries. You can't trivialize some one's pain. My other girlfriend will burst into tears whenever the subject of abortion is mentioned.She is not able to discuss hers.She is a wonderful person that admits to making a terrible mistake.One day she cried so long and hard, I just held her.Posted by: Heather4life at May 4, 2007 6:00 AM
1. Abortionists who make their living off abortions are going to distribute questionnaires to patients who become angry by what the abortionist just did?
2. Abortionists are going to send questionnaires to their entire population of patients, and by so doing draw lawsuits as patients recall and realize they were not told of all the harms of abortion?
You're such a low life prostitute, SOMG.Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 4, 2007 7:47 AM
If you seriously want to study women's emotional responses to their abortions, you need a representative cross section of women getting abortions.
Are you volunteering?Posted by: MK at May 4, 2007 10:01 AM
Does anyone know what percentage of abortions are done by doctors who are mostly "abortion doctors" (i.e., they do little else) compared to abortions done by practicing OB/GYNs?
There seems to be an assumption that most abortions are done at abortions clinics. That may be true. Do we know?Posted by: Hal at May 4, 2007 11:36 AM
Hal, according to Guttmacher:
"Abortions are performed at clinics (833 nationwide, representing 46% of providers), hospitals (603, representing 33% of providers) and physicians’ offices (383, representing 21% of providers)."Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 4, 2007 11:57 AM
thanks Jill. That, along with the next fact, answers my question:
The vast majority of U.S. abortions (93%) are performed at clinics. The remaining procedures take place at hospitals (5% of abortions) and physicians’ offices (2% of abortions).
It appears that the "clinic" experience is by far the most common. I would have thought that most abortions were not performed by doctors "who make their living performing abortions." I guess most are.
I understand there is an OB/GYN shortage in many places, I wonder if the "abortion doctors" would be able to find other work if the demand for abortion declined or if they are financially interested in seeing demand remain?Posted by: Hal at May 4, 2007 12:08 PM
Hal, I've written about abortionists and many if not most are not ob/gyns. They truly are bottom of the barrel slime doctors who failed in the real medical world.Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 4, 2007 1:00 PM
No one can be happy about that.Posted by: Hal at May 4, 2007 1:06 PM
That's the first truly intelligent thing I have ever heard you say.
mkPosted by: MK at May 4, 2007 1:08 PM
Didn't you say that you and your wife had 2 abortions? Where were they performed?
mkPosted by: MK at May 4, 2007 1:09 PM
yes MK, we went to the same very kind and talented OB/GYN who delivered our children.
I have no knowledge of the clinic experience. I'm sure it varies widely. The horror stories are truly horrible.
From my point of view, it's an argument to upgrade abortion services in this country. From yours, an argument (another argument) to end abortion.
Posted by: Hal
at May 4, 2007 1:19 PM
Jill, you wrote: "1. Abortionists who make their living off abortions are going to distribute questionnaires to patients who become angry by what the abortionist just did?
2. Abortionists are going to send questionnaires to their entire population of patients, and by so doing draw lawsuits as patients recall and realize they were not told of all the harms of abortion?"
1. Why would objective questionnaires on the patient's emotional responses to her abortion cause the patient to become angry?
2. No, the abortion docs would recruit patients into the study, asking them if they would like to participate. Why would this encourage lawsuits?
As long as the questionnaires are truly objective, the abortion docs would have no reason to be hostile to them.Posted by: SoMG at May 4, 2007 1:33 PM
Also, Jill, you wrote: " I've written about abortionists... They truly are bottom of the barrel slime doctors who failed in the real medical world."
Where did you get this idea? It's not true.Posted by: SoMG at May 4, 2007 1:35 PM
SOMG, prove it.Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 4, 2007 1:40 PM
Jill, you made the assertion, you prove it. You can't because you made it up.Posted by: SoMG at May 4, 2007 1:47 PM
Guys, this can't really be proved or disproved. The mush part is "many or most." No doubt some docs who do abortions are top of the line medical providers, no doubt some are scum. The vast majority are somewhere in between and there is no way I can think of to quantify that.Posted by: Hal at May 4, 2007 2:00 PM
Does anyone know what percentage of OB/GYN's that will do abortions for non-medical reasons? (rape being medical)
My OB/GYN said that he doesn't know any that would do it for birth control. But he does work at a Catholic hospital so I don't know how many doc's he actually talks to about this outside of the hospital.Posted by: Valerie at May 4, 2007 6:18 PM
That's a good ? Valerie. I would like to knoe the answer to that too.Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 7:18 AM
oops, meant know the answer.Posted by: Heather4life at May 5, 2007 7:42 AM
No one is answering. I wonder if that informtion is even out there?Posted by: Valerie at May 5, 2007 7:47 AM
"Rasquel, cite your sources for those deaths. I happen to know that the killing of the American Indians was often motivated by a desire to ?convert? them, that the African slave trade was explained as acceptable by the Bible, and that the Fall of Rome had quite a bit to do with the sudden conversion to Christianity. I can cite sources for each one of those claims. Can you do the same?"
Since I cited my source, I'm still a-waitin' on some reciprocity.
Will your numbers vindicate the notion that ostensibly religiously motivated acts have been worse for civilization than have civilizations' purely secular adventures?
No. But it's a fun exercise in holding careless assertions accountable. ;-)Posted by: rasqual at May 6, 2007 2:28 PM
I was really numb after my abortion. I didn't talk to anyone (totally not usual, you guys that have seen my lengthy posts, you know.)and just holed up in my apartment for at least a month. My friends didn't mention abortion or women's rights after that, also something very diff, since we were "Fem Champs". In fact, one of them got pregnant right before grad. She kept her baby and got married. The other got married and tried for 5 years to get pregnant. Neither of them are abortion supporters now.
I get so upset with the Women's Health thing because it is only Women's Health when someone's peddling abortion. Why is it not a Women's Health issue when women are traumatized from having an abortion? If these orgs like NOW are really concerned about women, why is this not a real issue with them?
Thanks for standing for Life, Heather. It's been great seeing others have real passion for women and children.
Janet, Thank you for your reply. I visit other sites, and a few of them are for post abortive women. They allow me to participate though I haven't had an abortion. I'm glad they do,because I am able to educate myself more and more about PAS. The women all tell stories about the procedure itself, rude and abusive abortionists,their emotional status after the abortion, and how the abortion[s] affected their relationships with others.Posted by: Heather4life at May 7, 2007 1:04 PM