Let’s help NARAL “put a face to our cause”
Earlier today Kathleen Gilbert at LifeSiteNews.com took note of NARAL’s new media campaign, “Putting a face to our cause.” Click to enlarge…
The instructions are simple. Email a graphic or picture to hall33ready@photos.flickr.com, and it will automatically upload to NARAL’s flickr site.
So Kathleen suggested pro-lifers “put a face to our cause” and upload pro-life graphics and photos. The results have been amazing. Pro-lifers have utterly taken over NARAL’s flickr page, reminiscent of when pro-lifers took over NARAL’s “Blog for Choice Day” in January. Go here for a 1-minute video guide made by a pro-lifer on how to submit a graphic or photo, if you’re unclear.
Kathleen reported that at about 4:30p someone from NARAL deleted the pro-life graphics, but they’re back. Here’s a current screen shot of the top of the page, although it is constantly changing (completely pro-life at present!)…
Now Pro-Life Action League has joined in the project, and Live Action, Heartbeat International, and others are tweeting on it. (If you do tweet, make sure to include @NARAL in your tweet, so NARAL reads it.)
I don’t know how long it’ll be before NARAL shuts this down, or changes the rules, but we have here a window by which to “put a face to our cause” before abortion proponents. So go for it!
Hahahahahahaha! Go pro-lifers! We are mighty!
“War on Women”….that’s rich. What a bunch of crybaby drama queens.
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Mary Lee
When I first saw the sign I thought see was pro-life and meant that abortion was actually war on women. Someone needs to add to that sign a pre-born baby girl nodding affirmatively. I think most people when they understand the consequences of abortion know it is an actual war on women.
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I agree, Myrtle. Abortion is a war against everything feminine, everything feminist, everything life-affirming. Abortion itself IS the war on women.
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Sent!
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If NARAL wants to “put a face to our cause” I can think of none better than to put up pro-choicer Ed Schultz calling a woman a “slut”.
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It’s almost like Christmas. I went to the site myself and it’s beautiful all the pro-life signs. They have some awesome signs. Hopefully an environmentalist will make one too.
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Thank you Jill for this great bit of info. I’ve sent my pro-life picture in =)
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Whee! There is a pitched posting battle over there. Keep the pics going!
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Wow the prolifers have relly overtaken NARAL. LOL!!!
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I sent mine in. Age changed to protect the innocent.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/prochoiceamerica/5759983863/
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Right now there are many pro-abort photo-less captions. The same caption each time. My guess is one pro abort sending the same email dozens of times without a picture. I went through 10 pages without seeing a single pro-choice photo like naral requested.
Whatever side you are on, you would have to be incredibly tone deaf to not realize that pro-life is winning the pr war.
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There is one deranged individual posting pro-abort phrases to knock off the pictures of children.
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Are you kidding me? I can not even imagine how furious you would get if people took up this childish tactic against your cause. Pitiful, to say the least. Not only are you against Women (let me have it, although I guarantee I’ve heard it before!), you are against creativity! Lame!!!
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Yeah. I’m against women. If I were against women, I’d support killing them in the womb. More women are aborted than men, often for sex-selection reasons.
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And also, tell me that’s not your real name because you sound like a dinosaur or pagan god.
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Zzzzz… Doing one’s best to force a Woman to carry a child she doesn’t want is totally pro-Woman! Especially if the Woman is 13 and was raped by her uncle! You’re right, you do love Women! My mistake… Perhaps if more people really understood biology from an evolutionary standpoint the world could really make progress. Unfortunately, that’s not the case, so we’re stuck at this impasse. One day science will trump ignorance and superstition!
PS-I know where you’ll try to take this statement, and I assure you I know more than you do about the subject. You’ll likely try to steer it towards things you don’t understand/ things that are clearly horrible so as to insist that my comment means something it doesn’t. Eh, maybe you won’t! I hope not!
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I’m a pterodactyl, thank you very much!
Actually, that is my name. How rude of you to insult my Mother’s choice to name me Ashtar.
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I assure you that you don’t. Do you know the Law of Biogenesis? Clearly not. Google it, scientist.
P.S. I am a scientist. The dissertation I’m writing right now is but one example.
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@Ashtar: If posting pics to a political opponent’s photostream constitutes “opposing creativity”…then you have a different definition of creativity on your planet than we do on Earth.
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I am so sorry. How unfortunate for you. I have friends that name their children equally ridiculous monikers. That is an injustice. You should have problems being taken seriously for your absurd comments and failure to make a logical argument, not by your name.
If it makes you feel better, I’ll think of you as “James” from here on out, so I know I am scoffing at your ignorance and not your unfortunate naming.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtar_%28extraterrestrial_being%29
You were named after a channeled alien? Seriously, was your mom on crack?
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Are you male or female?
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Lighten up, Ash.
Take your own advice and go plunder a prolife website. Spread the good news of prochoice-ism loud and clear, far and wide.
Then we’ll call it even, First Amendment and all that.
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One day science will trump ignorance and superstition!
That’s what pro-lifer’s are hoping for.
And btw, it’s not like pro-choicer’s have been flooding the pro-life hastag on Twitter with pro-choice tweets/verbal abuse/etc. now ever since forever or anything, right? It took pro-lifer’s a little longer to catch on to technology (the same technology that’s been used against us for years) but now that we’ve started using it, you’ll find the pro-choice side has awakened a sleeping giant.
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Now you’re saying my Mother did drugs? I thought this was a friendly place! Kidding.
My name is not really Ashtar, but if it was, I would feel bad for myself. That said, I honestly didn’t know about the alien thing before I started using it. It sounds like a cute dinosaur to me, and I since I don’t enjoy being stalked, I use it instead of my real name.
One of the kids I worked with the other day has the unfortunate name ‘Dijonai,’ which reminds me of a mustard/mayonnaise hybrid I used to see commercials for.
Although I’m a Woman, I do like the name James, so I’ll accept it!
What did I say that was ‘absurd’?
Lastly, did you just try to pull the ‘I’m a scientist’ card on me?
Alice- On my planet we only eat onions and we worship Lord Gourlageiriact. We are all female and we undergo pathogenesis when our numbers get low.
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I am so relieved that your name is not really Ashtar. Seriously.
You pulled the “I know more than you” card after you said something completely contrary to the laws of biology. So yes, I am a scientist. I’m assuming you are not? On What, then, is this assurance that you know more than I do based? I can pull the bio-ethicist card because I earned it. I am earning moreso as I continue this study I’m doing at the moment.
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There are so many uploading it’s crazy. About one every second.
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It’s been hijacked by an antiabortion spammer. Nobody else can get a word in edgewise. I’m praying that this person gets an agonizing hand cramp that put him or her out of commission until they lose interest and go to bed.
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Doing one’s best to force a Woman to carry a child she doesn’t want is totally pro-Woman!
Treating women like hapless victims who “fell pregnant” by some unknown force and can’t POSSIBLY be expected to take responsibility for the consequences, while treating men as “big boys” who can accept that sex may lead to the responsibility of parenthood and lifelong financial support is so pro-woman. I love being told that I need a surgical procedure to protect me from my choices.
Especially if the Woman is 13 and was raped by her uncle!
That’s right – defend the majority of convenience abortions obtained by women who already made the choice to have sex by appealing to the incredibly rare (relatively) scenario where a woman truly had no choice. Rape is tragic. Creating a second victim compounds rather than alleviates that tragedy.
Perhaps if more people really understood biology from an evolutionary standpoint the world could really make progress.
What do you mean by this? I wouldn’t want to make you say something you’re not saying, but I fail to see what evolutionary biology has to do with the destruction of human life. Please tell me this is not the all embryos look the same argument.
I assure you I know more than you do about the subject. You’ll likely try to steer it towards things you don’t understand….
I know infinity more than you, so there, no backing…I’m super cereal.
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photo sent, and prayers lifted :)
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Honestly, I’m just being a brat with the ‘I know more than you’ thing. I’m so used to people coming at me with inane banter, that I fell into the trap of assuming it was impossible that I might find someone who follows actual science/ thinks critically before having come to a decision on an issue this large. That’s a huge compliment, so I hope you take it as such.
The theory(or law) of bio-genesis is fascinating indeed, and it makes sense in terms of your position on this issue. I’m but an Anthropology major(4 classes from my degree), and my boyfriend is a Physicist, so you and I differ in our fields of study in ways that make clear why we disagree on the pro-choice/pro-life debate.
Anyway, rest assured my name in not actually Ashtar. Haha.
Please feel free to share any interesting finding from your study with me! I’m serious! You of all people know that the most awesome thing about science is seeing things from all angles before making a decision! Again, I hope you recognize that I’m being sincere.
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CT- I’m not a hapless victim, and I don’t see all Women as hapless victims. You’re good at the manipulation game! Kind of like the anti-choice Mrs Robinson! I find it kind of sexy. Is that weird?
Anyway, I wasn’t going to use the embryo argument, and arguing about evolution vis a vis the God debate isn’t helpful for anyone in the long run.
I’m sure you’re a nice person, and I appreciate you repeating things to me that I’ve studied, read about ad nauseum, and have interpreted through a different lens than you. That’s ok! We don’t all have to agree about everything! My only hope is that we can all reach a day at which we can respect one another’s choices, and leave a conversation between a Woman and her doctor between a Woman and her doctor. I don’t feel that you or anyone else should have a say in what goes on in my cervix, and I certainly wouldn’t tell you what to do with yours.
Peace!!!
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But… Ashtar… if I’m driving across the desert on a road nobody else is going to use this week, and I see someone by the side of the road, parched with thirst, with a broken leg, and I make the choice to drive by, is that a choice you’d respect?
There was a risk in stopping to pick up a hitch hiker… and maybe I have to make a huge detour to get to the hospital… and I didn’t ASK for this… and it’s MY car… but still, that’s the situation I’m in. I do one thing, I suffer and face risks, and somebody lives; I do another thing, then I avoid suffering and risk and somebody dies.
This is easier for me – I’m a guy, so unlikely ever to be in such a difficult situation in reality! But that IS the situation, isn’t it? You got handed the power of life and death. How are you going to use it?
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Joshua- You do know that the scenario you presented was an apple to this debate’s orange, so I won’t even say that.
I’ve personally picked up hitch hikers regardless of the potential risk, and again, that has nothing to do with this issue.
I appreciate your having made the distinction that you’re not a a female, and thus your opinion is inherently going to differ from mine in terms of your inability to become pregnant/ the impossibility of you ever having to face the decision of what to do if you personally faced the decision whether or not to have a child you didn’t plan for/can’t financially or emotionally care for.
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Congratulations on being so close to graduating. I teach seniors in political science, so I am guessing you are about the age of most of my students.
“I fell into the trap of assuming it was impossible that I might find someone who follows actual science/ thinks critically before having come to a decision on an issue this large”
I wish I could believe you, but no one can think scientifically or critically about abortion and still support it with a shred of intellectual honesty. It’s not possible. Human beings only reproduce human beings and unless you admit that you support the oppression of some human beings for the benefit of other human beings, there is not an acceptable argument for one human being killing another. You would never admit that, because you don’t want to admit that you exploit others for selfish gain- so you choose to deny science and common sense and refute the humanity of the unborn. It simply doesn’t work.
Science has defined the beginning of life at conception (it can’t be before, and it’s certainly not after). Miscarried children have proven that even the youngest humans have their own unique DNA. Technology has allowed us to view fetal development, the amazing growth of a baby in the womb. Even without all these advancements, everyone is aware that humans are only pregnant with humans- and that if you do not interrupt nature, you will birth a neonate in 9 months. Some, for selfish gain, have even chosen to claim that newborns aren’t fully human and should be killed in infancy if the parent so decided (Ivy League Professor Peter Singer, for example). You can’t change science to suit your self-interests, but that doesn’t stop pro-aborts from trying.
As for your hope that one day we can respect one another’s choices- that will only happen when those choices are respectable. The choice to abuse, the choice to rape. I don’t respect those. The choice to dismember one’s own son or daughter is likewise not a respectable choice. I will never respect that choice because it’s disgusting. It’s evil, and I will do everything I can to protect children from those that want to justify harming/killing them. I would never tell you what to do with your cervix. You can expose it to all sorts of diseases through irresponsible sex if you please, but the second sex creates a new human being, you have no right to destroy her. She has a cervix, too.
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By the way, I have had a functioning female reproductive system for over 30 years, able to produce children for 17 of those years and have never and will never be “faced with the decision whether or not to have a child you didn’t plan for/can’t financially or emotionally care for.” This is a non-decision. I don’t create children I can’t care for! I would never do that to my son/daughter. Furthermore, I will never be faced with a decision or whether or not to “have” a child or kill a child. Killing the child is not an option, whether it is legal or not. The idea that pregnant women are faced with a decision to kill or birth the child is absurd, as killing a child is a deliberate act that involves money and surgery and bearing/birthing a child is a natural consequence of sexual relations. You have created a horrible, horrific choice where their should be none by virtue of having sex and creating children when you know you can not care for them. Like I said, this “facing the decision whether or not to have a child you didn’t plan for/can’t financially or emotionally care for” is only the consequence of selfish people choosing to have sex at their children’s expense. It’s 100% preventable, as is this “decision” you claim you might be faced with. NO- you CREATE that situation by your choices.
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Ashtar… it’s a different scenario, yes, but not wholly incomparable. In both cases, one has a choice forced on one that results in either life or death for another person.
It’s terribly painful to be faced with that choice – but that really is the choice one faces when considering abortion.
I’m sure if I were a woman I would FEEL differently because it would be happening inside my own body. But I hope I wouldn’t THINK differently.
Do my rights over my body trump the unborn child’s right to life? That’s the terribly difficult question that a woman who is pregnant but doesn’t want to be faces.
It’s a totally unfair situation… any woman in that situation deserves tons and tons of sympathy and practical help. But acknowledging all that doesn’t make the moral problem go away.
Also… I do have some experience of facing the difficulty of raising a child I didn’t plan and wasn’t emotionally prepared for. My wife and I found out at 20 weeks that our son had Down Syndrome. Mental retardation was our ultimate horror. Every doctor we saw offered an abortion.
But … the thing of it is … he was and is a person. It was not for us to kill him
because we weren’t emotionally ready for him. We may not have wanted them, but we had obligations to him.
I know, I know… different situation… but not totally different?
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You go Jacqueline!
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Ashtar, I am a secular pro-lifer with two graduate degrees. I am also socially liberal (pro gay marriage), but it’s biology and logic that has taught me that abortion is the killing of another person, an attack on their bodies, the dismemberment and disposal of their little bodies, the blatant disregard for scientific integrity. Abortion is NOT a right. We do not have the right to kill people, especially our babies. Abortion isn’t a semantic choice–abortion is THE ONLY “surgical” procedure in which the sole purpose is to kill another human being. I am pro-woman and pro-life because that is the only life-affirming and just position. I am a feminist through and through, and I celebrate that we can carry life. It must be honored. Pregnancy is not a disease, an unborn baby is not a parasite, is not part of the woman’s body. I do not want to squelch my own rights….I want to be respected for my differences, and sacrificing our children for personal gain or to compete in a man’s world is not feminist. At all.
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Pardon me for butting in, here, Ashtar, but: wouldn’t your argument (cf. “a woman should have the right to kill her unborn child if she thinks it may be difficult to care for him/her”) apply equally well to born children? After all, your scenarios about being unable to care for your son after he’s born (due to poverty, challenging circumstances, etc.) or to love your daughter properly who was conceived by the crime of a rapist, are mere guess-work; why not wait until they’re born, and try the experiment? After you try for a bit and realize, “hey, I was right… I *don’t* love my daughter conceived in rape as I thought I could” or “hey, I was right… we *are* too poor to feed another person”, THEN you could kill your daughter or son. (It’d also be far cheaper, and far less invasive, and far safer, than would be a surgical abortion; heavens… bullets, knives, plastic bags, etc., are quite cheap by comparison, some of them can even be re-used, and you can see exactly what you’re doing–as opposed to the abortionist, who’s stabbing blindly into your uterus with a razor-edged, high-power vacuum curettage, guided (perhaps) by a grainy ultrasound image.) It’s a no-brainer, don’t you think?
As for the fact that such child-murder is currently illegal: that’s a mere legal trifle. A single U.S. Supreme Court case could change all that, yes? A few more “emanations of penumbras” could be found to strike down all so-called “child murder” laws until the child reaches some suitable age (e.g. 12 years? 17.9 years?). If it’s morally acceptable, then why worry about what the “anti-choice” laws currently say about it?
As for the trifling fact that born children could be given to others: surely you’ve read/seen as many adoption/foster-care horror stories (usually from abortion-tolerant people) as I have? If such arguments justify abortion (to prevent the supposed “greater evil” of inflicting such a predicted horror-life on the child–which, I’ll point out again, is pure guess-work, but I digress…), then surely they don’t lose their weight against born children? How will “being born” change their future “monster adoptive parents”, “monster foster care providers”, or “monster orphanage-managers” into “good, caring people” who wouldn’t inflict the predicted, incalculable torments?
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Yay, Paladin… that’s what I said to the Docs who wanted to kill our son… “so you’re saying life with DS will be so tough for him he’s better off dead… well, I guess you know what you’re talking about… but perhaps we should let him decide on an issue that affects him so closely… so how about we bring him back when he’s 18 and if he thinks life’s as bad as you say it will be, you can kill him then?”
Funny, though, as it turns out, the value of his life to him, to us, to his extended family, his school friends, the people he meets in church and in the play ground… is IMMENSE… so it looks like the medical advice was not so hot!
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Joshua wrote:
[…]so it looks like the medical advice was not so hot!
:) You have a gift for artful understatement, good sir! And thank you for sharing your story; it was edifying and inspirational, and you (and your family) are in my prayers!
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I submitted a photo about 15 minutes ago, and it still hasn’t shown up, which has me thinking that they have shut it down. But the pro-life images that were submitted earlier are still there.
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Joshua thanks for sharing your story! God bless you and your family – I know that having children with DS or other mental disorders can be challenging but God will always give you the strength. And it seems like your lives have already been richly blessed by your son’s presence
(I don’t have children yet but I’ve done hippotherapy to work with children with all kinds of disorders from autism to DS to being paralyzed… )
Fantastic debate today, yall! And Ashtar…. you’re a very agreeable person and I enjoy reading your comments! Just thought I would thank you for carrying on a civil debate, unlike many pro-choicers who post here.
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My only hope is that we can all reach a day at which we can respect one another’s choices, and leave a conversation between a Woman and her doctor between a Woman and her doctor.
From my understanding, in most abortion facilities the woman sees the doctor for only a few minutes.
And if this is such a private decision, why do so many PC’ers want tax dollars to pay for abortions.
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Yay! Pro-Life flash mob: ELECTRONIC EDITION!
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Yes, Kelsey they’ve blocked us now, and will start deleting them all. I hope and pray that anyone that needed help saw the crisis pregnancy help or abortion recovery pictures.
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Paladin and Libertybelle – thanks for your kind words and prayers.
Having tried the experiment of doing what we thought God wanted, rather than what would be convenient for us, the result, after some tears, is a huge amount of unexpected happiness. Imagine that… just like in Sunday School.
So far as I see, He doesn’t always give us what we want… but if we’re willing to accept it, He’ll give us what we need.
“The one who believes will not be in haste” Is 18:16
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“Anyway, I wasn’t going to use the embryo argument, and arguing about evolution vis a vis the God debate isn’t helpful for anyone in the long run.
I’m sure you’re a nice person, and I appreciate you repeating things to me that I’ve studied, read about ad nauseum, and have interpreted through a different lens than you”
Ashtar thinks I’m a nice person. Check that off my personal accomplishment list. I’m sure you’re a nice person too if we’re trading irrelevancies, but I don’t care about people’s personal temperaments, only their arguments. Since you know so much about this, and since you didn’t mean the embryo argument, please answer my question and explain what you did mean. I’m not going to take your word for it that you have an amazing argument in your back pocket. So what is this evolutionary biology argument that we fail to understand that if understood would lead us towards progress? I may not be like infinity smarter than everyone else, but I’m sure I can keep up.
Also, since you have mentioned that the only problem is that we view things through different lenses, I guess you need to make an argument that yours is the one we should be using in this debate.
I appreciate your having made the distinction that you’re not a a female, and thus your opinion is inherently going to differ from mine in terms of your inability to become pregnant/ the impossibility of you ever having to face the decision of what to do if you personally faced the decision whether or not to have a child you didn’t plan for/can’t financially or emotionally care for.
I’ll go slow here lest you be overcome by my powers of sexy “manipulation”. This is my point. In our society men face this exact scenario ALL THE TIME. Plenty of men are not emotionally or financially ready to care for or support a child. But those men have sex anyway. And our laws say, well you’re a big boy and you took that risk of fatherhood when you had sex. But women….oh no poor women can’t possibly be faced with parenthood….just b/c they had sex!! The injustice. The hardship. The ridiculous double standard that when it comes right down to it, is pretty insulting to women. Well….did I do ok or are you all hot and bothered over there?
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Thanks for responding, Jacqueline. I appreciate and respect your views and how you came to them. I may not agree, but again, I thank you for giving me a scientific, rather than emotional response.
Joshua- I’m so sorry to hear that you were told to abort your little one. I’ve known many people with Down Syndrome and they are easily some of the sweetest, most kind people in this world. I imagine it is difficult to care for a child with Down Syndrome, and I salute you for having made the decision to keep your child.
Mary- Word. I’ve heard those statements before, and I see where people on that side of the coin are coming from.
Liberty- Thanks. It makes me sad that people can’t have these discussions without flying off the handle/ throwing out ad hominem attacks left and right. This has certainly been a pleasant discussion, and it gives me hope that we can all find some sort of peace.
My biggest issue with this topic is that there are those who would prevent any and all Women from obtaining contraceptives. I would like to see a sharp decrease in the number of abortions performed, but I would like the catalyst to be universal access to family planning services, a decrease in sexual assault, and better laws/programs to support mothers.
I read things from many people who have never been to a developing nation about how overpopulation is not an issue, or that Women in developing countries do not need/want birth control as a means of improving their lives. Not all do, obviously. Many do, however, and I think it is unkind to attempt to defund the IMF population division based on rumors and unsubstantiated fears.
Oy, I’ve gotta get out and be in the sun! Peace!!!
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The fact that some jerk kept posting the same graphic about 500 times didn’t help.
I think they’ve just dropped the project. Which is a shame — I made some GREAT graphics. Help yourself at http://www.flickr.com/groups/1725943@N22/pool/
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Ashtar wrote:
I would like to see a sharp decrease in the number of abortions performed, but I would like the catalyst to be universal access to family planning services, a decrease in sexual assault, and better laws/programs to support mothers.
I’m heart and soul with you, in the last two (and I know of no sane person who wouldn’t be, frankly). But in case you’ve not heard it before (and I don’t want to derail the thread onto this side-topic): one of many objections to contraception as “the great abortion-preventer” is that it simply doesn’t work. It might seem good in theory… until it’s analyzed logically (for contrast, think of contraception as the “great murder/rape/theft preventer”, since a non-existent person [who would have existed, had contraception not been used] cannot be murdered, raped or mugged; it seems rather silly to think of contraception as a deterrent for these things, yes?).
The “numbers on the ground” back this up, as well: a majority of women who seek abortions were contracepting at the time… and they viewed abortion as simply one more [perhaps distasteful] type of “back-up contraception”. Couple that with the fact that the “safe sex” myth strips away several inhibitions against casual sex–and that frequent casual sex usually leads to a sustained (or increased) appetite for sex–and you’re left with a “pool” of people who are having sex far more frequently, in circumstances where children would be unwelcome. Surely you can see how this would skew the numbers?
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Paladin- Thank you for your input. I hear what you’re saying, but I feel that any steps taken to prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancies are worth taking. I have friends who conceived while on bc, and I know that no method is 100% effective- I don’t even touch abstinence, because it goes against science in terms of our evolutionary history, and as is seen in the states with the highest prevalence of abstinence-only sex ed, it doesn’t work for most people.
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Ok, I joke about being old, I’m not really that old, but:
I grew up in a community where although abortion was legal if you drove to the nearest big city, abortion was unspeakable socially. Which means, me and my friends became sexually active after Roe v Wade but before there was a Planned Parenthood on every corner. Boys could get condoms but it was a small community where the pharmacist was sure to call your parents (we thought). Guess what we used for birth control? Brace yourself: Self control.
I learned about the birds and the bees from my mother, thank God, though she was extremely embarrassed when she first started speaking. (I didn’t get my sex ed from a condom tossing PP rep who came to school in hopes of garnering future abortion customers).
When my mother told me about sex, she knew that in the middle of a woman’s cycle she is most fertile. She didn’t tell me to use the rhythm method, lol, her form of birth control was “if some boy gets you pregnant, you’re getting married!” which was pretty effective. Long story short, me and my friends did practice self control. After losing our virginity, we didn’t launch into crazy promiscuous behavior. Boys exerted pressure, sure, but they would back off if we reminded them that our fathers knew their fathers, etc.
I did not feel oppressed. No one was interferring with my “reproductive freedom.” I know that it seems so crazy to the young folks today and we must seem like dinosaurs. But seriously, is it too much to ask for people to just stop and think, “Is having sex right this minute really prudent? Or should we wait for another occaision?”
Is that so very difficult? Because it seems to me that if a male is pressuring a female for sex against her better judgement, there’s a bigger problem there than whether or not I pay for your hormone pills.
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If you’re uploading a “pic for choice”, you can’t possibly be THAT pro-life, can you? This is a life-or-death struggle, not a popularity contest. Grow up.
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“Belinda” is obviously a troll, which is someone who goes to a website that has a particular view and argues the opposite. By which, we know, “Belinda” is pro-abortion and thinks that by saying she’s pro-life she might “shame” us.
Let’s just pretend, hypothetically, that we will have to answer to all the dead babies when we die. You go into the Afterlife Judgement room and sit down in your chair and a whole host of aborted children get to ask you questions. Who would like to face them and say, “Well, I would have done more to protect you, but I didn’t want anyone not to like me.”
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Gee, I wonder why Belinda and other pro-lifers don’t get along. Could it be she’s too busy calling them obscene names? :P
Write like a big girl next time, Belinda, and your comment can stay.
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Ninek
You were very blessed to have a mom that taught you write from wrong.
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(*sigh*) The only reasonable response to some people is the delete/ban button, I’m afraid.
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I hear it angers demons when you call them by their true names. *snicker*
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8:29 post
typo: right not write.
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Well, Belinda. Aren’t you classy? It would be difficult for me to be a “gay boy” since I’m a married woman with 3 kids. :) Have a nice day.
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Hi Kel, I happened to be unfortunate enough to see what ‘Belinda’ wrote in that comment. It was pointless, needless and ridiculous. Although I have no authority I would like to offer apologies to you on behalf of all pro-choicers, especially us atheist ones.
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Hey Reality – don’t sweat it. You don’t need to apologize for something you didn’t say.
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Gosh, I’m sorry I missed Belinda’s posts… could we have an archive of the best?
Ashtar – thanks for your kind words. And thanks for engaging in this discussion in such a friendly and respectful tone. I may disagree with you profoundly on some important points, but I certainly do respect you as a person.
But… to those points of profound disagreement!
Is the fetus (a) a person (b) not a person?
I’m convinced it’s (a). And even if I weren’t 100% sure it was (a), what if there’s a 50/50 chance it’s a person? If we’re dealing with life and death we need to be darn sure it’s not a person before saying abortion is ok, because if it IS a person, then we’re killing somebody.
Now of course a woman has rights over her own body. But also, if the fetus is a person, SHE has rights over HER body. So you have a situation where the rights of two people conflict. Which should win out here?
Again, it’s not going to happen in my body, so maybe I feel differently; but surely both a man and a woman could think alike on this: that the right to life, of the person in the womb, has to come before the right to self-direction of the person whose womb it is?
This is, of course, leaving on one side all the other good things about not having an abortion – like having a baby! Ready or not, somehow you GET ready! Extra chromosome or not!
Did I mention that when I was conceived my mother was a youngish, childless widow, living in social housing, whose late husband (it turned out) had been infertile… so when she had an affair with a married man… imagine her surprise!
That REALLY messed up her life, she thought… and obviously, what was she going to do, but get rid of this inconvenient new life. Except… it was a LIFE. It was me! And I think, though I’m not the perfect son, she never regretted hanging onto me. I sure am glad she did.
When we say we’re pro-life, we really are pro-LIFE in all it’s surprising, messy, unpredictable beauty. Let’s not control everything – the only things you can control are machines… let’s let life do its thing, let the chips fall where they will… we’ll figure it out, just like our grandparents did. And at least there will be life, not death.
So… rant rant rant…
My question is, is the fetus (a) a person (b) not a person?
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Just found an incredibly moving quote on the German website referenced above, which has picked up on this thread. An anonymous commenter says basically “if only we had an anti-abortion movement like that”… and then
Aber wir haben ja schon viel Erfahrung damit, wegzusehen
which means “but we have a lot of experience in looking the other way”. Safe bet this is someone born long after WW2 but still taking responsibility for the national sin of looking the other way. Let’s not let that be our sin with regard to abortion.
Kein wegzusehen!
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Is the fetus (a) a person (b) not a person?
I’m convinced it’s (a). And even if I weren’t 100% sure it was (a), what if there’s a 50/50 chance it’s a person? If we’re dealing with life and death we need to be darn sure it’s not a person before saying abortion is ok, because if it IS a person, then we’re killing somebody.
Joshua, it’s not, and this is what has pro-lifers riled up. It’s an attributed status, and pro-lifers want that status to be attributed to the unborn.
On the “somebody” you mention – I agree that this plays a part, at least for me. That’s a good question – when is “somebody” really there? To me, “somebody” implies at least some degree of personality, emotion, mental awareness, sentience, etc., which develops over time in most fetuses.
If my body was kept alive by medical means – oxygenated blood and nutrients pumped through my arteries – there would still be a living body there, a human being. This could be true even if my brain had been removed. In that case, while the living organism would certainly still be present, I think the “somebody” – the person that I was, would be long gone. My opinion.
“if only we had an anti-abortion movement like that”
As for Germany, Hitler was as anti-choice as you could get. He was all for people having abortions that he thought weren’t fit to breed, basically, (there was a Nazi law to prevent “congenitally defective births”), and he was against abortions for Aryans – abortion was outlawed for Germans, with exceptions for Jews and those seen as not worthy to procreate. The Nazis did not originate all of this themselves – some of the thinking and practice had begun during the Weimar years.
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This is how AGAINST women many of us are…. I spend two days of my week volunteering ( that is when my services rendered are not PAID for) as a counselor at a crisis pregnancy center. I speak to women about this so called choice and I find that many of them feel they have no choice. I find it funny that the pro life ministry in our area offers free and I mean FREE services such as testing and counseling and referrals and the wonderful open minded liberals charge out the rear and provide NOTHING for free. Yeah, we hate women so much but how many times a week do you hold someone’s hand who sobs uncontrollably b/c they will never get to hold their baby and can’t change it ? Abortion is murdering one and leaving another wounded and getting paid in the process ! Women deserve more than abortion !
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