Video: Pro-life activists crash NARAL’s “holiday” party for young leaders in DC
UPDATE, 12/23, 3p: YouTube has now removed the 2nd video, but it has been made available at Eyeblast. Also see it below…
UPDATE 12/21, 6:10a: YouTube removed the 1st video, but it’s up again here.
12/13, 3:08p: Hey, the invite was published on the web and didn’t specify party goers had to be pro-abortion.
So 3 members of Randall Terry’s group Insurrecta Nex got wind of this “holiday” abortion celebration…
… and decided to spread “holiday” cheer to abortion proponents by their presence.
The creepiest moment came before the trio even exited the elevator. They tell me the electricity and lights shut down, and they had to pry the door open. As the Church Lady used to say, Could it be… satan?
They told me they milled around for a time, waiting to sign the abortionists’ “holiday” greeting cards until everyone else had, adding their own special notes to the baby killers.
It was only at this point that their cover was blown. Pro-aborts started questioning their allegiance to prenatal suctioning and dissecting, and that’s when the guys turned on the video camera while tossing little 12-week fetal models (sample right) on the table. We pick up the story here with the group’s entertaining but instructional YouTube video…
I’m hopeful the party lost its pizazz while some of those young minds were given pause to reconsider, particularly the person(s) tasked with removing (quickly, I’m sure) the babies off their festive table.
No justice, no peace.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
I love the snarky pro-abort in the red sweater “There was nothing peaceful about what you just did.” Oh honey. Get a clue. The pro-aborts are the ones who are not peaceful. Tearing up signs, removing cross displays, screaming, spitting, shooting old pro-life men.
Love what they did. Especially the fetal models. Why are there still people defending abortion in this day and age? I can never wrap my mind around it. Science has so clearly proven the humanity of the unborn and yet there are still blood thirsty individuals who seem to CRAVE it. So much so that they use this time of year that celebrates the unplanned pregnancy and birth of a Son to an unwed teenaged mother in poverty to grovel for donations to kill unplanned children to unwed teenaged mothers in poverty. Boggles the mind.
It would have been a more interesting video if they’d just kept mingling at the party and talked the pro-life talk rather than setting a sarcastic tone on the greeting card. What, then, would have been the justification of tossing them out other than having a different opinion?
Way to go guys!
Prolife males are Real Men!
Cranky Catholic
December 13th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
It would have been a more interesting video if they’d just kept mingling at the party and talked the pro-life talk rather than setting a sarcastic tone on the greeting card. What, then, would have been the justification of tossing them out other than having a different opinion?
Cranky,
Yeah, I’m with you on that. I think if they had mingled and talked maybe that would’ve gotten them further. The way it was done seems like it would be way too easy for the people there to have just dismissed them as “crazy”. I mean they probably would’ve dismissed them as “crazy” anyway, but they would’ve had less of a way to throw them out if they hadn’t written what they did on the cards.
But you know pretty dang gutsy they went and did that and yeah, we have to take action, but we have to figure out what the BEST action is.
So you folks would be OK with a bunch of NARAL members doing the same thing at a pro-life meeting?
What’s the point of being undercover?
What’s so hard about showing up at a pro-abort mixer and introducing yourself saying, “Hi. I’m pro-life.”?
All I get from this is, “Hey. Look at us. We’re pro-life and kinda jerks about it, too.”
DD
December 13th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
So you folks would be OK with a bunch of NARAL members doing the same thing at a pro-life meeting?
Well it depends on what they do there just as it depended on what pro-lifers do wherever they go. I thought the sarcasm was counter-productive, and I think there are better ways of going about doing the same thing, but that’s a matter of opinion.
Even if the pro-choicers crashed our events, even if they saw with their own eyes that we are not anti-women, that we are not conspiring to enslave women, that we are not hatching plans to force pregnancies, even if… pro-choicers are still going to stick to their lies, lies, lies.
I would welcome some pro-choicers at our events, but I have my doubts as to how much they could learn from the experience.
Keep it classy.
DD – Five years ago or so a few pro-abort bloggers attended the pro-life bloggers briefing in Washington. It was fine with me. Exposure to the truth can only help. But they just came that one time.
Pro-aborts don’t typically invest the energy.
For instance, not many a pro-abort event goes by without pro-lifers protesting, but in all of the hundreds of pro-life banquets I’ve attended, only one was ever protested by a very small group that didn’t stay long.
And not many an abortion clinic isn’t picketed, but only a handful of pregnancy care centers ever are. You don’t have the volume of dedicated people on the streets.
So you folks would be OK with a bunch of NARAL members doing the same thing at a pro-life meeting? I’d personally have no problem with NARAL members stopping in at a prolife meeting, talking about Jesus and the humanity of the unborn and putting more plastic babies on the tables. Actually I would give them more to take along with them when they leave.
Seriously though, these men are drawing more attention to the humanity of the unborn. They did not swear or scream. They were not abusive or violent. They did SOMETHING. They spoke from their hearts. While we are all debating what the best actions to take are, more children are dying. I did not see these young men as crazy. I see having a party to celebrate killing preborn children as crazy.
As far as I am concerned we need MANY, MANY more of these young, courageous prolife men speaking out. I would have loved for these guys to show up when I was being pressured by cowardly proaborts to “get rid of” two of my children.
These guys aren’t perfect. No prolifer is. But they are good men willing to speak up for women and children. Thank you prolife men!
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ” – Edmund Burke
Even if the pro-choicers crashed our events, even if they saw with their own eyes that we are not anti-women, that we are not conspiring to enslave women, that we are not hatching plans to force pregnancies, even if… pro-choicers are still going to stick to their lies, lies, lies.
Sadly, I agree.
Praxedes, that is one of my favorite quotes!
There is something disturbing about a man saying the phrase “domestic violence” in a sarcastic tone. Does not communicate “pro woman.”
The tone of this video bothers me.
Whether the fetus is “human” or not and whether life begins at conception are irrelevant and immaterial. You can say these things until you are blue in the face but this is not going to stop women from having abortions.
Do you think that a desperately poor woman who is far to poor to support a child(and please don’t give me the same old B.S. about adoption) cares whether the fetus she is carrying is human and that life supposedly begins at conception? Of course not.
She doesn’t not want to bring a child into the world who is doomed to abject poverty,malnutrition,lack of education and opportunity. To try to bring a child or children up in such terrible adverse conditions is something no woman wants to do. That’s why abortions happen,legal or not. It’s a horribly painful experience for a woman to see her child growing up this way. Until we do more to aleviate poverty,abortion will remain common .
YOU have taken it upon yourself to speak for poor women, Robert?? You know what it’s like to be a poor pregnant woman raising poor children in poverty??
And WHERE in the world are the husbands and fathers in your pathetic poverty scenarios?? Maybe they could man up a tad??
Maybe instead of hating poor pregnant women so much you could offer to help them Robert? All you have ever offered “the poor pregnant women” is killing. That is the best you’ve got?? For all of the living poor women and children is a machine gun going to do the trick for you? After all, they are miserable and you would only be putting them all out of their misery. You would be a hero!!! In your own mind.
Your hatred and complete disdain of poor women and their children sickens me. Put a sock in it.
There is something disturbing about a man saying the phrase “domestic violence” in a sarcastic tone. Does not communicate “pro woman.”
TNS, After re-watching this, I can see how this comment could be misconstrued and by itself, it would certainly be promoting domestic violence. However, in the context of everything else in the video, I didn’t see his sarcasm as supporting domestic violence at all. He is trying to point out that proaborts use the fact that domestic violence exists as a reason to kill others.
Kinda like rationalizing killing the child who is in his room while one of his siblings is smacking his other sibling.
“You don’t have the volume of dedicated people on the streets”
We prefer to stay off the streets and go into the courtrooms. Roe – still in place. Pro-choice states still pro-choice.
“All you have ever offered “the poor pregnant women” is killing”
Back to the same circuitious argument but the reality is that most poor women who get abortions, do so of their own free will. That you claim that all women are coerced into abortions negates free will which, as I recall, is a core component of Christianity. While I admit that some women are pressured, to say that all of them are is to say that they are just simple children who don’t know what’s best for them. Paternalistic at best; misogynistic at worst. “Pro-life” all the way.
My once blue state is now red. :)
You prefer to have Supreme Court justices thwart the will of the people.
Praxedes, I didn’t say it was promoting domestic violence. I am saying it is disturbing to hear an issue like that, in whatever context, not taken seriously, especially by a man. FYI: DDCADV is the District Defense Coalition Against Domestic Violence, for which NARAL VA was collecting donations.
And, I find it offensive when you compare “smacking your little sister” to domestic violence. Pretty insensitive to survivors of DV.
“You prefer to have Supreme Court justices thwart the will of the people”
If it were up to the “will of the people,” interracial marriages might still be illegal. SCOTUS ruled on that. Right? And there are still solidly blue states where abortion is just another surgical procedure. Those states are able to be accessed from the red states except for those women who don’t have the money or the means to get there – in which case, they’re doing they’re patriotic, and god given duty to add to the poor population of their given red states.
Oh, and I forgot – “Brown v Board of Education”
Should the “will of the people” have been followed re desegregation of public schools?
Carla. Wisonsin is now red, as you say. But if those women in liberal Madison stay in Wisconsin, after graduation, and find their reproductive freedoms curtailed, you don’t honestly feel that they’ll just surrender themselves to their womanly duties, do you?
“Pretty insensitive to survivors of DV.”
TNS, I can see your point that his comment downplays the seriousness of domestic violence and if possible it should be taken out.
I just sent a Christmas check out today to the DV group that I called ten years ago who was instrumental in helping me leave my very violent husband. ALL family violence is wrong including siblings hitting one another and I’m sorry if my comparison seems insensitive to you.
Do you believe the best choice for pregnant women in violent relationships is to abort?
“Whether the fetus is “human” or not and whether life begins at conception are irrelevant and immaterial. You can say these things until you are blue in the face but this is not going to stop women from having abortions.”
Whether the female is “human” or not is irrelevant and immaterial. You can say these things until you are blue in the face but this is not going to stop men from raping women.
See how your argument doesn’t work at all? How it addresses nothing? Granted, it is a nice bait and switch where you answer the question in a completely different context, but it simply does not address the main argument pro-lifers make.
“Do you think that a desperately poor woman who is far to poor to support a child(and please don’t give me the same old B.S. about adoption) cares whether the fetus she is carrying is human and that life supposedly begins at conception?”
Um, yes. I think most people actually have a moral compass and if they knew that their actions were killing a human being, they would not do it. Again, if your argument proves anything, it proves too much. Suppose we’re talking about born children and whether or not to allow infanticide before 1 month outside teh womb. Would you accept your argument in favor of infanticide up to one month? Because there is NOTHING about your argument that is restricted only to abortion. It works just as well for born babies too.
“She doesn’t not want to bring a child into the world who is doomed to abject poverty,malnutrition,lack of education and opportunity. To try to bring a child or children up in such terrible adverse conditions is something no woman wants to do.”
Okay, more evidence for why we should allow infanticide. The women will only REALLy know what she is getting herself into once she actually has teh baby and has to take care of it. So why shouldn’t she be allowed to kill the baby up to one month if she is finding the new baby to difficult because of abject poverty, malnutrition, etc. etc. all these adjectives etc.
“It’s a horribly painful experience for a woman to see her child growing up this way.”
Great! Kill teh child when things get tough. Husband loses his job right before the kid is about to go to private school? Kill teh kid! Wouldn’t want to see teh child grow up without a private school education.
“Until we do more to aleviate poverty,abortion will remain common .”
So for the 100^100th time Robert, this fact is compteley inconsequential to whether or not abortion should be legal or not. Is there ANYTHING that is legal that we can’t replace that statement with taht would make it absurd? Seriously, everyday you post this, people give you teh counter-example of rape, murder, theft, jaywalking, arson, plagiarism, treason- all these things are still common, yet we have enough common sense to realize that they should be made illegal because they are EVIL and cannot be tolerated in civil society even though people will do them. Why in teh world is abortion the only exception to killing an innocent human being?
“Why in teh world is abortion the only exception to killing an innocent human being?”
Bobby,
Because there is a huge industry dedicated to abortion. Big abortion is BIG MONEY.
DD,
I won’t speculate on what liberal women will do in my state with their duties.
I will tell you that when prolife legislation comes up…and it will…..I will be there to testify.
I was not talking about interracial marriages or Brown vs The Board of Education.
The will of the people could be heard if every state in this nation would vote on the legality of abortion. I WANT MY SAY! I want to vote to make abortion illegal again.
Like way back in the dark ages of 1972.
Oh and you asked a question about abortion stories on Youtube on a different thread. My abortion story is on youtube. Search Abortion and Forgiveness. I have been called a liar. But I will still keep telling my story. Only those that truly regret it and want to spare others the pain of abortion and offer abortion recovery tell their stories. Doesn’t really matter if you doubt an abortion story of regret though does it?
Those that want to share the joy of abortion might make a video too I suppose. Telling how great it was and how it was the best decision of their lives and how happy they are now.
PS
My comment was directed specifically to Robert and his “poor pregnant women” ranting.
Why are you shoving Christianity down my throat??
I was coerced into an abortion I didn’t want.
So no need to go there with me.
Tell it Carla! Thank you for being that voice for the voiceless! I seem to always fist-pump when you post on here.
Bobby, can you believe Robert? The fact that he says it is irrelevant when life begins. Makes my blood run cold. So Robert you are admitting that you will kill anyone who gets in your way or hinders your life in any way, shape or form. Whether they are a fellow human being means nothing to you. So you’ve just admitted that you are pro cold-blooded murder. Thank you for being so honest. Its scary, but honest.
RRRAAAWWWRRR!!
:)
“So you folks would be OK with a bunch of NARAL members doing the same thing at a pro-life meeting?”
Yes, I would be okay with that. The reason that pro-aborts are not showing up at pro-life meetings is because we (pro-lifers) have not been a threat. Once the demons come out of their holes and show up at our events, we will know that they see us as a threat.
I was there, and believe me, there was no sarcasm at the “Christmas party”, we meant everything we said.
Brandolyn says:
The tone of this video bothers me.
So the tone of this event bothers you? Did you sense a tone of urgency in the men’s voices? Are babies worth a sense of urgency? Sure, one might prefer a more “pleasant, conversational tone.”
…but what was Jesus’ tone when he kicked the money-changers out of the temple? Was it a calm quiet, respectful, gentle tone? And why did Jesus make a whip to overturn their tables? These three guys didn’t even try to literally overturn the table at that NARAL holiday party.
If you were to find a group of Nazis in a room, would you engage them in a quiet gentle tone? And if so, do you think that would communicate the urgency of stopping the Jews being murdered by the trainload?
The tone must respect the babies being murdered. The tone must reflect the fact that we’re talking about murder. Think about it.
NARAL hosting a Christmas party? The plastic 12 week baby dolls were a nice touch.
The video is PRICELESS!!! More of us should be so bold.
These deceived individuals in NARAL have eternal souls in mortal danger
and now that they’ve heard the truth, they can no longer plead innocence!
Why so cranky, Cranky?
@Gary, the tone must also respect the people whose souls are at risk. Yes, we need to do what we can to save the children, but what about the souls of those who are so clearly lost? If we can reach them for Jesus, doesn’t it follow that the babies would be saved also? If we can show them the love and compassion of Christ, build a relationship with them, interact with them and let Jesus live through us, then won’t their hearts be changed? What I saw in this video was three men who were possibly poking fun at the situation by wearing hat and sunglasses (I didn’t understand that at all and it seemed to me to be a failed attempt at humor). Then, I saw them yelling at people over music. I saw no attempt to interact with them, but perhaps that was edited out. The tone of the video, from my perspective, was we are going into the enemy’s camp and mess with them. That’s how it seemed to me. The problem with that is the ‘enemy’ in this case were the people and not the spirit behind this horrible practice of abortion. Please don’t come at me with an ‘any means necessary’ argument for saving the unborn because I don’t buy it. If I were in a room of Nazi’s I would plead for the lives of the Jews and I would fall on my knees and pray for God to move in the hearts of the Nazi’s. I’m not sure what is gained by losing compassion for them and demonizing them. I believe when pro-lifers do things like this video we do little for our cause and embolden the cause against us. Just my opinion, however.
Bobby: If an adult took control of one of your organs–say your liver–and used it without your permission, would you call him innocent? Would you object to a person doing whatever was in their power to put an end to such a blatant disregard of their human rights?
Now, I’m not going to go so far as to say a fetus is guilty of anything, and abortion often touches on other areas of social concern, but under no other circumstances would a person be deprived of the right to determine what happens to their own body.
Jayn,
I have been pregnant with little boys. That was not my penis. As a woman, I don’t have a penis. Not my penis, not my body.
@Carla: Excellent point! I get so frustrated when people argue the right of the woman to have dominion over her body when they fail to recognize that right of the child.
@Jayn: I’m curious of your thoughts on the testimony of many post-abortive women who claim the procedure had irrevocable damage to their bodies. Also, what is your opinion on whether or not there should be regulation on the abortion industry because of the psychological affects abortion causes these women? Should abortionists provide after-care for the women? And if tax dollars are used to support abortion (as in the case with Planned Parenthood), shouldn’t some of that money allocated be used for after-care? I’m genuinely curious on your opinion…
She doesn’t not want to bring a child into the world who is doomed to abject poverty,malnutrition,lack of education and opportunity. To try to bring a child or children up in such terrible adverse conditions is something no woman wants to do.”
Once again you’re fixated on poor women. Why?
Hi Jayne.
Right, I understand. I would LOVE if Robert would ever answer a post with a comment like you did- one that actually does not beg the question and is an argument that ADDRESSES the claim that the unborn is human or that they do not have a “right to use one’s body.” Anyway, kudos to you. But alas…
“If an adult took control of one of your organs–say your liver–and used it without your permission, would you call him innocent? ”
No.
“Would you object to a person doing whatever was in their power to put an end to such a blatant disregard of their human rights?”
Yes. There are certain means which would be permissible to stop said injustice. For example, if someone was taking me away to use my organ, I would not be justified to kill him if I could avoid doing that (though it sometimes is the only means).
“Now, I’m not going to go so far as to say a fetus is guilty of anything, and abortion often touches on other areas of social concern, but under no other circumstances would a person be deprived of the right to determine what happens to their own body.”
So here is the problem I see with this. You have compared someone commandeering an organ of mine against pregnancy. In the order of nature, my kidney “belongs” in my body. In terms of what it-means to be my kidney, it is something that belongs in my body. An embryo similarly belongs inside a woman’s body. That it where it should be in that stage of life according to the order of nature. We should not kill that human being precisely because that is where that human being should be. This is not the case when we talk about taking someone’s organs.
The other problem with the idea of being able to “have absolute control” over one’s body leads to seemingly unacceptable situations. Consider the following thought experiment. In some parts of Africa, the practice of female genital mutilation (FGM) is quite rampant. Sometimes those parents who practice it on their children come over to the US and would like to have it done on their newborn daughters. Of course, this is a horrific and brutal act of mutilation, as I am sure many pro-choice feminists would agree. There should be no tolerance for FGM in our civilized society.
However, there is a compromise. Since the unborn in the woman’s womb have no rights at all, as long as the mother wished, she could (hypothetically) have her unborn daughter’s genitals mutilated while teh daughter was still INSIDE her mother. Though we probably don’t have the science behind doing this down yet, I’m sure we could figure it out. It would probably be easiest to do right before birth, the time at which the fetus gains rights. Thus, since the fetus has no rights, there should be no moral qualms about mutilating a female fetus’s genital while it is still in teh womb.
Does that make sense? Would you support in utero FGM? Because if a woman does have a right to determine what happens to her body in such an absolute sense so that she can kill a human being who belongs there according to what it is, then it seems that we should allow the mutilation of the unborn’s genitals while inside the womb.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but are there not SERVICES that help the poor? Are there not OPPORTUNITIES for them to get help? Do we not have thousands of soup kitchens, outreaches, ministries, and food shelves that are dedicated to helping the poor?
Also, there are several different types of poor as I see it. There are those that are poor because they refuse to work. There are those that are poor but still manage to hold down jobs, keep food on the table, clothe their children and provide basic necessities. There are others who are in a season of unemployment and continue to search for work while doing the best they can to make ends meet.
My family has been on food stamps and Badgercare. There were two Christmas’ that I remember that we reached out to a local ministry that adopted our family and purchased presents for us as we could not afford them. I have been pregnant twice when my husband was laid off. We didn’t know where we were going to deliver our youngest. I found my way to Catholic Charities. Our church at one time paid our mortgage and utilities for a few months while my husband continued to look for a job. This was all a mere 6 years ago.
All that to say, I get completely offended with all of this Robert talk of poor pregnant women being offered abortion. As though that changes things for the better.
Women deserve better than abortion.
Brandolyn and Jayn,
Here is my abortion story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2jJzXiRYd0
@Carla, thank you so much for sharing your story. I have sat and listened to many, many post-abortive women tell their stories and each time I am amazed by the strength of women like you. I believe wholeheartedly that from your pain and experience freedom from the bondage of abortion will come to us all. You will be abundantly blessed for your courage to speak out against this horrible practice. I thank God for you, Carla, and the post-abortive women who speak about this once-thought unforgivable sin. The amazing thing about this is we get to learn just how deep and just how wide God’s love for us is! Praise the Lord for his mercy and grace toward us!
I have two dear friends who have spoken about abortion. Their videos are here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jt_b973TuM
and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQdWTRXrxYc
We recorded these about a year ago and our hope was that young girls who were abortion-minded would find these and listen to them. It is still our hope. God bless you. You are an amazing woman.
@Praexes, My point was the tone of the video is meant to polarize at any cost, even at the cost of marginalizing domestic violence as an issue. That’s problematic.
I am thankful that you were able to escape a violent relationship. Even if you vehemently oppose NARAL, their contributions to the DV coalition will help women in situations similar to the one you were in.
Hi Jayn. When I was in college, they sold us on abortion by saying that it was for the poor desperate young women who were going to hurt themselves. But suddenly, every pregnancy was deemed a crisis. Women were now herded toward abortion. For the money. Pregnancy is natural and healthy. There are risks, but abortionists are playing on fear in order to … get your money. You are not defending something noble. You have been talked into believing murder for hire is alright. It’s not.
Pregnancy is how humans get started. It’s not a disease or a malfunction. It’s natural and healthy. If a woman doesn’t want to raise a child, there are many families that would love to welcome a new child into their home.
Hi Brandolyn,
THANK YOU!!
Luana and I are old friends! We are both State Leaders for Operation Outcry! :)
Small world.
Wow…it is a small world. Are you on Facebook? I will check her friend list and try to find you, and send you a request! =)
Oh, I want in on this facebook friends if you can hook me up, Carla.
I couldn’t view the whole video . . . but what I saw was pretty awesome.
As Flannery O’Connor (I think) said, for the hard of hearing, you shout.
CONFIRMED!! :)
Super diaper!
=) How nice to ‘meet’ both of you!
Bobby: I really can’t say which way I’d lean on that. I had an argument against it typed up, then started thinking about birthing choices and the whole ‘think of the children’ mentality and came to an ‘oh crap’ conclusion that such an argument might lead to birthing choices not being respected (not that they are now, but we really don’t need arguments to support such things). It’s one of those things that is a symptom of a wider social problem that needs to be addressed. I can’t say that I’d support it, but it’s possible I might support a woman’s right to make that decision were that an option.
Carla: There are things that can be done to help the poor, and those things should be pursued. Forcing them to bear children is not one of them. (As an aside, forcing someone to have an abortion isn’t really helpful either. Financially, it may be the more prudent choice, but it really isn’t up to us to make decisions for others. I’d rather support the choices women do make than get on their case for making the ‘wrong’ decision.)
ninek: There are a lot of children who would love to be welcomed into a new home already. I’d also be concerned about what sort of lasting effect adoption has on the birthmother. I agree that pregnancy is normal and healthy–it’s just not always desirable.
@Jayn: You are concerned about the lasting affect ADOPTION has on the birthmother!? Are you really unaware of the lasting affect ABORTION has on women? I implore you to watch Carla’s video or the two videos I posted! Post-abortive women are doing what they can to get the word out that this practice his damaging to them, yet few are listening. Please watch these videos!! Who better to tell us about abortion than the women who have actually had them?
There is no force involved in pregnancy. A child grows and the pregnancy is terminated by giving birth.
Abortion however is the forceful dilation of the cervix and the forceful vacuuming out of the baby who is torn to pieces.
Have you ever had an abortion?
A woman has a right to NOT have an abortion. There should be ZERO force or coercion.
Can we agree on that?
PS
The women I have helped to choose life and give their babies up for adoption all chose OPEN ADOPTION. Look it up for yourself. There is also counseling available and support groups. This isn’t 1950.
Jayn, you act like women don’t partake in the act that makes them pregnant! Its not like a fetus comes running down the street and burrows into you to chomp on your liver! Sex makes babies a lot of the time. Not rocket science. You do know your own parents “did the deed” to create you? Do you understand biology? Sometimes with you pro-choicers I just don’t know. You make the most inane arguments.
A woman has a right to NOT have an abortion. There should be ZERO force or coercion.
Can we agree on that?
Absolutely no arguments from me here.
You do know your own parents “did the deed” to create you?
Yup. And they’ve had a lot more sex that didn’t result in a pregnancy than they have had sex that did.
“I had an argument against it typed up, then started thinking about birthing choices and the whole ‘think of the children’ mentality and came to an ‘oh crap’ conclusion that such an argument might lead to birthing choices not being respected”
Haha, I hear ya. I’ve been there infinity-billion times. Take care, Jayn.
Ugh, this whole “forcing women to give birth” thing is so tired and absolutely absurd. You make the choice to have sex. When you have sex, you make the choice to use birth control. Should you get pregnant (because, gee, that’s how babies are made), then you DO NOT have the right to kill your baby, not for any reason at all. The right to exist is the most fundamental right. Nobody, not even someone’s mommy, can or should take that right away, especially in such a violent and bloody manner.
The idea that adoption is too emotionally painful just shows the sick mindset of the pro-abort community. We’re not entitled to live the life we believe we deserve. We are certainly not entitled to kill anyone who we think stands in our way. What a horrible, frightening way of thinking.
Life is hard, pro-aborts. Suck it up.
Brandolyn: you wrote:
… the tone must also respect the people whose souls are at risk. Yes, we need to do what we can to save the children, but what about the souls of those who are so clearly lost? If we can reach them for Jesus, doesn’t it follow that the babies would be saved also? If we can show them the love and compassion of Christ, build a relationship with them, interact with them and let Jesus live through us, then won’t their hearts be changed?
What about the souls of those that Jesus vehemently, loudly, and coarsely, cleared out of the temple? Did Jesus forget to be compassionate to them? I am not trying to be sarcastic, I am sincerely asking these questions. I have been involved in intense relational evangelism for almost two decades, and I know exactly what you are talking about, trying to “reach them.” But we must consider Jesus’ example. And what about John the Baptist’s example? At one point, he cried out to those who came to him: “You brood of vipers!” –that is harsh harsh language! John the Baptist demonized them, he called them a nest of snakes! And yet Jesus said John was his prophetic messenger, the last and the greatest! Would you say that John the Baptist “did little for his cause?” Would you say that Jesus spoke too highly of John?
Brandolyn, we cannot pretend that these Gospel examples do not exist. Jesus is both the Lamb and the Lion. Evidently, if we follow the two examples I have just listed here, souls will be saved! Otherwise, why would the Holy Spirit ever have allowed this to be written for us in the first place? We must get people to think, to re-think, in other words, to re-pent.
I have taught professionally for ten years, and I know that students sometimes need a “shocker” to get them to stop emotionalizing, and to start thinking. Those students respect me for how clear-cut my language was.
Indeed, as you say, these people at the party should not be treated as the enemy, and yet, they need to understand that they have decided to be in the enemy camp.
Our language needs to reflect the fact that little ones must not be trampled on, and that God is not mocked (Galations 6:1).
God bless you.
“ninek: There are a lot of children who would love to be welcomed into a new home already. I’d also be concerned about what sort of lasting effect adoption has on the birthmother. I agree that pregnancy is normal and healthy–it’s just not always desirable.”
Gravity isn’t desirable, lol! Jayn, I was born into a world where women took it for granted that being pregnant meant they were having a baby. It is a life changing, scary experience! What we’re trying to show you is this: you have been duped by the abortion industry. You can’t kill everyone that isn’t desirable, Jayn. You are too young to understand how our culture was lured into abortion. First, it’s the emergency cases, then it’s every single pregnancy that’s up for debate. This is a sick development. The abortionists want you to believe them. The abortionists have vilified adoption. Sure adoption is difficult, but it’s a chance for the child to become the adult they dream of. Don’t you have hopes and dreams? Can’t a child have hopes and dreams?
Abortion is about money, murder for money. It’s a sick business, Jayn, and I hope you stop defending it.
@Gary, I can tell you are very passionate about the issue of life. This is a good thing, because I am too. So, on that we have common ground. I don’t know how to respond except to say that when I watched this video I was uncomfortable having these men “speak” for me. As a Christian and as a member of the pro-life community, I didn’t feel the love of Christ in their actions or words. Maybe you think that is a mistake on my part, but I am okay with that. If I’m going to err here, I will do so on the side of compassion understanding that these people are so lost and so deceived they can’t understand truth. That makes me sad, not angry.
We are sinning everyday. All of us. Saved and unsaved. Sin pains the Lord – all sin – and I don’t think he makes any distinction between losing our tempers, lying, adultery, or abortion. It is all evil in his eyes. You say this is righteousness in action. I’m not convinced of that. So, it seems on this point we will have to agree to disagree.
One last thing, I believe firmly in protecting the term ‘Christian’. I detest those Westboro Baptist people who claim to be Christians, but clearly are not like Christ at all. I’m not saying these men were as distasteful as WBC, but what I am saying is when we do things in the name of Jesus, we need to make sure we are following the direction of the Holy Spirit. We are representatives of Christ – we are not Christ Himself. So, when we protest ungodliness, well, we must cloak ourselves in humility and compassion. I truly believe that with all my heart. Our anger over the injustice can be turned toward God Himself through prayer and petition. I believe Jesus did that, also. Perhaps we are two extremes, Gary, and the Lord can use this interaction to move both of us more toward Him. I wish you nothing but peace and love, Gary.
You do know your own parents “did the deed” to create you?
Sydney, What??? LA, LA, LA, LA. I’m covering my ears. I can’t hear you! (:
I watched this video when it was first posted on here and I’ve been thinking about it ever since. What a humiliation for the pro-life side. I’m not sure if I’m more upset that these men did this or that this blog posted it as a good thing.
I would love it if the pro-life side would focus on
a) discussing the science and humanity of the pro-life position
b) in a dignified way
c) with people who don’t know much about the abortion debate and are on the fence.
If you want to find a place where you’re least likely to make any difference, go to a NARAL holiday party. Good grief. I suppose, though, if the goal is to feel persecuted (rather than to actually draw people to our cause), then these guys behaved admirably.
@M – I understand how you feel. I couldn’t have said it better myself (I tried, but failed!)…you aren’t alone in your concern.
If abortion is such a big money-maker, care to explain those clinics that have gone bankrupt?
Here’s what frustrates me about the adoption subject–so often (not always, but frequently) there’s an undertone of ‘you owe it to those poor infertile couples!’. And while I certainly feel for those struggling with infertility, that doesn’t create a moral obligation of the part of others to provide them with children. Somehow, adoption has turned from finding homes for needy kids, to finding kids for needy homes, which naturally leads to pressure on desperate women. There’s an air of exploitation there that squicks me out a bit.
Greetings Jill and friends,
Thank you for posting our story and for tipping us off about the NARAL party. I am glad that you get what we did, but it is apparent that many of the pro-lifers here to not get it.
Insurrecta Nex is involved in activism in and around the D.C. area and is constantly making local and national news. In fact, we will be praying on capitol hill for our new congress for 100 days starting January 3.
Please let us know of any more “pro-choice” events that are going on in the D.C. area so that we can continue to expose the baby killers.
God bless you,
David
I am glad that you get what we did, but it is apparent that many of the pro-lifers here to not get it.
Insurrecta Nex is involved in activism in and around the D.C. area and is constantly making local and national news.
So the only goal for your pro-life activities is to make the news? I guess if you believe that any attention, even when it is in a negative light, is worth it, then you’re doing the right things. Personally, I agree with Brandolyn.
@David, I would love to better understand your motives and desires for this video. Please feel free to elaborate. I think I am one of the ones that ‘don’t get it’. I want to get it. Please help me understand.
Kindest regards,
Brandolyn
If you want to find a place where you’re least likely to make any difference, go to a NARAL holiday party. I could be wrong, but I don’t think this video was made to show to NARAL members. Some people, myself included, may have viewed it here and shared it with others.
What a humiliation for the pro-life side. I’m not sure if I’m more upset that these men did this or that this blog posted it as a good thing. M, you don’t speak for the whole pro-life side and your way of doing things is not going to work on every abortion fence sitter. What the prolife movement has historically done is not working. This video will be the last drop in the bucket for some that your way has never reached. Good grief.
That makes me sad, not angry. We need to be more than sad! Abortion makes me both sad and angry. I know I have said this here before, but constructive anger gets things done. You need to get angry enough to shake things up but not too angry to hurt others. People have been legally murdered in our country for how many years now? I for one am all for leaving Namby Pamby Land behind.
David, as a life-long prolifer, I get it. THANK YOU for what you and your group do. We need more people willing to shake things up. Praying for you. God Bless.
@Praxedes, if you read what I said in context, you will find I said their blindness makes me sad, not angry. Abortion makes me very angry. Abortion is a spiritual issue with a physical manifestation. Yes we need to act in the physical, but we need to act in the spirit as well. I don’t know these men except by what I saw in the video. From that, I came away with a bad taste in my mouth. I found it to be lacking tact and it seemed to not be effective for our cause. Shouting at people to repent in the flesh does nothing. Praying for repentance in the spirit does everything.
Jayn,
You know what? As a no exceptions prolifer and post abortive mom I am tired of hearing that I have to adopt every child available in the foster care system before I can say a word!! Give me a break. I have a voice and I will use it and if I never lift another finger to help anyone how does it follow that abortion does not take the life of a human child??
There are infertile couples waiting years to adopt children. There are children waiting years to have a loving family. I LOVE it when the two are brought together!!
Jayn, small clinics are going under because Planned Parenthood is putting them out of business, for one thing.
And what’s this “undertone” you speak of? I would call that “reading into” and “projecting.” Perhaps you can confine your reactions to what we actually do write. Maybe it’s you who feels a little guilty recommending abortion when adoption is the more compassionate action.
Adoption preserves the life of the child. Abortion snuffs it out. There really isn’t any point in debating the merits of each. It’s pretty clear which one is the better choice.
But Jayn, ask yourself this: Should we follow the money trail where it leads or stop and repeat slogans? Has an industry been created that exists to make money off killing one set of pre-born children? Has another business been created that makes money off women’s infertility? Are the two related? Is it not even slightly illogical to kill one set of pre-born children and then charge tens of thousands of dollars per family to create ANOTHER set of pre-born children? Is there something wrong with this picture?
Will all the nicer than Jesus pro-lifers please share what they are personally
doing to end the slaughter of 4,000 innocents every day?
From that, I came away with a bad taste in my mouth. I found it to be lacking tact and it seemed to not be effective for our cause
I think the prolifers were respectful and voices were raised when the music was raised. This was not abusive shouting at all. I believe that their approach will reach some that your way will not.
With that said, I will agree to disagree Brandolyn. God Bless what you are doing to help end abortion.
@Praxedes, perhaps that way will reach some that my method will not. Let’s hope so =)
@Leslie, I’m not sure about the ‘nicer than Jesus’ dig, but I will share that I am currently praying with several other pro-lifer friends of mine on whether or not the Lord will have us do another pro-life event (I organized one about 3 years ago). I would welcome others to pray with me! We are considering doing a sort of Women’s Conference where we have one big group teaching/session on women’s issues and then have several breakout sessions. Our goal is two-fold. First, we’d like to educate people on the affect abortion has on women’s body’s, minds and spirits. This began when I started questioning the similarities between testimonies I’ve heard. I think it is astounding that so many women suffer the same set of circumstances regardless if they had their abortion in 1980 or 2008. Second, we hope to raise funds for a very worthy pro-life cause. Additionally, we are praying if we should also include other issues such as rape, domestic violence, human trafficking, breast cancer, single parenthood, and marriage. We hope this conference to be effective not only in the pro-life community, but also to bond women together and show how the Lord is the conqueror of all things. As a single parent and a survivor of incest, I hope to be useful in this conference.
Additionally on the pro-life front, I donate to IHOP-KC on a regular basis, participate in Bound4Life sieges, volunteer my time at my local Right to Life when I can (the last time was a year ago, however), and I donate money to various pro-life causes. Oh, and most importantly I pray. I always pray for the unborn, the women, the abortionists, and the lawmakers.
So, is that enough, Leslie? Do I pass the test?
I would just like to interject one piece of scripture. James 1:20 – Human anger does not produce the righteousness God desires. Just something to consider…
Brandolyn,
A different interpretation to consider. . .
http://versebyversecommentary.com/2000/08/08/james-120/
Brandolyn,
I’ve been reading the thread of comments. I, along with David, was part of the group that “visited” the NARAL party.
I appreciate the very thoughtful tone perceptible in the recent comments by several people. For those who are struggling to “get it,” I applaud you. Seriously. It’s just been in the past couple years that I have felt convicted to “get it.” I have felt challenged to live up to my “pro-life” stance, to do something which (always peaceful!!) better corresponds to the gravity of the crime.
The parable of the Good Samaritan is often on my mind. He was jolted into action by the sight of the dying person in the ditch–he had a visceral response–this immediate response is, (as Benedict XVI pointed out in his book, Jesus of Nazareth), at the heart of what compassion is.
I, like David, want to thank you, Jill Stanek, for giving us the heads-up about this NARAL event, and thank you so much for posting our video on your blog! God bless you.
Gary
@Gary, thank you. I meant no disrespect toward you or the others, I was just honestly sharing my opinion. I’m not saying it was right or wrong, just my opinion. I do understand the frustration you feel, I think. I feel it, too. But recently, my heart has been softened toward these people. I’m not saying yours hasn’t and I don’t mean that as an accusation, I’m just saying I have a heart for them. Anyway, we are all on the same team here. We all want to see babies protected. We want to see women delivered from the bondage of abortion. We just disagree with how we go about it. This is iron sharpening iron. We need conversations like these, I believe. We need to challenge each other in a respectful manner. I hope you felt I was respectful toward ‘those men’. =)…as followers of Christ, I hope we can disagree and still at the end of the day consider each other brothers and sisters in Christ. In the end, we must settle on unity in the Body over our own individual notions. Have a wonderful night.
PS…I will check out that link. Thanks.
Some more detail may be helpful.
As I saying in my previous entry, the true meaning of COMPASSION grabbed my heart, and made me reconsider my priorities in life, and made me question how much I am actually ready to sacrifice for speeding the end of legalized child killing. This has been a painful but happy process for me, and led to my relocating from the comfortable shores of Hawaii, to DC.
The activity which I/we engage in, through Insurrecta Nex, is invariably edgy. This is deliberate. When we study the successful social revolutions in our nation’s history–the end of slavery, the end of child labor, the beginning of voting rights for women, and the Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s–we see that they have some elements that were common to their success. Among the common threads, is a willingness of some to shine a light on the hidden controversy of the times, a willingness to broach difficult subjects, in ways which millions of people find uncomfortable.
Martin Luther King, like other leaders of social revolution, was willing to place a spotlight on the deplorable condition of the African American. He confronted a whole nation. He knew his life was in danger, but this did not deter him. All this was edgy! He was putting himself “out there.” But he knew what he was doing. And, he was successful. People paid attention. And the law changed.
Let’s remember the edgy, even shrill, voice of William Lloyd Garrison, famous writer who fought, with words, for the end of slavery. He made many people feel uncomfortable. Deliberately. People hated him for it, but we look very favorably on him now, when we see the risks of reputation which he took for the sake of the oppressed. He helped to bring the nation to a crisis of conscience. And it was painful. But in the end, the law changed. Thank God he chose to not mince words. Thank God he publicly spoke about the distasteful, ugly, reality of slavery.
Our visit to NARAL was deliberately against the rules of etiquette. And, partly because of the confrontational tone, a bunch of us (you and me) are now discussing what it means to be “pro-life.” For this, I am glad. It’s a step in the right direction.
The ugliness of child-killing through abortion will not go away without vividly exposing it, vividly confronting the nation. True compassion is highly demanding. Some people need a kind, gentle word of direction, while some others need a strong, bold warning.
I would have much preferred to simply sip wine with the others at that NARAL shindig. It would have been so much more comfortable, so much easier. Really. For me, compassion for the unborn means that, sometimes, I have to be willing to be really uncomfortable, and speak the truth clearly, when I know that many will push me away. (…but let’s remember, they were writing about a dozen “holiday” cards, expressing gratitude to baby-killing “doctors!!”)
For the past twenty years I have been trained in, and have led others, in relational evangelism. It’s awesome! Meeting people, asking them questions, getting to know them. Seeing God work in them. Truly amazing; I have so many conversion stories I could tell.
But during those years did I truly stand up for those being murdered legally? Did I stand up in a way which grabbed people’s attention? No, not usually.
Compassion demands a change in me….demands that I step out of my normal evangelistic comfort zones.
Peace.
Gary said:
“I would have much preferred to simply sip wine with the others at that NARAL shindig. It would have been so much more comfortable, so much easier. Really. ”
Personally Gary, sipping wine with NARAL at their Christmas party would have been way further outside my comfort zone then doing what you did.
I don’t see how prolifers can be critical of these guys. Maybe its not everyone’s style and/ or everone’s call to do stuff like this, but it’s not cruel or illegal or the least bit freaky. They made pro-aborts at a party…. Uncomfy. Great. Maybe some will think.
The scope of the murder of the innocents is HUGE. Why not applaud every legal means possible to speak out? Some of us will do it in loud ways, others quiet, others a combination. No one approach is going to wake up our country to the violence in our midst. So support a full attack, which includes every legal means possible.
These guys were resourceful and gutsy. Kudos to them. Next time they could include a prolife woman or two and watch the proaborts squirm even more. :)
Another thing I like about the video? It gets me to think about what I’m doing to fight this, when I’ve spoken up for the innocent. Honestly, I haven’t done enough. This has been my hardest pregnancy so far (expecting my fourth boy) but I’m going to to drag my rotund self out to the abortion mill on Saturday and pray, to honor and stand up for the ones, like my little Dominic, who have no legal voice.
At least, not yet.
Haven’t watched the video, but…
Do you think that a desperately poor woman who is far to poor to support a child(and please don’t give me the same old B.S. about adoption) cares whether the fetus she is carrying is human and that life supposedly begins at conception?
I just watched a documentary the other day about three crack addicts in the mid-1990s. One of them, Brenda – who’s maybe in her early thirties and has been on drugs since she was eleven – finds out she’s pregnant and, despite being a crack-addicted prostitute whose family wants her to have an abortion, ends up having the baby. She realizes the baby is a human being when she goes to have an ultrasound – to see if she’s too far along to have an abortion – and sees the baby’s limbs, features, and heartbeat. While she nearly caves in to family pressure later on to have a late-term abortion in another state, she doesn’t show up for it, cuts off all contact with her pimp/boyfriend, and has the baby. This is a desperately poor woman on crack cocaine who supports herself through prostitution and is missing all four front teeth.
So, yes, some poor women do care that fetuses are human. If you don’t believe me, you can watch the documentary yourself. It’s free.
http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/high_on_crack_street_lost_lives_in_lowell/
I don’t see how prolifers can be critical of these guys. Maybe its not everyone’s style and/ or everone’s call to do stuff like this, but it’s not cruel or illegal or the least bit freaky. They made pro-aborts at a party…. Uncomfy. Great. Maybe some will think.
Mary Ann, I didn’t have a problem with the guys GOING there. Shoot, great idea! I just question the methods they employed to present the prolife side.
I don’t think condemning people’s souls and writing things like that on cards will necessarily make them think.
Why? I attended a talk by Abby Johnson who used to be director of a Planned Parenthood but is now pro-life. She said we have to stop throwing around names and talk to the other side with respect. She said that part of the reason she heard the Coalition for Life out was because they were respectful to her and didn’t call her names.
I get the whole ‘let’s call a spade a spade’ but these people are human beings, too. We can stand up for life and condemn their actions without condemning them because we don’t know if these people will repent abortion and if they do and all we’ve done is condemn them, then where can they possibly go for support in becoming pro-life and repenting what they did?
I think a more effective means would’ve been to engage someone in conversation. Talk to them about why abortion is wrong not just say “You got blood on your hands” because they probably sincerely believe they do not.
The scope of the murder of the innocents is HUGE. Why not applaud every legal means possible to speak out? Some of us will do it in loud ways, others quiet, others a combination. No one approach is going to wake up our country to the violence in our midst. So support a full attack, which includes every legal means possible.
I don’t applaud name calling/sarcasm on Christmas Cards–whether true or no–because I think it’s ineffective whether it’s legal or not.
Yes, the scope of abortion is huge. It’s a major problem and we must stand up for life, however, I believe employing not just legal methods, but something more effective will work better for our (the pro-life) side.
Another thing I like about the video? It gets me to think about what I’m doing to fight this, when I’ve spoken up for the innocent. Honestly, I haven’t done enough. This has been my hardest pregnancy so far (expecting my fourth boy) but I’m going to to drag my rotund self out to the abortion mill on Saturday and pray, to honor and stand up for the ones, like my little Dominic, who have no legal voice.
And that’s fabulous that you’re going to go pray outside an abortion mill. That’s wonderful. We all must work together for the pro-life side.
But prayer and courteous dialogue will probably get us further than name-calling and condemnation. Look at Abby Johnson–it worked on her.
Great comment, Mother of Texas… =)
Leslie,
I view your comment: “nicer than Jesus” as an attempt to make some pro-lifers either a. feel guilty (for not doing enough or whatever) and b. make us ineffective by saying “well, I’m doing such-and-such, what are YOU doing?–Oh that’s not enough!” We have to work together to stand up for life. Every pro-lifer has different gifts/abilities/etc. It isn’t right, fair, kind, effective, respectful to make snide comments to your fellow pro-lifers. It also doesn’t make people want to work with you. (Believe me, I’ve gone the “holier-than-thou” route and it doesn’t work).
Yes, I wish I did more. There. I said it. I admit I am NOT doing as much as I’d like–doesn’t mean I won’t in the future, it doesn’t mean I can or can’t, it just means I realize abortion is a big problem and sometimes we’re not doing enough or not doing everything that’s effective. However, I do speak out against abortion. I am a mother. I have gone on protests. I have tried to talk people out of abortions (including a sister-in-law).
I have sat with friends who have abortion regrets and sought help for them.
I attended a Conference where one of the big topics was abortion and how pro-lifers can be more effective. (Abby Johnson gave a talk about that).
I pray every single day for the end of abortion.
Thank you, Brandolyn.
@Mother of Texas, well said. I will admit I was annoyed by Leslie’s ‘nicer than Jesus’ comment, too. I wish now I hadn’t responded with all the things I have done or am doing. I allowed myself to be sucked into defending myself when what I do or don’t do for the LIFE issue is between me and God. I shouldn’t have responded to that comment.
@Leslie, for what it’s worth, no hard feelings on my part. Go with God and let’s all work together as the Body of Christ and end this horrible practice of abortion.
Okay, with that said, I can wipe my hands of this thread and move on to the next! =) Be blessed everyone!!
More women need to be represented in these things. What’s a girl gotta do to get an invitation to a fun little shindig like this?
M in Texas, I agree that’s is good to hear what turned Abby around. But other methods have worked on other people, so why not have an ‘all of the above’ approach? Prolifers waste time on disagreeing about methods most of the time. I say, just go for it.
And if the soft and gentle, courteous approach were the only way, or even the best way, that would seem to negate John the Baptist’s preaching repentance. Even our Lord used names like ‘viper’ to call out evil doing. It might not be the best approach all the time, but it’s not without precedent.
X, totally agree. Bring on the prolife women!
MaryAnn,
I think you and I can agree that we have to work together to find the most EFFECTIVE approach.
We can get carried on the wings of passion–and goodness knows I understand that completely…but we also have to figure out the BEST approach.
I know what Jesus and John the Baptist said. I own and have read the Bible. But we can’t take Biblical passages out of context. Perhaps those passages apply here–I’m not a Bible Scholar so I couldn’t say; however, I do know that a person could take those passages and use them as an excuse to scream names at people anytime they wanted by simply saying “Jesus did.” Which takes away the whole point of the passage and what Jesus was saying.
Brandolyn (if you are still lurking) and Mother of Texas, there has been a 40 + year war
on pre-born babies in which they are dismembered at the rate of 4K every day, as you
know. The time for polite discussion is long past, IMO. I’m thrilled you are so wonderfully
involved, Brandolyn. Most who like to critique style aren’t. Pro-aborts need to be confronted
on every front by holy boldness. If we don’t warn the pro-aborts of their eternal destination,
apart from repenting, the blood is on our hands.
I disagree that there is one BEST approach in the prolife movement.
The in fighting and squabbling doesn’t help. It does entertain the proaborts though.
Brandolyn is not a lurker but a very good friend of mine in the movement. Her passion for unborn children and post abortive moms knows no bounds.
Carla,
Agreed, I apologize for using the wrong word. I sincerely meant
if she was still reading the thread, since she indicated earlier that she
was moving on.
Maybe if everyone could see the staggering parallels between fighting abortion and ending Hitler’s holocaust and slavery in the US, they would realize how debating style differences
produces no fruit.
On using the analogy of slavery and abortion, I would like to share this quote from Ta-Nehisi Coates:
[The analogy] is not bulky or awkward, it is just wrong. But to point out the obvious fact that Africans were not “part” of the fight against slavery, but its authors, to again detail how enslaved Africans resisted slavery from the moment they were taken into baracoons, to again show how slaves, themselves, by their own actions, transformed the Civil War into a war of liberation, to argue against the implicitly racist notion that enslaved Africans are somehow the equals, not even of children, but of embryos, to even begin to “escaping” the womb does not make you Frederick Douglass is just too much. It is, to be blunt, beneath me.
This is not a matter of being pro-choice or pro-life. This is a matter of living in a country that is more fascinated with the machinations of Stonewall Jackson, than Sojourner Truth. One reason that black people grimace at invocations of their history to justify the struggle de jure, is because, very often, the invokers really don’t know what the f*** they are talking about. Put bluntly they have no deep knowledge of the black struggle, and are not seeking any. For them, black history is a rhetorical device, employed to pummel their ideological foes, and then promptly discarded for more appropriate instruments.
I would never argue that history is the property of specific groups. I would not even argue that history is the property of my allies. But I would argue that those who invoke it should regard history–all history–as something more than a rhetorical device. If you’re going to claim that Susan B. Anthony was pro-life feminist, have your f***ing facts straight. If you’re going to compare abortion and slavery, then, by God, understand that whereas mothers choose every day whether to bring children to term, no slave-master ever chose to have his slave escape. (To say nothing of comparing mothers with slave-masters!! F***, my brain is hurting.)
Can’t believe the video was removed, it stopped working only an 1/8th of the way into watching it. :( Wish I could have viewed it!
Cindy O,
I am sorry that the YouTube video was taken down before you could finish watching it! But, no worries, we will post it up on Eye Blast before the day is over.
-Gary
TNS,
I think you’ve missed the main point about pro-life comparisons between abortion and slavery (and abortion with the Shoah, for that matter). I don’t pretend to defend every last person’s attempt to do so, but the main premise is sound: both African-Americans and unborn children were declared to be “non-persons” under constitutional case law (cf. Dred Scott v. Sanford, and Roe v. Wade, respectively). It’s a case where the government saw fit to “de-personalize” anyone they wished, freeing them for whatever maltreatment their “owners” saw fit to give. Surely you see this?
As for Susan B. Anthony, you might check out Feminists for Life, and their information on her. (I’d post a link, but the system has been marking my messages as “spam” when I do that, lately.) If you’re suggesting that Susan B. Anthony was NOT a pro-life feminist, you have a hard case to prove, friend.
That’s absolutely right, Paladin. In fact, the very quote that TNS gives shows this explicitly:
“…to argue against the implicitly racist notion that enslaved Africans are somehow the equals, not even of children, but of embryos…”
This quote is PRECISELY why we compare abortion to slavery. In both cases, you take a certain kind of human being and exclude them from having the same rights as another class of human beings. The quote begs the question by assuming that embryos are not of equal kind to blacks or other born people, which is EXACTLY what the pro-life claim is. It is about as convincing as arguing for slavery by stating that “when it comes to the question of slavery, we are not talking about adult persons or even young persons, but of negros.”
That a priori excludes blacks from the class of persons, which is precisely what the anti-slavery movement was about- that blacks are of teh same dignity and moral worth as whites. T
The pro-life movement says that the unborn has the same dignity and moral worth as the born. Blowing that claim off by calling them “embryos” and a little “know your history” doesn’t do anything to address the main claim of teh pro-life movement, let alone refute the claim that there is a strong parallel between the way people looked upon blacks then and the way people look upon the unborn now.
If you’re going to compare abortion and slavery, then, by God, understand that whereas mothers choose every day whether to bring children to term, no slave-master ever chose to have his slave escape. (To say nothing of comparing mothers with slave-masters!! F***, my brain is hurting.)
Excluding the possible profanity here (I say “possible” because you were polite enough to put stars after the first letter rather than type out the entire word), you just plain don’t get it, do you? It’s about the fact that one type of human being is being thought of as less a person simply because they aren’t outside the womb. Africian Americans were thought of as “less human” because of the color of their skin. The list goes on and on about different groups not being thought of as human (or not fully human) for whatever reason. The bottom line is: it’s about human dignity. The fact that even though said human is not outside his or her mother’s womb he or she is STILL a human being with the right to life which is a basic right we’re all endowed with by God and nature.
A friend of mine is a History teacher (with a Major and Masters in History, a second B.A. in Political Science, a certificate in Women’s Studies and a Certificate in Africian American studies). Based on my conversations with him he understands the similairities between slavery and abortion.
YouTube removed the video before I could see it but is sounded pretty radical! To the person who asked if it would be OK for NARAL to do the same at a pro-life party, I say, sure. Come in and throw plastic models of human fetuses around except, theirs would not be plastic now would they? They have access to the real thing don’t they? How crazy would that be!
“If you’re going to claim that Susan B. Anthony was pro-life feminist, have your f***ing facts straight. ”
I like how you link to an article published by 2 bitter and biased individuals which esentially say “Nuh-uuuhhhh!”, which actually contains another link to the well-written refutation by Susan B. Anthony List pres. which expertly counters their exercise in denial. Also, one of the angry “historians” is an ex-anchor for ABC news. But…there’s no liberal slant in the media. No way. lawl.
Par for the course for the left. If you dont’ like history, write your own. :)
Rebuttal here: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/05/susan_b_anthony_pro-life_feminist.html
The group has it up again on YouTube. Have posted a link as an update.