Immigration Debate Shakes US To The Core

Apr 30 08:51 AM US/Eastern

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.6e6b338d2625c3ba01797b878d0018e9.41&show_article=1

A group of Latino members in the New York state assembly is even planning to go and chain themselves to the US-Mexico border fence.

"We're willing to risk ourselves for the people of Arizona and other immigrants across the country," local lawmaker Felix Ortiz told Cityhallnews.com.

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What risk?

Snake bite, heat exhaustion or sun burn?

If Felix Ortiz and his compadres really want to demonstrate their machismo they should enter Mexico illegally and begin marching thru the streets of El Paso demanding equal rights with Mexican citizens.

When the Mexican authorities demand to see their passports, visas, and ID they should scream 'discrimination' and see how that works for them.

When the Mexican government finally gets around to deporting them, we should ask them about the accomodations, cuisine and conversation in the Mexican prison where they were incarcerated for violating Mexican law.

6 Out of 10 migrant Women Raped In Mexico, activists say
By TIM JOHNSON
McCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS
April 28, 2010, 8:41PM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6980699.html

MEXICO CITY — As many as six out of every 10 Central American women and girls are raped as they pass through Mexico hoping to cross illegally into the United States, Amnesty International said Wednesday.

The rapists include criminal gang members as well as local authorities in collusion with them, said Rupert Knox, an Amnesty International researcher on Mexico.

Last year, Mexican immigration authorities detained 64,061 migrants, about a fifth of them women or girls, the report says.

Migrants fear that if they report assaults, abductions or rapes, they'll be deported to their home countries, it said.

---------------------------------------------------

My goodness Mexico actually enforces it's imigration laws, even against Spanish speaking Latinos/Latinas.

I wonder how Mexican law enforcement officials determine who is in the country legally and who is there illegally?

The Arizona one is an interesting one...I don't agree with how far the law goes. On the flip side, I think it is good that states are doing something because the federal government has gone so long without doing something - so at least this forces their hand to action.

A few years ago a deputy sheriff in a county near Austin, Texas noticed a car that had been parked in rest stop for several hours in the wee hours of the morning.

The deputy knocked on the drivers side window and when the driver opened the window it was Willy Nelson.

The deputy searced Willy's car and lo and behold he found some wacky tabacky (marijuana). The deputy cited Willy for possession of a controlled substance.

The case was dismissed because the presiding judge ruled the deputy did not have probable cause to search Willy's car.

Willy Nelson is probable cause.

'youtube.com/watch?v=wDQANmQO2g0'

I will leave it your fertile imaginations to make the connection between Willy and illegal aliens and probable cause.

I will leave it your fertile imaginations to make the connection between Willy and illegal aliens and probable cause.

Even my fertile imagination can't seem to make a connection between illegal aliens and abortion.....

Hey Lala Alcatraz:

I'm an Arizonan. I have a good mind to sue you for slander.

Hey, have you ever visited an Arizona family that was completely devastated by a car accident caused by an illegal alien who had no insurance?

Oh, and this very minor point. Did you ever see 15 or 20 bodies laying dead on the highway after a singe vehicle accident? No? Oh, it was a pickup truck with camper stuffed with illegal aliens, who had paid thousands of dollars to come here illegally via those despicable "coyotes". Where's you outrage you hypocrite?

And how about all the illegal immigrant girls who are used for sex and the Mexicans who sell them? Perhaps you've partaken?

Your outrage should be against Mexico and the 100 or so families that control all the wealth there not a state that has been financially devastated by the tens of thousands of illegal aliens who bought homes here in Arizona without so much as a SS number, watch them double in value, refinanced them and then took the money and ran to Mexico to retire? Where's your phony ire?

Stick to the facts.

EGV,

What is is your concern about this law? Sounds like a darn good one to me and long overdue.

Of course the Democrats and liberals aren't thrilled. They will need their votes to stay in power.

Hi Phil,

A couple of illegals in my city grabbed a woman off the street, raped, then set her on fire in an attempt to kill her. The woman survived, physically and emotionally scarred. Though not American citizens and illegally in this country, they were given all the benefits of an American citizen, even translators. While this woman struggles to rebuild her life these dirtballs will live comfortably in prison.
We have enough of our own dirtballs without someone else's.

Phil,

Wasn't a Mexican-American child snatched from his home by home invaders and found later abandoned on a street in Mexico? The family, law abiding American citizens had no connection to crime and it was thought to be a case of mistaken identity.
Isn't there a kidnapping epidemic in Phoenix? How many victims are American citizens of Mexican origin. Oh, and wasn't a Mexican American border guard shot execution style by drug runners?

Do these people, who live in safetly and comfort, ever have much concern for the Mexican American victims instead of the illegals.

Mary -

First off, hope all is going well.

Here's my concern. I have lunch from time to time with folks from India that are here legally in the US. The thought that somebody could come to us while we're walking on the street and ask for ID - that just seems very anti-American to me.

I mean, I'm up in prime hunting territory - I think a very similar law would be to allow cops to pull over anyone in a pick-up truck to check for guns and registration.

I do hope that this gets more debate going so that federally, something gets done. I doubt this law will stick in the courts anyways, but hopefully will prompt something to get done.

Ex-GOP,
This may sound harsh, but this isn't a "feel good" issue. There is nothing anti-American about enforcing laws. Mexico has their own way of enforcing illegal immigration. (See Malkin's articles below.) The US will do a much better job in a much more ethical way. God bless Gov. Brewer- AZ for finally doing something.

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/04/28/police-state-how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens/

I had to go back to Go Comics' site to figure out the Alcaraz cartoon. It's a Nazi reference according to commenters there...
didn't see that coming. It makes no sense. No one will be sending Mexicans to the death chambers. There are legal Mexican-Americans speaking in favor of some type of reform so these cries of racism or unfounded. Could we stop using the race card any time we have a disagreement?

It's a reference to the fact that the Jews were forced to wear a yellow star to identify them in public. I think the biggest fear is that people who are here legally, even born here, with generations of family here, will be detained for traveling without papers. I would be scared some policeman would abuse the system and just be checking people on the streets.

I'm all for getting the illegal aliens out, but not at the expense of law abiding American citizens.

Sara,
Every day law-abiding American citizens are "inconvenienced" by laws that are created to ensure the well-being/safety of society.
A free society demands certain laws.

RINO,

Unless you or your East Indian associates (if they even exist) are jay walking or urinating in public or doing something else illegal to bring them to the attention of Arizona law enforcement they you do have to be concerned with being asked by a police officer to produce a 'state' issued ID.

[Most 'legal immigrants' are in favor of enforcing our existing immigration laws. They are angry that the law whith which they were required to comply does not seem to apply to the tens of millions of people who chose to flaut it. Some of them should file a class action lawsuit using the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution.]

The assumption of liberal/progressives is that the cops in Arizona are going to turn into a bunch of Bull Connors overnite.

My assumption would be that the ethnic makeup of the Arizona law enforcement community pretty well reflects the ethnic composition of the Arizona population as a whole.

So what the progressive/liberals are contending is that cops in Arizona are going to turn on their fellow citizens, many of whom share the same ethnicity as the cops, and demand to see the 'papers' of any non-caucasian whom they might happen to encounter.

I happen to believe that vast majority of cops are basically good people who have taken an oath to uphold the United States Constititution (and unlike liberal/progressives, take it seriously) and to protect and serve the citizens of the particular state in which they live.

Sorry for all the posts, but here's a very good OP-ED piece by Kris Kobach who helped draft the statute.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html

Janet - how about this then - to avoid racial profiling while enforcing this, lets put random road blocks on roads across the country and ask for documentation of everyone who comes through - every state - then we'll be fine, right?

Nothing like a little Sunday humor, thanks for sharing.

Ex-GOP,
Hardly. The scenario you propose would be an equal-opportunity inconvenience but as I said before, sometimes inconvenience is necessary. Don't misunderstand, I'm not advocating road blocks across the country to enforce immigration laws, but they can be an effective way of deterring illegal activity. For example, in my city, several times a year, law enforcement will set up road blocks at certain intersections and check the occupants of EVERY car for evidence of drunk driving. They announce it advance so there's no excuse for those who are caught. Do you object?

"The thought that somebody could come to us while we're walking on the street and ask for ID - that just seems very anti-American to me."

Unless they're committing a crime, they have nothing to worry about.

Hi EGV and Sara

I'm fine thanks EGV and I hope all is well with you.
The ARizona law specifically forbids profiling and randomly checking the ID of citizens. It must be a legitimate police action, such as a traffic stop, commission of a crime, etc. for IDs to be checked.

Unless police want to face reprimand, pay loss, job loss, or legal action, its unlikely profiling will be commonplace.

BTW, are we not all ID'd every time police stop us, have reason to question us because of suspicious activity, when we go to the airport, use a credit card, or cash a check? My bank won't do business unless I present my ID, and I've been a customer 33 years.

We've waited for the federal gov't and look where its gotten us. Citizens terrorized in their homes and children kidnapped, not to mention the rape victim set on fire.

I have absolutely NO issue with people here legally, what ever their race, religion, or ethnicity. I have every issue with people here illegally, whatever their race, religion, or ethnicity.

law enforcement will set up road blocks at certain intersections and check the occupants of EVERY car for evidence of drunk driving. They announce it advance so there's no excuse for those who are caught. Do you object?

Posted by: Janet at May 2, 2010 3:34 PM

"Evidence of drunk driving" is different from "evidence" of citizenship. You are either over the limit or not. What happens when some American senior citizens, who don't have licenses or any ID's (see nuns in Indiana being hassled about voting), are being transported to the senior center and the driver, an illegal, gets stopped for running a red light? Do they get detained while ICE is contacted? What happens when a Hispanic American man, whose wife is in need of vital medication, forgets his drivers license in his haste to get to the pharmacy? He gets detained. His wife doesn't get the vital meds. How bout an American Hispanic teenager who does't have his license yet and he gets stopped for loitering? The need for "papers" speaks to a national ID card. I thought that you conservatives didn't like that kind of "socialist" intrusion - not to mention that some fundies say it's the mark of the devil. Good thing we don't have profiling up here. Given the number of illegal Irish, there would be lots of us "detained" if we didn't have our papers.

Seth Myers, on SNL, said it best about the Arizona law - it's a "dry fascism" LOL! There was also an old Cheech Marin movie about this, too....

And BTW, if you're an Arizona resident and you're taking your legal cleaning lady home and she sees a friend who needs a ride, don't pick that person up. If they're illegal, your car can be impounded. But here's the thing, if right wingers like Tom Tancredo, Rick Perry, and Karl Rove have a problem with this law, then something's not right.

Artemis,
I think the issues you bring up have already been addressed in one way or another by my myself and others, and in the links provided. I don't know what more can be said.

Artemis, nothing would happen to anyone in any of the situations you posed that would be in any way different than if it happened to a non-hispanic.

All the law does is fix the horrible system in which illegal immigrants now have a license to do whatever the hell they want (as long as it's not a felony) and drive away. Get hit by an illegal immigrant in Austin? The cops will make you change his flat tire and send him on his way without so much as a ticket.

Legal American citizens already have to "show our papers" any time we get a citation.

Mary (4:37):

You are correct. The legislation was crafted with the purpose of avoiding profiling. The law was passed only after exhaustive and unsuccessful attempts to get the feds to actually enforce federal statutes.

Naturally, the MSM has been putting forth their agitprop on the side of stirring up resentments and furthering their own agendas. Contributors to this blog who only read or watch MSM are simply parroting the misinformation they consumed. Garbage in, garbage out.

The very convenient thing the MSM has going for themselves is that they do not have to actually report the truth. The Lalo Alcarez editorial cartoon is a case in point. This is just what we expect from leftist and MSM sources. The same MSM will ignore the fact that the great union leader--Cesar Chavez-- of the United Farm Workers, an organization that I as a long time union member have supported for many years, was himself an ardent opponent of illegal immigration. Those who support strong immigration laws are no more racist than was Chavez. He understood the basics of supply and demand. If you have too many laborers willing to fill too few jobs, the few improvements he was able to secure for his union members would soon be lost.

It is unconscionable for political leaders to look the other way while millions of citizens are unemployed even as jobs are being filled/held by undocumented non-citizens.

Phil, maybe you can answer a question your Governor couldn't. What does an illegal immigrant look like?

I'm all in favor of tightening up the boarder and imposing harsh penalties on employers who hire illegals, but asking police officers to stop someone when they have a reasonable suspicion they're illegal is over the line. There are illegal Canadians in this country too, but they look a lot like "us." However, once you realize that there a lot of Mexican-American citizens in this country, you realize that a lot of the illegal Mexican immigrants look a lot like "us" too. that's the problem. The law is unconstitutional and the courts will so rule. You heard it here first.

Yes, there's a million stories.

Ex-GOP: "The thought that somebody could come to us while we're walking on the street and ask for ID - that just seems very anti-American to me."

...good thing that's not what's in the new law, then. They won't be approaching people who are just walking up the street or "taking their kids to get ice cream," as President Obama said. You have to have committed another crime. So if you're HOLDING UP the ice-cream parlor, they might bother you. If you're not, no worries.

Legal American citizens already have to "show our papers" any time we get a citation.
Posted by: Lauren at May 2, 2010 5:34 PM

Sure, but how about just walking down the street?

bmmg39 - "committed" another crime, or just under suspicion? Two different things entirely.

Janet - I certainly don't object to the scenario you've given. What I object to is seeing a car with Latino men in it and deciding to pull it over and check, well, because they are Latino men.

Because people say that the cops can't profile, but citizens can sue the cops under this law if they don't think the cops are doing enough.

Nice work by the GOP on this one though - shift the focus off of health care - and pi** off a fast growing population of voters for a law that doesn't stand a chance of surviving the courts (at least in its totality).

U of Arizona is losing some out of state students - University President:

"We have already begun to feel an impact from SB1070. The families of a number of out-of-state students (to date all of them honors students) have told us that they are changing their plans and will be sending their children to universities in other states. This should sadden anyone who cares about attracting the best and brightest students to Arizona."

Freedom at its best - pass laws you want and deal with the consequences.

Again Hal, toting the water (or should I say kool-aid) for Obama just doesn't cut it.

Besides, it will soon be found out that Obama is not a natural born citizen. His just released Occidental transcripts show he applied for tuition as a foreign born student. I can see why he could care less about about securing our borders, he wants to steal our country and is doing a very good job at it.

It's not racial profiling, read the bill. Besides, it not Mexicans we're talking about it's the porous border. Anyone from any country from the world can get in friend or foe. It just so happens that here in Arizona, many of the illegals stay and overload our schools, emergency rooms and prisons and get no reimbursement from the Feds.

I look like a Mexican, Jordanian, Iranian, etc. If some police officer stops me for speeding and in the course of trying to establish who I am determines that I'm an illegal alien, what in the heck is wrong with that? It's called "law".

Did you know that 1,000 illegals cross the border just in Arizona every day and 4,000 nationwide? If just 1/10 of 1% or 4 of these people are terrorists from the Middle East and they have been crossing since 9/11/2001 that means that about 12,000 terrorists are in this country just waiting to pounce on us via a nuke, a dirty bomb or a biological weapon or who knows what else. It only took 18 terrorists to carry out the destruction of the WTC Towers.

It's OK Hal, I know you reject the notion that our country is being readied for judgment and destruction.

At least I can sleep at night knowing I did my best to try to stop abortion and secure our national sovereignty.

You know very well Hal that all this stuff is not about caring for illegal immigrants it's about buying their votes. It's the Democrat way. They are all thieves. They steal from the unborn, they steal from the US citizen. Or didn't you know Hal that our current Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano was a rabid pro-abort governor and wanted to provide illegal aliens with drivers' licenses here in Arizona (so they could vote) and now she's the wolf guarding the hen house. Judgment my friend, judgment.

But you knew all this.

Oh Phil - I think it would be wise of you to learn about Snopes - or maybe Urban Legends. Or maybe just how to google. The Occidental email spoof dates back about a year now - debunked in April of 2009 by Snopes - Urban Legends reported it in September.

The problem is, when you have a posting with something so outrageous (like somebody who denies the holocaust or somebody who says that pets should have the same rights as humans), well, it sort of taints the rest of the posting.

Come on Phil - jump off the crazy train for a few minutes and enjoy life with the rest of us.

Hal "Sure, but how about just walking down the street?
"

If we're j-walking. Which is exactly the same measure that will be used in Arizona. The ruling only applies to situations in which a crime is being committed.

EGV:

That's a good thing. The less Liberals, the better in an already Lib infested area of the state, Tucson.

Another minor point Hal:

If you can prove the police used racial profiling to stop you, guess what, there's specific language in the bill that says you can sue the government.

If Dems would only learn to use the truth.

Despicable.

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THISSTATE **WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES**, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,..."

Oh Phil, I have read the law. And the law allows asking for papers of anyone who looks like a Mexican, or Canadian, or Englishman if "reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States." That's the part of the law that goes too far. There is no such thing as "reasonable suspicion that a person is unlawfully in the United States." Is it reasonable to conclude that someone speaking German is an illegal immigrant? How about speaking Spanish? What would you tell a police officer to look for?

And Phil, I've seen the video of you on your website. You don't look like a "Mexican, Jordanian, Iranian" to me. And, by the way, do you carry proof of US Citizenship around with you?

You anti-government teabaggers sure don't mind a big powerful government messing with the other guy now and then, do you?

Hal, I suggest you read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html

Your take on 'reasonable suspicion' is just plain wrong.

And btw, government is there to enforce security and uphold the rule of law. Which is a good thing. But going beyond this - like killing the unborn - is a bad thing. Also, using the term "anti-government teabaggers" tells us all we need to know about you.

Misrepresentation and name-calling. Grow up.

6 Out of 10 migrant Women Raped In Mexico, activists say
By TIM JOHNSON
McCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS
April 28, 2010, 8:41PM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6980699.html

MEXICO CITY — As many as six out of every 10 Central American women and girls are raped as they pass through Mexico hoping to cross illegally into the United States, Amnesty International said Wednesday.

The rapists include criminal gang members as well as local authorities in collusion with them, said Rupert Knox, an Amnesty International researcher on Mexico.

Last year, Mexican immigration authorities detained

64,061 migrants,

about a fifth of them women or girls, the report says.

Migrants fear that if they report assaults, abductions or rapes, they'll be deported to their home countries, it said.

---------------------------------------------------

My goodness Mexico actually enforces it's imigration laws, even against Spanish speaking Latinos/Latinas.

I wonder how Mexican law enforcement officials determine who is in the country legally and who is there illegally?

[The Mexican cops, from experience, know how 'illegals' look and how they behave. It is obiviously NOT the color of the suspects skin, unless they happen to be blonde haired and blue eyed and can't speak Spanish.]

"If Dems would only learn to use the truth." - Phil

...coming from a guy who posted an email chain from 2009 as "fact"

EGV:

Substatiate Ms. Democrat.

I live in Arizona and my husband is a legal resident alien. One of the federal laws that legal resident aliens are told when they get their identification papers (aka "green card"), is that they MUST carry proof of their legal status at all times. That is a federal law.

Reasonable suspicion is a legal term that has been clearly defined. Legal contact is a legal term that has been clearly defined. Racial profiling is expressly forbidden by the statute.

Latinos are not the only large ethnic group of illegal immigrants in Arizona. They are just the ones up in arms over this law. There is also a large population of illegal aliens from the Middle East and from Asia.

As was pointed out, the ethnic background of the police department here is similar to the ethnic background of the state at large... in other words, many Hispanic officers.

I have been in an accident with illegal aliens. Cost me a lot to get my car fixed and they got away free. Officers in our state have giant target signs on them because the drug running gangs want to intimidate them and make people afraid to join the police force.

They want to turn this state into an extension of a third world country and the federal government has done NOTHING to stop them. My father was a police officer here from the 1950s to the 1970s and is still in contact with many high ranking officials in the Phoenix Police Department. We have one of the most ethical police departments in the country. And these good men and women are being gunned down by violent criminals.

As a native Arizonan, I support SB 1070.

Hal, 7:34PM

Immigration status will be checked if the person is questioned by police for a legitimate reason.
This should include Canadians as well as any other person illegally in this country, whatever their nationality.
What does a drunk driver or rapist look like?
A police officer may not know he has stopped such a person until he smells their breath, observes behavior, checks ID or calls for any wants or warrants on the person.

Happens all the time Hal. When my brother was a police officer he pulled people for routine stops, only to discover they had guns or stolen property. He had to carefully document how he made his discovery, why the person was stopped, that the person was properly ID'd, etc. He couldn't just willy-nilly pull people over because of how they looked.

Hi Elisabeth,

Don't you just wish these bleeding heart liberals were as upset over the Hispanic border guard shot execution style by drug runners and the Hispanic child snatched from the home of his family, legal American citizens, in a likely case of mistaken identity? Thankfully the child was found alive, roaming a street in Mexico where he had been abandoned.

As always liberals have it backwards. Feel sorry for the perpetrators, to hell with the victims.

Artemis 5:08PM

Oh please Artemis, you're beginning to sound like a Greek chorus.

What if the illegal you feel so sorry for who is stopped running a red light happens to slam into your car or a car containing people you love? Will you be so concerned about the fate of this illegal as you bury your loved ones or spend time in a hospital? He likely won't pay a dime toward your expenses.

Artemis, if those dear nuns had wanted to board a plane or cash a check, they would have had to show ID, or been SOL. My bank, where I have been a customer for 33 years won't give me a dime without seeing TWO pieces of ID.

If the hispanics you mention couldn't produce ID, its likely police would do what they usually do when you are violating traffic or loitering laws, ticket them for driving without a license and then do a computer check. If there's any question
you are given an opportunity to produce your ID. Police may follow you home. If the loitering teen is a minor, his parents will be called.

Seth Myers and Cheech Marin. Now those are two great legal minds if there ever were!

The police departments in the larger metropolitan have equipped their patrol cars with video cameras that scan the license plates of the cars in their field of view. Then the on board computer in the squad car gives the make, model and color of car it is assigned to as well as the person to whom it is registered. If the car is on the stolen vehicle list or there are outstanding warrants on the owner of the car or the car is reported stolen or the car does not match the description on the registration the on board computer alerts the officer driving the patrol car.

The officer will most likely pull that car over and call for back up and then approach the car with great caution. Nothing racist about that.

Police officers 'profile'all the time. Race may figure into the calculation some time but not always.

If they observe showing signs of neglect and disrepair rollling down the road, there is a more than likely chance the driver will not be able to produce proof of insurance. The officer just has to wait for the driver to violate one of a myriad of traffic laws and he has probable cause to pull the car over and as the driver for his papers.

I have been pulled over for crossing the white fog line on the edge of the sholder of road.

I was driving a 20 year old Suburban full of kids.

Did I fit the 'pofile'? Yes.

When I produced the required documents and answered the officers guestions truthfully, he cautioned me not to cross the fog line and sent me on my way.

If during his conversation with me the officer had detected 'tells' that indicated I was nervous or being dishonest, he probably would have continued the conversation untill he was satisfied I was not doing anything illegal.

Everytime you pass through customs and immigration returning to the United States you go through the same drill.

The law enforcement officers are practicing due diligence and following procedure.

They are 'profiling'.

Hi Ken,

Three senior citizens coming into the US have their car searched at the border. Mexicans? Muslims?

No, my 67y/o sister who is a retired nurse, her 70y/o husband who is a retired physician, and my 92y/o mother returning to the states after visiting grandchildren and great grandchildren in Canada.

Two teenage boys out for a drive are suddenly surrounded by police and forced to stop at the side of the road. With guns drawn, the police order hands up and out of the car then finally permit the young men to retrieve their IDs, after threatening to shoot one of them for moving too soon to check his wallet.

Hispanics? Mexicans? Suspected illegal aliens?
No, two white males, both high school seniors and American citizens, who happened to fit the description, vehicle and all, of two young white males in a white station wagon that had just committed armed robbery in the same vicinity my two friends happened to be driving in.

Egads, that almost sounds like profiling!! Don't police just target illegal aliens!

I'm not that concerned with the "rights" of the illegal immigrants, but I am concerned with the rights of American citizens of Mexican descent. They, like the rest of us, have no duty to carry proof of citizenship.

I do see that the AZ Senate Bill, which I originally quoted, was amended by the AZ House. So, there is some improvement in the final bill. However, I still don't see it getting through the courts. We'll see, I guess.

Hal,

The only "proof of citizenship" is a driver's license, state issued ID, passport, tribal ID card, green card,etc. I certainly hope you have the good sense to carry such "proof of citizenship" at all times. It makes it a lot easier to ID you in an emergency.

Hal:

Think for a change will ya?