Democrat gets backlash for swipe at stay-at-home mom Ann Romney
Within seconds, Rosen’s statement that Ann Romney has “never worked a day in her life” began to burn up Twitter. Mrs. Romney, after all, had raised five children, as well as dealt with MS and cancer.
That was work, no matter how much money her husband made.
~ Washington Examiner’s Byron York on events surrounding Democratic operative Hilary Rosen’s criticism of GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s wife, April 12
[HT: Laura Loo; photo via makemyfamilytree.com]
Apr.13, 2012 3:00 am |
Campaign |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Old news – apologies have already been offered…Obama shot down the attack…was relevant earlier in the week.
The guidelines seem to be
1. Speak
2. Think
(#2 is optional)
The damage is done Ex Gop. Even my 6 year old knows that “Oh, sorry.” hardly undoes what has been done!! And I for one am glad they continue to flap their yaps!!
Like the “Ramen noodles and mayo sandwiches” lady.(WI Dem Rep Gwen Moore) Keep it up and pretend you speak for the majority of American women. LOL
Meanwhile, libs are still demanding Limbaugh’s supporters pull their funding, even though he issued an apology…
Ex-RINO,
You should check out MPQ’s blog, and tell me how irrelevant this still is.
Here, I will provide a link for you, since you seem to have trouble understanding why we are talking about this. “Ann Romney” was/is trending on Twitter (that means that literally thousands of people around the country are talking about her), and here is what YOUR SIDE is saying about her in defense of Hilary Rosen’s comment. Live it, love it, own it (WARNING: HARSH LANGUAGE!):
http://moronicprochoicequotes.blogspot.com/2012/04/ann-romney-and-few-classy-liberal.html#comment-form
Obama might’ve made an offhand remark contradicting what was said, but where is Ann Romney’s phone call? Where is his outright denouncement of Hilary Rosen? Do you know she’s visited the White House more times in the last year than the flipping Secretary of Defense?! This is not some low-level operative with whom Obama has no familiarity, buddy!
Thanks for the linkage, X. Those aren’t even the worst of the comments either.
NP.
I’m tired of RINO giving Dems a pass on everything because they give him free stuff and acting like WE’RE the jackasses.
You know what they say, if it weren’t for double standard…
Well, X once he gave them a pass on the baby killing thing, I guess nothing else seemed to be a big deal.
But xalisae! Didn’t you know that double standards are a good thing as long as you are on the left? So it’s all totally fine not to be as harsh toward Democrats saying stupid/insulting/misogynist/dehumanizing stuff!
yawn. Really guys?
Interestingly enough, I’ve seen at least a dozen articles on this topic which have been written just within the last couple days. People are still discussing this everywhere.
And what’s probably bothering them is actually the fact that this actually has caused people to defend Mitt and Ann Romney, who normally might not have done so before.
If it was so yawn worthy and such old news, people like Hal and Ex-GOP wouldn’t have been bothered to comment. :D
I don’t think the people who tweeted(insults) about it are SMART enough to spell anything with more than four letters! ;)
While I agree that being a mother IS work and should be valued just as much as working outside the home – I think Rosen almost had a point. It is hard for Ann Romney to relate to women that would LOVE to stay home with their children but cannot due to financial issues.
I do think that both sides have a hard time valuing and supporting families and family friendly policies. America absolutely NEEDS a batter maternity leave policy, better child care options for low-income families, paid sick day policies, and more jobs with flexibile schedules so BOTH parents can have a better work-life balance. It’s such a bummer than in one of the most developed nations we are still so far behind when it comes to these kinds of things – even families that aren’t as fortunate money-wise as the Romneys deserve these benefits.
Elizabeth–as a former SAHM, I made a decision. My family and I went without vacations, new clothes, and new cars. SPECIFICALLY because we wanted a full time parent in the home. We did not see it as a lifestyle but as a NECESSITY, for why would we have kids if we didn’t raise them? Am I another Republican mom who just can’t relate to women’s issues?
I now work as my kids are older. You will make me laugh out loud if you ask me which job was harder. Not evern comparable.
The Romneys aren’t just fortunate. They are HARD WORKERS and GOOD STEWARDS. You gonna hold that against them??
@Elizabeth: I also think it’s a bit rich to claim that women who parent full-time don’t relate to economic issues. Why? Because it’s “their husband’s money?” Are we really dragging women that far back in time? ‘Cause that is pretty d@mn lame.
Women who work as secretaries don’t have the same experience as those who work as truck drivers, which isn’t the same as a woman who is in the military, and that’s different from a woman working in an office. Can none of them relate to each other, since they have different experiences? All that happens to a woman who decides on a career as a homemaker is that she garners a different sort of experience. That doesn’t mean the need for money evaporates or that she doesn’t have deadlines or work or things to get done.
This career vs. stay-at-home-mom fight has divided women long enough. It’s past time we put this nonsense to bed forever.
Won’t happen, Alice, as long as it’s considered a predominant cohort on one side of the culture wars. When domestic life is valued again on both sides, the war will stop.
No, I’m not saying that a woman who works outside the home works harder than a SAHM at all. I think they are both extremely hard jobs – I just feel for the women that HAVE to ~do it all~ because they have no other choice.
And I never never never said a word about women that parent full-time don’t relate to economic issues. Please don’t put words in my mouth. I find it EXTREMELY offensive when people imply that just because a woman stayed home that she doesn’t have a say or any knowledge of money issues. The fact is that within a marriage if one parent decides to work and one decides to stay home the money should be considered communal property – in my mind they BOTH worked for it. You guys are assuming a lot of things about what I’m saying when, in reality, I almost completely agree with you.
Honestly my only issue is that Ann Romney and her husband are often in support of policies that take away from women that don’t have a choice to stay at home with their children, and that I’d imagine she has a hard time relating to those that don’t have a choice either way. Not that one job is harder than another.
Courtnay, since the Romneys are richer than your family and have not had to go without do you think it is because they are harder workers or better stewards than you and your family?
This career vs. stay-at-home-mom fight has divided women long enough. It’s past time we put this nonsense to bed forever.
But Alice, I agree with you completely on this point. Hear hear.
Elizabeth, there’s always going to be a family who has more and a family who has less, then we do. It makes no sense keeping score. But with the man and 3 children I have, I am the richest woman I know.
Right, but you said simply that the Romneys are fortunate because they are hard workers and good stewards. If only the hardest workers were given the biggest rewards, I guess… it doesn’t seem to be that way in today’s society.
I’m glad you are rich in happiness though, Courtnay. That is worth much more than money, I agree. :)
Looks like Obama’s daughters still attend private school. Apparently only some are allowed to be priveleged and not raked over the coals for it. Oopsie.
Can you imagine the absolute NIGHTMARE and mess it would cause for a public school if the President’s children attended? Whether dem or republican, I think the levels of security, secret service, etc. would be too much of a burden for our already over-taxed public schools.
Not only that but I find it to be not very “family friendly” to criticize where any family decides to send their children to school – no matter how they vote. Parents should be allowed to decide what is best for their specific children without having to pander to politics, right?
I’ve never really liked the term “stay-at-home mother”. I don’t STAY at home all the time,i DO have errands to run (groceries, dr. appointments, etc.) as do MOST mothers who are still raising children (meaning children who are not away at college or adult children).
What has happened to the term “Home maker”? That’s what I do..I make a HOME for my family.
I also don’t know who came up with “working mother”..meaning mothers who work outside the home. I AM a “working” mother! Do they think taking care of children and running a household isn’t WORK?
No, what I said is that they aren;t ONLY fortunate. They have been able to do much with what they have been given. Ann, I believe, comes from some money, and Mitt comes from money and politics. Are we really going to hold that against them? Or can we look at what they have done with their lives and see it as valuable and worthy?
The American capitalistic system is far from perfect. But it woks better than any other system in the world. For those who work hard and are not getting what they want, all I can say is we cannot promise you equal outcome, only opportunity.
I work in and out of the home, as does my husband. We’ve avoided day care because we wan to be the ones raising out kids. But I understand it is the only or best option for some. Some other parents use it when they don’t really have to, like a nanny system, etc. I’d bet Hilary R would fall into that category…
Why do some parents PAY other people to take care of their children, and then turn around and say that’s not work? I don’t get it.
:) Go back to sleep, Hal.
Honestly my only issue is that Ann Romney and her husband are often in support of policies that take away from women that don’t have a choice to stay at home with their children, and that I’d imagine she has a hard time relating to those that don’t have a choice either way.
Well, did you stop to think for a moment that since she and her husband support policies that would make the private sector more profitable, they wouldn’t NEED to support policies that “contribute to women that don’t have a choice to stay at home with their children”, because the families would be profitable enough under their policies that those women would have a choice again?
I trust a successful businessman to manage my country in a hard economic time moreso than a law professor who seems to have a hard time comprehending what our system of checks and balances entails.
So now we have a “War on Moms” as well as a “War on Women’s Rights.”
:P
Elizabeth says:
While I agree that being a mother IS work and should be valued just as much as working outside the home – I think Rosen almost had a point. It is hard for Ann Romney to relate to women that would LOVE to stay home with their children but cannot due to financial issues.
That wasn’t Rosen’s point. Her point (that she clearly stated) was that Ann Romney can’t know about economic issues that are important to women because she’s “never worked a day in her life”. Hilary Rosen is crazy if she thinks that women that stay home and raise their children are not concerned about “how do we feed our kids, how do we send them to school, and why we worry about their future”.
xalisae, unfortunately there are always going to be low-income families. And, unfortunately, we cannot trust corporations to put families or children first. I would hope that family friendly policies were a non-partisan issue since both Democrats and Republicans are a part of a family at some point. Mat leave, paid sick days, affordable child care, clean air for our children to breathe, regulations on toxins in BABY BOTTLES and sippy cups, good public schools, and flexible work schedules shouldn’t get pushed behind big corporations or a partisan political line – that’s all I’m saying. I value the American family in all it’s forms.
Elizabeth,
Do you really think that Hillary Clinton, Theresa Heinz Kerry, or Michelle Obama can relate to women that would love to stay home but can’t due to financial issues (of which I am one)? Obama stated that they didn’t have the “luxury” of Michelle staying at home despite the fact that he was making approximately $160,000/year at the time. That’s more than twice what my husband and I make COMBINED, incidentally. (Translation: they weren’t willing to make the choice to downgrade their lifestyle so Michelle could stay at home, or Michelle truly did want to work — both of which are valid choices, but then it’s disingenuous to say that they “couldn’t afford” to have Michelle stay at home.) In 2006, Barack and Michelle’s combined income was nearly $1 million, yet Michelle still worked outside the home. And there is no proof that Ann Romney had a plethora of servants at her beck and call when she was raising her boys – in fact, her sons say otherwise.
Also, Courtnay – you said, “for why would we have kids if we didn’t raise them?” Perhaps you didn’t mean that to be an insult to moms who work outside the home by financial necessity (like me), but it was.
My daycare providers don’t raise my kids. My husband and I raise our kids. We get up with them at night, we deal with illness, we provide for all their needs, we make holidays and birthdays special. We take them to church and instruct them spiritually. We go to all the parent-teacher conferences and oversee their educations. Our daycare providers, while awesome, make sure they are cared for during the day, but they don’t raise them.
You’re PARTIALLY right, JoAnna,
Because, before I became a Home-maker, I was a day-care provider. I did it from the time I was 11, but full-time from the time I was 17.
I was the one watching babies roll over, sit up, crawl, pull up, walk, talk, cut their teeth, etc.
All while their mothers were at work. I was with those babies not just for eight hours a day but sometimes 10, 12. I can’t tell you how many babies called me “mama”..of course, I corrected them. You’re not just talking about some teen-age baby-sitter who keeps an eye on your kids while you go out to dinner and a movie.
You’re talking about someone who is with your child for the majority of their day so, yes, it IS kind of like “co-parenting”. Day care providers don’t get enough credit for their “work”, either.
Joanna, it was something I felt very strongly about. My children were my priority, and so I asked myself, Self, where should you be spendin the majority of your day? And, further, who do your kids really want to be with? The answers were (1) them and 2 (me). Which is why I will introduce you to our 12 year old car (and that’s the good one!) and my neighborhood Goodwill, wit h whom we are on a first name basis.
The question still stands: why have them if you don’t spend your time with them? You certainly wouldn’t be able to work 2 hours a day and call that full time. Why should parenting be any different? If you feel insulted, perhaps you need to figure out why.
Courtnay – if I quit my job to stay at home right now, we’d lose our house. Or we’d have to let our car get repossessed. Or I’d have to let my student loans default. Which one should I choose?
My husband actually graduates from college in September (he’s getting a bachelor of science degree in the IT field) and if he can find a job that pays $10k-$20k more than he’s making now, we can probably swing it so I can be a SAHM, because that’s been my dream since #1 was born 7 years ago. It’s not because I think my daycare providers are raising my kids, but rather because working outside the home makes me stressed and exhausted, and logistically it can get rather difficult (especially when scheduling appointments, trying to get meals on the table, etc). But right now, it’s not possible unless we throw our family into financial catastrophe as detailed above. As it was, we barely managed my 8 weeks of unpaid maternity leave when #4 was born in November.
I’ll be sure to tell my friend who is a single mother that you say she is a terrible parent because the father of her baby chose to effectively abandon her when she got pregnant, and she needs to work to support herself and her child. Or maybe I won’t. How is it a pro-life attitude to tell women to keep their babies and then condemn them for putting their kids in daycare when financial necessity means she has to work outside the home?
Pamela – oh, so the next time my 7-year-old throws up in the middle of the night, I should call my daycare providers to come and clean her up? Should I also invite them to her IEP meetings at her school? Should I tell them that they get the kids every other Christmas as well? When I pick up my kids after work, they shout with joy, “Mama! It’s mama! Our mommy’s here!” They don’t say “Mrs J and Mr. N are my mommy and daddy.” Even my four-month-old knows I’m his mom, not Mrs. J. He interacts with my husband and I in a different way then he does with his daycare providers.
I don’t get how sending one’s kids to public school, where they spend an equal amount of time as in daycare, is not “letting the school system raise your kids” but putting them in daycare somehow is letting your daycare providers raise your kids.
My mother is a full-time schoolteacher and has been for as long as I can remember. I was in daycare as a child. I never confused my daycare provider with my parents.
A lot more mothers would be able to stay home if they were willing to stop slaving to the stuff they own that ends up owning them-how many cars and flat screen tvs do you need if you’re never home to use them? I know plenty of women who could be home full time, but they’re not willing to forsake a few possessions they rarely use in order to make it happen. You’d be amazed at what you can accomplish on very little $. Radical feminism has made it politically incorrect to be home with your kids and likens it to slavery and patriarchal oppression. Young girls are pressured early on to abort that kid and get back in that cubicle where they belong. They began by attacking the family, and now we see the results. Your children don’t need designers jeans nearly as much as they need you-are they going to remember the brand names you bought them when they’re grown, or the times you spent together? I realize a lot of women have to work out of necessity (I’m one of them) but there are ways to balance it all and still raise your own kids.
And yes, I am defensive when I’m told I’m a terrible parent because I don’t stay at home. I’ve wanted to ever since I became a mother, but it’s never been financially possible. If anyone wants to pay my mortgage so I can stay at home (hello, Obama? I’m still waiting!) I’ll gladly take you up on that. I don’t like that fully half of my take-home pay each month goes to daycare. But the other half pays our mortgage and my student loan debt, both of which are financial obligations that I need to repay. I shop at Goodwill too, by the way, and carpool to work to save money on gas.
I don’t think working parents are terrible parents. I think that quality time is more important than quantity time. And I think all mothers work hard regardless, and every woman should be credited for doing what’s best for her family, whatever that may be.
You’re not a terrible parent. You’re working to support your kids, not to buy more stuff.
Well, Courtnay, I already shop at thrift stores and I don’t own a car, and I haven’t been on a single vacation that was not covered by business travel in five years. There are a lot of women who have little wiggle room to “give up” to convert to a SAHM lifestyle, and behaving as though it’s a simple “well if you want to do it, you will!” situation is tone-deaf. In that vein, I think that “why have kids if you don’t spend your time with them?” ABSOLUTELY is an offensive question. Especially on a pro-life blog where “because I got pregnant” is usually held up to be reason enough. People make do, often in less than perfect circumstances. People get by. No two lives or situations are equal and it’s ridiculous to pretend that choices exist in a vacuum.
Elizabeth, I agree so much with your first comment. I do not in any way support attacks on work-at-home parents and I was lovingly raised by a WAHM, and would love to be one myself someday. And I think it is really crummy that not earning a paycheck is so often considered “not working.” But taken in context the remark was clearly intended to mean, “She’s never worried about money a day in her life.” The actual quote was:
“What you have is Mitt Romney running around the country, saying, ‘Well, you know, my wife tells me that what women really care about are economic issues, and when I listen to my wife, that’s what I’m hearing,’ ” Rosen said. “Guess what? His wife has actually never worked a day in her life.”
She continued, saying, that Ms. Romney “never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing, in terms of how do we feed our kids, how do we send them to school, and why do we worry about their future.”
If Romney’s barometer for women’s economic concerns is his wife, for whom staying home likely entailed little economic sacrifice or compromise (as opposed to women who choose – even happily – to give up vacations and new cars, etc), then that is something that is not absurd to point out. He is focusing on a “women’s concern” and attaching it to a woman who has never had those concerns. To me it IS weird – it would be weird for Obama to say that his wife tells him that women are worried about how to afford to feed AND insure their kids, or whatever. Like, her perspective on that is not greater than his simply because she’s a woman. Her perspective is far more in line with his than it is with that of average American women. If he were hearing that women were worried about the cost of providing for a family, he’d be hearing that from WOMEN, not from his wife. It’d be weird and off-key for him to pretend that, like, women are the borg or something. “One woman with little economic difficulty in her own life told me that other women are worried about economic difficulty! That’s how I know they are!” Why the weird “my wife tells me women think this!” crap? Why not just, “Women tell me they are worried about the economy.”?
I am in no way saying that Ms. Romney has not worked hard, or that she has not struggled. She has struggled in ways I can’t even imagine. The thing is, she has struggled in ways that are irrelevant to the point Romney was trying to make in bringing her up.
JoAnna, I told you the choice that made sense for us. I bet you are a terrific parent. But at some point, we do decide as moms where we are going to be and what matters most. Clearly my 13 yr old daughter doesn’t need me as much as she used to, becuase, as you rightly point out, she’s at school (a private, not government school). But she really did need me at 6 months and 2 years and after nursery school, etc. It’s time with them I can never get back.
We all do what we need to do. For me, working would have been best. I might have avoided PPD with my 2nd child for as long as I did, and I might have a car under 150,000 miles. I might have new carpet in my house. I might have had a couple cruises. I might have actually used my 3 degrees in the 10 years I was home. But for Emmy, Blaise and Payton, I had to do what was best for them. That is ALL I’m saying.
Alexandra, please get off your high horse. AGAIN, i am telling you what worked for me and how I was convicted. Did I say anything that was untrue? NO. My goodness, if I can’t advocate for full-time moms on a pro-life web site, where can I?
And PS–there are worse things than being OFFENDED.
And what I’m saying, Courtnay, is that whether your realize it or not, your statements are coming across as sanctimonious and offensive. My kids need me too – do you think I don’t realize that? – but unlike Michelle Obama or Ann Romney I actually don’t have the luxury of staying home with them right now, because with our current debts and obligations we can’t make it on my husband’s current salary alone. God willing, by the end of the year that will change and I CAN stay home. I would love that. But it’s not possible for every parent, especially those who have faced unemployment issues, and you telling me (and others like me) that we simply don’t care about what’s best for our children is offensive – just like it’s offensive for Hilary Rosen to say that raising kids isn’t work, or for Obama to say that $160,000 per year isn’t a large enough salary for his wife to be a SAHM.
Most of my friends ARE stay-at-home-moms and I’m so jealous of them. I think it’s great. I’m the first person to advocate on their behalf when idiots like Hilary Rosen try to claim they’re lazy slobs. But I don’t appreciate being told that SAHMs are better parents than working moms. I think every mom who works her ass off for her kids, regardless of if she works outside the home or not, is a great mom. Period.
I’m sorry, Courtnay, but sometimes it’s not a choice between new cars/vacations and being a work-at-home mom, it’s a choice between be a work-at-home mom and keeping the lights on/a roof over your head/food on the table.
Speaking of Romney, Jill, are you going to answer Dan D’s questions in your “Stanek endorses Romney” thread anytime soon? I’m really interested in your response. Thanks!
Here’s what Dan D wrote:
Jill, you’re absolutely killing me here. Setting aside the life issue for a second, there are other disqualifying issues besides abortion. You do know that right? Mitt Romney is a cult member. He also singlehandedly instituted homosexual marriage in Massachusetts. On the contrary, Obama claims to be a Christian and also openly opposes gay marriage. Let’s take a look at the whole lesser of two evils approach:
Candidate AChristianAgainst gay marriage
Candidate BCultistSupports gay marriage
Who should I pick Jill? Please answer.
Getting to the abortion issue. Since you think Romney is a convert, can you please answer 2 questions?1. What month and year did he convert?2. Has he done anything pro-abortion since then?
X–I KNOW THIS. It was a choice for ME. That was my situation. I understand that women have different experiences.
Yes, Alexandra, I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you.
When the late actress Jayne Mansfield was asked, “What is your favorite title?” she replied, “I like to be called mother.”
I have a close friend who is a man and works outside the home at a paid job. He is a telemarketer. He makes about 300 phone calls per day and repeatedly recites a scripts. He is lucky is he gets 2 or 3 “leads” per day. He dislikes the repetitive nature of the work, the strain on his voice, and the frustration. He also dislikes the fact that people he calls are often annoyed at getting a telemarketing call.
Can someone please explain why this man is in a better position than a full-time housewife just because he has a paid job outside the home?
Sorry Courtnay! >_<
I understand where Joanna’s coming from though. I think it’s primarily a guilty conscience thing, because it’s what we wish we could be doing, but can’t.
xalisae – I’m just saying, and I know you tend to get overly cranky – but this was a couple of days ago, and was said by somebody that 99.9% of the country had never heard above before she said it.
While Rosen was technically correct, it was a dumb thing to say and serves no real purpose in the greater conversation.
I’m not sure where Rosen lives, but I think the Romney’s should just buy that state, and give it to a foreign country, just to get rid of her.
That’s not what I said, JoAnna. I didn’t say day-care providers are there 24/7. I said it’s KIND OF like co-parenting.
Teachers aren’t there when a baby/toddler is reaching all those precious ‘firsts’.
My mother was a singe parent (in between marriages). She worked from the time I was a year old. My husband’s father abandoned his family when my husband was a teenager. That’s why we made the decision that I would stay home with our daughter until she starts school. I wanted to be with her for all those “firsts”.
I personally did not say ANYTHING about mothers who work outside the home if you notice, JoAnna. Why would I? Many mothers HAVE to work to make ends meet, like my mother and my husband’s…and some of the mothers I worked for.
We do without a lot of “material” things. It’s a SACRIFICE, not a LUXURY for me to be home with our daughter.
You don’t need to ATTACK me for my opinions, JoAnna. I didn’t attack you for yours.
Don’t be so defensive.
Pamela, I want to be there for my kids’ milestones too! It’s the implication that I don’t that I find offensive. I want to be with them but I also want a place to live. Right now, I can’t have both at once.
Here’s what “if your kids are in daycare, someone else is raising them” says to me: “if you died, your kids wouldn’t notice.”
How is that not offensive?
I’m just saying, and I know you tend to get overly cranky – but this was a couple of days ago, and was said by somebody that 99.9% of the country had never heard above before she said it.
Certainly, and I just want to point out to you that even though you and the general public might not have any sort of familiarity with this woman, she’s been to the White House enough times to have her own bedroom, and it’s something that everyone SHOULD know, now that she’s said something like this.
I’m not sure where Rosen lives, but I think the Romney’s should just buy that state, and give it to a foreign country, just to get rid of her.
Oh, I sure don’t. I think the Obama campaign should bring her out more often, preferably promoting her to running mate…
Can I ask a First Lady related question? Who makes your blood boil more – Michelle Obama or Hillary Clinton?
X/Navi – I know the right is going to try to make this stick for a while, but she was quickly denounced, and the buzz has died down outside of the fringe websites.
The interesting thing will be how Romney chooses to try to close the gender gap. He’s down 10+ with women.
The smart thing, poll speaking wise, is to back off the hard conservative stance he’s taken on a lot of women’s issues. But if he does that, he loses the far right.
Now, I’m sure the etch-a-sketch is shaking right now, and he’s figuring out what candidate to be for the next 7 months – so who knows who he’ll be going forward…but it will be interesting to see how he chooses to try to close the gap.
Don’t put words in my mouth, JoAnna. I never said any such thing. I said ..AGAIN…”It’s KIND OF like co-parenting”. CO-PARENTING..HELPING you raise your children, not raising them for you. I’m not the one that said that. I also did not say that you DON’T WANT to be there for your kids milestones, so there was no “implication”, at least, not from ME.
As I said, stop attacking me.
Ex-RINO
Did you seriously just call Twitter a “fringe website”? LMAO! How out of touch ARE YOU, dude?! XD
Also I highly HIGHLY recommend you guys read the book “The Price of Motherhood: Why The Most Important Job in the World Is Still the Least Valued”. Motherhood is the largest indicator of poverty in a woman’s life and that is NOT okay.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Price-Motherhood-Important-Valued/dp/0312655401
Dear Heavens X – twitter is a social network application where lots of people post their thoughts. it isn’t a news site – isn’t a website at all (except to register).
Ex-RINO,
A lot has changed since Al Gore invented the internet. You should really catch up. Many news stories are actually broken via Twitter these days, and every effective politician maintains an account. You do realize that the Dems have been riding the Twitter train longer than we have, right?!
Every effective politician also has a cell phone and receives text messages, but that doesn’t mean those cell phones are news sites.
I can’t believe of all the things I said, the classification of twitter as a news site is what you are attacking. I would not have guessed that.
Alexandra, please get off your high horse. AGAIN, i am telling you what worked for me and how I was convicted. Did I say anything that was untrue? NO. My goodness, if I can’t advocate for full-time moms on a pro-life web site, where can I?
Well, Courtnay, if you were merely talking about yourself when you said what I quoted, then I apologize for misunderstanding you. It is a very general statement and while there are certainly worse things in the world than being offended, we are lucky enough to live in a world where causing offense unintentionally often merits some consideration. Several people in this thread were offended by your comments so perhaps there was something offensive about them, however unintentionally.
I apologize if I seem like I am on a “high horse” when I point out that for many women, it’s not about giving up luxuries. I thought it was something that needed to be said since it usually goes forgotten in these “just stop buying lattes!” sort of conversations. As I already said, I was raised by a WAHM and hope to be one myself, so I certainly have no problem with anyone advocating on their behalf, on a pro-life blog or anywhere else.
For what it’s worth I’m sorry if I repeatedly rub you the wrong way. I actually really enjoy reading your comments and even though we don’t always agree I have never thought of you as anything than a caring, intelligent person.
I’m off for a while but I hope you have a good weekend.
Well, yeah, because it’s obvious you don’t use it. It’s a means of spreading links to news cites. Do you really think everyone there just takes what everyone else there says at face value, 140 characters at a time?
Okay X – the great news site twitter is all abuzz of the situation. It is really going crazy! Leading journalists everywhere have all sorts of great, super short interviews on the subject!
Ex-RINO,
The only way that could’ve been more unintentionally humorous on your part is if you had said “the twitter” instead of just “twitter”. I’d encourage you to refrain from discussing things you obviously know nothing about in the future.
Do you know what “links” are? PROTIP: It has nothing to do with golf.
What about “Twitters”, like the president sometimes says?
“It’s such a bummer than in one of the most developed nations we are still so far behind when it comes to these kinds of things”
Could you please name the countries that have those things?
Do you mean like Sweden? or France? Because Americans of Swedish and French descent are doing pretty well for themselves here, too.
“Motherhood is the largest indicator of poverty in a woman’s life and that is NOT okay.”
Well, that is due to the way they calculate poverty. It is probably more due to singleness than motherhood. Only 4% of children whose parents are married, are poor.
….and those links are going to fringe sites, the only place still covering the story, which was my first post to begin with.
Again though, it will be interesting to see how Romney tries to close the gap. Do you think he’ll become more of a moderate and leave the fringe right behind?
RINO,
Hardly a fringe site-Twitter is effecting change in Washington and elsewhere-the Recent Komen debacle took place mostly on Twitter. Call it microblogging for activists. Many are calling it tne new telegraph system. Anyone who thinks the rapid exchange of information is ‘fringe’ is downright naive. The power for activism is enormous, and its being put to good use by some of us. When arguing with a proabort on the other side of the country, we can now instantly link them to videos of the abortion procedure, testimonies of women who’ve aborted, images of the aborted, and so on. Not hard to guess the impact this has had on online activism and debate. The next election will be won or lost in part on Twitter.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/15/social-media-social-activism-facebook-twitter-leadership-citizenship-burson.html
MPCQ -
I didn’t say that the rapid exchange of information is fringe – I said that the majority of sites still running on this story are fringe. That is two different things, and I hope in the future you read a bit more carefully to accurately reflect the position you are disagreeing with.
The next election will be won or lost, in part, by a lot of factors. One of which is the women’s vote. What’s your call? Does Romney bring out the etch a sketch, leave the hard right behind and become a moderate? How does he close the gap?
You said ‘only fringe sites’ are covering the story. BTW the libs are still whining about Fluke and Limbaugh. Old news?
I think Romney’s a better-heeled Obama. If you’d been reading more carefully, you’d know that already. Not sure where you’re getting ‘far right’ from-abortion is covered in Romneycare.
More stupid than snide. Heh.
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/140777/
MPC
…and you said that “Anyone who thinks the rapid exchange of information is ‘fringe’ is downright naive.” That’s not what I said.
I think Fluke and Limbaugh is very old news. Massively old news.
You did when claiming Twitter is some kind of non-site fringe network.
Sadly, the dems on Twitter don’t agree-they’re still beating the dead horse.
Done picking nits. Family time. Laterz.
It’s old news. We already know that Obama and the Dems hate everything that is wholesome, godly, and makes life worth living.
John – Yes, of course, and the Republicans love their guns, their money, and their wars.
They are all about the love, aren’t they?
Yep, Republicans hate freeloaders, Communists and terrorists.
Meanwhile, Democrats hate babies, good people, and God.
Both parties are crappy, but guess which side I am more likely to ally with.
Ex-GOP: Republicans love their guns, their money, and their wars.
?? Democrats love their guns too. In Chicago, governing Dems have well-armed bodyguards. Meanwhile, citizens have long been denied the enumerated right to keep and bear arms in self-defense. The hypocrisy is exquisite, and the myth that only hick right-wing “bitter clingers” are gun-oriented is just stupid.
Even David Brock — founder of Media Matters and as anti-gun as they come — has been known to have his bodyguards illegally carry concealed weapons.
Meanwhile, during a period when tens of millions more firearms have been sold in the U.S., violent crime has gone down.
So what’s not to love?
As for loving their money, well then, it’s a bipartisan/non-partisan issue. Republicans love their money? Heh. Democrats love the Republican’s money too. Republicans would like to keep their own money. Democrats would like to take others’ from them. Difficult to say whose love is greater.
As for war, Obama’s dramatically increased foreign soil drone strikes, as much as an order of magnitude more such strikes than under Bush. Bush went to Congress. Obama sees no need of that — consistent with his “If Congress won’t act, I will” credo.
Obama left Iraq on Bush’s timetable. Heh. Only after Obama failed in negotiations to stay there longer.
Interesting world.
xalisae,
I trust a successful businesman to run my country in a hard economic time moreso than a law professor who seems to have a hard time comprehending what our system of checks and balances entails.
Oh snap! No, she di’n’t! Raise the roof! ;)
Oh my. A war on stay-at-home moms and, here, a war between moms and…not a twitter war but a “war about twitter war”! Can’t we all just get along? ;)
Republicans love … their money
Democrats love Republicans’ money, too. They also love independents’ money … as long as it’s someone else’s money they didn’t earn themselves.
It’s really disgusting. They can’t even hide their utter disgust for women who CHOOSE to be homemakers, as if being a stay at home wife and mother is somehow shameful. Stay at home moms don’t “work”? Never has there been a more ignorant, anti-woman statement. As if punching a time clock gives life meaning.
Homemakers don’t just take care of their homes, their spouse, and their kids, either. They also take care of the community. These are the people who you find performing endless acts of charity for the good of everyone, especially after their kids are grown.
John -
*sigh*
There’s no ‘utter disgust’ involved. She simply pointed out the obvious – that the understanding of women IN THE WORKFORCE and the economic conditions IN THE WORKFORCE is tougher for them to understand because she’s never been IN THE WORKFORCE.
If you’d like to raise taxes and start sending checks to stay at home moms, count me in. They do awesome work, are a massive contributor to society through raising children – and I for one would be fine paying more taxes to send them money.
Rasqual -
I was just trying to throw out the cliches to equal John’s stupid comment.
Of course Democrats like their guns…though I don’t know how many of them have three year olds with NRA memberships, or fight for the free range shooting of people who wander into their yards!
Ex-GOP, thats the kind of evasiveness and dishonesty I would expect from someone who’s name is a lie. Good job.
Dems think homemakers are clueless idiots who know nothing about the outside world. We get it.
John – you are actually right – I do occasionally vote for GOPers, just not on a federal level (or haven’t in years).
In regards to everything else, it is one thing to disagree – it is another to say somebody is lying. If you believe that, then post what you think is dishonest and back it up. It is pretty lame to simply say somebody is lying (when you probably simply just disagree), and then don’t even put what you are replying towards.
Ex-RINO,
Your chauvenism is oozing. A SAHM is WORKING. She is in the WORKFORCE. They have more WORKFORCE experience than a lot of people who WORK outside the home. The skillset is no less. For Hillary Rosen to try and mock Mitt Romney for saying his wife Ann is an women economic advisor shows Rosen , without even realizing it, disrespecting all women. You really still don’t get it either.
Truth -
How many women have been hired into the stay at home workforce?
Tell me about the annual performance reviews?
Are you saying the unemployment rates are overstated because we actually have millions more gainfully employed?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hilary-rosen-was-right-ann-romney-doesnt-speak-for-women-in-the-workforce/2012/04/13/gIQAqv3jFT_story.html
Ex-GOP,
One has to be hired or receive reviews to be ”working”? I will have to tell my friends who started a jewelry business and my friends who are farmers they are not really part of the work force, because they were not hired nor do they receive performance reviews. If their business or farm fails, they do not receive unemployment. Yours is a very narrow and elitist view of “gainfully employed.”
If your friends receive paychecks, they are part of the workforce. That is sort of the definition of being employed. You are trying to make an issue out of something that isn’t there, and it is sad to see.
Here’s what Rosen said – tell me what isn’t factually correct:
“What you have is Mitt Romney running around the country saying: ‘Well, you know, my wife tells me that what women really care about are economic issues. And when I listen to my wife, that’s what I’m hearing. Guess what? His wife has actually never worked a day in her life”
Again, stay at home parents are doing a great service – I’d pay more taxes to give higher child tax breaks and put more money in their pockets.
But if we’re talking about unemployment, job searching, and wages – which is what this conversation is about, then Rosen is correct.
If we’re talking about stay at home mothers, than Romney has no initial point to make, because the number of stay at home moms probably isn’t much different over the last four years.
What do you think Romney is running around talking about?
Now its “paycheck” that defines work force? You’re moving the goalposts. To truthseeker you were defining work force by hiring and performance reports. No, small business owners and farmers do not receive a “pay check”. A pay check comes from an employer. They also do not deal with unemployment, job searching, or wages.
Small business owners and farmers do have a form of income and make budgets accordingly… just like SAHMs.
Eric – I didn’t define work that way to truthseeker – I simply asked if she had ever received those things?
Let’s start from scratch here Eric – picture a stay at home mother, and a mother who works as a police officer. Can you identify some of the differences between the two?
In Romney is talking about women caring about economic issues, and that those economics have gotten worse under Obama, what do you feel he is referring to? The stay at home mothers?
I didn’t define work that way to truthseeker.”
Really? Why then did you ask,
“How many women have been hired into the stay at home workforce?”
unless your point is that SAHMS are not part of the work force based on not being hired?
Honesty please.
As far as your question regarding the stay at home mother and police officer, yes there are differences. If your point is that a SAHM wouldn’t fully understand the struggles of a woman looking for living wage outside the home, I can agree. But then … so? Would we belittle a candidate’s wife who works outside the home because she couldn’t understand a SAHM’s struggles? “You know what? She has never been a SAHM a day in her life”.
PS I do appreciate you went back to starting from scratch to find a point of agreement. Very Socratic.
That is exactly the point. If Romney is making an economic point that Obama’s policies have hurt women in the workforce, and that some of the advice and guidance he’s getting is from his wife, then that is where Rosen is pointing out the disconnect.
Now, she did it in sort of a stupid fashion, but she’s still ultimately correct.
I am a white male living in Wisconsin. If I tried to give some advice on the struggles facing black females in the south, you could properly say that I might not be the expert as well.
Again, Rosen could have said it better – or let it go unsaid. I think the American people are smart enough to see that the majority of politicians (especially the Romney’s) don’t understand and can’t relate to what typical Americans go through on a daily basis.
Ex-GOP, I agree with a lot of what you write, with a very notable exception:
Who defines “typical”? SAHMs are not typical Americans? Should you try and define “typical” by what the “majority” of Americans experience, than we should elect a caucasian Protestant working mother who has no college degree and has lived her whole life in the same state in the US, as that is the most typical American.
Was completely talking finances.
In 2010, Romney made $21.6 million. Obama made $5.5 million.
My friends worry about property taxes, putting food on the table, insurance coverage, school systems…
It is hard to believe Obama and Romney can relate to any of those things. $21.6 million is $59,000 a day, which is a pretty decent salary for a “typical” American. He made that every 24 hours.
By the way, I think it is time for a working mother to be President!
I agree, there are several women, both SAHMs and mothers working outside the home, for whom I would vote before any of the current choices. They all make less than Romney and less than Obama.
I appreciate the dialogue — heading to bed now that the thunderstorms have moved through my corner of Nebraska.
GO BIG RED!!!
We have some rumbles starting in Wisconsin as well – so I’m calling it a night as well. Good chatting with you.
Ex-RINO said – “By the way, I think it is time for a working mother to be President!”
Go Sarah Go!!!
According to Hillary Rosen and Ex-RINO SAHM’s are not part of any workforce. For example a SAHM who has a business making widgets from home and selling them is not in the workforce if she is home with her children at the same time. But if she had chosen to abort instead and had started the same business then she could consider herself not only in the workforce but also as being a knowledgaeable business woman. Ex-RINO, You really don’t get it.
According to God and the apostle Paul, older women like Mrs. Romney are to “encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored” (Titus 2:4-5).
Truth -
That isn’t an accurate representation of anything I’ve said and you know it. Somebody with a business that works out of their home is filing a schedule C, paying into social security, has earned income on their taxes – that is a MUCH different scenario than anything we’ve talked about.
You really never cease to amaze me.
Truth – I believe Romney has been referring to the labor force:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_force
If you feel that he’s talking about a different segment of the population, feel free to chime in and support your belief. I see nothing in his statements that, when talking about women and economic conditions and statistics under Obama, that he was talking about stay at home moms (regardless of there widget making skills).
Actually, my previous comment was not entirely correct. The apostle Paul in writing to Titus was not talking about women like Mrs. Romney. Unless she is quietly in disagreement with the religion of her husband, she is a member of a cult. Mormons dishonour the Word of God by giving the Book of Mormon equal or higher authority.
Mitt Romney’s Mormonism does not make me think he would make a poor president. I much prefer Rick Santorum, but even Mitt Romney seems to have much of the same Judeo-Christian morality which I do. (“Seems,” I know, is a problem, but democracies get the leaders they deserve.) President Obama, on the other hand, is actively immoral. In supporting Planned Parenthood, he manages to subvert at least three of the Ten Commandments: honouring one’s parents, not murdering, and not committing adultery (or fornicating). And I’m not even thinking of other qualifications for the president: that he show leadership skills, that he be able to work within a budget, that he know history, and that he resist the trend which Benjamin Franklin supposedly said eventually defeats every republic.
Ex-RINO,
I’ll keep it simple for you.
SAHM’s are in the Labor Force.
I know you tried doing this with Eric last night but can you define specifically why it is that you believe SAHM’s cannot be part of a WORKFORCE or a LABORFORCE?
Ex-RINO,
Two questions. Did SAHM Ann Romney ever spend a day of her life working on anything other than raising her children? How come Obama doing community organizing counts as work experience on his resume but Ann Romneys work with non-profits doesn’t count as work experience?
Here’s my thing. Ann Romney may be an awesome mom and homemaker. But does she have to worry about the same things the average American mom and homemaker does? Whether she will have to sacrifice to feed her children? Probably not. Has she had to try to find a job in this economy? No. I have, having been laid off twice, once when Bush was in office and once with Obama. Has she ever had to worry that she wouldn’t be able to pay the electric bill because one of her kids was sick? No. She does not have the same experiences as the average American woman, be she a stay at home mom or a working mom.
Ex-GOP says:
I see nothing in his statements that, when talking about women and economic conditions and statistics under Obama, that he was talking about stay at home moms (regardless of there widget making skills).
What? I thought this was about what Rosen said. SHE is the one that brought up SAHMs. According to Rosen, Romney shouldn’t be listening to his wife when she’s talking about women caring about economic issues, because Ann Romney has never worked a day in her life, so how could she possibly know that women care about economic issues.
Newsflash: SAHMs care about economic issues as well! Most SAHMs I know take care of the budget and bills for the family as well, so even though they may not be earning a paycheck they are well aware of the economic issues facing their family. How utterly moronic to think that because a woman doesn’t work outside the home she must be some stupid wife that doesn’t bother her pretty head about all that financial stuff.
Newsflash: You don’t have to be poor and struggling financially to understand economic issues either.
Sara,
You should be a little more skeptical of the severe Mrs. Obama, then, than Mrs. Romney. Mrs. O was handed a $300,000 job as lawyer for, I believe, the U. of Chicago Hospital because her husband was a rising political star.
They didn’t need the extra income at the time, and their daughters were quite young. That’s all well and good. But it turns out they didn’t even feel it necessary to replace her when they left for Washington.
I’ll put Mrs. Romney’s struggles up against the severe Mrs. O’s any time.
Actually, my mother is a home-maker who understands economics very well. Every week she looks through the fliers to find the bargains, especially at grocery stores, and she has a pantry in our home to stock up with things she bought on sale. She had six children, and she cooked all the meals, except the oatmeal we had for breakfast (Dad made that, and it was always too soupy). She canned fruits and vegetables. Now that the children have grown up she cleans house for other people for a small income, and she still has plenty of time for work in the church. Even when my siblings and I were growing up, she helped out in the local right-to-life group.
According to my father, a Christian (private) school teacher who earned considerably less than the public school teachers, if our tithes, free-will offerings, and donations were factored in to the family income for a household our size, we would be living well below the poverty line. In our province of Canada, the private schools receive no funds (and so a minimum of meddling) from the civil government (i.e. tax-payers). My father repaired the car at home as often as he took it to the mechanic. Of course, it goes without saying that he never ever bought a new car. I remember that he always fixed the washing machine, too, when it broke down. He became a fix-it man of necessity, though he naturally also seems to have more skill with machines than I do.
My parents home-schooled me, the oldest, for Grades 9 and 10, because they were waiting until at least two of their six children were in high school before paying for two school systems. At that point, I think, the youngest were ready to begin school. I do remember a sizeable gift from my mother’s parents at that point (a portion of the inheritance, I suppose).
Taking care of the children at home was a no-brainer for my parents (and for me and my wife now). Who will love them the most and have their interest most in mind? A mother, of course. Don’t send little kids to strangers. I wouldn’t think single mothers need to be told, but it seems some do–God did not intend that children grow up without a father. The epidemic of broken families in America are a disaster for its future. I believe in planned parenthood, not Planned Parenthood.
Jon, a gem of a comment. Thank you.
Truth – let’s back up here, because you seem to be trying to pick a fight again without actually knowing what the discussion is about.
Last week, Romney cited the job losses by women over the last four years (he actually went back before Obama took office, but that’s another issue) and said how bad the Obama administration is concerning women. He also has talked about his wife talking about the impact of the economy on women.
Now, you can make any sort of claim you want on what it means to be part of the labor force. You can throw in working dogs for all I care – that isn’t what the conversation is about.
If Romney is talking about job losses and unemployment, then I find it rather silly to be debating jobs that a person really can’t lose and then file unemployment. Those numbers aren’t in what Romney claimed and has targeted, so to talk about it is outside the entire conversation.
Lrning -
Take a look at my post just made to Truthseeker – some background is needed for you and some folks.
So much for loving stay at home moms…
“I wanted to increase the work requirement. I said, for instance, that even if you have a child 2 years of age, you need to go to work. And people said, ‘Well that’s heartless.’ And I said, ‘No, no, I’m willing to spend more giving day care to allow those parents to go back to work. It’ll cost the state more providing that daycare, but I want the individuals to have the dignity of work.’”
Ex-RINO,
Rosen stereotyped SAHM’s as never having worked a day their lives. It was an ignorant thig to say. We all know they not only work outside of raising their children but are as smart or smarter about what it takes to ‘hold a job’. They do get up at 5am on cold winter days and some do have to go out in the cold etc. Why are you even trying to support such an idiotic statement by Rosen?
Multiple times I’ve said it was a stupid thing for her to say – 6:58 on the 13th, 10:51 on the 14th…
Staying at home with children is hard work.
If I need to say it again I will.
In the context of the greater conversation, if Mitt Romney is making a case about the unemployment toil on women, I don’t think his wife is the best expert, because (at least to my knowledge), she’s never hit the pavement in search of a job, been unemployed, or been employed.
Yes, she has worked. But Romney isn’t talking about that.
What did you think of the Romney quote by the way? So stay at home mom’s don’t have the dignity of work? Seems like Romney is the guy you ought to be attacking if you are so passionate about the dignity of stay at home parents.
A little balance here? Or have you rallied behind your candidate that quickly?
Context matters. Romney’s comment was regarding welfare recipients. I’m not sure what I think about it yet. I’d like to know more about what his full plan was first. Free daycare and a job (providing skills & experience for building a future) might be an effective method of combating poverty. I know a few people that have had to go on public aid and it definitely was a blow to their dignity.
That’s almost funny Lrning – nobody seemed to care about the context in relation to Rosen’s comments (and the comments from Romney that led to her comments).
I agree, context is important – in both cases.
i don’t understand were we talking about!
help me