I am a brand new board member of Pregnancy Aid South Suburbs, a network of 3
pregnancy care centers and 1 maternity home located in the southwest suburbs of Chicago.
Tomorrow is PASS's annual Hike for Life, 1 of 2 annual fundraisers that is very important to PASS's financial stability....
I've known the leaders of PASS since 1999, when they became involved in trying to stop abortion at Christ Hospital. In fact, the 1st place I spoke publicly about my experience was at a PASS banquet.
Pregnancy care centers are in dire need of our help. In honor of Mother's Day, please help mothers in crisis carry their babies to term. Please give the
largest amount possible.
It couldn't be easier. Go to my sponsor page and post your pledge on PASS's secure site. You can pay now by credit card if you like, or you can choose to receive a reminder in the mail.
Thank you in advance for your generosity! My goal is $1,000 and I've just come on board, so I really need your help!
UPDATE, 5/10, 7:45a: I'm off to the Hike. Will post Weekend Question and new poll later.
Please consider donating to PASS through the weekend. I was blown away yesterday when within a couple hours after posting my request and sending an mail alert, you had donated over $800 - and my goal was $1,000! So I bumped it up to $1,500. This morning I see your pledges are up to $1,380! I'm so appreciative. Meanwhile, my friend Fran has issued a challenge to her readers at Illinois Review to compete with us. Fun!
A couple commenters did not see on my pledge page that you can check a box to have PASS mail your pledge if you don't want to pay by credit card. I wanted to draw that to your attention. Thanks again for your generosity.
UPDATE, 5/10, 7:15p: Hey, you have made my goal - $1,500! Thanks so much!
P.S. Don't let that stop you... :)
I am proud to sponsor your walk JillPosted by: truthseeker at May 9, 2008 12:19 PM
hey, thanks!Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 9, 2008 12:33 PM
Done babe.Posted by: mk at May 9, 2008 1:21 PM
Take a hike!
I'll sponsor you, too. Pity they don't let you pledge via PayPal. Ah well; maybe next time.Posted by: John Jansen at May 9, 2008 1:34 PM
John and MK, thanks! John, are you going to SD? If so, keep me posted.Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 9, 2008 1:42 PM
Wow, I'm shocked. Donations are already at $735. Wow. Pro-lifers are so generous.Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 9, 2008 1:43 PM
Pro choicers are generous too Jill. We just give to different organizations. I wish you the best of luck. I don't know anything about your new organization, but I'll assume it's a very worthy cause.Posted by: Hal at May 9, 2008 2:28 PM
Oh I was hoping it would let me use paypal but it wouldn't. Marykay, do you use paypal?
Hal, it's not a new organization; I'm just new to it. This is something you as a pro-"choicer" should absolutely support. If not, why not? Pregnancy care centers support the other "choice" - to keep one's baby in a crisis situation rather than abort.
And actually, studies show liberals are not generous, btw.Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 9, 2008 2:32 PM
Thanks for the heads-up, Jill. I'll take this opportunity to donate to Planned Parenthood instead.Posted by: Ray at May 9, 2008 3:04 PM
I'm in. Good luck! What a wonderful cause!!
Jill, I might support it. I certainly would have to learn more. If I have time next week I'll look into it.
Second, you mentioned "liberals" I was talking "pro-choicers." Are they the same? I'm sure they're some overlap, but there could be some who are one and not the other. I had a liberal girlfriend in college who was pro-life. Can you be a pro-cloice conservative? I think so.Posted by: Hal at May 9, 2008 4:07 PM
Done. Good luck.Posted by: jasper at May 9, 2008 5:49 PM
I'm in!! Thank you for helping women keep their babies!! :)Posted by: Carla at May 9, 2008 6:01 PM
Hal, it's for helping pregnant mother's. What's to think about?Posted by: truthseeker at May 9, 2008 6:22 PM
what's to think about? Whether they make crazy comments about those who make different choices. If they stay out of the abortion debate and simply offer help to pregnant mothers who wish to carry the child to term, I'd be happy to send a donation.Posted by: Hal at May 9, 2008 6:58 PM
I see they're big on Abstinence Till Marriage...I'll pass.
Hey, they have every right to advocate for anything they want, but not the kind of place I want to donate. Have a great Mothers' Day Weekend everyone.Posted by: Hal at May 9, 2008 7:03 PM
Did you know that Abstinence til Marriage means: less broken hearts, less STDs, etc.
If I could donate by Paypal, I'd give some money.
So just because they believe abstinence is BEST, you won't give? That's pretty sad.
Posted by: LizFromNebraska
at May 9, 2008 7:57 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing you and anyone else who can make tomorrow's Hike for Life in Frankfort starting at 8:00 AM. And thanks to all who support life through volunteering, praying, and financial giving.
I see they're big on Abstinence Till Marriage...I'll pass.
posted by Hal May 9, 2008 7:03 PM
Hal, Have you ever in your entire life donated to any crisis pregnancy center to help a women who chose to keep their babies?Posted by: truthseeker at May 9, 2008 8:16 PM
All concerned about PayPal: You can check a box at the bottom of the form asking PASS to mail you a pledge return form if you don't want to pay by credit card. Thanks so much.Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 10, 2008 7:34 AM
Have a great walk!!Posted by: Carla at May 10, 2008 7:59 AM
Good Luck, Jill!
I'm off to visit my 86 year old grandmother w/ my mom for Mother's Day so I won't be commenting for a few days.
I think I may send a pledge - and get a reminder sent by mail.Posted by: LizFromNebraska at May 10, 2008 8:46 AM
Hal said: If they stay out of the abortion debate and simply offer help to pregnant mothers who wish to carry the child to term, I'd be happy to send a donation.
Hal - if pro-lifers stayed out of the abortion debate, there wouldn't be any debate to speak of - right? ;-)
"I'll take this opportunity to donate to Planned Parenthood instead."
Let's see, Ray, the "non-profit" PP makes millions in revenue annually.
This charity only asks for enough to purchase a simple ultra-sound machine.
I don't think Cecile and Gang are going to notice your dollar. Or lack thereof.
But if contributing towards the purchase of cannulas floats your boat...Posted by: carder at May 10, 2008 9:44 AM
I can't support this org because of its overtly religious nature, but I did donate to a local center that's not known for discussing religion with its clients and to Planned Parenthood.
As a prochoice woman, I support women's reproductive choices, but as an athiest I cannot support conversion efforts.Posted by: Rosie at May 10, 2008 10:07 AM
Rosie said As a prochoice woman, I support women's reproductive choices, but as an athiest I cannot support conversion efforts.
Actually, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that you supported conversion efforts towards your particular religion - which is Secular Humanism?
There is no such thing as a neutral religious act. Jesus said - "those who are not for us, are against us" Through your actions and confession you simply prove Him correct.Posted by: Chris Arsenault at May 10, 2008 12:10 PM
Chris, no, it wouldn't. I don't support any "conversion efforts" of any kind. If people want to leave their faiths, that's fine by me. The information on alternative views is out there. But I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind because I really don't think it's a big deal what anyone chooses to believe in their own heads. It only becomes an issue when that intrudes on other people's lives.
I only posted here because it seems pertinent to the conversation- there are options out there for those of us who want to support women who choose to continue their pregnancies but don't want to do so via religious organizations. I know many people who are pro-life but are put off participating in "the movement" because it's too religiously oriented.Posted by: Rosie at May 10, 2008 12:35 PM
"Break a leg"
Here's a great resource for creation evidence.
www.creationevidence.orgPosted by: HisMan at May 10, 2008 12:39 PM
A more correct expression of your view (unadulterated by pro-abortion propaganda) can read only one way:
"As a prochoice woman, I share the responsibility for the unjustifiable deaths of millions of aborted babies, now and in the future, but, as an athiest, I reject God and all attempts at receiving His unconditional love. Despite God's pleas to choose life, as expressed by the tireless efforts of his obedient children, I have chosen death and am proud of it."Posted by: HisMan at May 10, 2008 12:48 PM
Rosie, I appreciate your compassion and your donation to help pregnant women who choose to keep their babies. Thank you.Posted by: truthseeker at May 10, 2008 2:20 PM
And I also apprecitae yur acknowledging that your donation to pregnant women who choose to keep their babies did NOT go to Planned Barrenhood. You sound honest though I don't understand how anybody would "support" an organiation whose purpose is to kill human life.Posted by: truthseeker at May 10, 2008 2:26 PM
As long as there's a God in heaven and there's the murdering of children in the womb there will be a debate.
I might add, even after we win there will be a debate, unless of couse, good hearted men like you, choose to not to support abortion.Posted by: HisMan at May 10, 2008 2:29 PM
In fact the pro-life movement is supported by people of all faiths and no faith. The National Right to Life Committee has all such members. Google prop-life atheists and agnostics and you will get around 85,000 hits.
The pro-life movement has a number of organizations based on religion, ethnicity, and neither. All share the same goal.
Religious people have long played an active role in important social issues. The Quakers formed the first anti-slavery society in this country and remained an active force opposing slavery for decades. Clergy of all faiths condemned it from the pulpit. The civil rights movement in this country was led by an ordained minister, Dr.Martin Luther King, Jr. The civil rights movement was very religiously oriented, and clergy and lay people of all faiths, and people of no faith, were involved.
None of these issues, slavery, civil rights, and abortion were or are now religious issues simply because of involvement by religious people. They were and are moral and ethical issues.
I'm confused. Who is it exactly that is promoting "choice" in the name of God? What religious organizations are specifically pro choice???Posted by: mk at May 10, 2008 3:20 PM
Thanks for your response Rosie.
It's clear you're simply not seeing things as being contradictory - for instance donating to both a PRC and Planned Parenthood.
In some respects though, I can see that as being very consistent with your idea of being "pro-choice". Is that how you think of it?Posted by: Chris Arsenault at May 10, 2008 4:47 PM
Oh - yeah, Rosie- One more thing. You said
I don't support any "conversion efforts" of any kind. If people want to leave their faiths, that's fine by me.
What's "fine by me" mean?Posted by: Chris Arsenault at May 10, 2008 4:53 PM
So just because they believe abstinence is BEST, you won't give? That's pretty sad.
Posted by: LizFromNebraska at May 9, 2008 7:57 PM
That's right. Don't know if it's sad. We all have our values and morals, and decide where we should contribute money. I didn't say they shouldn't do what they're doing, or that others shouldn't support them. I'll just give to an organization that is closer to my view of the world. If there is an organization that helps pregnant women and girls that doesn't promote abstinence, doesn't attack abortion as a choice, and doesn't push religion (at least too much) I'd be happy to help out.
I'm confused. Who is it exactly that is promoting "choice" in the name of God? What religious organizations are specifically pro choice???
Posted by: mk at May 10, 2008 3:20 PM
Liberal and some mainline denominations: In general, these either promote a woman's right to choose an abortion, or are relatively silent on the matter. A number of liberal and mainline Christian and Jewish faith groups and organizations have publicly stated that abortions are sometimes an acceptable option, and should remain legal. According to lists prepared by The Secular Web and the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, they include, in alphabetic order: 1
American Baptist Churches-USA (see below),
American Ethical Union,
American Friends (Quaker) Service Committee,
American Jewish Committee,
American Jewish Congress,
Central Conference of American Rabbis,
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ),
Council of Jewish Federations,
Episcopal Church (USA),
Federation of Reconstructionist Congregations and Havurot,
Moravian Church in America-Northern Province,
National Council of Jewish Women,
Presbyterian Church (USA),
Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice,
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,
Union of American Hebrew Congregations,
Unitarian Universalist Association,
United Church of Christ,
United Methodist Church,
United Synagogue for Conservative Judaism.
Religious groups other than denominations:
Catholics for Free Choice,
Episcopal Women's Caucus,
Evangelicals for Choice,
Jewish Women International,
Lutheran Women's Caucus,
North American Federation of Temple Youth,
Unitarian Universalist Women's Federation,
Women of Reform Judaism,
Women's American ORT,
Women's Caucus Church of the Brethren,
Women's League for Conservative Judaism.
You can't believe everything you read.
I don't quite think you understand the Catholic Church. Being Catholic means accepting the Church's teachings according to the Cathecism. If you fail to except their teaching. And even assisting in an abortion is so grave a natter that the action itself excommunicates you. I can't speak for the rest but there is NO such thing as a Catholic who supports abortion. Here is the Catholic position from the Catechism:
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74
2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76
2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.Posted by: truthseeker at May 10, 2008 9:00 PM
See Hal, the list you posted included under
Religious groups other than denominations:
Catholics for Free Choice.
If you define Free Choiced as accepting abortion as o.k. then Catholics for Free Choice is an oxymoron and clearly a falsehood and slander of the Catholic Church.
If there is an organization that helps pregnant women and girls that doesn't promote abstinence
What's wrong with PROMOTING abstinence again??
Wouldn't you say the BEST suggestion for young women/girls who are pregnant already is to practice abstinence so they don't face MORE unplanned pregnancies?? That way they don't get themselves in anymore complicated situations, and continue the cycle that will probably keep them in poverty the rest of their life? I don't really think any of these organizations can force abstinence on these girls but PROMOTING it? HELL YES THEY SHOULD PROMOTE IT!Posted by: Elizabeth at May 10, 2008 9:10 PM
How promoted was abstinence in your life, Elizabeth?Posted by: carder at May 10, 2008 9:14 PM
Hmmmmm.....it was pretty strongly emphasized by parents, family members, etc.
But I thought I knew better than eeeeeverybody..lol.
Now, I promote it to myself..and I'm going 3 years strong!!!Posted by: Elizabeth at May 10, 2008 9:35 PM
Awesome.Posted by: carder at May 10, 2008 9:42 PM
What do you mean there is no such thing as a Catholic who supports abortion?
You should say there's no such thing as a Christian who supports abortion.
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."Posted by: HisMan at May 10, 2008 10:16 PM
I understand that there are churches that allow abortion...my question was, which ones promote it?
Like Priests for Life...you don't see Episcopalians for Abortions, or Jews for D&X...Posted by: mk at May 11, 2008 5:59 AM
I am so proud of you! You have such a story to share and I am grateful for you voice!
I agree with you 100%. How about this one too:
"See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.
But I am extremely grateful for the Catholic Catechism teachings on abortion which can leave no doubt, wiggle room, or false interpretations for her faithful.Posted by: truthseeker at May 11, 2008 8:42 AM
Aww thanks Carla! The feeling is totally mutual!Posted by: Elizabeth at May 11, 2008 12:47 PM
Happy Mothers Day, Elizabeth! I hope your girlybug squeezed you up good!Posted by: Carla at May 11, 2008 2:09 PM
By "fine by me," I mean that if a religious friend is questioning their faith and wants to discuss their thoughts with me, cool. They're welcome to do so. I, however, don't go and try to deconvert my religious acquaintances. If they want to continue as believers, that's fine too. No skin off my back, unless they try to convert me.
If someone is questioning their faith and talked to you, to be completely honest, neither of you would know if the conversation was for your mutual benefit, and though it might not look like it, may actually be a way for God to touch you. (Or so I believe.)
True believers can't convert you, which indicates a lack of knowledge on your part about how true Christianity works. We believe only God can change a person's heart, and frankly, that person is completely free to accept or reject such change. True love can't be forced.
As for "deconversion" - you can't deconvert someone who has truly put their faith in Christ. It's not possible. It is possible to confuse someone who doesn't have Christ, but again, the truly faithful wouldn't get angry or upset because they simply don't know the purpose God has for that action.
(BTW - on a literal technicality, there is no such thing as "deconversion". Only conversions, because time is linear and we don't get the opportunity to go backwards in time.)
What many perceive as "conversion" efforts is a zealous activity to be witnesses for God. It sounds like you had some bad experiences, or an understanding that conversion is a forced thing, which indicates a particular aggressiveness. You're right - some folks are overly aggressive - or direct, or blunt.
I'd apologize for them, but I believe they should do that themselves.
Posted by: Chris Arsenault
at May 11, 2008 7:42 PM
Interesting post!Posted by: Janet at May 12, 2008 5:00 AM
Chris, (May 11, 2008 7:42 PM)
EXACTLY!!!! EXACTLY!!!! EXACTLY!!!!
Excellent post!Posted by: JLM at May 12, 2008 5:26 PM