Jennifer Morbelli’s funeral homily touches on human “brokenness”
We cannot put them or put ourselves back together again, but God can, in this sacred place where God meets us where we are; in this holy place where we hand over not only Jennifer and Madison to our God, we also hand ourselves over as well.
~ Reverend Martin Biglin, pastor of Holy Name of Jesus Catholic Church in New Rochelle, New York, referencing ‘the nursery rhyme “Humpty Dumpty” to compare the grieving family, friends and others to “broken” people’ during the funeral of LeRoy Carhart’s recent victim, Jennifer Morbelli, as reported by the Lower Hudson Journal, February 13
Feb.15, 2013 6:00 am |
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Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Click on the actual article and read the sorry comments but the one that is amazing is from a physician who said that it would have accomplished the same goal if they had birthed the baby girl and THEN KILLED HER.
No one is even commenting on that little nugget!!!!
Prayers continuing for this broken family, broken in ways they haven’t even realized yet.
Okay, he must be saying this to make a point since the rest of his comment acknowledges two lives and his facebook page seems very pro life. But if so he is the only pro lifer making comments and the rest are all we need more abortionists so it is safer. Obviously no one else got his sarcasm either.
Another “Catholic” good grief! Don’t get me wrong – this is a tragedy, but my goodness this woman NAMED her child then killed her! How in the world can a person reconcile this in their mind?
Is it common to have a funeral mass for someone who clearly died in a state of mortal sin? (I don’t mean to sound crass, I’m genuinely curious). Her family at least seems to be “Catholic” yet they apparently knew about the late term abortion and supported it. I don’t even know what to say. I read in another article that the “fetal anomaly” was epilepsy. I mean…really? I’m trying to be a good Christian and find compassion and love in my heart for this woman and her family, but I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t really, really hard.
I have heard from many women, going back years, that were bullied by a succession of doctors to abort when there were suspicions of anomilies, even to the point that the women were threatened with psychiatric confinement if they did not. You have no idea how EVIL our medical community can be, and blind when THEY think they know whats best for you. Pure arrogance. One woman refused 6 doctors in a row and did deliver her child( against their advice), who did die soon after, and she stated, “my little girl is gone, but Not by MY hand.” Most mothers have strong enough instinct to be suspicous when someone wants you to do something so against nature, but imagine how vulnerable you are at that moment. And being Catholic has nothing to do with this-All humans experience fear, and we should have Christian charity for the deceased-she cannot now speak for herself any longer. Servant of God for Life
Comments seem to be more concerned with this womans religous affiliation, than any actual loss of life-perhaps hinting that she got what she deserved. This makes Me sad-false compassion toward a young mother, who was as much a victim as her baby. I am a “Catholic” and my church is not Phariseeical towards women who have had abortions, they are steered to Rachels Vineyard for reconciliation and healing.
So now all of the sudden a fetus becomes a baby and is given the dignity of a funeral?
Praying for all of us.
Paula,
I agree with everything you have said. I am beyond tired of the speculation.
A beautiful young mother is dead along with her baby. Carhart killed them both.
Though I am horrified by this story, we cannot judge her having a Catholic burial. None of us including her pastor knows the state of her salvation at the time of her death. She had time to think about what she had done and reconcile her actions with our Lord, who is ever loving and forgiving. The Catholics in her life should have been a source of love, support, compassion and strength to allow her to turn away from abortion. We all make terrible mistakes, and find forgiveness in Jesus our savior. Please find it in your heart to pray for her and the countless women who are tricked into believing that abortion is the only choice.
Disgusting! Just disgusting that people who claim to be pro-life would revel in this woman’s death. Much of the information came from illegally obtained hospital records, dumpster diving and protesters taking pictures of her outside a clinic. Many speculations about the destination of her eternal soul and what was wrong with the fetus have been made. The tone of many posters is almost gleeful as they comb through her Pinterest and baby registry and then spreading gossip. Leave this family in peace! I think some of the so-called Christians need to reflect on whether Jesus would behave as they have or post as they have on this site. The Jesus I know would not. So maybe for a while, instead of glorifying yourself before others by publicly saying the rosary, screaming at women and gossiping, you can humble yourself before God. You can, you know, pray for women to not have abortions without a crowd either in real life or on the internet. Myself, I believe God listens to the quiet, sincere pleas of a humble heart than those who make a spectacle of themselves to show they are holier than their neighbor.
Paula, on account of what you wrote, I am going to suspend judgment of Jennifer, the pregant woman. However, I find it impossible not to despise her parents, who went with their daughter, their other daughter, and their son-in-law to Maryland for the abortion. Her parents are middle class people; her father is a respected Detective. These are not unsophisticated people who could be pushed into encouraging their daughter to do something so evil — unless they themselves wanted her to do it. In addition, abortion under these circumstances isn’t even legal in New York, which is why the family went to Maryland. This makes it highly unlikely that a succession of New York doctors were strongly urging abortion, even if they were making dire predictions about the baby. I live in NYC and I know how accepted abortion is here, even by many “good” people. I also concede that abortion is even more acceptable among rich sophisticates than among working people. However, I can tell you that abortion at 33 weeks is unheard of here. So, I find it very hard to believe that FIVE people — Jennifer, her husband, her sister, and her parents — were being cajoled into doing something they didn’t want to do. They were obviously distraught about whatever disablity they had been told the baby would have, but that doesn’t mean they were pushed into abortion. Perhaps Jennifer and even her husband were too emotional to think morally and rationally, but surely her PARENTS could have said, “We will all love this baby no matter what and we will stand by you.” Instead, they drove several states away to have a notorious abortionist murder their grandchild. While Jennifer’s parents need our prayers, we would not be doing them any favors by making excuses for them. The people around pregnant women in distress must do the RIGHT thing, not the easy thing. The McKennas are the moral equivalent of guilty of the first degree murder of their grandaughter and the manslaughter of their daughter. I didn’t rationalize away OJ Simpson’s guilt, and I won’t rationalize away the guilt of these middle class Catholic grandparents.
Again, we need to reserve our harshest sentiments toward the monster that destroyed this whole family forever. And remember how much fear they all felt, how the doctors more than likely strongly suggested this as the most compassionate solution, and how this family TRUSTED them-this was their mistake. I cry when I try to imagine Jennifer’s suffering and I’m sure, regret as her life ebbed away, this OUTRAGES me-we treat dumb animals with more care and respect! Worse-she was NOT given the time to consider all of the outcomes, she was sold a high pressured and ultimately fraudulently fatal intervention. They panicked and went along, no one should criticize this family, they were victims of exploitation. Abortionists are Predators par excellence-next week the victim will be your neighhbor or the child of a friend.
I take a backseat to nobody when it comes to despising Carhart. However, your insistence that Jennifer’s parents were naive rubes has no basis in fact. Yes, they “trusted” Carhart, but how he let them down was in not preserving their daughter’s life; since they chose abortion, you can’t say Carhart let them down by killing their grandchild.
I am not saying that Jennifer should have not had a Catholic funeral, nor am I claiming to be able to judge her parents on a subjective level because only God can judge even Carhart on a subjective level. What I am saying is that there is no reason to assume Jennifer’s parents merely panicked or were “exploited”. Sometimes people just choose to do very nad things.
Uta, if you are not a friend of this family its dangerous to make presumptions on the degree of their culpability. They have lost two beloved members of their family, and its absurd to attempt to lay blame, can you not accept that they must be in deep grief and need prayer, not fingerpointing. And you would be surprised to know how many hospitals in the U.S. do late-term abortions for all kinds of reasons-and its all kept-hush, hush. The abortion Dr., ahem is the criminal, not the victims of the abortion.
Paula, my conscience is clear regarding my condemnation of the McKennas’ actions. To say that it is “absurd to lay blame” is, well, absurd. Only God can judge Carhart’s subjective intentions, yet nobody is arguing that we can’t blame him for performing abortions. Why then should I not condemn the McKennas for their part in having had their grandchild murdered? Yes, they are grieving now, but how does that change the reality of their actions? I live near the McKennas and assert as facts that they are intelligent people who understood that their 33 week pregnant daughter was carrying an actual baby who was their grandchild. And I don’t need to be told how many hospitals do late-term abortions for all sorts of reasons and that it’s kept “hush-hush”. In fact, I don’t doubt that a New Rochelle Police Department detective, which Mr. McKenna is, who has lived in New Rochelle for decades would have had no problem arranging such an abortion for his daughter in a New Rochelle or NYC hospital. The fact that the family drove to Maryland instead tells me they knew what they were doing was evil and they did not want their neighbors to find out about it.
I know it is good pratice for official pro-life spokespeople to avoid judging or condeming women who have abortions, and I am not judging Jennifer or even her husband. However, we are posting here as individuals and the idea that I personally should keep silent about what seems obvious to me — that the McKennas have their daughter and their grandaughter’s blood on their hands — is just silly. Why do we condemn Carhart for murdering Baby Madison, but assume that Baby Madison’s own grandparents were “exploited” when they hired Carhart? If a man hired a hitman to murder his wife, would we say that the actual killer is the sole guilty one and that the husband must have been “exploited” by the contract killer?
What is it that I am supposed to believe about this situation? That the McKennas did not know their daughter was pregnant with a living baby? That the McKennas didn’t reject that baby because it was going to be handicapped? They are not “victims”; they were not exploited. They responded to their daughter’s bad news about her baby NOT by assuring her that they would love the baby no matter what, but by piling the family into an SUV to drive to the dumpy clinic of the country’s most most notorious abortionist. If I can’t condemn those actions, then no one can condemn Carhart’s, either. After all, if we assume that people merely SEEM intelligent, accomplished, and well-connected, why shouldn’t we absolve Carhart, too?
And you would be surprised to know how many hospitals in the U.S. do late-term abortions for all kinds of reasons-and its all kept-hush, hush.
It appears, paula, that you have some inside knowledge so it can’t be all that hush, hush. As a Christian yourself, are you exposing these evils to the light? Please let us know what hospitals and for what reasons late term abortions are happening so we can do what we can to stop them.
Praxedes, abortion when the mother’s life is in danger is legal in New York State even in the third trimester. So, there isn’t much “we can do what we can to stop” abortions when an OB/Gyn asserts the mother may die if she doesn’t have one. Friends of mine who work at major NYC hospitals have told me that doctors sometimes claim a woman’s life is in danger and that she needs an abortion when it’s just not the case, but that it is almost impossible to PROVE that that is not the case, or at least to prove it in time to prevent the abortion from happening.
If you can figure out how: to infiltrate NYC hospitals; get on the inside track where these arguments about third trimester abortions are being made on a case-by-case basis; rand raise enough hell to prevent these abortions as they are about to happen…have at it.
And, yes, I am doing everything I can to “expose these evils to the light”, including writing directly to doctors and to hospital board members. I am doing the best I can to prevent as many abortions as possible, and one of the ways I am doing that is to object when people absolve every non-abortionist of responsibility when it comes to abortion. This mushiness — and I concede that leaders of official pro-life leaders must not condemn anyone besides the abortionist – is the reason so many people who “know better” have had abortions or have been complicit in abortions, as the McKennas were. They know abortion is wrong, but they bet ahead of time that God will not really blame them — He’ll blame only the abortionist.
Regarding the comments about Catholics. Yes Catholics should be compassionate to everyone including sinners, but one of the Spiritual Works of Mercy is to “Admonish the sinner!” I know, I know – every time I say that people repeat the ONE verse of the Bible they have memorized “Judge not lest ye be judged.” Judgement IS a spiritual work of mercy and one WE will be judge for by God.
Did we try to help the sinner – not by acceptance but by telling him/her they were wrong! Yes, it is helpful to them! Those who disagree may need to delve a bit deeper into the teachings of the Church.
Does that mean we ostracize them? No, but it does mean we should not make them feel what they did was right so they continue to sin.
Kristen, I agree 100%!
In addition to my above post I want to state that this IN NO WAY means we can judge her salvation. God is all loving and merciful. I do not know what God plans for her and I will not speculate on it. My intention was just to show what the Catholic Church says about the judgement of sins. Judge the sin, not the soul.
Then why all the judgment for the parents? The husband? The mom?
I am pretty sure the parents and husband KNOW what they did was wrong or at the very least are questioning their actions as they sit in their grief.
Ya think???????????
I am so tired of those that speak of not judging but it is ok to constantly say, “Who would do that? Why in the world would they do that? How can anyone do that? Why would they go to Carhart? Why didn’t they do this? Why didn’t they do that? What kind of mother does this? What kind of parents are they?”
It is done. Why ask why?
You know the best time to make sure people know they are sinners? Right after their daughter and wife died, apparently.
The whole speculating over Jennifer’s final end hasn’t died down, I see.
Carla, not sure if that question was directed at me but in case it was, the judgement of the parents and husband is because of what I stated before. I don’t know what they feel now exactly, but I know in my own life and in plenty of people I know, sin is often transferred to others. Meaning – do I know down deep I did something wrong? Maybe, but we try to blame others. ”If she hadn’t done that to me…” This deflects the blame of the sin to someone who didn’t commit the sin. They likely will blame the abortionist (I do as well) but that takes the gravity of the sin away from them self, makes them feel wronged and misplaces blame.
I think it helps people cope but that is not the way God will see it. God will certainly judge the abortionist but these people will be judged as well. If Catholics only commiserate with them rather than let them know they were wrong we are not doing our part as their Catholic brothers and sisters. I hope they confess their part and ask for forgiveness. So no, I don’t know they KNOW what they did was wrong.
I have a friend who was living with a man she was engaged to. This really bothered her and she went to confession to ask for absolution. The priest asked where she was going after her confession, she said home (to the house she shared with her fiance.) The priest said he couldn’t absolve her because she was going right back to sin again. (Not a good confession.) This woman blamed the priest! She saw nothing wrong with the very thing SHE had gone to confession for absolution from. Talk about the gymnastics a mind has to go through to justify something! She came to me with “Can you believe that?!” Um, yes. What did you think he was going to do? I’m just glad the priest was a good and faithful servant – he didn’t tell her what she wanted, he told her what she needed. Performing a spiritual work of mercy.
Oh Jack.
Perhaps we could go knock on their door this week and remind them of what has happened to their family.
I mean that would be the most loving thing we could do.
Hi Kristen,
I am a post abortive mom. Heard it all before.
How do you think they feel about now? You and I could probably imagine couldn’t we?
And the loving thing to do?
Grieve with those who grieve and mourn with those who mourn.
I can’t help but contrast this emptiness and very sad series of events with the very positive elation I feel from merely watching Nick Vojic (aka Jill’s video-of-the-day). Is God here …. really? Sometimes, it takes the wonder of the NICK’s to have anything, … to know that ALL human life is special.
‘I have a dream …’ MLK
Carla, I am very sorry for the pain you have suffered as a “post-abortive Mom”. There but for the grace of God go I.
I am sure the McKennas are suffering very much. Yet I cannot abide being chided to stop criticize them because they, as another poster wrote, have “lost two beloved family members”. The McKennas loved the baby they thought their grandchild was; when they learned she wasn’t going to be that baby, they arranged to have her killed. Had Jennifer, the baby’s mother, not died, the baby would have been incinerated at the abortion clinic or tossed out with “medical waste”. What I just wrote isnot conjecture; it is fact. Yet my asserting that is seen as more offensive than the fact itself.
I know exactly what happens to the bodies of little ones that have died in abortion.
Criticize away.
“I am sure the McKennas are suffering very much. Yet I cannot abide being chided to stop criticize them because they, as another poster wrote, have “lost two beloved family members”. The McKennas loved the baby they thought their grandchild was; when they learned she wasn’t going to be that baby, they arranged to have her killed. Had Jennifer, the baby’s mother, not died, the baby would have been incinerated at the abortion clinic or tossed out with “medical waste”. What I just wrote isnot conjecture; it is fact. Yet my asserting that is seen as more offensive than the fact itself”
Actually, a lot of the babies that are killed for fetal defect or disease are taken to be buried and grieved by the parents. I am not saying it’s right to abort. I am not saying that at all. It just seems like in your rush to condemn and assert what’s right you are forgetting that these people paid in the worst possible way for their choice. If they were right in front of you, crying their eyes out over the loss of their daughter and granddaughter, wife and daughter, would you really sit there and tell them how bad and what sinners they are? Do you think that’s the appropriate time for that?
Spot on Jack.
Much of the information came from illegally obtained hospital records, dumpster diving and protesters taking pictures of her outside a clinic.
Dumpster diving is not illegal. If someone throws something away, it’s fair game. Period. Taking pictures is also legal, provided the picture-taker does not trespass to do so. However, I will grant that the fact that this information is public could mean that the law was broken. By Carhart. As a supposed medical expert, it was his responsibility to uphold HIPPA. He failed. Unless Jennifer Morbelli’s name is sourced to someone who was told by the family, the fact that we know it is yet another reason–on a growing list of them–Carhart should be banned from medical practice.
Is it just me or do all abortion facilities seem like clinics in a 3rd world country??
You are right: websites such as A Heartbreaking Choice are evidence that people do mourn the babies they abort. Are you arguing that we therefor should not point out the barbarity of killing whom we know to be our babies? Carla has told the world that she made a mistake, that her baby deserved to live. Does that mean when we don’t condemn her, we are sending the message that abortion is a moral choice? No! Until the McKennas let the world know that they regret ON PRINCIPLE that they were complicit in their daughter’s abortion, it would be a mistake to tell the world “of course, the mckennas meant no harm”.
Until the McKennas let the world know that they regret ON PRINCIPLE that they were complicit in their daughter’s abortion, it would be a mistake to tell the world “of course, the mckennas meant no harm”.
Not to be rude, but why do the Mckennas owe the world or need to let the world know anything? I know we live in an age where people feel compelled to show us their lives on ‘reality’ TV and write tell-all books, but in my opinion there’s far too much of that. Their regrets and grief over the loss of their child and grandchild should be part of their lives and their concern–it shouldn’t be ours.
Carla,
I have been visiting this blog for many years. I know you are a post abortive mom. I am not judging anyone, I am very sad about this. However, these people are Catholic. As Catholics we have a duty to help people to heaven.
I know you are not Catholic, but I also know you are very close to God. Everyone can do what they think is best. I believe that it is my duty to acknowledge the fact that these people sinned. As Catholics they should understand this, i am guessing though that they misunderstand a lot of what the Church teaches given the circumstances.
So it is a Catholic thing?
What? Admonishing the sinner? I guess. Maybe I’m reading into what you said but it seems like maybe you are saying Catholics are uncharitable. Maybe you aren’t.
Let’s say you are. I just want to switch it around to make people think. I hope you’ll forgive me for using you as an example.
You are a post abortive mom who regrets her decision. Would it help you if people now tell you what you did was okay? You were in a bad spot, unmarried, etc…whatever. Their intention is to help you cope they are not bad people.
I have read your comments on this blog and even when those words are offered as a comfort to you, you (kindly) remind the commentor that the responsibility was yours. That your daughter deserved life. Its almost as if you take offense (for lack of a better word because I dont think you are offended) to their words because it devalues your daughter. What we do as Catholics is nothing more than what you have done yourself. (This is my own impression and maybe not your feelings at all.). I do think you do it to show others who are in the situation you were in that there is an alternative, basically trying to stop someone from committing the same sin.
Our ends are the same. I prefer to think of it as a Christian thing.
Correct me if I’m wrong, Kristen and Utehagen, but I don’t think you’re condemning the Morbellis and McKennas per se. Rather, you’re looking askance upon the tendency of folks to mitigate the objective wrong they did because now they’re suffering some unintended consequences. Carhart acted despicably, to be sure. But he would never have touched Jennifer had they not, of their free will, walked into his abortuary and plunked down the money to have Madison murdered. We’re fools if we think that the family can be absolved of any culpability whatsoever. If we really think that, then by extension we must believe that they are incompetents.
I forgot to mention that a priest was with Jennifer sometime before she died. Presuming she was able to receive absolution, a private Catholic funeral is quite licit.
Yes Janet, exactly. And I am SO glad that she had a priest with her before she died! I had not heard that.
Janet Baker, as the old Top 40 son goes, “You’ve got it! Baby, you’ve got it.”
Kristen,
Does it help when people call me a murderer? Since nobody has ever told me what I did was ok. Well except for the mill “counselor.”
Does it help when people call all post abortive women murderers?
The Holy Spirit convicts the hearts of others. Not me.
Sorry. I must be a fool. I firmly believe ALL women are victims of abortion. Along with their children.
And with that I will wish you all a wonderful weekend!!
Carla, you are not a murderer. I am very sorry if my words have hurt you. Our exchange today has made me more resolutely opposed to abortion. Thank you for your candor. God bless you.
No worries at all utahagen!!
Your words have not hurt me. Honest.
I am the daughter of a King!
I am forgiven and set free!
I have repented of paying an abortionist to kill my daughter.
And people STILL want to make sure that I know that what I have done is wrong.
Carla,
I’m pretty sure I never called you a murderer. In fact I said that people may try to comfort you and justify it by saying you were in a bad place. This doesn’t help anyone.
My post was to explain why Catholics can say an action is wrong if it is against the teachings of the Church, and that this does not mean we are judging their eternal souls. Always this should be done with charity, which I have tried to demonstrate in my posts. I have not condemed anyone.
You have taken offense with something my Church teaches. I have tried my best to explain it. I cannot help what you read into it and if you turned what I said into me saying you were a fool that’s on you.
My position has not changed. I know yours hasn’t either. Again, my post was to inform those unaware of the Catholic teaching. If this family were not Catholic my point would be moot.
Nobody has EVER told me what I did was ok or right or tried to comfort me and justify my abortion.
They have called me a murderer instead.
No. YOU didn’t.
Abortion is wrong. Abortion is murder. I believe that. Kinda goes without saying I guess.
No I am not offended. Janet Baker mentioned something about being a fool.
We’re fools if we think that the family can be absolved of any culpability whatsoever.
Ok. Anyway……..goodnight.
“And people STILL want to make sure that I know that what I have done is wrong. ”
Of course I can’t speak for everyone but this is very wrong. As you said you repented. That is enough.
In my earlier post when I used you as an example I wasn’t saying that people should continue to tell you you were wrong only that people shouldn’t say you were right. There is a difference. Saying you were right may lead others to the same fate.
Basically I’m saying you have been an exemplary speaker for the unborn. Your actions now are beyond reproach, and anyone who continues to punish you should examine their own life.
Carla, for the record I stand by my words. It defies common sense to believe that this family has no scintilla of culpability whatsoever. All during that week they were approached by sidewalk counselors. They angrily rebuffed those counselors, betraying their stung consciences. As a Catholic, I now pray that they do seek the Sacrament of Reconciliation so that they can know real peace with Jesus. Actually they can be absolved in Confession.
Why would they want to talk to sidewalk counselors who seem to just be there to spread gossip? I wouldn’t discuss anything personal with people who apparently think they are saving babies by digging through trash and taking photos to later compare to obits so they can make sure to shame the family. Also, in an earlier story, it was revealed that some “anonymous” source from the hospital, not the clinic, had confirmed the story but couldn’t reveal his/her identity because they had violated HIPAA laws. This whole story could have been told without naming names of the victim or her family, loads of unconfirmed gossip and sick, sick behavior like combing the obits to find the woman, going to her Pinterest and baby registry and then piling on a grieving family in a moment of weakness. I am so sorry for this family and I’ll say again that there some people who proclaim to be Christians who have gotten a bit too full of themselves. Time for them to work on themselves before castigating the sins of others. Sorry, I just don’t see Jesus doing any of this and even if a person is not Christian, I don’t think it is ethical or kind. It certainly is not loving your neighbor but rather finding joy in their sorrow. Hopefully, none of the dumpster divers and busy bodies are actually getting paid for their nonsense. This money and time could be so much better spent helping mothers and children rather than stalking a grieving family.
Tenn, Should we withhold the names of those who enable and cover-up for molesters and rapists?
Janet,
I do believe that the family was completely MISGUIDED in their attempt to HELP their daughter. Absolutely they listened to professionals who advised abortion as a way of dealing with a poor prenatal diagnosis. They followed through on payment to the butcher named Carhart and waited days in a hotel and now two family members are dead.
BUT I seriously doubt they are sitting around thinking they did the right thing. Their actions brought death and destruction. Grief and pain.
God help them.
Carla, this is a shining example of how the Catholic Church has failed miserably in the last 40-50 years to teach, without regret, the sanctity of life.
It remains to be seen as to how this family will sit around. I’m praying that their grief will turn into action for the pro-life side. If they choose to go to Confession, get absolution and then turn around and promote “choice”, then they deserve nothing but disgust from the rest of us.
Wow really?
Nothing but disgust? I have more compassion than that.
My disgust rests on Carhart and anyone else who told this family in their time of shock that ABORTION would be the “best” thing to do.
Kristen,
If anyone ever tells me that abortion was the right thing for me I will give them an ear full!! :)
Most likely, the baby was either already dead or dying at the time of the abortion. I suspect that the structural abnormalities were such that only a c-section was possible at the hospital, and the abortion offered her a way to deliver vaginally. And yes, that is still considered an abortion when the fetus has already passed.
No we should not withhold the names of rapists and child molesters. That is discussing apples and oranges. Besides, laws cover medical workers under mandatory disclosure to report these issues to Child Protective Services and the Police. There was no issue of rape or child molestation in this case. It does not give medical workers in hospitals the right to reveal private patient information so Jill Stanek and Operation Rescue can gleefully reveal the name of a woman who died. The information found outside the doctor’s office was awful as well but as disturbing as it is, if a patient took a post-it with an amount on it and then threw it in the trash themselves that is not illegal. The apparently bloody medical waste is disgusting and against the law. The clinic needs to be investigated. The hospital needs to fire the person who broke HIPAA. The leader of Operation Rescue snapping pictures of families in crisis and digging in trash needs to find something better to do with her time than gossip and peruse obits. All the people who have engaged in wild speculation and condemned this woman’s family need to ask for forgiveness. This was a private matter for the family and then a matter for the police when it seemed there was negligence or worse. The truth is, we don’t know what led them to that awful place and we don’t know what was wrong with fetus. Rampant speculation and condemning the entire extended family to hell doesn’t help. What the public needs to know will be released as part of the investigation. I find the whole thing to be sick, and pro-lifers getting joy in milking all the little private details out of her death seems like they are rejoicing. Too much public “look how holy I am” for my taste.
Joey, if the baby died in utero, every hospital in nyc would have been able to deliever it vaginally or via csction…legally. I don’t believe for a second they went to carhart for anything besides an abortion. New york city has the best hospials in ther world and middle class people don’t flee westchester county for low-rent abortion clinics because they can’t get good ob/gyno care. She had an abortion at 33 weeks. Defend their reasons and states of mind, but don’t spin away facts.
Tenn, Reread my question and then answer the question I asked. Thanks.
This question is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. I have already stated that cases of child molestation involve mandatory report laws so covering that up would be illegal. In most states adults have the option to not report a rape to the authorities so no, it would not be justified to violate their privacy. Also, it would not be moral to spread gossip that is unfounded about child molestation or rape. Also, the names of rape victims and victims of child molestation are not allowed to be released to the media, neither are the names of their family members. You are comparing apples to oranges and it has nothing to do with this case. So I’ll ask you the question-Do you think the Jesus portrayed in the Bible would behave the way people did on this site?
The story could’ve been told without revealing the name of the girl involved–I’m sure the last thing the family needs at this time is harassment from the press and the general public.
Tenn, Would you support outing those who enabled a rape if the rape victim passed away?
I am not going down this path anymore. Comparing a rape victim to a woman who died during an abortion are not remotely similar so this conversation is pointless. If you support the rampant speculation and cruel remarks, not to mention violating the family’s privacy that is up to you. I am repulsed by it. I don’t think the young woman who passed away was “enabled” in her death by her family. I have no problem with naming the doctor. I also don’t think that it did anything to win others to your cause. Personally, I plan to let the many people I know who donate to pro-life causes that part of side walk counseling seems to be creepy stalking and gossip. I hope they find other places to give their money and time actually helping keep people alive.
Carla, reread what I said before acting shocked. I clearly said we don’t know how this family will be, given time. Speaking from a purely Catholic perspective, since they are Catholic and all (I am too and know about the Sacrament of Reconciliation), I clearly said that if this family goes to Confession, recieves absolution, then continues to promote support of their choice, then they deserve our disgust. If they go to Confession, recieve absolution and then either quietly return to their life or actually uphold the teaching of the Church in which they profess (to wit: become active in the pro-life movement), the good!
There is a reason the Church says that anyone involved in an abortion (which means having one, helping someone procure one, or encouraging someone to have one) is culpable and therefore self ex-communicates themselves and must go to Confession before returning to the Church lest they bring scandal. They cannot have a worthy Confession if they intend to continue to defend the choice of abortion.
That whole dusting of the dirt off your feet will come in to play eventually. Apparently even the Apostles didn’t have the time to keep waiting for someone to turn from their obstinate sins and repent.
I feel for this family and can only pray for mercy for them. I am quite certain they hurt like hell right now, but I can’t even begin to tell you how I pray that this will encourage them to be strong advocates for the pro-life movement. To endure something as horrible as they have been through and to willfully remain obstinately pro-abortion would just be so very sad.
At 2:32am today Tenn said “Why would they want to talk to sidewalk counselors who seem to just be there to spread gossip?” Tenn, I know the sidewalk counselors involved and can therefore say your question is entirely stupid and illogical. They were there offering help and assistance. For the record, 80 women have listened to them and in fact one little boy was born this past week. And what is this “finding joy in their sorrow” crap?? No one of us finds joy in this and we hope that the State of Maryland government sheds its own pro-abortion bias and finally does its job to rid Maryland of charlatans like Carhart so that there are no more deaths from abortion.
Carla wrote, “I do believe that the family was completely MISGUIDED in their attempt to HELP their daughter.” I would hold that their being misguided is at least partially to their charge. Each and every one of us has a duty to properly form our own conscience; no one is exempt. They may well have failed to do so. Moreover, I cannot believe that the parents, who were most likely my age if not older, didn’t have some inkling that their grandchild’s life hung in the balance. Their very belligerence to the sidewalk counselors at Germantown would bear this out. But I do join with you in hoping that they now see the error of their way and have repented, for there is no other avenue to true peace after something like that.
Clearly these sidewalk counselors did not keep their information private and to themselves. Unless you, Janet Baker, are representative of the state of Maryland or another investigative body who has the power to shut down this clinic then the only purpose of sharing this information with you was to spread gossip. I personally have sat at an outdoor cafe and listened to two fine upstanding sidewalk counselors discuss loudly enough for me to hear one table over (I was alone) who had been at a clinic they were picketing, how many times, whose niece was there, who was a whore and they were laughing about it over coffee. What you have said here just proves my point–they weren’t going to keep their interactions with the family confidential and obviously didn’t since they told you and you posted it for the entire world to see. That is probably why the family didn’t want to interact with them. If they have helped others then I am happy and hope the clinic does get shut down. My biggest complaint has been the lack of respect for the families privacy. If sidewalk counselors want to speak to families then great. They don’t need to “report” who they see coming and going from the clinic unless it is relevant to an investigation.
“Rather, you’re looking askance upon the tendency of folks to mitigate the objective wrong they did because now they’re suffering some unintended consequences.”
Exactly. This. Exactly.
“BUT I seriously doubt they are sitting around thinking they did the right thing. Their actions brought death and destruction. Grief and pain.”
And if it had not? If they got to take their daughter home with ‘only’ blood of their grandchild on their hands, would it then be the loving thing to admonish the sin?
“Wow really? Nothing but disgust? I have more compassion than that.”
If you read what dirtdartwife wrote, she said that she would have disgust if the family confessed and continued to promote their action as good. That is not repentence. And it is not compassionate to pretend that it is.
I don’t think we have enough information to know for sure either way. Those defending the family are based just as much in conjecture as those saying they must have known what they were doing. We just don’t know. Either way, I am praying for all involved, especially baby Madison who was the intended victim.
Comparing a rape victim to a woman who died during an abortion are not remotely similar so this conversation is pointless.
Again, re-read what I wrote. I was comparing those who cover up and enable rape to those who cover up and enable abortion. Again, my question was ”Would you support outing those who enabled a rape if the rape victim passed away?” Why or why not?
If you support the rampant speculation and cruel remarks, not to mention violating the family’s privacy that is up to you. I am repulsed by it.
I am repulsed by the actions of people, family or not, who encourage, coerce, support, cover-up, threaten, bully, pay for and all around enable others to kill their unborn children. I am also repulsed by the actions of those who sweep this enabling under the rug and wave their fingers at those who are doing the most to shed light on the atrocity of abortion.
My biggest complaint has been the lack of respect for the families privacy.
Welcome to the world of abortion without apology. You can’t have it both ways. If you want respect, it’s simple. Behave respectfully.
Thank you, Jill, for shedding light on this tragedy. God Bless You as you continue to be a valuable leader to the prolife movement.
I don’t think we have enough information to know for sure either way.
The Daily Mail News states, “Maryland currently allows clinics to perform late-term abortions in cases where the fetus develops an abnormality. In contrast, New York law allows such abortions only when the mother’s health or life is in danger.”
Yet another sad aspect of this tragedy is that, at least from what I can tell from the filmmaker’s Facebook page, this event does not seem to have stalled the progress of the “After Tiller” documentary, which apparently portrays Mr. Carhart in a favorable, even heroic, light as one of the last “doctors” who offers late-term abortions in the United States.
Last night I blogged about a Washington Post column by Petula Dvorak, who is unabashedly progressive in her moral views. She too carried on about “privacy”. Here we have Tenn waxing indignant about the same thing. Boys and girls, can we all say “damage-control talking points”? Tenn, this “privacy” rhetoric of yours coupled with your trash-talking of sidewalk counselors whom I know and you don’t cause me to suspect that you’re not quite as pro-life as you self-portray.
Speaking of “privacy”, where have we heard that before? Yes – it was an underlying theme to the Roe v Wade decision, the right to murder a baby without public outcry. Well, there’s going to be an outcry and it will be a loud one.
Tenn, while I am not an official, I am a Maryland citizen who must hold my public offials accountable. They are pro-abortion. Now that there is a name and a face, they aren’t going to wiggle out of this one so easily.
Carhart is the principal evil agent in all of this.
.
The family was in distress, but Carhart wasn’t under any emotional duress.
.
Carhart is the cold blooded killer.
Also, the names of rape victims and victims of child molestation are not allowed to be released to the media,
That is just wrong. Our constitution guarantees the accused the right to face his accuser. Rape victims should have to play by the same rules.
Praxedes, abortion when the mother’s life is in danger is legal in New York State even in the third trimester. So, there isn’t much “we can do what we can to stop” abortions when an OB/Gyn asserts the mother may die if she doesn’t have one.
Abortion in the third trimester takes like 3 days and is far more dangerous than a C-section. If the woman’s life is in danger, the doctor does a C-section and tries to save the child and usually does. It is total BS that abortion is done in the third trimester to save a mother’s life. That is not the standard of care. The safest thing for the mother is an early C-section. Of course, that doesn’t guarantee a dead baby like killer Carhart does.
Notice what the Duggars did when Michelle had a life threatening condition: early C-section. Her very premature baby survived and is now doing well.
Praxedes, abortion when the mother’s life is in danger is legal in New York State even in the third trimester. So, there isn’t much “we can do what we can to stop” abortions when an OB/Gyn asserts the mother may die if she doesn’t have one.
Abortion in the third trimester takes like 3 days and is far more dangerous than a C-section. If the woman’s life is in danger, the doctor does a C-section and tries to save the child and usually does. It is total BS that abortion is done in the third trimester to save a mother’s life. That is not the standard of care. The safest thing for the mother is an early C-section. Of course, that doesn’t guarantee a dead baby like killer Carhart does.
Notice what the Duggars did when Michelle had a life threatening condition: early C-section. Her very premature baby survived and is now doing well.
hippie, my last post was to point out that we do have enough information after CT said there was not enough info to know why an abortion was done. If the mom’s life was in danger or the child had already passed away, Jennifer would have been given medical care in her own state. I believe the mom and her family traveled out of state to abort Madison based on Madison’s handicaps.
I agree that Carhart is the principal evil here and also believe that those accused of rape have the right to face their accusers.
Janet, Tenn is not prolife. His/her statement of, I also don’t think that it did anything to win others to your cause gave him/her away.
If the mom’s life was in danger or the child had already passed away, Jennifer would have been given medical care in her own state. I believe the mom and her family traveled out of state to abort Madison based on Madison’s handicaps.
Totally agree here. Also, notice the Morbellis were not particularly shrewd. As soon as her child was dead, she could have showed up at her local hospital and got proper care. She never had to go back to that Carhart. No hospital would have refused to admit her given her medical condition. That would be malpractice. She could have said anything or nothing. She would have been admitted. So, yeah, scum prey on the weak willed like the Morbellis. Very sad all around and very clearly shows why this is so stupid and dangerous as well as evil.
” That is just wrong. Our constitution guarantees the accused the right to face his accuser. Rape victims should have to play by the same rules.”
Yeah. they have the right to face them in court. Which they do, rape shield laws don’t prevent that. They just prevent the media from plastering their face and name all over the place in some cases and humiliating the victim. There’s not constitutional guarrantee that you can use the media to humiliate your victim into dropping the case.
This is such a sad story, but like utahagen, I am puzzled as to why so many people feel that the family were somehow innocent unknowing victims of Carhart. They paid him a good deal of money (I don’t think he takes insurance), and drove down to his clinic, which is a good distance from their home, to have their niece/grandchild/daughter killed because they did not want a physically impaired child. We have no evidence that they were coerced or pressured. Why can’t prolifers understand and accept that there are many women who have abortions, who are not coerced, who have no regrets? They just don’t want to carry the chld to term. I had an acquaintance who was quite wealthy and expressed shock and dismay when I told her I was prolife. She and her partner never wanted children and had their baby aborted. No problemo. She went on to say that “all her friends” had had abortions, as if it were some kind of new diet or something they were trying. Our opponents act like abortion is something that women don’t take lightly, but I’ve met quite a few that do.
Have any of you ever seen the movie “Trainspotting?” It’s about a group of Scottish junkies and their rather horrendous adventures. Well, one of the characters, Renton, in one scene talks about all the lousy things he has done and says that in so many words, there is no excuse for his actions and admits “I’m just a bad person.”
I don’t know this family but they did a bad thing that resulted in the loss of their daughter and their granddaughter. Why is this so difficult to say?
Also, the names of rape victims and victims of child molestation are not allowed to be released to the media, That is just wrong. Our constitution guarantees the accused the right to face his accuser. Rape victims should have to play by the same rules.
The accused does have the right to face the victim–in court, and that’s as it should be. I’m a fan of trial by jury–not of trial by a sensationalist media. I don’t even believe in televising trials, though I seem to be in the minority in that opinion.
The problem with the favoritism toward alleged rape victims is that it makes it easier for the accuser to ruin an innocent man’s life, in those cases where he is not actually guilty. If the names are to be withheld from sensationalist media, then both names need to be withheld. Neither party should be able to leverage the media to ruin the life of the other.
Thank you, phillymiss. You said what I’ve been wanting to say for quite some time, only far more tactfully than I ever could have.
Phillymiss: well said. Sometimes people just murder in cold blood. After all, people kill their born children sometimes, and we can’t blame the medical establishment for that. I cannot even begin to guess what was going through the minds of these family members, but they owe humanity an explanation for their crime against humanity. As a human being, I am personally offended that such a depraved act of barbarianism was committed against another human being.
Hippie–I couldn’t agree more–keep both names out of the media until there has been an actual trial and verdict.
I don’t know this family but they did a bad thing that resulted in the loss of their daughter and their granddaughter.
Not hard to say.
I can say it without name calling and damning them all to hell.
Contrapasso!
I can say it without name calling and damning them all to hell.
Agreed. Carla. But I am sorry, I think Carhart is a MONSTER. He seems like he cares more about his horses than those babies he butchers and their mothers.
No sorries needed.
Carhart is a back alley abortionist hack. He murders for $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Trashing public sinners may seem like an entertaining pasttime, but this is all after the fact and before we speak, we should acknowledge our own sinfulness, in what we have done or not done to help others in a similar situation. But the medical community DOES have a responsibility to “do no harm”-and injustices like this must be exposed for the common good, however personally painful for the family it may be. I want to treat them with respect, for their losses, in hopes that they will have a prolife conversion and prevent another tragedy. We shouldn’t talk and act like the “other” side, these people have obviously been victimized, by their own poor judgement AND the Abortion Cartel. Also prolifers who pray at mills and monitor their activities are performing a noble servvice, babies are saved, and the women who do go in will always remember that someone cared enough to be there, should they change their mind. What was that Our Blessed Lord said about a “cup of water.”
I am a Catholic and it was painful and embarrassing to read what other Catholics posted but the devil is always ready to create division. Subdue the anger toward the abortionist and Jennifer’s family and put that energy into praying and fasting for those in need of conversion and let God do the rest. In the meantime there is work to do to bring abortionists to justice, close clinics and work for just legislation, etc.
EJ, nothing in my posts was inspired by the Devil. We have a right to be outraged at the murder of an innocent baby. I do not object to Morbelli’s being given a Catholic funeral and I hope a priest was indeed with her when she was dying (as was reported) and that she received last rites. I took care not to criticize her, but I did criticize her parents, who went with her and her husband to Carhart’s death factory. That middle class Catholics did this is horrible and THAT is what you, a Catholic, should be pained and embarrassed by.
Utahagen and EJ, I believe we not only have a right to be outraged but a DUTY to be outraged.
My point is that people of life are turning on each other in the heat of anger. “divide and conquer” comes to mind and that is exactly what the devil loves to do and what the people that have bought into the culture of death so love to exploit.
Jennifer’s family was wrong in accompanying her but now is the time to pray for their conversion and redirect any anger into something holier — praying and fasting for the salvation of souls: “As I live, says the Lord, I do not wish the sinner to die but to turn back to me and live.” This is the antiphon for the psalms from Midday prayer from the Divine Office.
That point didn’t come through, for you originally said “subdue the anger towards the abortionist”, not each other. Anger is a God-given emotion just like any other and of course must be controlled just like any other emotion. I do wholeheartedly concur that we must pray for the conversion of the family as opposed to assuming that they’re innocent dupes who have no culpability.
Everyone worried about offending people. Abortion is murder…period! That is a life growing with the nutrients only a mother can give. She decides to cut that off because of selfish reasons. I as a Christian am allowed to point out the sins mentioned in the bible. I am not allowed to judge anyone. I am required to help my fellow Christians to understand when they are sinning. God will forgive a murderer as well as any one else, but to justify abortion is insane. I am thankful that baby is in heaven now and not with these people that decided they didn’t want it and to do a horrible act on it.
Abortion is murder.
Thought we all were in agreement on that.
You are not allowed to judge anyone. But you have judged post abortive women as selfish. And feel it is your “job” to point out the sins of others.
Awesome.
And yes there is help and hope and forgiveness in Christ for post abortive women. Thank you Lord!!
Carla, knock it off. Danny judged no person. He judged the the MOTIVES of women contemplating abortion. There is a world of difference between “reasons” and “post-abortive women”, no?
I pray that the Holy Spirit may be heard by the family and that they may become the most vocal voice for all life…from conception to natural death. The circle of life needs to be preserved and honored. I have learned so much from those with “disabilities” and the old and infirm that I would not want a world where they are all wiped away. Pray for this family that they may be God’s voice in time.
“Carla, knock it off. Danny judged no person. He judged the the MOTIVES of women contemplating abortion. There is a world of difference between “reasons” and “post-abortive women”, no?”
Yeah… he judged motives when he and everyone else has no idea what they are. We don’t even know the diagnosis, much less why they thought abortion was the best option. Look, we’re always going to have a disconnect with people when we act as though people who seek abortions, especially for things like fetal disease or anomaly, are just being selfish. For all you know, they agonized and fell for the extremely ubiquitous idea that it’s more selfless and caring to abort a child who might suffer and die early than giving birth and perinatal hospice a chance. It’s not going to get that suffering couple who was just told their baby has serious defects and will probably die shortly after birth to come to us and get support, if they see cases like this involve rampant speculation about how terrible and selfish the family was.
This woman could have waited three more weeks, delivered her child and placed the baby for adoption with two loving parents who would welcome her. The child is the only victim here. The evil that encompassed this whole tragedy is profound.