Why do we associate Hollywood with hedonism? Leno is still Hollywood. Hollywood is famous for fornication and adultery in most programs and their final antidote for a fornication malfunction/pregnancy is abortion.

Abortion is he worlds pathetic solution for a sin problem. The wages of sin is death. They call the death sentence for the precious unborn baby and not the sinners.

Jill,

fantastic article.

Thanks, Jasper!

Good Morning Jill,

An excellent article. I saw a presentation on the situation in Afghanistan. One woman finally had a surviving baby after losing six children.
We can't even imagine the life circumstances of these women. Leave it to the feminists to think allowing Afghan women to abort as the ultimate in liberation and life enhancement.
Another example of their appalling arrogance and ignorance when it comes to women of other cultures and circumstances.

Ha Ha! Great article. This is the Jill Stanek I know and love dearly!

Jill,

Very interesting and distressing where the gender imbalance is concerned. One cannot envy the position this puts feminists in. I remember reading in a 1982 nursing journal that even in our greatly enlightened United State, 4 our of 5 of the fetuses aborted for being the "wrong" sex are female.

Let's see, there are some famous adages over the centuries,

"When the gods want to punish men they answer their prayers....(I believe this was spoken by an ancient Greek but I'm not certain), also

"Be very careful what you wish for..... you just might get it.

Haven't feminists even begun to comprehend what happens when abortion is legalized in countries that already devalue the lives and worth of women?

2 Marys??

To the first Mary,
I agree with the crazy notion that the world's women need abortion to somehow "help" them.

Good Morning Carla,

No 2 Marys, I wrote all these posts.

Thanks, MaryMary!! :)
I always love your comments!!

Carla,

Thank you for the compliment about my posts.

I knew I was putting on weight but "2 Marys"?? :):):)

Dear Mrs Leno:

Try going w/o food or water for 13 days and then come and tell us what you think about "life support"!

Afghan women don't want to abort, they want their children. *gasp* Women who actually **want** babies.....on the next Geraldo!

Let us not be as clueless as the American Left on the issue of women and Islam (submission). Though I disagree with Mrs. Leno on the issue of abortion, I applaud the fact that she, unlike the faux feminists on the Left who can only criticize America, is speaking out against what Mo and his minions have wreaked upon women for 1400 years. Which of these islamist actions are pro-life? Honor killings? Throwing acid in the face of school girls for the audicity of trying to get an education? Burning down girls' schools in Afghanistan and the Swat Valley?

And wake up to the fact that those honor killings and imprisoning of women in their own homes are HERE America. Go visit the graves of Amina and Sara Said or -- if you can find it -- the unmarked grave in Canada of murdered Aqsa Parvez. Note the outrage, Jill, in Orland Park when the police arrest a woman for beating a toddler girl to death and the men of her mosque object that her mug shot did not feature her in hijab thus "dishonoring Islam"!!!! Murder doesn't dishonor their beliefs -- bare head and neck of a woman does!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bev, make no mistake, I am sickened by the treatment of girls and women in godless countries. I am a true feminist and a biblical egalitarian. The solution is Jesus. No other solutions will work. The response to the Taliban is Jesus.

You might want to add that Jay and Mavis are one of the few Hollywood couples that stay married. The sexual Revolution has destroyed families and relegated many poor and blue collar people irrevocably to the bottom of the heap.

Also, I have heard fellow Catholics applaud the "modesty" of Islam in draping women. It is NOT modesty in the Judeo-Christian sense. It is born of Mo's fear of women and their "power" over men. (Well at least he was honest about that.) However, having married a wealthy widowed businesswoman, 15 years his senior and his former boss, I think he was desperate to assume the upperhand. Wife #13 or #14 would be the 6 year old Aisha but don't worry, he did not consummate we are assured until she was 9. Well that's a relief.

My point is that Islam has as disordered a view of women and our sexuality on the one extreme as Hollyweird has on the other extreme. Neither fits in with a true JudeoChristian understanding of ordered liberty for the individual within the framework of personal responsibility to society and one's LOVING heavenly Father.

Further reading: Robert Spencer, Nonie Darwish, Brigitte Gabriel, Wafa Sultan, Serge Trifkovic. Search YouTube for Wafa Sultan, a REAL feminine feminist.

And just who will be the prey of those millions of "extra" Chinese males' urges ... hmmm? ... Japanese women know about such things and should fear for the futures of their little girls.

I love "imaginary people" because it's unbelievably weird to say that people poof into thin air. What birth? Science? ¿Qué es eso?

Anyway, Islam used to be more geared to equality than it is now- mosques were even designed so that people would not have to sit higher or lower than each other. Now, with groups like the Taliban in charge...it makes people declare war on Muslims instead of terrorists, and it's not fair at all. I think that the best thing that we as Christians (those of us who are Christians here) can do is just to remember that we are called to love one another and try to help Muslim women...apparently, the feminists can't be bothered to do it.

Yeah, it's important to note that true Islam is different from theocratic Islam and these extremists do not take the Koran seriously, just as there are Christian extremists too that we would not consider true follower's of Jesus. And I'm not sure making these countries a Christian theocracy will be much of an improvement.

Also, I have heard fellow Catholics applaud the "modesty" of Islam in draping women. It is NOT modesty in the Judeo-Christian sense. It is born of Mo's fear of women and their "power" over men.

That's a pretty big presumption. How do you know why Muslim women wear head scarves?

Au contraire. The "extremists" take the Quran and the ahadith quite seriously and devoutly follow the example of their "perfect man" Mohammed in their actions toward women and infidels.
There are peaceful Muslims but Islam is not now nor ever has been peaceful.

Alexandra: Consult the reading list. You have had 8 years since the towers came down and 13,000 terror attacks world wide since then. Get thee to a book store, library or Amazon.com!

Bev, I have read plenty on this subject, and I am well aware of the tragedy on 9/11. I also know many Muslims who do not conform to your claims. I did not ask if some Muslims are terrorists, I asked how you know the reasons Muslim women have for dressing modestly.

BevC: I like your comments.

Alexandra, my understanding is that the women wear the burka because the MEN do not want any other man seeing his wife,daughter, sister etc. Therefore, she must be covered from head to toe. And this in a very hot climate. Although in Afghanistan the burkhas are blue in other countries they are often black.
To me, a woman from another culture, when I see these women, I feel like these are people in walking shrouds. To see nothing of a person except their eyes is disconcerting. I simply cannot see how this can be liberating for any woman in any situation.
It doesn't offer them protection from men, who often grab and molest any woman they see in the streets. It is so common place but the women do not protest because they are too afraid to.

Angel 4:01PM

I have heard Afghan women praise the burkha as "beautiful". Also, there were women who chose to continue wearing it, even after the downfall of the Taliban.
Afghan women themselves may not feel comfortable appearing in public uncovered. This can be the result of deeply ingrained cultural and religious beliefs. Also, married Afghan women cannot look at men who are not their husbands. The Burka makes that much easier to prevent.
I think much of the covering we see on these women and those in other Muslim cultures may be more cultural than religious in origin. These were and are larely tribal people with very rigid customs.

I understand that in Iran, the chador was at one time voluntarily worn as a symbol of piety, much like a Jewish man would wear a skullcap. It was not required. After the ayatollahs took over in 1979, women were required to wear them. I understand this angered many of the more traditional Iranian women who felt this took away from the true meaning of the chador, which was a symbol of religious piety.

It's not just "imaginary people" -- i.e. disabled people and the unborn -- that Mrs. Leno wants to see left by the wayside. She's supporting an organization devoted to keeping women isolated, frightened, ill-informed, and totally at the mercy of whatever quack abortionist is nearby. She hates fetuses so much that she's willing to sacrifice their mothers to get rid of the dreaded scourge.

Alexandra, my understanding is that the women wear the burka because the MEN do not want any other man seeing his wife,daughter, sister etc. Therefore, she must be covered from head to toe.

From speaking with many Muslim women, and from attending Muslim student sessions, and from reading quite a bit of literature, my understanding is completely different. There is an element of what Catholics might view as...I don't know, not being an "occasion of sin" for others. But mostly these women view it as a way to willingly show their submission to their religion. I live in a community with a lot of Muslims and these women certainly are not oppressed, but many choose to cover their heads anyway.

Women who view the scarves this way oppose making such attire mandatory because they view this as a perversion of the practice. Their view is that it should be voluntary, a symbol of piety and modesty, not a symbol of oppression.

Women who view the scarves this way oppose making such attire mandatory because they view this as a perversion of the practice. Their view is that it should be voluntary, a symbol of piety and modesty, not a symbol of oppression.
Posted by: Alexandra at April 15, 2009 5:24 PM

I would agree but I don't think that this is how it is practiced for the most part in Muslim countries. I have had some contact with women who wear the burkha. Personally I feel very very uncomfortable with this because it is so culturally different. I could barely see this woman's eyes and only through netting. To be honest, I felt sorry for her. She was very restricted in movement and all in black on a very hot and humid day. Try as I might, it seemed a tad ridiculous.
I honestly believe this is NOT something God would want. The body is beautiful and can be covered in a more appropriate manner.

I honestly believe this is NOT something God would want. The body is beautiful and can be covered in a more appropriate manner.

I agree with that, which is why I don't wear any kind of head scarf and is one of many reasons I'm not a Muslim. But I don't think it's fair to say that Muslim women who cover up do so not out of "modesty in the Judeo-Christian sense" but just because Mohammed was scared of women. That's pretty off-target -- about as off-target as the accusations that Christians hate sex or whatever.

As for heat, one of the women I know once told me that she finds her attire pretty comfortable in the summer because it's loose and provides shade. Personally I'm more comfortable wearing as little as possible in the summer, but again -- personal choice.

Alexandra and Angel,

Speaking of heat, look at the attire of our ancestors in this country. How our great great grandmothers dressed in hot weather. Long sleeves and skirts, huge hats, high collars. I can't even imagine. My skinny mother wore a girdle no matter how hot the weather. I remember the traditional attire of nuns.
I grew up before air conditioning was common. We opened windows. Heat was relative, even as a young adult.

But I don't think it's fair to say that Muslim women who cover up do so not out of "modesty in the Judeo-Christian sense" but just because Mohammed was scared of women.

sorry but I don't happen to agree. I think that a large proportion of Muslim men see it as a way of controlling their women. A women in a burkha is an object, IMO. It is all part and parcel of the same thing to me. A Muslim woman has all of the duties of an adult but none of the rights. Not being able to drive, not being able to go anywhere without a male relative, not being able to speak with anyone including women strangers even in the presence of a male relative.
In my line of work, I see this daily. I ignore it and speak directly to the woman,even if the man talks back to me. The sense I get is that the woman is pleased to be recognized as a human being and to be spoken to in front of a male relative.

Being married at 12 or 10 or 8 with absolutely no chance to say no. No chance to be educated and develop one's talents. These things also bother me. Imagine how much these Muslims countries lose in the subjugation of half of their population. The lost talent and the lost contribution to their society is sad to think of.

Angel,

I have had experience with Amish patients. I was suprised that the husband made all the decisions concerning his wife's care and the wife quietly deferred to him. Even when I spoke directly to the woman she would not respond. I also found this awkward, as you do with Muslim women.
Its hard to find people who live their Christian faith more than the Amish.
Its easy to let our cultural biases step in here but we must realize that these women may not perceive this situation as we do.
One could just as easily view Amish women as oppressed as you do Muslim women.

Mary, I agree with you completely.

A Muslim woman has all of the duties of an adult but none of the rights. Not being able to drive, not being able to go anywhere without a male relative, not being able to speak with anyone including women strangers even in the presence of a male relative.

This is not true of any Muslim women I know. What you are describing is a result of theocracy, not the religion itself. Even countries where women are so restricted were not always this way -- the countries became this way after religious radicals forced their beliefs on the whole population.

Women who are free to control their lives, and who choose to live according to strict rules, are not oppressed women. Women who are forced by their government to abide by strict rules are oppressed.

Angel 8:36PM

I can understand your good intentions in speaking directly to the Muslim woman, but it may have made her very uncomfortable and produced an awkward situation with her husband. Just as her husband speaking to your husband/father and not you may be very awkward and unpleasant for you. She may prefer her husband do the speaking.
By the way I have seen this situation cross culturally, it is not restricted to Muslims.
It was my impression the Amish woman did not want to address me directly and did not. I may have thought I was being respectful, she may very well have not. In her culture, her husband makes the decisions, period. What I thought of it was irrelevant.

Haha Mary, for some reason I get REALLY nervous ordering food in restaurants. It's kind of a long story. But anyway my boyfriend usually orders for me. Sometimes he worries that he looks like a controlling jerk. And sometimes the waiter has to clarify how I want something cooked and I feel bad if they're confused about who to talk to. If he addresses me I respond with no weirdness, but my boyfriend also can answer for me without a problem if the waiter addresses the question to him.

It's not like I can't order for myself. I do it all the time, when I'm out with friends. But there is something very touching and relaxing about my boyfriend just doing it for me, without me having to ask him to.

Sometimes I worry that people somehow form a negative impression of us because of that. But at the end of the day I don't really give a darn. I think it's sweet that he is willing to speak for me when I'm not comfortable speaking for myself, and I think it's especially sweet that he does so without letting himself be affected by other people's opinions.

His parents once said, "What, can't the girl speak for herself? Shut your mouth and let her talk, for heaven's sake!" and I was just so mortified. I felt so stupid and small and just absolutely misunderstood. All the rest of the people at the table looked at me, and the waiter looked at me, and it was like there was this big spotlight on me in an insecure moment.

Obviously that's like .00001% of the situation at play with Amish couples, or strict Muslim couples, but it is interesting. We definitely have a pretty egalitarian relationship, but every relationship is made of the two people in it, with their own preferences and opinions and desires and insecurities. As long as those opinions/desires match up I don't really see a problem.

Alexandra,

My cousin and her husband were selling their home and one of the potential buyers was an Arab couple. The Arab man wanted to speak with my cousin's husband only concerning the sale of the house. My cousin was quite insulted. I'm certain the man had no intention of being disrespectful, he probably thought he was being very respectful.

Alexandra,
I think that is totally sweet that your boyfriend orders for you. My husband does that too. :)

Yeah, Mary, it's really interesting to see how cultural norms can be so badly misinterpreted. My default opinion is that as long as both people are comfortable with the relationship then it's fine; obviously I have a problem when one person is not free to choose anything but that situation, whatever the situation may be.

Yay, Carla! You know, I was almost too embarrassed to even admit that. I'm so happy I'm not the only one.

On occasion I've ordered for my husband... not when he's there though.

I do think that in many cases, woman do choose to where burkhas or head-coverings, and that is not oppression. I believe that women should submit to their husbands, and I don't think that's oppression. It's not submission if you don't have a choice, really.

And I also think that it's ridiculous when American feminists think that woman in other countries want abortion. They rarely do, and when they do (as when they are pregnant and unmarried) it is actually because of the oppression of women--that they may face death for getting pregnant out of wedlock. Not that they don't want to be pregnant, but that being pregnant may cost them their lives. They could be helped much more by anti-rape policies than by pro-abortion policies.

YCW,
I agree with your last paragraph but wonder is it all about the money? I mean does Obama and his peeps want to export abortion for financial gain? Why must abortion be a world wide "right?"

I can understand your good intentions in speaking directly to the Muslim woman, but it may have made her very uncomfortable and produced an awkward situation with her husband. Just as her husband speaking to your husband/father and not you may be very awkward and unpleasant for you. She may prefer her husband do the speaking.

uh, no. When they were leaving, the woman who was following the man, turned to me and mouthed a thank you.
I have no idea if she was his daughter or wife or some other relative.

I don't see how one can compare a boyfriend ordering dinner for someone he cares about (which has always been a sign of respect for the lady, btw) to not being able to see a doctor without a man's permission, or having to be driven everywhere because you are not allowed to drive.
I don't see the societies of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan being built on mutual respect of the sexes. What I see is a furthering of distrust between the sexes and the complete subjugation of one sex by another.
I think one elderly Afghan women put it quite succinctly: "It's a man's country"

Carla: I think Obama and his cronies believe abortion must be a "world right" because they believe that women will never be liberated until they are liberated from their biology. Therefore, it involves the exporting of the Western ideal of feminist emancipation which is based exclusively on "reproductive freedom".
We all know this means abortion, birth control and it's associated evils.

Angel, everyone has been very clear to say that forcing women to wear a scarf, or whatever, is not okay. What I take issue with is the assertion that such actions, when chosen freely, are a sign of Islam's fear or hatred of women.

Angel,
Thank you. I have a very hard time wrapping my head around it. Abortion is freedom and empowerment and emancipation for women!!! Wrong. Wrong. And Wrong.

hi Carla! Long time no talkey! :)
Saw your comment on RHReality recently. (abortion pride - yeah, right!! - interesting that many women who had abortions wrote in about feeling exactly the opposite.)

And my point Alexandra is that in many of these countries there is not such option as "freely chosen"!

BTW one of children has a very good Muslim friend whose family left Pakistan 2 years ago because things were going to hell there. This person went to a Catholic school and they could see the writing on the wall. The Muslim religion has never been about moderation. Just ask the Polish/Ukrainian and Lithuanian peoples how accomodating the Muslims were to them. Or you might try reading a little Spanish history.

should read "one of MY children" Yikes!

Hello angel!! :)

I went to RH because of the article about Silent No More. I took it personally because I love my SNM ladies!! I got sucked into a few articles over there!! heh heh

Then, angel, your concern is the lack of choice and you don't disagree with me at all. Bev apparently believes that even when modest rules are freely followed they're still reprehensible.

well Alexandra, I still think that an educated Muslim woman will likely choose to live a slightly more freer life. Wholesome but not necessarily shrouded and isolated from the public square.
And I do believe the Muslim idea of modesty is a corrupted one. You should know that I'm a person who has never worn a halter top nor a bikini, so it's not like I'm against modesty!

I would agree that the Islamic idea of modesty is corrupted, and I think that Islam probably does view women as inferior. I think Ken may be right about the origins of Muslim women covering themselves so thoroughly (though I believe those who freely practice that today probably do so out of submission to their religion and to their God).

I think that many of their customs and religious practices are neither wholesome nor good, but I do think when no one is harmed by them (as with not driving, wearing a head scarf or burkha, and not speaking to strangers but letting a male relative speak for them) and they are following these customs freely, we cannot and should not interfere. (There is a difference, of course, when it comes to honor killings, sex-selective abortions, or abuse. These actions are harmful and steps should be taken to stop them when possible.) If in America, a woman (whether Muslim or Amish) chooses to wear clothing we find uncomfortable, not speak to strangers, and submit to her husband's decisions, we need to allow her that freedom. However, if she wants to stop doing those things, we should also make sure she can, and protect her from her own people if necessary (not as much of an issue with the pacifist Amish there).

Some 300 Afghan women have been pelted by stones as they gathered to protest a new law that critics say legalises marital rape. Police struggled to keep counter-protesters away.
The law says a husband can demand sex with his wife every four days unless she is ill or would be harmed by intercourse. It passed last month.
Women's rights activists scheduled a protest today attended by about 300 mostly young women.
But the group was swamped by counter-protesters who shouted down the women's chants.
Some of the protesting men picked up gravel and stones and threw them at the women.
The men shouted 'Death to the slaves of the Christians!'
As one woman noted in the prior coverage linked above, "If you speak of human rights or women rights in Afghanistan you get accused of having converted to Christianity."

Female police held hands around the group to create a protective barrier.

The previous article was from UK's DAILY MAIL the following from Agence-PressFrance. Feel the love. Free to choose? Not with Mo's sharia.

BAIDOA, Somalia (AFP) — Hardline Islamists in the southern Somali town of Baidoa have ordered women to wear full body veils and businesses to close for prayers, a spokesman said Wednesday.
"We are giving a three-day deadline to all women living in the region to cover their body with thick veils," Sheikh Abdiasis, a local spokesman for the Shebab group, said at a press conference.
"If they fail to comply with that order, they will be sentenced to 12 hours of imprisonment," he said, complaining that many women in Baidoa were still seen without a "jalabib", the local head-to-toe Islamic garment.
Baidoa, 250 kilometres (155 miles) south of Mogadishu, is officially the seat of Somalia's transitional federal parliament but was conquered by Islamist insurgents in late January.
The Shebab official also said that businesses should close five times a day for prayers and that owners ignoring the order would face five days in jail.
Surely there must be a memo on beards in the works.

Similar measures have already been enforced in Merka and Kismayo, the two other major southern cities controlled by the Shebab and their hardline allies.
Some parts of the population in Baidoa, one of the country's traditionally more cosmopolitan towns, had been reluctant to comply with the strict interpretation of Sharia, or Islamic law, advocated by the Shebab.

Well, heck -- if a fetus is just an "imaginary" person, then there's certainly no reason for abortion clinics to be doing such swimming business. Just "imagine" that the fetus is something else -- a rainbow, maybe! Yay!

Yay, rainbow birthing! Woot woot! Woot woot! I would imagine that my fetus would be a cloud. Nice and fluffy.

Heh, you made me smile, Bmmg39. :).