Well, well, I have arrived, garnering the attention of People for the American Way.
Albeit the bottom of the post.
And of course they only pick up news boding poorly for pro-lifers
Just consider the source. Isn't it just as presumptuous of these people to say they represent the "American Way" as it was thought to be for Jerry Falwell and his followers to call themselves the "Moral Majority"?Posted by: Mary at June 15, 2007 6:38 PM
The Word says that someone who is skilled at their work will appear before kings. That's you.
Someday, I would be proud to be labeled as an anti-abortion activist. Just another crown to lay at the feet of my Lord.
Press on.Posted by: HisMan at June 15, 2007 7:59 PM
HisMan... someday? Look in the mirror. You're an anti-abortion activist now, my friend.Posted by: Jill Stanek at June 15, 2007 8:44 PM
People for the Un-American way...it should be called..Posted by: jasper at June 15, 2007 9:15 PM
New Hampshire, once a long-time red State has been invaded by the moonbats from Massachusetts and Vermont.
Guess who's behind this one? PP and Democrats...
"NH state senate votes to repeal law requiring parental notice for teens to get abortions"
Note: the state senate in New Hampshire had also been republican for a long time and in the 06 elections turned Democrat majority...Posted by: jasper at June 15, 2007 9:31 PM
Why do you group PP and Democrats together Jasper? I know oodles of Pro Choice Conservative Republicans.Posted by: midnite678 at June 15, 2007 10:18 PM
This is unbelievable...
Philadelphia declared 'Pro-Choice City' by city council. PP help draft the bill.
Vote: 9-8 (all 9 were Democrats)Posted by: jasper at June 15, 2007 11:07 PM
It's simple, the vast majority of pro-lifers are Republican and the vast majority of pro-aborts are Democrat.
The oodles of noodles you talk about are soft and twisted and have lost their flavor.Posted by: HisMan at June 15, 2007 11:08 PM
Awww HisMan, that just means you overcooked the noodles, that's why they have no flavor and are soft and twisted. Such a shame, they could have been good noodles too. Though I myself prefer basmati rice.Posted by: Rae at June 15, 2007 11:26 PM
"People for the Un-American way...it should be called.."
What's so un-American about it, Jasper? Our country was founded on the beliefs that all men are created equal, and therefore have right to express their own beliefs without fear of prejudicial authority. People standing up because they believe that women have a right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy is as American as it gets, and before you call me a baby-killer, let me remind you that I do not condone abortion as a form of birth control like some people believe.Posted by: Skinhead Dan at June 16, 2007 1:17 AM
What is the "American Way," exactly?
Working in a sunless cubical for years, ignoring the fact that you're married with 2.5 children (better hope that last .5 is yours!) so that you can buy a scarlet, rather phallic, sports car?
A cookie-cutter house in a cookie-cutter suburb with a cookie-cutter white fence...all of which are infested with termites because funny, seems this particular "American Way" doesn't put a lot of emphasis on quality.
Is the "American Way" teaching children that little Johnny over there, the little boy in pink, will grow up to be gay (said, of course, with utmost disgust) because he behaves a bit effeminately and plays more with the girls than the guys?
Is it the "American Way" to brand everyone who disagrees with you a "terrorist" who will, of course, burn in hell: they aren't Christian, after all, and Christianity is not only the "American Way," it's the only way.
Is it the "American Way" to teach children that it's okay to say "faggot," it isn't really a bad word, the gays are all immoral anyway. Is it the "American Way" to teach adolescent girls that skinny is the only acceptable body type? Is it the "American Way" to teach our teens that sex is a dirty immoral thing, something meant only for marriage (because everyone gets married, you see, except for those dirty homosexuals), something meant only to conceive?
Is it the "American Way" to judge others based on personal standards, based on personal morals, based on a religion that not everyone follows? Is it "American" to insist that all parents who don't force their progeny into religion are bad?
What is this mysterious "American Way?" I'd love to hear a definition, because I'm frankly lost.Posted by: HumanAbstract at June 16, 2007 1:31 AM
No one has forced you to do anything, have they? If so, who, what, where, when, why?
The American Way it to put up with unthankful, ungrateful people hoping that someday they will realize that we are truly a privileged lot to be among the few of all people who have ever lived on the face of the earth to be able to live in such a great country as the USA.
Perfect? No, but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else except heaven itself.
To whom much has been given much is required. What exactly do you think is required of you, Less? Apparently just to murmur and complain.
I wish you could spend just one mission with my son in the Middle East....18 hour flights every other day for 4 months straight....130 degree days with 90% humidity, not being able to leave the AF base. No complaining allowed.
Perhaps you should go live somewhere else for awhile like Iran, Afghanistan, Uganda, or Darfur, etc., etc., etc. You sound like a spoiled brat unaware of the gift you have been given and willing to bite the very hand that gave it to you.
By the way, it's un-American to kill your progeny before they are born.
For those of you who might want to send Kansas Governor Sebelius a note about how she protects a serial killer maniacal madman, here's a link to her e-mail:Posted by: HisMan at June 16, 2007 3:17 AM
Hooray! They are taking notice of you, Mrs. Stanek, as you have drawn a steadily increasing crowd to view your reasonings. Way to go.Posted by: SamanthaT at June 16, 2007 8:06 AM
How right you are. Having spent a week in a hospital in Mexico and knowing people who have been to missions in Haiti, Africa, and other countries, I can verify all too well what you say as to how we take so much for granted in this country. Believe me, we have no concept of what poverty and hardship is. We snivel and whine, but don't realize that in another country this would get us hauled away in the middle of the night or executed on the spot. I remember years ago when a co-worker asked if the Iraqi people couldn't just "do something like speak out against Saddam Huessein". Another co-worker, a doctor from India couldn't contain her laughter. She said "you Americans take so much for granted. You think all people enjoy the rights you do? People get killed for doing what you Americans take for granted as a right."
I remember reading of one Sudanese couple and their infant who had escaped slavery in their native country and who now reside in the US. They marvelled not only at their freedom to worship, but to even pick the church they choose to worship at! Something unheard of in their own country.
I must admit though Hisman I have an issue with Christians in this country who complain about persecution. I don't know of secret police in this country breaking down the doors of Christians, hauling them to prisons, burning their homes, or raiding churches and executing worshippers on the spot. Christians in this country, as far as I'm concerned, have no concept of what persecution is.
Hisman, also my sincere thank you to your son for his service, and to you as the parent of serviceperson. My father served with the 101st at the Siege of Bastogne.
SamanthaT, 8:06a... thanks in largest part to commenters like you.
I received a high compliment from a big blog master the other day. He said the caliber of commenters on this site - on both sides of the issue - was extraordinarily high.
I agree. I'm always learning from your comments. I'm amazed and impressed by the various areas of expertise.Posted by: Jill Stanek at June 16, 2007 9:07 AM
"Our country was founded on the beliefs that all men are created equal"
yes, you're correct Dan. "CREATED equal"
"People standing up because they believe that women have a right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy is as American as it gets"
Dan, that's false, the problem with organizations like this is that they convey to the public that abortion is ok, thus having an influencing effect on younger people who are pregnant.
"and before you call me a baby-killer, let me remind you that I do not condone abortion as a form of birth control like some people believe."
Dan, I'm not here to condemn you, I would just hope you would see that abortion should never be an alternative. It doesn't help anybody.
Posted by: jasper
at June 16, 2007 10:12 AM
HisMan, I am a military brat. I have lived almost as much overseas as I have in the US. Several of my close family members have been to Iraq; one was there when the war started. I don’t support the war, have never supported the war, and the majority of the family members who were overseas have never supported the war.
Frankly, I preferred living overseas, and will likely return to doing so post grad-school. Europe is far less self-righteous than America, is far more sexually open, and is generally far more pleasant to live in. The US isn’t heaven. We have a terrible colonial history, we nearly wiped out an entire ethnic group and their rich culture, we have issues with abortion when even Mexico is accepting, and our per-city crime rate is astronomical compared to most European cities.
Sinclair Lewis once famously said that “when facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” I can see the beginnings of this, and refuse to bite my tongue out of some misplaced loyalty.Posted by: HumanAbstract at June 16, 2007 12:14 PM
"Dan, that's false, the problem with organizations like this is that they convey to the public that abortion is ok, thus having an influencing effect on younger people who are pregnant."
See, that's where the problem lies. It is ok to have an abortion, but it's all circumstancial. If a woman was a victim of incest/rape and gets pregnant, she should be allowed the right to terminate that pregnancy, as it was forced and unwanted and would only serve as a reminder of that very painful time in her life. Like I said, I don't think abortion should be used as a form of birth control, nor do I believe that a woman should go get one because she's not smart enough to have the guy wear a condom or to be on birth control. Safe sex is extremely easy to practice, and I find out the hard way what the consequences of not practicing it are.
"Dan, I'm not here to condemn you, I would just hope you would see that abortion should never be an alternative. It doesn't help anybody."
Who is to say it doesn't help anybody? It helped Erin and I grow stronger as a couple, and helped me realize that I wasn't being as careful in my practice of safe sex as I thought I was. What happened was unfortunate, and under different circumstances, I would've rather let the baby grow to term and be adopted, but the cold hard truth is that neither Erin or I was ready and we did what we thought was best.Posted by: Skinhead Dan at June 16, 2007 2:00 PM
"Our country was founded on the beliefs that all men are created equal"
Maybe the crux of the 'problem' lies right here. If one looks at the universe, they will note that every thing, even space is not equal but unique. I have little problem with the word 'created', but a terrible time with the unfortunate word 'equal'. We are created (as all things in the universe) uniquely. The word 'equal' is a mathematical term, adopted/applied to humans by Réné Descartes. It is a term of comparison, and so is in direct opposition to 'unique'. Are we not to live our lives uniquely rather than equally? Please note, that a set of laws serves a collective of opinion. A collective applies to uniqueness as it does to those who perceive only 'equal'.
The founders of the American constitution were also the beginning generation of the industrial revolution ... and several hundred years later the assembly line. We are so sold on the word 'equal' that we (especially Americans) treat this almost as a sacred word. In effect, it robs a person of vitality, because it assumes limitation.
Anyone calling themselves 'equal', is putting themselves down!Posted by: John McDonell at June 16, 2007 3:42 PM
Holy 1984 John!
Relax John! Stop worrying about handicapping devices. Despite our lip service to equality and such, we're pretty damn classist.Posted by: Cameron at June 16, 2007 4:26 PM
Less, you sound just like I did about 5 years ago.
Then I realized how blessed I am to have been born in this country.
You complain about how "intolerant" we are in America. Look at Russia. Look at China. Indeed, look at Iraq.
I personally know people who make less than $200.00 a month who gave it ALL to build up a place to worship. I know people who were forced to meet in caves to worship who would be arrested or worse should anyone discover them.
Less, were you aware the leprosy is still a wide spread problem in much of the world. All over Asia there are people living in societies of pluralistic gods who are shunned for their "curse".
These people sleep without any sort of shelter. Think about that, Less. They are literally sleeping beneath trees. This is happening today.
Read The God of Small Things by Arundhati Roy. It shows oh, so clearly the horror still faced by the horrific caste system.
"Enlightened" Europe is degradating into a cesspool of violence. The face the same racism and hatred as the US. Taking God out of the equation for white-Europe has not banished bigotry.
We live in a fallen world, but I am thankful that I do not face all of its suffering due to my residency.Posted by: Lauren at June 17, 2007 9:19 AM
Lauren, thank you for that post. So many brave men fought and died to protect our freedoms. I will always be thankful for those who died to protect our rights. We are so blessed to live here.
Posted by: Bethany at June 17, 2007 10:04 AM
Another thing. You talk of America's colonial past and its injustices. What about Europe's? France, Spain, Holland, Russia, Italy, Belgium, and England were all colonial powers. Spanish conquistadors were aided in their war against the Aztecs by Indian tribes who had been subjugated, i.e. colonized by the Aztecs. Conquest and colonization were universal, certainly not confined to Europe and America. If you're concerned about Christian Fundamentalism in America you should be equally concerned about rising Muslim Fundamentalism in Europe.
Racism, bigotry, and intolerance are as old as the human race and exist everywhere in the world.
Anti-Semitism continues to be a problem in "enlightened" Europe.
I’m not arguing that other nations aren’t intolerant, Lauren. I’m just saying that we’re not the ultimate tolerant country in the world. Other countries might shun people for leprosy, but we have entire churches that shun those who have homosexual relationships. What’s worse: shunning someone for a communicable disease, or shunning someone for the way they were born? Hard to say, but neither is exactly right. There are people in America who sleep without shelter, or sleep in boxes. Racism is rampant, sexism still exists despite our best efforts, there are still schools whose geography textbooks refer to Russia as the USSR.
I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but Europe’s crime rate (at least, Western Europe) is far lower than in the US. Guns aren’t as easily bought, and movies with violence are rated far higher than in the US. There is racism and bigotry, but it isn’t nearly as prevalent as in the US. With the exception of Italy (also a very religious country, correlation?), sexism is not nearly as obvious.
Mary, of course Europe has a huge and absolutely atrocious colonial history. All built the foundation of colonialism on Christianity, and all should be absolutely ashamed of it. I’m concerned about all fundamentalisms: having such strong beliefs that you’re willing to force others to abide by them, or kill for them, is frightening and wrong.Posted by: HumanAbstract at June 17, 2007 1:46 PM
can't speak for Less, but to me she's a reflection of the worst sort of modern journalism .... criticize, criticize .... but offer no solution.
Prior to WWII (1920's & 30's), it was highly popular among some in Canada to denigrate the West and espoused a return-to-Russia scheme. Stalin had other plans and most 'returnees' were never heard from again.
'the grass may be greener over-there!' .... but maybe its so because it lacks your poison and vitriol! Their grass will not remain green because you do not offer life but death. [Read about the life-affirming work of Mother Theresa ... she chose to emigrate to a cesspool - Calcutta, India.] - nuff said.Posted by: John McDonell at June 17, 2007 1:58 PM
Isn't it unbelievable how Stalin was so romanticized? Next to Stalin's mass murdering, oppression, and use of extermination camps in Siberia(where many of these returnees may have been sent to), Hitler looked like a rank amateur.
I understand there are people today who still glorify Stalin and Hitler, obviously because they never lived under their rule.
Colonization throughout the centuries and wherever in the world it occurred was based on acquiring wealth and power, not doing the colonized i.e. conquered people some big service by "civilizing" or converting them. The great empires of Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Americas were formed by conquest and colonization by the powerful of those lands who preyed on their weaker neighbors. Colonized people were looked down on by their conquerors, whoever they were, as cultural, racial, or religious inferiors who "deserved" what they got and were better off for it. This was universal and not exclusively European.Posted by: Mary at June 17, 2007 6:27 PM
Less, ask a Muslim in Europe about tolerance.
Also, the countries that are shunning people for diseases are also shunning (well, killing would probably be more accurate) homosexuals.Posted by: Lauren at June 17, 2007 8:16 PM
Less, as usual, you're right on.Posted by: Hal at June 18, 2007 11:15 AM
"Maybe the crux of the 'problem' lies right here. If one looks at the universe, they will note that every thing, even space is not equal but unique. I have little problem with the word 'created', but a terrible time with the unfortunate word 'equal'. We are created (as all things in the universe) uniquely. The word 'equal' is a mathematical term, adopted/applied to humans by Réné Descartes. It is a term of comparison, and so is in direct opposition to 'unique'. Are we not to live our lives uniquely rather than equally? Please note, that a set of laws serves a collective of opinion. A collective applies to uniqueness as it does to those who perceive only 'equal'.
The founders of the American constitution were also the beginning generation of the industrial revolution ... and several hundred years later the assembly line. We are so sold on the word 'equal' that we (especially Americans) treat this almost as a sacred word. In effect, it robs a person of vitality, because it assumes limitation."
Here's the thing, though, John. We are all unique, yes, but when it comes to our civil rights, we are all equal. A black man should have the same rights as a white man. A woman should be able to do the same work a man does. Gay people should be able to get married and adopt children. Just because we're American doesn't give us the right to deny someone else a right to lead a fairly normal life.
Anyone calling themselves 'equal', is putting themselves down!
Hi Skinhead Dan,
The problem stems from the word 'equal', but I should explain. In any caste system (European aristocratic societies are one example) there is a higher and lower. This system compares one to another as 'in' or 'out'; 'saved' or 'doomed'; 'washed' or 'clean'; 'up' or 'down' ..... etc., etc. 'Equals' is part of the comparing and so does not radically leave this view as inappropriate.
If we put numbers to values - then we have a 2(lower) =/= a 10(higher). The American constitution shifts this a person is a 7 = 7 , right. But an 'equal' comparison is a strict comparison, so 2 = 2 or 4 = 4 ......... etc. What happens if everybody has it wrong and humans are designed to be 29,456[unique]? We are stuck at 4 (because we have to be 'equal').Posted by: John McDonell at June 18, 2007 5:09 PM