HIV/AIDS strategy "misplaced"

aids pandemic.jpgA June 8 article in The Independent is refreshingly politically incorrectly honest. A few good points from it:

1. The strategy by homosexuals and liberals to portray HIV/AIDS as an affliction on the general population has been proven wrong.

2. Abstinence and fidelity teaching prevent HIV/AIDS, a disease mostly of those engaging in high risk sexual behavior.

3. Circumcision works....

On the latter point, I was coincidentally reading Acts 7:8 earlier ("Then he [God] gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. And Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him eight days after his birth.") and thinking to myself that the anti-circumcision culture would ultimately be proven wrong in ways I do not know, just because I know God is always right. And then I read the aforementioned article:

Threat of world Aids pandemic among heterosexuals is over, report admits

A quarter of a century after the outbreak of Aids, the World Health Organisation (WHO) has accepted that the threat of a global heterosexual pandemic has disappeared.

In the first official admission that the universal prevention strategy promoted by the major Aids organisations may have been misdirected, Kevin de Cock, the head of the WHO's department of HIV/Aids said there will be no generalised epidemic of Aids in the heterosexual population outside Africa....

HIV AIDS 2.jpg

Whereas once it was seen as a risk to populations everywhere, it was now recognised that, outside sub-Saharan Africa, it was confined to high-risk groups including men who have sex with men, injecting drug users, and sex workers and their clients.

Aids still kills more adults than all wars and conflicts combined, and is vastly bigger than current efforts to address it....

Aids organisations, including the WHO, UN Aids and the Global Fund, have come under attack for inflating estimates of the number of people infected, diverting funds from other health needs such as malaria, spending it on the wrong measures such as abstinence programmes rather than condoms, and failing to build up health systems.

Dr De Cock labelled these the "four malignant arguments" undermining support for the global campaign against Aids....

Critics of the global Aids strategy complain that vast sums are being spent educating people about the disease who are not at risk, when a far bigger impact could be achieved by targeting high-risk groups and focusing on interventions known to work, such as circumcision, which cuts the risk of infection by 60 per cent, and reducing the number of sexual partners....

One of the danger areas for the Aids strategy was among men who had sex with men. He said: " We face a bit of a crisis [in this area]. In the industrialised world transmission of HIV among men who have sex with men is not declining and in some places has increased.

"In the developing world, it has been neglected.... It is astonishing how badly we have done with men who have sex with men...."

The biggest puzzle was what had caused heterosexual spread of the disease in sub-Saharan Africa - with infection rates exceeding 40 per cent of adults in Swaziland, the worst-affected country - but nowhere else.

"It is the question we are asked most often - why is the situation so bad in sub-Saharan Africa? It is a combination of factors - more commercial sex workers, more ulcerative sexually transmitted diseases, a young population and concurrent sexual partnerships."...

Low rates of circumcision, which is protective, and high rates of genital herpes, which causes ulcers on the genitals through which the virus can enter the body, also contributed to Africa's heterosexual epidemic....

"The impact of HIV is so heterogeneous. In the US , the rate of infection among men in Washington DC is well over 100 times higher than in North Dakota, the region with the lowest rate. That is in one country. How do you explain such differences?"

Oh, come on. After making such great points, he closes with that? Compare the rates of homosexuality, needle use, and sex trafficking between DC and ND.

[HT: NoRoomForContraception; link to UNESCO lesson plan here]


Comments:

Jill said: "On the latter point, I was coincidentally reading Acts 7:8 earlier ("Then he [God] gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. And Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him eight days after his birth.") and thinking to myself that the anti-circumcision culture would ultimately be proven wrong in ways I do not know, just because I know God is always right.

Notwithstanding what is, as far as I can tell, indisputable epidemiological evidence that circumcision helps reduce the likelihood that a man will get AIDS, it should be noted, per Acts 15, that the Apostles were also part of the "anti-circumcision culture" as well. (Interestingly, this question of whether male Gentile converts to Christianity had to be circumcised was the first major dilemma the early Church hierarchy, led by Peter, had to address.)

Since then, for Christians, circumcision has been on the Negotiables List (and most definitely *not* on the Non-Negotiables List).

It should also be noted that even here in the U.S., where circumcision has traditionally been quite common relative to most of the rest of the world, there are growing numbers of parents who, for various reasons, are opposed to having our sons circumcised.

Posted by: John Jansen at June 9, 2008 3:26 PM


Perhaps the best way to avoid AIDS is to convert to Islam.

Christian countries in Africa have 10x to 1000x more HIV cases per capita than Muslim countries.
http://www.martinrothonline.com/MRCC11.htm

Posted by: Laura at June 9, 2008 3:41 PM


3. Circumcision works.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That makes no sense.
The transmission of HIV from males to females relies on semen as transmission medium, not smegma.

Posted by: Laura at June 9, 2008 3:45 PM


Jill:

The Word of God endures forever no matter what any Liberal or pro-abort tries to do or say. In the end, we Christians win. Let's get the message out for their sakes.

Our battle is not against flesh and blood (deceived pro-aborts and Libeals), but against the spiritual forces of darkness who, already being condemned to eternal hellfire, hate God and His children, and want to take as many with them as possible. Therein lies the choice which leads to either Life or Death. It's really that simple.

The more the Word is spoken, the more satan and his minions are weakened.

How is Life chosen? By accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and following Him.

I suggest you post a simple prayer of salvation for those who want to enter into a relationship with Jesus Christ. For Protestant pro-aborts urge them to simply confess to God their sin. For Catholics who are pro-aborts and have already confessed Christ in confirmation, urge them to go to their priest and make a confession or to talk to MK and Bobby Bambino, or Janet or any one of the Catholic saints on this site.

Peace.

Posted by: HisMan at June 9, 2008 3:55 PM


"Kevin de Cock, the head of the WHO's department of HIV/Aids"


:) I just had to laugh at this.

Posted by: Andy at June 9, 2008 4:34 PM


This article highlights the need for more conversation with the gay community (and the nonidentifying MSM group) around the world. A conversation we will never have if we insist on shaming them.

Random thought: I wonder why they chose to use "Aids" rather than the AP Stylebook-preferred AIDS. It just seems so utterly wrong, and so easily confused, particularly if used at the beginning of a sentence.

Of course, I should let go of some of those obsessive editorial tendencies. I got a job at a PR firm today. :)

Posted by: Edyt at June 9, 2008 4:50 PM


Congratulations, Edyt!!

What kind of conversation should we have with the gay community?

Posted by: Carla at June 9, 2008 4:53 PM


Luara:

A Christian country is not Christian simply because it isn't Muslim, or Buddhist or Hindu or whatever.

Based on your criteria you live in a Christian country. Are you a Christian or do you practice Christianity? Your jab is pointless.

I will say this. Uganda was a country that was not Christian and has become Christian from the top down. Why don't you look at and publish the before Christianity and after Christianity AIDS statistics of that country. Can you handle the truth?

Your hatred of everything Christian is everywhere to be found in your posts and it is very sickening. Remember this though, when you attack Christianity, you are attacking the Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God. Eventually you'll have to deal with Him, not any one of us.

Posted by: HisMan at June 9, 2008 5:19 PM


Please heed the warning in the Lesson Plan about "barbing saloons"- you will wake up with a horrible hangover and the worst haircut of your life.

Posted by: Bystander at June 9, 2008 5:28 PM


Laura, I have heard before about Muslim areas of Africa having lower AIDS rates, although they referred to tribal groups instead of nations.

Posted by: pro-life atheist at June 9, 2008 5:34 PM


I got a job at a PR firm today. :)

Posted by: Edyt at June 9, 2008 4:50 PM

Congrats! What will you be PR'ing, may I ask? Please don't say PP.
:(

Posted by: Janet at June 9, 2008 5:46 PM


Well done, Edyt :)

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at June 9, 2008 6:21 PM


Thanks guys. It's just a typical Chicago PR firm. We get clients who want publicity and journalists who want a story. Our job is to badger news outlets to give publicity to our clients. Being a journalist myself, I'm well aware that there's a sort of battle going on between the two, but fortunately I won't be in a position where I'll have to stand on a podium and shirk away from tough questions. (Journalists HATE that!!) While I feel slightly guilty for switching to the other side, I also realize there is a lot of money to be made in PR, and college loans to pay back, so... I'll probably just continue to freelance on the side. :)

Of course, the downside is that now that I'll have steady work, I'll be less likely to hang around here. :P

What kind of conversation should we have with the gay community?

Carla, that's a great question, and also a very complex one.

The problem in a lot of communities, particularly black and Latino, is that their lack of acceptance of gays has lead to what was indicated above - men who have sex with men. A lot of medical scientists realized that asking people if they were gay wasn't a sufficient question to combat STDs such as HIV, because there were married men, men in prison, men with girlfriends, men who identified as straight, who would occasionally (or often) sleep with other men.

The HIV epidemic is not just limited to risky sex, it's intertwined with other epidemics - depression, alcoholism, drug use, and partner violence.** Some of those problems come from childhood abuse (sometimes sexual - men who have sex with men but aren't gay often have had some childhood sexual abuse) and as a result, they often have riskier sex. I know I've heard some people suggesting that young people think they have some sort of "immunity," but from some of the stories I've written about HIV/AIDS, I'd say it's exactly the opposite. These people feel so down on themselves, they are practically inviting death in.

So the HIV/AIDS discussion shouldn't just address sex. It really needs to address all those issues, especially depression, which leads to risky sex.

Another problem is that the solutions we have don't necessarily address the right people. Right now, of the 129 effective prevention program for African Americans, only one targets MSM, while the rest are for heterosexuals. The programs also aren't up to date; for example, they don't mention hooking up on the Internet as a particular risk. Latino MSM, on the other hand, have no effective programs.

So I'd say the first thing we'd do, which has been totally ignored for some reason, is to START a conversation! I know a doctor from the CDC who said this: “We all know that over the last few years of the epidemic, even though we have such high infection rates in the black community, black media is loath to discuss HIV/AIDS. And it’s not just the black media; it’s the black church, it’s a general silence that’s happening in the community. And the silence is deafening.”

So that's first off. Starting the conversation. In black communities, in white communities, in Latino and Asian communities.

Second, if we were to start a discussion, is to be fully welcoming of sexual behaviors. Not necessarily accepting (certainly we don't want to say not using a condom is good!), but shunning people for their behavior is often what has led to this (and other) risky behavior. Of course, a MSM may not even be accepting of his own behavior.

But the conversation has got to start somewhere, and that's by accepting that a person may have engaged in an act he is not proud of, and may be spreading the consequences of that act and endangering his wife or girlfriend.

The conversation should include ideas like: getting tested, how to talk about sex and STDs with a new partner or spouse, where to go for medical treatment, who to talk to for psychological help (if necessary), and access to support groups.

Overall, the general message of the conversation should be that we as a people care about each other enough to want to make sure no one else is hurt by it. The gay community suffered for years before Reagan even acknowledged the existence of AIDS. And we've let our personal views on homosexuality hurt our medical advancements and kill more people. That needs to stop. We also need to take notice of how racism is affecting black and Latino homosexuals even more negatively than white homosexuals. (Those communities also tend to shun the GLBT persons more than the white community.)

Umm... that was very long-winded. Did I answer your question sufficiently or did I get too off-track?

**Please note: A lot of homosexuals are not victims of childhood sexual abuse, nor are they all alcoholics, spouse-beaters and drug users. Many of those behaviors come from a lack of community acceptance and other psychological issues, and can be just as prevalent in heterosexual relationships. Persons in the black/Latino communities have also reported higher incidences of racism and sexism than white people. The big difference here is engaging in risky sex, which could result from any number of factors.

Posted by: Edyt at June 9, 2008 7:11 PM


Very thought provoking, Edyt. Thank you.
I have a hard time believing that their are some in the gay community that do not know that they engage in very risky sexual behavior. They do know, don't they?
Not judging, just asking.(It's how I learn.)

Posted by: Carla at June 9, 2008 7:37 PM


Your hatred of everything Christian is everywhere to be found in your posts and it is very sickening. Remember this though, when you attack Christianity, you are attacking the Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God. Eventually you'll have to deal with Him, not any one of us.

Posted by: HisMan at June 9, 2008 5:19 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hon, you revealed yourself to everyone this week.

I know quite a number of Christians, and you AINT one of them.

Posted by: Laura at June 9, 2008 7:44 PM


Carla,

Of course they know HIV is a risk. But like pregnancy, some think they can't get it on their first time, or they think not using a condom once will be okay...

I interviewed a 19-year-old once for a documentary about AIDS, and it was so tragic. He was in a committed relationship, virgin until this partner, and his partner cheated on him, got HIV, and passed it on to him. I nearly started crying as he told his story. Not only did he have his heart broken, but the man he loved gave him HIV.

The same thing could happen to any number of people. Partner cheats, gets a disease, spreads it to the faithful partner, who wasn't using condoms because he or she thought they were in a committed relationship. I read something the other day about how 1/3 of married women have affairs and almost 2/3 of married men have affairs. Those people are engaging in risky sexual behavior and taking it back home, possibly to someone who didn't do anything risky at all, besides not use a condom. Would you insist on using a condom every time with your husband, just in case he was cheating on you? No, and neither would a lot of people. For some reason, trust, or love, you feel safe. Unfortunately, that's not always the case.

The reason HIV spreads faster in the gay community is because semen and blood are the most effective transmitters of the virus. Vaginal fluids and breast milk are less likely, but can also contain some trace of HIV. The media won't report this, because it's important that people take responsibility, but it is a fact that a man can spread the disease easier than a woman can.

Another people may be well aware they're being risky and just don't care if they get it. Those people are the real danger, because they're less likely to get tested, and less likely to tell their partner that they ARE positive. Those are the people who are facing serious psychological problems and as a result have become a danger to themselves and others.

I've also heard of a few cases where a person becomes angry because they are infected and seek to infect others. Hopefully, that's rare.

So... yeah, sex is risky for the heterosexual community too, especially when you take into consideration the number of affairs and closeted gay men.... Eh, it's just a huge problem. Throwing condoms at it isn't going to make it stop either, which is the scary part.

Posted by: Edyt at June 9, 2008 7:54 PM


And other people* ...

not another people. -.-

Posted by: Edyt at June 9, 2008 8:01 PM


"you are attacking the Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God. Eventually you'll have to deal with Him, not any one of us."

Get it Laura? The Prince of Peace is gonna kick your a**!

Posted by: Jess at June 9, 2008 8:03 PM


Get it Laura? The Prince of Peace is gonna kick your a**!

Posted by: Jess at June 9, 2008 8:03 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Really.

Radiating hatred and bigotry - not to mention broadcasting threats - in the name of Jesus doesn't make you a Christian.

Posted by: Laura at June 9, 2008 8:09 PM


"Radiating hatred and bigotry - not to mention broadcasting threats - in the name of Jesus doesn't make you a Christian."

Maybe someone should have told the Crusaders. And the leaders of the Spanish Inquisition.

Posted by: Jess at June 9, 2008 8:15 PM


Not hatred nor bigotry or even threats.

Truth.
We shall ALL stand in judgment one day before our Creator.


Hi again Edyt,
I can hardly imagine the pain of that young man. I agree that throwing condoms at anyone gay or not is hardly an effective way to solve anything.

Posted by: Carla at June 9, 2008 8:17 PM


Please, Jess,

Out of respect for those of us who adore the Prince of Peace, would you be kind enough not to make that sort of reference re:8:03pm.

Thanks.

Posted by: carder at June 9, 2008 8:27 PM


Sure, circumcision works, the same way that cutting your legs off will prevent you from stubbing your toes in the middle of the night.

What works better than mutilating a baby, of course, is not boffing everything that moves.

Posted by: bmmg39 at June 9, 2008 8:52 PM


Sorry Carder, I know Jesus loves everyone. It's just that it's seems like the height of irony when they talk about Jesus and revenge or what ever. See also, Westboro Baptist Church.

Posted by: Jess at June 9, 2008 8:56 PM


I saw a circumcision yesterday on youtube.com I was curious after watching "Europa Europa" (great movie by the way). I almost threw up.

But as long as you use it with respect, either way is fine.

Posted by: Jess at June 9, 2008 9:01 PM


Thanks for understanding, Jess.

I agree, we could use some humility here.

Posted by: carder at June 9, 2008 9:06 PM


"The more the Word is spoken, the more satan and his minions are weakened."

If we all prayed at once could we banish evil forever? Or at least awhile? You know, all that positive energy?

Posted by: Jess at June 9, 2008 9:13 PM


No, but you might be able to disprove the power of prayer.

Posted by: Edyt at June 9, 2008 9:14 PM


I believe in positive energy. We all have energy, and it cannot be created or destroyed. Let's all just think happy thoughts and start there.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5889/imgkittenbasket02ye9.jpg

Posted by: Jess at June 9, 2008 9:25 PM


Damn it, Jess. You knew the kitties would get to me! :)

Posted by: Edyt at June 9, 2008 9:40 PM


It begins > )

Posted by: Jess at June 9, 2008 9:55 PM


OK Laura:

Tell me just how the so-called Christians that you know act?

Posted by: HisMan at June 9, 2008 11:20 PM


Edyt, Prayer is powerful and changes things for the better for a lot of people. People who take the time to pray are the ones who will take the time to stop and help a needy person even though they are not obligated to.

Jess, if you want to banish evil at least for a while join your prayers with those of the Pope.
btw - Jesus brings peace to those who accept him and those who honor his Father in heaven. Those who reject God and his Word reject the peace of the Lamb of God. Unfortunately, people like Edyt who openly mock Jesus and slander God are rejecting the power of his saving grace and they will not escape judgement day.

Posted by: truthseeker at June 10, 2008 3:31 AM


Your hatred of everything Christian is everywhere to be found in your posts and it is very sickening. Remember this though, when you attack Christianity, you are attacking the Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God. Eventually you'll have to deal with Him, not any one of us.
Posted by: HisMan at June 9, 2008 5:19 PM

HisMan,
Laura and some of the others on this site who have rejected Jesus strike out against you because they understand that the Word condemns them. Rather than accepting the Word, they strike out at those such as you who profess the Word as the truth and say you are judgemental. As a Christian speaking about the coming judgement they accuse you of wishing evil upon them and taking joy in the lost souls. It is their attempt to deny the coming judgement of Jesus by attacking you as being the deliverer of his Word. It is sad but true that many die without ever finding the truth about the saving power of prayer and Jesus.

"This is how you are to pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven. Give us today our daily bread; and forgive us our debts, 9 as we forgive our debtors; and do not subject us to the final test, 10 but deliver us from the evil one."
Matthew 6:9-13

Posted by: truthseeker at June 10, 2008 3:50 AM


HisMan, you wrote: "In the end, we Christians win. "

I know people who have died of CF because their parents refused to avoid having CF babies because of their "Christian" opposition to abortion.

In the end, these sorts of Christians lose.

Posted by: SoMG at June 10, 2008 5:45 AM


CF meaning Cystic Fibrosis?
Christians that oppose abortion do not kill their children. No matter what their precious babe may be diagnosed with. Come what may, they let God decide the outcome.

Posted by: Carla at June 10, 2008 6:27 AM


Sure, circumcision works, the same way that cutting your legs off will prevent you from stubbing your toes in the middle of the night.

What works better than mutilating a baby, of course, is not boffing everything that moves.

I agree wholeheartedly, bmmg39. With basic access to hygiene resources and safe sex (not to mention no sex), circumcision is a pretty negligible factor.

Posted by: Alexandra at June 10, 2008 6:51 AM


Alexandra, you get mad props for using the word "boffing". I haven't heard that one in ages!

Also, Doug gets props for being the only person to say hello to me yesterday when I came back from my looong hiatus!

Posted by: Erin at June 10, 2008 9:57 AM


Erin,
Weren't you the one who said "yo yo yo!"? I would have said "hello" if I had known that's what you meant! Lol.

Posted by: Janet at June 10, 2008 10:21 AM


Hi Erin!

Welcome back!

Posted by: Janet at June 10, 2008 10:21 AM


SoMG said 5:45: HisMan, you wrote: "In the end, we Christians win. "

I know people who have died of CF because their parents refused to avoid having CF babies because of their "Christian" opposition to abortion.

In the end, these sorts of Christians lose.

SoMG, How do they lose in the end?

From Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem In Memoriam:27, 1850:

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

Posted by: Janet at June 10, 2008 10:25 AM


Hi Erin!! :) How is school and work going?

Posted by: Carla at June 10, 2008 10:26 AM


Hello Erin! How are you today?

Posted by: Jess at June 10, 2008 10:38 AM


Erin: Also, Doug gets props for being the only person to say hello to me yesterday when I came back from my looong hiatus!

You know I'm sweet on you.

Posted by: Doug at June 10, 2008 10:40 AM


Erin, weren't you the one who said "yo yo yo!"? I would have said "hello" if I had known that's what you meant! Lol.

Yo, Janet, go and watch the movie 'Rocky,' know what I mean, yo?

Posted by: Doug at June 10, 2008 10:43 AM


Heh, yes, sorry, I forgot my slang is all...fresh.

School and work is tedious but going well. I'm still trying to get my laptop fixed, I miss her dreadfully :-(

Posted by: Erin at June 10, 2008 10:46 AM


Oh...and just because I HAVE to shake things up a little...

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/dn14094-bacteria-make-major-evolutionary-shift-in-the-lab.html?feedId=online-news_rss20

Scientists just observed a major evolutionary shift. Cool, right?

Posted by: Erin at June 10, 2008 11:02 AM


I know people who have died of CF because their parents refused to avoid having CF babies because of their "Christian" opposition to abortion.
In the end, these sorts of Christians lose.
Posted by: SoMG at June 10, 2008 5:45 AM

SoMG, If they had to maske a choice between living or saving the lives of their child, Christians parents would gladly offer their own lives to save the lives of their children. The "winning" outcome sometimes means making th eultimate sacrifice of giving your life for a friend.

"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."
John 15:13

Posted by: truthseeker at June 10, 2008 11:36 PM


Yo bak atcha

Posted by: truthseeker at June 10, 2008 11:38 PM


@Erin: That's an *awesome* article. I love bacteria. :)

Posted by: Rae at June 11, 2008 7:10 AM


Hi Erin,

"Scientists just observed a major evolutionary shift. Cool, right?"

Does that mean my great, great, etc etc grandpa wasn't a fish? Silly stuff there, they still can't explain what we "evolved" from.

Posted by: Jasper at June 11, 2008 8:22 AM


SoMG: "I know people who have died of CF because their parents refused to avoid having CF babies because of their 'Christian' opposition to abortion."

So...you support killing the baby so that the baby doesn't die later on? Uh, brilliant.

Erin: "Alexandra, you get mad props for using the word 'boffing'. I haven't heard that one in ages!"

Yo, yo, Alex: the mad props belong to ME. Page up, dOOd.

Posted by: bmmg39 at June 11, 2008 2:23 PM


Or...Erin, page up. Heck, Y'ALL can page up, for all I care. Not boffing everyone in sight is a better way to reduce HIV transmission than mutilating the genitals of newborns. Ya heard it here first.

Posted by: bmmg39 at June 11, 2008 2:30 PM


BMMG: Or...Erin, page up. Heck, Y'ALL can page up, for all I care.

Yeah, could be. But let's look at the real world, whether we're so totally paralyzed by fear of being "politically incorrect" in the first place.

Dah pretty ladies around the world
Got a weird thing to show you,
So tell all the boys and girls.
Tell your brother, your sister
And mama too, cause they’re
About to go down
And you’ll know just what to do.

Wave your hands in the air
Like you don’t care, glide by
The People as they start to look and stare.
Do you dance, do your dance quick
Mama, come on baby, tell me what’s
The Word, ah – word up, Everybody say when you hear the call
You got to get it underway,
Word up, it’s the code word,
No matter where you say it,
You’ll know that you’ll be heard.

Now all you sucker. D.J.’s
Who think you’re fly
There’s got to be a reason
And we know the reason why.
And act real cool
But you got to realise
That you’re acting like fools.
If there’s music we can use it
We need to dance.
We don’t have that time
For psychological romance
No romance
No romance
No romance for me mama
Come on baby tell me what’s the word.
Ah – word up,
Everybody say when you hear the call
You got to get it underway.

Dial “L” for low...
Come on, all you people say...
Word up – word up

Posted by: Doug at June 11, 2008 6:51 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_7Kp_TapA4

Word up.

Posted by: Doug at June 11, 2008 6:55 PM


Contrast that with the only way to make it better, as best done by the immortal KORN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q-k-uN73Gk

Posted by: Doug at June 11, 2008 6:57 PM


and thinking to myself that the anti-circumcision culture would ultimately be proven wrong in ways I do not know, just because I know God is always right.

So Jill, are you saying that God wants us to be circumcized because then we can engage in homosexual sex 60% safer?

I think there's something wrong with your logic.

Posted by: Tony at June 12, 2008 12:36 PM


Jill, you're sort of doing with the circumcision issue what others do with the "gender differences" issue: you're arguing that, "Well, this is simply God's plan or the way God made us," and thereby turning what was a completely secular discussion into a religious debate. I dislike the idea of circumcision because it mutilates baby boys; there's no animosity towards Jews or Christians in my position.

Posted by: bmmg39 at June 13, 2008 1:49 PM