BBC Philharmonic conductor and wife commit double-assisted suicide
Assisted suicide is currently banned in the UK (a point of contention for many), but not so in Switzerland, where a famous conductor and his wife chose to end their lives this week. From the AP comes the sad report:
British maestro Edward Downes, who conducted the BBC Philharmonic and the Royal Opera but struggled in recent years as his hearing and sight failed, has died with his wife [Joan] at an assisted suicide clinic in Switzerland. He was 85 and she was 74.
The couple’s children said Tuesday that the couple died “peacefully and under circumstances of their own choosing” on Friday at a Zurich clinic run by the group Dignitas….
“After 54 happy years together, they decided to end their own lives rather than continue to struggle with serious health problems,” said a statement from the couple’s son and daughter, Caractacus and Boudicca.
The statement said Downes, who became Sir Edward when he was knighted by Queen Elizabeth II in 1991, had become almost blind and increasingly deaf. His wife, a former dancer, choreographer and television producer, had devoted years to working as his assistant. British newspapers reported that she had been diagnosed with cancer….
Downes’ manager, Jonathan Groves, said he was shocked by the couple’s deaths, but called their decision “typically brave and courageous.”…
The couple is survived by their children, who said their parents “both lived life to the full and considered themselves to be extremely lucky to have lived such rewarding lives, both professionally and personally.”
The family said there would be no funeral.
There is currently a poll regarding assisted suicide in the UK, here.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Lord have mercy on their souls. This isn’t right. There is no courage in the act of assisted-suicide. It signifies a complete loss of hope.
It signifies a complete loss of hope.
Posted by: Janet at July 17, 2009 2:12 PM
Sometimes there is no hope.
Brave and courageous are the ones who fight to live despite the pain, suffering and surgery. They fight to live to be there for their children and their families.
I have seen brave and courageous with my own eyes.
Hal,
Where there is life, there is hope. -Terri Schindler Schiavo
With GOD there is always HOPE.
This is just horrible. :(
Suicide is NOT natural.
~ Every time you stand up for an ideal, you send forth a tiny ripple of hope. ~
Robert Kennedy
Hi Hal,
Hope is a choice we make when we despair. We all go through bad times. God (or Mother Nature as you might say) gives us the Seasons to fuel our hope. Winter always turns to Spring. God bless.
What serious health problems? All they said was his hearing and sight failed.
My daughter needs a new pair of glasses. I guess I should just shoot her and put her out of her misery.
Carla, Liz,
Exactly.
One of my good friends had a double mastectomy today and all of her lymph nodes were removed as well due to the cancer she is fighting. She has been having chemo and radiation for a year now. She is the mother of 5 beautiful children, 4 are adopted. Please pray for Missy.
I am in awe as I watch her fight the good fight and hang onto the hope she has in God.
We shall all die one day. Life has a 100% mortality rate. Do we do ourselves in when we don’t feel like living anymore?
I’m sorry for your friend. My prayers are with her and her family.
How sweet.
there is hope Hal. Hope in the afterlife and the result of a life well lived.
The hope is in spending eternity with Christ. Death is merely another step in life to the life we were originally meant to have – with God.
Nicely said, angel. :)
thanks Janet :), but too many “life”s in my statement!
I wonder what music they selected to die by.
Smell the smell
by
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Whiskey bottles, and brand new cars
Oak tree youre in my way
Theres too much coke and too much smoke
Look whats going on inside you
Ooooh that smell
Cant you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of death surrounds you
Angel of darkness is upon you
Stuck a needle in your arm
So take another toke, have a blow for your nose
One more drink fool, will drown you
Ooooh that smell
Cant you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of death surrounds you
Now they call you prince charming
Cant speak a word when youre full of ludes
Say youll be all right come tomorrow
But tomorrow might not be here for you
Ooooh that smell
Cant you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of death surrounds you
Hey, youre a fool you
Stick them needles in your arm
I know I been there before
One little problem that confronts you
Got a monkey on your back
Just one more fix, lord might do the trick
One hell of a price for you to get your kicks
Ooooh that smell
Cant you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of death surrounds you
Ooooh that smell
Cant you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of death surrounds you
or
And When I Die
by
Blood Sweat And Tears
I’m not scared of dying,
And I don’t really care.
If it’s peace you find in dying,
Well then let the time be near.
If it’s peace you find in dying,
And if dying time is near,
Just bundle up my coffin
‘Cause it’s cold way down there.
I hear that its cold way down there.
Yeah, crazy cold way down there.
Chorus:
And when I die, and when I’m gone,
There’ll be one child born
In this world to carry on,
to carry on.
Now troubles are many, they’re as deep as a well.
I can swear there ain’t no heaven but I pray there ain’t no hell.
Swear there ain’t no heaven and I pray there ain’t no hell,
But I’ll never know by living, only my dying will tell.
Yes only my dying will tell.
Yeah, only my dying will tell.
(Chorus)
Give me my freedom for as long as I be.
All I ask of living is to have no chains on me.
All I ask of living is to have no chains on me,
And all I ask of dying is to go naturally.
Oh I want to go naturally.
Here I go, hah!
Hey Hey!
Here comes the devil,
Right Behind.
Look out children,
Here he comes!
Here he comes! Hey…
Don’t want to go by the devil.
Don’t want to go by demon.
Don’t want to go by Satan,
Don’t want to die uneasy.
Just let me go naturally.
and when I die,
When I’m dead, dead and gone,
There’ll be one child born in our world to carry on,
To carry on.
Yeah, yeah…
yor bro ken
I never liked the term “afterlife”. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord & Savior, we are given the gift of ETERNAL life. My life will never end. My body will be changed, but my life will be eternal.
:)
“and when I die,
When I’m dead, dead and gone,
There’ll be one child born in our world to carry on,
To carry on.
Yeah, yeah…”
unless that child is aborted.
*notice: the choice of words. It’s a “child” born, not “fetus”.
By the way – “When I die” came out in 1969, four years before abortion was legalized.
Hal, there is ALWAYS hope!
They might’ve been in pain…increasingly unhappy due to diminished capacity…i know if anything ever happened to me to take away my ability to sing or hear music i’d be thoroughly devastated, and my children and husband would probably be the only positive influences keeping me alive. These people sound as if their children were grown and no longer in need of care or constant contact. If one has lived a good (and it seems like these people had a long time to live it as well) life, one should not fear death. If you feel as though you’ve had a good run, what’s wrong with feeling as though your time to rest has come? Just because that isn’t the way you all would do it in their shoes doesn’t mean these people should be faulted for their choices. I’m with reality on this one. I think it’s sweet that they chose to go together.
x,
“It ain’t over ’til it’s over.”
~ Yogi Berra
Seriously. It’s just wrong. We have a sacred right to life. Our founding fathers certainly believed that. We can’t just throw that away. What are we telling future generation? That life has no value beyond what’s in our own minds. That’s the kind of thinking that justifies abortion. I don’t think you can be pro-life and believe assisted suicide isn’t wrong, do you?
Apparently not great enough. Their despair must have been around for a while to have prompted their final actions.
The doctor’s fee was almost TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS according to the AP report. That’s a quick and lucrative day’s work for a “doctor”. Even more than an abortionist makes. I’ll bet that when Roe v. Wade is overturned, and it will be, many of the abortionists will become suicide-providers if we aren’t careful about the laws we enact on assisted-suicide.
Janet
The abortion doctors will hopefully go on providing women with safe, legal abortions in states that will allow it….that’s what happened in the past; abortion doesn’t stop just because it’s illegal it; it just kills women.
Kat,
That’s hyperbole. Fine, let the States regulate abortion. That’s how it should be because it’s not specified in the Constitution.
I don’t feel that anything is actually “sacred”. It makes me feel bad to say that, but honestly, I think it’s time for me to come on and admit that, because I have come to the conclusions I have in my life not through dogma or superstition, but through analyzing my world with logic and reason, which removed any idea of the sacred long ago. Not giving an issue adequate thought because it is considered “sacred” in my mind is doing a disservice to ourselves and our society.
A right is just that, a right, and it is up to us as citizens to use or abstain from that right as we see fit. These people no longer felt the need to exercise their right to life, no despair needed, and I don’t see why there has to be a degree of despair involved. If it came time for me to die tomorrow, I would be sad that I couldn’t watch my children grow up, become a grandparent, be there for my husband, or spend any more time with my family and friends. However, I wouldn’t be sad about my own life, because I feel that I’ve lived to be a good person, and got to experience many things in my lifetime. This isn’t an issue of valuing life or not valuing life. Maybe they were just tired and ready to go? It doesn’t mean they weren’t happy and grateful for the time they had, and that’s valuing not only life itself, but the act of living, which to me is just as important. It’s why I’m pro-life. I want to see these people who are killed in abortion have the opportunity to live wonderful, full, and happy lives like the ones these two must’ve lead, and see these children grow up to be able to make their OWN choices about when their lives will end. Some will want to cling to every last breath as it comes, and good on them, but some will feel as though their living is done before that breath, and I think they should be able to lay down for their rest whenever they like.
Brave and courageous are the ones who fight to live despite the pain, suffering and surgery. They fight to live to be there for their children and their families.
Posted by: carla at July 17, 2009 2:59 PM
Well said! I agree with you, but it seems our elected officials in Washington don’t. People need to educate themselves about the health care bill. End-of-life-care counseling is mandated for people of certain age or with chronic illness. Federal and state bureaucrats will be inserting themselves between patients and physicians in the decision-making process about life-sustaining treatment options. This bill makes the obstacles and issues we sometimes encounter with private insurance look like child’s play. Read the bill, people, read the bill.
“End-of-life-care counseling is mandated for people of certain age or with chronic illness. Federal and state bureaucrats will be inserting themselves between patients and physicians in the decision-making process about life-sustaining treatment options.”
It’s this bit with which I have qualms. It is for reasons like this that I cannot support or endorse legalized assisted suicide. Until we could be completely certain the state would leave any and all decisions about such things completely up to those people actively seeking their end that are of sound mind (rather than aggressively suggesting it/mandating it), it can never be.
xalisae,
Maybe there’s a better way to say “life is sacred” that “non-believers can relate better to. I had a feeling that was the wrong word for you as soon as I typed it. Maybe “life is dignified”? It’s too early in the AM for a long response, but, I just came across an article at cnn dot org entitled “Mandela struggles against aging as he turns 91” that I want to tell you about. It’s worth a read.
Mandela has established today, July 18, 2009 as the first “Mandela Day” to encourage people to service for others. It is also his birthday today – 91 years old. Even in his old age, he deeply appreciates the dignity and his ongoing relationship to others in this world. According to his wife (paraphrased), he has given 67 years of service to his people and he would like to see people give 67 minutes back on this date.
John Paul II was a man who struggled with the dignity of getting old, suffering greatly from illness, but he continued on when he could have retired. He was an inspiration to others who are going through the same difficulties. What a great loss to the world if he had decided to give up before his days were done.
xalisae,
I think it was on another thread, you mentioned that a person shouldn’t be “forced” to live if they don’t want to. I see a parallel with the idea put forth by pro-choicers that a woman shouldn’t be “forced” to continue a pregnancy. One would argue that since pregnancy is a natural progression of events resulting in birth, it is force that is required to end it, not sustain it. This carries through to the end of life. No one is forced to LIVE. It happens naturally. Suicide is the selective aborting of a life.
“World’s oldest man, WWI vet dies at age 113”
“The world’s oldest man, 113-year-old World War I veteran Henry Allingham, died Saturday after spending his final years reminding Britain about the 9 million soldiers killed during the conflict.”
Now that was one courageous man who saw purpose to his life until the very end. You can go to “USA dot com” for his story or “google” the title of the article (above).
May he rest in peace, and God bless.
Ken —
I wonder what music they selected to die by.
Have you ever seen Children of Men? Mild spoilers follow, if anyone hasn’t.
There is a government-distributed euthanasia pill (IIRC) that is advertised/promoted in warm fuzzy statements like, “Quietus: You Decide When.” Anyway one character, cornered and facing death for himself and his nearly-comatose wife, puts on Franco Battiato’s cover of Ruby Tuesday before giving her (and his dog) the medication. It was such a haunting scene. Kind of a grim movie, with a lot of striking imagery, but that song has always stayed with me above all else. It was the first thing I thought of when I read the title of this post. Interesting that our minds went the same way, if to different places and with different intentions.
Kat, I would suggest that you might consider checking out the RealChoice blog at http://www.realchoice.blogspot.com . Guess what… “safe n’ legal” abortion KILLS WOMEN. You’d be surprised how many. See also the “Cemetery of Choice” for complete listings of women known to have been killed by abortion. Note in particular the POST-“Roe” abortion deaths.
As a professional classical musician myself, I can attest that the late Sir Edward Downes was a distinguished conductor who lived a long and producitive life, and I can’t presume to judge his motives for committing suicide with his wife.
However, losing one’s hearing is a terrible thing for a professional musician.
But Xalisae, when you say that you”want to see those killed by abortion have the opportunity to live wonderful , full and happy lives like these two who must have led,” you fail to realize that this just won’t happen in most cases if poor women give birth to unwanted children. Downes was not born poor.
Although SOME people born into poverty have escaped it and achieved success and prosperity, many never do and never will.
That’s why abortions happen. Unless the government here does an awful lot more to support poor pregnant women and see to it that they can provide for their children, born or not yet born, abortons will be common.
And saying that conservatives contribute more to charities than liberals is a cop out; it’s absolutely impossible for charities to provide enough for the poor so that poor pregnant women won’t have abortions. Only the government can do this.
But it doesn’t provide anywhere near enough. In Europe, where the governments REALLY provide for people, abortion rates are the lowest in the world. This isn’t socialism; it’s good government.
No Robert. More government is not the answer, not the solution to everything. Open your eyes, man and truly look and see what Pregnancy Resource Centers and Maternity Homes are doing FOR FREE for homeless, poor women who find out the truth about the child that grows inside of them! One 4D ultrasound and they fall in love with their baby and we HELP them with their physical, emotional and financial needs through pregnancy and beyond.
I notice you never mention MEN who might MAN UP and become the fathers to the children they have made. Are they not part of the equation? Do they not have a say in the baby they want but the woman doesn’t?
Yes siree Bob, the answers are already out here. You are choosing not to look.
I didn’t know you were a professional classical musician!! I am very intrigued and if you would ever stay long enough to chat I would love to know more!! What do you play? How long have you played? How do I get my son to pick an instrument?
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson
However, losing one’s hearing is a terrible thing for a professional musician.
Surely, Robert, I don’t need to mention Beethoven to you! That last public performance, a failed attempt at the piano concerto, must have been absolutely mortifying for him.
Yet had he simply given up, stopped composing, killed himself — not only would we be missing such amazing music, we’d have no access to the even the few surviving conversation books in which he ‘spoke’ with friends and peers, those fascinating records of discussions and insights. He didn’t just contribute to the world’s experience in spite of his deafness; in some ways he contributed BECAUSE of his deafness. What a loss to the world — not just the world around him, the people he knew, but all of us, forever after, down to me and you and past us to generations that follow. Where would the art world be, if everyone who was suffering had killed himself? We’d be surrounded by Thomas Kinkade pictures and elevator music. Freaking gross.
A teacher of mine had spent his life in the best music schools before eventually joining a reputable philharmonic, and he spoke of a classmate of years gone by who drove himself halfway crazy because he could hear “too well.” His ear was so sensitive that he became obsessed with the intonation of his playing; he convinced himself that notes were out of tune when, to anyone listening, they sounded perfectly in tune. Eventually he was so humiliated by his own playing that he gave it up entirely.
Imagine that — someone with extremely sensitive ears finding he has no worthy musical contributions to give; and someone partially, and eventually completely, deaf finding ways to contribute the things he has to offer. We all have our individual pains, and heartaches, and humiliations. What matters is how we work with, around, or through them.
PS — If I recall correctly, you play the french horn? I’ve always for some reason viewed it as the cello of the brass section. Hauntingly beautiful, when given the chance to be heard. Being a cellist (though no professional by any stretch) I’ve always felt an odd kinship with french horns and bassoons. ;)
“Unless the government here does an awful lot more to support poor pregnant women and see to it that they can provide for their children, born or not yet born, abortons will be common.”
Robert,
If the government provided everything for pregnant women, would you still be for legalized abortion?
Liberals are notoriously cheap people. Joe Biden gave something like .01 percent of his income to charity. Al Gore is cheap, as was John Kerry. Most people on wall-street are liberals as well.
Robert,
It’s obvious from your post that you’ve been paying attention to the pro-life commenters here. That’s good. Still….”government” is bureaucracy. It smothers us in red tape and issues unreasonable mandates. WE are the ones who get things done. People working with other people, unencumbered by restrictions. NOT “government” which is basically a bunch of people who tell everyone else what they think they should be doing. You know what needs to be done. We all know. Let’s just do it instead of laying the responsibility on Washington. Just look at DC, one of the poorest places in the U,S, If “the government” can’t take care of the people in its back yard, how can we expect them to be responsible for the rest of the country?
Alexandra @ 11:25,
Great post.
But Xalisae, when you say that you”want to see those killed by abortion have the opportunity to live wonderful , full and happy lives like these two who must have led,” you fail to realize that this just won’t happen in most cases if poor women give birth to unwanted children. Downes was not born poor.
Sir, you can be poor in more ways than just financially, and most often I find that the farther one is away from being poor financially, the more bankrupt they become in every other way you can imagine. (there are exceptions to this rule, apparently)
I come from a poor family, and currently not doing too well financially since my husband has just left the military and we’re both in-between jobs. But, I’ve never felt poor in my life, and I feel as though the life I’ve lead has been quite rich and full. Hearing music doesn’t cost a thing. The library has books for free. When I walk outside to view the sunset over the forests and mountains, I’m not charged a dime. Pondering the complexity and nature of life does not carry with it a research fee when I’m using nothing more than my own mind. Endorsing the legalized killing of those who quite possibly live better lives than you do simply because they are worse off than you financially I think is a testament to one’s own “lack of funds” in the moral department, so-to-speak.
And yes, Robert, back when I was on full vocal scholarship in my university’s concert chorale, I was a soprano I. I lost my voice in high school for a week or so and began having thoughts of taking my own life when I thought that it wouldn’t return (I was a much unhappier person all-around back then though, and hadn’t yet come to many of the realizations I have at this point in my life). I can see how something like a conductor losing their sense of hearing would make life not worth living for them.
And trust me, Mr. Berger, after having been affiliated with the United States government through the DoD for 5 years because of my husband’s occupation, and before that spending a year working for a non-profit organization which ran schools for children with severe disabilities, I can safely say that if you ever want ANYTHING done at all, DO NOT ask the government. Expansion of non-profit private companies is what is sorely needed here. Ones that actually help people, rather than many liberal-flavored sorts that do wonderful things to help humanity like ensure the tufted titmouse has adequate breeding ground.
Posted by: Hal at July 17, 2009 2:58 PM
“Sometimes there is no hope.”
—————————————————–
Hal,
There have been times in my life where I have dispaired of hope. It ‘seemed’ like there was no end to my misery.
That transient ‘feeling’ of hopelessness did not end when GOD entered my life.
I have never been suicidal, but I have wanted to die.
This is a passage of scripture which continues to encourage me that though my feelings are real, they are not true:
“For we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about the affliction and oppressing distress which befell us in [the province of] Asia, how we were so utterly and unbearably weighed down and crushed that we despaired even of life [itself].
Indeed, we felt within ourselves that we had received the [very] sentence of death, but that was to keep us from trusting in and depending on ourselves instead of on God Who raises the dead.
[For it is He] Who rescued and saved us from such a perilous death, and He will still rescue and save us; in and on Him we have set our hope (our joyful and confident expectation) that He will again deliver us [from danger and destruction and draw us to Himself],”
The man who wrote this had experienced some unpleasant things:
“Five times I received from [the hands of] the Jews forty [lashes all] but one; [Deut 25:3.]
Three times I have been beaten with rods; once I was stoned. Three times I have been aboard a ship wrecked at sea; a [whole] night and a day I have spent [adrift] on the deep;
Many times on journeys, [exposed to] perils from rivers, perils from bandits, perils from [my own] nation, perils from the Gentiles, perils in the city, perils in the desert places, perils in the sea, perils from those posing as believers [but destitute of Christian knowledge and piety];
In toil and hardship, watching often [through sleepless nights], in hunger and thirst, frequently driven to fasting by want, in cold and exposure and lack of clothing.”
Here is the reason he gives for enduring all:
“But whatever former things I had that might have been gains to me, I have come to consider as [one combined] loss for Christ’s sake.
Yes, furthermore, I count everything as loss compared to the possession of the priceless privilege (the overwhelming preciousness, the surpassing worth, and supreme advantage) of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord and of progressively becoming more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him [of perceiving and recognizing and understanding Him more fully and clearly]. For His sake I have lost everything and consider it all to be mere rubbish (refuse, dregs), in order that I may win (gain) Christ (the Anointed One),
And that I may [actually] be found and known as in Him, not having any [self-achieved] righteousness that can be called my own, based on my obedience to the Law’s demands (ritualistic uprightness and supposed right standing with God thus acquired), but possessing that [genuine righteousness] which comes through faith in Christ (the Anointed One), the [truly] right standing with God, which comes from God by [saving] faith.
yor bro ken
Beethoven was a young man when he gradually started to lose his hearing. Only about 30. But he went through terrible depression and mental torment. He DID consider suicide. But fortunately, he didn’t do this.
I used to be a professional free lance French hornist, and performed with many,many different orchestras, concert bands, opera companies and chamber ensembles, and have performed with some well-known conductors and performed in Italy, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji and Samoa, and various places in the US.
I was also a substitute music teacher at various public schools on Long Island ,where I used to live, and was the classical music critic for the Queens college,CUNY student newspaper when I was doing graduate work in musicology there.
I am currently involved in doing work with music appreciation for elderly and infirm people at nursing homes and for people with disabilities such as cerebral palsy,and am hoping to expand my programs wherever possible,and to do more to increase audiences, of whatever age, for classical music in America.
I have a blog on classical music on the website blogiversity.org, which has blogs and forums on a wide variety of topics. My blog is geard toward people who may be new to classical music and would like to learn more about it. I cover all kinds of classical music;orchestral,opera, etc, current events in classical music, information about famous composers, famous works, music history, musical instruments, explain music theory, aesthetics, anything relating to classical music. I even have classical music jokes ! My blog is simply
called The Horn.
My URL is http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/the_horn
You can also click on Recent Blog Posts on the right side of the home page, and look for any blogs on classical music called The Horn. Try it please.
I don’t know how old your son is. It’s best to start on an instrument when you are a child, because you learn better and quicker that way. Have him try several, whether piano, string or woodwind or brass instruments and see if he seems to show any aptitude. I started out on the French horn when I was only 9,when my band teacher was trying kids out on different instruments, and he thought I showed great natural aptitude for the instrument, which is veryu,very difficult to play.
My latest post is on Mozart’s horn concertos, which you ought to try if you don’t know them.
Very good, Mr. Berger, I’ll be certain to look into it, as my taste in music is rather varied and I do enjoy classical music on occasion.
Have you thought at all about what I said, though?
Hey, Robert Berger, small world! Several of my friends worked in the theater department at Queens College for some years; I live in Astoria.
I love Mozart’s horn concertos! I’ll be sure to check your blog out.
I have a question, though — why do you think it was fortunate that Beethoven didn’t kill himself? Is it just because he began to go deaf so young? So he still had a lot to do before he died, deaf or not? Would you have objected to the assisted suicide of a deaf conductor if that conductor was only 30, rather than 85?
If that’s the case, at what age would you be okay with Beethoven having killed himself? At the time, the late quartets were not fully appreciated or understood; would it have been reasonable and understandable for him to kill himself before them, since his best was allegedly behind him? Without his late-life illnesses he would never have written the Fifteenth quartet. Deaf, bed-ridden, and almost deathly ill — surely those are circumstances that justify suicide, if any do. And yet he was not finished with the world. What a beautiful thing.
I see this situation and I wonder, what intellectual, emotional, or artistic equivalent of the Fifteenth Quartet may have been inside Edward Downes? We will never know. What a sad, terrible loss for the world.
Very interesting, Robert!! Thank you for the glimpse into your world!! My son is 12. Wants to try drums and guitar. :)
I am confused though. You play the horn with your God-given talent for those that are targeted for abortion(cerebral palsy and other disabilities)and assisted suicide?(the elderly and infirm in nursing homes)
I believe you are more in favor of aborting the children of poor and homeless mothers? Correct me if I’m wrong.
I love you my sweet Alexandra!! Wonderful comment!!
Pro-choice people like me don’t WANT abortions to happen, but simply realize that making abortion illegal only makes a bad situation much worse . Not only does this not stop abortion, it actually causes MORE abortions to happen than when it’s legal.
The only way to stop abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies and to make sure that women will be able to take good care of their children, born or not yet born.
That’s why I don’t support republican politicians, because they not only want to make abortion illegal, but advocate cutting or eliminating gopvernment programs to help the poor, which would PREVENT many abortions from happening. I fail to see their logic. What they want is terribly counterproductive .
I have some misgivings about suicide, and allowing assisted suicide, but people will still commit suicide anyway whether this kind of suicide is legal or not. Downes and his wife could have easily committed suicide themselves. About ten years ago, a well-known Austrian conductor named Georg Tintner ,who was in his 70s and suffering from cancer, jumped out a window and killed himself.
Beethoven’s parents had seven children in all, of whom only three boys survived.
Beethoven was the second of the seven, and his older brother, also called Ludwig, died in infancy, which was very common at the time. Who knows if the first one might have been a great musician,too?
I want abortion to remain legal also, in order to save a woman’s life or to prevent her from being seriously harmed by a pregnancy gone wrong, which certainly can happen.
If Downes mother had been desperately poor, she might have aborted him,too.
Also, I can’t perform any more because of a neurological disorder which gradually deprived me of the ability to walk, and this disorder developed very gradually. I was diagnosed with this many years ago when I could still walk.
This has caused severe spasticity in my legs, and I now use a wheelchair, but I can walk with a walker, which I use for exercize. But I didn’t let this get me down. I could still do some kind of work, and I’m now trying to expand my programs in increasing the popularity of classical music.
But wondering what great accomplishments yet unborn people might achieve if abortion were illegal is futile. What if my mother had miscarried when pregnant with me? Or if I had died as a child? Or other talented people? What happens ,happens.
Robert, I’m so sorry to hear that you can no longer perform. That must have been difficult to come to terms with. I think that your work in increasing the popularity of classical music is an amazing way to use your multiple gifts and your extensive knowledge on the subject! You’d be great to have a drink or a cup of coffee with, that’s for sure — you have such interesting things to say.
But wondering what great accomplishments yet unborn people might achieve if abortion were illegal is futile. What if my mother had miscarried when pregnant with me? Or if I had died as a child? Or other talented people? What happens ,happens.
I agree that it’s futile to worry about what might have been. “What if your mom had aborted you” or “what if someone had never been conceived” are useless arguments. But I see a difference between “what might have been” and “what could be.” We cannot change the past, but we can change the future. What happens happens, but in the circumstances in which we can control what happens, should we not do what we can? People will die, women will miscarry, the world will miss out on unquantifiable gifts through no fault of its own. But is that something to support, simply because it will happen anyway? Or is that something we should work against when we have the power to do so?
I have some misgivings about suicide, and allowing assisted suicide, but people will still commit suicide anyway whether this kind of suicide is legal or not. Downes and his wife could have easily committed suicide themselves.
I 100% agree with that. To me the distinction is one of principle — do we, officially, support people’s choice to opt out, or do we go on the record as maintaining that life is worth living no matter what? People will always kill themselves; but should we as a society help them do this?
The best chance we have at predicting the future is to help create it. Nothing will ever go according to plan, but should the plans not have the best intentions anyway?
I’m always so happy when you pop up here, Robert. I wish you commented more frequently but I suppose you’re off doing fun music-related things while I’m stuck at a computer at work, so I can’t begrudge you that.
Oh, and I don’t want to see anyone choose abortion either. And I don’t support republican politicians, generally speaking. It seems we have quite a bit in common. ;)