So did you think pro-life Democrat Senator Ben Nelson would ultimately cave on abortion in healthcare as he did, or hold strong?
I actually thought he'd stick with the babies.
I thought he'd ultimately cave. Politics as usual.
Also, personally, I wouldn't refer to him as being pro-life anymore. His actions speak much louder than his verbalized beliefs.
We need to send a STRONG message in 2010 and vote them ALL out of office, pro-life or not. We need to let our representatives know that it is the PEOPLE that they work for, not their special interests. We also need a term-limit on them as well.Posted by: Marie at December 19, 2009 5:50 PM
I hoped he would stand with the babies, too, Jill. I am heartbroken that he betrayed us all.Posted by: Jennifer at December 19, 2009 6:10 PM
As I said in another thread a Democrat is a Democrat is a Democrat.
Loyalty to party and leader come first.
I have to wonder what threats were issued along with the payoffs.
This is more tyranny that it is representative gov't. and that should frighten us more than anything.
Our Founding Fathers must be doing headstands in their graves.
Cheer up. The health insurance companies have paid Big Ben $3 million to thwart health care reform, just as they paid Joe Lieberman and his wife $5 million to buy his vote. Joe and Ben still will do everything they can to protect the health insurance companies' trillion dollar profits. They are bought and they will stay bought. Both are completely unprincipled and corrupt crooks who should go to jail together.Posted by: Bystander at December 19, 2009 6:35 PM
"So did you think pro-life Democrat Senator Ben Nelson would ultimately cave on abortion in healthcare as he did, or hold strong?"
Is the Pope Catholic?
There are times in politics where men of have to rise above partianship, do the politically expedient thing, and set prinicpal aside.
The liberal/progressive/humanistic chickens have roosted and the banty rooster is strutting around the hen house like he is the sire of the rotten egg known as hellth care.
When the egg has hatched and the hideous chick emerges I wonder if B.O. and his invertebrate brethren will acknowledge the little bastard as their own. [Oooooooh! Doesnt the little darlin have his father's eyes and his mother's cold dark heart?]
B.O. and his faithless flock will require more feed and, if it is possible, they will produce even less.
They consume everything and produce nothing but CO2 laden hot air and methane filled flatulence.
They weigh men down with burdens which they themselves will not lift a finger, or spend a dime of their 'own' to bare.
yor bro kenPosted by: kbhvac at December 19, 2009 6:51 PM
Posted by: Bystander at December 19, 2009 6:35 PM
"Both are completely unprincipled and corrupt crooks who should go to jail together."
Of course B.O. has never taken a dime from corporate interests.
All of his political donations came in amounts of less than one hundred dollars from good hearted men and women from every nation on this planet many of from those who had taken oaths of poverty and some even from people who are not now nor ever were on this planet.
yor bro kenPosted by: kbhvac at December 19, 2009 6:56 PM
They are bought and they will stay bought. Both are completely unprincipled and corrupt crooks who should go to jail together.
Bystander, could it be you and I are finally in complete agreement? Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 6:59 PM
Is there any hope AT ALL - as in another democrat taking Nelson's place? If there is, I will pray like mad for it.
I don't have a TV and everything on line is all over the map. My father just told me "it passed", but all I see on line is that Nelson folded, which implies "it WILL pass".
What I see happening is Obama announcing a victory for the Culture of Death on Christmas Day, when Christians celebrate the birth of the Son of God.
I feel absolutely sick.Posted by: gomorrah at December 19, 2009 7:02 PM
BO is and will remain a Chicago thug. Once the Democrats who are stupid enough to dance on the end of his string serve their purpose he will be through with them.
The American people put these thugs in power by falling for a smile, charisma, good speechmaking, and empty political buzzwords. Put simply, the way too many tyrants make their way into power.
People deserve the gov't they get.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 7:04 PM
I was skeptical due to his prior support of repealing the Mexico City Policy. But I was hopeful that his more recent votes showed an hi=onest conversion of heart. It seems his recent votes were nothing more than calculated political cover. Enjoy your eternity listening to the silent screams of babies being torn into bloody pieces Ben.Posted by: truthseeker at December 19, 2009 7:24 PM
Don't forget Ben Nelson is effectively stealing from the rest of the country since all of Nebraska's indigent health care with be borne by all Americans except Nebraska's residents.
It's like when your crazy uncle comes for Christmas and brings you cool toys. Only years later do you find out why Mom and Dad didn't seem to like him too much. The gifts were stolen and your uncle was a criminal.Posted by: hippie at December 19, 2009 7:41 PM
My salvation is not found in Ben Nelson.
My salvation is in Jesus Christ alone.
My kingdom is not of this earth.
Absent Christ, there is truly no other hope for mankind.
Maranatha! Maranatha! Emmanuel.Posted by: Chris Arsenault at December 19, 2009 7:43 PM
I thought he'd eventually vote for it, but only if they met his abortion demands.Posted by: Lauren at December 19, 2009 8:05 PM
I had hoped for better. The unrelenting pressure brought to bear on Nelson shows the desperation of the Democrats. Abortion is the glue that binds those radical special interest groups together. It is the sum total of their identity.
Moving beyond my bilious response, I see a great opportunity here. Obama would have been sunk without abortion. We need to focus our energies like a laser beam on this issue, voting out all pro-death politicians. The Dems are weak and desperate. Like a supernova, they are growing more intensely brilliant before the big explosion. They're not getting stronger. They're in their death throes.
We need to harness our disappointment and strike hard in the polls.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at December 19, 2009 8:23 PM
I am personally devastated having defended his record and knowing the good things in it. He has dashed all of that away with this action. He was the one person left standing who we thought we could count on. It is a very sad day for the pro-life movement and unborn babies.Posted by: Julie Schmit-Albin at December 19, 2009 8:38 PM
I thought he would stand up for life. It is usually the pro-choicers who cave. Once you understand abortion for what it really is you don't normally desert that belief. All I can do is snort in disgust at the usual yellow-bellied politicians. What a bunch of liars and thieves...all of them. I hope they are all voted out of office next election!Posted by: Sydney M. at December 19, 2009 8:42 PM
This bill is about Obama's personal glory and power grabbing. Anything his lapdog Reid must do to get a vote on Christmas Eve he will. The irony is Reid is committing political suicide in the process. Maybe he's counting on getting amnesty passed, Obama's next goal, to save the political hide of the Democrats. After all these "new Americans" will vote Democrat and that's what Obama and his minions are counting on.
What about unemployed Americans who may not be thrilled about having to compete for jobs? Well, they will go the way of Americans who oppose health care. Obama doesn't give a rip.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 8:49 PM
I never thought a little issue like abortion would be allowed to sink the health care bill. It's just not as important as ensuring that 31 million Americans can finally go to the doctor.Posted by: reality at December 19, 2009 8:50 PM
Please show me all the Americans dying on the streets because they can't get medical care.
Did it ever occur to you there are people who do not take the responsibility for their own care and seek out a doctor?
Why does Canada, with its gov't run program, contract American hospitals to provide their citizens with care they cannot provide?
Now its 31 million? Last I heard it was 41 million, then I heard it was 20 million, then I heard it was 12 million, then I heard......Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 8:54 PM
Google "Americans dying without health insurance." (I won't post a link because I know that will send me in to the moderation queue.) 45,000 Americans die every year because they don't have insurance.
And 31 million is the number of people the CBO estimated would be covered by the Senate bill.
Does it ever occur to you that there are a lot of American families that can't afford $12,000 a year for insurance? Letting people die because they are poor is as un-Christian as it gets.Posted by: reality at December 19, 2009 8:58 PM
"45,000 Americans die every year because they don't have insurance."
People die because they are sick. No one is "letting them die".
what is the penalty if a person thinks the health plan is a pile of crap and doesn't want to buy it?
And what is the penalty if they don't pay the fine? Force them into the prison health care where they belong. You and your minions are in for a world of hurt when this system starts screwing people over.
This was a bad day for the pro-life movement. Normally I don't respond to such ignorant "data" as you cite, but today I shall.
In this nation, ANY person can suffer a heart attack, have an ambulance called, and be taken to a local hospital within minutes. Once there, they will be taken to a cardiac cath. lab and a determination made about how best to proceed: stenting or bypass. They will receive this treatment all without regard for how much health insurance they have. If they have none, medicaid will pick up the tab. So spare me on this one, okay?
Then there is this supreme idiocy of 45,000 Americans dying each year who lack health insurance. Here are some data from CDC for 2006, the last year for which complete data are available.
In 2006, 2,426,264 Americans died. subtracting out your 45,000 leaves us with 2,381,264 Americans who died, who DID have health insurance. At some point, ya gotta go, money or no money, insurance or no insurance.
Can you cite your source for the 45,000? Can you also indicate how many of them would have died anyway and how many would have lived with private insurance? Then explain how that determination was made.
Next, let's look at data from the U.S. Department of Vital Statistics on life expectancy in the U.S. beginning in 1900.
So, am I missing something here? Our life expectancy continues to climb, in spite of these Draconian, Malthusian predictions from the left.
Do us a favor 'Reality', start dealing in reality.
The data don't lie. Only politicians do.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at December 19, 2009 9:29 PM
They died because they didn't have insurance?
Really? Exactly how did this happen?
Were they left on the street after a car accident?
Did they show up at the local ER with chest pain and were told they were SOL? Tell us what these people died of and how lack of insurance sealed their fate.
Did they die because they didn't have insurance or did they die and just not happen to have insurance?
Lot of factors here reality so you need to be a little more specific.
Also, why do you suppose the Canadian gov't is contracting with our hospitals if gov't run health care is so wonderful?
Also reality, there are free clinics, medicaid, and sliding scale services. There's the health dept. Drug stores have clinics staffed by NPs who do exams and advise on needed care for a minimum cost. There are urgent care centers.
Free market forces, competition, and cross state competition among insurance companies is what is needed, not another boondoggle gov't program.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 9:58 PM
I'm sorry that I neglected one other point, using the CDC data and the Democrat talking points.
The Democrats have thrown around the number of uninsured Americans as 47 million. They say that every year, 45,000 die for want of insurance. Both are lies, but I'll indulge them to show you the idiocy here.
Building on the CDC data above, in October 2006, the U.S. population reached 300 million. Let's go with those numbers.
Of the 300 million, 47 million were supposedly uninsured, leaving 253,000,000 WITH insurance. We've established that in that same year 2,381,264 INSURED people died.
That represents 0.941% of the population of INSURED Americans.
Now, of the 47 million supposedly WITHOUT insurance, 45,000 died.
That represents 0.0957% of the UNINSURED population dying.
THAT"S FULLY TEN TIMES FEWER PEOPLE DYING IN THE UNINSURED POOL THAN IN THE INSURED POOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, do you want to admit that you've been lied to, or that it's healthier to lack insurance and stay away from the doctors?Posted by: Gerard Nadal at December 19, 2009 10:00 PM
An outstanding post.
I would still like to know why the Canadian gov't must contract with our hospitals to care for their citizens.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 10:00 PM
Prolifers as I posted in an earlier thread I wondered who was going to get picked off either by using threats, intimidation or bribery or all of these. I wondered what they would use to bribe the DemocRATS to fold and fall into line. I know we don't know what all was said to Nelson behind closed doors. What we know about is the bribery of millions dollars in federal funds that will go to his state. I heard reported that a poll taken just recently about whether Nebraska voters wanted this healthcare take-over bill passed ran 61% said NO, only 20% said YES and the rest were unsure. That is a outstanding show of displeasure for a bill. For Nelson to know this and vote for it anyway is political suicide. Harry and Obama must have promised him something awful big to take this deal even though his constituents don't want it. What do you think he was promised to do this?Posted by: Prolifer L at December 19, 2009 10:04 PM
When he said his vote wasn't for sale, I believed him.
I actually believed what a politician said.
Perhaps more importantly now, what will Stupak do?
This bill goes to committee now right? It will emerge undoubtedly with the Stupak Ammendment stripped from the final bill.
First Stupak said he would probably vote for the bill even if it contained fed. funds for abortion because he felt getting Health Care passed was that important. Then he said if his ammendment was stripped "there would be Hell to pay". He claims he has the votes to block final passage.
And if he does, wouldn't that be the best outcome at this point, blow the whole thing up?Posted by: Ed at December 19, 2009 10:09 PM
Why on earth are the Democrats so determined to ram a bill through the senate and congress that the majority of the American people do not want and commit political suicide at the same time?
Why are they so willing to jump off a cliff for the glory of Obama?
Its uncanny. I know Obama is a sociopath but just how far can his powers of persausion go?Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 10:13 PM
I don't know, but he is earning himself an ambassadorship to Gehanna.Posted by: truthseeker at December 19, 2009 10:13 PM
Thanks. What's maddening is that all thinking people know perfectly well why Canada sends their seriously ill here, and yet here we are.
'Reality' needs a reality check.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at December 19, 2009 10:14 PM
I hoped he would stand with the babies, too, Jill. I am heartbroken that he betrayed us all.
Posted by: Jennifer at December 19, 2009 6:10 PM
Like you Jennifer I was hoping so much he'd be different, a politician with integrity. I think that's why I believed him, because I really wanted to believe he was a man of character.Posted by: Ed at December 19, 2009 10:16 PM
"Its uncanny. I know Obama is a sociopath but just how far can his powers of persausion go?"
Look at Nazi Germany.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at December 19, 2009 10:16 PM
Hi Gerard 10:16PM,
That's what I was thinking. I understand that even in the rubble of post war Nazi Germany, people still longed for a return to the days of Hitler, when there was "social order" and "prosperity". You morons, he's the reason you're sitting on all this rubble!
There is a black columnist who was writing that Obama's tanking poll numbers among whites indicated some kind of racism. I had to remind him that his devotion to Obama blinds him to some harsh realities, such as a Depression era level of black unemployment.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 10:28 PM
To answer the question - how did Nelson cave on abortion? His main request was that states offer plans without abortion coverage. He got that. According to CNN, the also requested that "anyone receiving federal health subsidies would pay separately for an abortion."
Not seeing how he caved - sorry.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at December 19, 2009 10:30 PM
Gerard thanks for your posts. I tired of hearing this crap from pro-aborts about how people dying in the streets of America from not having healthcare. I worked in healthcare for years and everyone that showed up got excellent healthcare whether they had insurance, Medicaid or NO insurance at all. We were too busy giving good care to our patients to worry about who had insurance or who did not. If a hospital is caught refusing to give medical care, shipping patients to another facility because they cannot pay (which Michelle Obama's ex-employer U. of C. was accused of doing by the way) or mistreating patients due to inability to pay, Medicare can shut the entire hospital down by revoking their status as a Medicare provider. These signs are posted all over the hospital in admitting office, emergency department and at the entrances, so patients know they can report the hospital to Medicare.
Hi Ed. How are you doing? We must keep praying brother, for God to help us save the babies somehow. We are in a spiritual war of phenomenal proportions.Posted by: Prolifer L at December 19, 2009 10:32 PM
Gerard - the 45,000 figure comes from Harvard:
"The Harvard study found that people without health insurance had a 40 percent higher risk of death than those with private health insurance — as a result of being unable to obtain necessary medical care. The risk appears to have increased since 1993, when a similar study found the risk of death was 25 percent greater for the uninsured.
The increase in risk, according to the study, is likely to be a result of at least two factors. One is the greater difficulty the uninsured have today in finding care, as public hospitals have closed or cut back on services. The other is improvements in medical care for insured people with treatable chronic conditions like high blood pressure."Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at December 19, 2009 10:35 PM
Did Nelson really hold out because of abortion or was he looking for a Mary Landrieu style bribe?Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 10:36 PM
Again Ex-GOP voter, there are a lot of factors here.
Were the people unable to obtain medicaid, medicare, or visit a free clinic or sliding scale doctor? Did they make any personal effort to do so?
Did they take personal responsiblity for their health. I have mentioned before about a doctor who set up a clinic to provide free prenatal care to women in a low income community. Not one woman came in. They had time and money though for cigarettes, drugs, and liquor, a source of great concern to this doctor.
Were these people unable to afford health insurance or just unwilling to pay for it?
All too often people do not have their priorities straight.
We have friends who inherited a house, can afford drugs, booze, tattoos, and big dogs but can't pay their property taxes. BTW they get all the health care they need, thanks to the taxpayer.
More lies and dissembling come out of Harvard than their motto 'Veritas'.
Did Harvard bother to say where they got their data and how they crunched the numbers? No. Truth isn't important in the Ivies anymore. Only assertions matter, not data.
I used CDC and Dept. of Vital Statistics data, along with Harvard's numbers to demonstrate how horribly wrong the Harvard study is. The uninsured, USING THE DEMOCRAT'S AND HARVARD'S NUMBERS, have a TENFOLD lower death rate than the general population.
I won't use pretty language here. If one of my students pulled this on me I'd tell them that the project is nothing more than *@%$@ing lies and 100% B.S. Then I'd fail them on the spot. The Harvard crap is politics. I'm a scientist. I deal with the data, wherever they may lead me. I don't have the luxury of lying through my teeth.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at December 19, 2009 10:48 PM
Hi Mary. That is a good question about possibly Nelson holding out for a deal. I just wondered what was said to him behind closed doors that he would go against the voters in Nebraska? I heard the Pelosi told her Democrats from conservative states she would have a way for them to vote against parts of the bill to try to save their hinds for the 2010 elections.Posted by: Prolifer L at December 19, 2009 10:49 PM
Mary - if you google the 45,000 number, you'll quickly find the study to read all of the factors. One of the main factors though is that without coverage, people wait until later to go in. Yes, they get covered then, but instead of caching something when it was the flu, it has now become something more major. I didn't write the study though, so you'd have to read it to answer the questions you have.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at December 19, 2009 10:50 PM
Another thing Ex,
The people I mention in the last paragraph of my 10:46PM post. They have no insurance and I expect they will not have a long life span. It isn't for lack of medical care, its for a complete lack of personal responsibility for their health.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 10:52 PM
Gerard - yes, it's a published study - you can easily find it on the net. If you deal with numbers and stats, you'll enjoy the read.
I don't know you so I can't say if I trust you or Harvard more. I hear they are a pretty good school, but I know their football team sucks. That doesn't discount them in my view - just something to take under consideration.
Sorry it makes you so mad though that they don't agree with you. No reason to yell at students and use foul language.
Common sense though should lead you to the conclusion that people without insurance have a strike against them - they wait longer to get care, plain and simple. I don't need a study to tell me that. Pretty obvious.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at December 19, 2009 10:54 PM
Mary - you seem to be saying that poor people are fat slobs who smoke and drink too much - and thus it is okay if they die sooner. I don't think you mean to say that, but that's what it seems to say. I've known people who can't afford healthcare. It is not because they drink, smoke, do drugs, or buy big dogs.
I do find the big dogs part fascinating though - I think small dogs in general are more expensive, are they not? If a person didn't have health insurance, did drugs and smoked, but had a small dog - are you more okay with them?
Sorry about being sarcastic - it's just a little bit of a bizarre theory you have going on, that's all. I know a lot of fat smokers who have health insurance. Not sure if they have big dogs though. One for sure has a cat.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at December 19, 2009 10:58 PM
You're getting closer to the truth. Yes, uninsured people may wait longer and show up with a more serious condition. But so do insured people. Men are notorious for this stuff, though they have insurance. The Harvard study didn't factor in that reality, because it undercuts their argument.
However, all you need to do is look at the data that I crunched here to realize that the gross over-generalizations reside in the numbers of uninsured. The American Spectator deconstructs this myth to show how the actual number of uninsured Americans is 8.2 million, not 47 million. Read it here:
So friend, we see the manufactured crisis by the Dems. We see Nelson's betrayal in the light of a manufactured crisis meant to wrest autonomy from citizens in order to further the culture of death. The increasing life expectancies i cited speak for themselves. So do 50+ million abortions since Roe.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at December 19, 2009 11:02 PM
People may also not seek out care because of denial. I have all too often encountered people showing up critically ill in the ER because they or family members didn't think they were that sick to begin with. Or people whose suspicious symptoms were brushed off. Again, is our first inclination to think we have some serious disorder or to rationalize that we don't?
Muppet creator Jim Henson and actress Elizabeth Taylor brushed off "flu symptoms". Henson died and Elizabeth Taylor nearly died because they were far more critically ill than they thought. I'm sure they didn't seek medical care early for lack of funds.
Again lots of factors here, including human nature which is not always the most rational.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 11:03 PM
Did you know that men take even longer when football games are on? Interesting study. I did not read the whole Harvard study yet - just parts - but I stick to my belief that being insured is more likely to kill you than being insured.
I don't know if the article should be real proud, and if we as a nation should be really proud, if the number is only 31 million, or 21 million. With all due respect to the American Spectator - 21 million people is a pretty bigger number. I don't think that's a "manufactured crisis". Furthermore, the car industry has shown us where we stand on the global competitiveness market due to health care costs. Cost control is a massive need.
More than have of private insurance covers abortions. Private insurance is non-taxed. Thus, we've been subsidizing abortion for years.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at December 19, 2009 11:08 PM
Kindly directly quote me saying that poor people are fat slobs who smoke and drink too much and that its OK they die sooner.
You miss my point. I am saying some people do not have their priorities in life quite straight and as such do not take personal responsiblity for their health. Just as some people do not take personal responsiblity for paying their bills or managing their lives.
I would think paying property taxes takes priority over owning dogs, whatever their size, getting tattoos and spending money on cigarettes, booze, and drugs, especially when you got the house at no cost.
I would also think that having serious health issues, as these same people do, would make me forego cigarettes, booze, and drugs.
I would think the women in the low income community would put their health and that of their unborn children first and forego cigarettes, liquor, and drugs and make time to visit the doctor who is offering free care.
My point Ex is that some people simply do not take personal responsiblity of any kind, their health and good health practices are not a priority in their lives and finding good medical care may not be either.
BTW, this crosses all economic barriers. A well educated intelligent middle class woman I know and greatly respect sees no connection between her morbid obesity and her diabetes and severe arthritis. Losing weight would be an act of personal responsibility that would greatly enhance her health and life expectency which she apparently has no intention of doing.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 11:19 PM
Again, way too many factors to just say those who have insurance this and those that don't have insurance that.
The people I mentioned do not have insurance, but they get health care and darned good health care.
Unfortunately, they are people who also take no personal responsibility for their health.
The more I think of it the more I am convinced this was a ploy by Nelson to get a bribe. Heck if Mary Landrieu could pull it off why couldn't he?
Also, Princess Pelosi is only too happy to sacrifice these "blue dog" Democrats who she considers a pain in the fanny anyway and expects them to be canned in 2010. She of course does not have to worry since she comes from a solidly liberal district.
Yet despite this, what do you want to bet these "blue dogs" will be Pelosi and Obama's lapdogs? Its just mindboggling how these Democrats are so ready to jump off a cliff.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 11:42 PM
I believed that he was a man of integrity and would do the right thing; however, I believe he was under incredible pressure from B.O. and the Demos and was very vulnerable. Under such conditions, Satan swoops in and tends to be very effective in tempting a person to sin. I think he wanted to do the right thing -- I am hoping he will change his mind and that others will as well. It's totally ridiculous for the Senate to work weekends like this and for BO to try to ram this death care bill down our throats!
I continue to pray for a Christmas miracle.Posted by: Jean at December 19, 2009 11:42 PM
You are far more charitable than I am. I remain convinced it was a ploy to get a bribe, uh I mean a concession.Posted by: Mary at December 19, 2009 11:45 PM
Reality, I've already shed some light on that phoney number of "45,000". It's crap. It's from a report that took a headcount of x number of people, asked if they had health insurance, wrote down if they said "no", and then checked if those people were alive 10 years later. They didn't bother to verify if those people had died in auto accidents, suicides, or anything else NON-INSURANCE/MEDICINE-RELATED. They didn't bother to verify if those people had later obtained health insurance in their lifetimes (many had). It's just a number pulled out of the rear of some socialist agenda-whore, and you repeat it incessantly like verbal diarrhea. Take your poop elsewhere, please.Posted by: xalisae at December 20, 2009 1:13 AM
I suppose I'm still wondering how Nelson caved. An earlier post of mine:
"To answer the question - how did Nelson cave on abortion? His main request was that states offer plans without abortion coverage. He got that. According to CNN, the also requested that "anyone receiving federal health subsidies would pay separately for an abortion."
Not seeing how he caved - sorry."Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at December 20, 2009 8:29 AM
Agreed, we really need to pray. I'm excited to see how God is going to move. The brothers and sisters down at IHOP in Kansas City have been praying in shifts, around the clock, 24 hrs/day for the past 10 years that God would bring an end to abortion in America and that He would send revival.
Like the prophet Joel prophesied, "‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams. Ac 2:17
I believe we talked about Julie Meyer's vision in another thread. Now, during this recent awakening, one of their other leaders had a powerful vision of Jesus ministering to His Church (starts at the :37 minute mark).
We're living in exciting times!
Like Chris A said, our hope is in Him!Posted by: Ed at December 20, 2009 8:34 AM
Of course he caved. This is making me doubt that there are any truly pro life Dems. After all why would you want to align yourself with a party that has a pro abortion plank. I feel sick. I have more respect for someone who is straight up pro abortion. I think I need to travel to NE to campaign for his defeat. Let us not forget this betrayal.Posted by: Maria at December 20, 2009 8:36 AM
Here is one more pretty cool link to a testimony of an IHOP University student ministering to an AT&T store manager who was post-abortive (in the store, starts at about the 1:05:00 mark.)Posted by: Ed at December 20, 2009 8:55 AM
Sorry, in order to navigate to the IHOP links above, you need to click on the appropriate session in the scroll down box just to the right of the video.
For the powerful vision of Jesus ministering to His church, click on Fri 12.18.09 Part 2 and go to the 37:00 mark.
For the testimony of the IHOP U student ministering to the post-abortive ATT store manager in the store, click on Wed 12.16.09 Part 2 and go to the 1:05:00 mark.Posted by: Ed at December 20, 2009 9:26 AM
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at December 19, 2009 8:23 PM
"The Dems are weak and desperate. Like a supernova, they are growing more intensely brilliant before the big explosion."
Gerard, when you use words like brighter or brilliant it leaves the impression the progressive/liberal/democRATS are becoming 'smarter'.
They are fools who practice deception and, being deceived themselves, only sink deeper into the black hole of a grave they have unwittingly excavated for themselves.[Kind of like Haaman building the very gallows from which he was hung.]
Just stand back and let then and their blind devotees rush over the precipice and into the abyss. God's arms is not to short to catch the ones HE wants before, like Judas, they fall headlong to their death and destruction.
Humans are stupid!
yor bro ken
Posted by: reality at December 19, 2009 8:58 PM
"45,000 Americans die every year because they don't have insurance."
Just to humor you lets assume for a moment that your number is correct.
How many of those 45,000 would be just as dead if they had had health insurance?
And if this hellth care bill actually becomes law how many more americans do you suppose will die because your progressive/liberal/humanists do to our health care system what they have already done to the social security system, the auto industry, and our banking system?
You really should get out more. Take long leasurely walks and drink lots water.
Do some thinking for yourself.
A mind is a horrible thing to waste.
Use it [before it's too late]or lose it.
yor bro ken
Posted by: kbhvac
at December 20, 2009 10:18 AM
Ex-GOP voter: anything less than Hyde Amendment language prohibiting taxpayer funding of abortion is a FAIL. Anything that puts abortion funding as "normal" is a FAIL. Shell games do not fool me.
The parliamentary moves of the Democrats are a far cry from the "open and transparent" debate Obama promised.Posted by: Denise at December 20, 2009 10:29 AM
Posted by: Gerard Nadal at December 19, 2009 9:29 PM
Great post Gerard!
The only things guaranteed in life are salvation, death and taxes.
The Democrats keep trying to combine those last two, and to them, in all sorts of new and creative ways.
Thank God has provided salvation through Christ!
Posted by: Chris Arsenault
at December 20, 2009 10:59 AM
Does it ever occur to you that there are a lot of American families that can't afford $12,000 a year for insurance? Letting people die because they are poor is as un-Christian as it gets.
Posted by: reality at December 19, 2009 8:58 PM
And there will be a lot more now because that is exactly what is going to happen. $12,000 a year for insurance is what the middle class will be paying. I pay no where near $12,000 a year now and we are completely middle class but everywhere you turn, Dem or Rep. they are saying that is what the middle class will pay becuase this will only drive up the cost of premiums.
Where is the interstate competition? Isn't greater competiton what drives the cost of all products down? Of course it is, it's been proven over and over again. Look at Lasik eye surgury. But that isn't what the Dems want. They want big government and to drive the middle class into poverty.Posted by: Kristen at December 20, 2009 11:15 AM
We don’t depend upon what others do or don’t do to define success, we depend upon what we do!
Also see: 2 Corinthians 4: 1-4Posted by: Dean Magdal Thompson at December 20, 2009 11:26 AM
I had no doubt that he would cave. This administration and their goons have no intention of letting this crisis (you know, the one THEY manufactured in the first place) go to waste.
The back room dealings are no better than the interactions seen in the movie "The Godfather"; if they won't cave to bribery, then make them an "offer that they can't refuse".
This is what we've come to, America. Read the writing on the wall and weep for the demise of what was once the greatest country on earth.Posted by: Michelle at December 20, 2009 11:41 AM
This is such a great question: Did Nelson cave? The carefully honed image Ben Nelson has put forward and nurtured is that he is pro-life, ergo "vote for me".
Naturally, pro-lifers, especially Nebraskans, are justifiably unpset because in the end he showed his true colors. He is only "pro-life" to the extent that it does not interfere with even more important priorities.
One of those priorities is not to be glared upon by his fellow conferrees. If a reader does not think that the prospect of being "hung out to dry" does not play a role in negotiations, then he or she has likely never participated in a round or two of negotiations that has real life consequences for people. If you are going to take a principled stand, you had better have real backbone.
So he was left with one of two choices. One, was to stand with pro-lifers whom he wooed and whom he never tried to disabuse of the notion that he was anything but pro-life. The other was to acquiesce to Reid's craftiness because it offered the plausible rationalization which he felt was the fig leaf he needed.
I don't know the inner workings of Ben Nelson's thinking, but most pro-lifers, certainly those who have been at it for decades, see right through the phoniness.Posted by: Jerry at December 20, 2009 12:35 PM
Posted by: reality at December 19, 2009 8:58 PM
"Does it ever occur to you that there are a lot of American families that can't afford $12,000 a year for insurance? Letting people die because they are poor is as un-Christian as it gets."
What does behaving Christian or un-Christian have to do with whether or not Jane or John Doe can afford to buy health insurance?
How does that figure in to the equation?
Using an emotional manipulation as a calculated tactic in an attempt to guilt me into doing what you and your progressive/humanist want me to do is immature at the least.
The same GOD who gives me breath and life gave me a mind and a heart and I am fully capable of making my own decisions concerning to whom I should show compassion and whom I should offer my assistance.
The need is not the call.
Just because someone is 'suffering' does not mean I am called to alleviate it.
Holy Spirit sees into mens and womens lives and knows the secrets of their hearts and HE gives me knowledge and wisdom when and how to respond.
Sometimes HE directs me NOT to intervene. And HE does NOT discriminate between christians and non-christians. Sometimes HE tells me to give to the pagan and withhold from the brother in the LORD.
GOD allows and uses sufferring for HIS own purposes in our lives.
What you, liberal humanist that you are, want to do is use the power of the state [your god] to steal my wealth and redistribute them according to your relativistic standards of right and wrong.
You do what your father does. You rob, you kill and you destroy.
History is repleat with examples of the misery, death and destruction your humnistic god/state wreaks on the unfortunate souls who find themselves enduring your perverted utopia.
yor bro ken
Posted by: kbhvac
at December 20, 2009 1:21 PM
This is what we've come to, America. Read the writing on the wall and weep for the demise of what was once the greatest country on earth.
Posted by: Michelle at December 20, 2009 11:41 AM
Hey Michelle, I'm not weeping.
Yes - we've got one awful swill-pit of a swamp going on in DC.
However, we're just going to have to dig something bigger and greater than the Panama Canal to drain it.
Our politicians are crooked, but I'm convinced practically all Americans are unhappy with the deceit and BS in DC.
This country is still full of some incredibly spirited patriots who still uphold the Constitutional principles, and I'm privileged to entrust to them and with them my sacred honor. You can find some of them right here on this blog. True salt of the earth.
God isn't done with the USA yet, but we have some work cut out for us.
Just remember - adversity breeds greatness, and God refines greatness through fire.Posted by: Chris Arsenault at December 20, 2009 2:01 PM
I am a Demacrat, and I am prolife, and I know some repubolicans, who side with harry Read! Nelson, didn't have the testerone to stand up for what was right, because he'd rather give in to America's god lord obama, instead of the true GOD THE LORD JESUS CHRIST THE TRUE AND ONLY SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!Posted by: RJ Sandefur at December 20, 2009 2:04 PM
Preach it RJ! Go on with your bad (as in good) self!Posted by: Ed at December 20, 2009 2:30 PM
Pro-Life Democrat is an oxymoron.Posted by: Phil Schembri is Hisman at December 20, 2009 3:27 PM
Call me cynical, but I believe the majority (if not all) of our elected officials has a price. I figured he'd eventually get whatever he was holding out for.
I'm sorry to have been correct. :(Posted by: Kel at December 20, 2009 8:22 PM
Hi Ed thanks for the links I did read Julie Meyer's vision, it was powerful especially the part about the garbage cans full of aborted babies some living and some dead. I will have to check out the other links later.
As I go to sleep tonight with a heavy heart, I will pray that God will cause what Joseph said to his brothers who sold him into slavery to come to pass "that what you meant for evil God has turned to good". There is nothing that takes our Lord by surprise. I am indeed hurting for my country, for all of the aborted babies and for their mothers. I feel a need to pray right now.
Heavenly Father, we pray for true repentance to come to our country and that you will come heal our land. Our hearts are heavy because of the shedding of the innocent blood of unborn babies throughout this land. Please vindicate the innocent, those without a voice and all of the silent screams of those tortured in their mother's wombs, the one place that is supposed to be the safest and most nurturing, which has now become the most dangerous, a place of torture, mutilation and a chamber of death. I am going to end with The Lord's Prayer.
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trepass against us. And lead us not into to temptation but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
God help our nation and our world. Jesus is still Lord!! Good night.Posted by: Prolifer L at December 20, 2009 10:54 PM
Amen and amen PLL.
In the Bill Johnson link above he specifically comments on the Lord's Prayer and praying out and establishing His Kingdom in the Earth.
It will bless you when you can get to it. These are very busy days for me too.
EdPosted by: Ed at December 20, 2009 11:06 PM
I pray that God thwart the plans of the evil ones, that He confuse their speech and that more and more come to see through the "good" they do that is truly evil.Posted by: carla at December 21, 2009 9:02 AM
I thought he'd stick with the babies.Posted by: Tony at December 21, 2009 4:10 PM