Sorry, I've been out-of-pocket in DC again this week. I'll be home Monday. Thanks very much to moderators Bethany and MK for holding the fort in my absence.
Thursday night, MN Republican Sen. Norm Coleman was able to add an amendment to a bill that prevents any government from carrying out a death sentence on a woman while she is pregnant. Aside from arguments for and against the death penalty, why would pregnancy matter?
[Hat tip: Family Research Council]
It amazes me that there are fetal homicide laws, protection of the unborn for death row inmates...and yet abortion is legal, with no parental notice, no spousal notice, at any time in the pregnancy...I mean the inconsistencies are GLARING! Why doesn't anyone see them?
We really need to define life and when it begins. Then we can begin to make laws to protect it...laws that makes sense and don't contradict themselves at every turn...Posted by: MK at July 21, 2007 8:55 AM
The inconsistencies with pro-choice are indeed glaring, but not everyone is blind to their contraditions.
As embryology and biology advance, it becomes clear that human development is a continuum. Within such a continuous growth process, it is hard to defend logically any demarcation point after conception as the point at which an immature form of human life is so different from the day before or the day after, that it can be morally or legally discounted as a non-person. The same legal tradition which in our society guarantees the right to control one's own body should firmly recognize the wrongfulness of harming other bodies, however immature, dependent, different looking or powerless. The fetus is an immature, dependent form of human life, which only needs time and protection to develop. Surely, immaturity and dependence are not crimes.
BTW, it's nice to meet you too! As to when life begins, I can only speak from personal experience. My life began at the moment of conception. I believe yours did too!!Posted by: J.J. at July 21, 2007 11:24 AM
"The fetus is an immature, dependent form of human life, which only needs time and protection to develop".
One could say the exact same thing about an infant, toddler, and child. In some cases even teenagers!
Welcome to the blog JJ
"We really need to define life and when it begins. Then we can begin to make laws to protect it..."
This is what colorado is trying to do. On the 08 ballot will be amendment defining life at fertilization.Posted by: jasper at July 21, 2007 12:14 PM
Thank you for the warm welcome. I'm glad you understood what I was trying to say. Pro-choice advocates set the standard of personhood so high that half the human race can't meet the criteria during most of their waking hours. Sentience, self-consciousness, rational decision-making, social participation? Surely no infant or child under two could qualify. The pro-life position will defend the unborn because we identify with an immature state of growth passed though by ourselves, our children and everyone now alive.
Beats me. I'm against the death penalty whatsoever, and as a pro-lifer, there is no way to justify the execution of an innocent being. So even if I were to support the death penalty, I wouldn't support executing a pregnant woman.Posted by: prettyinpink at July 21, 2007 12:28 PM
Its simple. Deliver the baby and 24 hours later execute the capital criminal. That way justice is brought about and the innocent are protected.
It profanes God to both kill those who should not die and to keep people alive who should not live Ezek 13:19
And hooray for Colorado Right To Life for putting the Human Life Amendment up for a vote in Colorado! Without a doubt, Brian Rohrbaugh and Bob Enyart are leading the way for pro-life efforts in the USA with more clarity and a more Godly strategy then ever before!
FYI - Rock For Life signed the Open Letter to Dobson the other day and Alan Keyes is adding his name to it soon as well.Posted by: Zeke13:19 at July 21, 2007 2:10 PM
Every time I hear you say you are pro-life I get excited all over again. I'm smiling from ear to ear as I'm writing this! I feel like a proud mom!Posted by: MK at July 21, 2007 4:40 PM
I heard on relevant radio yesterday that many states have adopted the fetal homicide law...so that if a car accident takes place where a man rear ends a woman that is pregnant, killing her and the unborn baby, he can be charged with double homicide...(and here's the killer) EVEN if the woman was on her way to an abortion clinic to end the child's life...
Posted by: MK
at July 21, 2007 4:46 PM
Is that nuts or what?
MK, I am still going to e-mail you my answers! Can you ever forgive me???? I hope everyone is well! I have a new job, and I have started my home study course. Hectic IS the word. Adding to that, car trouble. All fixed now. Haven't really had a minute. It's absurd that we don't consider life beginning at conception! I just don't get it!! We had a story here similar to the Scott Peterson murder. The murder of Jessie Davis and her unborn child. It's mind boggling to say the least. If you wanted the baby, it's double homicide. If you DON'T want it, it's abortion. Am I missing something??Posted by: Heather4life at July 21, 2007 7:37 PM
The fetal homicide law sounds like a good place to start! Now, if we could only apply this law to abortionists!Posted by: Heather4life at July 21, 2007 7:39 PM
Please clarify. Suppose the death row inmate is only 3 months along in pregnancy. At what point should the baby be delivered so that her/his mother's execution takes place? Are you supportive of C-section for something like that? Or let nature take its course? And then we have a 24 hour postpartum mom still bleeding from childbirth being escorted to the execution chamber?...yes, PLEASE clarify.
Norm Coleman is going to get his head handed to him by Al Franken.Posted by: SoMG at July 22, 2007 1:36 AM
There's nothing to forgive...I figured something was going on because you've only been on sporadically!
Of course you can email me your answers...looking forward to it!Posted by: MK at July 22, 2007 7:37 AM
"Norm Coleman is going to get his head handed to him by Al Franken."
SoMG, Al Franken will fail just like his Air America liberal radio station. Haha, they went bankrupt!Posted by: jasper at July 22, 2007 10:48 AM
Double that ha ha!Posted by: Heather4life at July 22, 2007 11:58 AM
The two most important rules in love, war, and politics:
Never underestimate you oppostion
Never expect, or predict, a victoryPosted by: Mary at July 22, 2007 12:32 PM
I'm really hitting the wrong keys!
The first rule should say,
Never underestimate your oppositionPosted by: Mary at July 22, 2007 12:35 PM
Here's another rule you can add to the list:
Always expect the unexpected.Posted by: J.J. at July 22, 2007 1:09 PM
The pregnancy might well matter to the woman. I don't think there is much support for aborting it against her wishes nor for killing her before delivery if it's a wanted pregnancy.
Per the Roe decision, if a given state wants to protect the fetal life after viability, if it sees it in its interest to do so, then that too might come into it.
40 states and D.C. have restrictions late in pregnancy, so this "abortion is legal right up to birth" stuff is silly. There aren't clinics or hospitals, etc., that will do abortions in the last trimester just because the woman doesn't want to be pregnant, anyway, and that holds true for states with no law in place. Some states had poorly-written laws that have been struck down and repealed.
There are only 500-600 third trimester abortions per year in the US to start with, and they are for such severe fetal deficiency that aborting or not isn't even much of an issue.Posted by: Doug at July 31, 2007 3:55 PM