Vacation July 27-31
My 4 grandsons (8, 5, 2, and 2) are spending the next 5 days with us during our church’s Vacation Bible School.
So I’m taking this time off of blogging to spend with them.
When I took time off this past January, the monthly stats were higher than December! So I know you’ll carry on just fine without me. If you have any news to report or discussion items, just add them as a comment to this post.
Meanwhile, stay on top of pro-life news at LifeNews.com, LifeSiteNews.com, and ProLifeBlogs.com.
The moderators, Kelli, and I will all be checking in from time to time, or more often than that. Email any of us for any reason.
Thanks!
Jul.27, 2009 7:48 am |
Site updates |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
have some great time off, Jill!
You are a brave woman taking on 4 kids under the age of 8 (but then we all knew THAT!) ;)
Sounds like someone’s going to have their hands FULL for awhile….. ;-)
Have fun with your sweet grandsons this week, Jill!
Have a wonderful time with the grandkids, Jill! :)
Cool, have fun!
Jill,
Enjoy your time-off!
****
Just found this article online :
Planned Parenthood Labors to Bulldoze Law Requiring Doctors to Tell Women that Abortion Ends a Human Life
Apparently Planned Parenthood is still trying to keep women in the dark about abortion, hoping to change South Dakota informed consent law –
Former PP abortion-provider, pro-life Dr. Patti Giebink, M.D. writes an article that appears at http://momsforlife.blogspot.com/2009/07/planned-parenthood-labors-to-bulldoze.html
***At the end of the article, pro-lifers are encouraged to contact South Dakota’s Governor Rounds and the South Dakota Dept. of Health. Please do!!
Grandsons?!?!
How old is that picture there? 10-15 years?
I wonder which will be the more stressful duty, fighting the good fight for Life or supervising “the brood” for a week :D
Have fun!
Have a great time!! Coffee helps.
Jill, I have given this careful thought and consideration and I have decided that you cannot stop blogging while you are on vacation. After all, what are the rest of us going to do? No one is going to know what to think without your daily insights and commentary. Everyone is just going to be moping around in a daze.
Besides what if abortion breaks out?
Oh, shove it, TCR.
Have a great vacation, Jill.
“Besides what if abortion breaks out?”
It already has. TODAY alone, roughly 115,000 babies will be aborted throughout the world (3700 of those in the U.S.).
xalisae,
LOL!
Too funny Xalisae!
Jill,
Kindergarten Kop comes to mind.
The probabilities for conflicts and catastrophes expand exponentialy with the inclusion of each additional child, and they will not behave to according to the mean age of the cadre but rather will devolve in the direction of the youngest child.
If you do drink coffee, I recomend de-caffeinated.
A better alternative would be a tall glass of red wine or depending on how tightly you are wound ‘sans infants, medicinal marijuana might be warranted.
You might even consider ‘spiking’ the utes coolaid with some vodka or gin, just to mellow them out a bit.
I am joking.
The GOD who even raises the dead is able to make you stand without spot or wrinkle, well at least not any additional wrinkles.
yor bro ken
Jill Stanek, caring for Kids? Their in good hands, and so is this blog… because Carla is in my personal opinion more than able to keep us all in line! So You can’t go on vacation yet, till Jill get’s back! Smile!
File this story under: Take back the night; Stop violent women.
“www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/jul/27/port-st-lucie-woman-accused-of-hurling-wine-at/”
Port St. Lucie Woman Accused Of Hurling Wine Bottles At Girlfriend
[at least she did not ‘hurl’ on her]
By Will Greenlee (Contact)
Monday, July 27, 2009
A 62-year-old woman faces a felony charge after allegedly hurling wine bottles at her girlfriend of 35 years after an argument, according to an affidavit released Monday.
The victim, Laura June Sparks, 59,
told police she’d been drinking and that her “lover of 35 years,” Jana Sue Linney, 62, grew tired of it.
Linney allegedly got angry and threw wine bottles at the victim while she tried to leave.
Investigators found broken bottles on the home’s floor in front of the door.
Arrested early Saturday morning, Linney faces a felony aggravated assault charge.
yor bro ken
Make a quick stop in Florida, will you?
Thanks all for well wishes! As we begin Day 3 of the Grandsons Four’s visit, the clan is happy, enjoying each other, and thriving!
Here’s an article in the American Spectator on phony pro-lifer Tim Ryan: http://spectator.org/blog/2009/07/27/pro-lifers-for-planned-parenth
From Jill’s link at AS…
“Not long ago, Ramesh Ponnuru said of Ryan in National Review, “Nowadays his allegedly ‘pro-life’ advocacy consists almost entirely of working with [pro-choice] Congresswoman DeLauro to funnel more money to abortion providers.” It’s the kind of logic that gets you an ambassadorship to Malta these days.”
No kidding.
Make a quick stop in Florida, will you?
Posted by: carder at July 28, 2009 12:16 AM
How’s life in the Sunshine State these days?
According to William Saletan at Slate Magazine we are “the militant old guard of the pro-life movement”. I take offense to being called “old”.
More about PPL’s (phony pro-lifers):
See:
“Culture of Death, The Right Wing Assault on abortion reduction”
*www.slate.com/id/2223661?nav=wp*
Mat Staver rocks!
I’m already missing Jill’s posts.
Bethany @ 10:15,
Me too!
_ _ _ _
Correction to http listed at 3:07 PM
Cut and paste between the *
*www.slate.com/id/2223661/*
Good article on on Ryan/DeLauro bill and contraception failure rates.
“Why does increased access to contraception fail at the population level? Thinking they are protected from pregnancy and disease, more young people become sexually active and have more partners, offsetting any reduction in pregnancy from individual contraceptive use. And the increased level of sexual activity causes STD rates to soar. In the U.S., 1 in 4 teen girls has at least one STD; many of these are incurable and some are fatal.”
www(dot)usccb.org/prolife/publicat/lifeissues/072409.shtml
Let the Taxpayers Beware!
By Susan E. Wills
Assistant Director for Education and Outreach in the Secretariat of Pro-Life Activities, U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Found something interesting on the circumstances of Tim Ebow’s (latest Heisman trophy winner) birth:
http://www.filipinas.inquirer.net/?p=2021
That’s why there needs to be more honesty and shared education techniques for young people between pro-life and pro-choice individuals.
Pro-choice individuals need to be more forthcoming about contraception failure rates, and abstinence-only educators need to take for granted that their students are going to be having sex and educate with that in mind, because many many many ARE going to be. This means ALSO stressing condom use. Pro-life-side educators need to teach NFP concepts and techniques to young women and men. This will eliminate a good portion of people who end up seeking abortion because they were merely testing their fertility. Comprehensive sex ed. supporters need to stress the FAILURE RATES of contraception instead of touting all forms of contraception are nearly 100% effective. To a kid this sounds like a good deal, and a safe bet. It’s not as good as they think it is, and we need to start telling them this.
I’ve heard the argument from pro-choicers that “If we stress the failures of condoms and contraception, then kids will just say ‘why bother?’ and go ahead without them anyway.” This is ridiculous. There is a certain chance of skin cancer involved in staying out in the sun, but knowing that doesn’t keep me out of the sun, it just makes me use more sunscreen. Give the kids some credit. It’s not as though touting condoms and birth control as some sort of magical talismans has been super-duper effective thus far as it is, right? Let’s try something new.
And I know that comment seems all over the place, but this issue I feel has not been addressed properly at all.
There are all kinds of kids. There are kids that are going to do what you told them not to just because you told them not to do it. They need straight information only, not a poor attempt and frightening them out of something or a stern lecture, because they’re too dumb to be scared or listen to helpful direction.
There are kids who are on the fence about things and are independent thinkers. They’re essentially good kids, but need some guidance. They need advice and information. Abstinence-only programs might work for them, because they might come to conclusion abstinence is the best option. But if they’re in a relationship, and they think it’s serious enough for abstinence to not be the best option, they need resources to help them with that choice AND facts about birth control and STD’s to help limit the impact of such a decision on their lives.
There are impressionable kids that are not so bright. They do the right thing, or whatever they are told, because fear is a powerful motivator for them. They are authority-pleasers and you could probably get away with abstinence-only education for them alone.
But this is why parental involvement is so friggin’ important to the problem we are having today. You have to KNOW these kids. You have to KNOW what types they are. Some are smart, some not so much. But these facts determine what kind of instruction they need, and as it stands, they’re not getting it from either side.
Speaking of violence against women: MA Women killed, 8 months into her pregnancy, fetus cut from womb. Police are looking for killer & the baby. She leaves behind 3 little ones.
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090729/NEWS11/90729005
Xalisae, I get what you are saying, some are good ideas but I don’t totally buy it. Sexual education is the ONLY area of health and safety education where we give kids a false sense of security and excuses for risky behavior by saying ‘you’re going to have sex anyway, so when you do wear a condom”. We don’t tell them “when you smoke, use filtered cigarettes”, when you get drunk, drink some coffee to try to sober up” and “when you do drugs, this is how to safely get high”. Every health and safety education teacher knows that some teens are going to: drink, do drugs, smoke cigarettes, drink and drive and even a few of their students will kill themselves or someone else in a horrible accident over the years that they teach, but they still consistently give them the safest, healthiest message “DON’T smoke, DON’T do drugs or DON’T drink alcohol” The message stays the same because the consequenes can be devastating, life-changing or even take their life, (sexual activity can do these 3 things as well) but just because there are kids that refuse to listen, kids that may engage in risky behaviors and some seem to get away with it, they still don’t change the message.
You are right about personal involvement of parents being essential. I taught my kids early how valuable their hearts, their bodies and their futures were, when they were pre-teens told them the facts about sex and every form of “so-called protection”, letting them know there was no such thing as “safe sex”, that there were physical, emotional, mental and spiritual consequences to sex. I let them in high school hear the spiel about the different forms of contraception again, then followed it up with what I knew about contraception failure. Did you know “53% of pregnancies in the U.S occur among women who were using contraception”? Did you know that condom failure rates for teens is not 15% but in actual use the rate is 24-36%? Did you know most teen relationships only last 2-3 months? Did you know the longer your are in a sexual relationship the more likely you are to stop using contraception (usually by 3-4 months)? Personal stories of our friends and relatives helped as well. Taught how to avoid risky situations, healthy relationships, physical boundaries etc.? They rolled their eyes and said “There you go again” but guess what? They were listening even though they acted like they were not.
For those determined to have sex anyway, they can play “condom roulette” “the pregnancy scare game”, “skin-to-skin STD transmission jeopardy” and “heartbreak wheel of fortune” to see how much they like to gamble, I would suggest they try everything imaginable because they are going to still deal with consequences. I wouldn’t recommend it, but it does come down to being their decision. There are good websites for parents http://www.4parents.gov and http://www.ampartnership.org which helps parents talk to their kids and promote abstinence.
“Pro-life-side educators need to teach NFP concepts and techniques to young women and men. This will eliminate a good portion of people who end up seeking abortion because they were merely testing their fertility. ”
What? “Testing their fertility”?? Is this the mindset of some of the women out there? I’ve never heard such a goofy thing. YIKES.
Ladies, even if you get pregnant once, it’s no guarantee you’ll be able to get pregnant again.
Sexual education is the ONLY area of health and safety education where we give kids a false sense of security and excuses for risky behavior by saying ‘you’re going to have sex anyway, so when you do wear a condom”. We don’t tell them “when you smoke, use filtered cigarettes”, when you get drunk, drink some coffee to try to sober up” and “when you do drugs, this is how to safely get high”.”
Yeah, and I agree they shouldn’t be given a pass, that’s why I say abstinence-only SHOULD be presented first. But what you are saying totally ignores the fact that some kids DO AND WILL smoke, some kids DO AND WILL drink, and some kids DO AND WILL try and use drugs. You can’t just ignore those kids, because they’re the lion’s share of the problem. How many women who have abortions are repeat customers? They are the one’s adding to the average, and also the ones that the pro-life side is IGNORING BY PUSHING ABSTINENCE-ONLY.
There is no way to make doing drugs safer for our kids. There is no way to make getting drunk safer for our kids. There is no way to make smoking cigarettes safer for our kids. There ARE, however, a few ways to make sex safer for not only OUR kids, but THEIR kids too (the targets of potential abortions), and we shouldn’t rule it out if it’s a known fact that those kids ARE partaking in those negative behaviors. We can still tell them “Hey, don’t do that. But if you’re going to, do this first, and you better pray I don’t catch you.” I don’t see why you have to see properly instructing our kids and keeping them safe as a conflict of interest, and I don’t think any children should be ignored, even if they ARE making unwise choices. If you’re offering a condom, don’t just offer the condom. Ask WHY they need it. Get involved. It’s never too late, and we shouldn’t act like there’s no hope for some kids. There’s always hope.
“Pro-life-side educators need to teach NFP concepts and techniques to young women and men. This will eliminate a good portion of people who end up seeking abortion because they were merely testing their fertility. ”
What? “Testing their fertility”?? Is this the mindset of some of the women out there? I’ve never heard such a goofy thing. YIKES.
Ladies, even if you get pregnant once, it’s no guarantee you’ll be able to get pregnant again.
Posted by: Janet at July 29, 2009 9:59 PM
Yes, Janet. I found some figures from the Guttmacher institute that found that an overwhelming majority of abortions were due to “failed contraception”. I then found that number broken down to “improper or inconsistent use of contraception”. I couldn’t believe that THAT MANY WOMEN/MEN had trouble slipping on condoms/swallowing a pill once a day, and with good reason. Someone here answered one of my posts one day on the topic (I can’t remember who, but would greatly appreciate that person speaking up, because I’d be highly interested in the study) and said that a survey company queried women coming in for abortions on contraception, and found that many women were “testing their fertility”. Disturbing, I know.
I’m not just interested in ending abortion. I’m interested in HOW to end abortion. And ending it to EVERYONE’S satisfaction.
I thought I would tell people here first (other than a select few of my friends/family) that I am pregnant with #7!
I am hoping for some good wishes to buoy me before I make it general knowledge to those I know, you know, before all the comments start.
I found a shirt that said; Yes, Im pregnant again…. Yes, I know what causes it… No, I do not have too many. I think I will just wear that shirt every time I step out of the house so I dont have to listen to any dumb comments.
HECK YEAH, Kristen! Congrats to you, your husband, and your wonderful children. I’m so proud of you. Just keep in mind that when random strangers chastise you for your CHOICE, that you are imitating Our Lord by being mocked and hated for following him, and that is a great grace.
That shirt is awesome, BTW.
Oh, and also know that you have a decent sized group here at Jill’s who support you always :)
congrats on #7!
and don’t listen to those comments, people ask me if i have too many and i only have three
Congratulations Kristen. I am from a family of seven kids and we had seven of our own. It’s a magic number, I tells ya. Doesn’t hurt if you’re Irish either.
Today is the second day of my sister’s adult life: she turned eighteen yesterday. :)
Congratulations, Kristen. :)
And excellent posts, Xalisae. :)
Hoping that your vacation with your grandsons is nice and pleasant, too. :)
Doesn’t hurt if you’re Irish either.
Posted by: Andy at July 30, 2009 10:28 AM
My maiden name was McManamon! My dad was the oldest of seven so I am just following the family tradition.
Thanks for the good wishes Andy and Bobby.
Bobby, I found another t-shirt I thought was cute – maybe you could get it for your wife when the next little bambino comes along. I said; I can grow people. Whats your superpower?
(Sorry, my quotes and apostrophe still arent working…)
I said = It said. oops!
Congratulations, Kristen! :) I hope you have a good pregnancy and healthy baby.
You’re a braver soul than I, Kristen. Congrats! I’m the oldest of six, my mom is the second oldest of 9. Currently, my husband who was an only child until he was 9 years old is enjoying playing with the brothers and sisters he never had: my youngest brother and sister who still live at home (and occasionally my middle brother who lives in the area and visits my mom and dad frequently). Siblings are such a joy, and I can’t wait for my husband and I to finish our educations and begin our careers so we can adequately provide for many many future adopted siblings to complete our family. Oooo, I’m so jealous! My middle sister and middle brother’s wife are both expecting right now, and I can’t wait for the babies this December!
Congrats to your sis, Vannah. My youngest sis turned 18 in January, and she’s getting ready to head out to college. I feel so old (but I bet my parents feel older XD )
And thanks. Too bad both sides actually coming together with kids’ best interests at heart and ready to accept realities that might be unpleasant for them is rather unlikely to happen. :(
Congratulations, Kristin! That’s great news!
Prolifer L —
Sexual education is the ONLY area of health and safety education where we give kids a false sense of security and excuses for risky behavior by saying ‘you’re going to have sex anyway, so when you do wear a condom”. We don’t tell them “when you smoke, use filtered cigarettes”, when you get drunk, drink some coffee to try to sober up” and “when you do drugs, this is how to safely get high”.”
But we tell kids, “Driving can be dangerous, so always wear a seatbelt, obey the speed limit, and check your blind spot.” And I think that we as a culture would benefit from a type of alcohol education other than simply “don’t drink…..until now! go!” because the fact is that even kids who never drink before 21 will one day probably have to learn how to manage alcohol, even if that just means learning how to manage social expectations when there is no longer a legal reason to turn down a drink. Most people will drink alcohol at some point in their lives, and most people will have sex at some point in their lives. Alcohol, driving, and sex are not inherently destructive or unhealthy things, like most illegal drugs, but they can certainly be used in destructive and unhealthy ways.
I think that kids should be made aware of the failure rates of BC — not the success rates — and given a comprehensive education, including reasons to wait. I do not think that birth control is the only area where we teach kids, “This can be dangerous, so make sure to be safe,” — and I think there are other areas where we would do better to teach kids that lesson, as well.
“Most people will drink alcohol at some point in their lives, and most people will have sex at some point in their lives.”
Unless we find that they both smell pretty bad.
Kristin,
Congratulations. God bless you and yours. Both T-shirts sound very cute!
This is off-topic but I thought it was relevant and interesting. I have a friend who has been trying to conceive for about 5 years now, and has just started IVF. Today she found out how many eggs were fertilized, and was overjoyed to find that 11 out of 12 were. Apparently this allows the doctor to do a five-day transfer rather than a more-common three-day transfer, because he can make a judgment call about which are strongest in that time.
She was telling me this via e-mail and she said two things that I thought were interesting:
“My dad just called me and said ‘I hear I’m a grandpa of 11?’ My parents are so excited, it’s too adorable.”
“I am coming to terms with the fact that I am seriously emotionally vested in these embryos. Not in a “I’m going to become pro-life” kind of way…lol But I can’t tell you how much I’m thinking about and rooting for them to develop well. It’s so weird.”
I just thought it was interesting.
If you are emotionally invested, you probably pro-life, dear.
How many will your sister-in-law implant? This is very sad to me that some embryos will die. What could remedy this situation?
Congrats, Kristen! Praying that you have a healthy and happy pregnancy.
Ladies, even if you get pregnant once, it’s no guarantee you’ll be able to get pregnant again.
Posted by: Janet at July 29, 2009 9:59 PM
The sterility rate from abortion is 2-5%. I was glad to finally see a number after hearing heart-breaking stories from women who’d put to death the only children they’d ever conceive. Though two to five percent sounds like very few, to put it in perspective, that means of the roughly 40 women I see in two Saturdays at Planned Parenthood, one or two of them will never be able to have another child. Heart-breaking. I can’t imagine what coming to that realization must be like.
Kristen, congrats! I, too, am one of seven siblings and big families are wonderful. May God give you an extra measure of grace every time you face a challenge to your growing family.
Janet, I don’t know. That’s from my friend, not my sister-in-law, and those quotes were from her, not me. I just thought they were interesting — like, a certain disconnect, or something. Especially the one from her dad.
Alexandra,
Sorry. I agree there is certainly a disconnect. Maybe this will be a time of conversion for her, who knows… Apparently I’m suffering from a mental disconnect of my own. Maybe it’s time for a break. :)
Have a good day.
“My dad just called me and said ‘I hear I’m a grandpa of 11?’ My parents are so excited, it’s too adorable.”
Except probably only 2 or 3 will ever get born….
Janet: “How many will your sister-in-law implant? This is very sad to me that some embryos will die. What could remedy this situation?”
Embryo adoption.
Kristen,
Congrats from a ‘grizzled’ father of five surviving children.
You are blessed!
yor bro ken
I thought I would tell people here first (other than a select few of my friends/family) that I am pregnant with #7!
I am hoping for some good wishes to buoy me before I make it general knowledge to those I know, you know, before all the comments start.
I found a shirt that said; Yes, Im pregnant again…. Yes, I know what causes it… No, I do not have too many. I think I will just wear that shirt every time I step out of the house so I dont have to listen to any dumb comments.
Posted by: Kristen at July 30, 2009 9:03 AM
wonderful news! AND great T-shirt!
Hooray Kristen, so glad to hear your news. Congratulations! God bless you and your wonderful bundle from heaven. “Children are a heritage unto the Lord, the fruit of the womb is His reward”. No one has the right to ask you any of those questions that you are responding to on your t-shirt, it actually is none of their business, you are not asking them to help raise or financially support your children. By the way, I think the t-shirt is a cute idea.
To get back to Xalisae, please don’t misunderstand me. We agree on most things especially the need for teens to be educated first with the abstinence message which should include strategies like teaching goal-setting decision-making, refusal skills, handling peer pressure, boundary setting and guidelines for healthy relationships. Telling teens to just say “NO” is not quality abstinence education, this is how most comprehensive sex ed. promoters try to label abstinence ed. There are teens who do not even know that they don’t “have to have sex” or know any strategies for NOT having sex. I know I don’t have all the answers but think about this. What has happened since the sexual revolution and all the billions being spent on comprehensive sex ed.? How many different STDs there are now (from 2 major STDs to over 25), the epidemic numbers of STDs, the unplanned pregnancies etc. but that is not the most critical problem to me teens are looking for love and guidance (not really for sex). WHERE HAVE ALL THE ADULTS GONE? I think my point is still well taken that ALL risky behaviors incuding alcohol, drug, tobacoo use and sexual activity should be discouraged by health educators. I don’t care how many kids are going to engage in them, we don’t lower the bar because some are going to do it. “No one rises to low expectations” a quote by Les Brown. “Just because everyone else is going to jump off the bridge, does that mean you are going to do it too” quoted by good mothers and fathers everywhere. I already agreed that there are teens who are going to do drugs, drink alcohol and smoke but giving them a false sense of security that is not the answer either. I don’t have a problem with them knowing about contraception but I think one of the reasons abortion is such a problem for us now is that for the 53% who got pregnant using contraception that failed they want abortion as their “out” because the pills, patches, shots and condoms didn’t work. But I think more important than all that, we are still missing the emotional, mental and spiritual devastation of premarital sex and abortion that break so many hearts, torment the minds of our kids and kill the spirit that is what I see with the many teens I have dealt with.
Kristen, congrats! Baby #7 is due to make his arrival any time now around our house (and yes, being Irish DOES help! LOL).
I’m on maternity leave now so I have hopefully at least a couple of weeks to get things in order before Patrick makes his arrival, but the way things are going, that is about ALL I can expect!
(AND my SIL has already asked when we’re planning #8! LOL)
Posted by: Kristen at July 30, 2009 9:03 AM
How many will your sister-in-law implant? This is very sad to me that some embryos will die. What could remedy this situation?
Posted by: Janet at July 30, 2009 2:33 PM
not doing IVF in the first place and accepting the cross of infertility and looking to adopt.
Congratulations, Kristen!! :)
Posted by: Elisabeth at July 30, 2009 10:58 PM
My dad was named Patrick! How fun to have him coming soon. My youngest daughter is thrilled and my oldest is devastated. How embarrassing to have a mom that is pregnant when she is in high school. ;) She has never even changed a diaper on any of the others but you would think she will be the sole caregiver of this one with the dramatics that are going on.
Thank you guys again for all the good wishes!
Kristen, congratulations!!!
“But I think more important than all that, we are still missing the emotional, mental and spiritual devastation of premarital sex…”
I guess this is where we’re having the problem. I never experienced any “devastation” related to premarital sex. I don’t really think premarital sex is such a horrible, terrible thing if it happens within the confines of a stable relationship. A kid just running around sleeping with every guy she meets IS a terrible thing, but premarital sex is probably the least of her troubles, and kids like that need counciling (and PARENTING!) that they’re just not getting. But I slept with a boyfriend or two that I didn’t end up marrying, and sorry, but it didn’t ruin my life forever and traumatize me.
Alcohol, driving, and sex are not inherently destructive or unhealthy things, like most illegal drugs, but they can certainly be used in destructive and unhealthy ways.
I’ve been following this discussion from my mobile phone. That’s a very good point, Alexandra :) Rather, we need to teach others, including our children, moderation and responsibility.
Wow! Xaliase, so now there are no emotional, mental and spiritual consequences for sex and as long as we can avoid an unplanned pregnancy, have as much sex as you want with as many partners as you want in a so-called “stable” relationship, it is all good. How sad that you don’t even know how precious and invaluable you are, how precious and sacred your gift of sexuality is, how beautiful God created this gift to be for you to share within marriage and the volumes of research that prove that married sex if more fulfilling, more frequent and more satisfying than any other catagory (singles, divorced, separated or cohabiting couples). Married people are happier, healthier and wealthier than any other group, less depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, mental illness, chronic disease, heart attack, strokes and live longer.
I recommend you read The Case for Marriage by Linda J. Waite and Maggie Gallagher (Breoadway Books) and Why Marriage Matters by Glenn T. Stamton (Pinion Press) if you want to see the documented research.
So if I understand you right, there is nothing wrong without sex outside of marriage. it’s only wrong to have “unprotected sex” and get caught having an unplanned pregnancy. What we really need is sex education without any emotional and moral basis. Your experience of sex without any regrets is interesting because research says teens who are sexually active are more likely to be depressed (girls 3X, boys 2X)and become suicidal (girls 3X, boys 8X)than teens who are NOT having sex, and I have seen this increased likelihood of stess and depression with teens myself.
I have to ask you Xaliase, if premarital sexual activity has no emotional, mental and spiritual consequences and is basically a positive physical experience then why do you think abortion needs to be reduced (if you do believe abortion needs to be reduced)? I will indeed pray for you.
Married people are happier, healthier and wealthier than any other group, less depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, mental illness, chronic disease, heart attack, strokes and live longer.
I take issue with this comment. What about domestic violence? Domestic violence and physical/emotional abuse can occur in any relationship, married or not. Marriage is no guarantee of protection from abuse or heartache.
Jyw, you both missed my statement in my post at 9:19pm that the most critical thing is that teens are looking for LOVE and GUIDANCE (not really the sex). WHERE HAVE ALL THE ADULTS GONE? That is why the sex is not the main thing and the depression and suicide is higher for them than teens who are not having sex. Sex as a physical exercise leads to emptyness because sex is supposed to mean something. When someone takes their clothes off and gives their naked body to someone else it was meant to bond that person to the other and to promote intimacy “In To Me You See”- the real meaning of intimacy. Don’t buy into the counterfeit.
Although I disagree that sex outside of marriage is not a bad thing, I will pray for you both to understand what true sexual intimacy is about. I have to go now. May God open your eyes.
“Your experience of sex without any regrets is interesting because research says teens who are sexually active are more likely to be depressed (girls 3X, boys 2X)and become suicidal (girls 3X, boys 8X)than teens who are NOT having sex, and I have seen this increased likelihood of stess and depression with teens myself.”
Pro-lifer L,
Those statistics, if true, are shocking. Do you have a source for those? It appears as though premarital sex is especially dangerous emotionally for boys. Maybe they become more emotionally involved than they anticipated (listening to how the culture views sex as no big deal) and can’t handle break-ups as well as women….. It would be interesting to hear what guys think about this.
Hi.
JustYouWait is now JYW. Her comments will of course be deleted.
Hi Carla,
He/she is pretty sneaky, huh?
Hello Janet!!
She seems to think so.
There are times when I clearly understand why the pro-choice side stereotypes the pro-life side as zealots with a religious agenda. This is one of those times. I’m not at all opposed to a discussion about various notions about sexuality and discerning the best way to get out an inclusive message of life and responsibility. But I have to admit, I tend to scroll right past the God-centered comments. Certainly there are religious tenants that are applicable when approaching guidelines for sexual activity, but I think most of the more effective principles are better portrayed as common sense that is beneficial to the individual and society, rather than stemming from a particular religion.
When it comes to consenting adults, I don’t care what goes on as long as no one’s rights are compromised. Obviously, it’s best to wait for a stable situation (marriage being the most popular type of stable situation) before having sex, for the sake of one’s own interests and those of potential children. I’m down with encouraging that sort of arrangement – responsiblity and discernment and the seriousness of one’s sexual choices – all that tends to make everyone much happier. But I’m not really down with an all-or-nothing mentality, where I have to consistently uphold the message that sex outside of marriage equals pain and suffering (whether that person experiences said paid and suffering or not). Yes, I care about people making the best choices for their lives, but not to the point that any deviation from the ideal results in scolding.
I feel similarly about teenagers. Yes, generally speaking, abstinence until marriage is the best method to promote. It eliminates the risk of so many unpleasant experiences and feelings. But, realistically speaking, I’m not too heart-broken over teenagers who are otherwise responsible having sex in a decently stable relationship. The problem is that genuinely healthy relationships among teenagers may be few and far between, and hard to manage given the stresses and complications of being a teenager, thus why abstinence is a good one size fits all approach. If teenagers manage to size up the risks and accept the responsiblities and options and decide to have sex with their long-time boy/girlfriend and consider it a pleasant experience, I can’t honestly say I care.
Janette, I agree 100% with everything you said.
Ok…I haven’t researched this, so all I have to go by is my own personal experience. Forgive me if that doesn’t match up with your data.
Sex to me has always been special, and I’ve never just thrown myself at someone I couldn’t have seen myself marry and procreate with (which is where I think a large part of the abortion problem is: people having sex without much thought with people they don’t want to procreate with). But the fact that these relationships didn’t work out didn’t kill me. Relationships breaking up (with or without sex) is hard. Someone breaking up with you is hard (with or without sex). Breaking up with someone else is hard (with or without sex).
But how nice of you to pass judgment on my past relationships and blow things out of proportion in such a way as to make me sound like a woman of questionable morals, as if I was handing it out to anyone who would take some (“…as many as you want with as many partners as you want…”). Just…no? I had two boyfriends before I finally met the man who would become my husband. Two. Not 3 or 5 or 10 or 15. Two. And it wasn’t because I wanted to sleep around with as many guys as I could. It was because a.) the first one ended up being a womanizer who didn’t love me (which I’m glad I found out BEFORE getting married, which it sounds like we would’ve if you had your way) and b.) the second was a very weak man who wanted me to be the goddess at the center of his universe, and I never felt the same way about him. I wanted a man who would treat me as an equal, not a worshiper to put me on a pedestal. But, I am very glad I had those relationships to learn from before finally meeting my husband. I was able to learn parameters for “good” relationships vs. “bad” relationships (emotional, physical, etc.) instead of just pretty much having to settle for whatever I happened to end up with first.
“How sad that you don’t even know how precious and invaluable you are, how precious and sacred your gift of sexuality is…”
Oh, I know now better than ever. I value myself as much as I believe to be healthy. And, most of the problems I’ve had in my life regarding sexuality is due to people like you telling me how sinful sex is. GLAD I GOT OVER THAT! (with some help from my husband)
He and I were together first for about 6 months without any physical contact whatsoever, then for roughly a year without being married, then I had our daughter (which I didn’t even see as a bad thing…I was happy and excited), then another year before finally getting married. Weighing our premarital vs. marital relations, I fail to see the difference. Sorry I don’t see the premarital time as some horrible atrocity that should damage me for life. Just because you think I should regret my life doesn’t mean I will.
Now, keeping in mind that I didn’t become sexually active until I was about 19 years old, I’d say that kids who start before that probably need a little more supervision and guidance. But that still doesn’t include heaping helpings of self-righteous condemnation. That doesn’t help anyone. Maybe you, but you don’t need any help, because your life is obviously perfect, right?
And, for the record, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having an unplanned pregnancy, either. My husband’s mom was 17 when she had him, only had a short-lived relationship with his dad. His dad was still in his life, and they did a good job of raising him. He’s a good man, and I love him. Because of him, I’ve learned to become more accepting of other peoples’ family arrangements, and I’m glad of it. Maybe you should meet some nice people with non-traditional families. It really helps cure the judgmentals. You seem to have a horrible case.
“I have to ask you Xaliase, if premarital sexual activity has no emotional, mental and spiritual consequences and is basically a positive physical experience then why do you think abortion needs to be reduced (if you do believe abortion needs to be reduced)? I will indeed pray for you.
Posted by: Prolifer L at July 31, 2009 3:22 PM”
It’s not ALWAYS a positive physical experience. I never said it was. As a matter of fact, I’m pretty sure I advocated kids not having sex whenever possible. I just CHOOSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE FACTS-kids ARE having sex. Period! Their parents and schools are failing them, and this is an indication of that. In lieu of the kids not having sex, because they are, I’d like to see them educated in the ways they need to be for the activity they happen to ALREADY be engaging in. I wouldn’t advocate that kids who are not having sex go out and have it. I just want the kids who are to be given the resources they need. How about talking to the kids who are having sex and asking them why? With whom? When? And then we can take that information and try to get them to see why maybe they shouldn’t be, and at the very least make sure it won’t do any permanent damage to their lives! Treating kids like they’re not having sex and denying the kids they are things that will help them isn’t going to fix things, and will probably only make things worse. Like it has been.
And now you’re questioning whether or not I think abortion needs to be reduced? That’s just stupid, and quite frankly, crossing the line with me. Not only do I think abortion needs to be reduced, it needs to be eliminated. It should never be legal to kill someone else, period. And that’s just ANOTHER message that a lot of these kids aren’t getting and need to be. But see, once again you can’t think outside your little judgment-bubble. My husband’s mom is/was pro-choice, so he never saw abortion as being wrong, because he wasn’t raised that way. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe a lot of these kids were raised in pro-choice households? That maybe they choose abortion by default because that’s all they are presented with, and that perhaps pro-lifers ACKNOWLEDGING that kids have sex instead of just screaming “NO SEX! DON’T HAVE SEX! SEX IS BAD!” at the kids isn’t taking into account that they a.) are and will be having sex and b.) will choose abortion when they get pregnant because they don’t know that it is wrong because no one has ever talked to them about it in-depth? Nooooo, of course not. That certainly cannot be. Everyone was raised JUST LIKE YOU. By parents JUST LIKE YOURS. In a home that was EXACTLY THE SAME. Right.
You’d be surprised what you hear from pro-choicers when you actually listen to them. Most of it is b.s., and most of that is the only information they’ve ever been presented with.
UGH. Just. UGH. Go read your bible and leave me alone.
Posted by: Janette at July 31, 2009 5:41 PM
Thanks for being civil, articulate, and understanding.
I absolutely lost it, and I apologize, but that was just too much.
I’m writing a novel. I’m not telling what its about RJ
xalisae,
I don’t blame you one bit. Receiving the condescending “I will be praying for you” remark after an accusational comment definitely warrants losing it.
I’m a Christian (fundy southern baptist, even – yikes!), but I think pro-life beliefs are solid on their own merit. The message of accountability for one’s own actions, real science instead of ideology, genuine concern for women and families, and the defense of innocent human life…these ethics easily stand on their own. Religion is fine as a supplemental argument, a sort of spiritual reinforcement if one is needed, but I find that constantly infusing it into the pro-life debate is often divisive and creates an uncomfortable and exclusive tone.
How has premarital sex “helped” our young people?
It did not “help” me. It did not bring joy, peace or stability. It diminished me as a person, as a woman. Everything Prolifer described was me. Looking for love and giving myself away and after awhile it just didn’t matter anymore and I let myself be used. STD’s, a broken heart, zero self-esteem and an abortion culminated it all. I am hardly alone in that respect. I read abortion story after abortion story and they all have so many common themes. Many of us were coerced into sex as well and when pregnant were pressured to abort.
I have a brother in law, Paul, who is in his early 60’s.
His feet were bothering him so he went to see a podiatrist.
The podiatrist examined him and told him his shoes were too small and that was the source of his discomfort.
Paul said I don’t understand. These are the same size shoes I have been wearing all my adult life.
They feel perfectly ‘normal’ to me.
The podiatrist said, Then you have been wearing shoes that are too small all your adult life and now the pain in your feet is informing you of the fact.
(‘Normal’ is a relative term.)
Paul’s family was similar to mine. When he was a child his mother bought his shoes for him. She made the final determination on what was a proper ‘fit’.
(I remember my mom pressing down on the end of my shoe to see if there was a gap between my toes and the tip of the shoe.)
Evidently Paul’s mother did not have the correct concept of a shoe that fit properly and bought him shoes that were too small. Paul inherited the same mis-conception about how the correct size shoes ‘feel’ on his feet. To Paul the ‘feel’ of his mis-sized shoes was ‘normal’.
Paul now buys a larger size shoe and his feet are lovin it. (I now buy a larger size shoe and my feet are lovin’ it as well.)
We all have done things we should not have done and the experience has affected has in ways that may not presently be noticable. But none the less, the experience has injured and/or ‘altered’ who we are.
We are all injured in many ways and the pain that we have always known and to which we have grown accustomed to is ‘normal’.
We probably will not know it was there until it is gone or until someone else shows us.
Our heavenly Father knows what’s best for us. HE instructed us to do some things and to avoid certain things to protect us because HE loves us.
If you ask GOD HE will show you were you are wounded and HE will heal you and the pain will be gone and only a scar may remain to remind you that you were once blind and now you can see.
yor bro ken
If Jesus was right when he said two people become one flesh, then sex has to effect us.
We have ceremonies to consecrate the vows we make to one another when we determine we want to spend the rest of our lives together as man and wife.
But we are ‘wed’ when we become one flesh.
You are no less ‘wed’ when you become one flesh with someone even if you never said “I do!?!?” in a civil or in a religious ceremony.
There are some realities that transcend law and customs.
One of the evidences that two people have become one flesh is a third person who is a result of the “joining”.
yor bro ken
Xalisae,
I think you are a really really cool person with many gifts. One of your more prominent gifts is that you are very practical, very honest, you’ve got a lot of common sense and you have very little patience for bull “crap”.
Your life experience, like Ken alluded to, sounds pretty typical although like you, I haven’t done the research. Thank you for your transparency.
I believe in the Battle for Life, we need a spectrum of good arguments and points of view because the people we are trying to reach for the unborn are obviously different and will relate to different messages – kind of like different bait for different fish.
I believe God has big plans for you but certainly there are concepts about Christianity that you have been unable to reconcile with your pragmatism. I don’t know everything, but if you’d ever like to know my take on any Christian topic you find particularly irritating, feel free to give me a shout out here or get my direct email from the mods. (Ok with me if it’s Ok with them.)
Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I think you’re cool and that I would go to war with you in the Battle for Life, anytime, anywhere. (That is if you can tolerate my bible-thumping :-)
I don’t think anyone here is advocating for teen or premarital sex or claiming that it isn’t generally harmful or should be treated flippantly. The issue here is whether it’s wise as a movement to routinely condemn all sex outside of marriage (including responsible encounters in a healthy relationship) or will that cast an overtly religious tone. It seems to be the latter. I have often heard the accusation that pro-lifers don’t really care about the well-being of women, but rather they want people to assimilate to their religious views regarding sexuality. That argument can be easily disputed by illustrating how we want women to avoid being exploited, coerced and damaged, and the best way to do that is to wait until marriage. It’s not about religion, it’s about wanting the best for everyone.
But for the few (like Xalisae) who say that although they don’t share that particular ideal, they still used caution and responsibility and don’t regret their decisions, what reason is there to take issue with that besides trying to uphold a religious ideal? If I were a pro-choice person observing this conversation, I would absolutely think that it wasn’t considered important that Xalisae accepted the responsibilities that came with premarital sex, including a pregnancy, but all that mattered was that she didn’t follow a religious formula.
Ken and Ed,
Excellent thoughtful posts. Ken, I love the shoe analogy.
Xalisae,
I appreciate your honesty as well. I feel there’s a bit of Catholic still lurking inside you somewhere that allows you to appreciate people with different outlooks than your own.
Janette,
When someone says “I’ll pray for you” it’s sincere and most appreciated by believers. I you don’t believe, don’t sweat the small stuff. It’s not the same as a curse.
Janette,
Correction to my post @ 12:43.
“IF you don’t believe, don’t sweat the small stuff. It’s not the same as a curse.”
“Prolifers who throw their religious morals about sex on everyone don’t do their cause any good. Just as people like Carla who had a tragic past shouldn’t put all the blame on sex and assume just because it harmed them it’s bad for all.”
Both religious and non-religious are perfectly within their right (of free speech) to voice their own experience and opinions. If two religious people are saved from a horrible experience, it is worth the risk of alienating two others (who may be fortunate to hear the voice of someone they can relate to in the future).
Carla,
Continue letting your voice be heard. You are one of the few with the courage to reveal a past of which you are not proud in hopes of helping another person who may be headed down the same path to heartache. May God continue to bless you.
Though Xalisae and I disagree on the topic of abortion, I wholly agree with her proposal regarding educating the youth on the topic of sex. I, too, had several sexual relationships with several individuals during my teen years, and have never felt “damaged” or “traumatized” by any of them. Frankly, I’ve never known someone who was traumatized by premarital sex, and I don’t know any virgins. Sex isn’t a bad thing, it’s a great thing. Just make sure to do it with protection, with knowledge of possible results.
I do, however, take exception with what someone said above, regarding only having sex with people you would procreate with. For someone who has no desire to procreate at all, that would eliminate sex entirely.
jyw,
“Janet, by all means Carla should tell her story and help others who have had similar experiences. She has turned her life around at last.”
Then why bring it up as if to discredit her commentary?
“As for some “catholic” remaining X allowing her to appreciate people with other outlooks …. Thanks for the hearty guffaw!”
You may or may not know, the word “catholic” means universal.
A world outlook (as opposed to “worldly”) helps a person respect people beyond their differences…. I see that in x. Not so much in many other liberals such as yourself.
Xalisae, I am indeed sorry for sounding harsh and judgemental that was not my intention. Things in print can come off very negative, so forgive me. I am glad that you escaped some of the negative consequences of premarital sex. If I and others have turned you off from Christian believers, I am sorry for that as well. I should not have questioned your pro-life stance only based on the premise that if you do not accept abstinence until marriage as the standard, you are not truly pro-life, that was an unfair assumption, forgive me for that as well.
My point in saying that I disagree with you about the emotional, mental and spiritual risks of premarital sex, especially for most teens, is backed up not only by my experience but research as well. 2/3rds of sexually active teens surveyed wish they would have waited, nearly 8 out of 10 teens agreed they should not be sexually active and 93% of teens surveyed say they should be given a “strong message”to abstain (The National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, 2004, 2000). A “moving target” or a flexible standard of waiting until you are in a “stable relationship” may sound rational but leaves teens without the “strong message” they are asking for and I believe still at risk. The information I shared about the increases in sexually active teens’ depression and suicide rates are documented in the article “Sexually Active Teenagers Are More Likely to Be Depressed and to Attempt Suicide” by Robert Rector, Kirk Johnson, Ph.D, in Lauren Noves, June 2, 2003) Dr. Armand Nicholi, Harvard Medical School Psychiatrist, stated “Sexual permissiveness has not led to greater pleasure, freedom and openness, more meaningful relationships between the sexes, or exhilarating relief from stifling inhibitions, but has often led to empty relationships, feelings of self-contempt and worthlessness. He and other psychiartrist like Dr. Paul Warren from Dallas Texas agree about this. Sexually active teens are much more likely to take drugs and drink alcohol. (Columbia Univ. National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse, 2004)
For those who think the statistics I gave about marriage are incorrect you need to read the books, the researchers of The Case for Marriage Linda Waite and Maggie Gallagher, compiled research that controlled for such factors as socio-economic level, race, and education level. Their findings were so profound that the African American Healthy Marriage Initiative website was developed using their statistics (aahmi.net).
By the way, the books cover the dramatic increased rates of physical violence for women who cohabit and for their children (by the mother’s boyfriend) versus married women.
Thank you, Prolifer L. :)
Also thanks for those studies. And, I agree that ABSOLUTELY kids should first and foremost receive a very, very strong message that it is best to wait. From my own experience, high schoolers are not ready for sexual relationships. I wasn’t back then, for certain. But, I also do not feel that it is anyone but the parents’ jobs to enforce that message, because no one but the parents CAN enforce it. You can tell kids all day long not to have sex, but only parental discipline can actually KEEP the kids from having sex, and the kids who aren’t getting that OBVIOUSLY need more help than just an impotent message of “NO!”. They obviously need things like direction and counciling if they are not getting that from their parents, and until they get the counciling and direction they need to help show them a better way, they need things like contraception and the like because they ARE having sex. And yes, it is and can be damaging for the majority of kids, but as I said before, all kids are different, and some are going to make the choice not to have sex so young on their own (like I did, for the most part. Abstained from sex until college…I kinda knew something was wrong when I finally got there and all my dormmates couldn’t believe I was a virgin…), or be able to make it responsibly without damage to themselves (as HA did). And we have to give those kids what they need. We can try to point them in what we think is the best way, but we must keep in mind that the best way for most is not the best way for all.
I do, however, take exception with what someone said above, regarding only having sex with people you would procreate with. For someone who has no desire to procreate at all, that would eliminate sex entirely.
Posted by: Human Abstract at August 1, 2009 1:38 PM
Well, just as my criteria for mate selection didn’t have a heavily-weighted religious ideology component whereas most others here, when they chose their mates, they probably considered that a priority…someone like you, HA, who isn’t anticipating procreating at all, your criteria would probably be a bit different from mine as well. And, just as I respect theirs, hope they respect mine, I respect yours too. I would just highly recommend that since you do not desire ever having children, you take precautions to avoid bringing any into the world, from conception onward. I got my tubes tied, and I love it, and if I wasn’t planning on being completely ecstatic if I ever DO happen to become pregnant again (a long shot, I know), we’d probably do other things as well, like also use condoms, have him get snipped, and also maybe use BC (but I really really REALLY want an endometrial ablation. For some reason, nobody wants to give me one. :/ )
I do, however, take exception with what someone said above, regarding only having sex with people you would procreate with. For someone who has no desire to procreate at all, that would eliminate sex entirely.
Posted by: Human Abstract at August 1, 2009 1:38 PM
The biological purpose of sex is to reproduce. It’s just reality that all sexual encounters may result in a pregnancy. If someone has no desire to procreate, I wouldn’t demand that they never have sex, and it’s up to them how they screen sexual partners. Instead, I think the best thing to do would be to proactively try to avoid pregnancy (tubes tied, condoms, whatevs) while still recognizing the possibility (however slim they may be, depending on the birth control method) that a child may result. One’s desire to avoid procreation doesn’t remove the fact that sex makes people.
Janette,
When someone says “I’ll pray for you” it’s sincere and most appreciated by believers. I you don’t believe, don’t sweat the small stuff. It’s not the same as a curse.
Posted by: Janet at August 1, 2009 12:43 PM
Generally, I agree with you. But in this case, placing an “I’ll pray for you” directly after a far-fetched accusation, didn’t strike me as sincere. I’ve been in many a debate with Christians who responded to my points with, “Well, I’ll be praying that God changes your mind.” It seems like a manipulative cheap shot rather than something to be appreciated.
Janette, you are wrong, my prayers are sincere and my comment was not meant as a “manipulative cheap shot”. As I posted earlier at 4:08pm 7/31, I am praying for God to open Xalisae’s and Jyw’s eyes. You are accusing me of jumping to conclusions which I have asked Xalisae to forgive me for, but you are doing the same about my motives in what I said about praying for her.
And you needn’t ask again. I appreciate the support, and even the compassionate dissent. I understand the argument became more heated than either of us anticipated, and I’m prone to losing my temper just like every other human on Earth, if not a bit moreso. So, consider it done, and please accept my apology in kind.
We’re all in the same fight here, friends, and although we come from varied backgrounds, experiences, and philosophies, it doesn’t mean we can’t unite for what is important. We must never lose sight of what is truly important here: there are thousands of human lives being cut short daily. Let us stop this senseless legal killing.
Sigh. Look…
Your comment seemed obnoxious. You admitted that you came across too harshly and you apologized. I took the comment at face value and found the placement of your statement about praying for her to seem condescending, and I sympathized with her when she said she lost it in her responding comment. I didn’t call your specific comment a manipulative cheap shot, but was referencing my past experiences and the general impression I get from those sorts of situations. I don’t know or care anything about your motives, I was giving my impression of the comment. Notice how I used the phrases “didn’t strike me as” and “it seems like” – we’re talking about perception here. And you admitted that your comment may have came across in a different way than you intended, so…what’s the problem?
Prolifer,
Comments such as “I’ll pray for you” in such cases as these indicate an assumed state of superiority, whether or not it is intended. Should you desire to pray for a conversion of heart for Xalisae, I would suggest doing so without broadcasting it, as doing such is a failing brought on by pride.
As a devout Catholic, who prays for many people (not the least, myself!), I can honestly say that I have found myself hurt and offended by the superior attitude displayed by those who used “I’ll pray for you” in the context of, ‘I know better than you and I’ll pray that God makes you think the way that I do.’
And for the record, I honestly believe that sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin. I honestly believe that the use of contraceptives is a mortal sin. I honestly believe that it is folly to attempt to extricate sex from reproduction by destroying, fooling, or otherwise manipulating one’s body. So in the sense of the basic argument, I am very much on your side Prolifer. I simply am trying to put it into perspective of how “I’ll pray for you” sounds.
It is also very important to remember that such a statement made online without the aid of vocal tone and body language is highly combustible.
JYW,
You’ve got it twisted again. If you don’t find Jesus, something very, very bad will happen to you. And it will happen to you for a very, very long time. A judgment not created for you, but for satan and his demons, will be yours for eternity.
Every one of us will be judged for how we live our lives. God has blessed each of us with unique gifts and talents. We’ve also inherited a sinful nature from our father Adam who was the first among us to exercise his right to choose and disobey God.
You see God is very Pro Choice. He will absolutely honor your right to choose to ignore the wrongs you’ve done to others, the times you’ve broken His Laws, the times you’ve hurt people with your words, the times you’ve blasphemed His name. He will allow you to ignore the sacrifice that Jesus made for you, enduring the torture and bloody death of the Cross, paying the price for both your and my sins.
He will let you live your life anyway you choose. But He loves mankind, including you JYW, so much, that He doesn’t stop with the sacrifice of His Son. He calls through His Church for all men and women everywhere to repent and be saved. And He uses trials and tribulations in this life to humble us when we get off track, when there is sin in our lives that could threaten our eternal destiny.
I don’t wish you any harm JYW. My hope is that you will fall on your knees, ask God to forgive you, let Him cleanse your heart and conscience by touching you by His Spirit, give you a fresh revelation of His Love for you, and welcome you (back?) into His Family. And if you don’t, I pray that God uses every means necessary, including circumstances and situations in this life, to humble your heart that you might be saved from the wrath to come.
I pray the same thing for myself. I don’t want to go to Hell.
And if you doubt that there is a coming Judgment, Just You Wait.
xalisae, I’ve found GYNs to be either really happy to work with a patient and determine what’s best for her, or entirely by the book and unwilling to do so. Fortunately, I have one of the former, though the latter seem to be more common. I’ve considered getting my tubes tied, but ended up with IUD instead, which is almost as effective and honestly entirely worth it. I’m incredibly, incredibly fond of it.
Janette, I agree: birth control is the responsible thing to do for anyone who doesn’t want pregnancy immediately. Unfortunately, people simply aren’t taught birth control. Doing so, I believe would be beneficial to everyone, and should be a priority. Personally, I think schools should teach a standardized, secular curriculum. It’s up to the parents to put whatever kind of religious bent to that information that they want.
Janette, I agree: birth control is the responsible thing to do for anyone who doesn’t want pregnancy immediately. Unfortunately, people simply aren’t taught birth control. Doing so, I believe would be beneficial to everyone, and should be a priority. Personally, I think schools should teach a standardized, secular curriculum. It’s up to the parents to put whatever kind of religious bent to that information that they want.
Posted by: Human Abstract at August 2, 2009 12:29 PM
Seeing as how there is already so much controversy surrounding sex ed, asking the parents to put their own personal spin on a sex ed curriculum, when they are often unaware of what they school is even teaching, perpetuates the tug o’ war between parents of various mindsets and the school system. I’m not implying that you want the schools to create programs regardless of parents’ wishes, I know that’s not what you meant…I just think a standardized, secular curriculum may create a perception of having to do damage control if the school’s teaching contradicts the parent’s wishes, instead of upfront parental involvement. The main cause of kids making destructive decisions is lack of parental guidance. So I think a better formula would be a curriculum that is informative and open with parents and encourages them to be involved in their teenagers lives. The following is my opinion of the ideal sex ed program:
I do not mind the schools teaching sexual reproduction from a purely biological perspective. I do not mind if that includes talking about contraception, along with accurate statistics about success vs. failure rates among various demographics and including NFP, in the context of medical science. I would insist that lessons on fetal development be included. I would also insist that all parents receive a detailed copy of the curriculum, and that counselors (with obtained or waived permission of parents) be made available to students who wish to discuss personally relevant issues. I would also allow parents to let their students opt out of the program or certain portions of it, if they wish to use their own instructional methods.
In summary, objective, scientific information + parental involvement + available one-on-one counseling = the ideal. I really do think there’s some common ground between the PC and PL camps, and one that is often understated is increased parental involvement.
Xalisae: “Abstained from sex until college…I kinda knew something was wrong when I finally got there and all my dormmates couldn’t believe I was a virgin…”
Something was wrong with the fact that you were still a virgin? I’m trying to understand where that comment came from. Are you saying it is abnormal or wrong to remain a virgin until marriage?
Thank you, Janet. :)
Here’s an interesting survey of college students’ virginity:
(copy & paste into browser but remove quotation marks before you hit enter)
http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=18
Percentages of freshmen that were virgins may be higher than you’d think, quite a drop though through the college years.
Kel, I think X was saying that she knew something was wrong with her dorm-mates’ views on sex (and, by extension, the views of many teens) when none of them could believe that she was a virgin. I do think that too many teens place too much emphasis on sex — or, rather, on losing your virginity. Obviously not all of them; I knew more than a few people, girls and boys, who waited until the later parts of college, or beyond.
I waited until I was coming up on 23, myself. I don’t remember my friends being all that shocked by it, but I’ve always been pretty private about details like that, excluding very close friends — and all my close friends had known for years that I was an alleged late bloomer in tons of physical and emotional ways, so it was no shock to them. I dated a few guys before I met Mr. Alexandra — though none of them were ever official boyfriends — and I obviously told them that I was a virgin and that that fact was unlikely to change anytime soon. None of them called things off with me over it. Actually come to think of it, in all of those situations I was the one who called things off, for various reasons.
I don’t know what time zone you’re in Jyw but you’ve got to check out:
http://www.video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-750107269338052182
I’m on Eastern Time and will check back in morning.
Good night.
Kel, I think X was saying that she knew something was wrong with her dorm-mates’ views on sex (and, by extension, the views of many teens) when none of them could believe that she was a virgin.
Bingo, Alexandra. None of them were virgins, and they couldn’t believe that I was, because to them, in all other respects, I guess I appeared “normal” enough, but wasn’t like them in that one way. I just kinda rolled my eyes at them and couldn’t believe that none of them except one of the boys was a virgin.
No need for quotation marks when posting a link.
Just http:// and it should work. :)
Oh and JYW is a banned commenter. Her comments are removed.
Ok, thanks Carla!
By the way, during last weeks drought I was Jonesin’ for some classic JillStanek.com content, browsed the archived conversion stories and saw your testimony.
Way cool.
Way.
God is so good!
Kel, I think X was saying that she knew something was wrong with her dorm-mates’ views on sex (and, by extension, the views of many teens) when none of them could believe that she was a virgin.
Bingo, Alexandra. None of them were virgins, and they couldn’t believe that I was, because to them, in all other respects, I guess I appeared “normal” enough, but wasn’t like them in that one way. I just kinda rolled my eyes at them and couldn’t believe that none of them except one of the boys was a virgin.
Posted by: xalisae at August 3, 2009 12:08 AM
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Ok, thanks for the clarification.
Amen, Ed. Thanks for watching!! :)
Xalisae thanks for accepting my apology, you are a gracious, forgiving person (not everyone is) but I am a big girl and I can handle that. I am smiling because you are indeed a “cool” person like Ed said, I can understand why you are liked and I wish you all the very best. I will keep praying for you, others on this blog and for myself as well. I really appreciate what you said we have a real enemy to fight, the murder of innocent unborn babies, not each other.
I found some neat statistics to share regarding teens from a book “America’s Youth:Measuring the Risk” compiled by The Institute for Youth Development, 2002
Teens who reported a low level of satisfaction with their relationship with their mother were more than twice as likely as those highly satisfied with their relationship to be having sexual intercourse.
Family characteristics that were associated with girls having a later onset of sexual intercourse included: families reperted to be more experssive, having a moral-religious emphasis and direct parental monitoring of their daughter’s behavior. Got to go will share a few more stats later. Take care.
Thank you so much, L! I can definitely appreciate how firey you can get. I think that’s a good thing. ;)
Because I know all too well my own myriad flaws, I try to constantly remind myself to forgive as much as reasonably possible because I need to be forgiven quite often myself.
And my real life name starts with L, so we L’s should stick together, right? :P
Teens who reported a low level of satisfaction with their relationship with their mother were more than twice as likely as those highly satisfied with their relationship to be having sexual intercourse.
Interesting. Perhaps these mothers are not setting a proper example in their bedroom habbits? My youngest sister told me of a kid in her class who was one of the most sexually active in the school at one point. He was a young gay boy who had a very unhappy family life. His mother was absurdly promiscuous and his father was abusive. She said that he left home and was adopted by an older gay couple who had been together for quite some time, and that after that happened, his life straightened up considerably. He started caring about his grades because he didn’t want his new parents to be disappointed with him, they set boundaries about when he could go out and with whom, and the whole arrangement just ended up being so much better for the boy than his old family, and he was so much happier after he had stopped throwing himself at anyone who would take him. As I said before, these kids need guidance, and they’re not getting it from their parents. Their homes are no longer functioning.
“…direct parental monitoring of their daughter’s behavior.”
I can vouch for that one, much to my chagrin. But I’m glad my parents went too strict rather than not strict enough. It made me more angsty, but I don’t like the alternative.
Xalisae, here are more statistics from “America’s Youth:Measuring the Risk” compiled from The Institute for Youth Development:
The majority of teens say they are virgins, 3/4ths of teens consider it a ‘good thing to make a conscious decision not to have sex until later”. 1 in 2 teens say they have been in a situation when they could have had sex with someone they liked but decided not to”. When asked “Do you think it’s embarrassing for teens to admit they are virgins?-answering NO were 85% of all teens, over 90% girls and over 80% Boys (The Cautious Generation? Teens Tell Us About Sex, Virginity, and “The Talk” The National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, Washington, DC April 27, 2000). The research says 93% of teens want a strong abstinence message.
The influences on teen’s sexual decision-making when teens were asked “which is most influential”- parents (38.3%), Friends (31.7%), religious organization (9.1%), brothers and sisters (7.4%), teachers and sex educators (6.8%) and the media (3.6%). Parents should stop RENIGGING on their responsibility, we are the key and should not expect our churches, teen’s teachers, PP or anybody else to do this for us. Only parents can teach our kids how valuable they are, what true love really is about, teach our morals and values, balance love and limits and if you have personal faith “practice what you preach”. See my post 2nd paragraph July 29th, 9:36pm about this.
List of positive protective factors that influence adolescent sexual activity:
Parent/Family connectedness
Perceived parental disapproval of adolescent sex
Perceived parent disapproval of adolescent contraception
Religious identity
Pledge of virginity
Grade point average
Appears “younger than most”
School connectedness
Average daily attendance
Parochial school
Negative risk factors
Recent family suicide attempts/completions
Same-sex attraction
Perceived risk of untimely death
Paid work over 20 hours a week
Appears “older than most”
I know some may not want to consider same-sex risky behavior but the FDA gives excellent answers on their website as to why they will NOT accept blood donations from men who have sex with men, they have done extensive research. I am not going to argue with anyone about this but if you are interested look at the link it is: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/BloodBloodProducts/QuestionsaboutBlood/ucm108186.htm
Your parents sound like how I was with my kids Xalisae, they loved you so much they wanted to protect you. You were blessed to have them.
Excellent website http://www.4parents.gov
Moderator is there a problem with my post?
Prolifer L,
I remember having the same thoughts, “Was it something I said?”
I guess the new website routes any post with a link in it to a spam folder. The mods have to dig them out and post them manually. That’s why I have been putting quotation marks around my links so that the filter doesn’t recognize them as links.
There may be another way that we can post links but if there is, I’m not aware of it.
One link in a comment will usually publish. More than one goes to spam.
Thanks for letting me know Carla I will try to remember this in the future.