Transgender student attacks graphic abortion display on campus
On November 1 and 2 The Center for Bio-Ethical Reform Midwest set up its Genocide Awareness Project exhibit at the Indiana University–Purdue University Fort Wayne campus. The GAP display not only shows the reality of abortion in large full color photos, it also compares abortion genocide to other historical genocides.
On the 2nd day student Tara Boes was arrested for “jumping over the display’s fence, tearing down the posters and attempting to injure volunteers of the exhibit,” according to IPFW’s The Communicator. Here’s video…
Boes was an unusual figure, and his gender was unclear to officers. Turns out he’s transgendered and is unusually hostile toward preborn children. All of that became clear in a follow-up interview:
“Approaching the display, I started to feel really physically ill. I thought it was really disgusting that someone would compare abortion to genocide. To compare a woman ridding her body of a parasite to a lynching – that’s pretty disgusting.”
Boes denies attempting to go through official school channels of filing a complaint against the group that brought the display to campus.
“I wouldn’t know who to talk to and I don’t think that it would achieve anything – especially on a campus like ours where we have 5 or 6 religious groups for such a small campus, even though it is state funded.”
The president of Students For Bioethical Research, Jami Beer, stated that SBR is not affiliated with any religious institutions.
“We understand religion is a volatile topic, and we try to shy away from it. We focus more on the morals and history.”…
Boes would not comment extensively on the reasons that compelled her to act in such manner due to her upcoming court date. She does, however, express confusion about the arrest.
“The arresting officer told me 3 or 4 times that I was not under arrest, yet I was put in handcuffs and brought down to the jail, where I spent the night and was charged with 2 misdemeanors.”…
Despite the outpouring of support, she expresses some regret, due to the legal repercussions of her actions.
“Yeah, I regret what I did because I spent a night in jail where my gender wasn’t respected – [she was] forced to sleep in a cell with 2 naked men. I have legal fines to pay. I am being charged with battery and criminal mischief… none of that stuff is really worth what happened.”
Note Boes immediately concluded the pro-life display was religious, when it was biological, scientific, and historical. And he regretted not the vandalism and battery but the consequences.
There is ongoing debate on the IPFW campus about the GAP display, with at least 1 student displaying woeful ignorance of the First Amendment. There is no need to protect free speech everyone loves. From The Communicator, November 10:
But student Mandy Parker [said]… “I think the demonstration was in poor taste, and designed for shock value. I feel it was an insult to the academic atmosphere and harassing to the student population,” she said.
Parker… delivered 30 to 35 complaint forms from students to the Dean of Students…. But she didn’t file the complaints strictly for subject matter.
“I filed a complaint form because the IPFW Student Handbook was ignored,” she said. “When the incident concerning a student and “disorderly or disruptive conduct” occurred in conjunction with the GAP demonstration, the event should have been shut down, as such actions are “not permitted,” she said, citing pages 169 and 170 of the IPFW Student Handbook.
Mark Harrington, Executive Director for CBR Midwest… said he believes many college students feel they are an exception to laws and that they can act out because of many reasons.
“They haven’t been taught basic civics in high school, or they haven’t been taught the meaning of the First Amendment. The First Amendment was meant to protect free speech,” he said….
“Politically correct or popular speech doesn’t need protection. I think we’ve lost that. We believe only that the type of speech that won’t offend anybody should be permitted,” Harrington said….
“When it comes to disagreeing, young people haven’t been taught how to disagree without being disagreeable,” Harrington said, adding that some students haven’t been taught how to make their opinions known without doing something illegal.Parker, on the other hand, respected the exhibit, but still felt strongly about it.
“I support the freedom of speech. I respect the rights of the GAP to hold such a demonstration. I also believe that I, as a student, had the right to assembly and the right to not like the GAP,” she said. “I wish GAP had a more open point of view, and presented their beliefs in a less offensive manner.”
Harrington wrote in a follow-up email:
Ms. Parker advocates mob rule. If IPFW were to abdicate its duty to deter assaults against GAP by shutting down the display because of the violent actions of a single pro-abortion student this would be seen as an attempt to encourage a “heckler’s veto” as a means of discouraging the free expression of ideas. The US Supreme Court has ruled that a “heckler’s veto” is an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment.
The message of social reform always offends those responsible for the injustice. Offended passersby frequently threaten and or employ violence as a means of suppressing speech. The constitutional right to speak out against those injustices has little meaning if government officials permit defenders of injustice to suppress criticism by expressing threats.
If IPFW or any other government institution caved to mob rule that would effectively end all attempts bring about social reform. GAP not only teaches students about abortion but provides a reminder to students that the first amendment applies to everyone and speech cannot be silenced because it is disturbing.

Designed for shock value? Give me a break. This is abortion. It is ugly. It is awful. It is unnecessary. Sorry you don’t like that, Mandy Parker. Good grief.
Wow, pro-aborts really don’t want to face the truth. They’ll do absolutely anything and use any argument to keep us silent. Too bad, not gonna happen, pro-aborts.
calling a baby(fetus as they like to keep it) a parasite is just proof this gal (guy) is completely messed up. how very very tragic and sad.
Transgenderism AND abortion? What a juicy story.
I am glad this person was arrested.
Why do we care that this person is transgendered? (You’re missing an S in the title, by the way.)
“Note Boes immediately concluded the pro-life display was religious, when it was biological, scientific, and historical.”
A thousand times THIS!
Kelsey, whoops thanks.
And to answer your question, it’s a compelling component to the story. A boy pretending to be a girl but hating the thought of the decidedly female condition of pregnancy so much he exercises his masculinity to become violent… ? Way mixed up, poor guy.
Ms. Parker should have just ignored the signs. The people who display them are professional trouble-makers just like the Westboro Baptists. Attention–especially the kind they can parlay into “persecution”–is exactly what they want. Of course I sympathize with Ms. Parker–this crap doesn’t belong at an institution of higher learning (or any respectable venue) in the first place.
This person obviously has issues and should be either charged with assault or provided with mental health treatment (not be being transgender).
I do agree with their protestation regarding the comparison of abortion with genocide though.
Jill is exactly right. This guy really is mixed up. He lacks the nurturing nature of a woman, and has rejected the chivalrous upbringing of a man, regarding women and their children.
And this shows the big mistake homosexual rights groups make by including themselves under an LGBT umbrella. At least one in that group is considered by most to be seriously mentally and emotionally unbalanced, and lays suspicion of the same being true for the others.
Biology dictates that the fetal human is a living member of the human race, and should be treated as such. It also dictates that if you have a Y chromosome, you’re a male of the species. This guy is just anti-science, I think. XD
I like Mark Harrington’s words. What he wrote is very articulate! A lot of young people do not have impulse control. The student reacted immediately and violently. This is kind of sad; students need a better, earlier understanding of civics and how to address your concerns without getting into a legal bind. But sadder still is Boes opinion that he was a parasite in his own mother’s body. What a terrible thing to consider yourself! No matter what Boes’ gender issues or upbringing, Boes was just as precious a baby as anyone else.
I wonder how many transgendered antichoicers become prochoice because of the disrespect shown by Jill and other people leaving comments here.
Kushie, I’m all about GLBT rights, and nothing will sway me from pro-life beliefs. I don’t even believe the two are related. Give me a break. That’s like saying I will decide to be a carnivore because Hitler was a vegetarian.
Being pro-life doesn’t have to mean being pro-living any kind of life that you feel like at the moment.
Starting to feel the drop in numbers KM?
I’m glad Boes was stopped before anyone was hurt.
I do agree that the issue here has nothing to do with the fact that the perpetrator was trans, but that does open up an interesting tangential point. Abortion apologists constantly say that “unless you have ovaries” you can’t have an opinion in the abortion debate. Even if she gets/has had surgery, Boes is MtF. She never will be able to be pregnant. Should she be allowed to have a voice? Obviously she thinks she should, but common pro-choice parlance says she shouldn’t.
Which, I would think, is yet another example of how the pro-choice position hurts everyone–even the people who hold it.
I wish “gay” and “lesbian” wouldn’t be lumped in with “transgendered” all of the time. I have no problem with homosexuals, if you’re gay, you’re gay, and that’s the way it is, because that’s who you’re attracted to. I actually support gay marriage (in a way…I don’t think the government should recognize marriage. I think anyone should be allowed to get a civil union, and the government’s involvement would end there. Then you just take that to the religious institution of your choice and have it recognized in a ceremony. Religious institutions should be allowed to choose to recognize the union or not. Everyone wins.) However, to me, the whole “transgendered” thing is just like being a furry, and if we have to recognize a transgendered man as a woman just because he says he is, then we should also have to recognize that the guy who dresses up in an otter suit is really an otter, just because he says he is. Absurdity at its finest.
I was just reading an article about transgender regret. I don’t get the whole thing. If you don’t want to be a typical man, why can’t you just be the kind of man you want to be?
Kushie, I’m all about GLBT rights, and nothing will sway me from pro-life beliefs. I don’t even believe the two are related. Give me a break. That’s like saying I will decide to be a carnivore because Hitler was a vegetarian.
Yep.
Gender dysphoria is a condition that happens when a baby is born with the body of one sex and the brain wiring of the other. It doesn’t have to do with not wanting to be a typical man – it has to do with feeling that even if your body is male, you are not mentally a male in any sense whatsoever. Or your body is female and you don’t mentally feel like a female in any sense whatsoever. Seeing as you can’t change a person’s brain wiring, changing the body is the best thing to do. Otherwise you’ve got people living their entire lives in bodies that don’t even feel like they’re really theirs.
There probably are a non-negligible number of people who believe they’re transgender when they really just have a lot of psychological problems. Gender dysphoria shows up at a very early age. I can’t speak as to whether Tara is truly transgendered, seeing as I don’t know her, but she’s got some messed-up views about unborn babies, at any rate.
Amusing. Moonbat is always the first in line on Twitter to condemn the ‘antis’ for violence, yet no condemnation for the prochoice violence here. Cafeteria Christianity strikes again.
Ah the resident thug is back. Yallow, xalisae!
Megan, for the n-th time: go get some help.
What’s a moonbat? We have duckbats where I live. Or at least that’s what the one I love calls them.
I see Pelosi got the numbers. It looks like Murkowski might well do so too. And I read that Palin is – again – considering running for president on 2012. Please, please do run Sarah, please!
Hiya, Megan. Managed to avoid granting life to any poor soul unfortunate enough to find itself within your uterus thus far, I hope? If you ever get around to having one of those oh-so-valuable “wanted” children, I hope they pack a sweater. I’m sure the chill your heart must give off is bitter. <3 you!
Cranium,
A moonbat is an extreme leftist nutjob. Liberal utopia by eugenics/abortion. Free speech for me, and none for thee. Unicorns and Obama. Marxist, Socialist. Loons.
My dad taught me how to weld when I was 7. I spent most of my time growing up playing with legos, little green plastic soldiers, and fixing my bike. I have never understood females, nor do I care to, on average. I always associate better with the males when I go anywhere. I was hounded by military recruiters when I was in high school because I scored higher than most of the boys in my class on Mechanical Reasoning when we took the ASVAB, which they all said was HIGHLY unusual for a female. Mutilating my body in an attempt to be something that I possibly would’ve preferred to be but never would-not really-was never going to make me happy. Accepting who and what you are is step one. Surgery can’t ever make you something you’re not, no matter how deeply they cut. Having wings would be pretty cool too, but even though they could probably slap something on, doesn’t mean I would be able to fly, or turn into a bird. I just don’t get it. But, I hope these people find the happiness for which they seem to be so desperately searching.
Unicorns? I love unicorns. Remember the old Three Stooges movie where they are on Mars or somewhere, that had a unicorn in it.
A duckbat is actually a type of stilt which seems to spend more time walking than flying. When you get a few together they walk down the road squawking like a bunch of larrikins.
Thanks Jill.
cranium, I hope Sarah Palin runs too. Can it be any more ridiculous than a guy who had the “audacity” to run the moment he was elected senator (after dirty-tricking his opponents out of contention – and after an undistinguished few years as state senator, where he voted “present” half the time, and made it his mission to see that surviviving aborted babies died?)
I care that this person stifled other people’s freedom of speech. I do not care about whether this person is male, female, hetero-, homo-, bi-, trans-, or a-.
Tara Boes also demonstrates further that both genders possess an equal capacity for violence.
His gender wasn’t respected while spending the night in jail for an opinion he hadn’t respected.
Hans, far be it from me to ‘refudiate’ Sarah’s claim that she can see Russia from her place but…..
I still really, really hope she runs.
crainium, That’s a line from Saturday Night Live. It’s now a political myth, like George H.W. Bush really being amazed by a grocery scanner instead of just being effusive in a photo-op. :#
I would love to see that Genocide Awareness Project exhibit! I am shocked, amazed, and very grateful that it was allowed to be set up on a college campus. This is real progress!
I’m trying to comprehend why this exhibit would arouse such offense and anger in anyone at all, including a TG person, why Boes would feel the need to act so violently. This is very sad.
I feel just as sad for Mandy Parker. If I had the opportunity, I would tell her that at this point in time, after almost 38 years of legalized infanticide in this country, with a death toll of 52 million and counting, shock value is needed!
Appeals for civil rights in the 1950s and ’60s created just as much shock value, and that was needed too. Sometimes shock value is necessary to displace complacency and “raise consciousness/awareness” (terms from the ’60s).
Mark Harrington got it right. GOD BLESS HIM, and may his tribe increase!
You wish Hans. Go google both incidents, there are transcripts and video. They happened.
Run for president Sarah, run.
cranium and others, here are a couple links for you, unrelated to the topic at hand. (Cranium’s such a dedicated and wonderful troll…)
George H.W. Bush: http://www.snopes.com/history/american/bushscan.asp
Palin: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/11/18/abc-brings-i-can-see-russia-my-backyard-palin-interview
And I am one who hopes Sarah does NOT run for President in 2012.
Google what? President H.W. Bush was accused of being so out of touch that he was unaware of the technology in supermarkets, and Tina Fey coined the phrase “You can see Russia from my house!” on SNL.
Palin’s use of “refudiate” is an example of what happens when your mouth is running ahead of your mind, and you get caught between two synonymous or related words (“refute” and “repudiate”), like someone thinking both “He threw a rock.” and “He threw a stone.” and ending up saying, “He threw a rone.”
Palin responded: “They’re our next door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.” – not from where anyone lives you can’t.
I didn’t mention Bush Jnr., I was talking about Palin.
Fair enough bmmg39, yes we all do something similar occasionally. Although I didn’t think Palin spoke that slowly ;-)
There is still a wealth of foolishness that’s come from her though.
Why not Kel?
Good grief, cranium, why the political diatribe? Are you seeking to detract from the subject of this thread, or what?
Please cease the trolling.
Sorry Claire, I’ll stop. It’s just that it has been said that this site is about politics as much as anything else and I just thought I’d mention those matters when I saw they hadn’t been added.
Unfortunately, abortion was politicized in the 1960s by Dr. Bernard Nathanson and his NARAL cohorts. He is frank about this fact.
However, this article wasn’t political and there was no reason to seek to stir up political dissension in this thread instead of sticking to the subject at hand. I’m no authority here, only a fellow poster, but IIRC, that is a clear violation of posting rules.
And now, in the interest of getting this thread back on topic:
I would love to see that Genocide Awareness Project exhibit! I am shocked, amazed, and very grateful that it was allowed to be set up on a college campus. This is real progress!
I’m trying to comprehend why this exhibit would arouse such offense and anger in anyone at all, including a TG person, why Boes would feel the need to act so violently. This is very sad.
I feel just as sad for Mandy Parker. If I had the opportunity, I would tell her that at this point in time, after almost 38 years of legalized infanticide in this country, with a death toll of 52 million and counting, shock value is needed!
Appeals for civil rights in the 1950s and ’60s created just as much shock value, and that was needed too. Sometimes shock value is necessary to displace complacency and “raise consciousness/awareness” (terms from the ’60s).
Mark Harrington got it right. GOD BLESS HIM, and may his tribe increase!
Did you just tell me off so you could repeat what you had already written?
“Yeah, I regret what I did because I spent a night in jail where my gender wasn’t respected – [she was] forced to sleep in a cell with 2 naked men. —————————————————————————————————
The two naked men could make an equivalent complaint for cruel and unusual punishment after having been forced to share a cell with such an angry and bitter soul. I hope they were fortunate enough to have slept thru the ordeal.
It is not unusual for beligerant and obnoxious folk to end up in the drunk tank. The police and and corrections officers do not suffer fools well.
I do remember vividly spending three days in a pod in the King County Jail in Seattle with about 20 other men. The corrections officers brought in a new prisoner who was gender challenged and put him in an adjacent pod.
That did not go well.
In just a little bit the guards were forced to remove the unfortunate fellow. His fellow guests were not yet adequately indoctrinated in political correctnessto enjoy his company.
Junior sufferred no physical harm.
The inmates just raised such a ruckus that the guards re-considered their ill conceived and ill advised decision to engage in social experimentation with some of Seattle’s less sophisticated citizens.
If Boes is dissatisfied with the accomodations at the Fort Wayne, Indianna jail then perhaps Boes should make housing arrangements in advance before he chooses to take actions which will likely result in his incarceration.
If Boes has any dietary preferences, he should make those arrangements in advance as well.
joan November 18th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
“Of course I sympathize with Ms. Parker–this crap doesn’t belong at an institution of higher learning (or any respectable venue) in the first place.”
===============================================================
Freedom of inquiry and thought and speech do NOT ‘belong in an institution of higher learning or any other respectable venue’ where JOAN might happen to meander by.
The more efficent and effective method to deal with JOAN’s disability would be to provide her with some blinders like they put on mules.
That way everyone else can enjoy freedom of speech, expression and assembly and JOAN can continue on in her self willed ignorance without jeopardizing her bliss.
“On the 2nd day student Tara Boes was arrested for “jumping over the display’s fence, tearing down the posters and attempting to injure volunteers of the exhibit,” according to IPFW’s The Communicator.”
The hit dog always howls first and usually the loudest.
Did you just tell me off so you could repeat what you had already written?
Not at all, cranium. As I said, I was hoping to get the discussion back on track. And I didn’t tell you off. :)
Assuming institutions of higher learning really do have academic freedom (well, we can pretend), a college campus is the perfect place for such an exhibit!
Jill hit the nail on the head when she said the ‘liberal’ attitude is “free speech for me, none for thee.” It’s been some time since I’ve heard such a true and pithy statement. You go, Jill! :)
1. Not only was Boes just as precious as a fetus and as a baby when Boes was young, Boes is today just as precious a person as Parker and as the students who put on the display–and as a zygote. It is a pity that Boes does not know this.
2. KushielsMoon, your comments would only hold water if you were not pro-dismembering-babies yourself. You are evil. God wrote about false teachers such as you, who claim to be Christian and yet advocate murdering babies and offer more support and sympathy to those who kill their own children than to those true Christians pleading for their lives:
She will introduce destructive heresies. Many will follow her shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. She will exploit you with fabricated stories. Her condemnation has long been hanging over her, and her destruction has not been sleeping.
The Lord knows how to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgement. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desires of the sinful nature and despise authority.
She blasphemes in matters she does not understand. She is like a brute beast, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like a beast she will perish.
She will be paid back with harm for the harm she has done. She is like a blot or blemish, revelling in her sin while she claims fellowship with you. With eyes full of adultery, she never stops sinning; she seduces the unstable–she is accursed. She has left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by an ass–a beast without speech–who spoke with a human voice and restrained Balaam’s madness.
KushielsMoon is a spring without water, a mist driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for her. For she mouths empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the sinful human nature, she ensnares those who are just escaping from those who live in error. If they had escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning; they are like a dog that eats its own vomit, or a pig that has been washed and goes back to wallow in her own waste.
KushielsMoon, you are evil and a preacher of evil and worse, you do these things in the name of my Lord Jesus, who loved children and blessed them and spent time with them and called on His followers to protect, respect, and in some ways even emulate them. He told us, in fact, that whatever we did for a little one we did for Him.
We speak up for the defenseless. We do our best to hold them back from the slaughter. You advocate for killing them. Do you not know that when you say it is okay to stick a cannula with a knife into their place of refuge, when you say it is okay to cut up their bodies and suck out their remains, when you say that it is okay to grab hold of their tiny arms with forceps and twist them off, it is okay to stab scissors into their skulls and remove their brains and crush their perfectly formed heads–you are saying those things about the one you claim is your
Savior. You are saying it is okay to crush the head that wore the crown of thorns–go ahead and twist off those limbs that bear the marks of nails on the hands and feet–slice up the body that was broken for us. You call on us not just to recrucify Jesus, but to rip him limb from limb. He was beaten until he no longer looked human (Isaiah 52:14)–so surely it would be okay to so torture a bloody “clump of cells” with the bare form of a man? This is what you advocate. You say it is good that one person should die so that another may not be burdened, and that person dies a horrific death of torture. But despite what people like you did to him, my Redeemer lives. And so do the precious children whose deaths you have cheered. You, on the other hand, are dead.
But even you can know forgiveness and life. Repent. The kingdom is near.
Mutilating my body in an attempt to be something that I possibly would’ve preferred to be but never would-not really-was never going to make me happy. Accepting who and what you are is step one.
But that’s not what gender dysphoria is about. If you’d had gender dysphoria, you would have looked at your female body at a very young age and had a strong feeling that this body was not supposed to be yours. There are stories about little transgendered kids who insisted from the time they could talk that they were the opposite sex, no matter how many times their parents told them otherwise. If someone asks them to draw a picture of themselves, they either draw a picture of themselves as the opposite sex or draw two pictures – them on the outside and them on the inside. They don’t just want to play with the boy toys or wear lipstick. Little MtF kids want to grow up to have breasts, curves, female genitalia, and no more penis. Little FtM kids want to grow up to have penises and testicles and no breasts. You wouldn’t have “possibly preferred” being a boy. You would have wanted to have a male body and longed for it desperately.
On the subject of where Tara spent the night in jail, they should have put her in a cell by herself. Rape and violence against transgendered people are not uncommon and it’s a threat adult transgendered people are always very aware of.
I was on campus for part of this GAP project, and in no way were the presenters disrupting anything on campus! There was plenty of room to walk wherever you needed to go and avoid the display if you really wanted to – you will notice it’s there, but shessh, no one’s on a bullhorn or pulling you up to it. And the folks who interacted with the students were very respectful, and did not focus on religion but instead on ethics, philosphy and civil rights.
Guys , pete’s sake, quit bashing the transgendered person. You make pro-lifers look so self-righteous. Marauder is right – she/he should have been put in a cell by herself.
On the subject of where Tara spent the night in jail, they should have put her in a cell by herself.
Yes. One would think…..
Marauder, with all due respect, I don’t think the treatment for a gender disorder should include irreversible surgery. I will try to find the link to the article. The rates of regret are very high and even when they go back to living as a man, their bodies are mutilated and beyond being able to make them what they used to be. My philosophy: Don’t cut yer junk. You can put a dress on and all the eyeliner you like, but surgery on the body to fix a problem in the mind? Sounds wrong to me. Doctors who do it are misusing their skills. That being said, I’m wouldn’t be shocked if statistics showed that most “transgendered” people are pro-choice. Both behaviors, promoting abortion and submitting to sex change surgery, are physical manifestations of mental pathology. (I don’t think all women who get abortions are mentally ill at the time, however, because I think most don’t realize the gravity of what they’re about to do). I hope Tara’s life gets better after this. Bad enough to lose your temper and land in jail, but worse to be a big news story about it. As far as which cell, I suppose they could have asked the women in their drunk tank to vote on it and see if they’d let him spend the night with them.
Palin responded: “They’re our next door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.” – not from where anyone lives you can’t.
She didn’t say she lived where you could see it. Did she? Is there not land in Alaska from which one could see Russia due to its close proximity? Alaska was once Russian territory.
Why not Palin, I assume you’re asking? Because while I believe her to be a smart and savvy individual, I think the effects of the media’s assault on her and her family in would take YEARS to undo. Now just isn’t her time. I could see her being in a cabinet position, though.
Assuming institutions of higher learning really do have academic freedom (well, we can pretend), a college campus is the perfect place for such an exhibit!
Agreed.
Perhaps this transgendered person was angry at prolifers because some are very anti LGBT. Of course, this doesn’t make his/her actions right.
“Tara” Boes is actually Terrence E. Boes, III, the name that he gave the police in the video Jill linked to above.
The Indiana court system has a record of his case. He has been charged with battery resulting in bodily injury and criminal mischief – pecuniary loss at least $250 but less than $2,500:
https://mycase.in.gov/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=7002859
phillymiss
November 19th, 2010 at 9:48 am
“Perhaps this transgendered person was angry at prolifers because some are very anti LGBT.”
==============================================================
filly,
I believe you are confusing cause and effect.
Emotionally healthy and stable people do not tend to self mutilate or have an emotional meltdown when confronted with that with which they disagree.
It would be much more reasonable to suggest that Tara Boes was transgendered because she is an angry, bitter and wounded soul rebelling at life and shaking his/her fist at the ONE who gave her breath and life and complaining, “Why hast thou made me thus?” while at the same time refusing to acknowledge HIS/HER existence.
It has probably never crossed his/her mind that life’s wounds made her/him thus and the first step to healing and restoration would be forgiving those who have wounded him/her.
Tara does not seem to me to be a logical and reasonable person, but even if she/he were, forgiveness is not a logical choice for those who have never experienced forgiveness.
The terrible parable does have it’s lessons.
Matt 18:1-35
32Then his master called him and said to him, You contemptible and wicked attendant! I forgave and cancelled all that [great] debt of yours because you begged me to.
33And should you not have had pity and mercy on your fellow attendant, as I had pity and mercy on you?
34And in wrath his master turned him over to the torturers (the jailers), till he should pay all that he owed.
35So also My heavenly Father will deal with every one of you if you do not freely forgive your brother from your heart his offenses.
I believe Tara Boes in a prison of his/her own making.
I will observe Tara is in a better condition than those of us, myself included, who have been forgiven much and yet stubbornly refuse to love much.
I believe the ‘MASTER‘ will be much more lenient with her/him until the season has come to experience HIS forgiveness then Tara will be in the same boat with the rest of us.
“Tara” Boes is actually Terrence E. Boes, III, the name that he gave the police in the video Jill linked to above.
It’s probably still her legal name. Most transgendered college-age kids are still the legal and physical process of transitioning.
The rates of regret are very high and even when they go back to living as a man, their bodies are mutilated and beyond being able to make them what they used to be.
This is one of those topics that it’s hard to get accurate statistics on because the subjects have to be visible in order to be included. If someone had a sex change when they were 25 and now they’re 50 and people would never guess they used to be the opposite sex, they’re not going to necessarily be on the radar of whoever’s doing the research. People who regret their surgeries might be very vocal about it, as would transgender activists.
Both issues are a denial of reality. These are the denial of the basic biological scientific principles that define the world around us, and ourselves. Calling yourself something you’re not doesn’t make it so. Calling another living human a parasite doesn’t make it some sort of foreign creature worthy of extermination. Calling yourself a woman when you have a penis and a Y chromosome doesn’t make you one.
Both sound like mental dysfunction to me.
yor broken, are you calling me a horse, or “filly” as in a young, frisky, attractive woman?
I hope it’s the latter!
Also, why were the men she was forced to spend the night with in jail naked? Just wondering!
So glad the Catholic Bishops are becoming more concerned about exorcism. So many of these outbursts and problems seem like they very well might have root issues having to deal with demonic oppression or possession. Pray for this man.
Thanks for the ideology so neatly wrapped up in science, xal. Unfortunately, invoking biology doesn’t somehow clear up life’s dilemmas. Understanding fetal development doesn’t resolve the question of whether an unborn human being is entitled to the use of a woman’s body. Also, in social science circles, it’s pretty commonly accepted that gender is largely a social construct, and that our gender expectations impact our understanding of biology. In society it is somehow more permissible to get corrective dental work, or a nose job, or take performance-enhancing steroids than to change one’s genitalia, because these other body modifications don’t disrupt the very gendered way in which we organize the world.
But please keep enlightening us about what exactly falls within the boundary of “normal.” It’s especially useful when you make generalizations based on your own experiences. Geez, I’m not gay, so why should anybody else feel that way????
I would think that people so keen on fetal development would have already learned about the hormones and fetal changes that affect gender compared to sex. It surprises me that so many of you think that this is a mental illness, instead of knowing and understanding the biology of a transgender person.
But you’re still all for being allowed to kill a transgender person while in the womb, right, KushieIsMoon? Even though they have their little sexual identities in utero?
Feeling your numbers dropping again today KM?
Xalisae wrote, in reply to KushielsMoon:
But you’re still all for being allowed to kill a transgender person while in the womb, right, KushieIsMoon? Even though they have their little sexual identities in utero?
(*tsk*) You pesky logic-addicted person, you… :)
Understanding fetal development doesn’t resolve the question of whether an unborn human being is entitled to the use of a woman’s body.
I still can’t get over the implication I hear in sentences like these. It’s as if that unborn child crawled up in there all by himself and just took over!
That unborn human being is entitled to “use” a woman’s body because that is called “mammalian reproduction.” It is a basic scientific fact that this is how mammals reproduce. It would just be no big deal to you, I suppose, if we were turtles who laid their eggs on the beach and just abandoned our children to fend for themselves against predators and in the ocean, would it? That way, there’d be no responsibility involved. No real connection. But see, we’re not reptiles. We’re mammals. We don’t work that way. And we are responsible for the offspring we create. People who try to deny it and warp it and twist it are only fooling themselves – they’re not fooling nature OR their own bodies.
A human child is not a squatter, and not a usurper of rights. A human child is a human child. A product of reproduction between a man and woman. Therefore, since reproduction is a normal, natural, and EXPECTED consequence of sexual relations, killing that child by force through abortion is the most unnatural thing you could possibly do.
Did you miss the bit when I explained that I have no qualms with being gay whatsoever? It makes very little sense, biologically, but you can say definitively “I am attracted to people of the same sex.” and yes, that is a fact. How do gender expectations affect our understanding of biology, exactly? Meiosis is meiosis, sweetheart, no matter what sort of genitals one wishes they had been born with.
And, I guess I’m nothing if not consistent. I was actually offered surgery for my facial birth defect when I was younger, and I turned it down. Once again, it’s all about getting comfy with the hand you’ve been dealt.
I would use the term ‘cunning’ rather than ‘smart and savvy’ Kel. And I actually think the media need to recover from the assault on them from her and her family rather than the other way around.
“Emotionally healthy and stable people do not tend to ….. have an emotional meltdown when confronted with that with which they disagree.” – hm, an interesting statement given what I sometimes see written here.
A fetus is entitled to “use” a woman’s body if planned, wanted, ‘invited’ or accepted. Nature has given us the ability to control this.
Kel, exactly! I can no more force a pregnancy than I can force gravity to stop or start pulling objects toward the earth. Pregnancy is a natural thing, and it occurs when the reproductive systems of both partners are functioning in a healthy manner. It is only the madness of abortion advocates that has attempted to turn the science of biology into the non-science-of-I -make-it-up -as -I -go- along.
A fetus is entitled to “use” a woman’s body if planned, wanted, ‘invited’ or accepted. Nature has given us the ability to control this.
Um, no. “Nature” did not give us the ability to “control” reproduction. Perhaps you should rephrase that. “Nature” has its own way of ending pregnancies through miscarriage. But “nature” giving us some forceps, an ultrasound machine, and a vacuum aspirator? Nope, I don’t think so. And “nature” didn’t give us those little pink pills or IUDs, either. Man, on the other hand, devised these things to try and “control” that which “Nature” designed or put forth.
If sperm enters the vaginal canal and an open cervix at a fertile time of a woman’s cycle, then it was “invited” in a biological sense. Period.
Nature made us human, nature gave us our intellect, nature enabled us to discover, create and build many things. Nature has taught us about science and physics. Nature has given us medical and medicinal abilities. Nature has given us contraceptives and abortion. Otherwise they wouldn’t exist.
“…reproduction is a normal, natural, and EXPECTED consequence of sexual relations” – not expected – possible, desired, wanted, unwanted, accepted, whatever – not expected.
If anyone is interested, here is an excellent article about sex-reassignment surgery written by a professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins: http://oldarchive.godspy.com/issues/Surgical-Sex-Sex-Change-operations-by-Paul-McHugh.cfm.html
“Having looked at the Reiner and Meyer studies, we in the Johns Hopkins Psychiatry Department eventually concluded that human sexual identity is mostly built into our constitution by the genes we inherit and the embryogenesis we undergo. Male hormones sexualize the brain and the mind. Sexual dysphoria—a sense of disquiet in one’s sexual role—naturally occurs amongst those rare males who are raised as females in an effort to correct an infantile genital structural problem. A seemingly similar disquiet can be socially induced in apparently constitutionally normal males, in association with (and presumably prompted by) serious behavioral aberrations, amongst which are conflicted homosexual orientations and the remarkable male deviation now called autogynephilia.”
Thank you, doctor. You put it more eloquently than this pathetically feeble mind could ever possibly fathom.
Cranium: “Nature has given us contraceptives and abortion. Otherwise they wouldn’t exist.”
By the same philosophy, “nature” has also given us nuclear bombs and the ability to slip someone a roofie.
Its also given us planes, trains and automobiles; poisons and sunscreen. What’s your point?
But God gave us Free Will.
phillymiss
November 19th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
yor broken, are you calling me a horse, or “filly” as in a young, frisky, attractive woman?
I hope it’s the latter!
Also, why were the men she was forced to spend the night with in jail naked? Just wondering!
===========================================================
Watched one too many John Wayne movies.
It was either filly or missy.
phillymiss
November 19th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
yor broken, are you calling me a horse, or “filly” as in a young, frisky, attractive woman?
I hope it’s the latter!
Also, why were the men she was forced to spend the night with in jail naked? Just wondering!
May you remain forever a young frisky and attractive woman.
No offense intended.
Who knows if Tara is being truthful.
If Tara was placed in the drunk tank [which would be my first guess, that is one way the police and corrections officers deal with unpleasant people, sexual orientation aside.] then the two fellow might have been skid row bums or crackheads and they may have lacked personal hygene. The jailers might have stripped them down to minimize the unpleasant aromas. Maybe they were so wasted they soiled themselves.
Praxedes
November 19th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
“But God gave us Free Will.”
I’m afraid that’s a concept that a moral relativist is ill-equipped to understand.
cranium November 19th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Nature made us human, nature gave us our intellect, nature enabled us to discover, create and build many things.
Nature has taught us about science and physics.
Nature has given us medical and medicinal abilities.
===========================================================
cranium absurdum,
me thinks you are confusing ‘nature’, with ‘evolution’.
According to humanist dogma, evolution gave us nature.
[I prefer my dogma over the humnaists. Been down their rabbit trail. It is either an endless circle or a dead end.]
While we can learn from nature, nature is not a teacher.
Nature is not in the business of building things, especially mechanical or electrical or electronic things.
The forces of nature can produce some awsome natural wonders but nature never made a wheel or fashioned a tool.
Man alone uses his intellect and curiosity to discover the secrets of nature.
Spotted owls and dolphins are satisfied to follow their instincts.
Some animals can be creative problem solvers if it will satisfy their hunger or urge to reproduce, but that is just about the end of their ingenuity.
Happy trails. Suggest you leaves some markers to make it easier to find your way back home or as indicator you are fetching a compass/going in circle.
Reading cranium’s posts makes me laugh.
May I note that Joan, KushielsMoon, cranium, Megan, and DD see no problem with determining in the womb if a fetus is transgendered and selectively aborting transgendered persons.
This has already been pointed out to KushieIsMoon. Her response? *CRICKETS*
Cranium: “Its also given us planes, trains and automobiles; poisons and sunscreen. What’s your point?”
That you’re suggesting that Nature gave us the ability to develop contraceptives and abortion techniques, and that this means we should avail ourselves of that ability. Your argument is a variation of “If [x] is so bad, why would Nature/God/science allow us to do it?” My response is that you could make this argument about nearly everything.
So, here we are 80 plus comments later and not one of the noble defenders of abortion has stepped up to condemn proabort violence. Surprise, surprise. Must be too much for them to take time out of their busy day hating on Bristol Palin and other women to speak against this kind of crap, much more important to defend the rights of drag queens while throwing actual women under the bus. Here’s a quote from the tranny’s myspace page: “I like doing illegal and just plain dangerous things” ~ Tara Boes, MySpace About me. Your silence speaks louder than your words, prochoice. We’ll simply assume that you condone violence, as long as said violence is directed against prolife. But we knew that already. Funny how moonbat and her pals wasted no time condeming Jill Stanek for this post on Twitter, but not a word against the perpetrator of the violence. Funny, but predictable. The apple never rots far from the tree.
If I were transgender and looking to get actively involved in the pro-life movement, most of the comments on this page would convince me that my fellow pro-lifers thought of me as a freak and would never truly welcome me as an equal ally.
Marauder, I feel that if someone is truly prolife, nothing will keep them from getting involved in the prolife movement.
The prolife focus is on other, not on self.
If I were an atheist and thinking of getting involved in the pro-life movement…oh wait, I was at one time.
I agree, Praxedes. You do what’s right because it’s right, not because everyone will love you if you do it.
Excellent post Jill and other prolifers. I sure am glad to have you back Xalisae. The trollers are leaking their “brains” out but we know the truth as Jill wrote “the apple never rots far from the tree”.
Hi Xalisae, I think I started coming here right before you took your hiatis. Such good things have been said about you here!
So glad to hear about the Wonderful changes in your life!
I know our resident athiest cran is just itching to get to know you better! Right cran? :)
Marauder, I feel that if someone is truly prolife, nothing will keep them from getting involved in the prolife movement.
Even if they’re a teenager? Even if their life might be extremely hard at the moment and they don’t know if they have the strength to deal with yet another set of people making disparaging comments about them? I’m sorry, but that’s kind of like saying, “We might be nasty neighbors and talk about how messed up people like you are and call you names, but if you really want to live in this neighborhood, nothing will keep you from living here.”
Xalisae, love you and all, but when you were an atheist I never saw you being subject to the level of derision I’m seeing here towards transgendered people. No one said you were mentally unstable or called you names.
If I were transgender and looking to get actively involved in the pro-life movement, most of the comments on this page would convince me that my fellow pro-lifers thought of me as a freak and would never truly welcome me as an equal ally.
Marauder, I still believe that if someone truly sees the humanity of the preborn, they will ignore what others think of them. Even as a teenager. Even as a GLBT. I have been around a lot of different groups and prolifers are the most welcoming that I have found. Many of them disagree with me about other topics but fighting for the humanity of the unborn is the glue that holds us together.
I became pregant before marriage. Did people judge me and believe I was a sinner? Absolutely. Did I think I was guilty of sin or mentally unstable by having sex before marriage? No. Do I now? Absolutely.
Do I have compassion for other sinners? Yes, because I am a HUGE sinner myself. Calling names is wrong but I don’t see where anyone called anyone nasty names here but maybe I missed some? I did see where Xalisae referred to her own mind as “pathetically feeble” though.
I don’t think we should have to change our beliefs about what constitutes sin and mental unstability in order to make everyone feel good and welcome. Some people believe we should do this with the proaborts as well. Their sins and mental instability are affecting the preborn and we have to weigh whether we want to compromise with them or whether we want what is best for their souls and best for our preborn brothers and sisters. I can’t compromise with the lives and souls of others.
Some of us have been judged and called names. Many of us have been ostrasized and oppressed in our homes, communities and jobs (the vast majority of women alone can most likely relate!).
I personally believe that the oppressed eventually make the strongest prolifers. Prolifers are all freaks and sinners in one way or another. I think that is why some of us want to protect the preborn so much. We can relate to being oppressed and unwanted.
Thanks Jill and mods for welcoming all here and not blocking anyone unless they are over the top. I know I hover near the line at times and I appreciate your continued patience with a sinner like me.
I hope and pray that all prolifers feel welcome here.
I hope I didn’t offend any prolifers by calling you freaks. But you know we are! (:
Calling names is wrong but I don’t see where anyone called anyone nasty names here but maybe I missed some?
“Tranny” (as said by Jill, the non-Stanek one) is generally considered an insulting term. If someone wants to argue “it’s just short for transgender,” consider that “spic” is “just short for Hispanic”.
GLBT issues definitely get treated as a “greater sin” around here by a lot of people. I’ve never seen anyone here say they had sex out of marriage and get subjected to a lecture about what a sinner they are because God made sex for marriage and they went against the will of God and blah blah blah. I’ve never seen anyone berate atheists for rejecting God or Jews for rejecting Jesus. If Tara Boes had been the head of a Jewish organization on campus, or vandalized a pro-life display while wearing a Star of David necklace, would we be seeing comments about how wrong and sinful it is to be Jewish? I don’t think so. Probably comments about how ironic it is that she would be for abortion, given how many Jewish people were killed in the Holocaust, but nothing along the lines of, “This just shows how flawed and in need of salvation the Jews truly are. Pray that this poor young Jewish woman sees the Truth of Christ and leaves Judaism behind.”
If people want to think GLBT stuff is a sin, fine. Go ahead, free country. But I think that if people can disagree about who God is, or whether there is a God, and not bring that up all the time on this site, we can disagree about GLBT stuff and not bring that up all the time. Just the amount of time people here spend saying that homosexuality is a sin indicates that it seems to be a greater sin in their minds than even not believing in God.
I don’t think they’re freaks. I think they’re people with problems, which we all have, that could use some help, and that was backed up by factual data and research with another article by an expert in the field. It’s not like this is baseless name-calling.
I’ve never seen anyone here say they had sex out of marriage and get subjected to a lecture about what a sinner they are because God made sex for marriage
I disagree Marauder. Many of us tried to talk with (lecture if you prefer) Ashley about sex outside of marriage but were met with anger and denial. Our society is now quite immune to sex outside of marriage because good-intentioned people were deemed to be haters if they had an opinion against it. Some of us see the same thing happening with other sins.
I believe sex outside of marriage is a sin. Is it a greater sin than others? I don’t know. I try not to rank sins. I do know that sex outside of marriage has led me and many others into more sins. GLBT issue do surround issues of sexuality so there are correlations to be made.
I respect your beliefs Marauder and apologize if I come off too strong here. I hope and pray all prolifers feel welcome here.
Many of us tried to talk with (lecture if you prefer) Ashley about sex outside of marriage but were met with anger and denial.
That was “Ashley, it would be good if you would save sex for marriage because it’ll bring you fewer problems and that’s how God intended sex to be.” Not “Ashley, you are a sinner and need to repent your pre-marital sex because you are disobeying the will of God.” Totally different tone, even if it didn’t seem to make a differnce to her.
You guys are okay, Praxedes and Xalisae. :)
marauder-blah blah bling bling-lots of babble and still no answer from prochoice-do you condone violence against prolifers as long as it supports the abortion agenda? lots of deflection and lecturing/posturing from you, and still no answer. Yes or no. It wasn’t a trick question. Cut the Alinsky tactics/demonizing and derailing and answer, since none of your proabort pals seems able to manage it.
“Tranny” (as said by Jill, the non-Stanek one) is generally considered an insulting term.
Enlighten me here, please. Is the term “queer” also considered an insult? Because it sure as heck USED to be, and yet I’ve seen people here claim “I have friends who are queers.” Not all of us are up on the “what’s no longer offensive/what IS offensive today” lists.
Jill, are you calling Marauder a pro-abort? I’m really confused.
GLBT issues definitely get treated as a “greater sin” around here by a lot of people. I’ve never seen anyone here say they had sex out of marriage and get subjected to a lecture about what a sinner they are because God made sex for marriage and they went against the will of God and blah blah blah.
It may get treated differently by some, but really, sexual sin is sexual sin. I know you don’t believe there’s anything wrong with bisexuality/transgender/homosexuality, Marauder.
Many people here had sex outside of marriage (and we’re ALL sinners). But here’s the thing: many of those who DID are admitting to their own sin. They accept that their sexual behavior outside the biblical commands was wrong and sinful. But today it’s just not “PC” to say “Hey, if you have bisexual sex, you’re committing a sin” just like the person who has sex outside of marriage.
When we began to create entire personas and identities around our sexual behaviors, I think there was a problem. Our sexual preferences (or “orientation” if you prefer) do not – or SHOULD not – define our identities.
Marauder-I don’t feel a burning need to defend deviants. Clearly the focus here is on being politically correct, not making waves, and God forbid we should offend anyone. It’s that kind of pandering to be politically correct that keeps abortion legal. So sorry I offended your champion-of-gay-rights sensiblities. Knock yourself out. I’m not going to help you pimp for deviants, no matter how well intentioned you may be. All you do by defending them is perpetuate ther outrageous behavior. Personally, I’m sick of being beat over the head by radical homosexuals and their agendas and then being demonized when I push back. I won’t be back to comment here. See ya.
No Janet, its a concept that relies on faith in something non-evidential. We all have an intrinsic free will, its a matter of how we use it.
“Nature is not in the business of building things, especially mechanical or electrical or electronic things” did you not actually read what I wrote yor bro ken? – ‘Nature made us human, nature gave us our intellect, nature enabled us to discover, create and build many things.’or was it too hard to comprehend?
No bmmg39, my argument isn’t that “If [x] is so bad, why would Nature/God/science allow us to do it?” at all. Abortion and contraception are not bad.
So Jill, did you not read my “This person obviously has issues and should be either charged with assault or provided with mental health treatment (not be being transgender).” comment?
Jill and Marauder are both pro-lifers whom I respect and admire for their beliefs. I truly hope that neither of them leaves.
I agree that some people seem to have more vitriol for transgendered persons than for other types of sin. Some of the things said did make me cringe. I don’t think that those who simply pointed out research indicating that surgery did not help transsexuals psychologically have been disrespectful, though–the articles were interesting and enlightening. I think that were a transgendered prolife person to come to this site, they would find the prolifers here accepting, but those of us who believe it is wrong to live as a person of the opposite sex or have medically unnecessary surgeries on parts of one’s body might not just shut up about it. I disagree that infidels and fornicators always get kid glove treatments. And DD certainly seems to think we’re all raving antiSemites. I think everyone who claims to be an atheist has been told at least once they should repent and accept Christ, whether prolife or prochoice. And I think they should! Even the Catholics and evangelicals here, though we have much in common including our main cause, have occasionally been at odds. I have seen comments from members of those groups that felt the site was not welcoming enough of them–on both sides.
There is also a difference between saying “I used to do X” and “I do X.” Those who are currently engaging in premarital sex might be told they should not, and it’s a sin. But those who used to and don’t anymore are not reprimanded for something they used to do; that’d be counterproductive, unless they are saying, I used to, I’d do it again, and I think everyone who can should do it. It’s like the difference between the pro-aborts who have had abortions, and the pro-lifers who have had abortions. We aren’t going to beat up on Praxedes for having sex before marriage for the same reason we won’t try to make Carla regret killing Aubrey. It’s over, they’ve repented, they’re forgiving, they are encouraging others not to repeat their mistakes. I suspect that the treatment an ex-gay would receive from those here who believe homosexual acts are wrong would be similar.
A number of different views are represented here, and those of us who are pro-life have common cause in preventing and criminalizing the murder of children. The diversity of the movement is its strength. And trust me, if it is discovered that becoming gay or bi or transgendered/transsexual can be tested for in the womb, the GLBT folk will become our allies, at least when it comes to GLBT babies.
We are not always going to get along, but I hope we can usually be polite and respectful to those who are doing likewise.
Cranium: “No bmmg39, my argument isn’t that ‘If [x] is so bad, why would Nature/God/science allow us to do it?’ at all. Abortion and contraception are not bad.”
Yes, in your opinion, prematurely ending the life of an unborn child is not bad, which is why you made your Nature argument.
But today it’s just not “PC” to say “Hey, if you have bisexual sex, you’re committing a sin” just like the person who has sex outside of marriage.
What are you defining as “bisexual sex”? I have a boyfriend, I’ve never had a girlfriend, and I don’t comment one way or the other about whether we have sex or not.
Jill, you’re not showing a “love the sinner, hate the sin” attitude here. Calling people “trannies” because you think wanting a sex change is a sin is on the same level as calling promiscuous women sluts, whores, or hookers. It doesn’t communicate, “I love them as my fellow children of God but I disapprove of their behavior.” And claiming I’m somehow a pro-choicer because we disagree about GLBT issues is ridiculous. If I were pro-choice, I sure as heck wouldn’t have spent years around here arguing that every human being has a right to life. Years. You can look it up if you want.
A number of different views are represented here, and those of us who are pro-life have common cause in preventing and criminalizing the murder of children. The diversity of the movement is its strength.
Thank you. I’ve spent months now arguing that every time we get into “why are people gay”/”is being gay a sin”/”what does the Bible say about being gay”, we’re all saying the same things over and over again to no avail. No one’s mind is changing. I’d be willing to drop the whole thing if Jill (Stanek) would as well. If she can come up with something substantial to show that the very essence of GLBT rights is intrinsically linked to the very essence of pro-choice beliefs, I’d like to see it. I’m not seeing it. For every “GLBT pro-choicer does something obnoxious” story she comes up with, I could find a “GLBT pro-lifer does something useful” story.
What are you defining as “bisexual sex”?
What do you THINK I’m defining as bisexual sex, Marauder? is that a serious question? If you have bisexual feelings or attractions, but you do not have sex with both men and women, are you sinning? Not unless you’re lusting, no. And I find it odd to call oneself bisexual on the basis of an “attraction” which one has never acted upon. It goes back to my redefining ourselves based on who we have sex with. It’s beyond strange to do that, and yet we now have people claiming because they are men having sex with men, or women sleeping with women, they are akin to people born a certain race.
For every “GLBT pro-choicer does something obnoxious” story she comes up with, I could find a “GLBT pro-lifer does something useful” story.
Great. Then share it here. But know that Jill is a Christian, bible-believing pro-lifer, so it’s not going to be out of the norm to see some posts based on her biblical values.
What do you THINK I’m defining as bisexual sex, Marauder? is that a serious question?
Yeah, it is. If a bisexual man and a bisexual woman have sex together, is that bisexual sex in your mind? Or do three people have to be involved? We seem to disagree about what “bisexual” means, so your idea of “bisexual sex” is anyone’s guess in my mind.
And I find it odd to call oneself bisexual on the basis of an “attraction” which one has never acted upon.
Thirteen-year-old girls who have never been kissed and swoon and giggle over Twilight hunks know they’re attracted to guys, right? A friend of mine never went on a date until college. Does that mean she had no sexuality until then?
What’s with “attraction” in quotation marks?
It goes back to my redefining ourselves based on who we have sex with.
“Bisexual” means “attracted to both men and women.”
It’s beyond strange to do that, and yet we now have people claiming because they are men having sex with men, or women sleeping with women, they are akin to people born a certain race.
I never said anything about being akin to people of a certain race. If someone did, take it up with them, not me.
But know that Jill is a Christian, bible-believing pro-lifer, so it’s not going to be out of the norm to see some posts based on her biblical values.
And as long as it sticks to either a religious belief or something provable, that’s fine with me. It’s acting as though something is provable when it’s not that bothers me.
No, a bisexual man with a bisexual woman isn’t what I’d call that. I’d call that heterosexual sex. If, however, you’re swinging back and forth from male partner to female partner, I’d say that yes, you *could* say you’re having bisexual sex, though it makes more sense to me to say you had heterosexual sex with the man and homosexual sex with the woman. The whole bisexual thing is weird to me. Kinda makes less sense to me than homosexuality, if you want to know the truth.
To me, if you aren’t acting on your impulses, to classify yourself by those terms just seems like a way to try and define yourself as some special class of person. I don’t go around calling myself a “heterosexual.” I have only had heterosexual sex. Therefore, I am heterosexual! Big whoop. Grant me protected status! ;)
Sorry, sometimes I use quotation marks when I try to emphasize something. I should have italicized instead.
Are you “bisexual” if you’re a female and you’ve only had sexual encounters with men? Or are you a bisexual who only participates in heterosexual sex? See, it’s just confusing. We’ve come up with handy-dandy new ways to classify people based on who they’re with. Is Anne Heche a lesbian? Or is she now bisexual? Does it depend on who you’re sleeping with as to what you call yourself? I think that’s the problem. Defining ourselves based on who we’re attracted to by coming up with special terms for it.
I never said anything about being akin to people of a certain race. If someone did, take it up with them, not me.
But why not, Marauder? If people are “born that way” then aren’t they, in your opinion, just like people who are born a certain race?
And as long as it sticks to either a religious belief or something provable, that’s fine with me. It’s acting as though something is provable when it’s not that bothers me.
Acting as if homosexuality is genetic and cannot be changed bothers many of us. Perhaps we could stick to something provable there, too, while we’re lobbying to have protected status for our sexual behaviors and attractions, hmm?
Does it depend on who you’re sleeping with as to what you call yourself? I think that’s the problem. Defining ourselves based on who we’re attracted to by coming up with special terms for it.
Sexual orientation is about attraction.
Acting as if homosexuality is genetic and cannot be changed bothers many of us. Perhaps we could stick to something provable there, too, while we’re lobbying to have protected status for our sexual behaviors and attractions, hmm?
I don’t claim to know exactly why people are gay, bisexual, or transgendered. I do know from personal experience that it isn’t a choice. You can choose who you have sex with, but you can’t choose who you’re attracted to, or if you feel as though you’re meant to be the opposite sex.
I feel as though I was meant to be a millionaire. I’m going to quit my job and buy a yacht. 9_9
“feel as though you’re meant to be” is not “IS“. These people need to get over it and stop trying to be something they’re not.
Still cool with the gay/lesbian/bi thing though. THAT I can understand. A gay friend and I were talking about sexuality and gender roles one day. The guy I was with at the time was rather feminine, and I have rather masculine tendencies. My friend had always been rather feminine-leaning, and was currently with a guy that was pretty macho. My friend had actually had a crush on me when he was in high school, and we both arrived at the conclusion that the gender of who you’re with can sometimes be secondary to attraction, and finding the right balance of masculine/feminine in the relationship’s dynamic tends to be paramount. So really, I think sometimes it’s just a roll of the dice. Just a theory.