New Stanek column, “Vaccines made with fetal cells causing autism?”
EPA researchers publishing a study in the Feb. 16 issue of Environmental Science & Technology were “surprise[ed]” to find a worldwide jump in the incidence of autism beginning in 1988….
The Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Institute actually found 3 “change points” in autism trends – 1981, 1988 and 1995….
All those bumps followed the introduction of vaccines containing aborted human fetal cells….
The EPA study relied on previous studies to deny a link between autism and vaccines whatsoever. But there is a new wrinkle. NaturalNews.com reported April 12:
One of the central figures in the CDC’s claims about vaccine safety is reported to be under investigation by Danish police after almost $2 million turned up missing that was supposed to have been spent on research….
Liberals, who believe there is a link between autism and mercury in vaccines, called for an investigation:
“Questions about Thorsen’s scientific integrity may finally force CDC to rethink the vaccine protocols since most of the other key pro-vaccine studies cited by CDC rely on the findings of Thorsen’s research group,” Robert F. Kennedy Jr. wrote on the Huffington Post. “The validity of all these studies is now in question.”
It would be ironic if the liberal demand for additional research helped lead to a confirmed link between autism and vaccines containing aborted fetal cells….
Meanwhile, pro-aborts lambasted a blog post I wrote on the questionable link between autism and vaccines containing fetal cells. Amanda Marcotte at Pandagon blogged:
[A]nti-choicers are running with a bull—t story that vaccines are made with aborted fetuses, and that’s what causes autism. This article and the one it banks off of from Jill Stanek are both amazing examples of what can be produced when a person has no respect for their audience’s intelligence or the truth.
Marcotte began by disputing that the aforementioned vaccines are made from aborted fetal cells….
So let’s clear up that they are….
Continue reading my column today, “Vaccines made with fetal cells causing autism?” at WorldNetDaily.com.
[Marcotte photo via Seal Press]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Dear Jill,
Merck started making their polio vaccine from foetal cells in the early 1960s and other vaccines also included them before 1988.
Most of us who have been involved in this movement have seen regressive autism after vaccines since the 1950’s and none of them had foetal cells in them. Even today, we see regressive autism in children who have had vaccines which do not have any foetal cells in them.
When the anti-vaccine movement swings from one branch to another, grasping at one straw, dropping it, and then picking up another one, is it any wonder that Dr Paul Offit considers them to be indulging in pseudo-science?
People who speculate on this, are doing themselves and the rest of us responsible writers not good at all.
Cheers.
Hilary,
The polio vaccine of which you speak was introduced in the UK and other European countries beginning in 1979, right at the time the first autism rise became apparent.
In the US that polio vaccine was approved but never sold. The US only began using it later in a combination vaccine. Interestingly oral polio vaccines using aborted fetal cells don’t seem to be associated with a subsequent rise in autism. Residual DNA wouldn’t cross the digestive tract.
As you can see, the situation is very complicated, and each country has to be investigated.
Thanks.
Jill,
You’ve got me stymied here. I detest the use of cell lines from aborted fetuses for any use at all, and I love the article. However, a mechanistic problem that I have with the timelines as presented is this:
Prior to 1990, the diagnosis of autism wasn’t usually made until a child was around 7 years old. Thus, we would see a lag of about 7-8 years from the introduction of the vaccine in question until the rise in diagnoses in the earlier days.
A further complicating factor is that prior to 1990, most states had very uneven laws regarding mandatory vaccination. It’s hard to see where the connections could be made in that environment, where the cases came from regarding vaccinations.
Still, we have been lied to by the National Cancer Institute regarding the link between abortion and breast cancer. We have been lied to about condom efficacy by CDC. So now we have a huge vaccine industry and a rise in autism to frightening levels, from 1:10,000 children a generation ago to 1:140 today, my son included.
It’s pure BS to suggest we are better at diagnosing it today. These children present with starkly frightening symptoms that are not easily missed. A two-order of magnitude jump in two decades is a serious, serious, serious problem.
The multi-valent shots, seven diseases in one visit at two months of age may well be behind some of this, as it produces a tidal wave of chemicals from the white blood cells that go to the brain to do things like induce malaise and fever. Swamping such an immature brain like that borders on criminal. This may explain the mitochondrial DNA defects being discovered in autistic children.
If some of the vaccines are contaminated with cellular debris, who’s to say…
Great article Jill. You’ve managed to do what great scientists are supposed to do:
Shed light on suspicions, promote debate and further inquiry. Too bad if the pro-aborts can’t handle it.
I’m in a little over my head here, so I apologize for the stupid question. I understand that the original vaccines were developed using DNA from intentionally aborted fetuses. Are additional fetal cells used in the mass production of the vaccine? How many aborted fetuses are involved here – the original two or more? (Not that “only” two lives is unimportant). Again, I just want to understand. Thanks.
Here it is, straight from Merck’s web site:
Merck Vaccines, M-M-R II
http://www.merck.com/product/vaccines/home.html
Patient Product Information
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf
Reference Footnote #1 on Page 10
(referred to from Paragraph 2 on Page 1)
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf#page=10
Hi Jill and Gerard,
We have also seen an increase in the routine use of ultrasound. I am convinced this could well be a factor.
Also, for how many years were children misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all? “Quirky” “loner” “nerdy” problems with social interactions could all well have been undiagnosed autism.
I don’t rule out the vaccines certainly, I just think there are so many factors its hard to draw much of any conclusion.
A fascinating study in autistic savants was shown on I believe, TLC TV. It was a set of identical autistic savant twins in their 50’s with the exact same abilities to give a day to any date going back hundreds of years and with an incredible memory for music. They shared an obsession with Dick Clark, and could tell you what suit the man wore on what day. As children they were diagnosed as “retarded”. Also, special education was certainly not what it is today so whatever potential these women was never realized.
They do function at a 6th grade level however even without special schooling so I question how “retarded” they really are.
This would certainly suggest a genetic factor.
The more answers we have the more questions we have to ask.
Gerard Nadal at April 28, 2010 5:08 AM
“Swamping such an immature brain like that borders on criminal.”
I totally agree. Babies need to be protected from getting several shots at once. I think that it’s patently obvious that it’s too much. Would you want to get seven shots at once? I wouldn’t! If a person researches how many vaccines were administered to children when he/she was a child, you’d be surprised how many more vaccines babies/toddlers are given these days. These days, I think that parents can work with doctors to at least stagger the administration of the vaccines. It’s certainly worth considering.
Fifteen years ago, my family pediatrician recommended staggering vaccinations, in the same way that a parent introduces new foods to their babies, one at a time, so they can identify allergies should they arise. It only makes sense to do it that way.
This company uses fetal cells in the beauty products. This is horrific.
http://www.neocutis.com/categories.php?catid=91
Get the word out and boycott them.
This web site has an article directly related to this post. It is chilling to think of the demonic forces that are now being released against the unborn.
Please read:
http://parablesblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/hells-pharmacy.html
Hi folks,
I really do think this whole area should be revisited and a newer/far-better strategy than vaccination be employed. Our almost total reliance on vaccination to improve immune function is highly problematic.
Newborns have no immunity at all because an active immune system would reject their own womb as being ‘foreign’ tissue. Colostrum initiates several processes, immunity is one of them. This type of formation is without any kind of vaccine, but it can be improved to incorporate polio, etc. This kind of immunity is multidimensional and attacks problem microbes from many standpoints eg. many microbes have a very narrow temperature range of survival.. So once found, a troubling microbe will often be killed by an immune-induced fever.
There are several things we can do to greatly lessen our reliance on this questionable practice (vaccination). A) promote the use of colostrum/first breast-milk ; b) improve the disease-fighting capacities of colostrum. [Colostrum’s effects are often cross-species AND can be taken by folks at any age and even those with milk intolerance.]
[For my friends who have seen my posts on a zinc-deficiency induced depression(maternal) linked to human-fetal development, should realize that zinc usage is also critical to proper immune function. Please note, the vast increase in zits during puberty. There are many mood swings here even without the physical burdens of teen-pregnancy (with periods of high-zinc-use for the developing baby.]
There are of course simple strategies to overcome almost all bacterial/fungal assaults. Try some oil-pulling (find on Internet). To the oil add 2-3 drops of wild oregano or clove, or thyme.
Who funds that idiot loud mouth Marcotte?
I remember reading of a study discussing the correlation between rising cancer rates and vaccines.
I chose to have my children vaccinated but if I had to do it over again I would pass on vaccination.
Here are some excellent links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GbiMvc0xZs
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/aborted_fetus_vaccines.htm
http://poisonevercure.150m.com/cover.htm
http://www.cogforlife.org/
Hi All,
I’d like to respond to the general concern about vaccines and autism here on this thread and throughout society, and I would like to do so in my capacity as a medical microbiologist.
As I’ve said, I’m the father of a son with regressive autism. He was diagnosed at University of Michigan’s Autism Center using the gold-standard tools the ADI and ADOS developed by the director of the center, Dr. Catherine Lord. I offer this as evidence that he was not mislabeled. He was seen by the leading authority in the field.
Was it the MMR? No. Joseph’s autism began setting in at 14-15 months. Because Regina was pregnant at that time when he should have been vaccinated, we didn’t vaccinate until he was 23 months. By then, he was in very bad shape.
While one case does not make an epidemiological trend, it is certain that in this case the MMR was not the culprit.
Remember that this whole association with the MMR started with a paper published by lead author Dr. Andrew Wakefield in the British Journal, Lancet. Since then, Wakefield has come under fire for ethical lapses suffusing the paper ad his methodology. Finally, even the data were utterly discredited and in Jan./Feb. of this year the Lancet took the very rare step of actually withdrawing the paper in its entirety.
To be honest, I need to fully investigate many of the links offered regarding aborted fetal cell vaccines and even vaccines cultured in non-aborted fetal cells. To be equally honest, I’ve read quite a bit about vaccines in recent years that I’m not certain relates to life as we know it.
I have a paper that I’m submitting to Steven Ertelt at LifeNews.com on this matter and will let folks know when it’s published, rather than chew up this thread.
However, I’ve come to believe that it’s simply insane to give a baby 7 diseases in one office visit. I’ve spoken with many pediatricians who have begun to stagger the shots.
Beyond that, I implore those readers who refuse to vaccinate their children to visit a cemetery that dates back to the late 1800’s. Walk the rows of stones and take note of how many children died before the age of 6, then note the year. What you’ll find is that over 90% of children buried there died before 1948. There are two explanations.
1. Penicillin became commercially available around 1948 when it could be made in large quantity. During World War II it was so scarce that it was only used for soldiers on the battlefield, and even then it was purified out of their urine and reused. It was called the miracle drug for good reason.
2. Vaccines began hitting the market throughout the 1950’s and 1960’s, augmenting the life-saving actions of antibiotics.
With much of the entire populace immunized we have created what is called “herd immunity”. So many members of society are immune to diseases that the few uninoculated children are surrounded by immune members and derive a benefit from their immunity, i.e. there is no one else around getting sick and passing on disease.
All that is changing now, thanks to 2 major factors:
1. Large numbers of parents are not immunizing their children against dread diseases.
2. We have an ever-swelling populace of illegal immirants flooding in from third world countries who are not immunized and actually carrying disease.
Many of these diseases cause meningitis, blindness, deafness, paralysis and death. Autism pales in comparison to these sequellae. As more and more parents refuse to immunize, as more and more bacteria become resistant to the few antibiotics left that are effective against them, we will see a return to the sad stones marking lives cut down before they got off the launch pad.
Only this time we’ll have ourselves to blame.
Think about it.
I have no problem with vaccines, just the ones made from fetal cells.
It’s very, very creepy.
Pointing out that Marcotte is childless on WorldNetDaily.com was so blatantly silly and offensive. What was your point? That only mothers can understand the reasoning and thoughts behind the anti-abortion movement? That only mothers can love a child enough to do anything to protect it? That is quite a stunted way of thinking. Many, many mothers are actually pro-choice and many, many women without children are anti-abortion. It was a low comment and added a cheap, tawdry air to your argument at the end of the article.
By the way…. check out the drudgereport.com and their article on the baby boy who lived two days after being aborted, I believe in Italy. The hospital priest went to pray on him and realized he was alive. He was given emergency medical care, but died.
Jill,
Your article sparked a memory of a (perhaps) History channel show about Mad Cow disease …
http://www.mad-cow.org/
and its human counterpart…
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/02/29/2176338.htm
Cows and sheep (natural vegetarians) go ‘mad’ when fed leftover body parts, including brains, from their departed bovine and ovine fellows.
Humans can develop this disease if they consume diseased beef.
Now it seems that autism is on the rise after vaccines made with aborted human fetal cells are injected in human beings. If there is a connection, and facts seem to point to this, perhaps autism is a disease caused along similar lines.
It appears an Intelligent Designer is telling us not to eat each other.
ANON, first, no anonymous posts allowed.
Second, I thought it was important to point out Amanda has no children because I think it plays a part in her cavalier treatment of this issue. She has not developed the maternal instinct to protect her children.
Furthermore, I now know Amanda Marcotte is disingenuous. I previously gave her the benefit of the doubt of being misguided but authentic. She is not. She is refusing to retract her utterly false post on this matter (http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/anti_vaxxers_and_anti_choicers_a_match_made_in_heaven/), purposefully misleading her audience on the subject of aborted fetal cells in certain childhood vaccines.
Amanda and I traded Twitter posts yesterday. She is fully aware of the facts – or at the very least has access to objective sources on the facts, such as Salon and Wikipedia – but is ignoring them.
“As more and more parents refuse to immunize, as more and more bacteria become resistant to the few antibiotics left that are effective against them, we will see a return to the sad stones marking lives cut down before they got off the launch pad.
Only this time we’ll have ourselves to blame.
Think about it.”
Perhaps, such is misinformation coming from orthodox medicine’s myopic approach. I’ve read your logic and appeal, Gerry. It says we have no other option but to fear … ‘shuddup and fear’. TRULY FOOLISH, SOUNDS VERY MUCH LIKE THE SCARE TACTICS USED TO GET PEOPLE TO GET THEIR FLU-SHOT. [Even Christian’s who are taught not to fear … except the next contagion are told not to shake hands.]
I really do not enjoy taking-you-on Gerry, but the ignorance of everyday meaures to combat microbes is enormous. Perhaps penecillin was a great lifesaver, but I’ll stack up wild oregano essential oil anytime as the best antibiotic there is. And unlike our orthodox antibiotics, microbes never build an immunity to it.
Many adults are achieving remarkable immune protection from essential oils. Its time for some schooling on therapeutics non-drugs.
THINK ABOUT IT!
Perhaps orthodox medicine got its aura of saintly miracle-cures from vaccines. It is time for this to end.
I’ve also wondered why something so obviously silly as abortion has persisted so long Is it perhaps because it is doctor-protected ?(Hey, all those smart people can’t be wrong, eh?)
Regarding the threads posted here, please use caution…it is not definitively proved yet about the aborted fetal vaccines and autism. Dr Deisher at SCPI is a well known and highly accredited adult stem cell scientist who took on this project last year when the facts surrounding these vaccines and autism began to surface. The recent EPA study only confirmed the dates that Dr Deisher had already seen in her own study. Those dates coincide with the dates aborted fetal vaccines were either:
A) first introduced to the market
B) second dose of the vaccines was required
C) states began mandating the vaccines
Before MMR was licensed in 1977, we had moral versions. At that time, autism was at the rate of 1 in 10,000. Today it is 1 in 150. One can draw a conclusion fairly quickly – but in order to be credible it must be proven. SCPI is working on that.
I do not want to see Dr Deisher’s hard work tarnished in any way as it is still incomplete and involves much more than what is being said in the blogs. Recombination of aborted fetal DNA with an infant’s developing brain cells is something that naturally occurs with these vaccines in a scientific process known as homologous recombination. Human DNA is absorbed, whereas animal DNA from other vaccines is rejected by the body.
The affect of that fetal DNA depends on many factors in the baby’s own development – which is why not all children who are vaccinated become autistic. It also depends on how much DNA the baby is receiving and I can tell you that in the studies SCPI has done on the MMR vaccine, the DNA levels are all over the map! Way high in some batches of vaccines, much lower in others.
I highly encourage folks to read Dr Deisher’s newsletters, all of which are published on our website at http://www.cogforlife.org/avm.htm and scroll to the bottom for the links to all 3 newsletters.
God bless you always,
Debi Vinnedge
Children of God for Life
John McDonell,
If you want to take me on in a debate, that’s fine. Do so respectfully and intellectually honestly. Don’t put words in my mouth, such as my telling people to shut up. I’ve never done so before, but I will at the end of this comment for you as a special exception.
Should people be afraid? The grave markers of years gone by, of which I spoke, are sad reminders of life before antibiotics and vaccines. If your essential oils are such a hit, then I suggest that you get some financial backing and get lab tests and clinical trials going.
For all of people’s fears of vaccines, I don’t know of too many people who are willing to trust oregano oil in the face of life-threatening microbial infections. Currently it costs close to a billion dollars to get a new antibiotic from discovery of the chemical in the lab through clinical trials and to the pharmacist’s shelf. You could become a very wealthy man IF your oils live up to their promise.
I regard this statement of yours to be as chauvanistically arrogant as it is ignorant:
“Perhaps orthodox medicine got its aura of saintly miracle-cures from vaccines. It is time for this to end.”
Really?
While imperfect, let me clue you in to a few numbers that stand behind medicine’s well-deserved reputation. Here are the world population numbers every decade beginning in 1950. Note that in 1950 the world population was the highest it had ever been.
1950 2.5 Billion
1960 3.0 Billion
1970 3.7 Billion
1980 4.5 Billion
1990 5.3 Billion
2000 6.0 Billion
2010 6.8 Billion
It wasn’t oregano oil that caused the world population to nearly triple in 60 years, and that against an aggressive contraception campaign during much of that time. It was vaccines and antibiotics.
Sorry John, but there is a well-deserved place for the field of microbiology with our anti-microbial susceptibility protocols. There is a well-deserved place for western medicine’s use of the scientific method in double-blind clinical trials of novel compounds.
They have put more than one snake-oil salesman to flight.
The truth here is that there are few if any people alive who can recall the days before antibiotics and vaccines. It was not at all uncommon for women to have 13 children and have only five or six live to reproductive age.
You can play the snake-oil carnival barker all you want. However, we have a proven method for testing your claims.
Put up or shut up.
Professor, nice to see us in 100% agreement on an issue.
Hi Hal,
I thought I felt a little ground tremor ;-)
But it is nice.
All the Best!
As more and more parents refuse to immunize, as more and more bacteria become resistant to the few antibiotics left that are effective against them, we will see a return to the sad stones marking lives cut down before they got off the launch pad.
Only this time we’ll have ourselves to blame.
————————————————
1) Antibiotics do not become less useful and bacteria do not become more resistant to them just because some people choose to use oregano oil rather than antibiotics. Would I? No… but let’s not try to blame the lack of usage of antibiotics for the rise in antibiotic resistant bacteria.
It is, rather, the indiscriminate use of antibiotics that has led to antibiotic resistant bacteria. Doctors who wrote prescriptions for antibiotics for things that they couldn’t possibly treat, such as viruses. Parents who insisted that the doctor do something and didn’t feel like their child had been “treated properly” unless they got a prescription for something (no matter how inappropriate.)
The biggest culprit is lack of patient education… as a nurse I make sure that I drive home the point to any parent receiving a scrip for an antibiotic for their child… “Your child must finish ALL of this medicine. Do NOT stop giving your child the medicine just because he or she seems to feel better. Your child will feel better long before the antibiotic has killed 100% of the bacteria and if you stop giving your child this medicine and any of the bacteria remains in his or her system, it will grow back, and it has a strong potential for now not responding to this antibiotic.”
Yup… that’s the main reason for the rise in antibiotic resistant bacteria…. patients who stop taking the antibiotic part of the way through the course of treatment.
To insinuate that people who turn to alternative treatments (no matter what one’s opinion of the efficacy of that alternative may be) are responsible for the rise in antibiotic resistant bacteria smacks of a smear. Bacteria do not become resistant to antibiotics they are not exposed to.
I expected better from you, Gerard. Just because you think someone is being a kook shouldn’t prompt you to respond in this way.
2)If the medical community wants parents to trust them, they need to stop with the blanket statements about all vaccines being harmless for all children. There isn’t a substance on the planet that is harmless for ALL children. There are kids who are allergic to Tylenol for heaven’s sake!
It is the blatant, “We know better than you, you mere parents” attitude so prevalent in doctors, even pediatricians, today… the insisting that vaccines are never the cause of anything bad…. when evidence to the contrary exists… that makes parents doubt EVERYTHING about vaccination that the medical establishment tells them. Until doctors are willing to be real and own up to the fact that there are risks as well as benefits, parents will continue to turn away. This is a shame on many levels, but it is the medical community’s fault… not the parents.
Elisabeth,
Most of my work in grad school revolved around the molecular mechanisms behind antibiotic resistance. You are correct and you are incorrect in what you say here.
You are correct in stating that incomplete duration of therapy leads to the emergence of resistance. Typically this is a combination of two factors.
1. Darwinian selection against the more susceptible strains of the bacterium early in the infection, leaving the more resistant strains to grow if therapy is discontinued prematurely.
2. The release of suppressive effect on moderately susceptible organisms before the immune system has produced sufficient IgM and IgG.
It may come as surprise to you, but yes, bacteria do become resistant to antibiotics. This is accomplished through the following three mechanisms, and the three are amplified by an increased number of resistant organisms from the mechanism stated above.
1. Transformation. This is the process whereby DNA from a dead cell containing antibiotic resistance genes happens to be floating by a cell and is taken up by the cell and incorporated into the cell’s chromosome through homologous recombination.
2. Transduction. This is when a virus that attacks bacteria gets replicated within a bacterium and inadvertantly gets packaged with host DNA containing antibiotic resistance genes instead of viral nucleic acid. When that virus is released it goes to another cell and injects its contents, the antibiotic resistance genes which recombine through homologous recombination.
3. Conjugation. We call this bacterial ‘sex’, as one bacterium extends a sex pilus to another bacterium. Once the two are joined, the cell with the pilus sends into the other cell a small circular piece of DNA called a fertility plasmid. This piece of DNA contains the genes necessary for making a sex pilus AND antibiotic resistance genes. This has the effect of making a hitherto tame cell not only antibiotic resistant, but capable of spreading that genetic mechanism of resistance.
(Google any of these terms followed by the word ‘animation’ to see animations of how this happens)
All of that in the absence of antibiotics.
Now, as inappropriate dispensing and use of antibiotics increases the pool of organisms that have been selected for resistance in a Darwinian fashion, it increases the number of organisms that spread that resistance, not only to members of the same species, but different species as well.
So, you see that bacteria DO become resistant to antibiotics that they are not exposed to. It’s frightening.
Further, the use of household cleaning products that are billed as “antibacterial”, containing the chemical triclosan act as antibiotics on the bacteria they are exposed to, selecting strains in a Darwinian fashion. These then turn out to be cross-resistant to antibiotics. People using triclosan-containing products turn their homes into breeding grounds for antibiotic resistance.
As for suggesting that people who use alternative treatments are responsible for antibiotic resistance, I have said no such thing. Nor have I suggested that parsimonious use of antibiotics leads to resistance. You misread both the words and the intent.
As for John, I don’t think him a kook. I see him as being ignorant of how antibiotics and vaccines have changed the face of the planet. I see his essential oils as benefitting from anecdotal evidence and not having been proven by any objective standard of rigorous scrutiny.
It’s easy to pick on FDA and NIH because many of their wounds are self-inflicted. But the rational response is not to throw the baby out with the bath water, not to return to carnival barking for Doc John’s essential oils. Go back and read the annals of medicine in the 19th century here in America. John represents the direction from whence we have come, and come a long, long way.
I don’t regard John as crazy. I regard him as being dangerous in his ignorance. Perhaps his essential oils may have potent antimicrobial effects. But do they damage human DNA or proteins? Do they induce mitochondrial disease? How are they excreted from the body? As oils, they are fat-soluble. Do they accumulate to toxic levels in fat? Do they damage the liver or kidneys?
That’s why we do animal testing of novel compounds before we ever proceed to FDA human clinical trials Phase I, II, III. That’s why the process is so arduous and expensive.
Lots of compounds work great in the Petri dish only to have disastrous and unforseen consequences in an animal model. Even when they work in rats and mice, many compounds wreak havoc in humans.
John sneers at this process Elisabeth. But I would sooner entrust my family to the current process, than Doc John barking “Step right up!” I challenged him with put up or shut up. That’s what we do in medicine. That’s why we live in the age of miracles and wonders.
“Amanda and I traded Twitter posts yesterday. She is fully aware of the facts – or at the very least has access to objective sources on the facts, such as Salon and Wikipedia – but is ignoring them.”
Amanda Marcotte is an agent of the devil, do not trust her.
Hi Gerry,
I’m trying as are you. Sorry, I was not nice, but I had to get your affention. I am dying a slow death …. genetic disease. I have so little knowledge and time …
To get away from orthodox medical protocols is s hard task. Enter Dr. Jean Valnet. He was a WW ll French surgeon faced with the wartime shortages of antibiotics. He found that many plants via some of their essential oils carry incredibly stromg antibiotic and anti-fungal properties. He also found that these compounds also exhibited powerful antiviral properties.
To exploit their properties Valnet realized that it was not important to rely on formula for the use of essential oils. So he developed a system called an aromatogram whereby he would incubate the offending microbe in several petrie dishes. His ‘choice’ of which combination of oils to use, was determined by their potency at attacking the microbe. No guess work here, even if the pathogen was unknown.
I just threw in the wild-oregano oil bit because this remedy was unknown in Valnet’s time … as were eucalyptus and tea tree oils.
What you have written regarding toxicity/other effects may be correct except these oils have been in use therapeutically often for centuries. Some are indeed toxic and must be applied with care.
The reliance on vaccination as the premium method of microbe control may be a bigger than suspected difficulty. Several other alternate protocols may also be tried like ozone therapeutics or, cleansing blood with UV light … on and on. Sorry big bucks does not mean good medicine, nor good law, Hal!
Don’t talk down to me.
First of all, two of your three methods by which bacteria become antibiotic resistant in the “absence” of antibiotics requires that the bacteria be exposed to other bacteria (alive or dead) that have been exposed to antibiotics.
And precisely what percentage of antibiotic resistant bacteria are due to the third method as opposed to the percentage that are caused by overuse or misuse of antibiotics?
In addition, that method would happen regardless of what those who favor alternative treatments do or do not do in their own care.
The beauty is… you get to choose for your family. And John gets to choose for his. Frankly, you seem as ignorant of alternative treatment modalities as John is of standard treatment modalities.
Whether I misread your intent only you can know. As to misreading your words, I assure you that I did not. If you go back and read your original post to John in its entirety, it is clear that you blame parents who do not trust standard medical practices such as vaccination for whatever future outbreaks may occur. You bundled that into a paragraph, the paragraph I quoted, with your sneering comment about the antibiotics. Perhaps you did not see the connection and how your words would be taken, but I assure you, I read carefully. And to dismiss my conclusion that you were arrogant and insulting towards those who have gotten tired of being lied to by the medical community and have therefore simply given up and don’t believe anything we say by simply claiming I misread your words, as well as your intent (which, as I stated, only you can know), is also arrogant and insulting.
Again, I expected better from you. This type of attitude is something I have to overcome in my daily interactions with families. Sneering condescension from the “medical elite” makes MY job on the frontlines much harder.
thank you, Elizabeth … very much. Many decades ago I started a small pro-life group. At that time and today, I believed abortion to be bad medical practice.
Then I read a short blurb about the work of Ob/Gyn of New Zealand, Dr. Patrick Dunn. He plotted mood-swings during pregnancy and found some very interesting things: @80% of all abortions came precisely the same time as the first period of depression. He also noted the severe depression begun in the 3rd trimester and worsening until the ‘glitch’ at birth ,,, natural release of endorphins. He continues: the 3rd depression appears to pick-up exactly where the depression-before-the-‘glitch’ left-off. The depression worsens.
INTERPRETING: No where did Dr. Dunn speculate on the cause(s) of these depressions. I surmise that this final depression, is the famous postpartum depression.
Is abortion a reaction to depression? If so, isn’t any kind of depression a signal for contraindication (standard medical practice)?
Some time later, I read ‘Zinc and Copper in Medicine’ eds. Sarper and Karcioglu (@1983) and found the need for zinc by the growing human paralleled the periods of depression almost exactly. The piece-du-resistance came from reading Jan de Vries on his treatment for depressed patients with multiple sclerosis – zinc.
Overcoming the noted arrogance of orthodox practitioners is very time consuming.
Sorry Elisabeth, but I’m not talking down to you. And yes, I am saying, rather bluntly, that as more and more people eschew vaccination the population of susceptible individuals goes up, while the population of immune individuals goes down. That’s simply a fact.
Another fact is that herd immunity begins to fall apart under such a scenario, the well-founded fears of parents who have been lied to notwithstanding.
And children will fall prey to the ravages of these diseases as a result. One needn’t be a medical professional to see that.
Yes, the escalation of antibiotic resistance is tied to all of this as increasing numbers of diseased patients means increased use of antibiotics, with concomitant selective pressure brought to bear on the bacterial pathogens, accelerating the pace of antibiotic resistance.
Life is a series of trade-offs. I’m the father of an autistic son. Is he vaccine-injured? I don’t know. Given a choice between the potential for autism or some serious sequellae from preventable diseases, I would choose autism.
You are simply wrong about transformation, transduction and conjugation. They do not require selective pressure from antibiotics in order to spread resistance, though selective pressure will accelerate the growth of a resistant population. It becomes a positive feedback mechanism. Remember that those genes have occurred in nature for some time.
As for John’s oils and alternative treatment modalities, no, I’m far from ignorant about them. But as a responsible medical professional I have a duty to tell people that the effects of these compounds have NOT been subjected to the same level of scrutiny as have antibiotics. Frankly, I’m not emotionally invested in HOW people choose, but in their choices being well-informed.
John claims efficacy for his oils, but as you know the aim of therapeutics is to increase efficacy while decreasing toxicity. The best therapeutic modality is the one that sees the greatest difference between these two parameters.
John’s oils have not been safety tested by any objective standard. And while some antibiotics are rather potent renal or ototoxins, at least patients know the parameters of safety/toxicity and the parameters of efficacy from the hospital’s antibiogram.
No, I can’t hold out an FDA approved antibiotic and a jar of oil as equally okay choices. However, that’s not my job. When consulted, I suggest that people take a look at the known safety data of anything they plan to ingest. After that, it’s their due diligence.
Again I present you with John’s incredibly arrogant and ignorant statement:
“Perhaps orthodox medicine got its aura of saintly miracle-cures from vaccines. It is time for this to end.”
Anyone who denies the power of vaccines and what they have accomplished simply isn’t dealing with the facts. No vaccine will ever be 100% safe for every person, and a small percentage will be injured. But doing a cost-benefit analysis, vaccines effect overwhelmingly more good than harm.
But to your point, if parents opt out of vaccinations and their children succumb to the pathogens they could have been protected against, then we blame ‘the system’?
Sorry, but I disagree with you. As a medical microbiologist who is all too-aware of CDC’s foibles and the cost-benefit analysis of the vaccines, I held my breath as I had my children immunized. I knew the risks. But I also knew the consequences of sending them off into the world without protective immunity.
If Joseph has indeed been vaccine-injured, that was a calculated risk that I took as his father, and the responsibility for the outcome is mine, and mine alone. All of the known data in 1990 said that these were very safe vaccines in the aggregate. The only suggestion otherwise was Dr Andrew Wakefield’s paper that has been retracted by the Lancet.
Mention has been made of inappropriate prescribing of antibiotics as the driving force behind the emergence of resistant isolates. True. But in fairness to physicians, they are in a no-win position with patients, especially parents.
Parents demand an antibiotic when physicians say its probably viral. Fearing litigation, they oblige. If parents withold vaccines and children get sick, well it’s those damned physicians who lie that made me afraid in the first place.
As a father, I’ve marveled at how many parents manage to make all the choices and absolve themselves of any responsibility for them.
I don’t want to end this badly between us, but coming back to Jill’s original post, I don’t think the answer to the few vaccines made with fetal cells is oregano oil, or any other oil, some of which are so potent as to have induced autoimmune disease. The answer is to lobby for vaccine preparation methods that are not morally or ethically problematic and to refine our safety testing.
Gerard.. Lobby for vax prep and refine safety testing?
come on- this is completely unrealistic in todays world when all the researchers and universities have made a pact with the devil.. Follow the money..
Look at the h1N1 epidemic.. woohoo.. they duped us on that one..
As the daughter of a holocaust survivor (who by the way had typhoid 3 x’s and lived without any medication or treatment!!Imagine that!!) and granddaughter of a pre-war and post WWII physician.. our family has always taken a holistic approach to medicine. We are much healthier for it.
the element that is missing here Gerry- and you of all people should know this.. Is that a parent MUST make the decision for their children. the trust of the pharma and govt is at an all time low, the research is biased and skewed and ultimately parents must do their own research, pray and then act.
I do not vaccinate any longer. Do I see a difference in the 4 that were vaccinated and the 4 that were not? WITHOUT A DOUBT I DO. I will never allow another child of mine to have a vaccine ever again.
FYI.. my youngest 4 who have not been vaccinated have NEVER been on antibiotics.. They are incredibly healthy and we use many homeopathic remedies along with vitamin/mineral supplements.
But thats not the argument. Take a look at Dr Deisher’s work, call her, speak to her… Maybe you should join her in her research efforts.. The levels of DNA from vaccine to vaccine vary greatly. That is alarming in itself.
do you remember Dr Ratner from the Catholic Med Association and his suspicions about the polio vaccine? well, he was right wasnt he? About the SV40 virus.. how many years did it take for the govt to admit that they KNEW it was carcinogenic?
how many children here in the Chicago area died as a result?
Pray about it Gerry.. dont try to justify the benefits of vaccination.. The benefit does not outweigh the dangers for most parents. And our numbers are growing twofold..
God Bless,.. Yvonne
Please read Debi’s post above about dr deishers work..
Again I present you with John’s incredibly arrogant and ignorant statement:
“Perhaps orthodox medicine got its aura of saintly miracle-cures from vaccines. It is time for this to end.”
That is NOT arrogant or ignorant. It IS time for medical practitioners to have to deal with the fact that they will be questioned by patients and parents. That any medical practitioner thinks that they have the right to be treated with an “aura of saintly miracle-cures” is ludicrous.
Doctors do not always know best. And I’m sorry, but yes, the medical community (of which I am a part) bears the responsibility for its own lack of credibility.
The standard formula when presented with questions goes like this:
(1) Dismiss the concerns as a lack of knowledge or being misinformed
(2) Dismiss the concerns as a lack of ability to understand
(3) Attack the one presenting the concerns and state that they will be responsible for the next pandemic.
Sadly, you have followed this standard formula to the letter.
Anyone who denies the power of vaccines and what they have accomplished simply isn’t dealing with the facts. No vaccine will ever be 100% safe for every person, and a small percentage will be injured. But doing a cost-benefit analysis, vaccines effect overwhelmingly more good than harm.
The problem is that the cost-benefit analysis has not been thoroughly or honestly done. What is that small percentage? 1%? 10%? Nobody knows. What will the injuries be? Brain injuries? Cancer? Allergies? Guillan-Barre? Nobody knows for sure. How are parents and patients supposed to make informed decisions when the medical establishment has circled the wagons? Whenever anyone even formulates a hypothesis that further research should follow up on, they are attacked because “the research doesn’t bear out the hypothesis”… of course it doesn’t. No one will allow honest research on these topics to be done!
To be so dismissive of anecdotal evidence is a major problem as well. You see, ethics will prohibit a truly scientifically based study. We have to rely on anecdotal evidence. This evidence needs to be honestly compiled and looked at longitudinally in order to grasp details that can possibly be followed up on in the laboratory. But we can’t just inject children with toxins as a study, that would never be acceptable research.
You are simply wrong about transformation, transduction and conjugation. They do not require selective pressure from antibiotics in order to spread resistance, though selective pressure will accelerate the growth of a resistant population. It becomes a positive feedback mechanism. Remember that those genes have occurred in nature for some time.
Okay, this is getting ridiculous. Let’s look at YOUR WORDS.
1. Transformation. This is the process whereby DNA from a dead cell containing antibiotic resistance genes happens to be floating by a cell and is taken up by the cell and incorporated into the cell’s chromosome through homologous recombination.
DNA from a dead cell “containing antibiotic resistance genes”… where did that dead cell get them? Either from transformation from other dead cells containing antibiotic resistant genes or from exposure to antibiotics that was not efficient enough to destroy the bacteria before it became antibiotic resistant.
2. Transduction. This is when a virus that attacks bacteria gets replicated within a bacterium and inadvertantly gets packaged with host DNA containing antibiotic resistance genes instead of viral nucleic acid. When that virus is released it goes to another cell and injects its contents, the antibiotic resistance genes which recombine through homologous recombination.
The virus gets packaged with host DNA containing antibiotic resistant genes and then releases those antibiotic resistant genes into other bacteria. And where did the host DNA containing the antibiotic resistant genes come from? Well, maybe through transformation… which we’ve already shown at some point there was a bacteria exposed to antibiotics… even if it was many generations back. And maybe from another bacteria that was exposed to it through transduction… and maybe directly through exposure to an antibiotic.
3. Conjugation. We call this bacterial ‘sex’, as one bacterium extends a sex pilus to another bacterium. Once the two are joined, the cell with the pilus sends into the other cell a small circular piece of DNA called a fertility plasmid. This piece of DNA contains the genes necessary for making a sex pilus AND antibiotic resistance genes. This has the effect of making a hitherto tame cell not only antibiotic resistant, but capable of spreading that genetic mechanism of resistance.
Again… where did the first bacteria that sends DNA through the fertilitty plasmid get its antibiotic resistant properties? I’d go through this again, but I think I’ve made my point.
Antibiotics have been around for a really long time. Only recently have reputable doctors put their foot down about indiscriminately dispensing antibiotics for every random fever and cold. In their defense, prior generations of doctors did not know that they were creating antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria… but to claim that at the base of antibiotic resistant bacteria the original cause is NOT antibiotic exposure strong enough to cause a micro-evolutionary response but not strong enough to cause the demise of the bacteria (and or course, even death won’t necessarily prevent all cases of transformation, although if it happens quickly enough you have a dead bacterium that hasn’t had time to become antibiotic resistant) is intellectually dishonest.
Pyocyanase was used in the 1890s in Germany. It often did not work… thus causing bacteria exposed to it that had the beginnings of antibiotic resistance.
Sir Fleming discovered the mechanism of Penicillium notatum in 1928 against Staphylococcus aureus. And yet, there are many strains of Staphylococcus aureus today that are still not antibiotic resistant. Thank heavens! My son had a cellulitis in his knee four years ago. The strain of Staph aureus that was identified by the lab at the hospital as not being resistant to any known antibiotic. He was quickly and efficiently treated. I am certainly not against antibiotics. Rather, I am concerned that indiscriminate use of antibiotics will render these treatments unusable in future generations, reverting us to the type of outcomes we had prior to the discovery of antibiotics.
And if it does… people using tea tree oil are not going to be the ones to blame. WE are going to be to blame, the medical community… even if it was originally done without knowledge of the consequences of our actions.
I don’t want to end this badly between us, but coming back to Jill’s original post, I don’t think the answer to the few vaccines made with fetal cells is oregano oil, or any other oil, some of which are so potent as to have induced autoimmune disease. The answer is to lobby for vaccine preparation methods that are not morally or ethically problematic and to refine our safety testing.
Okay, that’s nice. How about testing some of these anecdotally supported oils to determine by what mechanism, if any, they are useful? Hard to get THAT research done because there isn’t money behind it. It doesn’t mean that the proponents are necessarily wrong… it means they haven’t been proven right. And they haven’t been proven right because there is no money involved in proving them right.
Most of our best medications have come about because some researcher noted that there was a legitimate, anecdotally supported correlation between use of a natural material and a certain result and a curious researcher went looking for the mechanism.
Acetyldigoxin, cardiotonic: Foxglove
Aescin, anti-inflammatory: Horse Chestnut
L-Dopa, anti-parkinsonism: Velvet Bean
Ephedrine, antihistamine: Ma Huang
Picrotoxin, analeptic: Anamirta cocculus
Taxol, antitumor agent: Pacific or Western Yew
Thymol, antifungal: Thymus vulgaris… thyme… yup, the essential oil of that stuff in your cabinet you cook with. It’s in Listerine (oh, the horrors!)
And that’s just a handful. There are dozens more. Oh, hey, aspirin… comes from white willow bark.
Are there side effects and contraindications for these substances? Absolutely. Should they be studied so that they can be used more safely and with more efficacy? Absolutely. Too bad there isn’t enough money to be gained to make it happen.
Just dismissing them as quackery is intellectually dishonest.
Gerry,
There is a problem with credibility here. You assume (I think) the problem is in my therapeutic choice, It isn’t.
I have noted two difficulties with your approach. A) Population growth in this time frame became possible because humans had access to inexpensive food. [A vaccine doesn’t make too much sense to starving people … note the African-AIDS debacle.] Folks also were more consistent in their hygienic practices (especially those concerning water). These two had as much to do with population growth, as the protective effects of vaccination
B) Its follow the money, The noted expense is a result of concurrences. In the last century we had many viable herbs that cured diseases. The pharma industry was to fabricate novel molecules that mimed the properties of natural foods. {Natural does not mean ‘safe’.] So billions of dollars are spent to prove the safety of novel molecules. Pharma’s reward was trillions of dollars. And now herbal remedies are good only if they spend the billions the pharmaceutical industry has. This is the precise battle being fought by Health Canada. [Thank you, I’d rather not become a receptacle for expensive chemicals that are foreign to my metabolism.]
Money spent does not assure quality! More/most money does not equal ‘the best’.
Elisabeth,
I’m with you on testing these compounds. It’s not a matter of lack of funds so much as it’s a matter of science and our methodology.
When a new compound is tested, just the particular chemical species in question is usually what a pharmaceutical company will test. That’s because we need to control for all but one variable at a time.
The problem with homeopathic remedies is that they are either the entire leaf/plant being ingested, or an essential oil. The difficulty here is in trying to control for thousands of biologically active compounds simultaneously, most of which remain unresearched and their effects unknown.
Chemical A in the leaf may be very efficacious as regards the immune system, but chemical B may be setting the stage for a cancer that might not emerge for some time.
You allude to as much when you say that aspirin is derived from white willow bark (originally). However, aspirin is made from other compounds by every student who takes organic chemistry.
It’s easier and less expensive for a pharmaceutical company to compound the chemical directly than to purify it from the natural source.
As for my dismissing these compounds as quackery, not so fast. People are keen to point out that natural cures have been around for ages. True. But it is indisputable that modern medicine, especially vaccines and antibiotics have done infinitely more in preventing and curing disease than those old remedies in the era pre-World War II.
People are inherently distrustful of the medical establishment because some vaccines have harmed a very small percentage of people who received them, yet turn to homeopathy with complete trust and uncritically as they ingest thousands of biochemicals whose effects are unresearched and unknown.
So the very people who assail the shortcomings in medicine’s empiricism lurch completely in the other direction and place themselves in the care of those for whom there is little empirical evidence of the sort they demand from Western medicine.
That’s a non sequitur to me.
People are inherently distrustful of the medical establishment because some vaccines have harmed a very small percentage of people who received them, yet turn to homeopathy with complete trust and uncritically as they ingest thousands of biochemicals whose effects are unresearched and unknown.
Wrong. People are inherently distrustful of the medical establishment because of its arrogance and its “we know best” attitude, despite the fact that new technologies and new research comes out every day that contradicts some previously known “fact” of medical belief.
If the medical profession was less dogmatic in its approach and less patronizing in its tone more people would listen to what is said.
When I was born, for example, it was “known” that congenital hypothyroidism was a “genetic defect” that was spontaneous in nature and was not inherited in any way. It was also “known” that this spontaneous “defect” would not repeat itself in subsequent pregnancies.
Therefore, when I was born and my mother informed the doctor that she KNEW from listening to my cry that I had congenital hypothyroidism, the same as my older brother, the doctor dismissed her concerns and told her not to worry her pretty little head over it. After three months of arguing with the doctor, my mom got fed up and took my dad in with her. My father looked at the doctor and said, “It’s a blood test. Either you’re right or she’s right but until you do that test nobody is going to know. So do the test and either prove my wife wrong… or prove her right.”
When the test was done, it was shown that not only do I have congenital hypothyroidism, but I have a far more severe need for thyroid replacement than he did! My mother was 100% right. Based on what? A mother’s intuition. And if the test hadn’t been done, I would now have what is called “cretinism” and a severe level of mental retardation… rather than having started college at 15, played Carnegie Hall at 17 and toured Europe as an opera singer at 18.
My brother and I were the basis of medical studies performed by Dr. Daniel Duick, one of the leading endocrinologists in this country. And now, congenital hypothyroidism is tested for in the newborn screen of every state in the U.S.
Now it is known that congenital hypothyroidism is a rare but inheritable genetic disorder.
What we think we “know”… is always open to further investigation. Arrogance and closed-mindedness is what makes people distrust the mainstream medical community.
It’s easier and less expensive for a pharmaceutical company to compound the chemical directly than to purify it from the natural source.
Very true. Just as there are synthetic forms of most vitamins, such as vitamin C.
And yet, the body cannot utilize vitamin C from a pill in the same way that it utilizes vitamin C from, say, an orange. That is because of those “other compounds” that you are so quick to dismiss as potentially harmful. We don’t even know what those other compounds might be… but God does.
Take breast milk as an example. No matter how much they try or the claims they make, chemistry cannot replicate breast milk. No formula, no matter how sophisticated, can match it. Thank heavens formula is available… but it is at best an “adequate” substitute for breast milk.
Sometimes it is what scientists think is a “not important” part of a compound that turns out to have the most important benefits.
Couldn’t have pointed out the problem better …. kudos Gerry!
DIFFICULTIES – I used to blog on a site espousing nutrition. One of my fellow bloggers used to comment that over 5,000 different chemicals had been identified in the common apple. Absolute control by individuation is simplistic fantasy.
In 1980 I traveled to Germany to be a guinea pig for a treatment called Cell Therapy. The cell fractions used were sheep fetal cells, freeze dried and divided into fractions …. eg. liver, pancreas, heart, etc. The therapy was that parts of these cell fractions could be used to repair damage to my own cells.
Sheep and humans have exactly the same amino acids (except two). After our immune system has destroyed everything with the two, the rest of the freeze-dried material builds only the part of cells needing repair. It sure is nice to have exactly what is needed on site and available. The ‘safety’ controls were mainly veterinary.
No ‘control’ as you see it was ever intended nor necessary.
Homeopathy is a form of medicine in itself. All essential oils are contraindicated in treatment modalities.
Maybe I’ve already missed it here, but I’m not finding much info online either. Can someone explain why aborted fetal cells are used in vaccines? What is the purpose of them being there?
Thanks,
Luana
Luana,
(a guess) A human cell (alive or dead() has literally thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of different chemicals. A fetal cell comes much closer to the diversity of all cells than does any single drug. The efficacy (acceptance) of a vaccine may lie in how similar it is to the hosts cells.
Janet,
Once I was told by one of my sister’s “I don’t believe in God!” “So what?” I answered. “It really does not matter that you believe in God. What really matters is that God believes in you!” Now replace the word ‘believe’ with ‘trust’. The implications are immense!
love you