A phone call from President Obama? Conservative women not holding their breath
The fact is, “slut” is one of the nicer things I’ve been called over 20 years of public life….
Self-serving opponents argue that such attacks do not represent “respectable,” “mainstream” liberal opinion about their conservative female counterparts. But it was feminist godmother Gloria Steinem who called Texas Republican Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison a “female impersonator.” It was NOW leader Patricia Ireland who commanded her flock to only vote for “authentic” female political candidates….
It was Keith Olbermann, then at MSNBC and now at Al Gore’s Current TV, who wrote on Twitter that columnist S.E. Cupp was “a perfect demonstration of the necessity of the work Planned Parenthood does” and who called me a “mashed up bag of meat with lipstick on it.” He stands by those remarks. Olbermann has been a special guest at the White House….
A reporter asked Obama to comment on examples of liberal hate speech at Tuesday’s press conference. He whiffed, of course….
So no, we won’t get any phone calls from Mr. Civility. Acknowledging the war on conservative women would obliterate The Narrative. Enjoy the silence.
~ Michelle Malkin (pictured), Townhall.com, March 7
[Photo via conservativeamericanvet]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Though I in no way condone the language of Rush Limbaugh, I totally agree the terrible language goes both ways with the left having a blind eye for their own faults. I would like to hear civil discourse carried on in a civil manner as did our forefathers and mothers who all had beautiful command of the English language. How about Patrick Henry and Abraham Lincoln and all the framers of the constitution. I remember being called “Goodie Two Shoes” by my peers because I did not believe in sex before marriage. No one ever asked me why. Even so, I would have been to ashamed to reveal that one of my grandmothers had been an unwed mother and that my mother was raised in a foster home and went on to make sure such a thing did not happen in the future. In this day and age, I may very well have been aborted.
By all means, please keep doing posts about the Sandra Fluke scuffle, it keeps it in the spotlight and keeps the Republican’s opposition to birth control, a total losing proposition, in the spotlight.
Check out some of the hate Patricia Heaton received lately for implying grown women should be responsible for their own birth control-she was drive to close her twitter account temporarily because of the barrage of hate:
http://moronicprochoicequotes.blogspot.com/2012/03/actress-patricia-heaton-driven-off.html
The feigned outrage of the Democrat/media complex never ceases to amaze. Nothing Limbaugh has said compares with the endless defamation of the pro-life movement by liberal feminists in newspaper columns across the nation and world. There is no outcry at all when we are mocked, ridiculed, slandered and profaned on a daily basis. We are treated as criminals and lunatics for merely seeking to save the lives of innocent unborn children.
As I said in an earlier comment, libs have been celebrating the death of a father of four for the last week (Andrew Breitbart) and they are gonna lecture US on civility?
All I can can say, is that the Left shines upon conservative women the hot hot hate of a million suns. That’s all they can do. Their reaction only solidifies us. Plus, we can take it.
well its like i pointed out on another thread. conservative blundering = you must endlessly apologize and nobody will ever forget. liberal = oh come on its all in good fun. dont apologize. i will give you a few examples why arent the liberals demanding Bill Maher to apologize for calling trig palin and george bush ” retards “? i thought some libs were asking people to stop bullying people who were retarded. is maher an acception to the rule? also plenty have called sarah palin a stupid slut from the left. apology? ( sound the crickets ) racial remarks made by left lunatic sandra bernhardt ” i hope sarah palin is raped by a group of black men.” first mistake? i guess its okay to wish rape on a woman. second mistake? racial remark. apology? nope. Joy Behar ” Im sure the Jews used humor to pass the time in the concentration camps.” Sherry Shepard “what are you talking about? im sure humor wasnt a part of their day.” Behar ” oh im sure it was.” Joy fired? never!
wow mpcq thats a shame P. Heaton is from the same suburb as i am. Bay Village. i grew up a few houses away from sam shepard ( famous murder case) Heatons brother still writes for the local paper here. I really like her.
Me too, Heather. She implied that Fluke should be responsible for her own bc like the grown woman she is. Naturally the libs went nuts at any hint of personal accountability.
mpc thanks for the link – I didn’t know Patricia Heaton was so funny in person. She is great. It is nice to see a celeb who is not a leftist zombie!!
I have also found Ms. Malakin’s politicial commentary very insightful. She is a bright woman.
MPQ, do you STILL not understand how insurance works? Sandra Fluke isn’t asking for some kind of handout; she PAYS for the insurance plan she holds. You still haven’t answered the critical question here: if you have insurance, and your insurance plan covered prenatal care and childbirth expenses, then why didn’t you just foot the bill yourself? Why not apply the rhetoric of “personal responsibility” to having children, which is also entirely elective?
Megan,
When you add to your existing coverage, your insurance cost increases. That’s pretty simple to understand. Money going towards BC for every woman in the U.S. takes away from the pool of funds available for more expensive health care. With the age of the U.S. population shifting higher, more resources will be needed for them. Should we sacrifice Grandma’s eye surgery (or insert needed treatment) so college girls get “no-copay” BC? That’s bad money management and short-sighted.
Also, the character of Debra Barone makes one of the worst arguments in favor of motherhood and domesticity on cable television. Just sayin’.
The idea that we will need to triage healthcare for grandma is a lie designed to generate hysteria. You’ve all said it yourselves here: birth control isn’t that expensive. Prioritizing preventive care is actually a very smart way to structure an insurance plan.
An unplanned pregnancy costs way more than an IUD that can be left in place for five years. Also, women who want to prevent a pregnancy from occurring aren’t thinking about preparing their bodies for pregnancy, obviously, which is why women with unplanned pregnancies (and their babies) have way worse health outcomes than women who have children intentionally. Yes, I’d rather subsidize the costs of Ortho Tri-Cyclen than the costs associated with treating preeclampsia or extreme prematurity.
Breitbart’s bequeathment to conservatives is a simple one:
Don’t back down — double down!
Take it or leave it.
Megan, you’d rather subsidize abortion than pregnancy. You’re one of those women who just don’t get the whole thing about why birth is natural and abortion is unnatural (i.e. see Megan’s shiny degree).
“Yes, I’d rather subsidize the costs of Ortho Tri-Cyclen than the costs associated with treating preeclampsia or extreme prematurity.”
And there we have it folks. The “pro-choice” truth at last. A pregnant woman is the least valuable, least important type of woman.
Limbaugh’s program is now running a lot of free public service advertisements to fill ad space, which he’s never done before.
The American Heart Association has asked that its free advertising be pulled.
As my statement clearly says, I’m all for preventing unplanned, unwanted pregnancies from occurring–pregnancies that can have very, very poor health consequences for both mom and baby. It’s news to me that advocating for appropriate preventive care means that I want all pregnant women to have abortions, or that I don’t want my insurance to cover prenatal care. Patently false.
Please, keep up the pathetic attempts to paint me as some kind of woman-hater. I should rememeber that these attacks are coming from folks who make provincial Afghani warlords look like exemplars of reproductive health advocacy. Low-cost birth control, blahh! What’s a little hypertension or post-partum hemorrhage, eh, as long as that ho is punished for having teh_sex??
Here it goes again! Is this about birth control coverage or the lack of civility of the left? It happens so easily doesn’t it??
Megan,
Yes, birth control is not that expensive UNTIL you multiply the cost by the number of women in an insurance program.
Also, women who want to prevent a pregnancy from occurring aren’t thinking about preparing their bodies for pregnancy, obviously, which is why women with unplanned pregnancies (and their babies) have way worse health outcomes than women who have children intentionally.
I think that’s an exaggeration just to justify abortion. And pregnancy is not a disease! It does not naturally destroy the body from the inside out, contrary to what your liberal women’s studies classes have taught you.
Don’t back down — double down!
That’s what Rush did.
:)
mp,
WOW, I’ve listened to Limbaugh more this week than I have in the last month.
Fluke was a plant. with several states being hit by those powerful tornadoes you mean to tell me Obama had time to pick up the phone to call Fluke? he didnt have bigger fish to fry? nah it doesnt pass the smell test.
Megan, I will pray for you. You are obviously a very misguided, young woman who has no children (unless you have aborted ones in Heaven also praying for you). You may never understand why we feel the way we do. You may never come to see the beauty that only motherhood can bestow upon a woman. That alone makes me sad for you. I hope you eventually seek the Truth and recognize the lies your culture keeps feeding you for what they are. God bless you. As I said, I will pray for you. Right now.
Y’all–Megan HAS to believe in every kind of contraception. She HAS to believe in abortion as a force for good. Because if it’s not, well, then what was that degree all about?
PS–Megs, many of us moms here have degrees. I have a few. Infinitely worth a million times less than my babies. Not even close.
Megan, if it’s so inexpensive, remind me again why we are violating the principles of millions of Americans and forcing them through insurance to pay for other people’s reproductive choice? Was it every really about “choice”?
WOW, I’ve listened to Limbaugh more this week than I have in the last month.
That’s great!
this:
Megan, if it’s so inexpensive, remind me again why we are violating the principles of millions of Americans and forcing them through insurance to pay for other people’s reproductive choice? Was it every really about “choice”?
i just might start listening to Rush;)
“remind me again why we are violating the principles of millions of Americans and forcing them through insurance to pay for other people’s reproductive choice?”
If you don’t like “Paying for other people’s healthcare” (which isn’t what insurance even is), then don’t buy an insurance plan and pay for all of YOUR CHOICES out of pocket.
Problem solved.
the pill is pretty much free at any PP isnt it? so the taxpayers foot the bill for that and pro aborts must be too lazy to take it otherwise why is our abortion rate so high?
Lrning: “And there we have it folks. The ‘pro-choice’ truth at last. A pregnant woman is the least valuable, least important type of woman. ”
That’s OK. They’ll opt out of social security when they become eligible for benefits paid for by children raised by the hard work of others. ‘Cause they have integrity!
Pregnancy is actually good for a woman..
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/unborn-child-just-a-parasite-cutting-edge-science-shows-fetal-cells-heal-mo/
yes indeed had Fluke been a single mom asking for help with child care to finish school shed be the laughing stock. get your lazy behind to PP miss Fluke and let your boyfriend(s) pay for your birth control. you are worth a years supply of BC pills arent you. thanks for making women look dumb yet again.
yes indeed had Fluke been a single mom asking for help with child care to finish school shed be the laughing stock. get your lazy behind to PP miss Fluke and let your boyfriend(s) pay for your birth control. you are worth a years supply of BC pills arent you. thanks for making women look dumb yet again.
You obviously didn’t read Fluke’s testimony, but that’s OK!
It simply fuels the controversy.
:)
Megan,
The reason it’s entirely logically consistent to refuse to subsidize the sex lives of others by paying for contraception/abortion but to pay for prenatal care is that in a pregnancy, there’s an innocent party involved – the child. S/he had no control over the choices of his/her parents, and thus s/he is entitled to health care. In a pregnancy, health care for the mother is also health care for the innocent child.
But if you want to open your own organization for the sole purpose of providing free contraception to women, go right ahead! No one is stopping you. All we ask is that you (or the government) don’t force the Catholic Church to contribute.
Also, I have a B.A., AND I work full-time in my field, AND I’ve been married for over 10 years AND I’m the joyful mother of six (four on earth, two in heaven). And all that without free contraception!
I think that, so long as we are on the topic of fairness, then it is our duty to evaluate all arguments, well, fairly.
Megan did not say that pregnancy is bad, that pregnancy is a disease, and that all women should choose abortion. To stretch her argument out to the point that it is no longer what she is arguing is nothing more than a strawman. To argue that feminists just want women to be at war with their bodies is a slap across the face for feminists. After all, it is not feminists who tell women to be thin and it is not feminists who set up such a patriarchal culture that pregnancy feels like a prison, even if it shouldn’t be.
Now, we have to be just: pro-choicers use the strawman fallacy, too. I have heard pro-choicers argue, “Well clearly pro-lifers just want to take away women’s right to vote!” And we need to call out people on their fallacies because that is in no way what any pro-lifer is arguing. However: this gives us no right to mutate Megan’s arguments in a bid to make her sound extreme and misogynistic.
“That’s OK. They’ll opt out of social security when they become eligible for benefits paid for by children raised by the hard work of others. ‘Cause they have integrity!”
_____________________________
This reminds me of Ayn Rand, who spent her life railing against government, then signed up for Medicare. ‘Cause she had integrity.
hey moot point whats up? you never did answer my question yesterday. gee i wonder why.
Vannah-Megan has a history here on this board. She has made it perfectly clear how she feels time and time again.
It does not matter that she believes every woman should or should not have an abortion. As long as she believes that murder as an option CAN BE a good choice for SOME WOMEN (like herself), then really, what else is there to say? She has showed her hand, and it covered in her child’s blood.
When a person realizes that abortion is wrong, it is the first step toward healing. BUT, that healing is not painless: it means accepting your part in the murder of your own child. It means accepting your part in the murder of other people’s children, in the case of abortion advocates such as Megan, Joan, and cc for example. The emotional block is too thick and the price of healing to high for them yet. But fortunately, many post-abortive mothers and fathers do heal and I’m happy to say that many become active in the pro-life movement. I attended a benefit once where every lady at our table had “children in heaven.”
You never know when today’s Megan or Joan becomes tomorrows pro-life advocate who speaks up to protect the pre-born. Where there’s life, there’s hope. Being bitter and post-abortive doesn’t have to last. It’s never too late to embrace life.
hey moot point whats up? you never did answer my question yesterday. gee i wonder why.
What is your question?
But, make it fast because I’ve work to do.
hey mp i know you have trouble remembering things… i asked you the same question twice. lets try for a third shall we? i asked you if it was okay with you that sandra bernhardt said she hoped Palin would be raped by ” a group of black men ” apology due or not?
i asked you if it was okay with you that sandra bernhardt said she hoped Palin would be raped by ” a group of black men ” apology due or not?
I don’t even know who Sandra Bernhardt is but, if the woman said such a thing, she’s a despicable character.
There’s nothing new about personal attacks and name-calling. There’s someone here, for example, called “moronic” who called me a “mangina,” which I had to look up.
Do you think she owes me an apology?
thats a great post ninek. i came over from the pro choice side after realizing birth control and abortion ruins womens lives and keeps them in bondage. thats funny mp…….you had plenty of time to troll around with the entire Rush thing but this makes twice you gotta go? lol troll
mp…….you had plenty of time to troll around with the entire Rush thing but this makes twice you gotta go?
I answered your question. What do you expect from me, contrition because I failed to answer it soon enough?
:)
law says:
If you don’t like “Paying for other people’s healthcare” (which isn’t what insurance even is), then don’t buy an insurance plan and pay for all of YOUR CHOICES out of pocket.
Come now, surely you’ve heard of the individual responsibility provision. You’re not recommending someone break the law are you?
well actually thank you mp. that was quite an appropriate response. dont know what a mangina is but i wouldnt let it bother me too much.
dont know what a mangina is but i wouldnt let it bother me too much.
A very skillful cop-out and I expected as much but, hey, that’s OK!
It’s only politics.
i wasnt coping out. i wouldnt put it up there with rape or racism. idk what you even said or what gender you are. idk who sandra bernhardt is….shes just one of those “not funny” comedians and Madonnas former lover. trust me i think everyone has forgotten her and i guess thats why she said this. maybe to jump start her failed career. do yourself a favor and go back to not knowing who she is.
maybe to jump start her failed career.
Ah, she jumped the shark; exactly what Limbaugh did.
do yourself a favor and go back to not knowing who she is.
With my filters, that’s very easy to do.
Vannah,
You are correct, Megan did not say pregnancy is a disease (not that I recall). That it is NOT, is a point I wanted to emphasize. It’s a natural process that the body is equipped to handle. The key to stopping pregnancy from occurring is stopping procreative activity, as you know.
After all, it is not feminists who tell women to be thin and it is not feminists who set up such a patriarchal culture that pregnancy feels like a prison, even if it shouldn’t be.
Those women’s studies classes are going to poison your good brain, Vannah!! If you want to learn how to hate men and blame them for your problems for the rest of your life, keep taking them. I hate the word patriarchy because it’s used as a scapegoat by unhappy women. Patriarchy schmatriarchy. I happen to like men, can you tell? They aren’t perfect, but neither are we (women).
“Come now, surely you’ve heard of the individual responsibility provision. You’re not recommending someone break the law are you?”
The IR provision is not implemented until 2014 and there are exemptions available for the low-income and for the religious who object.
Here’s a factsheet you would receive if you were covered by BXBS.
https://www.bcbsri.com/BCBSRIWeb/pdf/Individual_Mandate_Fact_Sheet.pdf
i was just sayin mp…..ive been called a crazy fundi and ani woman anti choice thats okay. i might even laugh if i were called a mangina but id never find it okay for someone to say ” gee i wish all the women from NOW or Naral would be raped.” or same to Fluke. i just dont find that appropriate no matter how much we disagree. Rape is an act of violence never to be joked about.
law says:
The IR provision is not implemented until 2014 and there are exemptions available for the low-income and for the religious who object.
Well, there ya go, Chris. As long as you’re poor or Amish, follow law’s advice and “problem solved”!
Did I call you a mangina, mp? I meant to say emasculated douchebag. My bad. Your whining rings kinda hollow considering how many times you’ve called me a nazi. Take off that white hood, you’ll see better when typing. LOL @ you having to look it up. Try looking up sniveling little moron next time-you might find your own picture there as an example. I see the stocks of all the sponsors who bailed on Rush are dropping. Muahaha.
Michelle Malkin… Oh Yessss….
Your whining rings kinda hollow considering how many times you’ve called me a nazi.
Anyone who preaches that tolerance “is a refuge for the spineless and those without conviction” deserves to be shunned.
But, by all means, continue to spout your trash.
And by all means continue your whining. Proves my point.
And by all means continue your whining. Proves my point.
Moronic, you will end up jumping the shark, just like Limbaugh did, in a never-ending quest to top yourself.
By the time you’re done, you’re going to be in a very lonely place.
Sorry, but that’s how it works with all shock jock types.
The unfortunate part is that you will do enormous damage to the so-called “pro-life” movement in the process with your hate-filled rhetoric.
ROFL again at mp-he’s so ‘tolerant’ he’s shunning me. Thanks for the good laugh.
I’m glad you find me as threatening to your stupidity as Rush, mp. Not that it’s hard. Have a nice day, peace and luvvv. See ya.
Thanks for the good laugh.
My pleasure!
:)
LOL @ mangina. That’s just what she calls people when she doesn’t have a real argument against what they say.
Some of the crap that people have spewed at Palin and Malkin, or Hilary Clinton or Michele Obama is simply disgusting. Makes both sides look childish.
JoAnna:
Exactly. A child is an innocent party, therefore, the choice to give birth should be covered, whereas contraception and abortion should not. Plus, having children is a benefit to society. Today’s babies are tomorrow’s tax payers. Having a hassle-free orgasm contributes nothing to the country.
“You still haven’t answered the critical question here: if you have insurance, and your insurance plan covered prenatal care and childbirth expenses, then why didn’t you just foot the bill yourself?”
because dirtbag, prenatel care and chiildbirth is healthcare. BCP’s and abortion pills, MAP’s are not.
I grow tired of the non sequitur argument — that Birth Control costs less than childbirth.
Birth Control is spent and wasted. There is nothing of value that comes from birth control (which is exactly what the users desire and get — nothing).
A child costs money to birth, feed, educate and raise to maturity. This process has many joys. But even more importantly, the young adult is now a lifetime of contribution — economic, cultural, and spiritual. Wage earning, tax-paying, marrying-and-family-raising, economy producting, social contribution.
The cost of childbirth is an investment that repays many times over.
Birth control is money down the drain. Our most hopeful social programs — Medicare and Social Security — are insolvent, because of birth control. Our economy is in a permanent slump, because of birth control.
We cannot afford more birth control. It is too expensive — even if we reduce people to mere “economic units.” If we count the teenage pregnancies, divorced marriages, and impoverished single moms — the cost of contraception is tragic.
Why do we keep investing in contraception?
I don’t need an argument against stupid, Jack. Stupid is self refuting. Get back to me when mp has some actual talking points.
Nah, it wouldn’t matter if he did have points besides snark, last time I disagreed with you your entire response was “You’re wrong mangina!!!” and repeating what you had already said. I haven’t seen you actually try to refute anyone yet. It’s mostly just insults. Which is amusing, but doesn’t get your points across particularly well.
“A child costs money to birth, feed, educate and raise to maturity. This process has many joys. But even more importantly, the young adult is now a lifetime of contribution — economic, cultural, and spiritual. Wage earning, tax-paying, marrying-and-family-raising, economy producting, social contribution”
That’s all well and good, but what about people who don’t want kids? Unwanted children have a heck of a time growing up, I don’t think encouraging people to have children they don’t want is going to fix the issues we have going on. I am against the mandate, but really, I would rather have someone be able to prevent an unwanted pregnancy rather than have that baby killed in abortion or abused when they are born to parents that don’t want them. It’s not just money that’s the issue with people not wanting kids.
‘Nah it wouldn’t matter’ because he has none and neither have you. Guess you missed my rather long and sourced refutations here recently then, Jack. Your obvious dislike of me does nothing for your barely existent arguments, either. Prolife, you ain’t. You’re completely useless to the prolife cause.
Well, if you define pro-life as socially conservative Christian I am certainly not “pro-life”. If you define it as “believing that human life should be protected from conception to natural death, and working towards that end”, I certainly am. I am pretty sure any babies I save don’t care about my stances on gay rights and feminism. Sad that you try to alienate anyone who doesn’t fit into a little box of what you think is necessary to be “truly” pro-life.
Hate to be off topic, but this is the only thread apparently moderately active. I saw Helen Alvare on EWTN tonight and she spoke about the absurdity of the so-called “war on women” Democrats are talking about. (If you don’t know her, she is a law professor and formerly the spokesperson for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops on pro-life issues). She has started a petition and “open letter” to the Obama administration insisting that they do not speak for all women, and supporting the Church in its fight for first amendment freedom and the true good of women.
It now has some 7,000 signatures, ranging from professional women with multiple degrees to simple housewives. I urge every woman to sign (you don’t have to be Catholic).
http://www.womenspeakforthemselves.com
Helen is very impressive to listen to. She’s dynamite, in fact. In a debate, she’d pound Sandra Fluke into the ground. Just sayin’
Wait, when did I miss the pamphlet telling me that pregnancy is a prison because of men? Hmmm. I rather feel like I’m a co-creator that is doing very important work when I’m pregnant. Any day now I will impart personhood on my male fetus. I’m already dilating!
Feminists absolutely do act like the natural, feminine ability to gestate and birth new human beings is a disease. Thats why they call birth control pills which are designed to sabotage the body’s natural ability to conceive, “medicine”.
“I don’t think encouraging people to have children they don’t want is going to fix the issues we have going on“. What’s your solution then, Jack, abortion? Prolife personally but prochoice politically?
I couldn’t care less if you’re gay. And pandering to feminists, the architects of the culture of death, is really gonna recriminalize abortion. Like I said, useless. You’re not willing to stand up against the promoters of the abortion ideology, but perfectly willing to throw other prolifers under the bus because you don’t like some of their methods. Like I said, useless. Enjoy the view from atop the fence, where you’ll no doubt remain, ineffectively passing judgment while you tell others how to get it done. Writing you off as the loss you are.
Amen, Sydney. Anyone who thinks feminists are pro motherhood needs to take a stroll through my blog sometime.
“Megan did not say that pregnancy is bad, that pregnancy is a disease, and that all women should choose abortion.”
Megan said that childbirth is entirely elective. That’s only true if you assume that pregnancy can either be perfectly prevented or that a woman must avail herself of the “right” to abortion. Otherwise, there is nothing elective about having children.
In addition, healthcare treats or prevents a disease, or illness. If contraception is healthcare then either pregnancy is a disease or a woman’s natural state of fertility is.
” What’s your solution then, Jack, abortion? Prolife personally but prochoice politically?”
Good lord no. Abortion isn’t the answer, ever. Abortion should be illegal. I was commenting on Del’s anti-bc comments. I think that we fail when we ignore the fact that some people don’t want children, most are still going to have sex, and I would rather see those people prevent pregnancies than abort them. Babies aren’t treated like blessings by everyone, especially when they don’t want them. I don’t want children aborted, nor do I want them to grow up unwanted.
”
I couldn’t care less if you’re gay. And pandering to feminists, the architects of the culture of death, is really gonna recriminalize abortion ”
I’m not gay, I was just throwing my stance on gay rights out there as an example of something you told me once made me an advocate for perversion, LOL. And personally, I have gotten several friends of mine to turn from pro-choice to pro-life by NOT immediately making them an “other”, but talking to them about shared goals and the consistency and ethical basis of the pro-life position. On the other hand, I have seen people who might otherwise be persuaded turned away by the name calling and such. We can’t convince anyone if they automatically see our side as a threat and an enemy.
I argue with abortion advocates less than I do other pro-lifers on this blog, sure. People like Joan and Megan have been coming here for years, what am I going to say to convince them, exactly, that y’all haven’t said already?
Having a hassle-free orgasm contributes nothing to the country.”
Hassle-free orgasms keep women in the workforce, actually, considering that 46% of women over age 20 are employed.
“because dirtbag, prenatel care and chiildbirth is healthcare. BCP’s and abortion pills, MAP’s are not.”
Well that’s interesting. Are you planning to call up the Institute of Medicine or the National Institutes of Health to inform them of this brilliant revelation?
“Feminists absolutely do act like the natural, feminine ability to gestate and birth new human beings is a disease.”
No, feminists just don’t let a starry-eyed love of fetuses convince themselves that all women love being pregnant and having babies. It’s called not being entirely self-absorbed.
Fair enough. I misjudged your position on abortion, and I apologize. I still don’t think supporting feminism is helpful, but it’s your call.
I think that we fail when we ignore the fact that some people don’t want children, most are still going to have sex, and I would rather see those people prevent pregnancies than abort them.
None of which has a THING to do with mandating that people receive it “for free” ie that we all have to pay for birth control whether you’re a gung ho supporter or opposed. It’s not “can’t we all just get along” once you’re forcing those that disagree w/ you to subsidize your voluntary recreational behavior.
Hassle-free orgasms keep women in the workforce, actually, considering that 46% of women over age 20 are employed.
Possibly the most anti-feminist comment ever. How have I managed to stay in the workplace without my hassle free orgasms. NAY without having someone else PAY FOR my hassle free orgasms. It’s a flipping miracle.
No prob, MPCQ, I apologize for being snarky with you too.
CT, I am against the mandate. I have said it like fifteen times but I will say it again. I am against the mandate, I think it violates religious freedom. I was responding to Del’s comments about being against bc, particularly with regards to the “babies are expensive, but they bring joy!!” line of thought. People don’t always love kids or see them as blessings. :/
Megan: “Hassle-free orgasms keep women in the workforce, actually, considering that 46% of women over age 20 are employed.”
Taking that a step further, the economy would tank without women having access birth control and thus being forced to take more leave or leave work altogether to care for pregnancies and children. It’s just not possible to return to a fantasy version of the 50’s where men worked and women stayed at home. Unless, of course, you ask men’s rights activists who believe that women are stealing all the men’s jobs. -_-
“Feminists absolutely do act like the natural, feminine ability to gestate and birth new human beings is a disease.”
Notice how no one says that a man getting a boner is a “natural, masculine ability” or that taking a massive dump is a “natural human ability.” Bodily functions are not “abilities.” Flying fighter jets is an ability (and I am best friends with a childfree woman who flies for the US Army). Reproducing is something any cockroach can do.
There’s really nothing more insulting than the insinuation that childfree or childless women are somehow lacking in femininity or ability.
It’s called not being entirely self-absorbed.
Haaa… almost spit my drink on my keyboard with that one.
Reproducing is something any cockroach can do.
Oh. How sweet. And yet… it still ISN’T a disease.
“There’s really nothing more insulting than the insinuation that childfree or childless women are somehow lacking in femininity or ability.”
Being called breeders, sperm incubators, stunt birthers and slaves by abortion zealots isn’t insulting at all though. Giggle.
Having a hassle free orgasm isn’t an ability either, ‘law’-any two alley cats can do it. The difference between the alley cats and you? The cats don’t murder their young if the hassle free orgasm produces results. Not too hard to tell who the more enlightened species is. Meow.
Oh. How sweet. And yet… it still ISN’T a disease.
Stupidity, hate, prejudice, credulity, thoughtless piety and totalitarianism aren’t diseases either but some of us go out of our way to prevent them.
Megan-
I’ll pay for your birth control when you pay for my ammunition.
“Having a hassle free orgasm isn’t an ability either, ‘law’-any two alley cats can do it”
I am fairly certain that alley cats do not have orgasms. I suppose it might be possible for the male (doubtful) but the female does not have the anatomy. When cats mate it is a quick proposition lasting usually less than a minute at at time, and the female is caused pain by the spines on the male’s penis, which induces ovulation. At that point she violently attacks the male, although he will have another go at it when she lets her guard down again far enough.
“The difference between the alley cats and you? The cats don’t murder their young”
Actually cats murder and abandon their young fairly frequently. Toms will often kill an entire litter to cause the female to go back into estrus so that he can mate with her, ensuring the survival of his own offspring, and in that way they are quite like lions. Female cats will eat their young if they are extremely premature, or if they are born sickly she may abandon them to die.
LOL ‘law’-who called me a serial killer only days ago. Hypocrite. If your delicate sensibilities are so offended here, troll on back the golden coathanger blogs where you belong. Your wordy bluster has changed 0 minds. Quit wasting our time.
And I’m fairly certain you’re wrong-as usual. Get a life.
Hassle-free orgasms keep women in the workforce,
That’s one for the blog, MPQ. My mother got to work with or without the hassle free orgasms and we didn’t cling to her car tires to stop her. Nobody needs to snuff their kids to be employed.
Jack: “ Unwanted children have a heck of a time growing up”
Sure. But some of them were planned pregnancies, and became “unwanted” later. And many who were unplanned pregnancies — “unwanted” — were embraced and quickly became wanted.
It’s also WHY children are wanted that counts. Lots of girls with serious issues “want somebody to love them” — so they have a baby. Confused as hell. But contraception wouldn’t help them because these babies — fated for a crazy life with a crazy woman as their mom — were “wanted.”
I wonder how many people infer from how they see some parents treat their children, that these children were unwanted or that their conception was contrary to intention. Not a sound inference.
“LOL ‘law’-who called me a serial killer only days ago. Hypocrite.”
I’m sorry? You made statements about cats that are clearly wrong. I’ve been a cat owner for over 30 years.
People who hate and abuse animals should be viewed with extreme suspicion.
nOw, as for “wordy bluster” not convincing anyone, are you sure about that?
Here, Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry provably change over 400 people’s minds (actually it was way more than that) and deliver a definitive smackdown of Catholic apologeticists. They kept count. Fast forward to 7:40 if you want to skip the discussion (though I recommend against it). The entire debate is available on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI2WvD1gz7I
Hitchens was constantly accused of being blustery and wordy, among other things, but people do change their minds.
Law, I think MPQ was not talking about wordy bluster in particular — just “Your wordy bluster”.
And I don’t think Hitchens is often accused of “wordy bluster,” contrary to your remark. He was pretty economical with words, really.
In other words, you’re no Christopher Hitchens.
I don’t hate animals, moron. Quit with the lying. And let’s see a show of hands for all the minds you’ve changed here. I’ll wait.
LisaC: still waiting for you to explain how bc CAN cost 3 grand a year. Ready, go.
Ninek-LOL! Will post it later today.
On second though, ‘law’ you have changed my mind. Your bitter feminazi narrative is a great example of everything that’s wrong with feminists, so it’s better that you keep ranting here and being an example for the morally and intellectually bankrupt left. On that note I’m off to my volunteer job at the CPC where actual minds and hearts are being changed. Have a nice day perched in front of your computer, jobless and ready to pounce on all detractors. Joyless existence suits you. Hug your abortions for me, k?
Oooo! I love Christopher Hitchens! Great thing about him, he was Pro-Life.
When are you going to join us, law?
Hey MPQ,
If they get their BC covered, I want my tubal reversal free of charge, too.
“I’ll pay for your birth control when you pay for my ammunition.”
MPQ – I officially nominate you for the “Quote of the Year”
LOL, Ninek. If anything, I see the opposite–women who WANT to stay home with their kids and can’t afford to. Working parents have all kinds of available resources.
MPQ….you rock!
“Oooo! I love Christopher Hitchens! Great thing about him, he was Pro-Life.”
Christopher Hitchens in no way can be compared to this collection of stiffs.
He was against the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and against removing women’s right to decide what to do with their pregnancies, and was in favor of the use of RU486 as he felt it was more humane. The only thing “pro-life” about Hitchens is that he felt scientifically that the embryo is human, which is really not saying much about the debate at all, which, also unlike you, he wanted to see continue. Unlike you people, he had a very nuanced view of abortion and included pregnant women in his opinions. In his 2003 article he is, as usual, critical of the church’s stance on birth control. He was also in favor of stem cell research from zygotes that had already been created for research:
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/11/hitchens-201011
Some of his most recent quotes:
“There may be many circumstances for which it is not desirable to carry a fetus to full term. Either nature or god appears to appreciate this, since a very large number of pregnancies are ‘aborted,’ so to speak, because of malformations, and are politely known as ‘miscarriages.’ Sad though this is, it is probably less miserable an outcome than the vast number of deformed or idiot children who would otherwise have been born, or stillborn, or whose lives would have been a torment to themselves or others.” –God Is Not Great, 2007, p221
“The only proposition that is completely useless, either morally or practically, is the wild statement that sperms or eggs are all potential lives that must not be prevented from fusing and that, when united however briefly, have souls and must be protected by law.” p222
“The whole case for extending protection to the unborn, and to expressing a bias in favor of life, has been wrecked by those who use unborn children, as well as born ones, as mere manipulable objects of their doctrine.” p223
Hitchens had NOTHING good to say about religion, religionists, fundamentalists, Catholics, and hardline pro-lifers. So I guess you must not have read him very much.
“In other words, you’re no Christopher Hitchens. “
I wouldn’t dare, as your cohorts above do, compare myself to him.
“And I don’t think Hitchens is often accused of “wordy bluster,” contrary to your remark. He was pretty economical with words, really. ”
You are obviously not familiar with Hitchens, for whom linguistic economy was nearly unknown. He was elegant and pulled no punches.
Here is Hitchens accused of bluster by the Jews:
http://www.jewishideasdaily.com/content/module/2011/12/16/main-feature/1/the-trouble-with-hitchens
By Catholics:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/persecution/pch0244.htm
Is accused of being wordy:
http://www.newstatesman.com/non-fiction/2010/11/peter-wilby-book-john-tony-sex
Accused of being wordy and of sophistry:
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/hank/090105
Is accused of being “linguistically narcissistic”:
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3014
It’s almost easier to find criticisms of Hitchens than it is to find his columns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcYv9hAkenI
He also said that, and clarified that yes, he was involved in the Pro-Life Movement, or our “collection of stiffs”, as you so eloquently put it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFfNUBypo2k
The only stiffs is law’s sneering lip.
And, you’re mistaking MY position with that of the Catholic Church, with whom I am not affiliated. I have no qualms with contraception. My arguments against abortion are ones that you would find Hitchens to have considered “moral”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8HhTKzmvas&feature=related
“I wonder how many people infer from how they see some parents treat their children, that these children were unwanted or that their conception was contrary to intention. Not a sound inference. ”
No, I made that opinion from being unplanned and unwanted, and seeing how unhappy my birth made my mother, and the absolutely awful way my mother treated me, and let my father treat me. I tire of the attitude that parenthood is always this wonderful thing for everyone. Some people don’t want kids, or more kids as the case may be. I was the sixth kid, seven years younger than the closest sibling, it simply wasn’t a good thing. I see this attitude among other pro-lifers, particularly anti-birth control pro-lifers, and I think it’s dangerous. People do regret their children, some people never love or want their children, and it’s foolish to ignore it and try to shame people out of using birth control. I would rather people prevent pregnancy than abort the baby they don’t want or abuse the child that they don’t love.
Behold Bill Maher in all his ingloriousness!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ISKOD7ytSk
xalisae: Hitchens endeared a lot of us theists by valuing truth. He will be missed — which may seem an odd thing for a theist to say. That his life didn’t intersect God is lamentable. But what his life did intersect, he intersected with boundless intellectual energy — and a generation was privileged to eavesdrop.
law: “You are obviously not familiar with Hitchens”
…at which point you cite several of his critics, none of whom (to glance) I’m familiar with.
Perhaps, by way of confession, I am patient enough with his wordiness (he is certainly wordy, I grant, in xalisae’s cite above) to find it unremarkable because, alas, I can be wordy as well.
But I draw the line at bluster. He was capable of superb rhetoric, but I take “bluster” to be a crutch for those lacking wit.
He lacked little wit.
Hi JackBorsch — thanks for commenting on my post about the “cost of birth control.”
You and I will disagree on some key points — for example, I see that birth control is the primary cause of unwanted pregnancies (women engage in sex with unworthy partners, assuming they are being ”safe.” But BC often fails). You think that birth control prevents unwanted pregnancies.
That debate will rage on. But ultimately, the decision to use contraception belongs with individual couples. I’m trying to talk about the government policy concerning insurance payments.
My point is against the specific rhetoric: Those who say that Birth Control is cheaper than the cost of live birth, so the government’s insurance program should push birth control as a cost-saving measure.
My point is that birth control is an expense, spent and gone, like paying rent. Children are an investment, an asset for the future, like buying a house. From a cold and sterile analysis of economics alone, children are a better investment than birth control. Our government insurance program should favor children over birth control.
law: “I wouldn’t dare, as your cohorts above do, compare myself to him.”
Hmm. Your #comment-395355 actively invites others to compare yourself with him. Accused of being wordy and unpersuasive, you chose Hitchens as an example of someone both wordy and persuasive. This was apparently a way of suggesting that what you share in common with Hitchens cannot be held as a certain mark of failure to persuade in your case if it’s seen as not impeding persuasion in his case.
The entire point of your post depends on comparing yourself with Hitchens.
Not that doing so is arrogating anything. It seems a proper enough comparison — though IMO you’re guilty of bluster he’s not of.
“your cohorts above” (plural? really?) only appreciate his defense of the unborn against those pro-choicers so stupid that they don’t even think a fetus is a “human life”. That’s hardly making a personal comparison as you’ve done.
A nit, to be sure.
“Your #comment-395355 actively invites others to compare yourself with him”
Not even close. Implying that “wordy bluster” cannot persuade anyone, and then being shown that yes indeed it can, has nothing to do with me.
I love the Hitchens videos. As I have said, his positions were incredibly nuanced, he did not oppose women’s rights to choose, he said he considered the “occupant of the womb” to be a “candidate” member of society “at some point in the future.” He was in no way an absolutist as the religionist fundamentalists and Catholics are, so it’s curious that you would want to conscript him poshumously onto your “side” when his latest official writings prove definitively that he thought the unborn were human beings but that he did not really oppose abortion, at least not all methods of it and not in all cases. You people are extremists. He was anything but.
No one is without fault. His presumption that they were “candidate” members of society was false. And, as is typically the case in the conversion to the Pro-Life cause (of which he did state himself to be a member), it comes slowly. He wasn’t always of a mind to even give the gestating human being ANY consideration. One can only assume that, given more time, he would have given them all the consideration to which they are entitled, rather than just part of it, as he did.
I don’t happen to think there is anything “extremist” about wanting a child’s life to be protected by law at every stage rather than through only half of their stages of development.
It’s hilarious that pro-choicers pose that fetuses aren’t members of society, and therefore are not entitled to consideration — and then pose that fetuses have an incredibly intimate social relation to the mother — and for that reason, too, are fair game because that social relationship places undue demands on her if she doesn’t wish to enjoy the fetus’s society.
It’s difficult to be patient with such mercenary dishonesty.
Well – I will admit I don’t like Rush whatsoever. And what he said was completely unacceptable about any woman. And the fact that the actual woman in this case is an intelligent, articulate, and brave individual makes it even worse.
However, calling Sarah Palin the same bad name is not quite the same thing IMHO. First – she was a major public figure who said a lot of dumb things. And second, she really is a dumb ****.