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Jill:

You came up again on Sean Hannity's program when he interviewed Pastor Warren.

I'm no expert, but I think all the hate rants against Obama might have affected your server.

It looks like the problem's fixed at this end.

If the server is overloaded, let's combine things.

NEWS FLASH:

Obama has picked Phil Kline as his running mate and the announcement will be in Aurora, Illinois.

PPC,
You can exclude me from the hate-rant club. I never once stated that I hate the guy. As a matter of fact, I would welcome the opportunity to have Barack over for some rice and beans, Michelle and the kids, too, and chat. Maybe even dance some salsa/merengue. Did you see him jam in Puerto Rico?

Just don't expect me to vote for him.

That's not hate. Just a logical choice for me.

Carder,

Very well stated. I'm also tired of this whining about hating Obama. Criticize Obama and that means you hate him. I also have no personal animosity toward the man, I just won't vote for him and consider him totally unqualified to be president.

Aside from the political aspect of his appearance, I enjoyed watching Obama at Saddleback. It was a side of him that I found engaging.

Still won't vote for him, though.

Yeah I mean let's face it, the man bleeds charisma. He probably has more charisma than Bill Clinton. He's phenomenally engaging. I also pray that I will see him in heaven. But as his views are now, I could never ever in good conscience vote for him.

I know what you mean, Bobby. It's pretty disappointing to me in regards to his views. He seems like a funny and very charismatic guy. If our views were more in line, I'd be excited for him to be the 1st black President.

Acknowledging he's headed for heaven is good enough for me Bobby.

Some think he's the anti-christ.

I've said many times, there are legitimate reasons to not for for him. He's pro choice, you may not be. He is relatively inexperienced, that may bother some. Whatever. But many of us like his smarts, his attitude, and his platform.

http://www.republicansforobama.org/?q=consider

Doug, you owe me a new monitor. This one has Dr. Pepper on it.

Can someone send this to midnite? I tried to post it before but the site wouldn't let me and I don't know what topic it was on.

"Congratulations Midnite!!!!!! I'd be super excited if just to get all B's! The Deans List is really an accomplishment. What are you going to do after you graduate? Are you going to become a lawyer?"

Hal,
Bambino would LIKE to see him in heaven. It's up to Barack if he accepts that path. As it is with all of us.

Indeed, Bambino, the man is gifted. Now if he could just use his gifts for the Lord...

'Nother topic: I've often wondered if the parents of that discarded Down's baby realize that this whole controversy is about the choice they made. If they had just accepted the baby the way it was, if they had decided differently, perhaps none of us would be here making friends and enemies.

Do you think they know who they are? Do you think they will come out of their choice closet and say,"We are the parents of that neonate." and then try to write a bestseller as to why it was Jill and not them holding their baby til expiration?

Random thoughts...

Gifted in what exactly? way overrated in my opinion.

Carder, can I come over for rice and beans?

I think if it wasn't those parents and their baby it would have been a different set of parents and a different baby carder.

I feel sorry for them as well as their baby. It's so hard to watch someone you love suffer.

If you ask me I saw two people at Saddleback:

A tenured law professor and the leader of the free world.

Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter and Dennis Prager talking about Jill right now (9:43 EST). Hannity has just explained that the federal and state bills were identical.

Hal, 7:43PM

Exactly what is Obama's platform?

Wichita Linewoman: Doug, you owe me a new monitor. This one has Dr. Pepper on it.

Ha! How about a big ^5?

(high-five)

P.S. are you really a linewoman?

I'm also tired of this whining about hating Obama.

Mary, you're right - Carder's comments were well stated indeed. However, there is a good bit of practically saying that Obama is the AntiChrist, etc.....

Wait what dial? My computer doesn't have any dials.

When you CAN post you've got to see this story:
http://blog.catholic-convert.com/?p=2266

Discarded fetus begins to breathe after going to morgue!

Doug 9:04PM

Thank you for your support. I do not consider intelligent criticism of either candidate "hate".

Doctors estimated that the cooler brought the fetus “back to life.”
---------------------------------------------------
Woah Milehimama!
Hey do you think the abortion actually saved the baby? I mean, obviously things weren't going well in utero (sp) maybe the baby was saved when it was extracted from the mother and then rejuvenated by the cooler? How twisted would that be? An abortion saves a baby.

See, that's the ONLY problem I had with this story...it WASN'T an elective abortion. It was the removal of a miscarried baby. It was considered a miscarriage.

I hope the little baby makes it. :)

Uhh, blogger needs to get his facts straight. None of the doctors said the cooler brought the baby back to life. No newspaper reported the doctors said the cooler brought the baby back to life. Only bloggers said that.

What IS likely is that the doctor on scene made a mistake in pronouncing the baby dead (it's stated that it had a 10 percent chance of survival at that age/weight, likely leading to the doctor's inaccurate diagnosis), and the "cooling effect of the morgue slowed the infant's metabolism, causing her oxygen consumption to be very low," according to the Jerusalem Post.

In fact, there's no signs the baby was ever actually dead. The newspapers just exaggerated the claim to sell the story. Obviously.

Exactly what is Obama's platform?
Posted by: Mary at August 18, 2008 8:57 PM

click on the link

Yeah, great story. I think Bobby mentioned something along the same lines, Kel. This wasn't an abortion since no attempt was made to kill the baby.

Okay, here's what Bobby said:

"I think it should be pointed out that if you are extracting the fetus from the womb in order to save the life of the mother, this is not an abortion because the purpose of abortion is to kill the fetus, which this procedure clearly had no intention of doing. Like good medicine, they attempted to save the life of the mother without directly killing the baby. Of course, this is the problem with defining abortion as the termination of a pregnancy. Yes the pregnancy was terminated, as was my wife's when she gave birth to our daughter, but killing the fetus was not the means to a good end (saving the life of the mother) in this case. This is why abortion is "the direct and willful killing of a fetus or embryo as a means to ending pregnancy", not simply the "termination of a pregnancy."

Great post by the way, Bobby!

So I don't support abortion?

(((((((((((((Jill)))))))))) I was watching Hannity and Colmes tonight too. TRA beat me to the computer to report on the program. :-)

You are causing quite a stir. I can't wait to see your interview. Someone should force Obama to watch your DVD and "A Distant Thunder." Being pro choice is his right, whether or not I agree with his position...but infanticide??? Well, that's just frightening.

Keep up the good work!

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFDC1738F937A35754C0A96F948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Link to rather full (for a non-medical text) explanation of lung development in the fetus. Certainty of 20 week gestational age of the Israeli fetus?

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen: To help stop abortion in America and the world, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen encouraged the spiritual adoption of an unborn child. This is done by praying a ten second prayer that an unborn baby’s life be spared abortion and be allowed to live.

The prayer is:

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion. Amen.

Hal:

You are NOT a Republican.

The prayer is:

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion. Amen.

Posted by: Janet at August 18, 2008 10:41 PM
............................

Spiritually adopt? Is that like whatever the Morman's do when they convert their dead ancestors to Mormanism? How does this work?

Wow, this proves you all don't need any topic by which to converse... :)

Turned out all my disc space was used up, and that problem has been taken care of.

Thanks! for patience!

Hal,

Every time I ask someone to tell me what Obama stands for, why they support him, what he means by "change" and "hope", I'm told to click on a link or go to his website.
Please Hal, as his supporter, tell me in your words what the man's platform is, why you support him, and what "change" and "hope" mean.
Certainly his supporters should be able to answer these questions.

Doug, no I'm not a linewoman. I do live in Wichita though!

Hi Sally,
I adopt all babies that have been aborted in my heart. They are mine. I love them. I want them. When I get to heaven someday, I will meet them.
Pretty sure you know who is Mormon here and who is not. :)

Jill, your disk space being used up proves that people are NOT bored by the topic of Obama and infanticide. Keep up the good work!

Sally,

Carla answered the question lovingly. I would add that just as in the physical world we can "adopt" or sponsor a child in Kenya, let's say, through a charitable organization, in the spiritual realm we can call as our own those who are indeed in danger of being terminated.

I'm not familiar with Mormon theology on the matter, so I can't say if it's like that.

Phylo, you crack me up.

Brother Barack is the one caught "misstating" his position for the past 4 years. It's there in black and white!

If Jill were indeed lying, explain why his camp submitted that clarification statement 24 hours after his venting.

Carder,

I can't login now, but I would vote to have phylophers latest comment deleted, it has no merit and is just a slam against Jill.

Jasper, no problem. Done. :)

Amanda,
Try these phrases on for size.

1. I am sorry.

2. I was wrong.

3. I would like to apologize.

4. Forgive me.

Amanda,

If Phylospher is going just call Jill a liar, then the least she can do is back it up, explain why she is a liar.

Amanda, your post was nothing but an ad hominem attack and was intended to be inflammatory. There was no reason to leave it up.

Carla gave you some good ideas for responses you might try some time.

Okay, Amanda, I stand corrected on Ad Hominem. However, it was intended to be inflammatory.

You can bwahahaha and scoff till the cows come home, but that isn't going to change the fact that you broke the rules and your post was deleted fairly.

The funniest thing is, I came back here a few months ago, because as I said, I had a change of perspective and was feeling more on the fence about abortion. Rae and I were feeling much the same way. Since we've both been reading this blog, we've both become MORE pro choice than before because of the ignorance and insanity posted on this board. We've discussed it at length, and she's been smart enough to actually keep away.

Manipulation tactics. Nothing more.

I would just delete Amanda's comments above..her main goal is just to insult pro-lifers, and too drive "on the fence pro-lifers" to pro-choice side. She is not a nice person folks, believe me.

Jasper, you must realize that the extreme views of some on this site repel many moderates.

Mary, I would love to explain why I so passionately support Obama. It will take me a few minutes, and I have to work for a few hours. Please check back tonight and I'll have something for you.

Jasper, you must realize that the extreme views of some on this site repel many moderates.

The difference is the intent, Hal. You may consider us extreme, but others may consider you extreme also for your unwavering support of Obama. Does it make you want to change your views on Obama? Of course not. And we're not going to change our views which you might consider extreme just because you think they are extreme.

Hal, you and I conviction to believe things, actually believe them. Not because someone else who believes it is nice to us, but because we actually believe it. Right?

If Amanda's (or anyone else's) convictions are so weak that she would change her mind on abortion depending on how she feels treated, well, that's just sad, but isn't our fault.

The prayer is:

"Jesus, Mary, and Joseph I love you very much. I beg you to spare the life of the unborn baby that I have spiritually adopted who is in danger of abortion. Amen.

Sally,

My post to you got cut off. Why is this happening to me??

Anyways, you asked about spiritual adoption -

It's simple. You decide to pray this prayer for nine months for a baby who is in danger of being aborted and for the mother of that child.

Amanda,

I can understand your frustration, I really can, having felt it myself from the other side (Texas Red anyone?) but saying that you are pro choice because of the pro life "people" is rather drastic, don't you think?

I mean, why are you basing your moral convictions on personalities instead of personal observations? I am very opinionated...no kidding, right?...but I have never based my opinion on the kinds of people that share my opinion...I base it on it's own merit.

Abortion is wrong because it is wrong. If it brings lunatics out of the woodwork, it doesn't change the fact that abortion is still wrong. It just means that some people take it too far.

I believe that pedophilia is wrong. If I went to a NAMBA website and listened to the kindest, funniest, most pleasant people in the world singing the praises of boffing little boys, I would not change my opinion. No matter how much I liked the presentation.

Likewise, being for abortion because you DON'T like the presentation, seems foolhardy. No? Do you see what I mean?

If you are prochoice because you honestly believe that a woman must retain the right to choose, so be it, but to be pro choice because you don't like a few pro lifers is not logical.

You're such an incredibly smart person, that I can only think you are saying these things out of anger. Which is understandable. But it's not having the effect that you want. Rather than tick off the people you are angry with, you just confirm their convictions that you haven't really thought the topic through. Which makes them less likely to take you seriously.

I guess I'm kind of disappointed as I think of you as such a mature young woman, and this is "immature" behavior.

As I've told Rae, and am now telling you, my affection for you in unconditional. While I would love to see you pro life, I will not stop liking and respecting you if you choose to remain pro choice. But be pro choice for sound reasons and not because you don't like some of us.

Does this make sense?

Jasper I think Amanda is lovely and intelligent person.

Let me just add, that while vacuuming (great "thinking" activity) it occurred to me that I do the same thing...or at least am tempted to...

I abhor Al Gore...simply can't stand the man...therefore, I find it hard to take anything he says seriously. Like global warming. I have had to work really hard to read the words and not condemn them simply because they come from him. I still don't accept global warming for the reasons he states, but I can honestly say that with great effort, it is the arguments themselves that I disagree with and not simply because they came from him.

But that did take great effort.

Likewise, I automatically want to dismiss the theories of evolution whenever I hear them come from Richard Dawkins mouth simply because I detest the man himself.

So I do understand where you are coming from Amanda.

But there is always a PIP to offset the Dawkins...;)

Sally,

I've stated before that I think there are people in the world (some right here on this board) that have never and will never have a single prayer said for them.

I believe this puts them at a disadvantage.

Spiritually adopting an unborn child, simply ensures that they will not live and die without a prayer being said in their honor. Perhaps the prayer will change the mothers heart, perhaps it will simply show that someone in this world cares enough about them to consider them a human being and not just an inconvenience. Either way, it's a win/win for the baby, the mother, and the person saying the prayers...

It's why I pray for you and everyone else on this board. It's a dirty job, but someones got to do it...;)

"But there is always a PIP to offset the Dawkins...;)"

Yes, but who offsets PZ Meyers?

How is it a dirty job mk? How are you praying!?

Jess,

It was a joke. It's not a dirty job, but someone does have to do it...

Bobby,

Yes, but who offsets PZ Meyers?

lol...now there's a man that needs A LOT of prayers...and that IS a dirty job. It's really hard to pray for someone like him...you're knee jerk reaction is to hope he rots in...never mind. My point is, that's a perfect example of someone that could really use prayers, from everyone and anyone!

MK - When I make perfectly legitamate posts which follow and abide by every single rule on the board, and they're deleted because Bethany doesn't want anyone saying good things about birth control, whats the point of being polite back to someone who has called me names, accused me of lying, and deleted posts for absolutely no valid reason while leaving posts up that are FAR more offensive and personal (Patrica and HisMan anyone?) because they are pro lifers?

Immaturity begets immaturity.

And frankly, if people the likes of Jasper, HisMan, and Yllas liked me... I'd wonder where I'd gone wrong.

The fact that they can't stand me only goes to show I'm doing the right thing.

Oh no mk! My post was a joke too! No one gets my sense of humor : (

Jasper and Hisman aren't too bad, I think their hearts are in the right place. Their minds on the other hand...

The wheel is still spinning but the hamster is dead :' (

Jess,

I knew you were joking! I was teasing again...abbot and costello anyone?

Aww mk :)

I'm always here to offset the Dawkins when you need me!

(and also the Al Gore)

Since this topic isn't really about anything, and I know the moderators don't like Amanda promoting contraceptives, but is it alright if I push PETA's agenda on you guys for a bit?

http://www.stopanimaltests.com/feat/hiddenrats/
"Rats can bond with their human companions to the point that if they are suddenly given away to someone else or forgotten, they can pine to death... These small, sensitive creatures are not even protected under the Animal Welfare Act, which exempts birds, rodents, and cold-blooded animals entirely from consideration."

It's interesting that the article mentions that rats and mice like massages because my hamster really enjoys hamster massages. He just stretches out and I rub his shoulders and back (ever so gently!) and he's just lying their enjoying it. He'll stay like that for a half an hour.

Janet 10:41, do you cut and paste your comments? I think it was Word that used to give me the problem, so I switched to using Notepad instead. If you have the same problem that I once had, you'll notice that your posts are always cut off at an apostrophe or quotation mark or some character that Word has some special formatting mark for.

"The fact that they can't stand me"

Amanda, that's not true. I didn't mean to say to weren't a nice person, you probably are. But the cheap shots at pro-lifers is getting a bit too much. Would you agree... com'on.

" I didn't mean to say to weren't a nice person"

"She is not a nice person folks, believe me."

Hahahahahahahahaha.... you and Bethany both crack me up. I've never seen two people back peddle and contradict themselves more in my entire life.

Janet 10:41, do you cut and paste your comments? I think it was Word that used to give me the problem, so I switched to using Notepad instead. If you have the same problem that I once had, you'll notice that your posts are always cut off at an apostrophe or quotation mark or some character that Word has some special formatting mark for.

Posted by: Jon at August 19, 2008 1:07 PM

This is something that started just recently. What is Notepad? I wonder if it makes a difference if the comment box is highlighted (blue) when I post... I'm going to watch that as well... Thanks for your help, Jon.

" I didn't mean to say to weren't a nice person"

"She is not a nice person folks, believe me."

Hahahahahahahahaha.... you and Bethany both crack me up. I've never seen two people back peddle and contradict themselves more in my entire life.

Posted by: Amanda at August 19, 2008 2:19 PM

It's best to take things with a grain of salt around here. :)

MK - When I make perfectly legitamate posts which follow and abide by every single rule on the board, and they're deleted because Bethany doesn't want anyone saying good things about birth control, whats the point of being polite back to someone who has called me names, accused me of lying, and deleted posts for absolutely no valid reason while leaving posts up that are FAR more offensive and personal (Patrica and HisMan anyone?) because they are pro lifers?

Amanda, I accused you of lying weeks ago because you blatantly did. You said that an unborn child from the moment of conception has the right to life, but also it is morally acceptable to kill them. That is contradictory.

One cannot have a right to life and another have the right to kill them.

Are you really still not over the fact that I called you on your lie?

I have not called you names.

I have not deleted your posts for no reason.

I have deleted Hisman's, Jasper's, and Yllas's posts on many occasions. I've even deleted my OWN comments on many occasions.

I'm sorry that you refuse to acknowledge that this blog is much more fairly run than you realize.

Bethany,

You and all the moderators here do a great job and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Grain of salt, remember? :)

Bethany, I think that maybe Amanda would be less frustrated if there had been any concrete reason given for deleting the Plan B comment. I didn't even see it and I assumed it must have just been too off-topic, but you said that even if it had been in a thread dealing with Plan B, you would have deleted it, because it says in the rules that moderators can delete comments at their discretion.

If you merely did not like the content -- apparently it advocated keeping emergency contraception on hand if you're sexually active -- then why not delete posts in favor of birth control? You believe that BC is an abortifacent, same as Plan B, right? Many people here have posted positive things about birth control and have merely been responded to -- not deleted.

Surely you can see how deleting a comment with little to no explanation might be taken the wrong way. We disagree on things all the time; disagreeing is not the same as blatant name-calling, which most people understand as being a valid reason for having a comment deleted. Of course you can delete whatever you want to delete, but I think it's kind of unrealistic to do so without giving an explanation and then expect no one to be upset.

Would it be fair to say that Amanda usually writes in an inflammatory way? That her posts have a certain TONE that is condescending and antagonistic? With her *eyerolls* and Bwahahahaha's and her attempts to derail threads and bait others?

Thanks, Janet.

Alexandra, did you happen to catch her post before it was deleted? It wasn't just a post in support of Plan B. It literally was an advertisement.

An advertisement generally consists of a testimonial, comparison of prices, explanation of why you should buy the product, and Amanda even included a way that you should figure out how to find the money to buy the product, and recommended that every girl get one for her own safety net.

It was literally a commercial. And I'm sorry, but what would be the point of a pro-life blog allowing such a commercial on our blog? Imagine me going to an animal rights blog, and posting about where you can have your cows slaughtered and butchered for a low price. Would they really need a specific rule to tell me why they deleted such a post? Should I really be surprised if they deleted it?

I thought I gave her a pretty clear reason for deleting her post, when I told her that we don't allow abortion ads on this site.

She disagrees with me that Plan B is abortion. I understand that. And what she needs to understand is that this site is run by people who DO believe it is abortive, and therefore, of course we are not going to run or tolerate ads promoting the pill.

I would really appreciate it if everyone would please respect the fact that we moderators have a job to do, and let us do our job.

If anyone doesn't like the way the blog is run, no one is forcing them to stay. Of course, Alexandra, I would be sad if you left.

It'd be fair to say that she usually has a sarcastic tone, but I don't think that really has much to do with my point.

Alexandra, did you happen to catch her post before it was deleted?

As I said, I DID NOT see it, so all I had to go on was your claim that she was posting "abortion ads." Which, forgive me for saying so, seems pretty doubtful.

I would really appreciate it if everyone would please respect the fact that we moderators have a job to do, and let us do our job.

It's just kind of a fact of human nature that if you go around deleting people's posts and, when they ask why, citing the rule that allows you to use your discretion, then your job will probably be harder. That's all I was pointing out.

Bethany, please look up the definition of an advertisement.

I recalled the events of picking up a prescription and mused over the idea that if more people knew about it, abortions could be prevented.

By NO definition of the word does that fit the bill for an advertisement.

If I'd said the pharmacist was mean, would you have left it up? Or do you only consider it an "ad" (lol) because I had a good experience?

Amanda, I think it's time for you to let the issue drop.

good for you, I don't.

It puts egg on my face when I've argued with half a dozen pro CHOICERS on here as well as pro lifers when they've attacked the moderators here. More than I'm annoyed at the post being deleted, I'm annoyed when I'm made to look like an idiot when I repeat like a broken record how fair you all are, and then you remove posts that violate approximately ZERO of your own rules.

You've deleted the posts and then referred to them as "ad hominem attacks" and "advertisements" when they were neither.

If recalling any pleasant experience with something you happen to disagree with is labeled an "advertisement" and is forbidden on the board, you've got a LOT of deleting to do. Or you could just admit it was personal.

It wasn't personal, Amanda.

I explained myself enough, and all you need to do is reread my previous posts in order to see that.

Time to let the subject drop.

P.S. If you have any more problems with this issue, please take it up with Jill. You can find her email on the sidebar.

I don't think its up to you to decide when I should or should not let the subject drop. Its for you to deal with when you make a mockery of your own rules for discussion, and makes it laughable when you take pride in allowing dissent when you get to delete any particular dissent you don't like and come up with ridiculous justifications for it.

My problem is not with Jill, its with you. And like an adult, I'll address you, and not pass it off on someone else. Thats what little kids do.

Have a good evening, Amanda. I've got supper to make and a poopy diaper to change.

Please Hal, as his supporter, tell me in your words what the man's platform is, why you support him, and what "change" and "hope" mean.
Certainly his supporters should be able to answer these questions.
Posted by: Mary at August 19, 2008 6:07 AM

Sullivan writes it better than I can, but this sums it up:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200712/obama

Bethany and Amanda,

This topic is getting old, but if I can help clear anything up, here goes.

Bethany, I had written a comment to Amanda's post before hers was deleted, but I was unable to post because the computer problems sprang up at the same time. I tried to save it to post later, but managed to lose it.

One thing I remember (Amanda, correct me if I'm wrong) is that Amanda said she kept a year's supply of one of the abortion pills at home and hers had expired so she had just bought more. I was going to ask her how she disposed of the old pills and if there was a correct way to do so. (Flush down the toilet, or throw in the trash?) She also suggested other girls keep a supply on hand at home. I was going to ask her if this was not a bit dangerous advice to be giving since the pills could be found by children. They could also be used secretly by disgruntled boy friends or child-molesters who were intent on harming an unborn baby.

So, IMHO, it's a toss-up. It could have gone either way. Moderator wins.

Hal 6:04PM

My friend, you're just backing up what I say! Ask an Obama supporter to give their reasons why they support him and what he means by "hope" and "change" and they'll give you a link or a website.
Please Hal, I respectfully ask that you answer in your own words why YOU support Obama and what YOU understand him to mean by "hope" and "change". Simply tell me why you support the man for president.

Did you read Sullivan's article? The first five or six paragraphs say it all. That is exactly why I support Obama. In my own words, okay:

He's smart, he surrounds himself with capable advisors, he isn't like Bush or Rove, or even Clinton. He's a different kind of politican. Not completely different, of course, but positive, kind, respectful, and imaginative. I like his concrete positions, such as alternative energy, pro-choice, single payer health care, etc. But, I must admit, it's basic Democratic policy. They all support and oppose the same things, mostly.

He will, I believe, make us much safer in the world through better diplomacy and coallition building. He'll protect our civil and constitutional rights better than Bush or McCain. He'll end torture, warrentless searches, and the whole idea that a President can just designate anyone an "enemy combatant" and hold them forever without a hearing, lawyer, or any other rights.

Obama isn't the only Democrat I could support, but I think he is one of the best of the field. He inspires people across the political spectrum. Not too many of the Pro-lifers at this site, but I have posted many examples of "conseratives," pro-lifers, and religious people who support him. You guys can say, we'll those aren't "real" conservatives, pro-lifers, religious people, etc. They consider themselves to be those things, and that's good enough for me. He can really unite our country and move us past the petty infighting. A Hillary presidency, I feared, would be endless partisan battles, I'm "hopeful" that Obama can avoid most of that. So, that's "hope" and "change" right there.

SO, he's smart, respects the Constitution, has traditional liberal policies (which I mostly support--but not entirely) and brings together a wide range of viewpoints to "get things done." He's not perfect, he won't please me with everything he does, and he won't achieve everything he would like to. He's the best I've seen since RFK. I'm willing to give him a chance.

Hal,

Hillary would've have been a much better choice for your side. She actually works across ailse sometimes. Don't let Obama fool you when he speaking, he doesn't really say much, nice tone, but no substance. Don't forget his friend William Ayers who bombed the pentagon (this is the guy who help start Obama's political career, Ayers said after 9/11 that he wished he could have done it again.

Janet-

Did Amanda say she kept a supply of the abortion pill, or the morning after pill?

Bee --

I didn't see it, but I'm fairly certain that Amanda was talking about Plan B, not RU-486.

Hal,

Thank you. I have serious concerns about his lack of experience, flip flops on issues, his lack of any foreign affairs experience, his plan to tax us even more, his past association with terrorists, his viewing tire inflation and tune ups (which I understand modern cars do not need) as a solution to high gas prices, and his claim of being completely oblivious to the teachings of Rev.Wright though he was a member of his church for 20 years.
His performance at the Saddleback Church was dismal and his camp and media followers can only whine that McCain "cheated".
His single payer plan for health care will result in massive bureaucracy, gov't spending, taxing, and more debt.
His poll numbers aren't leaving McCain in the dust so one must wonder just how inspiring he is. I personally think the bloom is off the rose as people are taking a closer and more serious look.

Jasper 8:08PM

Good points. Just don't write off Hillary as of yet. As I have said before, always view the Clintons as two sleeping crocodiles, which you underestimate and trust at your own peril. These two have not gone quietly into the night, nor is there any love between Obama and Clinton, whatever their public displays.
The Clintons are already horning in on Obama's coronation and I'm certain have every intention of being the center of attention. It should be interesting to watch.
You're correct, Obama is an empty suit, an elegant speaker who says nothing. Going up against John McCain at Saddleback only proved that point.

What's Hillary up to?

What I want to know is what's Carla up to?

Carla is getting The Bigs ready for school and watching an awesome summer slowly fade away......:)

Carla,

I can only guess like everyone else. I know she still has her very staunch and angry supporters, I believe she also got her name in for nomination at the convention (someone correct me if I am wrong) and she certainly will be getting plenty of attention.
In my opinion Carla its going to be an unpleasant scene.
This after all was supposed to be Hillary's coronation.

Carla,

My children are all grown but I find myself missing the start of school. I always loved shopping for school supplies.

Did she officially concede to Obama? Can she be a write in candidate?

Carla, she could still get the democratic nomination.

The "pledged" delagates are just that, they haven't actually voted for Obama yet. Since Hillary suspended her campaign 8 Obama superdelagates have switched to Hillary. Though it would be highly unlikely that the DNC would allow Hillary to get the nomination, it is still theoretically possible.

Mary go shopping anyway then give the school stuff to under privileged children.

Jess,

Excellent suggestion.

Hi Sally,
I adopt all babies that have been aborted in my heart. They are mine. I love them. I want them. When I get to heaven someday, I will meet them.
Pretty sure you know who is Mormon here and who is not. :)

Posted by: Carla at August 19, 2008 7:10 AM
..................................

Actually, I was rather hoping someone could explain how this Morman after death conversion stuff was supposed to work. I hear that the RCC is denying access of vital records to Mormans because of their opposing after life beliefs. It's a total bummer to we genealogists unable to afford such record gathering and sharing.
Obviously, I had a selfish reason for asking.

Sally,

Carla answered the question lovingly. I would add that just as in the physical world we can "adopt" or sponsor a child in Kenya, let's say, through a charitable organization, in the spiritual realm we can call as our own those who are indeed in danger of being terminated.

I'm not familiar with Mormon theology on the matter, so I can't say if it's like that.

Posted by: carder at August 19, 2008 8:26 AM
.....................................

Seems to me that such adoption would be redundant if God, Jesus or some combination already has done so in the 'realm' you percieve them to exist.
I was just curious if it was some new religous practice.

Sally I am interested in you new religion. What kind of holidays do you have and what kind of hell will I be going to if I don't observe them?

Hillary even went on the O'Reilly factor, she didn't chicken-out like Obama. The radicals in the Democrat party threw her under the bus.

Sally,

My post to you got cut off. Why is this happening to me??

Anyways, you asked about spiritual adoption -

It's simple. You decide to pray this prayer for nine months for a baby who is in danger of being aborted and for the mother of that child.

Posted by: Janet at August 19, 2008 10:41 AM
...............................

What would 'this' prayer consist of and how do you know when the adoption has taken place?

Sally,

I've stated before that I think there are people in the world (some right here on this board) that have never and will never have a single prayer said for them.

I believe this puts them at a disadvantage.

Spiritually adopting an unborn child, simply ensures that they will not live and die without a prayer being said in their honor. Perhaps the prayer will change the mothers heart, perhaps it will simply show that someone in this world cares enough about them to consider them a human being and not just an inconvenience. Either way, it's a win/win for the baby, the mother, and the person saying the prayers...

It's why I pray for you and everyone else on this board. It's a dirty job, but someones got to do it...;)

Posted by: mk at August 19, 2008 11:23 AM
...............................

So you understand that it is rather over the top to suggest that there are conceptii on a waiting list for adoption in heaven.

Did you have a lovely week away? I'm still interested in hearing about your adventures in finding your birth mother.

Sally I am interested in you new religion. What kind of holidays do you have and what kind of hell will I be going to if I don't observe them?

Posted by: Jess at August 19, 2008 10:55 PM
.............................

My new religion? Are you looking for an opening to present one of your own? I'd enjoy hearing about it.

Amanda, 8/19, 5:01p, said to Bethany: "You've deleted the posts and then referred to them as "ad hominem attacks" and "advertisements" when they were neither."

Amanda, your argument is no longer with Bethany, it is with me. Leave her alone.

I will not tolerate missives on how to purchase and use the morning after pill on my blog. Do that on your own blog.

Case closed.

Janet - clearly you didn't read what I wrote. You can't just keep abortion pills on hand. Thats proposterous.

But you are providing proof as to how important it is for people to realize what Plan B is, when there are clearly people out there who still think its an abortion pill. By deleting informational posts, you are perpetuating ignorance.

"Amanda, your argument is no longer with Bethany, it is with me. Leave her alone."

Silly me, sorry for thinking she's a grown up who can handle her own disagreements. I'll know better next time.

But you are providing proof as to how important it is for people to realize what Plan B is, when there are clearly people out there who still think its an abortion pill. By deleting informational posts, you are perpetuating ignorance.

Posted by: Amanda at August 20, 2008 8:19 AM

Amanda: I'll be "nice" to you. Plan B is an abortion pill. You already know this from your time on this blog. It's purpose is to back up Plan A which was suppose to be the use of contraceptives.

B. Obama may have charisma but so did Adolph Hitler -- look at how he influenced so many of the German people. He is articulate when he is presenting his rehearsed speeches but when he speaks "off the cuff": he stammers and stumbles. He is not straight-forward or definitive, he presents a lot of esoteric nonsense and has flip-flopped several times on various issues. He uses the same tactics as any other politician and plays the race card. He definitely has a Socialist agenda and would put our national sovereignty at risk. That being said, I am praying for his conversion as well as all those in government and our judicial system that they will protect life from its natural beginnings to its natural end and respect the sanctity of marriage.

I want to make it very clear that I used Adolph Hitler as an example only to make a point about charisma and not agendas. :)

"Obama may have charisma but so did Adolph Hitler"

So did MLK, so did JFK, etc. What's the point?

Case closed.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at August 20, 2008 5:31 AM

Thanks Jill!

Case closed.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at August 20, 2008 5:31 AM

Thanks Jill!

Oh yeah:

"I want to make it very clear that I used Adolph Hitler as an example only to make a point about charisma and not agendas. :)"

"He definitely has a Socialist agenda and would put our national sovereignty at risk."

You most definitely tried to make Obama out to be Hitleresque in his charisma and supposedly terrible effect he would have on the nation. Which is baseless. By the way, McCain has several flip-flops as well; and has stated that he would have no problem choosing a pro-choice VP.

"Hillary would've have been a much better choice for your side"

Nice try Jasper, but you and I know there are warehouses full of opposition reserach on Hillary the Repubs were just dying to roll out. Whether it was accurate or not doesn't matter. We would be knee deep by now in Rose Law Firm billing records, Vince Foster, Whitewater, Pardon-gate, travel office, fundraising scandals, etc etc etc. Anyone but dittoheads want to go down that road again?

All they have on Obama is HisMan's secret video.

Sally I couldn't make my own religion, I would know it's just crap : (

PIP,

Looking at Eileen's post I can only draw the conclusion that she was pointing out the fact that charisma in and of itself proves nothing. It can be used for very good or very evil. Personally I always considered Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan examples of very charismatic men who have not used their gifts in as positive a manner as they could.
Yes Obama is a charismatic man. I in no way equate him with those who have used their charisma for evil purposes. I have no personal animosity toward the man at all.
However, Obama does have a socialist agenda and I agree that without a teleprompter he's lost. That's just from what I have observed, others may disagree. I don't think he held a candle to McCain at the Saddleback debate and I feel the man is dangerously inexperienced. those are the reasons he will not get my vote.

I also think McCain choosing a PC VP would be catastrophic for him being he is only beginning to garner conservative and religious support.
Sticking his finger in the eye of the very people who's support he needs is not wise, in fact its flat out stupid.

Sally I couldn't make my own religion, I would know it's just crap : (

Jess, so then you try again.