Weekend question
The Los Angeles Times reported July 3:
The 1st Amendment rights of two anti-abortion activists were violated when they were ordered to stop circling a Rancho Palos Verdes [CA] middle school in a truck displaying graphic photos of aborted fetuses, a federal appellate court ruled Wednesday….
[A] U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals panel unanimously ruled that school officials and sheriff’s deputies violated the men’s free speech rights by ordering them to leave the school’s neighborhood….
The 7-by-20-foot truck with photos of first-term fetuses on three sides appeared near Dodson Middle School around 7:30 a.m. March 24, 2003, as students arrived. Several stopped to stare at the photos, which showed fetuses with small hands and feet and the word “choice” in quotation marks and big block letters….
Assistant Principal Art Roberts told the trial court that he saw several children who appeared to be angered by the images and that he had to discourage a group of boys from throwing rocks at the truck.
Roberts called deputies, who stopped and searched the truck and another vehicle, then ordered the activists to leave the area, according to court documents.
“It’s the off-putting speech that needs protection, otherwise there is no need for the 1st Amendment,” said Robert Muise, a lawyer for the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform, who filed the suit….
Gregg Cunningham, the center’s executive director, said… “Students who are old enough to have an abortion are old enough to see an abortion.”
Mary-Jane Wagle, chief executive of Planned Parenthood LA, said her group was concerned that young children may be exposed to graphic and jarring images without proper discussion in school or at home.
“Certainly we know they will be horrified, but will they understand what they see? We don’t know,” Wagle said. “We really believe that what’s important is for families to talk about these issues at home, in a safe place.”
CA children can abort without parental notification.
Several questions: Do you think children deemed old enough to get abortions on their own volition are old enough to see what they’re getting? What about the photos made the middle school boys angry enough to throw stones? What do you think of the PP exec’s response? What did she consider “graphic” and “jarring” about the images her organization creates? Why did she “know” children would be “horrified” by them? Why did she consider the family environment a “safe place” to discuss what abortion is but not a safe place to discuss obtaining one?
[Photos courtesy of CBR]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
What did she consider “graphic” and “jarring” about the images her organization creates? Why did she “know” children would be “horrified” by them? Why did she consider the family environment a “safe place” to discuss what abortion is but not a safe place to discuss obtaining one?
Really good questions. Perhaps she’s not quite a 100% sociopath? A glimmer of memory from her own childhood when she understood that there was a problem with abortion….?
Good Point, kb. The book that PP gives out is a LOT worse, and its aimed at 10 year old children and older. The book I refer to is “Its Perfectly Normal” and it shows the actual act of sex. I don’t think 10 year old children NEED to know HOW its done that early.
As a parent I am not sure I would like a truck like this circling my 11 year old’s school. Although to be quite honest with only 150 students in it, I can’t see this ever happening.
I agree with the concept that a student young enough to obtain an abortion ought to know what an abortion is – the murder of an unborn child. I’m just not sure this is the best way to accomplish this. But if the MSM won’t allow for even the most innocuous advertising, then maybe this IS the way.
As for the boys throwing rocks -hmmm. Perhaps they had been told to do this? Or maybe this was a visceral reaction rooted which is the result of the biased coverage of prolifers. Maybe these boys were reacting they way they’ve been programmed to by society – hate prolifers who are violent and intolerant. After all they’ve heard over and over again, about how violent we are, how intolerant we all are. The proaborts on this board LOVE to reiterate this repeatedly.
Like Henry Morgentaler here in Canada stating that he was surprised prolifers weren’t more “violent” in their negative response to his Order of Canada award.
The question is, why doesn’t Wagle want the public to really know and understand what abortion is? They REALLY don’t like these trucks.
I am not ready to let my 11 year old see these images yet either. I do however know that I will be showing them to him when I think he is ready to take in the horrifying TRUTH of what abortion is.
Abortion is graphic and jarring and horrifying. The tearing apart of babies until they are dead is what an abortion is and what the photos show.
If people really saw and knew and understood would PP still be raking in all of the blood money??
The simple answer is that the people who get off on displaying these images to shock and offend are mentally ill and get sexual gratification out of offending and shocking others-particularly children. Their mental illness is the same as perverts who expose their genitals to children.
I DONT THINK SO!
I am sure this will have the fetus flashers in a frenzy, and on the attack, however I am going to check out of Crazy Town for the rest of the weekend. Today is beautiful, and I don’t want it spoiled by thinking about your sick little world.
Posted by: Bystander at July 5, 2008 8:52 AM
Then don’t post here Bystander. No one is forcing you!
I second that, Patricia.
Huh?? In answer to everything Bystander said. Yes, a day off sounds perfect.
Bystander,
I think the key phrase that you used is “get off” showing these images.
I agree that anyone that is showing these images in order to stimulate themselves sexually is indeed perverted.
Do you have any evidence that this is the reason they are showing these images. I was under the impression that these were pro lifers presenting visual images of what abortion looks like, as an education tool.
If you can show me that they are actually be turned on sexually by showing these images, then I’d be the first to join you in your indignation.
Sans proof, I think you’re really reaching here.
First off, freedom of speech means putting up with people who say things that we don’t like.
Second, the question we’ve been asked is whether kids who are old enough to get an abortion are old enough to know what an abortion really is. This overlooks something:
The people who see that truck aren’t seeing what abortion really is. They’re seeing propaganda.
The leftover pieces from other kinds of surgery look gross too. This truck is about evoking an emotional response, not teaching kids about abortion. It’s a stunt, not a lesson.
The PP speaker makes a good point: What these kids need is real lessons from their parents and/or in school about what abortion is physically, socially, medically, and politically (spirituality is not the purview of U.S. public schools). This truck has forced the issue, but maybe some good can come of it.
Do other kinds of surgeries involve removing tiny feet, hands, heads and rib cages of babies?
Has no one heard the expression “You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar”?
Do you know if you actually want to convert people to your way of thinking instead of just trying to flex your morally superior muscle, then the best way is to use intelligent reason with them instead of going for the “look how gross this is, so it’s bad mmm’kay”
Unfortunately,JKeller we tried the nice approach in the 1970’s. It didnt work.
So now we try the real approach – what is abortion.
How can you say these images do not reflect what happens in abortion?
Do the babies just peacefully disappear on a cotton cloud into the land beyond?
Or
Are they torn limb from limb, eyes gouged out, feet ripped off, gutted, bloodied, mouths gaping as they struggle to get away from the abortionist’s cannula?
What do you think, JKeller?
It isnt about how “gross” it is, Jkeller. It’s about the fact that it’s indisputable that abortion kills a human being.
Those pictures are proof of that, and that is why abortion proponents HATE them.
JKeller,
Yes, sometimes discussion works. Sometimes pictures work. Sometimes nothing works.
I don’t promote the use of these types of images in exclusion of all other means of informing the public but in addition to other means.
These pictures may not affect you, but they may affect others. Conversation might be the way to your heart, but others might be just as turned off by lectures as you are by photos.
No reason we can’t employ every means possible to get the world to wake up to the ugly truth of abortion.
Why should abortion proponents hate them? They certainly aren’t changing many minds. Because it’s every person’s dream to join the ranks of the people who pour fake blood on themselves and parade around outside elementary schools with giant posters of graphic medical waste.
Why should abortion proponents hate them?
You tell me, Jkeller.
Because it’s every person’s dream to join the ranks of the people who pour fake blood on themselves
I have no idea what you’re talking about, or what relevance it has to this topic.
and parade around outside elementary schools with giant posters of graphic medical waste.
Medical waste? I’m sorry, but I see children.
I well remember when abortion advocates had no qualms about showing pictures of Geri Santoro, who died of an illegal abortion, on the Phil Donahue show.
There was no concern about anyone’s sensibilities or the possibly that children, maybe a few hundred thousand, may be watching the show.
Ms. Santoro was lying hunched over with her bare buttocks exposed. You would think this woman could be treated with some iota of dignity.
I also well remember pictures of abused children with the captions supporting “abortion reform”.
Apparently abortion advocates have no problem with anyone’s sensibilities when it comes to furthering their agenda.
I wonder what kind of sicko thought it would be a good idea to publish this picture from the holocaust?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/holocaust4.jpg
Certainly, it would have been better for people to just have conversations about it, rather than to see piles of medical waste. How disgusting that someone would publish those pictures, openly, for people to see and be grossed out by.
As usual, great point, Mary.
“Mary-Jane Wagle, chief executive of Planned Parenthood LA, said her group was concerned that young children may be exposed to graphic and jarring images without proper discussion in school or at home.”
“”Certainly we know they will be horrified, but will they understand what they see? We don’t know,” Wagle said. “We really believe that what’s important is for families to talk about these issues at home, in a safe place.””
The absolute denial of Planned Parenthood as to what they do to children is beyond understanding and demonstrated by Mary Jane Wagle’s rant on her supposed “concern” for children. These animals, after deceiving and witholding information from a woman in distress, advocate, promote and perform for profit, the theft of a baby from what should be the safest place next to heaven itself, a mother’s womb, the violation of that space, the rending and mutilation of the tiny body of the child being knit there, and then they have the unmitigated gall to somehow express “concern” for children?
This is evil to the core and if you can’t see it, go talk to your non-pro-abort rabbi, priest or minister about your lack of conscience because you don’t have one.
This, my friends, is the ultimate expression of evil. Substituting good for evil and evil for good, the very definition of blasphemy.
When people can speak the unspeakable like PP speaks we have come full circle to a world that deserves complete destruction as in the days of Noah, by a Holy God.
Don’t think for a moment that God doesn’t take note of what is going on. He is not ignoring this or being ambivalent towards the heinous evil of Planned Parenthood. He is simply waiting patiently in hope that they will come to their senses and turn from their evil ways.
JKiller, go back into your PC hole with all your other pro-abort cohorts. We pro-lifers are sick and tired of putting up with the political correctness that kills over one million babies a year in this country alone. It’s time for battle and we will insult your political correctness with he truth.
DRF, what you stated was vintage “twilight zone”. The images on the truck don’t represent what abortion is? Huh?
And Bi-stander, you are phycho-babbling again with lies about pro-lifers. If you saw the civil rights marches of the ’60’s what perverted and twisted statement would you say about those people? We pro-lifers are engaged in a monumental struggle to save this planet and the people in it. Your position offers death as a solution to the world’s problems with SoMG’s full concurrence and we offer life as a solution to the world’s problems with God’s full concurrence and you have made your choice.
If you are so ignorant and as a result don’t understand that abortion strikes at the very heart of God, a God who has the power, in the wink of an eye, to incinerate this planet, or worse, yet, withdraw his hand of protection completely from the likes of you and what you represent, then nothing we can say will change you. We are then forced to ignore you and abandon you to your inexorable fate.
Jill, there should be hundreds of these trucks in every city, especially in pro-abort strongholds like LA, San Francisco, Chicago, New York and the like. There should be billboards posted everywhere showing the holocaust that abortion is.
Planned Parenthood has made abortion sterile, just another procedure and has made billions from it. May the Lord destroy this orgnaization and wipe every vesitge of its presence from the face of the earth.
You know, whenever HisMan goes off on one of his self righteous tangents, I always picture him as one of those “Repent the end is near” guys you see shouting at people on the street.
kb at July 5, 2008 7:50 AM
Great point KB ! LOL.
“Jill, there should be hundreds of these trucks in every city, especially in pro-abort strongholds like LA, San Francisco, Chicago, New York and the like. There should be billboards posted everywhere showing the holocaust that abortion is.”
I agree Hisman.
JKiller:
No matter how it is said, the way in which it is presented, what is said, etc., that abortion is murder and those that perform and support it are committing a grave sin and subject to God’s punishment and wrath, you would ignore it, mock it, and twist it and that to your own detriment.
I really believe that even if Christ Himself were saying the same things to you face to face as I say, that you would have the same ignorant response towards the Creator of the Universe staring at you in the face. In fact, this is not my self-righteous tangent that you try to pigeonhole, they are the very same words that Christ would be saying. No mincing of words, no images tempered with political correctness, just the unaltered truth, take it or leave it.
Soooooooo…….no matter what you say and how you try to make a lying image of me, I will continue to speak the truth in all it’s forefulness.
I can assure you I am of much more substance than a doomsayer on the street.
Romans 2:4 “Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?”
Good. So you guys won’t mind me showing these pictures to your children?
http://www.goveg.com/photos_chickens.asp
http://www.goveg.com/photos_cows.asp
http://www.goveg.com/photos_pigs.asp
http://www.fishinghurts.com/photos_fishfarms.asp
I’m going to need a bigger truck, lol.
Maybe I’ll get a big projector and show the video of butchers smashing a pigs brains out with a brick right outside of the school at recess, right after lunch. That should make a… commotion, lol. Something tells me hundreds of vomiting, crying kids would get my point across.
Because I know no pro-lifer here will look at the pictures. “Oh they’re just animal, so what if they’re screaming in pain? So what if they’re ripped from their mothers when they’re only minutes old?”
Hisman,
Excellent post.
I’ve said before that people are not our enemy, abortion is. These trucks attack abortion, without attacking any one individual. They do not point fingers, insult, condemn or berate anybody. They do however expose the evil that abortion itself is.
If they disturb you, then they are working. If you are, as you claim, untouched by them, then why the outcry. If they are so ineffective, so obviously propaganda, so blatantly useless, just so much medical waste, then why have you wasted even one word decrying them?
It’s the same question I ask when Richard Dawkins attacks the Church. If you don’t believe in it, if you think it’s such a ridiculous waste of time, fairy tales, fantasies and the delusion of fools, then why do you make a living by attacking it?
Obviously, at least to me, these pictures ARE touching you in a deep way, or you wouldn’t feel it was necessary to comment on them at all…
Bethany,
10:43 AM
Bravo and Touche`!
Hey kids! You know that cute chick you saw that the petting zoo? Well, this is what they did to it after you left!
http://www.goveg.com/photos_chicken08.asp
Enjoy your chicken nuggets!
I tried to post another comment, I’m waiting for it to get approved though.
Now you see Jess, you have just proved our point. You could have told me about those chicks and I would have said “Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah…” but that picture? That spoke volumes. That’s horrible.
Not near as horrible as the same thing being done to human babies, or what was done during the holocaust, but horrible nonetheless.
Even Laura used pictures to show us the horrors of Iraq and Darfur.
Pictures work when words don’t.
That’s just a fact.
Jess, good point. What makes Peta any better than the pro-lifers with the signs?
Bethany, how many of those kids do you think are out getting abortions? Not as many as the ones that are eating “Babe” and all his barnyard friends.
Jess,
Good. So you guys won’t mind me showing these pictures to your children?
No, I wouldn’t mind at all. Any time an injustice is being done, it should be exposed. Eating meat is not wrong, but mistreating ANY living creature is wrong.
What I want to know is why these pictures touch your heart, but pictures of human beings being treated the same way, don’t? What does that say about you? I am horrified by all of the pictures, animals and humans alike. But I recognize that treating humans this way is much more horrifying. Do you really not see a difference between a chicken and a baby?
The exact same words HisMan? So you are indeed self righteous if you are equating yourself with Jesus Christ. Who’s the blasphemer now?
Jess,
Again, I find it very disturbing that you are more concerned about “Babe” than “Babes”…
Priorities, my love, priorities…
Bethany, how many of those kids do you think are out getting abortions? Not as many as the ones that are eating “Babe” and all his barnyard friends.
What does that matter? Animals are not people.
Not to gross you out– but I’m a bit of a country girl- I have personally chopped the head of a chicken, gutted it, and cleaned it for our dinner. I KNOW and fully understand the process that goes into the food that I eat. I believe that God gave us the animals for that reason, after the flood. We shouldn’t torture animals, but there is nothing wrong with eating them.
Mk, I wouldn’t much appreciate a chicken or pig, no matter how cute or adorable or intelligent, in my uterus. I don’t think the animals would appreciate being cramped up in there either.
Mk, I wouldn’t much appreciate a chicken or pig, no matter how cute or adorable or intelligent, in my uterus. I don’t think the animals would appreciate being cramped up in there either.
Would you directly kill any animal- your hamster, for instance- if it was, by some magical chance, inside your uterus, and would come out alive if you left it in for months? Please answer this question.
I wouldn’t leave it in for months. If I could say, take a pill and have it come out of my body, then once it was out I’d do my best to care for it.
I wouldn’t leave it in for months. If I could say, take a pill and have it come out of my body, then once it was out I’d do my best to care for it.
What you knew beforehand that the pill automatically killed it? Would you still take the pill?
Also, what if you knew that the function of the pill was to make your hamster cut off from food supply, so that it would literally starve to death before coming out. Would you take the pill and let your hamster starve to death inside your womb?
Bethany, what pill that causes abortion directly kills the baby or starves it to death? It makes the uterine lining disintegrate so the baby just comes out with the lining.
I am extremely offended by Bystander’s inappropriate comments in his first two paragraphs. Recommend a warning or some sort of timeout penalty be given at Jill’s discretion.
Jess,
HOW RU-486 WORKS
In their campaign to promote RU-486, pro-abortion activists claimed that RU-486 makes abortion
Laura, you’re right.
Bystander, any following comments like the one posted this morning will be deleted without warning.
Oops, Jess, I re-asked the wrong question:
Here’s the correct one:
What if you knew that the function of the pill was to make your hamster cut off from food supply, so that it would literally starve to death before coming out. Would you take the pill and let your hamster starve to death inside your womb?
Jess:
Pre-born humans are of inestimably more worth than chickens or pigs or any other animal. And while I love all animals, especially dogs, and believe we should protect the earth God gave us, I do not beleive that being a pro-abort and being a pro-animal environmentalist are compatible. You see, God’s wrath will soon wreak havoc on our planet if the infanticide does not stop. For the shedding of innocent blood requires a divine response. It is a pattern that is historically provable.
The fact that you can be outraged over the inhumane treatment of animals and still be a pro-abort is evidence of warped, twisted, and perverted thinking. I don’t mean to offend you, however, witholding the truth from you is immoral. Change you’re thinking, clean up, get right with God and then turn into the true steward of God’s green earth that he intended for you to be. As long as you are a pro-abort you are in fact, an environmental terrorist unaware.
Bystander, you’re banned for 2 weeks.
JKeller @ 9:54 AM
Do you know about Emmett Till?
Go read up about that – then we’ll talk.
Pornography is by definition sensational depictions used to arouse an emotional reaction. These pictures are sensationalistic. They are unsubstantiated and within absolutely no context. It is inappropriate to be peddling this trash to 11 year old children who are unlikely to have a clue what message is being attempted in the first place.
For a bunch that insists upon parental consent for virtually everything their kid sees, hears and does, this is an extreme violation of the rights of other parents to do the same.
Clearly these ‘activists’ were ashamed of themselves as this incident happened 5 years ago and apparently hasn’t repeated itself.
And yet you rail against porn? Seeing that makes me want to take my girlfriend to get an abortion right now, lol! Your inconsistancy is hillarious.
Sally, how is it “sensationalized”? It’s a simple, accurate picture of what “abortion” is.
By the way, do you consider this to be “porn”?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/holocaust00_1.jpg
Jkeller, as for whether hearts have been changed by seeing these images, read the comments here:
http://www.abortionno.org/AbortionNO/web_response.html
There are pages upon pages of hearts being changed.
And yet you rail against porn? Seeing that makes me want to take my girlfriend to get an abortion right now, lol! Your inconsistancy is hillarious.
Yolatango, that says a lot about you, and not about the sign holders. You probably want to be called “pro-choice” too.
Patricia, you wrote: “Are they torn limb from limb, eyes gouged out, feet ripped off, gutted, bloodied, mouths gaping as they struggle to get away from the abortionist’s cannula?”
Did you really say “eyes gouged out”??? ROTFL.
And they don’t struggle.
Did you really say “eyes gouged out”??? ROTFL.
Yes, SOMG, she did.
http://www.prolifesociety.com/displaypages/pages/home.aspx
Remember this?
https://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/05/breaking_news_a.html
Here’s the picture of the eye:
And they don’t struggle.
Do you monitor abortions where you work, with ultrasounds, SOMG? How would you know that they do not struggle?
If they can react to a pin prick, why would they not react to curettes and vacuums?
thanks Bethany, for the proof
we shouldn’t NEED to post this for Somg’s benefit, but APPARENTLY we do.
I’m not surprised actually that Somg would roll on the floor laughing when this is done
This is how you get your jollies eh, Somg?
Sally:
What an incongruous, hilarious and surely pitiable post. Do you really, really believe the words you wrote? What do you think Liberal sex education in public schools is? And the abortion photos are not substantiated? What do you think the remnants of the abortion of a human being look like, Campbell’s cream of chicken soup, or perhaps couscous al la ketchup? Or perhaps a dismembered Mr. Bill with a smiley face? How about a fresh slice of New York cheese cake with a cherry on top? Would those be more PC to you?
Context, I’ll give you context. A woman who has had either immoral or irresponsible sex now seeks to kill the result of that choice; the conception of a unique person made in the image of the Creator that is now being molded, knit and woven together in her womb. However, there are extremely evil organizations on the earth who are motivated, sponsored and inspired by satan himself, who seek to destroy these precious ones from God and that for profit. Is that PowerPoint enough for you?
Yes, you Liberals bend, deform, distort and maim the truth to fit your definition of things. Truthfully depicting abortion is not pornography. It is journalism at its highest; it is the ultimate expression of truth. It’s the photographs of Russian soldiers liberating Auschwitz. It’s the Passion of the Christ and his horrific death on a cross on a hilltop for the world to see, young and old alike. It’s portraying the truth and face of evil as it is and not the sanitized version Planned Parenthood skillfully markets. It’s the truth our children should see so that they are repulsed and reviled by even the thought of doing it or having one.
In fact Sally, lying about what these photos are is blasphemy. Your sad attempt at calling these photos pornography or calling good evil is actually very insulting to divinity. You don’t think God knows what abortion is and what it does to living flesh?
And what is the result of Liberal thinking and propaganda devoid of truth? A generation who thinks that safe sex is OK, that abortion is merely a choice, that gay marriage with anal sex and no procreation is OK, it’s portraying a woman as a pregnant man, it’s pushing the notion that God and prayer don’t belong in our schools, ad infinitum.
You must be a dues paying member of the NEA or simply have watched too much Oprah. My children will never attend a school you or others like you work at.
I can guarantee you that if my child saw that truck, and asked me about it, I would tell them that’s what people who don’t believe in the sanctity of life do to innocent children in the womb. I would say that our government has lost its way and no longer stands for the protection of every individual, even the most innocent in our society. I would tell him that the Democratic Party is directly responsible for the murder of 50,000,000 children nationwide since 1973 and to support any pro-abort Democrat makes them share in the guilt of this holocaust. I would tell him that he is an abortion holocaust survivor and teach him to thank God every day that he was born to two very God-fearing, God-loving parents who are committed to ending legalized abortion and that we are now passing this mantle on to him.
Excuse me while I go gag and puke from yet another post from a twisted, perverted, deceived, sterilized and totally sanitized mind absent of the ability to think logically or truthfully.
And they don’t struggle.
Posted by: SoMG at July 5, 2008 1:41 PM
________________________________________
I suppose Dr. Warren Hern was lying:
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/PBAHernJohnson.html
Bethany, a few points. First of all, in the two links you posted there is only one report of someone finding an eye. (The post of Jill’s you linked to links to the CPS site you linked to.) Secondly, the report is by Monica Migliorino Miller, whose integrity is (well let’s be polite) suspect. Thirdly, I doubt very much that the eye was “gouged” out. More likely the whole face was ripped up and the eye was one of the fragments. Fourthly, the abortion was later in pregnancy than 90% of abortions and is therefore atypical.
Chris:
Don’t expect one, in the highest possible state of denial a human can be in, i.e. psychopathy, to admit anything inhumane or should I say inhumam, about killing a baby in the womb.
I truly belive SoMG has lost its humanity.
Chris A., you quoted Dr. Hern: “The sensations of dismemberment flow through the forceps like an electric current.”
This means he can feel when the arms and legs get detached from the fetus. It does not mean or imply that the fetus struggles.
You need to use your eyes more and your imagination less when you read.
SoMG:
“This means he can feel when the arms and legs get detached from the fetus. It does not mean or imply that the fetus struggles. This means he can feel when the arms and legs get detached from the fetus. It does not mean or imply that the fetus struggles. This means he can feel when the arms and legs get detached from the fetus. It does not mean or imply that the fetus struggles. This means he can feel when the arms and legs get detached from the fetus. It does not mean or imply that the fetus struggles.”
What kind of person, who is not locked up in a mental institution, can say the things you say without consequence?
You are a demonically possessed freaking devil.
Can you hear me wretch at your post?
You represent the epitomy of what abortion is and I hope someday the world sees you for who you are, what you do, and what you promote.
I dare you to come out of your cave you pervert.
Jill, please ban this freak, this serial killer who pleasures him/herself on the agony of others.
HisMan, you wrote: “What kind of person, who is not locked up in a mental institution, can say the things you say without consequence?”
Answer: a medically-trained person. One of the things they teach in med school is how to objectively report emotion-laden facts.
SoMG @ 2:56 PM
SoMG – why of course – you’re right – actually they’re not struggling, their trying to tickle the abortionist.
You’re a fake SoMG, you’ve never actually performed a later-term abortion.
SoMG:
As I already knew and Chris now knows and soon all the bloggers on this site will know, you are a fraud, a freak, someone who gets off posting absoluteley outrageous words on this site.
Perhaps you don’t know that it’s illegal to pose as a licensed medical professional.
All you are is a punk….a wannabe nothing.
[eyeroll]
HisMan; I don’t believe Somg is actually a medical professional of any sort. For one thing she posts far too much on here to be a physician or any other type of medical professional (as in doctor etc).
She mustn’t have much of life or she is posting during work hours which means she has a very different job than we think.
Most of her posts are for shock value and therefore you should not respond nor allow yourself to be baited.
Her purpose on this board is to try to change the topic of discussion on posts, to misinform and to ridicule.
Her comments are not sincere and border on ludicrous. BEWARE!!!
Been gone all day. From skimming the last few posts…… I see this is one bizarre thread. Makes me very sad..
I happened upon this website while looking for a speakers’ bureau and I must say I’m horrified by this story. I would be outraged if these guys drove their truck of horrors around my child’s school. These crazy tactics don’t win supporters. I am Catholic and pro-life and this is just a repulsive thing to do to innocent children. How dare these men drive around children with these pictures! The police and school did the right thing, I’m sorry the court didn’t agree. The boys were likely throwing rocks because they didn’t enjoy being the victim of someone’s political statement. Shame on these men and any of you who support this. Children who are alive need protection too.
SoMG:
First of all, in the two links you posted there is only one report of someone finding an eye.
Obviously, logic doesn’t enter into reasoning with this one. One sticks a tool of destruction with the goal of dismembering a fellow human being in the tight confines of a mother’s womb, works to grab ahold of one limb after another in order to use force to tear it from the body, beheading as well with same such instrument, (grossly done at that since often the uterus is punctured or torn as a result and oftentimes even leaving, unknowingly, parts of that life) and one can naively and without the embarrassment of admitting to such stupidity make a statement that even doubts the removal of an eye in the process? Your ignorance surpasses even impossible statistical chance!
And beyond that, your statements re: the tactical response of the medically declared nerve sensitivity of the growing child in the womb have absolutely no meaning worth consideration knowing and viewing the actually recorded pictures of such infants recoiling from any instruments entering their life giving surroundings. (Also choose to avert your eyes from that now common technological assist as well?? And you were so trying to convince us of your state of the art knowledge. It’s…um…shall we say, rather limited.) I doubt that even a person with some kind of sick death wish for him/herself personally would even imagine such a choice of decapitation in same such manner unless he/she was completely psychotic.
You see, folks, in order for SoMG to live in such a clueless imagined world him/herself, you have to hide the evidence. And after living in a reality lacking world for a time one can eventually become just that…psychotic.
As they say…sin makes you stupid!
Umm, I think if Bystander is banned for 2 weeks..HisMan should be too.
“you are a fraud, a freak”
“All you are is a punk….a wannabe nothing.”
Fair is fair.
Gabriella’s Momma: i don’t think so. Did you see Bystander’s post? It was nasty. He has been getting more and more disgusting as this week went on.
Millie @ 5:37 PM
Millie – to some extent I agree with you. I think there is a place and a time to show these things.
Boys wanting to throw rocks though is interesting – because that’s showing an intolerance for the truth. Yet boys watch gore filled movies, and many play video games with violence. Why be upset? What are they upset about?
Are the pictures true? What do they show?
What’s disconcerting is that the outrage shown about the trucks is not directed towards what the trucks are showing.
Do you know about Emmett Till? Here’s the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till
Make sure you read about how his mother refused to close his casket at his funeral.
The trucks are the open casket of abortion.
The public outrage at the murder of Emmett Till influenced the civil rights movement.
Considering the age of the boys – they might have been looking at their siblings. You know – the ones who never even had a casket.
Maybe that’s why the boys were upset.
So who’s teaching them how to express that?
Yeah, I saw it.
I guess you’re okay with hypocrisy if you’re on the right side of the fence then, Patricia.
Well I’m not.
HisMan repeatedly called people killers, freaks, perv’s, etc. I’m not okay with Bystander’s posts but I’m not okay with HisMan’s either. He can get his point across better without calling people freaks, killers, and pervs.
So, fair is fair.
I am pro life. But as a mother of children from 3-17 I try to protect them as to what images to view on tv etc. I think this crosses the line and takes away my ability as a mother to protect my kids and truly teach them on my own about abstinence, sex, abortion etc. I am sure there are some parents who never have the conversation and therefore perhaps this will force a conversation that they otherwise may not have. But it is also hugely disrespectful to responsible parents and sensitive children who will be caught off guard and abruptly shown these images with no explanation or warning. It assumes that all of the kids at the middle school are children that are heading off to abort their babies and need a hard core lesson immediately. And it assumes the parents are not capable of educating their kids. I think they should take the truck and choose another spot to make the point known….Or drive a truck by with a pro life slogan rather than the pictures.
Elizabeth,
I am in full agreement with you. Jill has asked the mods to crack down on these juvenile moments.
The guidelines are up for a reason, so here’s my styfrofoam bat…
Hisman, this is the second time I have seen you insult JKeller, not to mention insulting other PCers.
Lay off the names like a big boy and we’ll hear you out.
Don’t like it? Take it up with Jill. They’re her rules.
Woo Hoo, THANK YOU, Carder!
It’s disheartening when people on my side continue to defend these poor actions, but your 7 p.m. post gave me some hope so thanks!
I think the bad effects of seeing these pictures are being exaggerated. Kids these days are more used to images of gore than their parents were when they were kids.
Thanks, Elizabeth, but Jill, please don’t censor HisMan on my account. I think readers will understand most clearly what RTLism in the USA is at heart by reading his posts.
Sally, how is it “sensationalized”? It’s a simple, accurate picture of what “abortion” is.
By the way, do you consider this to be “porn”?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/holocaust00_1.jpg
Posted by: Bethany at July 5, 2008 1:35 PM
……………..
Actually that picture is a work of art. Unposed, untouched and uncontrived. The van’s pics are contrived with the intention of being sensationalistic. There is no other intention behind them. They most certainly are not appropriate for viewing by children without the consent of their parents. Do you disagree with parental discretion Bethany?
Excuse me while I go gag and puke from yet another post from a twisted, perverted, deceived, sterilized and totally sanitized mind absent of the ability to think logically or truthfully.
Posted by: HisMan at July 5, 2008 2:14 PM
………………………………
Knock yourself out. Litterly. I’m sure it wouldn’t be the first time.
SoMG,
I don’t think HisMan’s insults represent the heart of RTLism in USA, and that’s why I call him out on it.
Sally,
I guess it all depends on which side you’re on. Because you feel that what was done to the Jews was horrific, you view those pictures as art. I’d be willing to bet that the German soldiers that killed those men and women would say that those pictures were quite sensationalist.
We feel that what is being done to the unborn is every bit as horrible as what was done to the Jews in the holocaust. To us, these pictures simply depict the truth. To you, who like the Germans believe that the unborn are no more persons than the Jews, these pictures are sensationalism.
I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder. We behold reality. You behold delusions. We behold the truth. The Germans behold propaganda.
Please, Sally, show me a “real” picture of an abortion. Show me what you would accept as the true remains of an aborted child. Show me, prove to me, that the pictures on that truck are fake and misrepresent what abortion looks like. Until you do, I’m afraid your arguments are just so much air…
SoMG,
How is it possible for you to argue with us that eyes are NOT gouged out, by pointing out that the only reason that eyeball was found, is because the head was ripped off. Oh well, then, that’s different. Sorry guys. No eyes were gouged. Heads were ripped off. Limbs were detached, but please stop trying to sensationalize abortion by claiming that eyes were gouged out!
Are you purposely trying to be gauche`? Or did you really not realize how ridiculous that statement sounded?
Deanna and Millie,
I agree that a school might not be the best place to show these pictures but as SoMG and Chris both pointed out, our kids see so much worse on Cartoon Network!
Personally, I think these pictures are a very valuable tool in the prolife wars, but I too, would hesitate to show them to middle school children. 5th through 8th grade is a really weird time. Some of those kids are still so innocent while others are way older than their years, but there is no way to know which ones will see the pictures. The possible damage done to the innocent ones, in my opinion, is not worth the risk.
I would however, have NO PROBLEM driving them around high schools. And I myself have taken part in many a Face the Truth Tour. But there is a time and a place for everything…and young school children, imo, is not the time.
Hisman,
I love you with all my heart and soul, and so much of what you say is right and good…it’s just that sometimes you cross the line and make it tough on the rest of us. We don’t want to call you out on two sentences when the other 20 are so awesome…
What can I say…please, try to refrain from direct insults???
Bethany asks: “I wonder what kind of sicko thought it would be a good idea to publish this picture from the holocaust?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/holocaust4.jpg
Certainly, it would have been better for people to just have conversations about it, rather than to see piles of medical waste. How disgusting that someone would publish those pictures, openly, for people to see and be grossed out by.”
EXCELLENT question, Bethany!
Sally,
I guess it all depends on which side you’re on. Because you feel that what was done to the Jews was horrific, you view those pictures as art. I’d be willing to bet that the German soldiers that killed those men and women would say that those pictures were quite sensationalist.
We feel that what is being done to the unborn is every bit as horrible as what was done to the Jews in the holocaust. To us, these pictures simply depict the truth. To you, who like the Germans believe that the unborn are no more persons than the Jews, these pictures are sensationalism.
I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder. We behold reality. You behold delusions. We behold the truth. The Germans behold propaganda.
Please, Sally, show me a “real” picture of an abortion. Show me what you would accept as the true remains of an aborted child. Show me, prove to me, that the pictures on that truck are fake and misrepresent what abortion looks like. Until you do, I’m afraid your arguments are just so much air…
Posted by: mk at July 5, 2008 8:47 PM
…………………
mk, the ability to capture the here and now with a photograph is art.
Arranging supposed fetus parts and taking pics of it is not. It is porn.
mk, ask Jill why the aborted fetus she was so interested in ‘comforting’ was not in pieces.
Just start there. Then we can go on to why you hate Germans.
Sally,
The baby that Jill comforted was not in pieces because it came out before it could be stabbed in the head. That’s why it was a “botched” abortion. That is what all the hulabaloo was about over the partial birth abortion. No way to control how fast the cervix would dilate, leaving the possibility open that the child would slip through before it could be properly killed.
As for capturing the here and now…where exactly is that definition of art? Again, YOU show ME a picture of an abortion captured in the here and now and prove to me that these pictures are fakes. You can’t. Because they’re not. So, please, enough already.
As to my feelings about Germans…I AM part German. Now, why do you hate Catholics?
OH LOOK, this is from the photographic school of art…
Hmmmmm…doesn’t look staged at all!
Oh I get it, that picture is porn. According to your definition Sally…
Those fetal parts are placed as they are to show size and age. They have pulled out certain parts to show that they are recognizable. They are not plastic parts. They are not rubber arms. They are real arms, real legs, real eyes…The fact that they have been highlighted does not make them porn any more that than this does…
Do you call this porn??? After all, they have removed the heart from the body! They aren’t showing it in it’s natural setting! I’ll let National Geographic know that they are now in the porn business.
I’m going to bed. I simply do not have the patience for this tonite.
Let me know if you find some “here and now” pictures of abortions, Sally.
Where’s your heart, Sally?
The baby Jill held was singled out for execution simply because of a genetically inherited disability. It was shelved to die alone in a soiled utility room, for goodness sake.
Seriously, Sally, Jill wasn’t looking to do “comfort care” when she she clocked in to work that day. That despised baby fell in her lap, so to speak, and life for her has never been the same since.
In all sincerity, if it had been you instead of Jill, how do you think you would have reacted?
Bethany,
American generals Patton and Eisenhower were so horrified and outraged by these piles of dead bodies in death camps they forced German citizens at gunpoint, including the elderly, children, and toddlers in their mothers’ arms, to march through the local death camps and see and smell the real thing. I would think they would have been more sensitive and simply shown the townspeople pictures and encouraged discussion about the work of art.
MK, you wrote: “How is it possible for you to argue with us that eyes are NOT gouged out, by pointing out that the only reason that eyeball was found, is because the head was ripped off. ”
I didn’t say the head was ripped off, I said the face was ripped into pieces. You should read more carefully.
Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma), you wrote: I don’t think HisMan’s insults represent the heart of RTLism in USA, and that’s why I call him out on it.”
I think your opinion is naive. Not all American RTLs are haters but the movement is at heart a hate movement.
Sally:
I have never knocked myself out. You however, to equate showing the truth of abortion to pornography, is exactly why we have abortion in this country. Think you can figure that out?
It’s called exchanging the truth for a lie.
MK:
The feeling is mutual. Point taken.
Elizabeth:
I’m am not sure what to say to you without offending you and I could say a lot because I kow exactly where you’re coming from. I suggest you focus on your own stuff and stop worrying about SoMG’s feelings.
Carder:
Don’t ever talk down to me again.
HisMan, you wrote: “Don’t ever talk down to me again.”
Awwwww. Da widdle guy doesn’t WIKE it when we talk down to him.
Sally,
The baby that Jill comforted was not in pieces because it came out before it could be stabbed in the head. That’s why it was a “botched” abortion. That is what all the hulabaloo was about over the partial birth abortion. No way to control how fast the cervix would dilate, leaving the possibility open that the child would slip through before it could be properly killed.
As for capturing the here and now…where exactly is that definition of art? Again, YOU show ME a picture of an abortion captured in the here and now and prove to me that these pictures are fakes. You can’t. Because they’re not. So, please, enough already.
As to my feelings about Germans…I AM part German. Now, why do you hate Catholics?
Posted by: mk at July 5, 2008 9:31 PM
……………
mk, the fetus that Jill describes was the product of an abortion. A terminated pregnancy. Why wasn’t it…the baby…… torn to pieces during the process?
I’m am not sure what to say to you without offending you and I could say a lot because I kow exactly where you’re coming from. I suggest you focus on your own stuff and stop worrying about SoMG’s feelings.
DUDE, all I said was to quit hurling insults like it’s your freaking job. End.of.story. I’m SICK of reading the insults ESPECIALLY from people on my side. You say plenty that doesn’t offend ME..but I’m tiiiiiiired of the insults.
Sally,
because it was an induced labor abortion, in these types abortions, the baby is not cut to pieces.
SoMG: 10:36: Not all American RTLs are haters but the movement is at heart a hate movement.
No, Some RTL’rs might be hateful, but the Right To Life movement is about LOVE.
SoMG:
———————————————————– edited by moderater.
Just kidding, you know I’m not a fetus, don’t you, or do you need a medical journal to figure that one out?
How are ya big guy or is it big girl? Havin’ a great day I hope.
According to Elizabeth and Carder and all the other political correctness police that have taken over on this site, I’m not suppose to call you what you are anymore.
Are you relaxing from your every day duties? How does a person like you recreate. Sorry to use the religious term. I mean, how does a guy like you get off? I mean, after killing a few babies in a week, what else can someone like you do to get the blood rollin’? Don’t tell me, you’re a bowler? Perhaps ping-pong? Oh, I remember, you’re an opera buff?
Hey, have you ever seen the movie, “Silence of the Lambs”? Guess what that dude really enjoyed?
So, I’ll just be nice to you from here on in. I’m going to let you talk about how you kill unborn babies, how you’re a real doctor, how a baby in the womb is a person but still can be killed because it’s invaded the mother’s body and she has a right to kill it, at your hands of course and at your vast knowlegde in the art and sceince of fetus destruction.
Let me compliment you on your skill. Tell me, where does one go to learn how to pull an innocent and defenseless baby from its mother’s womb, one limb at a time and to not feel any tinge of anything at doing that. I mean, it’s like you’re a soldier at war, trained to kill without feeling a thing.
You know, I admire real soldiers. Soldiers that face an enemy that can kill them back.
Well, have a good rest of the night SoMG. I hope you sleep well.
I find it HI-LARIOUS that not wanting to read insult after insult automatically makes me the “politically-correct” police.
Grow up, HisMan, seriously.
Elizabeth and HisMan and all:
I think we need to do some heavy praying tonight… We pro-lifers need to remain strong and united. There’s going to be some rough going ahead, I fear. God bless you all.
Elizabeth:
Think again about your desire to control what I say and your subconscious motives in attempting to do it.
I’m a Christian, but not a perfect Christian. I am absolutely outraged and horrified by the abortions committed in this country and that without consequence. I am horrified that the things SoMG believes and does can actually be posted on a public web site and not subject him/her/it to arrest. I am horrified that you are hgorrified for me calling this person for what he/she/it is. If the Lord wants to deal with the way I post, He will deal with me, not you.
To me, anyone who would hurt a defenselss child deserves to be called what they are. My Lord said that it would have been better that they not ever born. Now that’s a real insult, don’t ya think?
Let me say it here: “SoMG and every other pro-abort that reads this, someday you will realize that it would have been better that you would have never been born than to hurt another innocent child in the womb. I hope that doesn’t insult you”.
Liz, exactly how would you talk to someone who would hurt your daughter? Would you be nice to them? I bet you’d hurl a just a few choice verbal bombs at them.
Elizabeth, you can’t handle what I say for other reasons. Go deal with them on your own.
Mary:
I think that was absolutely insulting at what Eisenhower did. He would have never gotten away with that today with the Supreme Court we have. True justice would have been served. And Hitler, we should have never bombed the living crap out of Germany to force them to a surrender. How dare Ike force those who either participated in, supported, or did not fight against the murder of innocent Jews to encounter full force what they did. This guy must have just been a macho man trying to get off being a DUDE, don’t you think? I think they should have court-marshaled Ike for doing this, how dare he, treat evil the way it deserved to be treated. What do you think Elizabeth? Don’t you think Eisenhower needed a course in anger management and political correctness. Perhaps he should have just had them all stand in a corner for an hour or memorize Dr. Spock? What exactly would have been the correct course of action for a truly sensitive, fully feminized and controlled man to be like?
Yes Janet:
I agree.
Prayer is needed that pro-lifers get some backbone and stand up for what abortion truly is, MURDER. The MURDER of people. Perhaps pro-lifers really don’t believe that abortion is murder? If they did, don’t you think they would really do something against it?
Look, if abortion is to end a price will have to be paid. That’s just the reality of it.
If born children were being killed en masse the way unborn children are being killed do you think we’d be wasting our time on this site trying to convince people like SoMG that it was wrong and listening to people like Elizabeth whine that I was being insulting?
If someone were threatening to kill my children do you think I’d be posting on this site? No, I’d be armed to the hilt ready to protect them.
Pro-aborts have to be laughing at us. We are just paper tigers, wimps who don’t do a damn thing and aren’t willing to risk anything substantive to end this holocaust once and for all.
This site is just about making pro-lifers feel less guilty for not doing a thing about abortion. Go ahead ban me, I could care less because I know what I say is the truth.
Know this, our land has been polluted by the shed blood of innocent children. It cries out to the Creator for justice. He will answer.
HisMan, you wrote: “Hey, have you ever seen the movie, “Silence of the Lambs”?”
Yes, I also went to school with one of the stars. It’s a pretty good movie although I don’t think it quite deserves its whole mega-success.
Many people seem to think Dr. Hannibal Lektor is a villian, but he’s an anti-hero. The villians are Buffalo Bill and Dr. Chilton. We all take pleasure in his implied torture and murder of Dr. Chilton (“I’m having an old friend for dinner.”) Ted Levine’s demonstration of acting skill was IMHO much better than Sir Anthony Hopkins’ whiney drawl and campy faces and also than Jodie Foster’s wooden interpretation.
Far and away the best movie version of a Thomas Harris novel is BLACK SUNDAY. It contains at least three really world-class demonstrations of acting talent/skill: Robert Shaw’s as the morose counterterrorist, Bruce Dern’s as the crazy blimp pilot, and Marthe Keller’s as the terrorist who sexually manipulates the crazy blimp pilot. Also the directing by John Frankenheimer (who directed the original MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE) is top-level with one of the most exciting final chase scenes I’ve ever seen: two police helicopters pursuing a blimp intersperced with shots of the superbowl. (None of these details are spoilers. The screenplay does not attempt to conceal the plot. If anything, it expects you to have read the novel which I believe was a big bestseller.)
Besides being one of the finest actors of his generation, Robert Shaw had a rare vocal technique and a high, penetrating top-voice. In BLACK SUNDAY he demonstrates by out shouting a helicopter.
You wrote: “…where does one go to learn how to pull an innocent and defenseless baby from its mother’s womb, one limb at a time and to not feel any tinge of anything at doing that.”
Ummmmmmmm, today, med school. Soon, (within a decade, I think) training in an underling medical profession will be enough.
Really, I’m not horrified by what you post. I just really can’t read through all the insults to what you’re ACTUALLY trying to say. When all you do is hurl insults, the actual INTENT of what you’re trying to say is lost.
Don’t try to psycho-analyze me because you can’t handle a conversation like an adult. That isn’t my problem, it’s your’s.
Abortion is a horrifying thing, there is no doubt about that, but I can at least maintain some sense of maturity about myself to not have to insult people who REALLY could care less what I have to say. You DO GET that when you hurl insults like that, you give people like SoMG, Bystander, Jkeller EXACTLY what it is that they want? VALIDATION. That they are RIGHT, and that we’re all a bunch of nutjobs. DO YOU REALLY NOT SEE THAT?
And SoMG couldn’t hurt my daughter. Not through the computer anyway, so I find no need to hurl insults towards him/her. ALSO, if SoMG is who he/she says he/she is, people go WILLINGLY to have their children murdered. He’s not jumping out of the bushes punching pregnant mom’s in the stomach in the hopes that they lose their babies. The women go VOLUNTARILY. (And yes, I know a lot of them are scared, confused, coerced, etc.) THIS does not change the fact that the mothers STILL TAKE PART IN THIS.
You seem to think in some way I am defending SoMG or whoever else you were calling names. (I can’t tell since you basically insult anyone who disagrees with you) I AM NOT DEFENDING THEM. This is a blog to DISCUSS and DEBATE pro-life issues, not HURL STUPID INSULTS at everyone who disagrees with us. If I wanted to see THAT, I’d go to Amanda Marcotte’s blog or somebody else’s, because that’s what goes on there. Have some class, HisMan is all I’m saying.
If you want to see a really outstanding portrayal of a character like Hannibal–a psychopathically arrogant serial killer who takes infantile pleasure from evil deeds, watch Charles Laughton’s portrayal of Sir Humphery Pengallan in Alfred Hitchcock’s flawed early masterpiece JAMAICA INN.
Elizabeth, you wrote: “And SoMG couldn’t hurt my daughter.”
I wouldn’t, even if I could.
MK, you wrote: “How is it possible for you to argue with us that eyes are NOT gouged out, by pointing out that the only reason that eyeball was found, is because the head was ripped off. ”
I didn’t say the head was ripped off, I said the face was ripped into pieces. You should read more carefully.
———————————————-
Well, thank you very much for the correction. That just makes everything better, now that we have read it more carefully. (/sarcasm)
We are reading comments like this from SoMG without batting an eye, and yet we’re upset about HisMan’s “punk” comment? Is this for real????
HisMan, I, for one, hope you don’t go anywhere. I appreciate reading your comments and opinions here.
Kel,
I appreciate them too..when they don’t include calling people perv’s, punks, freaks, wannabe nothing’s. Even if it is the “truth.” I mean, seriously, where’s the sense in that? You may enjoy reading the insults over and over again, but I am about engaging in an actual DEBATE or DISCUSSION, and learning from others. Like I said, if I wanted to deal with people calling each other names all the time, I’d go back to high school.
:shudders:
No, actually, I wouldn’t..but I hope you get my point. SoMG purposely says shocking things to, I don’t know, get people to insult him/her so that he/she can point and laugh and say, “Look at the crazy pro-lifers.” I prefer not to give people the ammunition for that sort of thing..I can OBVIOUSLY see others don’t understand that perspective. Whatev.
Well, Kel, what’s YOUR explanation for how that eye in the picture got there? Do you think it was “gouged out” during the abortion as Patricia said (and started this whole exchange?) It’s difficult to picture how that would happen. It’s not easy to extract an eye from an intact head. Maybe it was gouged out after the abortion, but why would anyone do that? And having gouged it out, why would someone then throw it away? No, I think the “gouged out” theory is an implausible one.
Elizabeth:
I have sent Jill a lengthy e-mail about your whining. I really don’t think you care one iota about what I have to say no matter what it was and I am not sure why you have a problem with me as this is not the first time you have interuppted my banter with a murderer. If you want to correct me directly get my e-mail from Jill, but to cause dissension among us pro-lifers is very destructive and that’s what you’re doing.
Now, here’e some of the insults you have hurled at me:
“you can’t handle a conversation like an adult”.
I can assure you baby Liz, I have endured more suffering and more trials than you could ever imagine handling. I grew up dirt poor in the streets of NY and fought my way to survival, endured more racist comments because of my dark olive colored skin than your precious little ego could have taken. I’ve been beaten by priests and mocked by coaches. I endured five years of engineering school. I’ve started two businesses. I’ve lost my mom and dad, two brothers, and a nephew. I almost lost my now 25 year old to a botched appendectomy and my now 12 year old to a doctor’s proposed abortion. I suffered for five years worried about my son’s safety while he piloted a combat aricraft fighting a war that pro-abort, Liberal cowards can’t stomach. I’ve raised five great kids, been through 4 or 5 major economic downturns, and have been a victor in all these trials because of one reason, Jesus Christ. And you have the gall to judge me for calling a murdering pro-abort what he is. Now this is difficult to understand.
So Liz, just ignore me, I would appreciate that because I will not stop calling murderers what they are. I will not buy into the semanticization of abortion. If Jill wants to ban me, that’s her prerogative, it’s her site and it would be her loss.
Kel:
I appreciate the good words. While I don’t post to get kudos, I am human. I post to serve the Lord. To speak where He would speak to those who need to hear it. I can assure you, God can silence me in a heart beat using various and numerous ways. My purpose is not to insult, but I will not fail to call a spade a spade, ever, and I will not compromise my values and my freedom to speak for anyone.
SoMG:
You are a liar and a thief.
Abortion is not a joke. I am totally aware of your subtle mocking of me and manipulation of the less-informed on this site. I know when I am dealing with a devil.
To hurt anyone’s daughter, born or unborn, is to hurt everyone’s daughter. And to tell Elizabeth that you “would not hurt her daughter” unless of course, she wanted you too is laughable and a cruel and underhanded and sick comment.
Tell me this SoMG, whose daughter would you hurt, if not Elizabeth’s? How about Bethany, would you hurt her daughter? How about my daughter, would you hurt her? How about my friend’s pregnant wife’s son, would you hurt him? I can guarantee this SoMG, you would only be able to hurt those I love over my dead body.
To diminish the value of one precious life is to sentence all to death.
Face who you are.
Wow! No one’s ever called me a thief before.
That truck is awesome. I would love t=for it to come around the elementary schools around my neighborhood. My kids would get to explain to all the other kids what abortion is before Planned Parenthood gets their claws into them. You who are afraid of what your children might see should have already told your children about abortion and Planned Parenthood. Do you not tell them about child predators either. Get your heads out of the sand and stop the evil of abortion. Planned Parenthood is already infiltrating your schools and “sanitizing” (thanks for the word HisMan) them. They can tear babies from your daughter’s womb and they can push BC on them in those same schools without even needing to get your permission. You people who have a problem with this truck really need to WAKE UP!!!
Janet, you wrote: “Some RTL’rs might be hateful, but the Right To Life movement is about LOVE.”
Louis Farrakhan said something similar when Arsenio Hall asked him whether the Nation of Islam is an army of hate. He said “No, it’s an army of LOVE.”
In the USA the RTL movement’s core driving force–what most motivates Americans to send money to RTL organizations–is twofold: there’s the gratification people get by judging and condemning others and also the indulgence of the fantasy that they can suppress or control their children’s sexuality. It’s not a serious effort to reduce the abortion rate.
Look at HisMan–he thinks he knows whether or not his son is a virgin, in spite of the well-known fact that many people who are equally strongly convinced that their children are virgins are wrong, and that even well-behaved adolescents who don’t lie about anything else often lie to their parents about sex. He’s obsessed with protecting his kids from imaginary dangers.
SoMG,
I didn’t say the head was ripped off, I said the face was ripped into pieces. You should read more carefully.
Well that answered my question anyway. You really did know what you were saying and were just going for the shock value.
Friedrich Nietzsche:
Battle not with monsters
lest ye become a monster
and if you gaze into the abyss
the abyss gazes into you.
HisMan, in response to Elizabeth’s comment “you can’t handle a conversation like an adult” you wrote: “I can assure you baby Liz, I have endured more suffering and more trials than you could ever imagine handling.”
What does this have to do with whether or not you can handle a conversation like an adult? I don’t see the connection.
It’s sort of like when people say that McCain should be President because of his experience in the military three decades ago. Or when Kerry said the same thing about himself. I just don’t see the connection. How does McCain’s experience of remaining in a bamboo cell for five years and being tortured qualify him to be President? Do Presidents have to remain in small cells doing nothing for long periods of time, or endure torture? The only thing I know of that he actually did at the time is he refused his captors’ offer to send him back to the USA, in order to deny them the propaganda advantages which would have accrued. Maybe I’m missing something but to me this sounds like very poor judgement. Couldn’t he have done more damage to his captors’ image by going home and writing and speaking about his experiences as their prisoner and the plight of those left behind? His decision to remain and endure more torture suggests a martyr complex. Certainly no one can blame him for developing one during his experience as a POW, but his persistant irritability and his habit of going out of his way to alienate people he doesn’t like suggest that his martyr complex may still be unresolved. Again this is not his fault–it’s the fault of his captors/torturers–but I’m pretty sure we don’t need someone with an unresolved martyr complex on one hand and his other hand on the nuclear trigger. Isn’t that what we’re trying to prevent in Iran?
You wrote: “I grew up dirt poor in the streets of NY…”
No kidding! I grew up in the Village when it was a cheap place to live. Across the street from Washington Square Park. Which high school did you go to? I went to Stuyvesant.
You wrote: “I’ve been beaten by priests…”
When? Where? Why? How often? Who were the priests? How did it make you feel about Christianity?
You wrote: “… and mocked by coaches.”
Better than being cocked by roaches, I suppose. NY is famous for roaches.
Truthseeker @#3:31,
Many of us have a problem with this truck because it is gruesome and gross. Yes, I hate abortion, I think it is horrible. However I would not want to be walking around with my daughter (16 mos) and have her point at the pictures and ask me in her little voice “What’s that?” I would not want any young child to be exposed to that sort of gore and violence because it would terrify them. Children aren’t going to understand abortion until they are far more mature. Why corrupt a young child’s mind that cannot fully comprehend what is going on. Why scare them with gory images that look like they are straight out of an R-rated film?
I am pro-life. I used to be pro-choice. And it was never because I saw these sort of images plastered on posters in the middle of my college campus. It is because I saw my daughter’s first ultrasound and I saw her tiny little heart beating and I saw a person. I can’t deny that she was a person then.
So these images don’t really help the pro-life cause much. They just scare people and make parents upset because they don’t want their small children looking at stuff that could give them horrid nightmares.
Sally,
How funny that you are still harping on how that little one escaped his mothers womb intact (even tho it’s been explained to you every which way to Sunday), yet did not address the pictures yet.
At least have the courage to say that I am right and that you are incapable of producing a single picture of a “here and now” abortion that would prove that these pictures are fake. And admit that “photographic art” is NOT about capturing the here and now, but about communicating through pictures, whether manipulated or not. And acknowledge that even National Geographic uses the same tactics when showing the human heart.
Big girls admit when they are wrong.
MK, you wrote: “You … were … going for the shock value. ”
And what, pray, was Patricia going for she used the phrase “eyes gouged out”? And (returning to the subject of the thread) what are the people with the big pictures of abortuses going for?
Richard Wagner (DIE MEISTERSINGER VON NURNBERG):
“Wahn! Wahn!
SoMG,
HisMan, you wrote: “Hey, have you ever seen the movie, “Silence of the Lambs”?”
Yes, I also went to school with one of the stars. It’s a pretty good movie although I don’t think it quite deserves its whole mega-success.
No you didn’t. Anthony Hopkins grew up in Wales. Jodie Foster grew up in California and Ted Levine grew up in Ohio.
Maybe you meant to say that you went to school with one of the walk ons, or one of the make up artists?
I mean really, I can say that I went to school with Bonnie Hunt, but I’d be lying. She went to my school after I graduated. For that matter you could claim to have gone to school with James Cagney, but that would be stretching the truth, don’t you think?
SoMG,
in Flucht geschlagen,
w
Doyle, 9:14 PM, thank you!
MK, by “school” I meant college. I swear to you I went to college with one of the stars of SotL.
I can’t quite believe it but you wrote: “… you could claim to have gone to school with James Cagney, but that would be stretching the truth, don’t you think?”
LOL This is really funny and a little eerie. Cue the Twilight Zone music. As it happens, I went to Stuyvesant HS in NYC and that is where James Cagney went to high school. Everybody laughed about the fact that a tough-guy actor, not a scientist or mathematician, is Stuy’s most famous alumnus. (Oops some of you may not know that Stuyvesant is a selective public magnet school famous for math and science. Stuy students win Westinghouse awards and compete in the Olympic Math Team and all that sort of ultra-nerdy stuff.) If we agree to ignore the time dimension, then I did go to school with JC. I’m not kidding, I swear it’s true.
Oh I see, you already knew about JC and that i went to Stuy from my post to HisMan. OK, I take it back, it’s not funny or eerie.
Hisman,
First, my sincerest apologies if you felt I was talking down to you.
You didn’t like that, nor do the other commenters like reading some of your choice words to them either.
Yllas didn’t like my admonishing her. But she crossed the line as it concerns Jill’s rules, and Jill has entrusted me and the other moderators to call foul when others, regardless of their position, do the same.
I, personally, do not want to see this discord among PLer’s; we’re all on the same team, after all.
You have INCREDIBLE points to make as pertains to this blog. So does Arsenault. So does Carla. And Bethany. They, like you, have given their lives to Our Lord, yet they manage to show some restraint at the keyboard and maintain a sense of respect to whomever they address.
We’re only asking you to do the same.
SoMG,
I find that people who need to spell out their connections to “greatness” (ie: I went to a prestigious school filled with math geniuses/went to college with a bit player in a movie/I like opera so I must be classy AND smart…) are trying to compensate for their own smallness. When Jodi Foster comes on this blog and says “I went to school with the math genius SoMG”, then I’ll be impressed. Until then I can only wonder why you yourself have not accomplished anything noteworthy, what with all the advantages you claim to have had.
You constantly allude to accomplishments, but fail to actually name them. When I was in high school I created a product called “Jelter”, a combo of jelly and butter. Is this the same way you “created” and named a drug? I notice you never claim the drug has been marketed. Why is that? Because it ranked right up there with my “Jelter”…unimportant, silly and useless?
MK, you should learn MEISTERSINGER. Anyone who quotes Nietzsche should know Wagner.
SoMG,
I did go to school with JC. I’m not kidding, I swear it’s true.
Unless you’re 80 years old you did NOT go to school WITH James Cagney. You attended the same school that he did, but you did not go WITH him. Hence, the stretching the truth line…
There is a difference between going to school WITH the STAR of a movie and attending the same school as an actor. For heavens sake. I live on the same planet as Robert DeNiro. I guess you could say we breathe the same air. Hardly impressive.
SoMG,
MK, you should learn MEISTERSINGER. Anyone who quotes Nietzsche should know Wagner.
Next you’ll be claiming you helped him compose his music…lol. Did you go to school “with” him too?
SoMG,
I must admit, that I have never listened to opera in my life. Then I saw that guy sing it on “Britains go Talent” and was fascinated. Listening to you go on about it actually does peak my curiosity. Thank you for that. Not running out and buying any, but I do look at it differently now.
It doesn’t change the fact that I view you as a more tragic character than any opera has produced…
Off to mass, be back in a few hours. I’ll be interested in your responses…
I appreciate you HisMan because you speak the truth. Yesterday got just a little out of hand but I understand why you got so angry.
Do you get to see opera often, SoMG? What have you seen lately?
I posted awhile back that my sister was recently in a Stravinsky choral/dance piece at Lincoln Center. Did you get to see that?
MK: you are GREAT! The fact that Somg didn’t name the drug tells me there never was a drug except the ones she uses to quell her conscience.
I would agree that you are a thief of sorts: you steal the lives of babies.
And the purpose of the pics on the trucks to show people exactly what happens during an abortion – which is a silent holocaust. The baby is hidden and has no voice. People being lined up and shot dead into mass graves have witnesses. The only witness in abortion is the doctor and they don’t always talk.
Somg you should try Mass too. It might heal you of your many ills.
MK, I am most definitely not a math genius. I know some bona fide math geniuses and I am not one of them.
Tell me, did you publish an article about “Jelter” in the Journal of Biological Chemistry?
And you’re right, my drug was never marketed that I know of. Last I heard it was in baboon trials. (Do you have any idea how long it takes to get a new drug which is a macromolecule purified from a biological culture to the market? That’s an extremely ambitious task to undertake. Maintaining sterility in large-scale cell cultures is an area of study in itself. First you need to grow and purify enough to do your animal trials. Then you need to convince the FDA people that you can make it pure enough for them to let you start clinical trials. Just the paperwork for proving this takes several person-years. Purity is just the beginning, you also have to show it’s not denatured or oxidized or any of the other things that happen to macromolecules if you don’t handle them carefully. An intravenous injection of denatured macromolecules can kill. And all this is before you get to begin your first clinical trial.)
The company prospered because of it anyway. Meeting scheduled milestones is good for a company. And it answered part of a small but not insignificant basic science question.
MK, did you not see that I prefaced my claim to have gone to school with JC with the conditional clause “If we agree to ignore the time dimension” ? What do you think that means? I’m afraid you are failing to impress me with your reading ability.
Patricia, you wrote: “The fact that Somg didn’t name the drug tells me there never was a drug except the ones she uses to quell her conscience.”
Can you think of any other possible reasons I might avoid mentioning the name of the drug on this board? I bet you can.
You wrote: “I would agree that you are a thief of sorts: you steal the lives of babies.”
Someone who does that is a murderer, not a thief. A thief is someone who steals property.
You wrote: “… the purpose of the pics on the trucks to show people exactly what happens during an abortion…”
Is that really the only purpose? You think the people who chose which pictures to post on the truck used no critera at all except authenticity? How do you think they chose among the many available equally authentic images of abortuses? You don’t think there might have been secondary criteria as well? Now let’s suppose there WERE secondary criteria, what might they have been? Hmmmmmmmmm.
MK, if you don’t know any operas, start with Mozart. If you like family comedy THE MARRIAGE OF FIGARO; if you’re more into sex and violence and confrontation with the supernatural go for DON GIOVANNI.
HisMan, I MAY have been inclined to agree with any of your ranting about me if CARDER, A MODERATOR hadn’t agreed with me! But Carder called you out as well, so it’s really NOT in my imagination. And oooooh, you emailed Jill about this, good for you. Let me know how that works out for you. Actually…don’t. I’m cool, and I’m pretty sick of this beating my head against a brick wall thing with a lot of the people here..so I’m out. Anybody who wants to chat with me, hit me up on facebook..I’m on Amanda and Rae’s friend list if you want to find me! Peace!
SoMG: 5:13: In the USA the RTL movement’s core driving force–what most motivates Americans to send money to RTL organizations–is twofold: there’s the gratification people get by judging and condemning others and also the indulgence of the fantasy that they can suppress or control their children’s sexuality. It’s not a serious effort to reduce the abortion rate.
You’ve really changed your tune lately. You used to talk about how great abortion is. Now you knock those who oppose it, by accusing us of the same tactics that you all (PC’rs) have used for years. Running out of good things to say about abortion?
Elizabeth,
I sincerely hope you will reconsider. I will miss you and your input on this blog, as well as updates on your beautiful daughter.
Aww, well thanks Mary! You can get my email from MK or any of the mod’s if you would like to keep in touch!
OK my pro-life brothers and sisters, Carder, Bethany, Janet, Kel, Patricia, Liz, Jill, Stud, MK, Truthy (a term of endearment), I repent of the insults. This is the power of our faith in action and proof that Jesus lives. We can fight, then make up, and then love each other again. We’re gonna beat this evil called abortion.
I have to admit that my absolute disgust and anger at abortion and those who commit it is sometimes very, very difficult to control. Pray for me that I can learn to allow the Lord to control this dark side of me and it is dark, it’s a survival mechanism I learned on the street just to survive.
Liz, I didn’t ask you to leave nor has anyone else asked you to leave. Now, I ask you not to leave. I apologize as we need you here as your perspective is extremely valuable. You’re right about SoMG, he/she/it plants seeds of discord and he/she/it plays me like a fiddle. Now don’t take this as an insult; to not leave would show a great deal of maturity. So, can we make up now?
Besides, I’m going to be very busy for the next few weeks and for the most part won’t be around so you guys can have at it unless my laptop works in Park City and Yellowstone.
I also apologize to myself for allowing SoMG to get to me. He/she/it purposely states horrific stuff that he/she/it knows will get under my skin and purposely provokes me. This is why Jesus says to turn the other cheek so that evil cannot win.
MK:
I’ve got to say that I really appreciate you.
SoMG, you are defeated, not by me, not by the pro-lifers on this site, but by Christ and His shed blood. And you will always be defeated. You see, you can provoke us all to anger and strife but because of his shed blood, we believers can always come back together since we are His redeemed and His Spirit lives inside of us. Although we Chrsitians still have a sin nature that dwells within us Jesus has said, “greater am I that lives in you than he that lives in the world….and I have overcome the world”.
The evil and discord you try to sow, God will always turn into good. This is what frustrates satan so much. Every day he wakes up a loser.
However, please tell us if you’re are a man or woman. It’s difficult to address you as a he/she/it. From now on and for the record and until corrected, I will be calling you a he by default since I really can’t believe a woman would say the things you say.
Have a nice Lord’s day SoMG.
Hisman,
Peace.
Elizabeth,
Please don’t go.
(Why do I feel like I’m repeating myself these days?)
HisMan, I MAY have been inclined to agree with any of your ranting about me if CARDER, A MODERATOR hadn’t agreed with me! But Carder called you out as well, so it’s really NOT in my imagination. And oooooh, you emailed Jill about this, good for you. Let me know how that works out for you. Actually…don’t. I’m cool, and I’m pretty sick of this beating my head against a brick wall thing with a lot of the people here..so I’m out. Anybody who wants to chat with me, hit me up on facebook..I’m on Amanda and Rae’s friend list if you want to find me! Peace!
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) at July 6, 2008 10:45 AM
Elizabeth I’m sad to see you go, but I think like Amanada and Rae before you, you are simply showing that you all are very very immature.
It’s rather interesting that the three of you left not over the prolife issue but over homosexuality. I wonder WHY you threesome feel so threatened over this issue?
It bothers me that you never even responded to my post. My post to you on the other thread was not hostile but asked you some genuine questions.
I wish you luck and many blessings.
MK, did you not see that I prefaced my claim to have gone to school with JC with the conditional clause “If we agree to ignore the time dimension” ? What do you think that means? I’m afraid you are failing to impress me with your reading ability.
The point SoMG, was that if you can stretch the truth to claim that you went to school WITH James Cagney, you could also stretch the truth and say you went to school WITH a bit player from Silence of the Lambs.
Your reading skills are none to impressive either.
And trust me, impressing you is right up there with touching my sons socks on my list of things I love to do…
SoMG,
Someone who does that is a murderer, not a thief. A thief is someone who steals property.
No, thief is someone that takes something they have no right to take…like the life of an innocent human being.
You’re always going on about how abortion has always been with us, and always been acceptable…and yet 2500 years ago, Hippocrates coined an oath that ALL physicians took, swearing NEVER to take the life of the unborn…
Abortionists have stolen the Hippocratic oath among other things…
SoMG,
Is that really the only purpose? You think the people who chose which pictures to post on the truck used no critera at all except authenticity? How do you think they chose among the many available equally authentic images of abortuses?
The purpose, the ONLY purpose is to show that these abortions are taking place on PEOPLE. Just as I showed Sally, pictures are taken that get the message across most efficiently. National Geographic could easily have shown a whole lot of other photos of hearts, but they chose that one because it showed ALL of what a heart is. We choose the pictures we choose because they best show the HUMANITY of the victims.
I give you the same challenge. Show me pictures of abortions that make it look any more sanitized, any more acceptable…Go ahead. I dare you.
No, thief is someone that takes something they have no right to take…like the life of an innocent human being.
You’re always going on about how abortion has always been with us, and always been acceptable…and yet 2500 years ago, Hippocrates coined an oath that ALL physicians took, swearing NEVER to take the life of the unborn…
Abortionists have stolen the Hippocratic oath among other things…
Posted by: mk at July 6, 2008 12:48 PM
Point well made, MK. My 16 year old pointed this out to me as we were driving to her friends house.
Her take: this woman has absolutely NO morals what-so-ever. How astute of a teen to recognize a cop-out when she sees it!
Back to the original point of this thread, these “truth trucks ” are indeed a volatile issue, but I’m all FOR them. The more the better.
Yes, there ARE children who will see them and be “scarred”…but the MSM refuses to portray the UGLY REALITY of abortion. SOMEONE has to do it.
If you’re a parent and are incensed at your kids seeing these images, then TALK TO YOUR KIDS. They’re going to see all kinds of horrific images in todays world given the internet, movies, television, etc.
Kids will also see “road kill” in the streets and be scarred from that as well. Abortion is road kill…like it or not.
I remember being absolutely HORRIFIED the one and ONLY time I saw a man hunting. He was hunting deer in a non=hunt area and we happened to be there. That beautiful animal lay there gasping for breath and bleeding all over the place…as he dragged it to his truck and just treated it as if it were a tree limb.
Yes, it woke me up to what hunting is. It turned me off to hunting for life. Yes, my parents explained it to me. This was unacceptable to my 5 year old mind and still is.
The world is an ugly place. Kids are going to see many ugly things and it’s YOUR responsibility as a parent to alert them of things. You’re never going to be able to shield them from everything they see, unfortunately.
If we don’t instill the value of human life to kids, teach them to respect it, and honor it, then we are lost as a society.
Kids today grow up WAY TOO FAST. Reality is shoved in their faces everywhere they look. They need to see the reality of abortion…as do ADULTS.
Not only have the liberals “sanitized” abortion, they’ve STERILIZED it.
TALK TO YOUR CHILDREN, PEOPLE!!!!!
Hisman,
I hear ya. I often have to walk away from the computer before I post, lest I say something I’ll regret.
You have so many, many amazing things to say.
You add so much to this site. I understand how easy it is to “react” rather than “act”…it happens to all of us.
Don’t let it stop you tho brother. Your “good” words FAR outweigh your bad ones…just remember that the bad ones often get remembered more than the good ones. If a person is focusing on their anger and being defensive then they are no longer really listening. And it’s a shame that even one of your brilliant thoughts would go unheard.
Elizabeth,
Don’t you dare leave. Breathe into a paper bag, put your head between your knees, call me on the phone, scream into a pillow, just take a break for a day or two…
But don’t you dare leave.
Without your ability to reach the pro choicers, by being a pro lifer on this site who doesn’t dance every step that us extremists do, everyone will think that all pro lifers are as fanatical as me.
You give us all a deeply needed balance. You and PIP and Rae, make us realize that we don’t OWN the pro life movement. You can’t give up now. WE NEED YOU!
ARE YOU LISTENING YOUNG LADY?????
“Without your ability to reach the pro choicers on this site who don’t dance every step that us extremists do, everyone with think that all pro lifers are as fanatical as me.”
MK: do you think you are an extremist? Do you see yourself as a radical prolifer?
@Mike: funny you mention the hunting analogy. My dad went hunting when he was a 30-something and after he killed a rabbit he felt so terrible he said he could never kill anything after that just for sport. (He did kill a huge snapping turtle when I was a leettle girl – I remember it well, but that was different)
Patricia,
Yes, I do. I hold the signs, protest at the clinics and spend every waking hour either praying for or addressing this issue.
I too view homosexual behavior as sinful, feel that children should be raised (if at all possible) by a mother and father, think sex ed is overrated, think we are all oversexed…I’d gladly dumpster dump to rescue these little ones from garbage cans…
My way of getting my point across might be different, but I don’t think there is a pro choicer here that does not know how STRONGLY pro life I am.
Yes there are those that are more extreme…but not as many as you think. I go right up to that line, and only barely don’t cross it.
Well, now you guys made me smile and not want to leave.
You guys suck you know that? (Meant in the nicest way of course)
I do understand how abortion can anger us all and force us into “attack mode” so to speak. It makes me upset to the point of tears quite a bit. And all I really try to do is bring those who lose it back into a productive discussion. Maybe I’m not the most eloquent in my explanations but I try really hard to be as fair as I can be.
Patricia,
It really had nothing to do with the homosexual issue at all that I was going to leave..it had to do with being called the “politically correct” police when I simply don’t want to read insult after insult on this thread. I reiterated it in that thread because truthseeker decided to keep LAST WEEK’S going after I thought that was done. If your questions were genuine, I apologize and will get to them as soon as I have something in my stomach!
It’s rather interesting that the three of you left not over the prolife issue but over homosexuality. I wonder WHY you threesome feel so threatened over this issue?
I didn’t think Elizabeth was leaving over homosexuality. I thought that she was fed up with people thinking that just because they believe they are right, they have the right to say whatever they want. That kind of thinking doesn’t get anyone anywhere because instead of discussing issues, people sit around calling each other freaks or worse, at once convinced that they are justified in such behavior and irate that the other person believes the same. It’s stupid and immature.
Speaking of immature, I think the “if you leave then you’re just being immature!” guilt-tripping is kind of obnoxious. If someone is so disgusted by the atmosphere or tone of a certain place, and they feel like visiting that place is not worth the frustration that it causes them, then I think that’s a very mature decision to make.
Oh, sorry Elizabeth, I didn’t mean to speak for you. I wasn’t sure if you were around still. ;)
Alexandra,
I agree that if a person needs to leave they should.
and that it is more mature to admit you can’t handle something than to torture yourself…
Just not Elizabeth. She must stay. Because I’m the mom and I said so…;)
Elizabeth,
That’s my girl…hugs!
Patricia,
It really had nothing to do with the homosexual issue at all that I was going to leave..it had to do with being called the “politically correct” police when I simply don’t want to read insult after insult on this thread. I reiterated it in that thread because truthseeker decided to keep LAST WEEK’S going after I thought that was done. If your questions were genuine, I apologize and will get to them as soon as I have something in my stomach!
Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) at July 6, 2008 1:37 PM
That’s wonderful Elizabeth.
You don’t have to answer them but don’t make it seem like you are stomping off in a tiff because people disagree with you. I don’t know what happened the other day – i only browsed the threads. It seemed to me that people were leaving due to the issue of homosexuality. Many feel very strongly about this issue and feel it has been railroaded through society.
@Alexandra:”I thought that she was fed up with people thinking that just because they believe they are right, they have the right to say whatever they want.”
If you can back up your point and argue it then that is what this board is for. I agree that sometimes the moderation is poor – other times it is very good. Bystander was banned yesterday for a post made.
And BTW, the way people presented their vacating this blog, it does appear immature.
If the blog is causing them frustration they should leave – just don’t make a soap opera of it. Ok?
If you can back up your point and argue it then that is what this board is for.
So you think that this board is for calling people freaks and other names? As long as you do it in the name of whatever deity you believe in?
“Well, now you guys made me smile and not want to leave.”
I glad to see you’re staying Elizabeth, I know we’ve had some disagreements, but I think you’re intelligent, quality person and a nice mother.
You know, sometimes we have disagreements and spats (just like families and friends will do from time to time), and sometimes we have interesting discussions, laughs, etc… it’s all part of life…
This is true, Jasper.
And I’m not the kind of person who stomps off just because someone disagrees with me. It’s just very frustrating to expalin something 5 different ways and have people not read what you’re actually writing because they think they already know what you’re trying to say. I have no problem with different opinions and I welcome them, because God knows, I haven’t learned all I’m supposed to learn in this life. I’m always trying to learn from others. That’s really why I was so into this blog when I first found it. It was really interesting and had a lot of discussion, not like many of the blogs I have seen on this particular issue, and I really don’t want to see a good thing go bad.
HisMan, 12:12 p.m.
I thank you for your words and whether you believe me or not, I do pay attention to the things you say and find a lot of it very valuable. :)
If you can back up your point and argue it then that is what this board is for.
So you think that this board is for calling people freaks and other names? As long as you do it in the name of whatever deity you believe in?
Posted by: Alexandra at July 6, 2008 1:57 PM
I haven’t called you a freak Alexandra! I generally try to avoid calling people freaks (except maybe women with beards but that would have included some of my friends!)
BTW: my deity is Jesus Christ – Lord and Master of the Universe.
Patricia,
Hey! I pull three whiskers out of my chin every day.
Then again, I’m the first one to admit I’m a bit of a freak…
never mind.
Elizabeth: Grow up, HisMan, seriously.
Now that is “Word.”
HisMan, I MAY have been inclined to agree with any of your ranting about me if CARDER, A MODERATOR hadn’t agreed with me! But Carder called you out as well, so it’s really NOT in my imagination.
Elizabeth, you’re right and he’s wrong, and everybody knows it, and almost everybody will acknowkedge it. Stay the course.
Doug
Doug,
Even Hisman admitted that he was wrong. He apologized. The apology was accepted. Done now.
I haven’t called you a freak Alexandra!
Why would you think I was talking about you? I was explaining why Elizabeth left and how it wasn’t about homosexuality but about people thinking that they were perfectly justified in calling other people names because they believe they have God on their side. That was referring to HisMan, in case it wasn’t abundantly clear due to his allegations that anyone who disliked the insults was the PC police.
MK: yeah I’m not looking forward to my whisker days.
I keep telling myself “I’m not getting a beard. I’m not getting a beard.”
lol so far it’s working, it really is!
MK, you wrote: “Hippocrates coined an oath that ALL physicians took, swearing NEVER to take the life of the unborn…
Abortionists have stolen the Hippocratic oath among other things…”
The pledge not to do abortions is only one of several anacronisms that have been removed from the original Hippocratic Oath.
Others include a pledge to train the sons of other physicians for free, and a pledge never to do any surgery, but to leave it to others (which meant, at the time, barbers).
SoMG,
Just sayin’ that there is your proof that abortion has NOT always been accepted and condoned.
Performing abortions goes against the very defintion of what it means to be a healer.
Those other items, are business considerations. There is a huge difference.
Changing the code of ethics is not the same as changing the menu…
SoMG,
Not into sex and violence, tho the supernatural does appeal.
The marriage of Figaro sounds interesting…why can’t they sing in English for those of us in the peanut gallery?
Rest assured, I am familiar with Emmett Till. Thanks for being so condescending, though. What happened to Emmett has absolutely NOTHING to do with this story. Mrs. Till did not ride around a school with Emmett’s open casket so unsuspecting school children would see. People who chose to attend the funeral saw what happened to him.
Is this really how you try to justify this type of unjustifiable activity? You really think this is in some way okay? I find your comments and lack of compassion for children unbelievable.
Dear Chris Arsenault,
Rest assured, I am familiar with Emmett Till. Thanks for being so condescending, though. What happened to Emmett has absolutely NOTHING to do with this story. Mrs. Till did not ride around a school with Emmett’s open casket so unsuspecting school children would see. People who chose to attend the funeral saw what happened to him.
Is this really how you try to justify this type of unjustifiable activity? You really think this is in some way okay? I find your comments and lack of compassion for children unbelievable.
Dear MK,
I would not know if what you say is true about kids seeing worse on the Cartoon Network because we don’t have the Cartoon Network. In my house, we don’t pay for television. And I believe that’s one of my points. Who are you, or these men who drove this truck around, to decide what MY middle schooler should see? I try very hard to protect my children’s innocence. It is not up to you or anyone to take that away from them so you can make a political statement. And I’m sorry to tell you, but I’m not the only person who takes an active roll in raising my children. My kids, and dare I say most kids out there, don’t need this kind of “wake up call.”
However I would not want to be walking around with my daughter (16 mos) and have her point at the pictures and ask me in her little voice “What’s that?” I would not want any young child to be exposed to that sort of gore and violence because it would terrify them. Children aren’t going to understand abortion until they are far more mature. Why corrupt a young child’s mind that cannot fully comprehend what is going on. Why scare them with gory images that look like they are straight out of an R-rated film?
Posted by: militarywife at July 6, 2008 6:38 AM
A sixteen month old? Just say it is an abortion and be done with it. I don’t think a sixteen month old would really say much anything thing more. If your young children feel “scared” looking at these images it is most likely because they are picking up on your insecurity and your hesitation to be honest with them about it. I have children myself ages 16 months, 33 months, eight years, 11 yesrs, 13 years and 16 years. They don’t have a problem with it cause they understand how WORNG abortion is and know the people holding those signs are just trying to stop it. But I respect your opinion. ts
Sally,
How funny that you are still harping on how that little one escaped his mothers womb intact (even tho it’s been explained to you every which way to Sunday), yet did not address the pictures yet.
At least have the courage to say that I am right and that you are incapable of producing a single picture of a “here and now” abortion that would prove that these pictures are fake. And admit that “photographic art” is NOT about capturing the here and now, but about communicating through pictures, whether manipulated or not. And acknowledge that even National Geographic uses the same tactics when showing the human heart.
Big girls admit when they are wrong.
Posted by: mk at July 6, 2008 6:40 AM
…………………………………
Sorry mk but you are wrong in supporting such a stunt as these ‘activists’ pulled. National Geographic publishes pictures within context of a subject matter. When something has been magnified, they are honest and say so. You cannot prove where, when, how or why the pics on the van were taken. Monica Miller’s dumpster dive ‘finds’ that she stores in a garbage bag in her garage perhaps?
Most 11 year olds won’t have a clue what the pics are supposed to represent. Frightening kids is not something to be proud of and most certainly will not make you friends with their parents.
Isn’t it time to be a big girl mk?
Where’s your heart, Sally?
The baby Jill held was singled out for execution simply because of a genetically inherited disability. It was shelved to die alone in a soiled utility room, for goodness sake.
Seriously, Sally, Jill wasn’t looking to do “comfort care” when she she clocked in to work that day. That despised baby fell in her lap, so to speak, and life for her has never been the same since.
In all sincerity, if it had been you instead of Jill, how do you think you would have reacted?
Posted by: carder at July 5, 2008 9:57 PM
…………………………
I think with my brain carder. There is nothing simple about disability and neither you nor Jill are qualified to diagnose disability let alone make a prognosis. If in fact the aborted fetus of Jill’s story was capable of being comforted, simply touching such a preemie could cause physical damage and obviously much pain. Either the baby was incapable of sensation or Jill risked causing pain. If the baby couldn’t feel anything, comforting was a waste of time. If the baby could feel sensation, Jill would have been causing it pain. Even she admits that touching preemies can tear their skin.
Medical professionals need to think with their heads rather than act on their emotions carder.
millie at July 6, 2008 8:34 PM
You’re offended by the trucks – and by me? Interesting.
Actually if you had read – I agreed with you in part. There is a time and place that such displays are much more useful, there was no one available to discuss with the children why the trucks display what they do. Instead the article’s author ran to Planned Parenthood for commentary. Why? What does Planned Parenthood have to do with this? Oh, yes. They abort children.
So what’s worse here? Who are you sheltering? Children? From what? The horror of abortion?
Where is the outrage at elective abortion? Why is the imagery frightening?
Born children can avert their eyes. The aborted have no such choice – do they?
Is this really how you try to justify this type of unjustifiable activity? You really think this is in some way okay? I find your comments and lack of compassion for children unbelievable.
Jarring sensibilities is unjustifiable? Is what the abortionists doing then justifiable? Where is justice?
What about Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niem?ller? Should he have remained silent?
How come you can’t see the relationship between Emmett Till and what’s being done to the unborn? People were offended that such things were done to him – instead of being offended at Jet Magazine for having published the article.
I’m not going to disparage or discourage CBR from getting out there. Because if people are really outraged by what they see, they should work to stop abortion.
But until people understand how outrageously horrible abortion is – they won’t have the courage and outrageous passion to stop it.
truthseeker@9:33:
I still remember the first time I heard about abortion. I was only 5 years old and my teacher was talking about the politician (this was in 1988) who wanted to “kill babies”. I never saw a picture of it or anything, but I was really disturbed. Sometimes I wonder if children should even be told about abortion until you can explain the whole contextual issue of it.
When I was around 11 the topic of abortion came up again and I was finally able to understand exactly what was going on and why it was happening. I didn’t need to look at graphic pictures, but at that point I was able to digest what I had heard without being utterly confused and baffled.
I guess it’s your prerogative if you feel your children can mentally handle discussing abortion. Personally, I don’t know when I will have to tell my daughter about abortion, but I would rather not be prompted by a truck with a picture of a dead baby. And I would like her to be able to be old enough to understand and not just be terrified of gory images. I just think young children are innocent and we shouldn’t corrupt their innocence. At the same time, some day they will have to learn.
For you and you alone Elizabeth I will refrain from the insults as much as it goes against my dark nature in that area of dealing with injustice. God was speaking through you.
MK and Chris, thanks for your prayers.
millie at July 6, 2008 8:34 PM
You’re offended by the trucks – and by me? Interesting.
Actually if you had read – I agreed with you in part. There is a time and place that such displays are much more useful, there was no one available to discuss with the children why the trucks display what they do. Instead the article’s author ran to Planned Parenthood for commentary. Why? What does Planned Parenthood have to do with this? Oh, yes. They abort children.
So what’s worse here? Who are you sheltering? Children? From what? The horror of abortion?
Where is the outrage at elective abortion? Why is the imagery frightening?
Born children can avert their eyes. The aborted have no such choice – do they?
Is this really how you try to justify this type of unjustifiable activity? You really think this is in some way okay? I find your comments and lack of compassion for children unbelievable.
Jarring sensibilities is unjustifiable? Is what the abortionists doing then justifiable? Where is justice?
What about Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niem?ller? Should he have remained silent?
How come you can’t see the relationship between Emmett Till and what’s being done to the unborn? People were offended that such things were done to him – instead of being offended at Jet Magazine for having published the article.
I’m not going to disparage or discourage CBR from getting out there. Because if people are really outraged by what they see, they should work to stop abortion.
But until people understand how outrageously horrible abortion is – they won’t have the courage and outrageous passion to stop it.
Posted by: Chris Arsenault at July 6, 2008 10:47 PM
……………………………………………
Oh good grief! I’ve been a parent most probably longer than you have been alive. If you would be happy exposing your possible children to sensationalistic gore, I would have to question your ability to parent.
But you are correct that it would be an opportunity to discuss with my children the fact that there are adults out there wishing to harm children. Including men cruising around middle schools seeking attention from children.
Pretty sick dude.
millie at July 6, 2008 8:34 PM
You’re offended by the trucks – and by me? Interesting.
Actually if you had read – I agreed with you in part. There is a time and place that such displays are much more useful, there was no one available to discuss with the children why the trucks display what they do. Instead the article’s author ran to Planned Parenthood for commentary. Why? What does Planned Parenthood have to do with this? Oh, yes. They abort children.
So what’s worse here? Who are you sheltering? Children? From what? The horror of abortion?
Where is the outrage at elective abortion? Why is the imagery frightening?
Born children can avert their eyes. The aborted have no such choice – do they?
Is this really how you try to justify this type of unjustifiable activity? You really think this is in some way okay? I find your comments and lack of compassion for children unbelievable.
Jarring sensibilities is unjustifiable? Is what the abortionists doing then justifiable? Where is justice?
What about Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niem?ller? Should he have remained silent?
How come you can’t see the relationship between Emmett Till and what’s being done to the unborn? People were offended that such things were done to him – instead of being offended at Jet Magazine for having published the article.
I’m not going to disparage or discourage CBR from getting out there. Because if people are really outraged by what they see, they should work to stop abortion.
But until people understand how outrageously horrible abortion is – they won’t have the courage and outrageous passion to stop it.
Posted by: Chris Arsenault at July 6, 2008 10:47 PM
……………………………………………
Oh good grief! I’ve been a parent most probably longer than you have been alive. If you would be happy exposing your possible children to sensationalistic gore, I would have to question your ability to parent.
But you are correct that it would be an opportunity to discuss with my children the fact that there are adults out there wishing to harm children. Including men cruising around middle schools seeking attention from children.
Pretty sick dude. And I don’t mean cool.
Sally,
The baby that Jill comforted was not in pieces because it came out before it could be stabbed in the head. That’s why it was a “botched” abortion. That is what all the hulabaloo was about over the partial birth abortion. No way to control how fast the cervix would dilate, leaving the possibility open that the child would slip through before it could be properly killed.
As for capturing the here and now…where exactly is that definition of art? Again, YOU show ME a picture of an abortion captured in the here and now and prove to me that these pictures are fakes. You can’t. Because they’re not. So, please, enough already.
As to my feelings about Germans…I AM part German. Now, why do you hate Catholics?
Posted by: mk at July 5, 2008 9:31 PM
……………………..
It came out before it could be stabbed? It was aborted without your dramatics? How can that be?
Part German are you? Me too! Protestants going back to the need to protest Catholic perversions of the Christian faith. Catholic scholars that told the truth about the RCC. What were your German folks doing? Pretending they knew Latin and doing what they were told? Like raiding German communities and killing every man woman and child that didn’t bow down to your current warrior pope?
I’m an American. I don’t need or want your ignorance supplied by a religion you know nothing about.
Sally,
if only yllas were here. you wouldn’t get away with saying that. lol
Millie,
Who are you, or these men who drove this truck around, to decide what MY middle schooler should see?
Are you so angry that you didn’t read my post? You’re preaching to the choir. I said that I thought middle school was too young. It sounds like you just want to be angry. You’re angry with the people that disagree with you, and now you’re angry with me, when I agree with you…
Sally,
Sorry mk but you are wrong in supporting such a stunt as these ‘activists’ pulled. National Geographic publishes pictures within context of a subject matter. When something has been magnified, they are honest and say so. You cannot prove where, when, how or why the pics on the van were taken. Monica Miller’s dumpster dive ‘finds’ that she stores in a garbage bag in her garage perhaps?
Most 11 year olds won’t have a clue what the pics are supposed to represent. Frightening kids is not something to be proud of and most certainly will not make you friends with their parents.
Isn’t it time to be a big girl mk?
A. I’m not out to make friends with these parents.
B. I already said that, as I’ve mentioned to Millie, that I thought middle school was too young. You and Millie need to slow down and read, before you jump all over people.
C. Does McDonalds put a disclaimer on their bus advertisements explaining that their Big Macs are not actually 11 feet tall? Are kids so brain dead that they are disappointed when they order fries and they aren’t the size of redwood trees?
I don’t need to prove these pictures are real any more than I need to prove that heart was real.
You are the one claiming they are fake. So show me a picture of a real abortion and prove it.
Does the fact that these babies came out of dumpsters somehow change their chemical makeup? Do they grow arms and eyes because they’ve been in a hefty bag? What in heavens name do you mean by asking for proof as to where these pics came from?
What other circumstances would produce these bodies?
So I wasn’t wrong. I never claimed this stunt was “okay”, I proved that photographs are often manipulated to convey a message (which you ignored and changed to “ahhhh, but then it’s labeled as such, which is ridiculous as there was no such label on the National Geographic pic) and you are still insisting that those pictures are something other than aborted babies, refusing to show me what a real aborted baby looks like…
You’re right. Big girls do admit when they are wrong. And I have often, right here at Jills, apologized and admitted when I have made a mistake…wish I could say the same for you.
Sally,
It came out before it could be stabbed? It was aborted without your dramatics? How can that be?
Part German are you? Me too! Protestants going back to the need to protest Catholic perversions of the Christian faith. Catholic scholars that told the truth about the RCC. What were your German folks doing? Pretending they knew Latin and doing what they were told? Like raiding German communities and killing every man woman and child that didn’t bow down to your current warrior pope?
I’m an American. I don’t need or want your ignorance supplied by a religion you know nothing about.
Posted by: Sally at July 7, 2008 1:31 AM
Phooey.
Because I know no pro-lifer here will look at the pictures. “Oh they’re just animal, so what if they’re screaming in pain? So what if they’re ripped from their mothers when they’re only minutes old?”
Posted by: Jess at July 5, 2008 11:22 AM
Nonsense,
I viewed and showed those pics of animals to my kids to help them understand that killing animals is violent and that eating plant foods is not. I have participated in plenty of activities promoting everything from vegan diet to spay and neuter as well as eliminating animals in research.
There are many prolife vegans who are against the Iraq war etc.
I think you want to make the point that prolifers are hypocrites when in fact everyone who aspires to something better is a hypocrite.
If you understand a better way but fail to do it, you are a hypocrite.
People who aspire to nothing aren’t hypocrites but neither are they to be admired.
Abusing animals is wrong and killing children is wrong and polluting the environment is wrong etc, etc.
It is not either or.
Most pro aborts are indifferent to animal abuse and many support the war and couldn’t care less about the homeless or the environment.
Hippie,
HEY YOU!!!! Good to see you! Where’ve you been? I think PIP missed you. And Elizabeth doesn’t even know you, but she’ll love you. She needs a prolifer that thinks like you do!
I hope you’re here for a good long stay.
hippie: 8:16: I think you want to make the point that prolifers are hypocrites when in fact everyone who aspires to something better is a hypocrite.
If you understand a better way but fail to do it, you are a hypocrite.
People who aspire to nothing aren’t hypocrites but neither are they to be admired.
Thank you for these words of wisdom. Could you post this periodically, please? :)
It came out before it could be stabbed? It was aborted without your dramatics? How can that be?
If you haven’t figured it out by now, as many times as it has been explained to you, trying to explain it to you again would be an effort in futility.
Part German are you? Me too! Protestants going back to the need to protest Catholic perversions of the Christian faith. Catholic scholars that told the truth about the RCC. What were your German folks doing? Pretending they knew Latin and doing what they were told? Like raiding German communities and killing every man woman and child that didn’t bow down to your current warrior pope?
I’m an American. I don’t need or want your ignorance supplied by a religion you know nothing about.
Sally, please stop being so nasty just for the sake of being nasty.
I finally “get” this Sally/yllas thing. “Phooey” is right, mk. God bless us everyone.
Janet, it really does make a lot more sense when you get to know Sally, doesn’t it?
:)
Si, Senorita!
Hippie you said this: “Abusing animals is wrong and killing children is wrong and polluting the environment is wrong etc, etc.
It is not either or.
Most pro aborts are indifferent to animal abuse and many support the war and couldn’t care less about the homeless or the environment.”
I agree with the first sentence. However, I would clarify the priority and ask some questions.
Being pro-life is fundamental. On this we agree.
However, what if a just war is fought with the result being that it saves more life? Was it wrong to nuke Japan if it saved millions of lives?
Yes, homeless people deserve our compassion. What if a homeless person just wants to be that way? It’s hard for me to believe that someone can be homeless without a conscience choice at being such or perhaps they are mentally impaired. How does one know the difference? Many of the homeless people I work with are like that because they are not willing to break the habits that got them in that situation in the first place, like drug and alcohol abuse. Are we to incarcerate them so they won’t be homeless anymore or are we to let them be free to make their own choices? In many cases when the pain of being homeless exceeds the pain of the addicition they will them make the choice to change.
As far as the environment goes, we need to learn how to use the resources given to us while at the same time regarding the damage that is done to get at those resources and minimizing it. For example, what if not drillling for oil in the Rocky Mountain results in the economic devastation of this country resulting in more homeless people and more abortions? Was it then right to put the Rocky Mountains ahead of people?
Similalry, to just rape the land without any thought of “use without abuse” is wrong also.
Life is hard, no?
Yes, homeless people deserve our compassion. What if a homeless person just wants to be that way? It’s hard for me to believe that someone can be homeless without a conscience choice at being such or perhaps they are mentally impaired. How does one know the difference? Many of the homeless people I work with are like that because they are not willing to break the habits that got them in that situation in the first place, like drug and alcohol abuse. Are we to incarcerate them so they won’t be homeless anymore or are we to let them be free to make their own choices? In many cases when the pain of being homeless exceeds the pain of the addicition they will them make the choice to change.
Hisman, have you ever watched the documentary about a homeless man who was given 100,000 dollars?
He was given a financial counselor, and many other resources for advice on how to help him keep the money so that he would never be homeless again. (He became convinced that the financial counselor was trying to rob him.)
Yet, within 6 months, he had blown every last penny of it, and was broke again.
He wasn’t willing to save any of his money or even get a job.
It was amazing to see how foolishly this man wasted his money, despite the constant advice of friends and family.
I think a lot of homeless people are like that. I don’t have much sympathy for those who refuse to do anything about their situation. However, those who are mentally impaired, that is a different story.
Hippie, I did miss you ;)
Bethany,
Not even sure what to say.
HisMan, you wrote: “please tell us if you’re are a man or woman. ”
Yes.
PIP, you can find the documentary online, I think- not sure if you can actually view it online or if you’d have to order it, but I think the name of the documentary was “What would a homeless man do with 100,000 dollars” or something like that. It’s been a while since I saw it. But it was definitely eye opening as to why many homeless people are homeless.
I think a lot of homeless people are like that. I don’t have much sympathy for those who refuse to do anything about their situation. However, those who are mentally impaired, that is a different story.
Bethany, what is your opinion on the likelihood of a person so unable to care for their own financial well-being NOT having some mental problem? Even if it is “just” depression, that can be a serious mental problem that can really affect their ability to care for themselves — and it’s something that, with help, they can control. Compulsive or uncontrollable behavior can often be a sign of underlying problems, not just “laziness” or whatever. Ask any bulimic. Of course some people may just not care and may not want to get control over their lives, but I think it’s a pretty big stretch to paint any specific portion of homeless people with that brush.
I generally think there are three categories of homeless people, at least here in NYC: addicts, mentally ill people, and people who are just down on their luck. These three groups overlap sometimes, but just because some homeless people are mentally ill doesn’t mean that the woman who got evicted from her apartment after losing her job is going to squander any aid that is thrown her way.
Of course, I don’t know every homeless person well enough to decide which ones can make the best use of said aid. Which is why I support — financially and politically — measures that help the homeless. The only way you can know why any given homeless person is homeless is by working with them — and only by knowing why a certain person is homeless can you know how to help them.
HisMan, 10:49 a.m.
AMEN!
Bethany,
I SAW that documentary. I also saw the Oprah that had the people who made this documentary on, and they said that this guy’s problem was the fact that he didn’t want to fit into the rules of society like getting a job, showing up on time for a job, paying bills, etc, etc. He in fact liked being homeless more because nobody was telling him what to do and when to do it. Some people are homeless by choice because they don’t want to conform to society’s rules. It is sad, but there is little to be done about these sorts of homeless people.
Alexandria, I don’t think it was depression. I think it was extreme laziness and stubbornness. I think that unfortunately, many, many homeless people got that way because of their unwillingness to work.
Elizabeth, I completely agree with your post. That man did express on the documentary that he enjoyed being in a world of no rules, like you said. He would rather live without a home than to actually have to do anything. not much we can do for people like that! ;-)
Alexandra, I completely agree!
“Sally, if only yllas were here. you wouldn’t get away with saying that.”
Though abrasive, Sally said some true things that got yllas in a dither. Then yllas comes out with some foaming-at-the-mouth report straight from Fantasy Island. Half the people on this website have commented on it.
Sally knows to ignore such, and Sally knows the truth about yllas.
Chris Arsenault and MK,
You both are the LAST people I want to agree with me in part or in whole. Both of you disgust me with your attempts to justify the actions of these men and people like them. Of course, you ARE people like them. You are people so wrapped up in your crusade that you’ve lost all rational thought.
BTW, I don’t see any connection at all with the Emmett Till case because there is not connection. No rational person can see a connection. You both sadden me greatly.
Millie
What you are doing is mistaking our discussion of the issue as approval for what was done. Both MK and I are not approving the way it was done.
Yet, we both understand why it was done, and this is something you apparently aren’t willing to look into.
The reason why I bring up Emmett Till is because Gregg Cunningham – who is quoted in the article above, had this to say about Emmett Till:
http://abortionno.org/blog/?p=8
I don’t always agree with Greg’s tactics, but I do agree with the need to provide the truth to people about this issue. The most appropriate way to do that is to provide a venue to move the conversation about the images to constructive dialog.
Apparently, constructive dialog between us hasn’t happened yet – and given that you’re professing you’re pro-life, that saddens us.
Millie,
Chris and MK are 2 of the MOST RATIONAL posters on this blog. I’ve never met Chris but I have met MK, and can assure you she is a VERY rational, wonderful woman, and Chris is one of the most intelligent, analytical posters on this board.
Take a deep breath and try to read what they’re actually writing as opposed to what you think they’re trying to say.
Sally knows to ignore such, and Sally knows the truth about yllas.
Posted by: George at July 7, 2008 7:30 PM
Can assume George knows Sally?
Millie,
Chris Arsenault and MK,
You both are the LAST people I want to agree with me in part or in whole. Both of you disgust me with your attempts to justify the actions of these men and people like them. Of course, you ARE people like them. You are people so wrapped up in your crusade that you’ve lost all rational thought.
*
BTW, I don’t see any connection at all with the Emmett Till case because there is not connection. No rational person can see a connection. You both sadden me greatly.
Wow. Well, I’m sorry to hear that. Would you like me better if I disagreed with you, since you can’t stand the sight of me when I agree with you.
You’re obviously too worked up right now to even read what Chris and I have been writing…that’s okay. Maybe when you cool off, you’ll realize that we’re not the enemy.
Though abrasive, Sally said some true things that got yllas in a dither. Then yllas comes out with some foaming-at-the-mouth report straight from Fantasy Island. Half the people on this website have commented on it.
Sally knows to ignore such, and Sally knows the truth about yllas.
Posted by: George at July 7, 2008 7:30 PM
Can assume George knows Sally?
Posted by: truthseeker at July 7, 2008 10:34 PM
Looks like they both know yllas. yllas is an Anti-Protestant Nazi.
Looks like they both know yllas. yllas is an Anti-Protestant Nazi.
Posted by: Zeke 13:19 at July 7, 2008 11:48 PM
Zeke, I wouldn’t know that cause I never saw yllas post being an Anti-Protestant Nazi. I always thought of yllas as being the anti-Sally.
Elizabeth (Gabriella’s Momma) @ 10:32 PM – Thank you for your kind words.