Four day holiday hiatus

I posted a month ago that our daughter Daena had graduated from college and was looking for a job in DC. (She majored in political science and French.) Well, she did get the job she was after, working for an undisclosed elected official. So we are moving her to DC this week, to an incredibly small apartment with incredibly high rent.

washington.jpgWe're looking forward to watching the 4th of July fireworks from the slope of the Washington Monument in our nation's capital (!), and then Rich and I will return home Thursday.

So I won't be posting anything until Friday, although I'll be checking in.

I'm leaving comments open, and Bethany and Mary Kay (MK), the site moderators, are in charge. You can contact them at their email addresses in the right column, if you have any obnoxious comments (i.e., threatening, blasphemous, gutter) to report, etc.

Have a great 4th!


Comments:

Jill, have a wonderful and safe 4th! My very favorite Holiday!

Posted by: Heather4life at July 2, 2007 8:05 AM


What an incredible place to watch the fireworks! I hope you have a great time, Jill!

Posted by: Bethany at July 2, 2007 8:13 AM


And congratulations to Deana!

Posted by: Bethany at July 2, 2007 8:14 AM


Diana,

Our post go dropped so I'm picking it up here...

Oh, and I did read the part of the post where you said I wasn't comparing them, but I also read the part where you said you didn't understand how I could be comparing them. And it felt like you were coming after me for it. Could be that this logic paper has been getting me down.
Posted by: Diana at July 1, 2007 10:28 PM

Diana,

No problem. I know the feeling. There are days when I give knee-jerk reactions myself simply because I'm feeling a bit testy.

But yes, that was my point. Laws are based on opinions, they are subject to change (like the slavery laws, and Hitler believing he was of a superior race), so that one day something can be viewed as right and the next day it is viewed as wrong, depending on the opinions of the ruling party at the time.

Therefore, I admit that I can't prove the right to life trumps the right to bodily autonomy, and you can't prove the opposite.

It is simply a matter of opinion. There is an objective Truth there, however. How to get to it is another matter altogether.

I think a lot of what HisMan is always trying to say is that God, as he understands Him, is the only one that knows this objective Truth, and through scripture we can find clues as to what this Truth is. Of course, Faith is also a matter of opinion and not an objective truth so we're right back where we started from.

The only difference is, Hisman and I, believe we know the source of "Absolute Truth", while you are relying solely on yourself for this truth. This doesn't prove we are right and you are wrong. It only shows that we are getting our info. from a source that billions of people use in situations where the truth is an unknown. While you have only yourself to cite.

I'm not attacking you, just trying to explain why Hisman uses scripture to back up his statements. He doesn't trust himself the way you trust yourself and goes to a "higher" source for his arguments. As do I. We are all too aware of the failings of human reasoning and wouldn't put all of our eggs in a basket that we created. Maybe to you that's cowardly, but to us, it's humility. We just know our limitations and place our confidence in something other than ourselves.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 8:19 AM


Congrats to your daughter Jill! I myself and moving in less than two weeks to start a new job. I'm moving 1800 miles away. :( I, like your daughter i'm sure, are feeling a lot of mixed emotions.

Posted by: JM at July 2, 2007 8:20 AM


Best of luck JM!

Posted by: Heather4life at July 2, 2007 9:18 AM


JM,

Congratulations and best of luck to you!!

Posted by: Mary at July 2, 2007 9:21 AM


I'm sad because all my plans may totally be ruined for this week.

We have had so much rain the river in our town is 2" above the FLOOD ZONE and we are only a short distance away from Caney Valley, Kansas, where water is up to rooftops and an oil plant leak caused obvious problems.

Last night I was up until 2am helping a friend evacuate her house--there was flood water 4 houses down from her that we thought was stagnant. We looked outside again and discovered it only a house and a half away. The house across the street was completely moving away. We began moving food from the fridge to her moms house and putting furniture on top of tables, and moving the TVs so they don't get robbed. Putting everythign above the ground. Waking up her kids to walk over to her mom's house. Moving her pets so they don't drown. By the time we were completely moved out, the water was up in their yard. It was horrible.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 12:32 PM


MK,

"The only difference is, Hisman and I, believe we know the source of "Absolute Truth", while you are relying solely on yourself for this truth. This doesn't prove we are right and you are wrong. It only shows that we are getting our info. from a source that billions of people use in situations where the truth is an unknown. While you have only yourself to cite."

I would never rely solely on myself for trying to gain knowledge of the world. While I do rely on my own reasoning, I also rely on the reasoning of others, from the great thinkers of old to people right here on this blog. And while I do rely on my own senses, I also rely on the sense of so many others. You and HisMan may cite the bible, but the bible is not updatable. It doesn't change with new evidence. It was written by men from a different time who had different perspectives. And while their perspectives are useful, as are all perspectives when discussing things like rights and personhood, I'd much prefer to cite philosophers and scientists.

"I'm not attacking you, just trying to explain why Hisman uses scripture to back up his statements. He doesn't trust himself the way you trust yourself and goes to a "higher" source for his arguments. As do I. We are all too aware of the failings of human reasoning and wouldn't put all of our eggs in a basket that we created. Maybe to you that's cowardly, but to us, it's humility. We just know our limitations and place our confidence in something other than ourselves."

I'm also aware of my limitations and chose to place my confidence both in myself and in others, and in the scientific method and the rational progress of philosophy. I don't think it is cowardly to recognize that you alone are incapable of getting at the facts. I'm more than aware that we are fallible beings. I just happen to think that science and philosophy are far more reliable and trustworthy methods for getting at the truth than a book whose chapters were handpicked, including some and excluding others, and was written hundreds of years ago by multiple different men who all shared roughly the belief system and were not concerned with justifying their various conclusions or engaging in the scientific method, but were merely recording history through the lens of their religious beliefs.

Ya'll seem to think that I fancy myself the "all-knowing Diana" or something. I'm well aware that I don't have all the facts. I just happen to think that I have good arguments for my position, arguments that aren't mine, but have been tested out, developed and sharpened for years by others. Those arguments are why I hold the beliefs I do. If I discover that they are faulty in some irreparable way, then I'll change my beliefs. That's part of recognizing our own fallibility.

Posted by: Diana at July 2, 2007 12:54 PM


Many congratulations to your daughter, Jill.

Posted by: Diana at July 2, 2007 1:14 PM


Diana,

If I came across as accusatory I didn't mean to. I'm glad you are open to all ways of seeing something. It's the only way to come to a reasonable conclusion, that right or wrong, is something we can live with.

I too have searched, and read, and questioned before I came to understand that that ratty old book written by myopic old men contained what I believe to be the absolute truth. I don't see where it conflicts with science. I see it as complimenting science. The fact that it isn't updated is one of the reasons that I find it to be so compelling...2000 years later and it still makes total sense and is as applicable to todays society as it was when it was written.

For me, the problem with relying on science is that it deals with cold hard facts, which is great when dealing with insects, diseases or rocks. But it doesn't address the question of conscience or morality. I am less interested in knowing if something is than knowing if something is right.

Your arguments are good. As far as they go. On paper they make sense. But we're not dealing with facts here. We're dealing with something intangible. Unknowable. Unproveable. Mysterious. Supernatural.

And science just can't help in this area. Life is a miracle. Not magic, not some illusion, not something that some scientist concocted or thought up or invented or dissected. It's an unexplainable miracle. You might be able to define how it happens in technical terms. You might be able to control certain aspects of it.

You might even be able to "create" it in a petri dish...but you will never be able to create it out of thin air. That would be God's territory. No matter how many ways we can come up with to manipulate sperm or an egg, we will never be able to CREATE sperm or an egg without using components that are already there.

Life is not something to be trifled with. It is not a scientists toy. We can know the brain, but we can't know the mind. We can know the body, but we can't know the soul. This is why I believe we must tread very, very carefully when dealing with things that are so far above our understanding. And this is why I cannot agree that your right to bodily autonomy will ever, ever, ever trump someones right to life. Especially when that someone is an innocent. Kidneys, lungs, hearts...these do not have souls. And therefore cannot be compared to things that do.

If your response is that you don't believe in the soul, then my response is, of course you don't. You are too locked into the world of facts and science. Myself, I don't care what the sun is made of. So while you are off trying to determine how much hydrogen vs oxygen you need to recreate that great big ball of gas...I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the sunset. Because that is food for my soul.

If I spend 50 years learning everything I can possibly cram into my brain only to get alzheimers at age 70 and forget everything I learned, I will still be able to be in awe of a rainbow...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 1:21 PM


Diana,

I think the fundamental difference between us is that you are saying I do not have the right to take someones organ so that I can have life.

And I am saying that you do not have the right to take someones life so that you can have your organ.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 1:24 PM


PIP, How terrible! I'll be praying for your friend. We're having horrible flooding down in TX too. I'm just praying for the rain to end!

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 2:25 PM


ug! I get back from vacation to this! Jill on vacation! We really need to get a bit coordinated. Have fun Jill. Take some pics if you can.

PIP - I have been thinking of all of you in the new flood zones. I am praying that everyone will be okay. Keep us up to date so we don't worry.

;-)

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 3:06 PM


Okay,
Val is back. I'm back. Jill is gone. Bethany is going...

That sounds pretty coordinated to me...like a waltz!

Hey Valerie,
Lemmings are out. Mullets are in. These fish are nuts! They constantly jump out of the water and do body slams and no one knows why...

They're my new favorite crazy animal...my own theory is that they've been dippin' in the rum!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gbmDcKGlzA

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 3:18 PM


MK -

But I don't like to do the waltz.

Did Johnny spill some of his rum in the Cape?

HIC

It wasn't me!

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 4:00 PM


You know that they just created sperm from bone marrow? No joke. I read it online, and I'm going to see if I can find the article.

Sperm made from human bone marrow

If mature sperm can be grown they could be used in fertility treatment
Scientists say they have successfully made immature sperm cells from human bone marrow samples.

If these can be grown into fully developed sperm, which the researchers hope to do within five years, they may be useful in fertility treatments.

But experts have warned the findings from the German study should be interpreted with caution at this very early stage.

And proposed new laws would ban their use in fertility treatments in the UK.

How sperm is made from bone marrow tissue
The government's recent fertility White Paper proposes a ban on using artificially created sperm or eggs in assisted reproduction.

This kind of work will be very useful in helping us understand the biology of how sperm are made
-Dr Allan Pacey

The researchers from the Universities of G�ttingen and M�nster and the Medical School of Hannover isolated adult stem cells - cells that have the ability to become many types of tissue in the body - from bone marrow samples taken from male volunteers.

Spermatagonial cells

Normally these stem cells from the bone marrow would develop into the different cell types in muscle tissue.

But the researchers induced a small number of them to develop into what appeared to be spermatagonial cells - cells found in the testes which would normally develop into mature sperm cells.

Scientists have grown artificial sperm precursor cells

This is the first time human spermatagonial cells have been made artificially in this way.

And lead researcher Professor Karim Nayernia, now at the North-east England Stem Cell Institute based at the Centre for Life in Newcastle upon Tyne, said he hopes his investigations will mean he might one day be able to treat young men rendered infertile by chemotherapy.

He said: "We're very excited about this discovery.

"Our next goal is to see if we can get the spermatagonial cells to progress to mature sperm in the laboratory and this should take around three to five years of experiments."

He acknowledged that the law may be a stumbling block.

We are still many years away from developing any therapies for infertility using such techniques
-Professor Harry Moore

Professor Harry Moore of the Centre for Stem Cell Biology at the University of Sheffield said: "This finding is of interest but we really need to be very cautious about the interpretation."

The changing of stem cell types observed by the researchers, from pre-muscle to pre-reproductive cells, is known as trans-differentiation.

Caution needed

And Professor Moore said nearly all similar observations of trans-differentiation in adult stem cells had not been confirmed when tested rigorously, as the results could be misleading.

He said: "This is a fast moving field but we are still many years away from developing any therapies for infertility using such techniques."

And he warned that manipulating stem cells to develop into mature sperm could cause permanent genetic changes in the sperm, making the cells unsafe to use in fertility treatments.

However, Dr Allan Pacey, secretary of the British Fertility Society, said: "This kind of work will be very useful in helping us understand the biology of how sperm are made.

"That in itself may provide some insight into why things sometimes go wrong and may lead to new approaches to treating male infertility."

The findings were presented at an international fertility conference and are published in Gamete Biology: Emerging Frontiers on Fertility and Contraceptive Development.

Here's the URL if you don't believe me: here

Posted by: Skinhead Dan at July 2, 2007 4:04 PM


PS Congrats to Deana and have fun in DC! You must be proud for raising such an outstanding and beautiful daughter! My best wishes to you, Jill.

Posted by: Skinhead Dan at July 2, 2007 4:09 PM


Dan,

I understand what you are saying, and it's fascinating, but they got those cells from the human body. They didn't create them out of nothing. See?

This is why we call satan the imitator and God the creator. Satan can't pull stuff out of thin air either. (Not saying that science is satanic...please don't think I am. Just saying that only God can create something out of nothing). Whereas people, and all His creatures, can only manipulate what He has already created.

This is the difference between magic and miracles. Magic gives you the illusion that you pull a bird out of thin air, while miracles actually do.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 4:40 PM


Diana: "I just happen to think that I have good arguments for my position, arguments that aren't mine, but have been tested out, developed and sharpened for years by others."

First they denied it was a life, but recent science proved it to be, so they moved on to other lies, like "personhood" and "bodily autonomy". One day, yes one day you will have to answer for those lies.

Masters of Deception

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3934865f12e3.htm

Posted by: jasper at July 2, 2007 5:47 PM


jasper, Thanks for the links. The abortionists clearly admit over and over again that they are killing a child. One abortionist says that it's a very special and necessary kind of murder. Why do the women who abort continue to be so self deceived?? We can't compare abortion to kidney donations. It's absurd! It's not a fair comparison at all.

Posted by: Heather4life at July 2, 2007 7:45 PM


Hooray for MK and Valerie! Reunions are tons of fun. Breakfast tomorrow!

Posted by: SamanthaT at July 2, 2007 8:36 PM


Wheeeeeeee! Valerie and MK are here! Huzzah!

*tacklehugs*

Posted by: Rae at July 2, 2007 8:49 PM


WOOHOO!

Breakfast! Can it be around noon? ;-)

I love tacklehugs! Thanks!

Posted by: Valerie Author Profile Page at July 2, 2007 10:57 PM


@ MK,

"I understand what you are saying, and it's fascinating, but they got those cells from the human body. They didn't create them out of nothing. See?

This is why we call satan the imitator and God the creator. Satan can't pull stuff out of thin air either. (Not saying that science is satanic...please don't think I am. Just saying that only God can create something out of nothing). Whereas people, and all His creatures, can only manipulate what He has already created.

This is the difference between magic and miracles. Magic gives you the illusion that you pull a bird out of thin air, while miracles actually do."

What about misdirection? What the eyes see and the ears hear, the mind believes. For all we know, every religious figure who has ever performed a "miracle" is just another Houdini.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. Not one bit.

Posted by: Skinhead Dan at July 3, 2007 3:33 AM


Dan,

I have posted tons of stuff for Samantha about miracles that have been going on in the Catholic Church for centuries...

They are still going on today.

Padre Pio, Medjugorje, Rwanda, Eucharistic Miracles....

They may not convince you, but they sure give you pause.


How about it Samantha? Share some of that stuff with Dan. It will be good practice. And I'd love to hear your take on it!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 6:15 AM


Rae, Samantha and Val,

It's so nice to feel loved. Rae, I missed you yesterday. Is everything okay?
I was a tad worr...mph&*gar@#%shag*fer@@nopUGH!

Holy Snikeys! Did you see that? I was just tacklehugged by a group of raving mullets!

Oh, it was you guys...

Right back at ya!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 6:17 AM


Hi to all from DC,

Thanks for your well wishes. PIP, I'm so sorry about the flooding. Flooding is awful. You're the best friend ever to help your friend. Please keep us updated.

My daughter had found her efficiency apt. online one block from the White House, 2 blocks from where she'll work, on the corner of George Washington U. We came here pretty much putting all our eggs in one basket, sight unseen.

The apt. turned out to be cute with a 1940s personality, in a safe place - whew - and after lots of blips, it was hers at 4:30p yesterday.

So we moved all her stuff in, went to dinner in Georgetown, and crashed. Today, we'll organize things and stock her shelves.

I know our college friends will be interested whether she brought her car. She didn't. We rented a cargo van and thought we'd check out the parking situation before commiting. Her apt. has no parking. It's every woman for herself - street parking. But it looks doable. So I have to come back here later this month and will drive it here and fly home.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 6:24 AM


have to chuckle a bit Dan,

we have much incredulity now-a-days. It's almost like we feared being awed. It's just not-cool! It really is kinda comical when I ask someone to perform a very easy task for them ; that is impossible for me. The answer is always "Cool ... no sweat!" when I thank them.

Miracles happen and often these are so unusual that a person is left utterly speechless ... what often is a jaw-on-the-ground moment ... or, a 'God-being-funny moment'. The gospels of Jesus' life are filled with these stories ... I asked a good buddy, why he almost laughed out loud when the gospel was being read. he said, "Picture the scene. A bunch of guys are out in a boat and a squall so severe comes-up that it threatens to capsize the boat. While all this is going on, there is Jesus sleeping ... (I should have said SLEEPING) in the bottom of the boat. So they wake Him [not because He could do anything!] Jesus gets-up, rebukes the storm, the water is calm once again. And Jesus just goes back to sleep."
"Now that IS funny." says my chum. "Can you just picture the jaws of the apostles?"
........ thanks Dan for the memory .....

Posted by: John McDonell Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 7:09 AM


Elisabeth Edwards; Hypocrite:

http://newsbusters.org/node/13888

Posted by: jasper at July 3, 2007 10:27 AM


Abortion: A disease it's not

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD

So, for those women who have had an abortion and might regret it, a Christian group has come up with a name for that regret: post-abortion syndrome.

Sounds like a real, medical problem, doesn't it? Kind of like "Intelligent Design" -- an essentially bogus term used to make people accept creationism as a viable scientific theory rather than what it really is (a really nice story, a myth).

In this respect, Project Rachel, the group slapping a made-up disease name onto people who have had abortions (something it disagrees with), is a wolf in sheep's clothing. What it's doing constitutes a disingenuous attempt by a religious group to influence the public's perception of abortion.

Religious groups, such as the Roman Catholic Church and Priests for Life, fund the program, for crying out loud -- how open-minded could it possibly be? The group refers to fetuses as "unborn babies" and refers to abortions as "taking the life of a child." So while the group catalogs all the things that a woman could experience after having an abortion (clearly, not all do), it doesn't get into the very real hell that unfolds when a woman who isn't ready and able to raise a child has one.

Certainly, some women regret having an abortion. And those who feel they require spiritual guidance ought to get it from anywhere they can, and for this purpose, Project Rachel could come in handy.

But regret is not a psychological disease, and saying that abortion leads to mental illness is just plain irresponsible.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/322136_abortioned.html

Posted by: Hal at July 3, 2007 12:59 PM


"The group refers to fetuses as "unborn babies" and refers to abortions as "taking the life of a child.""

What are fetuses then? And what are abortions?

Posted by: prettyinpink at July 3, 2007 1:08 PM


You know, Hal, you have no idea how offensive it is when you say mock people for calling the children in their womb unborn children. For you to do that is insulting and saying that basically all of my feelings and emotions during this time are completely irrational, as are the emotions of women who go through miscarriages every day! Have you ever seen a miscarriage support group? Do you think they do it all just so that they can prove a point about abortion?? My baby in February died at 6 weeks in the womb...I SAW my baby, and I am no idiot, I know what I saw. And you saw it too.....I feel genuine horrible pain from my loss of my CHILD even moreso since I am going through another miscarriage this month. And people like you are the ones who undermine the pain that I and thousands of other women go through every year through miscarriage, and you do this consistently, undermine the pain of women who regret their abortions, and the pain of women who have gone through miscarriages, just so you can feel justified in your abortions!

Posted by: Bethany at July 3, 2007 1:56 PM


actually, I was just cutting and pasting an editorial from today's Seattle P-I that I thought would be of interest to this group.

I do understand the pain of miscarriage, and have gone through it myself.

I am sorry for your loss.

Posted by: Hal at July 3, 2007 2:17 PM


Sorry for snapping at you, Hal....I'm a little bitter.

Posted by: Bethany at July 3, 2007 2:20 PM


Well, Bethany, it might be deserved in general, but not this specific instance.

I acknowledge it is an emotional subject. The pro-choice side is just as emotionally invested, it seems.

Anyone miss me last week?

Posted by: Hal at July 3, 2007 3:35 PM


Bethany,

we have to consider the source Hal used. A far Left, Marxist newpaper like the Seattle PI. This is type of paper we use to clean up dog-poop with. Like the Boston Globe.

Posted by: jasper at July 3, 2007 3:44 PM


Bethany,

I understand calling a fetus in the womb a "child" is comforting and seems logical, but there are plenty of loving mothers who call the fetus a fetus until it is born and then call it a baby or a child. Just because they use the scientific terminology for the stage of their development doesn't mean they love it any less.

A woman I've gotten to know through a pro-choice board just recently had a child and referred to her baby as a fetus throughout the pregnancy. I have rarely seen this much devotion or love. She uses the medically correct terminology AND is a loving mother. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Posted by: Jen C Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 3:54 PM


"but there are plenty of loving mothers who call the fetus a fetus until it is born"

Really? I never heard of one....

...Mother: "oh, my fetus kicked so hard today"

nah, just doesn't sound right. Jen, the mother spoke of probably worked for Planned Parenthood.

Posted by: jasper at July 3, 2007 4:04 PM


I've noticed that more and more pro-choice women are calling their unborn babies "the fetus". It is bizzare. "Baby" and "child" and "kid" aren't medically acqurate, but you don't hear many mothers refer to their newborns as "neonates".

Think about how bizzare that would sound. "Well, Lisa, I just havn't been getting any sleep at all lately since the neonate came home!"

It's weird to refer to our offspring in medical terms. It's like refering to your sexual organs by their proper names in the bedroom. Sure it's acurate, but we have coloquialisms for a reason.

It is just as acqurate to refer to a fetus as a "child" as it is to refer to an 8 year old as a "child". The word simply denotes offspring at any age. Why in the world would we want to be so technical except to emotionally distance ourselves?

Posted by: lauren at July 3, 2007 4:14 PM


Jen C, in this context:

"how open-minded could it possibly be? The group refers to fetuses as "unborn babies" and refers to abortions as "taking the life of a child."

If we call them unborn children, apparently we're not open minded?? Come on, this is basic stuff. The fetus in the womb obviously is a baby...it just hasn't been born yet. Doesn't matter what the medical terminology is....That's what it is in laymens terms, and for the majority of expectant mothers.
This is why doctors will tell you you're having another baby when you find out you're pregnant. This is why they say, "Your baby has a heartbeat". They don't tell you you've got a fetus in there. They don't tell you your fetus's heart is beating. That's ridiculous. Not to mention offensive. There's no reason to use medical terminology when you don't have to.

The false notion that fetus is not synonymous with unborn child, is implying to all women out there who have suffered from miscarriages that their losses were just a figment of their imagination. How "compassionate" to women! Do you realize how many women cry each day due to their losses? Do you think that's irrational? Do you think that they should just brush it off and say, oh well, maybe I'll have better luck next time, when they see their baby, complete with perfect fingers and toes, expelled on the floor or in a bucket!?

Any mother who would call their child a fetus consistently during pregnancy is obviously overcompensating to make a point as a pro-choice activist.

I'm not saying that she doesn't love her child, just that she's trying to prove her point. It is not the norm for a woman to call her unborn child a fetus. Like it's been brought up a million times here, have you ever seen anyone throw a fetus shower? Have you ever seen anyone (in "real life", not the internet), to tell you, I'm pregnant, with a fetus!!
Have you ever had someone tell you, I'm so excited, I heard the fetus's heartbeat today!

If you have, I can guarantee it was a pro-choice activist. The only reason to for the purposeful continual use of medical terminology as opposed to laymens terms in everyday talk is an attempt to prove a pro-choice point.

Do you hear anyone tell you that they suffered from ventricular fibrillation, instead of telling you that they suffered from a heart attack? What would be the point? Unless for some reason the term "heart attack" offended you?

Posted by: Bethany at July 3, 2007 4:31 PM


"Jen, the mother spoke of probably worked for Planned Parenthood."

If it's who I am thinking of, then it's not likely.

Even if the mother in question is not who I am thinking of, I know at least one who did call her baby girl a fetus throughout the pregnancy. It doesn't mean she loved or wanted her any less.

Posted by: Heather B. Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 4:36 PM


we have to consider the source Hal used. A far Left, Marxist newpaper like the Seattle PI. This is type of paper we use to clean up dog-poop with. Like the Boston Globe.

Nah, my dogs poop deserves better. :-P

Posted by: Bethany at July 3, 2007 4:37 PM


Even if the mother in question is not who I am thinking of, I know at least one who did call her baby girl a fetus throughout the pregnancy. It doesn't mean she loved or wanted her any less.

But it does, however, mean she was pro-choice, and most likely an activist.

Posted by: Bethany at July 3, 2007 4:38 PM


Hmph.

I wish my school's website would just load already. I'd very much like to be able to check my financial aid status because well, it kind of determines whether or not I'll be returning in the fall.

Grrface x10.

Posted by: Heather B. Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 4:40 PM


Sorry about that, Heather...maybe it'll load soon.

Posted by: Bethany at July 3, 2007 4:42 PM


Actually, I too know who Heather and Jen are probably referring too as she's a friend of mine as well, and she's very far from being a "pro-choice activist". She honestly found it unsettling to call it a baby when she was 2-3 months pregnant because it made her think of a fully formed baby in her uterus at 2 months.

Anyway...

Posted by: Rae at July 3, 2007 4:50 PM


What's wrong with that?

Posted by: Bethany at July 3, 2007 4:52 PM


I mean, why the heck would that be disturbing,to imagine a beautifully formed baby in your uterus? Why in the world would that be a disturbing thought?

You know what is a disturbing thought? The thought that there could be a dead baby in your uterus, and that your womb could be a tomb for your baby. That's what is disturbing.

(Rae I am not ranting at you, I am still pretty annoyed with the article above, and it's leftover.)

Posted by: Bethany at July 3, 2007 4:55 PM


"Sorry about that, Heather...maybe it'll load soon."

I hope so.

I mean, I really just want to see if I was approved. I've already decided I'm just going to take a semester-long break, but...given that I was supposed to write an appeal and everything...it would just be nice to know.

Posted by: Heather B. Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:00 PM


Crossing my fingers for you, Heather :)


Posted by: Bethany at July 3, 2007 5:03 PM


Arvicolinae


Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:06 PM


Now see, there's just nothing funny about the word Arvicolinae.

I'm sticking with Lemming. Much funnier.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:07 PM


Lemmings are small rodents, usually found in or near the Arctic, in tundra biomes. Together with the voles and muskrats, they make up the subfamily Arvicolinae (also known as Microtinae), which forms part of the largest mammal radiation by far, the superfamily Muroidea, which also includes the rats, mice, hamsters, and gerbils.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:08 PM


@Bethany: I think what creeped her out, was when she imagined a baby, she imagined a full-sized baby in her uterus when she's 2 months pregnant. It's what she imagined. But then again, it's her, not me and I probably shouldn't try to explain her views and as to why exactly she was more comforted by calling her baby a fetus before she was born.

*shrugs*

I understand though how it can make you frustrated. I was more amused by it myself, and I just think "fetus" is kind of cute sounding (this is just my opinion). :)

I'm really tempted to get another tattoo...

Posted by: Rae at July 3, 2007 5:08 PM


Val? Rae?

What do you think? Which would you rather eat?

A fluoridated olive/lemming pizza?
Or a fluoridated Olea europaea/Arvicolinae pizza?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:10 PM


And Hal,

I for one, was wondering where you were. I had a lot of catching up to do when I got back and didn't see your name anywhere.

Everything okay?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:15 PM


Thanks for asking MK. Good and bad, a short family vacation, and then a trip for a memorial for my sister in law. we lost her the day after Hisman lost his sister in law.

Posted by: hal at July 3, 2007 5:20 PM


"I'm really tempted to get another tattoo..."

I'd really like to get my first tattooo....

Posted by: Heather B. Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:22 PM


Rae,

Don't do it...Does anybody realize what tattoos look like 30 years after they're done? Think 65 year old marines with numerous tattoos turned green...

I saw a woman recently with 20 of 'em and all I could picture was the year 2050 with thousands upon thousands of 70 year old women walkin' around like the old lady on shoebox greeting cards...saggin' breasts, wrinkled skin, and covered in green tattoos.

While the image may seem funny now, I'm thinking of telling my sons to become professional tattoo removers. There'll be a boon in 50 years. They'll be rich.

Women can't even stand the thought of extra facial hair, extra belly fat or varicose veins. How are they going to deal with old green ink covering their bodies?!?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:23 PM


Hal,
we lost her the day after Hisman lost his sister in law.
Bad week for sister-in-laws. I'm sorry to hear that. Was it sudden?

On a happier note, where did you vacate?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:25 PM


Hal, I'm sorry to hear about your SIL.

Bethany, I know *exactly* what you mean about feeling like your womb is a tomb. It is definitely a much more horrible feeling than feeling that your child is a bit bigger than expected.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:31 PM


She was fighting cancer for many years, but we thought she had more time. A most remarkable woman, and dearly missed my many.

Posted by: Hal at July 3, 2007 5:35 PM


@MK: Lol. The inks they use nowadays are much higher quality than the tattoo ink they used "back in the day". :)

I already do have two tattoos, I have DNA around my ankle and I have a henna-style flowers on my lower back. I designed/drew my tattoos myself which makes me love them even more because they are my artwork on my body.

But to answer your earlier question I'll take the fluoridated Olea europaea/Arvicolinae pizza. :D

How was your vacation? Where did you go, Florida right?

Posted by: Rae at July 3, 2007 5:37 PM


I'm sorry to hear that, Hal. I'll be praying for your family.

Posted by: Lauren Author Profile Page at July 3, 2007 5:40 PM


After the 4th of July will be the kick-off of the..

CHICAGO "FACE THE TRUTH TOUR" (JULY 7-14)

------

Here is one of my favorite comments from a previous Face the Truth Tour...

I admit that where I was standing across the street, I encountered very little opposition this time except for some snide remarks. In fact, a number of people thanked me for being there and I was questioned by one young lady to whom I pointed out that all our sign said was "abortion," and had a pictures of an aborted baby. It doesn't even say we're for it or against abortion.

I said, "What if I were holding a sign that said 'McDonalds,' and had a picture of a hamburger. Viewers would assume that I was pro-hamburger, not against hamburgers. But when I hold a picture of an aborted baby they immediately assume I am against abortion. Why? Because everyone knows instinctively that abortion is wrong and that when you hold a picture of an aborted baby you are not supporting abortion, but you are opposing it."

She mused over that analogy for a few seconds and said, "That make sense. Now I have to get to work. I work at McDonalds."

-Joe Scheidler (2003)

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=164709

Mike

Posted by: Mike at July 3, 2007 5:40 PM


Hal,

Sorry about your sister-in-law....

Posted by: jasper at July 3, 2007 8:12 PM


Hal - Sorry about your sister in law. A year after my Mom died we had an Irish Wake for her. These wakes are used to celebrate the life of the person and not mourn the death. It is very up lifting and a great way to remember the good times and not the end. Just thought I would give you my 2 cents. ;-)


Rae - Don't listen to MK. Get the tatoo! I have always wanted one. Who cares what they will look like when you are 50. I just had a baby a little over a year ago and that didn't stop me from wearing a bikini at the beach last week. Why should the fear of loosing your appearance be a problem? Tatoo's can be refreshed, I think.

Heather, Jen, Rae and anyone else -
I can kinda understand the calling a "baby" a "fetus" thing, but it disturbes me a bit. When I was going through my miscarriages all I heard people say was something like "it makes you feel like you are not a woman". The same thing with my friend who had to have a double masectomy because of cancer. People said "How can you feel like a woman without your breasts?" Here is my point. Having babies and having breasts is not what makes us a woman. But these things can give us a sense of womanhood. Saying we have a fetus in our womb does not make us less of a mother; But saying we have a baby in our womb gives us a sense of motherhood. This doesn't mean saying fetus makes the woman any less of a mother, just as loosing a breast(s) makes us any less of a woman; but it can mean that there is a loss of emotion. It means that there is a connection with a child that is lost. Our use of language is what gives us our attitudes; the way we think and feel. What happens when we remove certain forms of emotions? What happens when our attitudes toward something removes a sense of adoration? This can be a dangerous thing. It is shown in history. Once someone starts to belittle something/someone by use of words, anything can happen to what is being belittled. It starts a form of predjudicy. The baby becomes a medical terminology, an "it". This removes a powerful connection between mother and baby. Is the person who says "fetus" a bad mother? No. But it might create emotional problems between the two.

Wow - I'm just giving out my 2 cents left and right aren't I? I hope everyone takes credit, I don't have any money left!

;-)

Posted by: valerie at July 4, 2007 12:23 AM


Valerie,

Why should the fear of loosing your appearance be a problem? Tatoo's can be refreshed, I think.

Ouch! Isn't once enough? And while I don't care about losing my "appearance", many women do...(too late for me...if I did care, I should have started 15 years ago...did you know that your armpit skin can actually hang?)

I have a tattoo myself, so I'm not just being a prude (my design also Rae), just saying that they can be like this site...addictive. And before you know it, you can look like popeye!

This isn't like the abortion issue...do what you want, it's not like your killin' someone. I just had to throw in my two cents...HEY, now we can afford a fluoridated Olea europaea/Arvicolinae pizza. Extra mullets!

Rae,

You say you prefer fluoridated Olea europaea/Arvicolinae pizza/extra Mugilidae now, but wait until you have to search the posts to cut and paste the names...you'll soon be ruing the day you didn't choose olives/lemmings /mullets...but until then, I'll use the "scientific name"...wanna bet that within two weeks you'll be ordering plain Mozzarella di Bufala Campana!

What and where is this new tattoo you're thinking of getting?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 7:03 AM


Hal, I'm sorry for your loss. I did miss you last week.

Rae, did you say what kind of tattoo you were thinking of getting and where?

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 8:04 AM


Hi all,

I'm glad people are using this as an open forum to post items of interest, even Hal's editorial.

Speaking of those posts, rats, we're thinking of staying in DC 2 extra days, and I'll, therefore, miss the first day of the Truth Tour that Mike, 5:40p, mentioned. That's the day it'll be closest to my house. I love the Truth Tours. Truly like going to church.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 8:07 AM


We spent yesterday shopping at Good Will stores, Dollar stores (my daughter's fav), and Target. Picked up a loveseat that folds out to a foam bed (for overnight company), a coffee table, a file cabinet, a plant stand, and a little glass bowl for a little fish.

Tonight we'll watch fireworks, maybe not from the slope of the Washington Monument as I had planned, but from an unbelievable place. More on that tomorrow, if it pans out.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 8:12 AM


@Bethany,

love your posts about the terminology 'baby' vs 'fetus'. I wonder though, if it may be better if pro-lifers say 'momma' or 'mother' instead of 'pregnant-woman'? A note of encouragement for those 'in a family way'. The other relates to her as an individual ... perhaps without bonds .... just some ideas!!!!!!!!!!!

@Hal - I sure was wondering ... glad you are back! PEACE ... for you and your SIL!

Posted by: John McDonell Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 8:42 AM


MK -

What if I just want a veggie pizza hold the Lemmings?

Posted by: valerie at July 4, 2007 8:51 AM


Now Val,

Isn't it a little early to make mary kay crazy?

I guess you'd have to order an Olea europaea/Mozzarella di Bufala Campana/ Allium cepa/Agaricus bisporus/hold the Mugilidae...

Honestly, a good ole hamburger is starting to sound better and better...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 9:02 AM


And of course, NO Arvicolinae!!!!!!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 9:03 AM


John,

What? You don't like our scientific terminology pizzas? C'mon wouldn't you rather have a Olea europaea/Mozzarella di Bufala Campana/ Allium cepa/Agaricus bisporus/hold the Mugilidae and Arvicolinae pizza than a plain old olive/cheese/onion/mushroom hold the mullet/lemming pizza?

baby-fetus...
Olea europaea/Mozzarella di Bufala Campana/ Allium cepa/Agaricus bisporus/hold the Mugilidae and Arvicolinae pizza --- olive/cheese/onion/mushroom hold the mullet/lemming pizza...

I also garden and much prefer rose to Plantae Magnoliophyta Magnoliopsida Rosales Rosaceae Rosoideae Rosa L...

But the bottom line is a rose by any other name...

or

A baby by any other name...


Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 9:09 AM


fabulous MK ... super!

I sure did miss the MK-flare!

Posted by: John McDonell Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 9:31 AM


John you're right...and I actually prefer "mother with child", as opposed to "pregnant woman" myself. :)

Hal, I am so sorry for your loss.

Posted by: Bethany at July 4, 2007 9:34 AM


America The Beautiful

Katharine Lee Bates wrote the original version in 1893. She wrote the 2nd version in 1904. Her final version was written in 1913.

Here is a note from Katharine Lee Bates:

"One day some of the other teachers and I decided to go on a trip to 14,000-foot Pikes Peak. We hired a prairie wagon. Near the top we had to leave the wagon and go the rest of the way on mules. I was very tired. But when I saw the view, I felt great joy. All the wonder of America seemed displayed there, with the sea-like expanse."


America the Beautiful - 1913

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

Posted by: jasper at July 4, 2007 11:15 AM


@Jill, Valerie and MK: I have no idea what my next tattoo will be if I get another one. It's in the planning stages as of now and I probably won't be getting it until my 20th birthday (I tend to get tattoos or piercings on my birthdays...) My parents are dead-set against me getting *another* tattoo or piercing but I honestly don't see the harm. I have pale skin, so the colors show up very vibrantly and look beautiful. I'll probably get it on my foot or hip if I get another one. I've got a few months to design one. :)

Though I had a crazy idea yesterday that had to do with my love of viruses...get an HIV virus tattooed (they are gorgeously beautiful looking viruses...scary as all get out but very pretty) and then make it into a "pinwheel" by adding a pinwheel stick but the pinwheel stick would actually be Ebola! I'm such a geek for thinking of this, but man, it sounds awesome, though I would probably never get it (not a fan of trying to have to explain *that* tattoo to people...lol).

Posted by: Rae at July 4, 2007 11:49 AM


Rae,

If you're dead set on getting a tattoo, then by all means, get a lemming...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 12:04 PM


Yes! A lemming! But people in Minnesota might get confused by the lemming and think it was a gopher and just think I was a hard-core University of Minnesota Golden Gopher fan...which I'm not because my school is soooooooo bad at sports other than hockey.

Posted by: Rae at July 4, 2007 12:09 PM


Happy 4th of July everyone.

Posted by: Cameron at July 4, 2007 12:52 PM


"My parents are dead-set against me getting *another* tattoo or piercing"

Rae, you should listen to your Mom and Dad then...

Posted by: jasper at July 4, 2007 1:22 PM


Rae,

Dang!!! Okay, get a mullet then. Not the haircut, the fish...did you see the video of them...they're nuts!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 1:30 PM


@Jasper: Booo, you're no fun. My parents are ol' fuddy-duddies from South Dakota...they still equate tattoos with biker gangs. I think tattoos are beautiful pieces of art, as long as they aren't those lame cliche tattoos like fairies or tribal arm-bands or something.

@MK: I've never heard of "mullet" fish...perhaps I should look them up on youtube.

Actually, there is a video I want to share with you guys...it's a very positive and hopeful song and it makes me dance, perhaps it'll make you all dance too. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCEDG9kvRtE

Posted by: Rae at July 4, 2007 3:33 PM


Nice video Rae......

Here's one for you, uplifting song (you may have to get stoned to watch, no just kidding)...one of the best guitarists of all time, great guitar playing towards the end...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvT_f_lVyNQ

Posted by: jasper at July 4, 2007 3:56 PM


Mk I remember one time when we were on vacation, we saw people doing a "mullet toss", where they fling the mullet from the Alabama state line to Florida. LOL
http://www.tripsmarter.com/pensacola/archives/events/interstate_mullettoss.htm

Posted by: Bethany at July 4, 2007 3:58 PM


Rae,

My mother doesn't want me getting a tattoo at all (which I won't be, at least not for a while), and she's dead set against the idea of me re-piercing my eyebrow.

Posted by: Heather B. Author Profile Page at July 4, 2007 4:01 PM


Rae,

I got a rose tattoo on my foot and I get more compliments on it. I think it is a very beautiful piece of art. Your parents I'm sure are of my generation, and I'm from the era when tattoos were for bikers and drunken sailors. Only sleazy women, i.e. hookers and junkies, got tattoos. My youngest daughter has two, but at least they are discreet and tasteful. She had a couple of pieces of face jewelry which I didn't like, but being she planned to work in a law office she knew she had to get rid of them, and did, much to my delight.
My nice very elderly mother's response to my tattoo? A big grimace and the remark, "well, you weren't born with it".

Posted by: Mary at July 4, 2007 8:56 PM


I have a Playboy bunny on my ankle.

Posted by: Heather4life at July 4, 2007 9:07 PM


I think you all might get a kick out of this...especially Mk and Rae. :)

http://www.mypartypost.com/watchvideo/2910/SNL-_Turlington_Tattoo_Removal

Posted by: Bethany at July 4, 2007 11:05 PM


Here's another outrage:

In North carolina, The bill to make it a felony to kill a police dog sailed through the legislature, and the bill to make it double murder to kill a pregnant mother is bottled up in a committee.

even a dog lover like me thinks this is twisted...

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=5447006

Posted by: jasper at July 4, 2007 11:09 PM


...as a matter of fact, I don't think the dogs themselves would've let this happen...

Posted by: jasper at July 4, 2007 11:11 PM


Bethany,

that's funny! LOL!

Posted by: jasper at July 4, 2007 11:15 PM


@Bethany: Hahahaha, that's fantastic! Doubly so because I actually have a lower back tattoo...

*snicker*

Posted by: Rae at July 4, 2007 11:17 PM


bethany, funny! I had to show it to my husband. He laughed hard!

Posted by: luvmy5kids at July 4, 2007 11:49 PM


Update on flooding:

My friend had only minor flooding--front yard and back room only. The houses on the other side however were not so lucky. Even the small house behind her fared terribly. Very excited that things worked out.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 2:01 AM


There is still a lot of flooding here and Coffeyville though (earlier I said Caney Valley--i don't know why I said that, but probably because I was sort of panicked and it is the other "C" town close)-if you want to see the pictures, here is a cool article:

http://ardith.newsvine.com/_news/2007/07/02/813961-newsvine-exclusive-coverage-of-historic-bartlesville-ok-flood

This stuff hasn't happened for a good 20 years. Just crazy.

Posted by: prettyinpink Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 2:18 AM


Bethany,

That's it! Breakfast is off. Or we'll do breakfast at the state line of Florida and Alabama...

EVERYONE...INSTEAD OF BREAKFAST YOU ARE NOW ALL INVITED TO A "MULLET TOSS"...

I am too excited!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 7:24 AM


Bethany,

That video was HYSTERICAL!!! I knew I was onto something!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 7:25 AM


Rae,

This is the video of jumping mullets...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gbmDcKGlzA

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 7:25 AM


Pip,

One of the best things about this site is how small the world becomes.

When you hear about flooding (your hometown) or drought (MIdnites-where is she by the way?) you tend to think of it in a remote, surreal way. Then the people on here make it so real, and personal. It makes you stop and realize that "real" people are being affected by these things.

Thanks for that, and I hope it all ends soon. It seems like it's always something these days, doesn't it.

You, your friend and all the people on this site that are going through trials of the personal or meteorlogical sort are in my prayers...

MK

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 7:29 AM


Mk, I love the idea!! That'd be fun! :) haha

I'm glad you all liked the video...I love that one, perfect for this conversation. :-D

Posted by: Bethany at July 5, 2007 8:03 AM


Bethany,

Instead of mullets, maybe we could throw Cam back and forth across the state line...

sorry, couldn't help myself...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 8:13 AM


Ooooh good idea, Mk! We could rent a catapult to make it easier! :)

Posted by: Bethany at July 5, 2007 8:34 AM


PIP, I'm sorry about your friend and the flooding. I'm happy to hear it was minor damage....it's too bad it couldn't have been the same outcome for everyone there!

Posted by: Bethany at July 5, 2007 8:41 AM


Bethany, are you calling Cameron fat?

Posted by: SamanthaT at July 5, 2007 8:59 AM


lol Samantha, I didn't even think about it that way, haha :)

I don't think I'd have the physical ability to carry a man and fling him across, a catapult would be much easier. ;)

Posted by: Bethany at July 5, 2007 9:15 AM


Samantha,

Bethany, are you calling Cameron fat?

If she was, it's probably because it was the nicest thing she could think of...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 9:20 AM


Rae -

I'm going back to the tattoo discussion. I have always wanted to get a tattoo of a dove flying through a ring of fire. Somehow, I feel that the image and symbolism discribes my life. I had a friend who had a tattoo of a wolf's paw print on the top of her foot. It was cool. All that said, I think it was Mary that made an excellent point about these things being visable to all. I see all these young people with tattos on their neck and face and all I can think is that unless their career choice is tattoo artist they aren't going to go very far in life. I have also seen some very weird facial piercings that would not be easily hidden even when the jewlery is removed because of scaring or open holes. Not that many people will hire someone that looks like that unless that person is a genius and appearance doesn't matter.

PIP -

thanks for the update. My sister lived in Cincinnati when part of the downtown area flooded. It was scary! and depressing since my favorite bar got so damaged that the building couldn't be saved. My sister's old house (they had moved out just a couple months before) was flooded and the flooring had to be completely replaced. Everyone in the flood zones are in my thoughts and prayers.


Posted by: valerie at July 5, 2007 10:01 AM


Rae -

I have tried to type this out about 3 times now, and my daughter keeps trying to help me and I lose my post! AAAHHH

Anywho... I have always wanted to get a tattoo of a dove flying through a ring of fire. I always thought that the symbolism and image described my life. ;-) A friend of mine had a tattoo of a wolf's paw print on the top of her foot. It was really cool, but she was to wear shoes that cover he feet while at work. They can't have visable tattoos where she works.


PIP -

thanks for the update. All in the flood zones are in my thoughts and prayers.

Bethany and MK -

A Cam catapult? How about a Cam cannon ball! He would go further.

Just kidding! (I think?)

Posted by: valerie at July 5, 2007 10:04 AM


AAAHHHH!!!

One of my posts got posted about 45 minutes after I attempted to post it! How funny! so, I have some weird dubble postings going on here. Maybe it is the new laptop?

Posted by: valerie at July 5, 2007 10:06 AM


If you push backspace you can usually find the post in the type box again. Hopefully you will be able to anyway! Something has been going on with the blog this morning, I noticed it too.

Posted by: Bethany at July 5, 2007 10:09 AM


Bethany and MK -

A Cam catapult? How about a Cam cannon ball! He would go further.

Love it, Val! :)

Posted by: Bethany at July 5, 2007 10:11 AM


MK, we have to learn scientific and common names in my herpetology class just because common names arent standardized. The Desmognathus would probably go well with lemmings, altho a sub might be better than a pizza.

Posted by: SamanthaT at July 5, 2007 10:11 AM


Just for the record, Val, there are flesh tone or clear plugs that you can use to fill most facial piercings: once you put it in, you can't tell that it's there anymore. I have one for my nose, for job interviews. I have a friend who has three eyebrow piercings who works in a cooperate office: she uses the plugs, I didn't know she was pierced until I saw her without the plugs. So it's possible to pull it off, you just have to be smart about it. And gauging anyof the facial piercings will make the plugs impossible to use, so there's that.

For the tattoos, there's makeup specifically made to hide them. I've heard that you put it on, and so long as you blend it right, you can't tell the tattoo is there. I'm debating doing that at my wedding, as I'm planning a backpiece that'll cover most of my back, and the boy's parents don't like hattoos AT ALL.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 10:32 AM


Valerie,

You told her to get the tattoo...now you're saying she won't get a job...

Have you been hittin' the rum again!

20 mullet lashings for you!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 10:51 AM


Samantha,

A Lemming/salamander/mullet sub?

Dear Lord, we've finally done it...gone off the deep end that is.

Val, pass the rum. I'm gonna need it to wash down that Mugilidae/Arvicolinae/Desmognathus sammich!

Can we at least cut the heads of these guys before we consume them? All those eyes watching me...ewwww!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 10:57 AM


Less,

Does it not strike you as odd that you are marrying a man with a completely different value system than you, who wants children when you don't, who believes in a religion that you abhor, that doesn't know or "approve" of your sexual tastes or appetites, and that you are plugging piercings and masking tattoos just to get down the aisle with him, not to mention you don't even believe in the actual marriage ceremony?

Is it me, or does this relationship seem a little rocky from the get go. Has your fiance actually met you yet?

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 11:01 AM


Less -

I forgot about those plug thingy's, but that won't work on some of the peircings. The new thing around here is putting these round disks in the ear lobe to stretch the lobe and make a hole it the bottom part. I can't remember what that is called but no plugs will help that. I saw one guy who had stretched his lobes more than 4 inches around. Yikes!

Also, the makeup to cover tattoos only works in office type jobs and not the kind of jobs that I do. I (used to - hopefully will again) work with animals. The makeup has a smell to it that some dogs and cats may not like. I worked with animals that have had abuse, etc. and you can't wear anything that smells different than the norm of society. That even means no perfume or perfumed products. Also, I've heard that the makeup doesn't cover all skin tones, but I don't know if that is true or not. Do you?

Posted by: valerie at July 5, 2007 11:17 AM


MK -

Switched to Jack Daniels. Does it show?

HIC!

Posted by: valerie at July 5, 2007 11:19 AM


"The new thing around here is putting these round disks in the ear lobe to stretch the lobe and make a hole it the bottom part."

It looks fine to a certain extent...then it's just gross. I'm not a fan of gauged ears.

Posted by: Heather B. Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 1:40 PM


Actually, MK, we have similar value systems, neither of us want children, I dislike Christians, not Christianity, his parents are the ones who dislike the tattoos (hes drawing the ones Ill be getting) and both he and his parents love the piercings, and neither of us believe that making a commitment requires a large, elaborate, ceremony. Were actually discussing eloping, and would likely go through with it were it not for the fact that both of our parents would be very sad. Honestly, you might want to read what I write instead of assuming.

And the sexual relationship will be figured out soon. ; )

Im sorry you see such a problem with getting along with those who are different than you, but my fiance and I quite enjoy it: we thrive on the discussions that spawn from our ways of seeing things.

Yeah, Val, thats called gauging. Its icky, I dont like it at all. Youre right, no plugs will help that. But as it becomes more common, Ive seen more jobs hire people who have gauges. Id never do it, but more power to those who do. Those makeup depends on what kind you get: theres some specifically tattoo-related makeups that do well and blend with different skin-tones. The cheap stuff is bad, and stuff thats meant for covering scars doesnt work at all. I found it on a wedding website for brides who dont want to show off their tattoos, and Ive heard from several people that its amaaazing. Those youre right about the smell, and I can imagine thatd make it difficult. Im planning on getting a back piece, so minell be covered during work hours.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 2:27 PM


Less,

Sorry if I came across snippy...I was just teasing you. It's obvious from all of your posts that you're crazy about the guy...

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 5:09 PM


If you think gauging is gross check this out...

http://www.suspension.org/

I mean what the what?
I remember when wearing black leather jacket was making a statement. Then long hair. Then tattoos. Then piercings. Then gauging. And now this?

Creepy. What lengths will the new "youth" have to go to for shock value. Makes Marilyn Manson look like the boy next door.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 5:13 PM


eeek!

Posted by: Heather4life at July 5, 2007 5:31 PM


My husband interviewed Manson for a magazine interview. He says that he is quite nice in a peculiar way.

Posted by: Heather4life at July 5, 2007 6:20 PM


I guess it's a musician thing.

Posted by: Heather4life at July 5, 2007 6:23 PM


Darren Hayes video is reminiscent of Max Headroom

Posted by: Cameron at July 5, 2007 6:31 PM


Darren Hayes video is reminscent of Max Headroom.

Posted by: Cameron at July 5, 2007 6:38 PM


I too have heard that Marylin Manson is very polite...which is soooo odd.

@Cameron: Perhaps it's because Darren Hayes is made of awesome? :-p

Posted by: Rae at July 5, 2007 7:27 PM


I have three tattoos. I have a red and black nautical star with the inscription My Life To Live around it on my right shoulder, the japanese kanji for Brothers on my left shoulder, and a green and white shield with an arm & hammer in the middle flanked by a wreath on my left thigh. Tats rock, but make sure you will be able to display it proudly. Don't get one unless you can look at it 10 years down the line and still enjoy it.

Posted by: Skinhead Dan at July 5, 2007 8:28 PM


Oh, it's fine, MK. I got into a car wreck today, am leaving on a family vacation tomorrow, lost important financial aid paperwork, and am missing my boy terribly. So I'm probably a bit overly sensitive myself. ^.^;

Yeah, suspension freaks me out. I consider myself pretty solid, but I can't watch it for too long. It's actually a pretty ancient practice, though: there have been a couple Native American tribes that did it, and apparently some Hindu sects. So it's a bit more historical than, say...eyebrow piercings. :P

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at July 5, 2007 11:46 PM


Val,

You've dumped Johnny for Jack? Who is this Jack and where can I have a word with him?

Oh, I see, you meant you've switched from Johnny and Rum to Jack "Sparrow"! Daniels must have been a typo!

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 6, 2007 7:00 AM


Less, I hope you're okay! [car accident]

Posted by: Heather4life at July 6, 2007 7:56 AM


MK -

I can't believe you got the Johnny/Jack Sparrow joke! My husband said it was stupid. ;-) HAHAHAHA

Less -

I hope it wasn't a bad car accident? You okay? Have fun on vacation!

Posted by: valerie at July 6, 2007 8:51 AM


Less, I hope that it wasn't serious...feel better soon. Have fun on vacation. :)

Posted by: Bethany at July 6, 2007 9:43 AM


Val,

Sick and twisted minds drink alike...er, I mean, think alike...hic*

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 6, 2007 7:10 PM


It was actually a pretty hardcore wreck. My friend was driving and hydroplaned on an already slippery road: we spun out in front of oncoming traffic twice and landed in a six foot ditch. Both of us are fine though, not a single bruise, and the lisence plate of the car was dented, but that's it. The police came and pulled us out, and that was the end of it. He drove home and I met up with my boy, who was more scared than either of us were, and that was it.

I'm headed to the beach, though, so there won't be any internet, more than likely, so I probably won't be responding to posts for the remainder of the week. I'll be checking my blog, but that's about it.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at July 6, 2007 7:34 PM


Well thank God (or whoever you want) and have a great time...stay away from the mullets! And the rum.

Posted by: MK Author Profile Page at July 6, 2007 7:46 PM


Glad you're OK Less...

Posted by: Cameron at July 6, 2007 8:40 PM


I was pretty surprised: it was the first wreck I've ever been in. It turned out so well, though, and everyone was so nice. As soon as I get back from vacation, I"m going to send an email to the local police station regarding how professional and helpful the officer was.

Posted by: HumanAbstract Author Profile Page at July 6, 2007 9:23 PM


Wow, Less, you were very fortunate. I'm thankful you and your friend were not hurt.

Posted by: Bethany at July 6, 2007 9:27 PM


Less,

I'm glad you're OK. How scary. Enjoy your vacation. The beach, I wish!! That's a great idea about e-mailing the police. I did the same thing several years ago after a car accident as well. I'm sure the police officers will appreciate your e-mail. Considering the guff and abuse those men and women put up with, it will be great to get positive feedback. Now don't get a sunburn!

Posted by: Mary at July 7, 2007 6:32 AM


Less -

I'm glad no one was hurt. Have fun at the beach. I just got back from the beach and I would rather be there than here.

Have fun...

Posted by: valerie at July 7, 2007 10:05 AM


"Do you hear anyone tell you that they suffered from ventricular fibrillation, instead of telling you that they suffered from a heart attack?"

Actually, just for the record, a heart attack in medical terms is an acute myocardial infarction, not ventricular fibrillation.

Posted by: Stephanie at July 9, 2007 4:48 PM