Does anyone KNOW what screenwriter Diablo Cody's position is on abortion? Because if I remember correctly from some of her writing in the MSP City Pages, I'm pretty sure she's pro-choice...

"Heroically rejects abortion?"

Abortion is openly dicussed in two of those movies, and implied in the third. While none of the protagonists choose to have an abortion, nowhere is abortion portrayed as a "bad" thing.

Is every movie where the main characters is not portrayed as religious "anti-Christian?"
Is every movie without a salute to the flag "anti-American."
Is every movie without an abortion "anti-choice?"

Nope.

I noticed that the lead charater in "Passion of the Christ" had no pets. Should I glean from this that the movie was about a sociopathic animal hater, or maybe that animal ownership was not germane to the plot line?

"Waitress" Knocked-Up" and "Juno" were about CHOICES. All the characters suffered the consequences of their decision to carry the pregnency to term.
Furthermore, had the leads in those movies chosen abortion, those flicks would have been about 15 minutes long, and you really can't charge $9.00 for a 15-minute movie.

Ooooooooh!
The "Juno" screenwriter IS pro-choice:

Topstory interview with Diablo Cody:

The movie Juno makes some powerful suggestions regarding pregnancy and against abortion. What you're take?

DC: I had one image in my mind when I wrote this. That was of Juno sitting across from Mark and Vanessa Loring being polar opposites to her, and then having to audition to adopt her baby. To me, that was the movie right there. It was a weird image, and I couldn't have gotten that if she had an abortion. She had to have the baby in order for me to execute the story.

It's hard, Jason and I wanted to make the movie as personal as we could rather than political. Juno never moralizes about the choice she makes. We never get a speech like, "I can't kill my baby." I'm pro-choice, so for me it was very important that the movie not seem to have any kind of anti-choice agenda. Um, but when she's in the abortion clinic, I think of myself as a teenager. I was kinda this anxious, phobic little kid, and I was afraid to have blood drawn. I would have freaked out if I was about to get an abortion!

So she bolts out of fear. It's a personal choice not moral, I don't think. At the end, everything turns out alright, and then people say, "This is a candy-coated vision of reality." You know what, I had a friend who had a baby when she was a teenager, and everything turned out alright. It happens. And it's not always a tragedy. And I think women are being punished all the time for making so-called mistakes. I'm not going to punish my character.

It seems that the late "Waitress" screenwriter was pro-choice:

The producer of “Waitress,” Michael Roiff, said Adrienne Shelly, the film’s writer and director, weighed the concept of abortion as the “good New York liberal” she was. But from a story point of view, Ms. Shelly, who was murdered last year in her New York office, found richer material following the pregnancy through, Mr. Roiff said.

TRIFECTA!

The screenwiter on "Knocked Up," Judd Apatow, is pro-choice:

"I am pro-choice and I don't think anyone should tell anyone else what to do with their bodies or their points of view. I think those decisions are very personal and no one has the answer, so I am pretty solid in that position. But I also think it's a very interesting story when you decide not to get an abortion."

I was probably too late, but I emailed for the shirt, Jill! :)

I am looking forward to watching this movie. And I don't know what Laura's trying to prove, but I don't think you ever claimed the writers of the movies Waitress or Juno were pro-life. Maybe I missed something.

By the way, I can't seem to open your article...the link seems to be coming up with an internal server error.

All directors of the three films pro-choice: hmmmmmmmmmm....all three wrote films about not having abortions and stated similar comments that when a child is not aborted, it makes for such a better story. Ironic, eh?

All directors of the three films pro-choice: hmmmmmmmmmm....all three wrote films about not having abortions and stated similar comments that when a child is not aborted, it makes for such a better story. Ironic, eh?

Posted by: AB Laura at December 19, 2007 9:42 AM
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No, if all three protagonists chose to terminate their pregnancies, there would have been only 15 minutes worth of material.
All three movies were pro-choice, carrying to term being one of those choices.

all three wrote films about not having abortions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not one of these films was about "not having abortions."

Laura,
Honestly, you seriously make me laugh!

Not one of these films was about "not having abortions."

I beg to differ. All three films are about crisis pregnancies, women in difficult situations where abortion would seem to be the easy way out. A one-night stand with a pot-smoking loser, a woman leaving her husband working a blue-collar job, and now a teenager. If these movies had pregnant soccer moms, then the movies would be just about pregnancy and babies, however in all these movies Jill mentioned, the unexpected pregnancy results in fear and the potential for abortion and all three characters, against the grain, chose life.

These movies are very much about not having abortions. It seems to me that even the very pro"choice" writers recognize that choosing life is a better, more palatable, richer option than sending a baby down a garbage disposal.

Honestly- who could think someone with the first name Diablo would be pro-life? She's obviously pro-choice, just like her namesake.

"Honestly- who could think someone with the first name Diablo would be pro-life? She's obviously pro-choice, just like her namesake."

LOL

Bethany, thanks. Fixed. And congrats! Your t-shirt is in the mail!

The uncaring receptionist's face is laden with piercings.

Come on Jill, just b/c someone has piercings does not mean that they are uncaring.

Piercings and tattoos are a form of self expression.

Tattoos are art, whether you chose to see them that way or not; they are. I have two tattoos. Granted you can not see them when my clothes are on. In fact you can only see one when I am in a swimsuit.

It is a butterfly on my lower back, and it has my grandmother's intials in it's wings. My grandmother practically raised me when I was little and I looked at her like a second mother. She loved butterflies, and so did I as a child. When she died, I developed a small obsession with them. I got that specific tattoo (with her intials) so I could always remember her, and always have her with me. It's my own little memorial to a great woman who died too young.

My other one is of a four leaf clover. The leaves are in the shape of hearts; it is appropriete b/c I am Scotch-Irish.

Both of my tattoos have a personal meaning, as they do with (most) people who have them.

In fact, every single person I know that has a tattoo (& that is a lot) says each one of their tattoo's has a personal meaning to them.

Dont be so quick to judge a person based on their appearance Jill.

Woohoo! I won the shirt! Thank you, Jill!
Congratulations Roger! :)

Midnite, I don't think Jill was saying that a person who has piercings is always uncaring. She was describing the person in the movie with two descriptions: First, the receptionist was uncaring (which you can confirm by reading other accounts of the movie). Secondly, she had piercings. I do understand why you might see it as saying that people with piercings are uncaring, but I can guarantee you, Jill does not think like that.
Some articles I have read have called the receptionist "gum smacking", but I don't think that they're trying to say that anyone who chews (or smacks) gum is necessarily uncaring. Anyway, just wanted to help clarify that somewhat.

Bethany,

I see your point, but just simply say the woman was uncaring. There is no need to include the piercings description. Many people in our still stigmatize people with visible piercings and tattoos. And I think this is truly sad.

Some of the most caring, loyal, and just all around great people I know have "sleeves" down both arms, and double zero gages in their ears. They are the sweetest people I know, and strangers and the street treat them with disrespect and pure meanness b/c of the way they look.

*that's supposed to say many people in our society....

But the woman's face was laden with piercings... Jill was simply making an observation of what she looked like. Writers generally try to give an idea of the appearance of someone they are writing about..not because you necessarily "need" to know, but because it makes it easier for you to visualize it in your head. Anyway, I agree with you. Many tattooed people are great, caring, sweet individuals... Of course, by the same token, many tattooed people are truly weirdos. LOL Believe me... I have some of them in my family.
BTW, I have a navel ring.

Where I wrote tattooed, I should have written tattooed/pierced.

Yeah, I got some wierd tattooed people in my family as well, but they are Jerry Springer material. So that is neither here nor there.

Well Midnight, if one is proud of their self expression being expressed as ink being pounded into skin cells, should you not have placed them where all may admire your devotion to your forebearers?
Say the neck, or next to the eyelid?
Or demuringly the ankle?
Maybe between the thumb and finger?
Now, the forearm might be a bit macho, but it could allow others to admire your decision to ink yourself.
Now, Midnight, I use my free will to spell your name in the traditional spelling of "light", as the spelling you use is from attempts to sell beer to lite drunks watching their weight.
Now, don't get emotional and jump up and down and become like a young buck pursuing a female deer.
If I find my esteem and worth in some object of art, I don't hide it where no one can see it.
Say a big old horned buck which I shot hunting.
Only a person doubting their decision to kill the buck would hide the art work performed by the taxidermist.
Only a person doubting their decision to ink themselves would hide that so called self expression.

Bethany,

How are you doing to day by the way?

I'm doing great, Midnite! :) Yesterday was my hubby and my 9th anniversary, and the day before that was my 27th birthday. : D Kind of nice having them so close together.
The kids drew me lots of pictures and James bought me a pretty ring. :) How about you? I hope everythings going good for you! :)

Midnite - the piercings-laden receptionist stereotyped the abortion mill. You can make a case that nice people have multiple face piercings, but they're usually more indicative of anti-establishment, punk types.

they're usually more indicative of anti-establishment, punk types.

Is this a fact that you've read somewhere or is this a stereotype you have in your head Jill?

Well Happy belated Birthday and Anniversary!

I've been good since finals have been over; a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. Oh, and I got my grades back today, all A's and B's. So YAY for me :-)

I think tattoos are trashy. No stereotype intended- the act of getting permanently self-mutilated with ink, regardless of the significance to the inked person, is not something I consider "classy."

Tattooed and pierced people may be nice people, but I think that act of getting a tattoo is the equivilent of a body shot, dirty dancing, public drunkeness, etc- only you where it with you everywhere.

Aww come on, Jacqueline...you mean to tell me these people don't have class? LOL

Thanks, midnite...and congratulations on the A's and B's!

Sorry those pictures turned out so big... lol

Jacqueline:

Well, that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it (& YAY for no stereotypes).

You might think it is "trashy" and not "classy"; but I am not trashy.

Bethany:

Those are tattoos and piercings taken to the extreme though, lol. It's rare you see a person walking down the sidewalk with that many piercings.

I know, lol, I was just having a little fun. If you type "face piercings" in google images, there's tons like that!

I actually can't wait to work up the courage to get a belly button piercing (go you, Bethany!). And I want a small unicorn tattoo on my hip. I love unicorns. My friend has a cute little heart on her hip and it's nowhere near trashy. :D

Bethany, did you have to take out your piercing when you got pregnant? (Just for future reference...)

Lyssie:

It is advised to take out a belly button ring when you get preggers, b/c since your tummy stretches, the hole will too. It can also get infected during pregnancy (happened to a friend of mine).

But you can always get it re-done after having babies :-)

I've got my belly button done, and three holes in each year. I've got the two "normal" piercings and then on one ear I've got my cartlige (sp?) done and on the other one I have that little piece that's on the inside of your ear, and pokes out a little.

Anyone have any clue what I am talking about?

And I used to have my nose and tongue done. I really miss my tongue ring sometimes...

Isn't anyone going to bring up the Jamie Lynne Spears fiasco. (I didn't know she existed until yesterday.)

Do all of you Planned Parenthood/full disclosure people agree that her boyfriend should be sent to prison?

(I'm embarrassed that I'm even bringing this up. It's SO tabloid...)

Lyssie, yes, I had to take it out when I was pregnant, but only after about the 6th month. That's when it started to get uncomfortable. They do make bendable belly rings for you to wear while you're pregnant, but I just went without. And I was able to put the ring back in after having the baby. Never really had any problems with it.
I have pictures if you want to see (throughout pregnancy)...I can send them to your email.

I dont think the Spears thing is statutory rape Laura. If I am not mistaken the age to consent in Louisiana is 16, so no laws were broken.

I have tattoos, and I'm proud of them. One is a strand of DNA around my ankle, the other is a henna-style flower on my back. My next tattoo will be an origami crane with the words, "Who would have thought it could be amazing" designed into it (10+ points to whoever gets the song reference).

I also have a nose piercing (I normally only wear studs, though I do wear an actual ring for funsies on Halloween). I also have two piercings in both ears. For my 20th b-day I plan to get my traguses pierced. :D

From what I've observed at abortion mills, most of the employees don't have visible piercings/tattoos; some of the escorts do. I've met very few, in either category, that aren't hardened, foul, arrogant, stupid, and calloused, whether they were punk or more conservative in appearance. That stereotype isn't without foundation in that regard. The credulity of women who honestly expect compassion from people whose stock in trade is the heinous cruelty of dismembering living babies never ceases to amaze many of us, nor does the callousness of other women who dupe them into finding out too late that we, not the profiteers, were telling them the truth about induced abortion.

I often admire the artwork of tattoos (multiple piercings don't appeal to me), but think that God was right to forbid the practice. From a practical standpoint, I understand they're incredibly painful to have removed should one reprioritize the passion that inspired a tattoo to begin with; then, of course, gravity has a way, over time, of reprioritizing other things so that what will look fresh and snappy on young skin loses its punch over time. I realize that some people get tattoos, sometimes very pretty, elaborate ones, as expressions of devotion to God; to me it's somewhat ironic, but He looks on the heart of us all; I'm not even sure that He especially notices our skin. I also think that some very hurting (therefore caring) hearts are looking to the piercing/needle culture to anesthetize some serious emotional pain; but that there are other ways that don't have the potential downsides of permanent tattoos. Why not get either a temporary tattoo in the design(s) of your choice, or, if you want sleeves & more, a nude-colored unitard and have it decorated accordingly? It would be much less painful, easier to change, and if you still want to make those same statements that same way decades down the road, it will be more readable on a unitard than on sagging, wrinkled skin?! Some people may call you a "sissy" for not getting your skin inked, but if so, what are they trying to prove, and to whom?

Weren't the eleborately tattooed skins of holocaust victims especially valued by the Nazis for making lampshades? I believe they were... Another reason to opt for the unitard, the way things seem to be going that direction in the "quality of life" v. sanctity of life battles in some crucial warzones.

OK, enough on that. My oats are sufficiently salted (as in, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...but if you put salt in his oats, he'll drink... ;), and I'm looking forward to seeing this movie as soon as I can when it opens in my city. I knew a young lady once who became pregnant early in high school, and refused to submit herself or the child to an abortion. As far as I know, they're both doing well now, and this has been at least 15 years ago...

Rae,

A strand of DNA around your ankle? That has got to be the most interesting tattoo I have heard of ever I think. Got any pics? I'm interested.

what exactly is a traguses?

That might be what I have I can never remember the damn name for it.

And I am proud of my tattoos as well.

I am about to get another one, I think.

I dont think the Spears thing is statutory rape Laura. If I am not mistaken the age to consent in Louisiana is 16, so no laws were broken.

Posted by: midnite678 at December 19, 2007 1:40 PM
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It's 17, and she's been living with him for some time.

OK, well how old is her boyfriend?

Laura:

Most prosecutors will not try to make a case against two teenagers who are both under the age of consent. They'd both be charged with it.

And whether or not they live together is irrelevant to her pregnancy.

Although, DHR should have some issues with it.

http://minnesota.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=36869197&l=f4150&id=13956917

@Elizabeth: It's not the greatest picture, I took it with my cell phone myself about a year ago. :)

I like that Rae!

@Midnite: Thank you kindly. :)

I love that tattoo, Rae. I only have three piercings...one in my left ear and two in my right...my mom and I split the pair of earrings for my double right-ear piercing. We both have a diamond stud and the same right-ear second piercing. I love it.

I designed my unicorn tattoo, but my cat puked on it, dangit. I have to sketch it again. The only things I can REALLY draw are horses/unicorns, and cats. I've been drawing them since I was 4.

And Bethany, I would love to see pictures. I'm sure it looked awesome to have a pierced pregnant belly button. :D I had considered getting a tattoo near my belly on the inside of my hip, but the thought of it stretching from being pregnant eventually scares me. :P The belly button piercing wouldn't be nearly as bad. So that's why the tattoo is going on the side of my hip instead...less stretching. :D

I think specific tats for a reason (military, for example) are way different from 'What kind of tatt can I get for $90?' Ive seen some pictured of full body Japanese tattoos that were awesome. Other people look like one great big walking doodle pad. One on line acquaintance said her son had Jimmy Hendrix one one hip cheek, Jim Morrison on the other and they were looking at each other across his crack ... I hope neither Jimmy or Jim know about that, where ever they are -

Lyssie, I had my belly button pierced when I got pregnant..I ended up taking it out cause it hurt..and it has since closed...but my belly button looks all funny now with where the hole was and how my skin stretched. Because of how it looks now, I wish I wouldn't have gotten my belly button pierced. My other friend who had a baby has a funny looking belly button ring hole now too.

Haha, and now I bet you have the mental picture of me and my friends looking at our belly buttons with our kids running around making a mess. ehh..pretty close to the truth anyway LOL!

Bethany: you mean to tell me these people (extreme tatto/peircing cases) don't have class?

Harrumph - just wearing a backwards baseball cap is bad enough.

Hahaha, Elizabeth, I'm still going back and forth deciding on the belly button ring....considering I've never had the "flattest" of tummies, it's not top of my list. Definitely want the tattoo, though. And a few more piercings in my ears. I'm not big on facial piercings....my roommate just got her eyebrow done and all i can think it "AAAAGGGGHHH!".

By the way, my roommate's name is Elizabeth, too. :D

The thing I'm most concerned about with being pregnant eventually is stretchmarks and a poochy belly. NOT looking forward to that...I don't even KNOW how Heidi Klum escaped those, because she looks WAY too fine. *sadness*

@Lyssie: Heidi Klum is an alien. That explains EVERYTHING. :D

Harrumph - just wearing a backwards baseball cap is bad enough.

LOL

I have one tattoo, it's low enough to be covered by most shirts, but high enough to not be a 'tramp stamp'. It's a black and white detail of an olive branch with the words "Sophia Aiae" in ancient Greek. It means "wisdom always". I'm still a piercings virgin- I don't even have my ears done!

Yes, because every movie where a person chooses to carry a baby to term is going to send pro-choicers reeling.

*rolls eyes*

Get over yourself. Pro CHOICE is about CHOICE which means we support a woman's CHOICE to carry a baby to term. Wow. Hard concept to grasp, I know.

Pro-"choice" movie critic Lisa Schwarzbaum gave the movie an A- because:

"Truth: The old-school feminist in me wishes Juno spent more time, even a tart sentence or two, acknowledging that the options taken for granted by this one attractive, articulate teen are in fact hard-won, precious rights, and need to be guarded by a new-generation army of Junos and Bleekers, spreading the word by text message as well as by hamburger phone."

The reason she gave it a minus was because she wished it would have dwelled on abortion a little more.

Also, check this out:

From The Culture and Media Institute

Where’s the Abortion?
Washington Post film critic alleges ‘moral hypocrisy’ in pro-life message.

By Kristen Fyfe
Culture and Media Institute
July 16, 2007

Two box office successes this summer, Waitress and Knocked Up, feature main characters that are pregnant. Both are unmarried. Both are less than thrilled with their pregnancies. Both have their babies.

Somehow this is a problem for The Washington Post film critic Ann Hornaday, who wrote in her July 15 piece, “It’s a setup that has some viewers, especially women who came of age in a post-Roe v. Wade America, wondering just what world these movies are living in.”

Well, Ann, they’re living in the modern day world where the number of out-of-wedlock births among 20- and 30-something women is dramatically up, according to a poll conducted by Pew Research. Just look at Brangelina, if you want to see what that looks like in real life.

Hornaday’s piece basically makes the point that because the word “abortion” isn’t even mentioned, because the characters in these two movies never consider (on screen) the “option” of abortion, that somehow the movies are flawed and represent Hollywood’s “moral hypocrisy.” Her argument? According to Hornaday, the characters who find themselves pregnant in these movies should be morally repugnant to the presumably conservative audiences for whom Hollywood has excised the abortion option.

To further the inane argument, Hornaday quotes New York Press film writer Jennifer Merin, who is also the president of the Alliance of Women Film Journalists. Merin says, “I think it’s shocking that the subject of abortion as a choice has been so eliminated from the discussion.” That the topic isn’t “even on the table” supposedly undermines, according to Merin, “anyone’s claim that Hollywood has a liberal agenda.”

Hey, Jennifer. Did you see Brokeback Mountain? Hollywood’s liberal agenda hangs on a whole lot more than two pregnant characters, whose very pregnancies are the crux of the movie plots.

For Hornaday, who cites Dana Stevens from the liberal online magazine Slate, classic, brave abortion storylines include the subplot in Dirty Dancing where one of the supporting characters has an abortion (and nearly dies from it, but she doesn’t mention that part). There’s also the “fearless” Citizen Ruth, described as a “scathingly funny satire about abortion politics.”

Yeah, “abortion” and “funny” go together really well.

Hornaday and other feminist, pro-abortion journalists just can’t fathom a world – the real world – where some people, regardless of marital status, will choose to exercise personal responsibility and carry a pregnancy to term. Will choose to give birth to the human being growing within them. Will choose life.

Lots of people are doing it, Ann. In the real world and in the movies.

Kristen Fyfe is senior writer at the Culture and Media Institute, a division of the Media Research Center.

A friend of mine went to the local première of this movie and the told me it was really good. She got a t-shirt and a pen that looks like a pregnancy test (teehee). I'm really excited to go see it. It looks cute!

This friend, by the way, is avidly pro-choice. In fact, she and I are having a debate tomorrow on abortion against two PLers. We are so prepared it's ridiculous.

On that note, I'm off to bed. I want to be well-rested.

'Night all!

Yes Bethany, this made QoTD a couple weeks ago:

"Truth: The old-school feminist in me wishes Juno spent more time, even a tart sentence or two, acknowledging that the options taken for granted by this one attractive, articulate teen are in fact hard-won, precious rights, and need to be guarded by a new-generation army of Junos and Bleekers, spreading the word by text message as well as by hamburger phone."

see, that radical abortion generation she talks about is hopefully starting to go away now...

Jasper, hard to say how the generational changes will work out. I do feel we are going into some relatively "tough times" for Americans, and there will be some fallout.