... Next week Polish pro-lifers will unveil a huge billboard in one of Poland's large cities (unnamed now so as not to jeopardize the plan) reminding the public of Adolph Hitler's push for abortion during the Nazi occupation....
Translation: Abortion for Polish women introduced by Hitler on March 9, 1943
... Under Hitler's guidance, the Berlin Chamber of Physicians loosened the Nazis' abortion policy in 1933 so as to use abortion as a tool to exterminate nondesirables. It determined "the health of the mother - considered from all angles - is the decisive factor" for abortions.
Flash forward to the US Supreme Court's definition of the abortion health exception in its Jan. 22, 1973, Doe v. Bolton decision, which was, "all factors - physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman's age - relevant to the well-being of the patient."
Great minds think alike, or plagiarize sometimes.
Hitler also introduced the novel concept of free-standing abortion mills in a 1942 policy statement:
It will be necessary to open special institutions for abortions and doctors must be able to help out there in case there is any question of this being a breach of their professional ethics.
What vision. Hitler would no doubt have approved of locating American abortion clinics in minority neighborhoods....
Continue reading my column today, "The abortion clinic and other novel ideas of Adolph Hitler," at WorldNetDaily.com.
I am sure you have noticed frightening parallels between the rise of Hitler in the 1930's and today's administration.
As an old military man, I certainly have.
The Nazis killed in 12 years:
30,000,000 human beings
The abortionists have killed in 20 years:
1,000,000,000 human beings
Think about it.Posted by: Joe at February 17, 2010 11:23 AM
An interesting link on Hitler/abortion/eugenics connection:
Greetings from European pro-life movement!
Russia also allowed for mass abortions at the beginning of and since the Bolshevik Revolution... and was one of the first countries to institutionalize it.
Adolf did not invent such things... but his boss, the Devil, did.
Welcome, Euro!Posted by: Jill Stanek at February 17, 2010 2:36 PM
Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approachesPosted by: Hal at February 17, 2010 2:43 PM
This Godwin is on purpose, though, and therefore does not count, internet junkie wannabe.Posted by: Keli Hu at February 17, 2010 3:08 PM
Sorry, Jill,but you have all your facts wrong.
In fact, when Hitler took power in 1933, the Nazis made abortion illegal,period.
Comparing legal and safe abortion in America to the Nazis is just plain ridiculous.
The US government has never forced women to have abortions.And if politicians who are anti-abortion fanatics ever get power in America, they will be far closer to the Nazis than our current government. If they make abortion illegal again, they will turn this nation into a police state in their attempts to stop abortion, and those attempts will be futile anyway.
And their repression won't be confined to trying to stop abortion. Once women lose the right to choose abortion, it will be a slippery slope to taking more and more of our freedoms away.
Be careful of what you ask for.
Doesn't mean it isn't true, Hal.Posted by: xalisae at February 17, 2010 3:41 PM
"In fact, when Hitler took power in 1933, the Nazis made abortion illegal, period."
Um, no. Try reading.
When it came to mass murder, Hitler was a rank amateur compared to fellow leftists Stalin and Mao, the idols of the American left.
Also, the German intelligensia were already turning German hospitals and mental institutions into death camps when the Nazis came to power. The Nazis certainly didn't start the extermination of "undesirables", i.e., those with disabilities, etc. but they certainly didn't stop it. Jews were not the first and/or only victims of concentration camps and gas chambers.Posted by: Mary at February 17, 2010 4:33 PM
No you didn't Robert you didn't just equate the bloody, gory, dismemberment, decapitation, torture, death and suctioning out with vacuum of innocent human unborn babies with the "slippery slope of taking our freedoms away" and "be careful what you ask for" warning admonition to a bunch of prolifers on a PRO-LIFE BLOG. The blog of a nurse who held a DS baby in her arms for 45 minutes while he took his last breaths after being born alive after a botched abortion.
Wow!! You are indeed a sick man with PADS or Pro-Abortion Derangement Syndrome or PDDS Pro-Death Derangement Syndrome. The Nazis, Margaret Sanger and slave owners who justified their actions of cruelty to the "unfit," would be very proud you.Posted by: Prolifer L at February 17, 2010 4:46 PM
How can anyone looks at those pictures of those precious little ones,that have just been aborted and say Baby, what baby! My heart just sinks everytime I see thoses pictures. God have mercy on us!Posted by: Pati Adams at February 17, 2010 5:00 PM
Yes, the Nazis DID make abortion illegal in Germany. They wanted "aryan" women to have as many aryan babies as posssible.
And the way you describe abortion as "bloody, gory dismemberment and torture " is just plain ridiculous. I happen to know that that is not what abortion is like at all, since the vast majority of abortions take place before a fetus can even feel pain, and late term abortions aren't just done for women's convenience.
Your description of abortion is so hysterically exaggerated and over the top as to be beyond belief. And for your information, the horrible photos anti-choicers claim represent abortion are in fact doctored photos of miscarried and still-born fetuses. The whole thing is a complete fraud.
That's not to say that pro-choicers like me want abortions tohappen and like them, but we just don't want the government interfering in a private matter between a woman and her doctor.
And yes, if abortion becomes illegal again and the government tries to enforce the law as vigorously as possible, it WILL create a police state in America, and the government will be constantly invding people's private lives, and innocent people will be prosecuted.
The ADL, which represents a large number of American Jews, does not appreciate equating abortion with the holocaust:
ADL Calls On Governor Huckabee To Refrain From Using Holocaust Imagery
New York, NY, October 23, 2007 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) called on presidential candidate Mike Huckabee to refrain from invoking Holocaust imagery, following his recent use of the term "holocaust" to refer to abortion.
The former Arkansas governor was speaking at the Family Research Council's Values Voter Summit in Washington D.C. when he referred to the "…holocaust of liberalized abortion
In a letter to Governor Huckabee, ADL National Director Abraham H. Foxman said: "The Holocaust was a unique tragedy in human history – an attempt by the Nazis to exterminate the Jewish people that led to the deliberate murder of six million Jews. We find the use of analogies to the Holocaust in other contexts deeply painful, disturbing and offensive. Such analogies can only trivialize and diminish the horror, and cause further pain to Holocaust survivors and to those alive today who lost friends and loved ones
The majority of American Jews are Pro-choice.
And BTW, if Hitler was pro-aborts,
why wasn't he excommunicated by the Vatican? Hitler died a Roman Catholic. After his death, there were memorial masses in his honor. Catholic bishops threaten to excommunicate pro-choice American politicians. Why wasn't Hitler excommunicated?
@Artemis: There's not really good evidence that Hitler was a Catholic. There's such good evidence that even Hitler didn't know what religion he was that even TVTropes comments on it.Posted by: Keli Hu at February 17, 2010 6:52 PM
Concerning the term "Holocaust" I have heard it used to describe the black experience in this country. There is a "black Holocaust" museum in the state I live in. Any number of people on this planet may view their own history of mass murder, brutality and enslavement as a "holocaust". BTW, I have heard the deliberate massive starvation of 10+million Ukrainians by Stalin as the greatest holocaust of the 20th century.
The ADL chairman should understand this term does not pertain exclusively to the Jewish experience in Nazi Germany. Also, we have freedom of speech in this country and Mr.Huckabee is free to use the term as he sees fit.Posted by: Mary at February 17, 2010 7:43 PM
that's why some refer to Abortion as America's HIDDEN HOLOCAUST.
I have a long sleeved shirt that says "Abortion: America's Hidden Holocaust".
Posted by: LizFromNebraska
at February 17, 2010 8:15 PM
we just don't want the government interfering in a private matter between a woman and her doctor.
Posted by: Robert Berger at February 17, 2010 5:15 PM
That line doesn't work any more, Mr Berger. Proaborts can no longer use that argument credibly after coming out in support of Dem health care reform bills loaded with government interference in private medical decisions. Nice try, but your side showed its willingness to surrender privacy and restrict choice in nearly all aspects of health care if it means increased funding for the abortion industry.Posted by: Fed Up at February 17, 2010 9:53 PM
Robert you are indeed an idiot. I have been in the operating room while ob/gyns performed D&Cs don't you dare tell me that I am exagerating about the blood and gore of a woman on the operating table in lithotomy position having her legs spread eagle, her vagina opened with a speculum, her cervix dialated with dialators, the currettee inserted and being rammed around in her uterus to dismember and tear her baby limbs and body into pieces, blood streaming down, then vacuum suction inserted and powerful vacuum applied. Then the doctor has to inspect every piece to see if he/she has got it all so the women won't bleed even more and hemorrhage or get a smelly nasty life-threatening infection. DO NOT tell me or any other healthcare worker that it is not bloody. Even on a fetal demise of an already dead baby it is still a bloody business and on a live baby (who is fighting for his or her life that is why they don't show the ultrasound to the mother) it is worse.
Don't worry I won't waste my time posting to a sick, deranged, pro-death troll.Posted by: Prolifer L at February 17, 2010 11:18 PM
I saw a patient actually begin to hemorrhage during a post miscarriage D&C. Last thing I expected to happen during such a "routine" surgery. Thankfully the doctor got it under control but the woman lost over 3 units of blood.Posted by: Mary at February 18, 2010 8:47 AM
No, I'm not an idiot and the description of abortions is highly exaggerated. In the vast majority of legal abortions, there is absolutely no physical harm to a woman.
But if abortion does become illegal again in America, things will be far,far bloodier for women, and many will die from botched illegal or self-induced abortions, the way they do in countries all over the world which do not allow abortion.If you think things are bad now....
This nation cannot afford to go back to the bad old days. It will be absolutely barbaric.And the government will not be able to enforce the law no matter how hard it tries.Aborttion will not only not cease but will increase, as it invariably does when it is made illegal.
You call yourselves "pro-life". You're not.You're anti-choice and anti-abortion.And you dead wrong. If people like you get your way you will cause a catastrophe for America and many,many poor women.
All your arguments against abortion rights are false, and those who also want to make contracptives illegal are the real idiots, not me. That will only make the situation worse.
It will be like lighting up a cigarette at a gas station.
You want the impossible, and not only that, you favor the government creating situations which will only increase abortions. You are completely out of touvch with reality.
Where is "freedom" when the government tries to interfere with women's private matters? And then there's the slippery slope to even more government prying into our bedrooms.
With freedom like this, who needs tyranny?
If illegal abortion was so bloody and dangerous why was the death rate at an all time low the year prior to Roe? Likely because the doctors, midwives, nurses, and other medical people that performed them were considerably more careful than abortionists today need be. After all, the former could face prison sentences. Abortionists today need not concern themselves.
Also, antibiotics, aseptic technique, and IV and blood transfusion therapy markedly improved the outcome of any type of surgery.
One can argue that abortion being illegal actually made it safer.
My brother, a former police officer, told me how an overcautious driver arouses a police officer's suspicion. After all, if you have stolen items, drugs, or a dead body in your trunk, the last thing you want is any attention from law enforcement. So good sense dictates you will be extremely cautious, probably the safest person to be on the road with.
Illegal abortionists had to be extremely cautious as well and apparently were if the decreasing death rate was any indication.Posted by: Mary at February 18, 2010 10:37 AM
Artemis 2/17/10 at 5:45 p.m.
"The ADL, which represents a large number of American Jews, does not appreciate equating abortion with the holocaust"
Question: Are comparisons between the Nazi holocaust and abortion offensive?
Never again. Go Stephanie & CBR!Posted by: klynn73 at February 18, 2010 10:45 AM
"And their repression won't be confined to trying to stop abortion. Once women lose the right to choose abortion, it will be a slippery slope to taking more and more of our freedoms away."
Robert, as a woman, I take offense to you telling me what "freedoms" I do and don't want or need. So many poor people do not want abortion, especially in third world countries--they want better health care and food for all of their children, born and unborn. I personally want the freedom to choose medical professionals who value the rights and lives of my children, born and unborn. But that's not a freedom you support.
"Yes, the Nazis DID make abortion illegal in Germany. They wanted 'aryan' women to have as many aryan babies as posssible."
Yup--illegal for Aryans and very legal, accessible, and encouraged for others.
"And the way you describe abortion as 'bloody, gory dismemberment and torture' is just plain ridiculous. I happen to know that that is not what abortion is like at all, since the vast majority of abortions take place before a fetus can even feel pain, and late term abortions aren't just done for women's convenience.
Your description of abortion is so hysterically exaggerated and over the top as to be beyond belief."
As you were never a woman, you scarcely can comment on the women's side, and you clearly lack the skills of empathy and compassion necessary to look at the situation from the view of the fetus.
Birth is messy and bloody. I had a miscarriage at only 3 weeks, and that was certainly bloody. And painful. And tortuous. Men can't take pain like women can, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt when we are in pain. Claiming that abortion is not bloody or messy or painful lessens your credibility.
"And for your information, the horrible photos anti-choicers claim represent abortion are in fact doctored photos of miscarried and still-born fetuses. The whole thing is a complete fraud."
First of all, no, and there's documentation to prove it. Secondly, if the point is that the unborn child looks like just that--a child--how is it important how the child died? Do you think 3-D ultrasound pictures that clearly show babies are doctored too?
"No, I'm not an idiot and the description of abortions is highly exaggerated. In the vast majority of legal abortions, there is absolutely no physical harm to a woman."
Again, I had a miscarriage at only 3 weeks--long before most abortions (at least surgical abortions) are performed. It was very painful--nothing like a normal period. I have also given birth to two full-term children. If the natural ending of a three-week pregnancy is so painful, how can you expect me to believe that the unnatural ending of an 8-week pregnancy by use of surgical instruments is not?
"But if abortion does become illegal again in America, things will be far,far bloodier for women, and many will die from botched illegal or self-induced abortions, the way they do in countries all over the world which do not allow abortion.If you think things are bad now....
This nation cannot afford to go back to the bad old days. It will be absolutely barbaric."
And you accuse us of exaggeration? What about your own Dr. Carhart, who claims that "back-alley" abortionists did a great job? He probably won't be stopped by the law (not that he is now).
"And the government will not be able to enforce the law no matter how hard it tries.Aborttion will not only not cease but will increase, as it invariably does when it is made illegal."
Prove this. It makes no sense.
"You call yourselves 'pro-life'. You're not.You're anti-choice and anti-abortion.And you dead wrong. If people like you get your way you will cause a catastrophe for America and many,many poor women."
Well, you are clearly anti-choice on having many children, on paying taxes, and probably other things as well. I'm fairly pro-choice in general with decisions that don't affect non-consenting parties. Are you pro-choice on rape? And yes, I'm anti-abortion. Why do pro-child-dismemberment people think that's an insult?
A child is not a catastrophe.
"You want the impossible.... You are completely out of touvch with reality."
Translation: Robert thinks we are all incapable of self-control.
"Where is 'freedom' when the government tries to interfere with women's private matters? And then there's the slippery slope to even more government prying into our bedrooms.
With freedom like this, who needs tyranny?"
But you support population control. And if this is a women's matter, why are you so adamant about it? Why come here and argue with women who say "No, abortion is wrong for women, we do not want it"? So that you can keep using women without worrying about child support?Posted by: ycw at February 19, 2010 11:51 AM
My husband is a Jew, and he said to me "I don't understand how any Jew could support abortion."Posted by: heather at February 20, 2010 9:05 AM
No, I don't support population control, and don't want the government to interfere with how many children people have, and it's ludicrous to compare abortion with rape. You anti-choicers re always making false and unfir comparisons with abortion and murder,rape and other heinouw crimes,and comparing abortion with slavery,making it sound as though being pro-choice were as morally reprehensible as being pro-slavery is totally didingenuous and extrememly offensive to pro-choice people.
And yes, it's a fact.In every case where a government has made abotion illegal after it had been legal, the abortion rate has increased greatly,not decreased, and this has never stopped it altogether.
And yes, having a child can often be catstrophic to both the mother,the family and the child if it is born into abject poverty.
If the child is born into a stable environment with parents who have the means to take good care of it, that's different.
Proi-choicers like me have no problem with children being born into favorable circumstances, but the opposite IS catastrophic,not only for the children and their families, but society in general in the long run.
Adoption just isn't a realistic solution to the abortion problem. Ir works in some cases, but it's totally unrealistic to expect all unwanted children to be adopted.
WE already have an enormous number of children waiting to be adopted.
Given that the pro-choice movement spends a good 25% percent of its time coming with new spins on old ad hominem attacks about pro-lifers, and given that your own sentence that ends with "offensive to pro-choice people" starts off with "You anti-choicers," I'm gonna have to say, "Pot, this is kettle. You're both black!" In fact, given the arguments that the pro-life philosophy rapes and enslaves mothers with unplanned pregancies that I've seen on this very blog, I'm further going to say, "You can dish it out, but you sure can't take it."
Second, you say that in every case where abortion has been banned, abortion rates have gone up and not down. I have two responses to this. One, as a woman, this is highly offensive to me. You must think women just love breaking the law if you're so convinced we're going to do it in record numbers in direct response to something becoming illegal. You are accusing women, everywhere, of being outlaws and criminals in waiting, and that's absolutely ridiculous. Second, prove it. Sources, or it didn't happen. Show me the money. Produce evidence. Demonstrate substance to your claim, or stop making it.
Now, as to your comments about children being born poor, again, I'm offended. I'm poor. I know lots of other people who are poor. There are poor persons around the globe, and you know what most of us would do if our lives were threatened? We'd try not to die! Being alive and poor is preferable to being dead and not-poor. And then you say this: "Proi-choicers like me have no problem with children being born into favorable circumstances, but the opposite IS catastrophic,not only for the children and their families, but society in general in the long run." [sic] Seriously? Poor people have the audacity to exist and this is a society-wide catastrophe?!? That has to be one of the most arrogant, snobbish, eugenicist, elitest, classist, and sexist--since women tend to make less money than men working the same jobs, and since women are more likely to be poor--statements that I have ever heard anyone say.
Last, you make two assertions about adoption. One, you claim that since it doesn't work for everyone, it's not a good option for abortion. Two you claim that since there's so many children in foster care, we can't add more to that. To the first I say, it might not work for everybody, but it works for most. And even if it didn't, that does not justify killing off children. You've made virtually the same argument about poor people. "They're a burden on society. If we kill them, they won't be anymore!" Do you even read your own writing? Do you really understand what you're saying? To the second, many pro-lifers agree that the US foster care system is in a very problematic tangle. However, we don't control the government, and are therefore not in a position to fix it ourselves. Rather than trying to untangle that Gordian Knot, many pro-lifers have elected to sever it and have created their own adoption agencies. These are usually privately owned charities when boiled down to their base elements, and they are very good at placing children. If I recall correctly, the one that two of my churchmembers head up is placing 15-20 kids a month.
Bottom line: every child is a wanted child.Posted by: Keli Hu at February 21, 2010 3:51 PM
It is really sad to think that so called "learned" people cannot see the correlation. Just as in the case with the holocaust, so many are asleeep behind the wheel.Posted by: why does abortion go on? at February 22, 2010 9:46 AM
Mary, Obama's narcissism may be his downfall. He can't conceive or even fathom a decision that is made on principle.
Ex-GOP Voter at 7:50p.m, I actually think Nelson was mismatched and got sucked into a deal he obviously had no clue what he was doing. It is proven by the fact that he is even losing the bribe he took for voting the way he did. But some people hold their principles in higher regard than their party. Stupak and the blue dog Democrats may stick to their guns; and insist on language barring government subsidized infanticide as part of health care reform. Obama's vision of Planned Parenthood clinics carrying out government funded abortions in every town may not be the only reason to vote against this bill, but it is good enough reason for Stupak and a great majority of the citizens of the USA.Posted by: truthseeker at February 22, 2010 11:51 PM