Obama’s confusion about the Holocaust
On Monday presidential candidate Barack Obama misspoke when citing Auschwitz rather than Ohrdruf (pictured right), a sub-camp of Buchenwald, as one of the Nazi concentration camps his uncle helped liberate. According to the Associated Press:
The Barack Obama campaign said Tuesday the candidate mistakenly referred to the wrong Nazi death camp when relating the story of a great-uncle who helped liberate the camps in World War II….
The Democratic presidential candidate said the story is accurate except that the camp was Buchenwald, not Auschwitz….
Aides said Tuesday that his grandmother’s brother, Charlie Payne, helped liberate a Buchenwald sub-camp in April 1945 as part of the 89th Infantry Division.
In a meeting Monday with veterans, Obama discussed the importance of improving treatment for soldiers suffering post-traumatic stress. To illustrate his point, he talked about his own family.
“I had an uncle who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps. The story in our family was that when he came home, he just went up into the attic and he didn’t leave the house for six months,” Obama said. “Now, obviously something had really affected him, but at that time there just weren’t the kinds of facilities to help somebody work through that kind of pain.”
I don’t consider Obama’s gaffe a big deal. Who hasn’t mixed up names?
But I am disgusted that Obama would decry the Holocaust on one hand while promoting the most atrocious of abortions on the other. He understands the concept of humans committing atrocities against other humans. He just cherry-picks applications.
Merely viewing carnage at a concentration camp was apparently so traumatic it caused Obama’s uncle to go catatonic. Meanwhile Obama supports drawing-and-quartering D&E abortions, partial birth abortions, and even live birth abortions.
I’ll tell you something. The first year I testified before Obama in an IL Senate committee that at least one IL hospital five miles from his church was letting preemie babies die by slow suffocation, some naked and cold and alone, I didn’t think he understood.
So the next year I brought photos from my neonatal resuscitation guidebook, published by the American Heart Association and American Academy of Pediatrics, showing a very premature infant being resuscitated at the same age as some were being left to die at Christ Hospital. I submitted the photos and watched the page distribute them to members of the committee. I watched Obama glance at the photos, set them aside, and go on to argue against IL’s Born Alive Infant Protection Act.
The man, as are all pro-aborts, is schizophrenic and lacks conscience. Here are the photos I submitted to Obama. Click to enlarge:
I was reading history on the Ohrdruf camp this morning and came on this, a recollection from a liberating soldier:
I wrote a letter to my parents describing the experience, which was read at a local gathering of businessmen. It was widely disbelieved.
And another soldier’s account:
When we took Ohrdruf. I spoke to some people in the town of Ohrdruf; they did not know a thing. The Mayor of Ohrdruf claimed he didn’t know about it. He committed suicide. With all of them it was always somebody else. It was always: “It was not me.”
And I recalled what Obama said to me in committee after I testified that 2nd time, after I showed him those pictures:
My concern is what appears to be the doctors really don’t care about children who are born with a reasonable prospect of life because they’re so locked in to their pro-abortion views that they would watch an infant that is viable die. That may be your assessment and I don’t see evidence of that.
Someday Obama will see evidence, whether in this world or the next. And like his uncle, he’ll certainly go catatonic when he grasps the full horror of abortion. The difference is, of course, Obama is not one of the liberators, he’s one of the oppressors.
[Photo of Obama speaking at the College of Southern Nevada in N. Las Vegas on May 27 is courtesy of the Associated Press]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Maybe pictures and testimony aren’t enough for individuals such as him.
Perhaps what he needs is a personal invitation to an actual live-birth abortion. Have the freshly extracted , breathing fetus placed in his arms and be told to go stay with it in the closet until it’s cold.
Seriously.
And not just him. I can think of a few others that could stand to use some hands-on learning.
About how many babies were terminated that way in Christ hospital, would you say?
And did you ever get the name of the doc who was responsible for the baby you held that day?
I’ll tell YOU something, Jill. You need to get beyond the blog. This is just candy.
Talk show, made-for-tv movie, something large. No embellishment, just what you’ve seen and what you know.
Wishful thinking, I know.
I’ve always wondered the same thing, Carder…
Poor little soul.
To think. We take them at this age and save them. We also take them at this same age and kill them.
I wonder what doctors who are against abortion must think.
Hi Mike and carder.
Laura, I’ve really had it with you. You’ve been banned twice. The next time you’re out for good. I’m not accepting personal attacks any longer. Get that or leave.
Jill, thank you!!!!! :)
I didn’t see what she said this time. I can just imagine.
“You really don’t have the credentials to be spouting this crap”
what crap Laura? can you explain?
Yes. What crap?
Only the “wanted” little souls get worked on and doctors go to great lengths to help them make it. The “unwanted” do not. Hard to fathom both situations going on in the same hospital at the same time.
The reality of abortion is horrible beyond words.
The problem is, most of the world appears to be unaware of the horror, like they were unaware of the death camps in Germany.
And how many abortions worldwide have been committed since 1973? About 1 billion, right?
The message has to get out. This is definitely a Holocaust.
Nazi’s justified the murder of innocent Jews by demonizing them. It turned into a World War and 50 million lives and trilllions of dollars worth of property were lost.
Abortion justifies the murder of innocent children by stating they’re not human, it’s the mother’s right, the baby invaded the mother’s body, the baby will be poor and abused, etc., etc. What in God’s name will be the result of doing this? We should be afraid, very, very afraid. God have mercy on us.
Hi Carla, Jill, and jasper.
Laura,
Explain exactly what you mean. If you were in Obama’s shoes at that meeting with Jill, how would you vote? where would you come down?
His Man, how true.
Hi Heather,
good morning, how is your baby girl doing?
jasper, she’s great. Hope you and your family are well. She just turned 1 year on the 19th.
Of April.
Hi Heather!!
I think you are awesome and I love your posts! Keep it up!
Carla, thank you.:)
Who can deny that this is just as horrific as the holocaust when looking at those images and imagining that poor baby being left on a shelf to suffer and die? Or imagining a baby to die by having his skull punctured and his brain sucked out, or imagining a baby having to be pulled apart in pieces, or injected in the heart with poison, or being immersed in saline solution till he dies? How can anyone deny that this is just as horrific as the holocaust? I just don’t get it.
I watched Obama glance at the photos, set them aside, and go on to argue against IL’s Born Alive Infant Protection Act.
Obama is pure evil. He disgusts me.
Wonder what credentials are required for “spouting crap”???
The credential of incontinence, perhaps?
Supporting abortion is hard on a person’s mind.
It’s amazing how the NICU staff can get IV lines and feeding tubes into these kids.
If you’re medically minded and want to see a fun video, go to youtube, and search for NICU Crib. It’s really cute. Jill would get a major laugh out of it, I bet.
The teenie preemie enema is an insulin size syringe (no needle) with 0.2ml of glycerin. There ya go….. back to crap again.
Hi Bethany! I agree.
My girlfriend was 27 weeks pregnant. She developed a condition called HELLP. Her baby boy Austin passed away after being delivered by c-section and living for 4 hours. He died on the 23rd of April. Please keep Melissa and Reggie [his mom and dad] in your prayers.
Back to Obama…I really don’t think he’s getting in.
I’ve read that some people believe that pictures of the holocaust are fake. Sound familiar?
So Laura:
Who exactly is the arbiter of abortion?
Are you denying that a baby is killed, terminated by various means in every single abortion?
I think Jill is showing how even babies in distress can be healed and live, therefore, making any abortion unnecessary.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Hey guys,
The most powerful tool in our arsenal agasint abortion is prayer and living redeemed lives.
Please remember to pray today and every day that the Lord end legalized abortion and restore and heal our land, our world.
Also pray that the Lord open people’s hearts to the truth that abortion kills an innocent human life.
Gotta go work now.
“The man, as are all pro-aborts, is schizophrenic and lacks conscience. ”
I was a bit offended by this comment. Schizophrenia is a serious allegation to make against our future President, and the millions and millions of “pro aborts” out there. (like me). I doubt many of us meet the DSM-IV criteria for Schizophrenia.
PS: I have a conscience too.
Yeah, Hal, that one was pretty silly.
Hal & Doug:
Schizophrenia: (Encarta) an offensive term for a state characterized by contradictory or conflicting attitudes, behavior, or qualities.
Nope, unless Obama (or yourselves) supports ALL holocausts (i.e., extermination of human life), then the term is correct.
No need to be offended by it, Hal…embrace it. It’s what you are. (Again, unless you support all holocausts)
What kind of conscience do pro-aborts have?
oxymoron, RSD.
*LOL*, JLM….Hal said he has one…I was just making sure…
RSD,
lol!
“selective conscience”…I love that one!
Nope, unless Obama (or yourselves) supports ALL holocausts (i.e., extermination of human life), then the term is correct.
That’s silly, JLM, since by definition abortion is not a “holocaust” in the same way it’s not “genocide.”
Legal abortion is individual women making their own choices. If there was a law that all pregnancies had to be ended, then you’d have a “holocaust.”
That’s silly, JLM, since by definition abortion is not a “holocaust” in the same way it’s not “genocide.”
Legal abortion is individual women making their own choices. If there was a law that all pregnancies had to be ended, then you’d have a “holocaust.”
No, Doug…it’s not silly. You’re just ignorant of the definition of “holocaust”. No fault of your own, I’m sure. But here…I’ll help you out:
There are two definitions in the dictionary for holcaust. Here they are:
This one is THE holocaust:
Holocaust (noun) : Encarta Dictionary:
Genocide of European Jews and others: the systematic extermination of millions of European Jews, as well as Roma, Slavs, intellectuals, gay people, and political dissidents, by the Nazis and their allies during World War II. In popular usage, Holocaust refers particularly to the extermination of European Jews.
This one IS a holocaust:
Holocaust (noun) : Encarta Dictionary:
1. destruction of human life: wholesale or mass destruction, especially of human life
2. complete destruction by fire: complete consumption by fire, especially of a large number of human beings or animals
3. burnt offering: a religious sacrifice that is totally consumed by fire.
What is the origin of the word “Holocaust”?
The word holocaust comes from the ancient Greek, olos meaning “whole” and kaustos or kautos meaning “burnt.” Appearing as early as the fifth century B.C.E., the term can mean a sacrifice wholly consumed by fire or a great destruction of life, especially by fire.
While the word holocaust, with a meaning of a burnt sacrificial offering, does not have a specifically religious connotation, it appeared widely in religious writings through the centuries, particularly for descriptions of “pagan” rituals involving burnt sacrifices.
In secular writings, holocaust most commonly came to mean “a complete or wholesale destruction,” a connotation particularly dominant from the late nineteenth century through the nuclear arms race of the mid-twentieth century. During this time, the word was applied to a variety of disastrous events ranging from pogroms against Jews in Russia, to the persecution and murder of Armenians by Turks during World War I, to the attack by Japan on Chinese cities, to large-scale fires where hundreds were killed.
Early references to the Nazi murder of the Jews of Europe continued this usage. As early as 1941, writers occasionally employed the term holocaust with regard to the Nazi crimes against the Jews, but in these early cases, they did not ascribe exclusivity to the term. Instead of “the holocaust,” writers referred to “a holocaust,” one of many through the centuries.
Even when employed by Jewish writers, the term was not reserved to a single horrific event but retained its broader meaning of large-scale destruction.
http://www.ushmm.org/research/library/faq/details.php?topic=01#02
As you have stated before, we’re not arguing that it IS human life. We can agree that it is. Look at the definition I bolded again and come back and tell me it’s not a holocaust.
btw…I’ll agree with you that abortion is NOT genocide.
Legal abortion is individual women making their own choices.
No, legal abortion is individual women (and abortionists) making choices for other people.
Amen, Bethany!!!!!
:-)
In the book titled, The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing And the Psychology of Genocide, written by Robert Lifton, he examined and interviewed the medical personnel of the death camps.
Lifton describes a mental condition in the killing doctors as “doubling”. “The division of the self into two functioning wholes, so that a part-self acts as an entire self. An Auschwitz doctor through doubling not only could kill but organize silently, on behave of that evil project, an entire self structure encompassing all aspects of his behavior”
” Doubling then, was the psychological vehicle for the Nazi doctor’s Faustian bargain with the diabolical enviroment in exchange for his contribution to killing, he was offered various psychological and material benefits on behalf of his privledged adaption.”
Another words, two people with entirely different attitudes and characters are operating within one person. One personality at “work”, and one at home and amongst his co-workers. Similar to a common understanding of schizophrenia. The difference being that a person with schizophrenia can’t function or work, while the killing doctors could work and have a conscience towards everything but what they were killing or murdering.
Which brings up why I state that Doug to Hal are what Lifton named “killing profesionals” vs. “professional killers” such as Somg. Killing professionals set up the morality, logistics, methods for killing, and sympathy for the killing or murder of the targeted human beings. Don’t take this personal Hal and Doug, but that is what you are, killing professionals, as described by Lifton. Somg, is a professional killer who does the actual killing on the other hand. Or the abortion doctor and associated medical workers in support of the killing.
Finally, Lifton named the act of doctors killing their patients as, “healing by killing”. In fact, it was a direct quote from one of the Nazi doctors he interviewed. This action is argued by Doug to Hal to the anti-Catholic bigot named SAd Eyed Sally. Abortion is a healing act of a doctor.
But, you can bet a dime to a deutschmark they have never read the works of Lifton. They are to busy defending their dogmatic thinking for the killing/murder of innocent human beings. Or, just as those Nazi Doctors were good people with a good conscience and families, so does Hal, Sad Eyed Sally, and that closed minded dogmatist named Doug, think they are people with a normal working conscience. They have doubled themselves.
In the book titled, The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing And the Psychology of Genocide, written by Robert Lifton, he examined and interviewed the medical personnel of the death camps.
Lifton describes a mental condition in the killing doctors as “doubling”. “The division of the self into two functioning wholes, so that a part-self acts as an entire self. An Auschwitz doctor through doubling not only could kill but organize silently, on behave of that evil project, an entire self structure encompassing all aspects of his behavior”
” Doubling then, was the psychological vehicle for the Nazi doctor’s Faustian bargain with the diabolical enviroment in exchange for his contribution to killing, he was offered various psychological and material benefits on behalf of his privledged adaption.”
Another words, two people with entirely different attitudes and characters are operating within one person. One personality at “work”, and one at home and amongst his co-workers. Similar to a common understanding of schizophrenia. The difference being that a person with schizophrenia can’t function or work, while the killing doctors could work and have a conscience towards everything but what they were killing or murdering.
Which brings up why I state that Doug to Hal are what Lifton named “killing profesionals” vs. “professional killers” such as Somg. Killing professionals set up the morality, logistics, methods for killing, and sympathy for the killing or murder of the targeted human beings. Don’t take this personal Hal and Doug, but that is what you are, killing professionals, as described by Lifton. Somg, is a professional killer who does the actual killing on the other hand. Or the abortion doctor and associated medical workers in support of the killing.
Finally, Lifton named the act of doctors killing their patients as, “healing by killing”. In fact, it was a direct quote from one of the Nazi doctors he interviewed. This action is argued by Doug to Hal to the anti-Catholic bigot named SAd Eyed Sally. Abortion is a healing act of a doctor.
But, you can bet a dime to a deutschmark they have never read the works of Lifton. They are to busy defending their dogmatic thinking for the killing/murder of innocent human beings. Or, just as those Nazi Doctors were good people with a good conscience and families, so does Hal, Sad Eyed Sally, and that closed minded dogmatist named Doug, think they are people with a normal working conscience. They have doubled themselves.
That is very interesting, Yllas.
Well Bethany,
Soon, quite soon, Hal will be writing, directed by his conscience, how abortion is a act of healing.
Dogma Doug will be simply writing his usual Nope and No statment, while spreading myths and tales about abortion always being practiced before “written history”! This myth making comes from being unable to think critically, and from wishing your dogma is immortal and beyond time.
As for the conscience and Hal; when a prospective course of action comes to mind,(abortion decision time) and it gives rise to anxiety and disquiet, one must inquire, in which direction is this anxiety leading. Does it tend to inhibit or assist what I KNOW in GOOD conscience is the BETTER part of me?
The better part of Hal’s conscience is being a killer. The anxiety of the decision to kill is quieted and then defended by the better part of Hal’s conscience. That’s why Hal comes here, to defend his conscience which assist the better part of himself in killing human beings, and which Hal, is spreading amongst his families conscience.
OTH, just as some the Nazi doctors realized their rationalizations for healing by killing, were not the better part of them, and stopped defending their doubled, Faustian self.
I do believe one poster here(Carla?) has admitted that her decision,guided by her consceince, was a act that was not the better part of herself, upon examining her conscience.
That I admire. The better part of herself is now for a livin’.
yllas,
I agree. Good post!
I agree too.
yllas, that’s silly. If anybody is like a “Nazi” here it’s you. You’re the one with the dogma. If you’re going to stay in “troll” mode, fine.
Old Dogma Doug,
Now your favorite word is silly. You know, your “yllasitis” is flaring up again Dogma Doug. Is it time to instant message your Aol troll friends and have them make some silly statments about me? AH, being a puppet master with a closed, dogmatic mind attracts old unrepentant hippies, and other such vandals.
Gee Dogma Doug, you already wrote your for a killing in response to one of my post, which you must have saved to your hard drive to paste and copy to this message board. I mean, you save post from Terry G, and other puppets of yours, so you may repost them to this board. Search your hard drive for Doug + killing + yllas, it’s bound to be there Dogma Doug. Well, “yllasitis” does affect the memory of those that preach for the killing of human beings.
You admited your for a killing, and now you are denying that your for killing human beings? What is it? The word “professional”, that you disagree with in my statment about you being a “professional killer” as described by Lifton?
But, I agree that discussing such matters in a book with a person who obviously has not, and will not read Lifton’s work on doctors that heal by killing is difficult. Especially with a person whose mind is closed and infected with yllasitis and knows, “that on one has a good argument against abortion, they just think they do.”
Well, let’s give you a break Dogma Doug, your a “killing amatuer”, and of course one that has never done the actual killing from being nothing more then a weak person unable to actually kill those human beings.
Hey, there you go Dogma Doug, would you change your profession of being a killing professional preacher, and kill as a abortionist does?
Most of the time yllas I have to read and reread your posts!! You make me think. I agree with your post at 3:29.
I am for livin now that I have realized the horror of what I have done. Killing my own child through abortion.
It’s so sad, but I found out that the hospital where I delivered my children also performs abortions. You would think that I would have a choice in not wanting a murderer to touch me or my baby.
Nope, yllas, it’s nothing more than you still being in troll mode.
Anybody could make up a bunch of silly stories about other people and pretend it’s “rational,” when it’s not. If anything it’s just good that it’s you.
“If everybody who claimed to be “pro-life” was like yllas, then women would not have to worry about the issue, and pro-choicers would be pretty much uncontested in argument.”
Doug,
Nope, Yllas speaks the truth about abortion, that’s what matters.
It’s so sad, but I found out that the hospital where I delivered my children also performs abortions. You would think that I would have a choice in not wanting a murderer to touch me or my baby.
Posted by: heather at May 28, 2008 5:14 PM
I would do everything I could to find a pro-life doctor at a hospital that doesn’t do abortions, and be sure to let them know why you are choosing them over the others. I would NEVER let a doctor who was not pro-life touch me!
As of 5 p.m. Pacific Time:
Glad to see Lieberman up there, though it’s funny to see him in with Republicans. A good guy for social issues.
Romney makes sense, as somebody else noted – we’ve got some real economic problems (to say the least).
Surprising how many “other” votes there are.
But, Huckabee? Good grief, what a loon. Be careful, you people voting for him, I’m gonna sic Rae on you heh heh heh.
Yllas speaks the truth about abortion, that’s what matters.
Very funny, Janet.
I’ll be darned… Huckabee got a vote from Germany. The usual pattern is for Europeans to see religious matters as properly between a person and their church/faith, and NOT involved with politics.
Doug, Doug, Dogma Doug,
So the typical dopey “nope” answer refers to your not changing from being a killing professional, to a “professional killer”, which a abortion doctor is?
Is that not being a cowardly lion to your dogmatic faith in the murder of innocent human beings?
Given a chance to return to your youth and study to be a doctor that heals by killin’, would you not be able to contribute to your faith and dogma for healing by killing innocent human beings much more, then just preaching for the killin’?
OR, are you only able of being a person who organizes, propagandizes, neuters the better part of the conscience of human beings for your dogmatic closed mind for the killin?
Just as the better part of Hal is for a killin’, so is the better part of you, Dogma Doug, for a killin. But, evidently you lack the character and faith in your personal dogma to perform the killing by your hands Dogma Doug, if that dopey “nope” word is to be understood as a answer to my question; would change from being a simple killing professional(preacher) to a professional killer?.
“Be careful, you people voting for him, I’m gonna sic Rae on you heh heh heh.”
@Doug: *growls as menacingly as a wee little pomeranian*
I’ll be darned… Huckabee got a vote from Germany. The usual pattern is for Europeans to see religious matters as properly between a person and their church/faith, and NOT involved with politics.
Gotta love those pro-life Catholics, voting for what they believe in. Munich and Southern Germany (Bavaria) are traditionally Catholic.
Pope Benedict XVI is from that area.
Oh Jill. We pro-choicers know exactly what abortion is. We just think forced pregnancy is worse.
Oh come on, reality. Nobody forces women to be pregnant or even get pregnant for that matter. You should pick a new tag name….I’m thinking denial would work better for you.
I believe that’s General Eisenhower in the background.
You’d think a couple of battle hardened generals such as Eisenhower and Patton had seen it all. Apparently not. These camps horrified them.
They were so enraged at what they saw and that local townspeople denied any knowledge of what was going on that they ordered every man, woman, child, old people, the sick, to march through the camps. American soldiers stood there guns aimed at the townspeople to make sure they marched through.
Last nite the movie “Voyage of the Damned” was on. It was the true account of German Jewish refugees “allowed” to flee Germany to Cuba in 1939 on an ocean liner. It was all a ruse. Cuba refused them admission, not that they ever planned to accept them, and the US refused to even let them enter our territorial waters. The coast guard made sure no one jumped ship. I don’t believe for a minute Franklin Roosevelt had no clue as to their fate on return to Germany. Thankfully some European countries took them in though their refuge would only be temporary. These countries would eventually be overrun by Nazi Germany. Out of the 947 former passengers, 600 would die in concentration camps. Its no thanks to our former president that any survived, and that so many died.
Carla.
Deep down, where no one can influence your decisions,so called choices( a word that makes one think that no decision has been reached), and conscience, something was put there that makes you understand the “better part of you” was being lost to another “part of you”.
That part of you that rejects killin is where your soul meets your heart, and a conversation was held. Some say it is where you talk to God and plead your reasons for the decisions one makes in life.
Solzhenitsyn wrote on the subject of the conscience or heart with some powerful words that make me think of Dogma Doug everytime I read them.
“It was granted to me to carry away on my bent back, which nearly broke beneath its load, this essential experience; how a human being becomes evil and how good. In the intoxification of youthful successes I had felt myself to be infallible, and I was therefore cruel. In the surfeit of power, I was a murderer and an opppressor. In my most evil moments I was convinced I was doing good and was well supplied with systematic arguments. It was only when I was laying there on rotting prison straw that I sensed within myself, the first stirring of good.
Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line seperating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties, but right through every human heart, and all hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil”.
Dogma Doug is that infallible, dogmatic mind, that systematic argument, backed by “knowing no one has a good argument against abortion”, and is convinced he is doing good by appealing to the better part of himself for abortion. Hence, a killer with a good conscience, made from the better part of himself.
To me Carla, your “stirring of good” began similar to that of Solzhenitsyn, and your appeal to the better part of your conscience was answered, by knowing the better part of yourself is for life. God loves you Carla, as a protector and defender of his glorious beauty made visible, by that tiny, weak, human being.
What matters here is that Barack Hussein Obama is running for the presidency of the United States. He presents himself as the great healer and unifier, and yet he is so far out of the mainstream on abortion he is in the extreme left one percent of a bell curve. His version of reality is so sadly distorted as to justify denying basic medical care to living infant human beings.
We can understand the pro-abort media ignoring this because they really feel exactly as he does. But how much longer is the mainstream lib media going to continue making light of his embarrassing gaffes and fibs? Imagine if McCain misstated where one of his uncles was when he really wasn’t, or that he had visited nearly all 57 states, or that he was proud to be remembering many of the fallen heroes, many of which were “here today.” For a solid month all we would be hearing about is the man is senile. But with Obama hardly anything is said, at least for now.
Doug-
ugh, don’t even get me started on Huckabee, though I’m kind of hoping McCain chooses him. His numbers take a free fall against either Clinton or Obama if Huckabee is on the ticket, but I dont think he or his staff are that dumb.
Dogma Doug
Heh – once again, yllas, you have it wrong. You’re the one with the dogma. You can have it.
You are not the first mentally ill person to post things on the internet.
“If everybody who claimed to be “pro-life” was like yllas, then women would not have to worry about the issue, and pro-choicers would be pretty much uncontested in argument.”
“Be careful, you people voting for him, I’m gonna sic Rae on you heh heh heh.”
@Doug: *growls as menacingly as a wee little pomeranian*
Rae, I will invoke the power of Frogerov to aid you.
“It was granted to me to carry away on my bent back, which nearly broke beneath its load, this essential experience; how a human being becomes evil and how good. In the intoxification of youthful successes I had felt myself to be infallible, and I was therefore cruel. In the surfeit of power, I was a murderer and an opppressor. In my most evil moments I was convinced I was doing good and was well supplied with systematic arguments.”
Good quote yllas. It’s not evil to take the side of pregnant women over those who would try and force their opinions on them. If there is “evil” here, it may be that which forces you away from rational discussion and into your absurd fantasies.
ugh, don’t even get me started on Huckabee, though I’m kind of hoping McCain chooses him. His numbers take a free fall against either Clinton or Obama if Huckabee is on the ticket, but I dont think he or his staff are that dumb.
Dan, I don’t know – Huckabee would bring some people in as well as drive some away.
This morning I saw that both Obama and Clinton have leads in polls against McCain, though they are certainly not insurmountable. Still amazing to me that after Bush Jr., the Democrats are not a slam-dunk against a pro-war candidate.
Anyway, we got us a horse race.
Munich and Southern Germany (Bavaria) are traditionally Catholic. Pope Benedict XVI is from that area.
Janet, good food from over there. Does the Pope drink beer?
yllas, sometimes I also have to read your posts twice, but they are good and informative!!:)
Oh come on, reality. Nobody forces women to be pregnant or even get pregnant for that matter. You should pick a new tag name….I’m thinking denial would work better for you.
Posted by: Elizabeth at May 28, 2008 9:55 PM——————– THANK YOU!
Heather, I’m sorry to hear about your friend’s baby. They are in my thoughts and prayers.
Doug, I would bet the Pope likes his German bier.
they are good and informative
:: laughing ::
Janet, thank you. She had been suffering from headaches and nosebleeds. Her midwife told her “Don’t worry.” “It’s just stress.” ???? I told her to get to an ER fast!! Next thing I knew, she was in ICU. She was there for a week and they did all they could to get her BP down and stabalize her. In the end, an emergency c-section had to be performed. Austin Micheal passed away.
ICU for a week and a recovery floor for a week and a half. She almost died too.
And there you go Dogma Doug, getting all worked up about your dogma again.
What is amazing is how much your dogmatic preaching for killin’ runs your life.
Is it not absolutely true to you Dogma Doug, that no one has a good argument against abortion, that they just think they do, Doug?
Yes or no?
Dogma; a authoritative principle,belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.
What is obvious, is your dogma for killin’ has affected your reality, Dogma Doug. There is a seperation between your mind and reality, caused by not being able to admit to such a simple fact that your a dogmatic for the killin’ of human beings. Why is it soo difficult to admit your dogma for abortion Doug? It is making truth and reality seperate in your mind and allow you to think your not a dogmatist for abortion. Something in you can’t admit your a dogmatist. You know it is absolutely true that abortion is a absolutely natural act of human beings before written history. That is dogma Doug’s words. Plain and simple. And that is true that killing/murder is a natural act of humans in your reality based on making humans into natural born killers/murderers. Your a medieval mind,Dogma Doug, similar to what your parent’s religion taught you as a young child, but was unable to grasp that principle of them worshiping a timeless murdering machine, and the continuation of your parent’s religion through your dogmatism for abortion allows you to appeal to their conscience also for the killing of human beings. Your parent’s still live through you Dogma Doug, through their thoughts put in your head that pre-ordained a future murder. God knows all Dogma Doug. Your surely not Rousseau and his philosophy of natural goodness of mankind, Dogma Doug.
You have written to me that no one has a good argument against your undeniable “absolute truth” for abortion, and those that think they do, are what Doug? Silly? A Nope? A No to you and your closed mind for the killin.
You write all the time that no one can prove a negative, and bait yourself into thinking every person here is trying to prove a negative simply from your dogmatic closed mind controlling your reality and absolute truth.
Your psychologically exactly what Lifton described as a “doubled” human being. When you made that decision to become a free and unpaid preacher for a killin’, you appealed to your conscience and have quieted any anxiety about killin’ human beings that you have. Knowing the better part of youself Doug is for a killing has now become a dogma. But, you just can’t admit to the fact your “for the killin” is a dogmatism that makes you write such silly words on matters of your dogmatism.
Od course I am for a livin’ and that is a absolute truth for me Dogma Doug, your for the killin of human beings by the act of abortion, and that is a absolute truth to you Dogma Doug. Your a dogmatic closed minded abortion preacher. A killin’ professional.
yllas, beyond your lies and taking things our of context, there’s nothing there.
Is it not absolutely true to you Dogma Doug, that no one has a good argument against abortion, that they just think they do, Doug?
It’s my opinion, in response to a question, which I gave honestly, unlike you.
As I’ve said before, no, there is not a good enough argument against it, to the extent that we would take away the freedom that women now have in the matter. I think it was you that asked my opinion, and I gave it.
The dogma is all yours, for whatever reasons you have.
Thank you yllas. God loves you too.
God loves Doug too.
Here we go Dogma Doug. Nope, your statement that NO ONE has a good argument against abortion, they just think they do, is as dogmatic a statement as one can write and think.
Your a closed minded dogmatist with nothing,no one, anyone, to change your faith in killing human beings in the womb.
Let us back up and have you answer one question at a time.
Does anyone have a good argument against abortion?
To which you replied Dogma Doug; No one has a good argument against abortion, they just think they do.
Now, since you stated that NO ONE has a good argument against abortion, that is a ABSOLUTE statement, with no doubts or agnosticism exhibited in your written statement.
Do you believe that NO ONE has a good arguement against abortion is a truthful statement by you Dogma Doug? Of course you do, and since you already stated that NO ONE has a argument against abortion, which is a ABSOLUTE statement, your committed to the philosophy of absolute truth by your own statements you wrote.
Now, go back and read the definition of dogma Doug, and it should become clear to you, that your faith in killing by abortion, is based in a personal dogma.
Your supporting reasons that are enumerated by making human beings into separate entities/things by separating the mind/body from each other, are jjust your reasons for a killin’. Name as many reasons for your a killin human beings, just as those Nazi doctors did, but it is clear that when one confronts your dogmatism for killin’, you deny your own words are based on being a preacher of absolute truth.
Your a dogmatic, closed minded killing professional with the mind of a typical dogmatist who knows that it is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, that no one has a good argument, against the killin’ of human beings. Yes or no Dogma Doug?
You really do have a complex of being inferior somewhere, and somehow, in your past life history Dogma Doug. Everyone here knows your a dogmatist for the killing of human beings, but you. But, the worst part of you, is denying your own words by thinking they can be humpty dumptyed into meaning anything you wish them to be. Really, Dogma Doug, what is soo evil in being a dogmatist for abortion? Somg would understand the compliment, what is your problem Dogma Doug?
“Nobody forces women to be pregnant or even get pregnant for that matter.”
Wish that were true. Might be mostly true in the US, but not universally, and in the rest of the world, even less. Read A Thousand Splendid Suns and see if you can say the same thing (By the way, not to spoil the book, but you could call it “pro life” as one character decides not to abort and has a child)
Your welcome Carla.
And of course God loves Dogma Doug too. And here is how God loves Doug.
Turning away from God would not be a defect except in a nature meant to be with God. Even a evil will then is prove of the goodness of nature. Just as God is the supremely good creator of good natures, so he is the most just ruler of evil wills, so that even though evil wills make evil use of good natures, God makes a good use of evil wills. St. Augustine.
God loves Doug. He is making good use of his evil will devoted to making a evil use of his good nature. As a just ruler of evil wills, God uses Doug and his dogmatism daily.
It is fun poking a dogmatist about his dogmatic statements, and having the dogmatist deny his absolute truthful writings, are evidently not absolutely truthful enough for the dogmatist to admit his own writings are absolutely true.
I mean, I write a absolute truthful statement that I am not for a killin of innocent human beings, and this evil will, being used by God, can’t admit to his own writings are nothing more then the opposite absolute truth for a killin’.
Yllas, I think your last two posts are really, really well spoken.
I am glad you are here, yllas!
Hi Bethany!! :)
Hi Carla! I’m just heading out to the grocery store. Hope you’re having a good day. :)
You too, Yllas and Doug. ;-)
Heather 7:36am
First my condolences to you and your friend. This is very tragic. Thankfully for her you saw a serious problem and got her to a hospital. I’m convinced that saved her life. I cannot imagine what that midwife was thinking! Headaches and nosebleeds are just stress? That woman should be hauled before the licensing and regulation board.
What we see here is a woman who’s health and life were at risk. Did she need Tiller or some other late term hack? No. She had only to go to the hospital to get the care she needed. Taking the baby early through c-section was necessary to preserve her life, and was done. Tragically the baby did not survive.
It puts the kabosh to the argument that late term abortionists are needed to save women’s health and lives.
Heather,
I am so sorry that your friend lost her precious little boy. Praying for her.
your statement that NO ONE has a good argument against abortion, they just think they do, is as dogmatic a statement as one can write and think.
No, yllas. Somebody – I think it was you – asked for my opinion and I gave it.
Do you think anybody “has a good argument for abortion”? Good grief, are you simple?
Any number of women have good arguments, for themselves, against abortion. I don’t pretend my opinion is somehow “external” or “absolute.”
If we are talking about that which applies to everybody, then no, I don’t think anybody has a good enough argument against it to the extent that we take away the legal freedom that women have now.
For whatever reasons, you cannot discuss rationally, and have to go into this fantasy-childish – lying – take things out of context – ad hominem mode.
It’s nothing new.
“If everybody who claimed to be “pro-life” was like yllas, then women would not have to worry about the issue, and pro-choicers would be pretty much uncontested in argument.”
Yllas, I think your last two posts are really, really well spoken
:: snort ::
Yeah, if one likes lies, stuff taken out of context, childish ad hominems, etc.
Bethany, yeah, not a bad day, anyway – am having to procure and set up a new coriolis force mass flow meter and a remote transmitter for it, fun, huh?
Bethany, yeah, not a bad day, anyway – am having to procure and set up a new coriolis force mass flow meter and a remote transmitter for it, fun, huh?
Posted by: Doug at May 29, 2008 4:11 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I had to demonstrate coriolis effect in High School so my Dad set me up with an Eskimo YoYo.
My presentation was breathtaking…
Mary, Carla, all, thanks for the kind words. She is holding up quite well despite it all. She has a 5 year old son who shares the same birthday as my daughter. April 19th. She says that sometimes the grief in unbearable, but she has to go on for her other son. I can’t really even find the words to say, so I usally just try to be a good listener. I mean, what on earth do you say?
From what I have read, HELLP is a very rare syndrome. It may return with future pregnancies. Melissa required a few blood transfusions as well. Mary, I agree that the midwife should have been more careful!
Also, Melissa was kind enough to share some pictures with me. Austin resembled the baby in Jill’s pictures. They wrapped him in plastic and then a blue blanket. The hospital did the best they could. They even made tiny footprints in ink. BTW, does anyone know how Lauren’s friend is doing? I understand her friend’s baby also passed away. I was so sorry to read that.
Laura: I had to demonstrate coriolis effect in High School so my Dad set me up with an Eskimo YoYo. My presentation was breathtaking…
Sweet. It’s not that easy to get those things going.
But it was probably easier than summoning a hurricane, eh?
That baby is fugly