Breaking news: South Dakota abortion-free yesterday
KELO News reported that the only abortion mill in SD, Planned Parenthood of Sioux Falls, did not abort yesterday in response to a newly enforced 2005 abortion law, which I reported on July 18.
Yesterday was the 1st day mill workers were to read a script to mothers at least 2 hours before a scheduled abortion stating “the abortion will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique, living human being,” and “abortion increases the risk of suicide ideation and suicide.” The law also states mothers must sign that they understand.
Here is the KELO video report on yesterday’s non-goings on…
Both LifeNews.com and WorldNetDaily.com spoke to pro-life sidewalk counselors on the scene confirming PP’s doors were locked.
In fact, PP did not even notify scheduled patients it was closing for the day, demonstrating as we all know it is a nonprofessional, low class operation that disrespects women. Reported the Voices Carry blog:
Five women arrived for appointments and found the doors were closed and locked. Hmm. All eventually left, one came back, left again. One went to the Alpha Center and got the straight scoop on other options besides killing her baby. Now she’ll be able to make a better choice. Another talked to one of the Bound4Life (SD chapter) prayer team members praying at the clinic at 8:15 this morning and she was weeping. She said she had an appointment for an abortion at 8:30 AM. Mondays are typically busy days there – full parking lot. Today, it was very quiet. Two staff cars were in the lot but no one came to the door….
The two staff cars were still there at 1 PM but no one brought in the doctor as is typical for today. All the flights into Sioux Falls this morning were on schedule. [JLS note: This PP has to fly its abortionists in, making it difficult to develop a dr/patient relationship, to say the least.]…
Locals will remember the defiant banner they hung out in the fall of ’06 – “THESE DOORS WILL REMAIN OPEN.” Folks, they were closed today. They’ll probably open tomorrow, but what we are seeing is the courts start to shut this dark regime down. The media tried to get into PP to do a story on them complying with the 8th Circuit ruling and I’m told that request was denied.
I called the Sioux Falls PP 30 minutes ago, and this is how my brief conversation with scheduler Lisa went:
Jill: Are you still conducting abortions?
Lisa: Yep.
Jill: So the news reports were incorrect?
Lisa: They must be, yes.
No blog or news reports on today yet. Will keep you posted.
Meanwhile, dear Jessica at Feministing needs to retake Biology 101, if she ever completed high school. Responded Jessica to the law and court ruling: “So basically, they have to provide patients with false information.”
[HT: intern Colleen W.; photo courtesy of Voices Carry]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
“”So basically, they have to provide patients with false information.”
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So, basically, the US gov’t is telling abortion providers to lie to their patients? Get real!!!
Hooyah for South Dakota!!! You’ll be the tip of the spear on the fight against abortion and PP.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/mn-nd-sd/images-from-our-past.htm
Happy 80th Birthday PP MN, SD, ND. It’s time to retire.
Check out the link above for “Images From Our Past”
The first image is accompanied by “Planned Parenthood, Save Lives – Saves Homes.
Huh?
Jill verified that the news reports were false and that PP was still performing abortions. Yet the story of “abortion free SD” ran as if she didn’t know.
“KELO News reported that the only abortion mill in SD, Planned Parenthood of Sioux Falls, did not abort yesterday in response to a newly enforced 2005 abortion law.”
Reread the whole story.They did not abort yesterday. Should we believe a receptionist who says they are performing abortions today? I think I’ll wait for Jill’s update.
I see, the Press knows more than the receptionist who actually works there. Or maybe, they didn’t perform abortions yesterday. but are again now. If that’s what happened, hardly a major news story.
Maybe the doctor missed his/her flight.
“Maybe the doctor missed his/her flight.
Posted by: Hal at July 22, 2008 1:55 PM”
————————————
The abortionist is probably missing a lot more than just a flight.
Hal:1:55: I see, the Press knows more than the receptionist who actually works there. Or maybe, they didn’t perform abortions yesterday. but are again now. If that’s what happened, hardly a major news story. Maybe the doctor missed his/her flight.
Posted by: Hal at July 22, 2008 1:55 PM
Silly me, I forgot, none of Jill’s stories on abortion are newsworthy (sarcasm alert). :^I
Silly me, I forgot, none of Jill’s stories on abortion are newsworthy (sarcasm alert). :^I
Posted by: Janet at July 22, 2008 2:45 PM
If abortions have stopped in South Dakota because of this law, that’s newsworthy. If they didn’t, and everything is still normal, it’s not. Missing one day for unknown reasons is not a huge story in my book, but if we can use it for baseless speculation, then I’m all for it.
A day without abortion is like a breath of fresh air in the spiritual battle for souls.
We’ll never know what tomorrow brings but we cherish what we have today.
It might not be a huge thing for you, Hal…but it is for us, pro-lifers.
I hope the report that they are closed is true and they will remain closed. When they are closed, women can actually get **factual information** about the child’s growth. PP denies them this scientific information, along with not allowing them to actually see the ultrasound.
I am happy that they closed, if only for a day. Very good news.
Janet,
Interesting link. I just love the 1965 logo
“The children of the world deserve to be planned”
I guess I am undeserving of life according to PP. Good to know. I was an unplanned pregnancy and a total surprise to my mother when she found out at 5 months she was carrying me. (she was falsely lead to believe by her doctor that nursing would prevent pregnancy.)
I wonder how many PP workers or the marketing genius who thought that slogan up was a “planned pregnancy”
Sandy,
Five months? Talk about a short pregnancy! I understand to prevent pregnancy, a mother must be nursing with absolutely no other supplements. I’m not sure how true that is.
How about Planned Parenthood’s third slogan “Every Child a Wanted Child”. The picture is a “drawing of a heart-shaped symbol with the outstretched hand of both father and mother encompassing a smiling baby.” (Imagine the picture up-side-down and it looks like two hands reaching inside a uterus for the baby like an abortion. Ugh.)
“Runge (the artist) chose a modern approach to emphasize the 20th century attitude of a child not just happening, but actually wanted.”
Where is God in this picture? Apparently not modern enough for PP.
Janet, Sandy:
Ecological breastfeeding does have ovulation delaying effects.
Cultural breastfeeding does not.
So PP wasn’t open yesterday, but, unfortunately, that doesn’t mean that someone somewhere in SD did not have an abortion by illegal or unsanitary/unsafe means.
In light of this, I certainly hope that women will regain access to the clinic soon.
Danielle: 5:36: So PP wasn’t open yesterday, but, unfortunately, that doesn’t mean that someone somewhere in SD did not have an abortion by illegal or unsanitary/unsafe means.
Perhaps she changed her mind when she realized she had no where else to go. She can always give up the baby for adoption, to a couple who can’t have their own.
Danielle, most women are law abiding citizens, and do not seek out illegal procedures. However, even though suicide is against the law, a few people will still kill themselves anyway, and a very few will try to kill their babies illegally anyway.
We can’t protect people from themselves. We can only try to protect innocent babies from selfish mothers who want to kill them.
Sandy,
Five months? Talk about a short pregnancy! I understand to prevent pregnancy, a mother must be nursing with absolutely no other supplements. I’m not sure how true that is.
Posted by: Janet at July 22, 2008 5:21 PM
…………………………………………………
For the first six months if menses has not returned and the woman is nursing around the clock. Once the baby starts sleeping through the night, all bets are off. It begs the question how many women have the energy or desire to have sex when sleep deprived for so many months.
My son didn’t sleep through the night until he was 9 months old. I was a total zombie.
Dolye, you don’t believe for a minute that anyone is deterred from suicide because it’s illegal do you?
Some women would be deterred from Abortion if it were illegal. Others would find an illegal way to accomplish it. I think most would view an abortion ban as a grossly unjust law which they would be within their rights to ignore or circumvent.
I was watching tv the other day with somone pretty middle of the road politically. They mentioned that McCain wanted to overrule Roe v. Wade. She reacted with horror that anyone “mainstream” would consider such a position.
Yes, Hal. It is “grossly unjust” to outlaw the killing of another human being. How ever could we survive without the sacred right to kill our own offspring?
I thought some might find offense at that term. But, trust me, many people think the “right to abortion” is a HUGE ISSUE.
Hey Sally, my younger sister didn’t sleep through the night until she was over a year old.
We seriously had to MOVE because she was driving everyone bonkers.
Yeah, Sally…I also notice that my comment about female sexuality/the purpose thereof/enjoyment thereof and harsh opinions of females who sometimes enjoy sex purely for their own physical need or desire fulfillment went largely ignored by the majority here. I think you wrote the only direct response. My son is exhausting. I have many goals, aspirations, and obligations to attend to, and he still takes up a lot of my time nursing…I don’t like to think about the stress that would be inflicted on my marriage right now if my husband were actually here, I was trying to keep him AND my son happy, and was having to worry about breastfeeding 24/7 just so I didn’t have to get pregnant again so soon. If I was a praying type, I’d say God bless contraception. But Hal, I think very few people actually look at a law they don’t personally agree with and say, “Oh well. Screw them.” and do as they please anyway. I still stop at traffic lights at 3am on an empty street, because you never know who else is going to pull up. Those laws are there for a reason, and in this case, they’d be there not only to keep a baby’s life protected, but to keep a mother alive. “No abortion.” means just that, no matter who’s doing it, and 9 times out of 10, abortion is NEVER a necessity, and if it ever was for medical reasons, as ABSOLUTELY RARE as that was, they were still being done by medical professionals before RvW.
Hal, I understand that there are many people who find the “right” to abortion to be sacred. It doesn’t change the fact that I am horrified that anyone could find it “grossly unjust” to not be able to kill the child that her own actions created.
If anything, it is entirely just.
I am not calling for “pregnancy as punishment” as I’m sure I’ll be accused, but rather explaining the logical conclusion to certain acts.
Yeah, Sally…I also notice that my comment about female sexuality/the purpose thereof/enjoyment thereof and harsh opinions of females who sometimes enjoy sex purely for their own physical need or desire fulfillment went largely ignored by the majority here. I think you wrote the only direct response. My son is exhausting. I have many goals, aspirations, and obligations to attend to, and he still takes up a lot of my time nursing…I don’t like to think about the stress that would be inflicted on my marriage right now if my husband were actually here, I was trying to keep him AND my son happy, and was having to worry about breastfeeding 24/7 just so I didn’t have to get pregnant again so soon. If I was a praying type, I’d say God bless contraception. But Hal, I think very few people actually look at a law they don’t personally agree with and say, “Oh well. Screw them.” and do as they please anyway. I still stop at traffic lights at 3am on an empty street, because you never know who else is going to pull up. Those laws are there for a reason, and in this case, they’d be there not only to keep a baby’s life protected, but to keep a mother alive. “No abortion.” means just that, no matter who’s doing it, and 9 times out of 10, abortion is NEVER a necessity, and if it ever was for medical reasons, as ABSOLUTELY RARE as that was, they were still being done by medical professionals before RvW.
Posted by: xalisae at July 22, 2008 6:56 PM
…………………………………………….
My son was born in England during the Embassy Hostage situation in Iran. I was an AF wife. The base was on high alert and my husband was pulling 12 hour shifts with few days off. I also had a 3 year old to care for. I don’t know how I didn’t burn the house down or something. I was beyond exhausted. Sleep walking through life. Son was allergic to cows milk and alternative formulas were becoming available but too expensive. So I nursed for an hour every other hour many days. To expect any woman to do this is crazy.
First you say that no abortion means no abortion then you say that abortions were available. I don’t think that you have a realistic concept of gestational medical care before RvW. Fetal diagnostic equipment was in the stone age. Fetal demise and fatal deformities were next to impossible to detect. These conditions were far from rare. Doctors were not trained to perform safe abortions. Most women were seen by GPs. Not OB/Gyn specialists. Not that any would have been trained to perform illegal procedures.
C-sections were much more dangerous than they are today. Anesthesia was not an exact science. For a woman facing a health emergency, a c-section was often a death sentence.
Women were forced to carry dead fetii until their body decided to deliver them. My mother carried one for 4 months after demise. It was born in rotting pieces. Giving birth to a hydrocephalic could and did split women wide open if not caught in time to do a dangerous and often deadly c-section.
I find it very interesting how the medical community became so much more interested in maternal and gestational health care after women’s right to govern their reproductive organs was returned to them. Those ‘icky’ abortion procedures were developed to preserve the life and reproductive integrity of women as well as an option in controlling if and when children are desired.
Hey Sally, my younger sister didn’t sleep through the night until she was over a year old.
We seriously had to MOVE because she was driving everyone bonkers.
Posted by: Wichita Linewoman at July 22, 2008 6:38 PM
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No kidding? Thin walls?
So Sally…given the circumstances you went through with your baby and your 3 year old, which, granted, were not pleasant and no doubt extremely hard for you, (and not circumstances you would wish on anyone else, as you said) what is it you would have wanted in that case? To be able to just kill the baby and your 3 year old to “solve everything” ?????
Obviously you survived the whole ordeal. Are you not glad that you did???
Jill, that’s impossible. Everybody knows that incremental laws are evil and don’t work. Hasn’t the last 35 years proven that?
Five months? Talk about a short pregnancy! I understand to prevent pregnancy, a mother must be nursing with absolutely no other supplements. I’m not sure how true that is.
posted by Janet
For the first six months if menses has not returned and the woman is nursing around the clock. Once the baby starts sleeping through the night, all bets are off. It begs the question how many women have the energy or desire to have sex when sleep deprived for so many months.
My son didn’t sleep through the night until he was 9 months old. I was a total zombie.
Posted by: Sally at July 22, 2008 5:55 PM
As I’ve stated earlier on other threads, you must breastfeed ON DEMAND – and this means at night too. It is not the milk production that prevents ovulation but the nipple stimulation. And every woman is different.
When I use to teach NFP this was the time many couples finally came in for instruction – a difficult time to learn to be sure.
They didn’t want to go on the pill again.
Well I’ve got you all beat because my first child was a monster – he never slept through the night until I got pregnant when he was 18 mons old. He stopped nursing at 20 mons when the milk turned salty.
OKAY. We have violent thunderstorm heading right for us. Showing up on radar as huge with lot’s of rain and lightning.
This is gonna be FUN!
Women were forced to carry dead fetii until their body decided to deliver them. My mother carried one for 4 months after demise. It was born in rotting pieces. Giving birth to a hydrocephalic could and did split women wide open if not caught in time to do a dangerous and often deadly c-section.
I find it very interesting how the medical community became so much more interested in maternal and gestational health care after women’s right to govern their reproductive organs was returned to them. Those ‘icky’ abortion procedures were developed to preserve the life and reproductive integrity of women as well as an option in controlling if and when children are desired.
Posted by: Sally at July 22, 2008 7:53 PM
THis is utter nonsense!
What a pile of crock.
You always use the hard cases for promoting abortion.
Please stop. NOW.
How many women have rotting babies inside them.
We all KNOW these are not the reasons women are having abortions. They are using abortion as back up.
I’m gonna go now. Too MUCH lightning.
Yeah, Sally…I also notice that my comment about female sexuality/the purpose thereof/enjoyment thereof and harsh opinions of females who sometimes enjoy sex purely for their own physical need or desire fulfillment went largely ignored by the majority here.
Hi X, I addressed your comment in the thread under the cartoon.
Hal,
Had abortion been illegal when you and the wife were unexpectedly pregnant, would you and her have attempted to illegally abort?
Well, I’ve taken the pill, and I’ve been a pregnant/breastfeeding mother, and the latter killed my libido more than the former. But honestly, if I said that there are times I want to have sex purely for my enjoyment, and no other reason, what would you think of that? Would you find anything wrong with that? And if so, wouldn’t the libido-killing pill be a good thing?
Posted by: xalisae at July 20, 2008 11:44 PM
……………..
Not a Jilly will answer.
Posted by: Sally at July 21, 2008 12:25 AM
Sorry, meant to address your questions and forgot.
I’ll answer the second question, first. No, I don’t think that it is necessary to “kill the libido”, it’s a part of our sexual nature. Our sexuality is a gift. The Church teaches to use it responsibly since it can bring about another human being and because it produces such a strong bond between a man and woman. One reason why the Church objects to artificial contraception is because the woman using it can potentially become an sexual object. Hence the danger of wanting sex purely for the physical enjoyment. Our physical desires need to be ordered not only for our good but for the good of others. Yes, sex feels good but it is a donation of myself to my spouse and my spouse to me. If I look only for the physical pleasure to be had then it becomes selfish. One can also turn the procreative aspect into a selfish end. I suppose there have been people who only want a baby without thinking about the bonding or unitive aspect of intercourse also.
Posted by: Eileen at July 22, 2008 2:19 PM
Didn’t want you to think that you were being ignored!! :)
So Sally…given the circumstances you went through with your baby and your 3 year old, which, granted, were not pleasant and no doubt extremely hard for you, (and not circumstances you would wish on anyone else, as you said) what is it you would have wanted in that case? To be able to just kill the baby and your 3 year old to “solve everything” ?????
Obviously you survived the whole ordeal. Are you not glad that you did???
Posted by: Mike at July 22, 2008 8:51 PM
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Affordable soy formula would have been the ticket Mike. And another person to feed it to him once in a while. Thus giving me a chance to get some sleep. It’s quite dangerous to be so fatigued and in charge of children. It makes you clumsy, dizzy and slow to react.
To hell with the supposed BC benefits of nursing 24/7!
That was the point Mike. Nursing 24/7 is exhausting. Dangerous for the woman and dangerous for her children. Hardly worth the BC ‘benefit’.
Addressing your questions:
Why would I kill the children that I invested the time and effort into gestating, giving birth to, and raising to that point? The kids were not my cause of lack of sleep. Lack of a support system was the cause. Rather illogical question Mike.
Am I glad that I survived prolonged sleep deprivation without it causing serious trauma or death to one or both of my children? Or even myself? What do you think?
Sally,
Yeah, it was a small house, with thin walls, and she and I shared a room with mom and dad across the hall. We would take turns napping on the couch in the basement, as I recall.
“Nursing 24/7 is exhausting. Dangerous for the woman and dangerous for her children.”
WRONG. Nursing is not dangerous to women and children.
THis is utter nonsense!
What a pile of crock.
You always use the hard cases for promoting abortion.
Please stop. NOW.
How many women have rotting babies inside them.
We all KNOW these are not the reasons women are having abortions. They are using abortion as back up.
I’m gonna go now. Too MUCH lightning.
Posted by: Patricia at July 22, 2008 9:11 PM
…………………………….
What is nonsense is you pretending that you have any understanding of medical care in the US now let alone the time frame of before RVW to which I was addressing. Do you ever actually read anything you post to?
Perhaps you best hide from the lightening. Thor might get you.
What is nonsense is you pretending that you have any understanding of medical care in the US now let alone the time frame of before RVW to which I was addressing. Do you ever actually read anything you post to?
Perhaps you best hide from the lightening. Thor might get you.
Posted by: Sally at July 22, 2008 10:01 PM
In fact it is YOU who are posting complete nonsense Sally. Stop it. You are spreading lies. Try to intellectually honest and rational.
Roe vs Wade was not implemented to help women in these situations. Abortion was brought in because the women’s rights movement had a political agenda. They have never given a rat’s a$$ about the health of women, then, now or EVER.
If they did they wouldn’t be pill pushing, baby killing marriage-wrecking advocates.
For your sorry information SALLY, health care in the US and Canada was not that much different. Women get pregnant the same way in the US as they do in Canada and they have the same complications in the US as they do in Canada.
A bolt of lightning to YOUR head might enLIGHTEN you!
Nursing 24/7 is exhausting. Dangerous for the woman and dangerous for her children. Hardly worth the BC ‘benefit’.
I’m sorry it was so difficult for you. I’ve never breastfed since I’ve never had kids, but I certainly believe that it’s exhausting, especially in the beginning. And I think that if you’re just doing it for the BC then you’d have a whole host of easier things to pick from. It really sounds like you could have used more support, though.
I think that if I’m ever fortunate enough to have kids I’ll need to live on some kind of commune where there are tons of people to help me out. I’ve already told my mom that if I ever have a baby I expect her to contribute at least 3 weeks’ worth of seaweed soup.
Patricia —
What are your views on co-sleeping? I know a few people who have said that it made the early months much easier, with regards to breastfeeding. I’m just curious because you seem to know a lot about this stuff, and I’m fascinated by it.
I was a LaLeche League Leader, Alexandra.
If you want to nurse through the night AND get your sleep you have to have the baby in bed with you. That way when the baby wants to nurse, you just plug him/her in and go back to sleep. They nurse, and go off to sleep. Meanwhile you are asleep.
I recommend having a crib “kittycar” to the bed because then you can just roll the bambino into the crib when he’s done nursing.
This use to be the norm for new moms until about the late 1800’s or early 1900’s, as was breastfeeding.
My son was just a very high need baby. He really didn’t settle until he was about 5 years old. By then we had been to emerg so many times with him – he was very reckless. I think at 5, he matured a bit more and then he was fine.
Now he’s a pretty nice young man with a good sense of humour.
Sally, I don’t see why you’re avoiding the question of killing a newborn.
If the typical pro-choice argument states that a woman can kill her offspring because it is soley reliant on her for survival, why can the same not be applied to a born child who is reliant on its mother for nutrients?
You claim the siutations aren’t comprable because you lacked “support” and not because of the physical act of breastfeeding, but I argue that this is percisely what makes them analogous.
If a woman has no support and no means of feeding her child any way besides the breast, and we use the logic of the pro-choice crowd, can she not kill her child because he is completely reliant upon her body for survival?
I find it very interesting how the medical community became so much more interested in maternal and gestational health care after women’s right to govern their reproductive organs was returned to them. Those ‘icky’ abortion procedures were developed to preserve the life and reproductive integrity of women as well as an option in controlling if and when children are desired.
Posted by: Sally at July 22, 2008 7:53 PM
I’m afraid that it is you who is not currently informed — abortion clinics are the most under-regulated medical facilities out there. Numerous violations occur, women have been rendered sterile, uterine perforations have occurred, women have died. There is a substantive increase in premature births after an abortion. These things must have been mentioned on this site before but pro-choicers tend to ignore facts.
I breastfed because I was too darn lazy to do the bottle thing.
Why bother with all that hassle when you can just whip out a breast and plug the baby in?!! He just seemed so much easier to me and the benefits are enormous for baby and mom.
I have bad allergies and only one of my kids has allergies.
They are all pretty smart and I have a very strong relationship with each of them – something I attribute to breastfeeding.
Having said that, if a woman ends up not breastfeeding, I do not consider them a bad mom or a failure – although many women do feel this way unfortunately. Sometimes it just doesn’t work out for the mom and baby and some babies are incredibly difficult fussy nursers.
I find it very interesting how the medical community became so much more interested in maternal and gestational health care after women’s right to govern their reproductive organs was returned to them. Those ‘icky’ abortion procedures were developed to preserve the life and reproductive integrity of women as well as an option in controlling if and when children are desired.
Posted by: Sally at July 22, 2008 7:53 PM
Abortion clinics are the most under-regulated medical facilities out there. Numerous violations occur, women have been rendered sterile, uterine perforations have occurred, women have died. There is a substantive increase in premature births after an abortion. These things must have been mentioned on this site before! Yet pro-choicers still refer to “safe”, legal abortions!
Yeah, that little sidecar-looking thing is what I was picturing.
I know so many people who are so opposed to co-sleeping. I think it’s strange because to me it sounds like a great idea, but I’ve never spoken to anyone who was anything remotely resembling an authority figure on the matter. So I wasn’t sure if I was just missing something.
Sorry! I thought that I had stopped my post in time — I don’t want to attack people personally…
Yeah, that little sidecar-looking thing is what I was picturing.
I know so many people who are so opposed to co-sleeping. I think it’s strange because to me it sounds like a great idea, but I’ve never spoken to anyone who was anything remotely resembling an authority figure on the matter. So I wasn’t sure if I was just missing something.
Posted by: Alexandra at July 22, 2008 10:30 PM
Alexandra – in the 1990’s which is when I had my children breastfeeding and natural childbirth including homebirth were making a strong comeback. However, times appear to have changed. Fewer women are breastfeeding and more women are choosing to have C-sections. There are a number of theories behind this and one is that younger women simply want to do everything the easiest way possible. Alot of women schedule C-sections in Canada and doctors are now starting to refuse to do them unless there is a medical reason.
However, to my mind what appears easier may not be so. Personally, I found the more interventions I had in childbirth the longer it took me to recover. I had everything but a C-section for my first and I was a wreck afterwards.
Sally,
You will find that nearly every single person here, interestingly enough pro-choice or pro-life, is in favor of abortion as a valid option when it comes to preserving the life or (some of us) even preventing a substantial health risk of the mother.
We mostly oppose abortion when it is the destruction of a significant human life for convenience. Most motives for abortion can be solved with the suggestion of adoption. The only motives that remain outside of “what do I do now with this…thing” are either concerned with serious health risks, or the actual endurance of the pregnancy and the minor long term negative effects.
If you want to abort, just say its because you dont want to “deal” with it. I think that if the motives of abortion were truly explained to “mainstream” America, that most people would react with horror the other way around.
However, to my mind what appears easier may not be so.
I think this is a good point. But I don’t necessarily think that it’s laziness on the part of younger women that’s a main cause of women turning away from natural child-birth and -raising options. I think mostly it’s just that the medical community is still, for the most part, somewhat hostile to natural medicine’ or anything that resembles it. I don’t think this is done with malicious intent, but I think that it comes from an intersection of desires to standardize the delivery process (when it can be so individual for each woman), move things along quickly so that doctors can see more women, and account for any possible risks before there is a hint they may arise.
A lot of the women I know have been choosing not to give birth in hospitals but rather in birthing centers because they feel like they have more say in the process. But I think that maybe for women who are less comfortable not agreeing with whatever anyone in a lab coat says, it may be really scary to go against the scientific advice in favor of the holistic advice. I’m not even pregnant or trying to get pregnant but it still gives me anxiety to think about.
I’m obviously not qualified to talk on the subject of childbirth/breastfeeding, but just from what I’ve managed to look into, it seems we agree a lot on these kinds of things, Patricia.
Patricia, 10:27 p.m.
I totally agree! I breastfed because I just thought it was so much easier and believe me it was. I would just bring Gabriella in bed with me at night and nurse and go back to sleep. I couldn’t imagine having to get up and heat a bottle..ahh! And one of the most important benefits of breastfeeding: IT’S FREE!
The reason I think many women are having more trouble breastfeeding these days and not succeeding with it as much is because they supplement with a bottle wayyyyy too early because the doctor tells them too. The one tip I give to any of the new mommies that I know who want to breastfeed is: Don’t let them give the baby a bottle in the hospital! It totally screws up the whole nursing thing because of nipple confusion. Once they get a little bit older and are used to nursing you can switch between bottle and breast, but doing it in the beginning really confuses the baby and makes breastfeeing much harder.
Anyway, I’m off to bed, night all!
What is nonsense is you pretending that you have any understanding of medical care in the US now let alone the time frame of before RVW to which I was addressing. Do you ever actually read anything you post to?
Perhaps you best hide from the lightening. Thor might get you.
Posted by: Sally at July 22, 2008 10:01 PM
In fact it is YOU who are posting complete nonsense Sally. Stop it. You are spreading lies. Try to intellectually honest and rational.
Roe vs Wade was not implemented to help women in these situations. Abortion was brought in because the women’s rights movement had a political agenda. They have never given a rat’s a$$ about the health of women, then, now or EVER.
If they did they wouldn’t be pill pushing, baby killing marriage-wrecking advocates.
For your sorry information SALLY, health care in the US and Canada was not that much different. Women get pregnant the same way in the US as they do in Canada and they have the same complications in the US as they do in Canada.
A bolt of lightning to YOUR head might enLIGHTEN you!
Posted by: Patricia at July 22, 2008 10:10 PM
…………………….
You are sad Patty.
As I’ve stated earlier on other threads, you must breastfeed ON DEMAND – and this means at night too. It is not the milk production that prevents ovulation but the nipple stimulation. And every woman is different.
When I use to teach NFP this was the time many couples finally came in for instruction – a difficult time to learn to be sure.
They didn’t want to go on the pill again.
Well I’ve got you all beat because my first child was a monster – he never slept through the night until I got pregnant when he was 18 mons old. He stopped nursing at 20 mons when the milk turned salty.
Posted by: Patricia at July 22, 2008 9:00 PM
………………….
You might have breast fed too long when the kid tells you to lay off the salt.
“Nursing 24/7 is exhausting. Dangerous for the woman and dangerous for her children.”
WRONG. Nursing is not dangerous to women and children.
Posted by: Patricia at July 22, 2008 10:01 PM
…………….
In the context of your own copy and paste it most certainly is.
No babies were killed in that clinic for a day!!!
Yeah South Dakota. PP finally found a court system they couldn’t tie up indefinitely.
Sally, I don’t see why you’re avoiding the question of killing a newborn.
…………….
I think that you are either playing stupid or actually are stupid. I gave an answer. Because you choose not to understand or simply don’t understand the answer is your lack, not mine.
Sally,
You will find that nearly every single person here, interestingly enough pro-choice or pro-life, is in favor of abortion as a valid option when it comes to preserving the life or (some of us) even preventing a substantial health risk of the mother.
We mostly oppose abortion when it is the destruction of a significant human life for convenience. Most motives for abortion can be solved with the suggestion of adoption. The only motives that remain outside of “what do I do now with this…thing” are either concerned with serious health risks, or the actual endurance of the pregnancy and the minor long term negative effects.
If you want to abort, just say its because you dont want to “deal” with it. I think that if the motives of abortion were truly explained to “mainstream” America, that most people would react with horror the other way around.
Posted by: EmperorPen at July 22, 2008 10:59 PM
……………………
You must be new to this blog.
Nursing 24/7 is exhausting. Dangerous for the woman and dangerous for her children. Hardly worth the BC ‘benefit’.
I’m sorry it was so difficult for you. I’ve never breastfed since I’ve never had kids, but I certainly believe that it’s exhausting, especially in the beginning. And I think that if you’re just doing it for the BC then you’d have a whole host of easier things to pick from. It really sounds like you could have used more support, though.
I think that if I’m ever fortunate enough to have kids I’ll need to live on some kind of commune where there are tons of people to help me out. I’ve already told my mom that if I ever have a baby I expect her to contribute at least 3 weeks’ worth of seaweed soup.
Posted by: Alexandra at July 22, 2008 10:15 PM
……………………………..
I hope that your mother is able and willing to do just that for you when you have children.
Anti-Abortion activity is simply a red herring for the continued domination of women.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 23, 2008 12:45 AM
What do you call girls killed in the womb if not dominated? Abortion does not discriminate or dominate based on sex, it is an equal opportunity killer and dominator. Maybe you are just an ultra-right wing feminist fascist who thinks women should get to decide everything related to child-birth, including sexing the babies in the womb and killing all the males. Would you be o.k. with that?
That is what scares the majority of conservative Christian’s, female freedom.
Anti-Abortion activity is simply a red herring for the continued domination of women.
Posted by: Anonymous at July 23, 2008 12:45 AM
So what about those of us who aren’t conservative Christians?
You might have breast fed too long when the kid tells you to lay off the salt.
Posted by: Sally at July 23, 2008 12:06 AM
This tells me that you have no practical knowledge of extended breastfeeding.
Let me help you Sally.
First of all the child does not TELL the woman her milk tastes salty! Please! We know this from scientific studies.
When a woman is pregnant her body, in an effort to help her and the newly developing child within her, begins the process of weaning the older child.
It does this by changing the taste of the breast milk which is normally sweet (especially the foremilk) to a more unpleasant taste, of salty. It works more often than not.
Also many women who are still nursing an older child (usually a young toddler as in my case)find that rather than calming mom (and child), as breastfeeding normally does, it makes them feel ansy and irritable. The child senses this too.
Thirdly, some nursing pregnant moms experience a great deal of nipple soreness during pregnancy which also makes for an very uncomfortable experience.
The fact that you have tried to insult me by not using my proper moniker tells me that I’ve hit a very sore spot Sally.
Try to grow up and post like a mature woman, please.
You will find that nearly every single person here, interestingly enough pro-choice or pro-life, is in favor of abortion as a valid option when it comes to preserving the life or (some of us) even preventing a substantial health risk of the mother.
Posted by: EmperorPen at July 22, 2008 10:59 PM
NO. This is a wrong assumption. It is not morally licit to abort a child to save the mother. You may treat the mother to save her life and if in the course of the treatments the child dies, that is morally licit. It is the intent of the action/treatment that is important. If the intent is to save the life of the mother, as in receiving chemo but the child will die, this is morally licit. Of course, we have had numerous examples in the past several months of women refusing treatment in order to deliver their child – at the loss of their own lives.
Very heroic in these times of self-centredness and the culture of death.
BTW: why the anonymous postings here?
Hi Patricia,
I must disagree with you. I did not breastfeed ON DEMAND. I breastfed all four of my babies on a napping/nursing routine. I never had a problem with letdown, no colic, they grew fast and furious, napped like champs and all of them were sleeping through night by 9 weeks. They all had a bottle of breast milk by 3 weeks so Mommy could go out with Daddy.
I am not alone in this experience. In fact, I don’t know anyone who demand fed in my circle of friends.
You know who started me on this routine? The nurses in the hospital. :)
What are we disagreeing about Carla?
If you are saying there is only one way to breastfeed which is Demand…I disagree.
Oh No. Absolutely NOT!
I do know lots of women who have used what we called “scheduled nursing” or had a routine. Hey if that works for you, that is wonderful! I certainly wish I had been able to do this – it might have made my life a little easier.
A woman who was a leader when I began to go to LaLeche had 10 children – all of whom she had on a nursing schedule, although some did nurse at night. But she often had her menses return after 10 months or so.
Most women I’ve met have not been able to get a baby on a schedule. I never was able to.
I”m saying that if you don’t want your menses to return for a lengthy period of time, then on demand nursing is best without the use of bottles, pacifiers, etc.
However, even then, some women’s bodies are not deterred from ovulating!
Generally speaking though, that is what happens. My thinking is that each woman should know her own body and there are usually signs that fertility is returning in the nursing mom. The problem is that unless you were tuned into your body before you got pregnant – and NFP is a great way to come to know your body and how it works- you are likely going to miss those signs.
Sorry the above post makes it sound like the woman was nursing 10 children at once! NOT!
Each when they came along was on a schedule! Whew!
Thanks Patricia,
Please don’t think I was being confrontational. I just had such a great time on a routine and with 3 children and a nursing babe, it made more sense for me. :)
I was doing NFP to get pregnant and learned a lot!! However after my babies were born I did not want to take any chances and used a diaphragm. I don’t see that type of BC mentioned much.
Carla,
I think she’s saying the only way to rely on breastfeeding to keep you “unpregnant” is to do it on demand and exclusively. Not that you can’t breastfeed and bottle feed simultaneously, and still call it breastfeeding.
I remember charting just for “scientific purposes” after having my 3rd and 4th child. It was pretty interesting to see how my body gradually returned to being fertile.
I would have my menses return after 18+ months. It was wonderful to not have periods for so long. For 10 years I had very very few periods and this gave my body a wonderful rest. I also noticed a significant improvement in my breast tissue. I believe this is why I have had so few problems in perimenopause.
BTW: did you know that LLL was founded by 7 moms who I believe were Catholic and helped by 2 outstanding doctors, Dr. Herbert Ratner and Dr. Gregory White.
Sally 7:53PM
How many times must I tell you that you are discussing ancient medical history?
Before Roe v Wade, exceptions were made for the life and health of the pregnant women. Thanks to better technology,diagnostic procedures, and medical care, NOT Roe v Wade, women can be better diagnosed and treated.
Yay! Marys back!! :)
Sally,
You promote the idea that nursing 24/7 is dangerous for the woman and baby?? Please. Women have been breast feeding since the beginning of time with husbands gone off to war, raising several children alone all while keeping up the family farm, baking bread, tilling fields etc…….
You somehow manage to tie everything into a pro-abort agenda.
How about tying this into your pro-abort agenda:
Women are delivering more preemies than ever before and in record numbers. Studies have shown that this is due to abortion procedures weakening cervixes. (not saying this is the case for all preemies)
This is dangerous for the babies.
Preemies need to be fed on the hour every hour.
Abortion = weakened cervix = premature baby = grueling one hour feedings 24/7.
Sally, your answer was not sufficient and is completely illogical.
I explained why this was the case, and instead of refuteing my argument, you attacked me.
So again, I ask, what is the difference between killing a child who is completely physically dependant on the mother outside the womb and killing a child who is completely physically dependant on the mother *inside* the womb.
We’ve already established that no other option than the mother’s body exists to care for the infant, so I do not see how the siutation is at all different from abortion.
Your assertion that the lack of support/access to affordable formula is the problem is akin to saying the lack of a surrogate uterus is the problem and not the child himself.
Most pro-choicers will accept this as fact, but claim that the lack of other choices allow abortion. If we follow that logic to its conclusion, we find that killing a nursing infant is also acceptable as long as there were no other options.
Now, of course, most people do not support infanticide, but the underlying logic is the same.
So Sally, I ask you again, do you support killing an infant whose mother is the only one who can provide for it?
Oops, the last comment by Emperorpen was really me. EP is my husband, and I forgot to change the login info.
Carla,
I think she’s saying the only way to rely on breastfeeding to keep you “unpregnant” is to do it on demand and exclusively. Not that you can’t breastfeed and bottle feed simultaneously, and still call it breastfeeding.
Posted by: mk at July 23, 2008 7:57 AM
Absolutely.
And Carla, I did not consider it confrontational. I also know that BF is a very sensitive subject and many women feel very judged as to whether or not and how they BF.
But I know from experience that it’s sometimes quite a challenge.
God bless you Carla (and MK too!)
Can you believe it is thunderstorming again here. What’s up with this weather?
Thanks Patricia.
I absolutely loved breastfeeding and sometimes miss those precious moments.
Sally,
I shudder to think what could have happened without my support system of women. They helped with laundry, took my other children for playdates, cooked meals and just came and sat and stared at my babies. :) Sleep deprivation takes a toll and night after night, week after week, month after month, makes for one worn out Momma!! I remember well the fuzzybrain, the crazy emotions, and the longing to lay down.
I’m new here–so excuse my butting in.
Nothing is to be gained by attacking each other.
The important thing here is the child and the relationship with the mother. When you conceive, like it or not, you already are a mother. There is never any reason to purposefully destroy the human, unique and irreplaceable life that has been created. NEVER! You can talk preventative abortions because the doctor sees something suspicious on his MRI or other tests. Always an attempt should be made to save BOTH. Who is he trying to protect? Not you! He is more afraid of a lawsuit! I have read countless reports from young people whose courageous mothers were advised to abort, but refused. Seldom was anything actually even wrong with them!
Let us talk numbers. In the years just prior to Roe vs Wade, self-inflicted abortions which caused death amounted to exactly 39. I think society could have handled adopting 39 children. Today, because of cavalier, casual sexual attitudes (in and outside of marriage), abortion is not being used as the “rarity” which had been promoted by pro-abortion groups, but the primary means of birth control to the tune of approximately 4,000 PER DAY–culminating to 50 MILLION in the past 35 years. We have lost an entire generation. By the way, that is only in America.
My main problem with pro-abortionists is this–When did the human life of the human child and the life-giving nature of the womanly body become so offensive and hateful? I don’t understand where this self-loathing comes from except by the feeding of venom provided by those who only think of the empirical self as the most important aspect to their life. Then schizophenically, when they decide they might want to bear a child, they have to switch gears and say “Yes, THIS child I want.” What is so wrong with having every child a loved child?
FYI–I did have an abortion 30 years ago. Believe me, I strongly thought it was my right to do so. It has taken me quite a long time to see that the killing of my own flesh and blood has had a profound affect on every aspect of my life. Regret it? Every day. But I denied any responsibility for it for nearly 2 decades. Yes, I thought women who couldn’t live with their abortions nut cases. Now I realize they are just people who made mistakes and needed to express normal human emotions because of what they had done. Regret does not necessarily happen immediately after the event. That is the peculiar thing about regret. It is in the looking back, the evaluation of your life, that sometimes regret rears its ugly head.
To all–debate is good, but remember–only love can change the heart. Unless, real love is shown, no one wins. The T-shirt slogan on a young person I saw some time ago said,
“Our goal is not to make abortion illegal. It is to make it unthinkable.”
That should truly be our goal.
VL @ 10:51 AM
Welcome VL – thanks so much for sharing. We hope you stay around, because the last point you made – making abortion unthinkable, is something almost everyone here can agree with.
VL
Sorry for your abortion. I love the slogan. You make very good points. It is ESPECIALLY hard to understand how a married couple can choose to abort “some” of their children and decide to birth life to other children. I often wonder how parents can look at thier “chosen” children and not be reminded every single day that they aborted their childrens’ siblings.
I know a woman who aborted two of her children because it just wasn’t the right time for another baby. She and her husband decided to “keep” two children. One just died in an auto accident and the other has attempted suicide more than once and is of course devestated at the loss of her only sibling. Her parents are now bitterly divorced and she feels very alone. She could have had two siblings in her life, but they were selfishly extinguished. Money has never been an issue with this family. They had plenty to provide for their family.
Thank you, VL and welcome.
I share your story of regret over abortion. Mine was almost 18 years ago. Looking forward to more from you. :)
I want that tshirt!!!
It’s not separate though, it’s attached to the woman by an umbilical cord.
OK Jess,
It is attached by an umbilical cord because you attached it.
Let’s just continue the lie that the baby is just a blob of tissue. Does that make you feel better? Let’s keep women uninformed and ignorant to what is growing inside her body.
Don’t tell me this lie doesn’t still exist.
When I was diagnosed with my miscarriage I was told if I miscarried naturally I may see “some tissue”
The “tissue” I miscarried in my home was a tiny little human being. A tiny little baby. It looked nothing like “tissue” they told me my body would expell. I was told my miscarriage would be like a heavy period. They failed to tell me I would deliver a tiny little baby.
Point being Jess, women need to understand that what they are choosing to abort is not just “tissue”
I have read stories of women who were told this lie and then went home to deliver their babie’s head in the toilet, or an arm, or leg because of an imcomplete abortion.
Do you think these women all of a sudden still thought of thier baby as a “blob of tissue”??
and felt any better that well……it was attached by an umbilical cord, so it’s ok.
Calm down Sandy. You’re putting words in my mouth. It is true that the baby is attached to you by an umbilical cord. That’s all I said. You must be dealing with a lot of unresolved issues surrounding your abortion. I hope you can find the help that you need, but please don’t lie to people, it will only make things worse.
Here is a picture of a baby attached by an umbilical cord:
http://www.buzzle.com/img/articleImages/26918-7med.jpg
This is one from a pro-life site showing the baby is attached to the mothers uterus:
http://www.lifebeginsatconception.com/index.29.jpg
Here is something from wikipedia explaining it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbilical_cord
It’s not separate though, it’s attached to the woman by an umbilical cord.
The T-shirt is attached to the mother via an umbilical cord? heh
You must be dealing with a lot of unresolved issues surrounding your abortion.
Sandy didn’t have an abortion. She had a miscarriage. It’s very hurtful to call it an abortion when it was not, so please respect her feelings. She is a bereaved mother.
Sandy,
I had the same experience with miscarriage. I’m so sorry.
I also want this on a shirt:
“every child a loved child ”
Thanks Bethany and Carla!
Jess,
By stating that I had an abortion in your post to me tells me you clearly didn’t spend much time reading my post. You refuse to understand my response.
You stated that the baby is not separate because it is attached by an umbilical cord. The point is Jess, that the baby is a separate individual, women created this unique separate individual. This is a fact that pro-aborts have NOT wanted women to know and understand for 35 years.
It also spills over and the lie continues for all women.
What exactly am I lying about Jess??????
Sandy,
I’m sorry to hear about your miscarriage.
Thanks A.
It was a very devestating experience. Life changing.
Sandy it seems that most women here who have a miscarriage have had an abortion, they blame the abortion on causing problems later in the pregnancy. You obviously didn’t spend much time reading my previous posts either or else you would have understood that I am all for informing women of what an abortion entails (developmental stages, DNA, possible negative effects of abortion, alternative options including adoption open or closed) and even having the woman sign it and offered a free ultrasound and even viewing the abortion procedure before undergoing it.
You said the baby was separate from the mother. It is not. It is attached by an umbilical cord.
Jess,
I delivered two children. I am not ignorant of the fact that a baby is attached to the mother by an umbilical cord. I stated that in my post as well. Are you saying you support this legislation? Your suggestions go much further than what they are requring.
Gotta run!
Sandy,
How far along where you?
I am so sorry about your miscarriage.
Also welcome to VL. God loves you VL!!
Most women here who have had miscarriages have had abortions? Please don’t generalize Jess. There are quite a few of us that have lost children to miscarriage and only 2 that I know of that have had abortions and regret them.
I do wonder why after I had an abortion I miscarried though….
Hi Patricia,
I actually had two miscarriages. The first one happened at 12 weeks. The second at 9weeks. I was devestated and have done tons of advocacy work in the area of miscarriage. I worked hard the last couple years and got a bill passed in my state that will require women diagnosed with a miscarriage be informed what their options are for fetal burial. Since I had lost my first pregnancy in my home I had no idea what to do with my little life. No woman should EVER have to go through that. Also, in many hospitals women who go through D&Cs in have had no idea that their babies are being incinerated with medical waste. Many large hospitals will cremate them together for mass burial, but that is if the hospital has a bereavement program in place. They now have to be told what their options are and they have the right to take their baby home for burial per state guidelines.
This bill really got the pro-aborts hot and bothered. You’d think they would support this bill since it was offering choices to women.
Unfortunatley that wasn’t the case. So much for compassion.
Hi Sandy,
5 years after my abortion I miscarried my 11 week old baby into my hand at home.(I was told I would pass a plumb sized clot)I did not know what to do either. I had been asked if I wanted a D & C but felt for me that would have been too much like an abortion….but nobody explained that to me either.
Sorry to say my husband and I were so freaked out we flushed our precious baby down the toilet.
I miscarried again 6 years later at 9 weeks.
Our experiences our so similar. Thank you for the work you have done. I don’t think many women know “what to do” when you miscarry a child and who’s telling em??
Do you ever do anything with birth or death certificates? Do some states issue them? Just curious.
Oh, and we need to meet at MOA!! :)
Hi Carla and Sandy
I am so sorry to hear of your miscarriages. I have a friend who miscarried around 11 weeks and she passed a tiny well formed baby.
It was a terrible experience for her. She was in her early forties and they had struggled with whether or not to have another child (they already had 4 but she had miscarried a few times, including twins).
When she got pregnant she was happy but her doctor was NOT supportive (and you know what I mean by THAT).
Having a good group of Catholic friends, we all helped her.
She miscarried at home and then went to the hospital but did not take the baby. She was afraid that they would take her baby away. They checked her over and sent her home.
Our pastor looked after her and her baby in the spiritual sense. I won’t go into details here but they did have a blessing and so forth.
The thing about the death certificates is that you don’t need a birth certificate unless you’re born because before that you are inside of your mother and don’t need separate identification. It doesn’t seem logical to issue a death certificate without a birth certificate, so I would say if you miscarried a baby you would have to get a birth certificate first and then get the death certificate.
I do believe women who miscarry or abort should be able to bury or cremate their children however they wish (legally, as you would dispose of any corpse).
And yes Sandy for the most part I do support this legislation. I’m sick and tired of women being lied to about what goes on in their body and the body of an unborn baby. If they want to abort they should be informed of exactly what they are doing, to themselves and the baby.
Time and again we read these posts by women who say they weren’t “aware” of how developed their babies were when they had abortions. Then after the fact they are informed of the “facts”.
What I fail to comprehend is this: We are now living in the year 2008. We are NOT living in some backward country with no modern medical knowledge and technology. All one has to do is go to a public library and look at a book on pregnancy.
In 1960, when I was 5 years old, my mom got pregnant with my next youngest sister. I was so excited that we were going to have a baby in our house. She showed me a book called “Expectant Motherhood” which had color plates of the development of a baby from conception to all 9 months.
She had the wisdom to sit and explain to me, in a way I could comprehend, how big the baby was, that he/she had fingers, toes, a heartbeat, etc….and there was NO DOUBT in my 5 year old mind that this WAS INDEED a living HUMAN BEING growing inside of her. It made absolutely perfect sense to me…and I was 5 YEARS OLD.
For obvious reasons, she left out HOW the baby came to be there in the first place, as well as what was involved in it’s being born…none of which ever even crossed my mind at the time, anyway.
In this day and age, in the UNITED STATES, HOW can so many women be SO ignorant of WHAT is going on inside their bodies when they are pregnant?????
I have a majorly difficult time buying this excuse. It isn’t like the facts of pregnancy have been a deep dark secret for the last several decades.
Mike,
I can answer that in light of my abortion and my miscarriage. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Why would I need to know up until that point? I was raised in a very abusive home. I was told nothing about anything. My mom took my sister for an abortion. I wasn’t taught about fetal development in school. I was raised in the 80’s.
I had no desire or inclination to look through fetal development books before then. Why would I? I would never had an abortion had I KNOWN THEN WHAT I KNOW NOW.
Are you forgetting that most abortion clinics don’t want you to know? Are you forgetting that many, many women KNOW it’s a tiny human baby and yet still don’t mind killing it? Are you forgetting the PCers on this blog that believe a woman can choose what to do with her very pregnant body?
Maybe you don’t mean to be but your comment is blaming women. Are you really so angry at us? At abortion clinics for neglecting to share the facts? At doctors who don’t say a word about what happens during a miscarriage? At school districts that don’t teach fetal development?
ALL 3 of my four oldest children know exactly where babies come from and how they got there now. I am determined to do the best I can for my children.
Maybe you should talk to more individual women instead of blaming us all and our sorry excuses. Better yet, organize field trips to the library. All aboard.
I am also determined to do better for women. Volunteering at a Pregnancy Care Center which involves telling women about fetal development, volunteering at Rachel’s Vineyard, Team Leader for Operation Outcry, yapping on this blog that ABORTION HURTS WOMEN. I will continue until the day I die to try and help women see the pain that abortion can cause BEFORE they decide to have one and leading them to abortion recovery programs after the fact.
Jess,
Just read your post about the baby not being considered a different entity because it was still attached to the mom by umbilical cord…soooo, by this defintion it is still part of the mom’s body and the mom should have rights whether to kill it or not, right?
Question for you: the umbilical cord is cut AFTER the child is born….does this mean that the baby is still part of the mom’s body even if it’s out of the womb?
Is it still ok to kill it if the umbulical cord is still attached?
The thing about the death certificates is that you don’t need a birth certificate unless you’re born because before that you are inside of your mother and don’t need separate identification. It doesn’t seem logical to issue a death certificate without a birth certificate, so I would say if you miscarried a baby you would have to get a birth certificate first and then get the death certificate.
Posted by: Jess at July 23, 2008 10:48 PM
Jess,
Unfortunately babies who are stillborn are not issued birth certificates only death certificates. This is very hurtful to women since their babies were conceived and born into this world, but only recognized for their death.
Many states now issues a type of certificate honoring the birth of their baby and then a death certificate is filed.
Miscarried babies are not offered any type of birth or death certificate since they are not tracked by the CDC and are legally considered non-persons thanks to the pro-abort agenda.
Hi Carla!
An MOA trip should definitely be planned!!!
Thanks for all of your work and dedication to helping women who regret abortion. I am sure it is very rewarding work and you have so much to offer.
I have not been involved in any legislation for birth or death certificates. This type of bill passed in Minnesota just a few years ago.
I too am so sorry for your miscarriages. Our bill is meant to address the exact situation you and I and millions of other women experience. Miscarriage has been such a neglected health issue for women. Pregnancy loss is the least trained area of the OB/GYN field and yet up to 20% of all OB/GYN patients will experience a pregnancy loss.
My firm belief is that the pro-abort agenda has been a major influence in why this is so. As evidenced by the actions of state and national pro-abort groups we dealt with during our quest to pass our bill.
NARAL “Pro-Choice” Minnesota was a major opponent of our bill. Go figure. Pro-choice groups out of DC pulled campaign funding for the state Senator who was originally sponsoring our bill when she decided to run for US Congress this year. She dumped our bill to keep her record clean of any involvement with giving women accurate information on miscarried babies.
She failed to get the endorsement.
She sold out women and families for her own political career. PP had some involvement in lies and cover-ups to discredit our bill. (But that’s another story.)
RSD,
Great question. Can’t wait to hear the answer!
Sandy,
Looks like we’re not gonna get it….
Yeah, great question. And I was hoping to learn the answer to that, too. ;)