If amniocentesis frightens baby, what does abortion do?
by Sarah Cleveland
Shortly after graduating from college and obtaining my board certification to become a Registered Diagnostic Medical Sonographer nearly 10 years ago, I was asked to fill in for a tech at a nearby OB/GYN office. I was honored by the request and accepted the offer.
When I arrived to work, I noticed there was an amniocentesis scheduled that afternoon. (In short, an amnio is a quick procedure that samples the fluid surrounding a baby in utero for further testing on the pregnancy.) And although I had assisted in dozens of procedures during clinical rotations in college, I had never before assisted with a live amniocentesis. And I was nervous about doing it. I knew the risks to the baby and momma (increased risk of miscarriage and uterine infection, albeit still low).
But what I didn’t anticipate was what I was actually going to see on the screen.
The afternoon came and pregnant Momma and in utero Baby arrived with Father, on time. We prepped and sterilized the surface of Momma’s belly as the OB doc got the long needle and syringe ready to sample the fluid. I placed the transducer over the uterus and saw a baby ~18 weeks gestation on the screen. He was kicking, playful, and happy. Then the doc inserted the needle.
Immediately, the baby knew something was in his space, that something was different. As I held the transducer to guide the needle to a safe area away from placenta and away from Baby, I saw Baby dart away from where we were in the uterus and move as far away as possible to the other side of the womb. He stopped kicking and playing.
Then the heart rate. His little heart rate sky rocketed. He was scared. In fact, I am convinced he was terrified.
After only about 20 seconds of withdrawing fluid, the needle was out. Procedure done. The doctor cleaned up and exited the room while I watched Baby for a few minutes longer, while the parents conversed with one another. The baby slowly, eventually, came out of the corner and the heart rate came down a little. It was time to stop scanning, and I said good-bye to the family.
Please think about this. This baby reacted this way when an instrument was introduced into his home – and this instrument’s intent was not to harm him. The baby was not the target, nor was the needle going after him. The needle never once touched him.
Then consider this: So what of it when something bigger than a needle is inserted into the uterus? What then, when the target is the baby? When a trained professional is aiming to remove this little guy, sometimes piece by piece, from the safety of his home? Image the terror he must feel when being pulled away from it. Image the physical pain that sometimes comes with it.
Let me be clear. It is neither the fear nor the baby’s pain that makes abortion the evil that it is. It is not because I could see the panic or because he had distinct and formed features that make it evil.
Abortion is evil because it destroys a child. It is evil because it murders a human being created in the image of God Himself. And I will fight against it until it is totally and utterly abolished.
Jill note: Sarah is in the hospital at this moment delivering baby #3 by c-section! Please join me in praying for their safety.
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
This is very interesting. For accuracy’s sake, I think an argument comparing the fear of an 18-week child to abortion makes sense, but I don’t think this argument would work for first-trimester abortions (most abortions) unless evidence could be shown that first-trimester embryos experience fear also.
Josh,
My first trimester ultrasound at 11-weeks gestation (that is about 9 weeks post-fertilization) began with my baby still and sleeping. Since they couldn’t see him well in the position he was in, the technician and the nurse told me they were going to wake the baby up. The technician rubbed the wand vigorously on my tummy with a little extra pressure for about three seconds (you could see the picture shake on the monitor). Immediately, my baby woke up and began moving around. He cartwheeled a time or two using his arms and legs to push off, and he gave four enormous mule kicks. He remained active for the rest of the ultrasound. It is patently obvious that even in the first trimester he could feel and react to the feelings he was experiencing. Like any person feeling an earthquake in the middle of his beauty sleep, he woke up and responded.
Saw my daughter squirm, flinch as result of a 17 week ULTRASOUND.
Did not look like random movements.
The technician said that…maybe…the baby was reacting to the ultrasound waves. She seemed afraid of saying the “p” word i.e. “pain”.
Still…looked to me that she was reacting in some pain to the ultrasound waves.
PS I delivered her…and she’s now 23!
My word, she must have skipped an awful lot of classes. I’m surprised she qualified! Or does sonographer training consist largely of technical stuff rather than biological?
Hope all goes well with bub #3.
As a recent sonographer grad, let me tell you Reality, that we don’t see everything during our clinical rotation. At my school we did 12 months of “book” work and scanning our fellow classmates as practice with only one day a week at a hospital or other facility. Then we had six months of just clinical hours in different hospital and departments (there are 4 main specialties- abdomen, vascular, echo (heart), and ob/gyn). I was trained in 3 of those areas in a 6 month period of time. Of course you’re not going to see all the procedures and situations unless you are in more specialized or high risk OB. So maybe you shouldn’t open your mouth until you know what you’re talking about. I don’t presume to know everything about what you do for a living. Stop being rude.
Well thank you for the information on sonographer training Sarah. Given the vast amount of information I have received on this very site and through the additional research necessitated by various discussions it is obvious that Sarah is applying terms and making observations which aren’t exactly textbook. I’m not being rude, I’m striving for accuracy.
Thank you Sarah.
You are spot on. About Reality.
“My word, she must have skipped an awful lot of classes. I’m surprised she qualified! Or does sonographer training consist largely of technical stuff rather than biological?” This is “Reality” … “Striving for accuracy“.
This is Pharmer, laughing at Reality, (who might someday find a reason to line up behind this week’s clot of apologizing leftist gaffe-monsters, led by Martin Bashir of NBC.)
It’s interesting to read what the nurses, docs and sonographers see in their practices on this blog.
Everyone who first enters health care practice is still training, and anyone who has been to a teaching hospital or worked at one, knows this.
As a matter of fact, the “textbook” is couple of years obsolete by the time it is published. Therefore, practicing health care by the “textbook” is substandard.
There is a spiritual element in health care which is brought up constantly in major medical journals. Much wringing of hands by the authors occurs now, as medicine wrestles with the conundrum of expecting integrity, competence and honesty from the types of people who would tolerate killing humans.
For Josh, if the thalamo-cortical connections are not laid down, it is not likely that a human will truly process a fear response to negative stimuli. Quite early in the first trimester, an aversion response to painful stimuli is apparent.
Think of an earlier abortion as similar to dismembering and cutting up a small animal slowly, while it is able to sense pain, but with an added moral problem, because the small animal is a human.
Hunters and stock yard managers train to make food animals die as quickly as possible, to minimize their suffering. Abortionists don’t generally seem to have that kind of concern guiding their methodology for killing humans prior to, during, and shortly after birth.
Apparently, even life itself is “nuanced” for “Reality,” but accuse him of being rude, and he’s just “striving for accuracy.”
Ha! Hahaha! Thank you for the laugh.
Don’t feed the troll, everyone.
Reality,
It’s clear from your handle how you perceive yourself, but you are hardly being ‘accurate’ by insinuating that the author of the article skipped classes and saying how surprised you are that she qualified. If you had an issue with “applying terms and making observations which aren’t exactly textbook”, you would have written about them instead of accusing someone of skipping out on their classwork which is, indeed, quite rude. Given she has her college degree, board certification, and 10 years experience by now in the field, what you said was wildly unwarranted. I don’t believe for a moment that trying to discredit someone by saying they must have “skipped an awful lot of classes” is anything other than an ad hominem attack and had nothing to do with your defense of “I’m striving for accuracy.”
Just somebody ban him already. I am so tired of the drivel.
Well I’m not laughing at you pharmer. I tend to agree with what you say about the whole process of learning and constant change in fields such as sonography. Your response to Josh started out well but then fell away somewhat.
No Meghan, what I said was not wildly unwarranted. While Sarah may be a thoroughly competent sonographer as far as the purposes of sonography go, she also made completely subjective and unscientific observations and conclusions.
We are told the fetus is at 18 weeks. An 18 week fetus does not feel pain. It’s reactions are instinctive, not sentient. It may well have been kicking but ‘playful’ and ‘happy’ are unscientific observations. That it was ‘scared’ and ‘terrified’ are also unscientific conclusions to draw. As are ‘fear’ and ‘panic’. That’s the accuracy I was striving for.
Does she, or anyone else here, think amniocentesis procedures should be banned based on her statement?
As far as I know (I had minimal exposure to high risk or tier 2 OB) amniocentesis is used to check the fetal DNA to see if there is a genetic anomaly like Down’s syndrome etc. Usually the recommended treatment for a positive diagnosis is death via abortion, so I do not think amniocentesis is a good thing. I don’t like it.
Thank you Sarah.
Are you against ultrasounds too? They too can show things which may lead to a decision to terminate.
“As far as I know (I had minimal exposure to high risk or tier 2 OB) amniocentesis is used to check the fetal DNA to see if there is a genetic anomaly like Down’s syndrome etc. Usually the recommended treatment for a positive diagnosis is death via abortion, so I do not think amniocentesis is a good thing. I don’t like it.”
The amnio isn’t the problem, it’s people’s attitudes about the unborn (and newborns, and people with special needs in general). The amnio is just a medical tool for diagnosis, which could be very useful to families who want to prepare for a baby with special needs, or if the infant would need surgery right after birth they can prepare for that or whatever. The problem is the attitudes. People used to expose or otherwise kill infants born with disabilities before abortion existed in the numbers it does now, so there’s been a long history of ableism contributing to the deaths of people with disabilities at the hands of their parents or others, and it’s quite removed from technology.
“Reality“: “Your response to Josh started out well but then fell away somewhat.”
C’mon “Reality” aren’t you up to a discussion on the abortionists method of killing, and why it falls so far below the standards used by others who kill animals for food? Are you lacking energy to justify those standards today?
Alternatively, you could discuss why the abortionists object to regulations which would place them on par with the sanitation and safety practices of other outpatient medical treatment centers.
What is causing many planned parenthood clinics close in the face of such regulations, while other medical facilities are able to comply?
The answer is not that Planned Parenthood is a charitable non profit. In contrast to PP, those institutions often provide free services, and they are not allowed to support political candidates with millions of dollars
Can you be any dumber Reality? I just told you before that I’m a recent ultrasound grad. Jack kindly clarified my feelings on medicine being used to kill unborn humans. Ultrasound is usually used for good, not for killing. I’ve used ultrasound to guide a biopsy needle & make sure a fetus still has a heartbeat. If amniocentesis is used for life saving or life affirming reasons then I don’t have a problem, but generally amino is not used that way.
Are you lacking energy to justify those standards today? – you’re comparing apples with flying squirrels, on more than one level.
Alternatively, you could discuss why the abortionists object to regulations which would place them on par with the sanitation and safety practices of other outpatient medical treatment centers. – or perhaps you could discuss why not all other outpatient medical treatment cemters are required to meet all the requirements being applied to abortion clinics. Or why the regulations were introduced in the knowledge that things such as hospitals being controlled by religious organisations, being afraid of disruptive anti-choice activities, requiring a minimum number of admisssions per year etc. mean that admitting rights are almost impossible to obtain.
What is causing many planned parenthood clinics close in the face of such regulations, while other medical facilities are able to comply? – anti-choice politicians.
The answer is not that Planned Parenthood is a charitable non profit. In contrast to PP, those institutions often provide free services, and they are not allowed to support political candidates with millions of dollars – look a little deeper pharmer.
Sarah, you said I do not think amniocentesis is a good thing. I don’t like it because it could identify a condition which may lead to abortion. Ultrasound can also identify conditions which may lead to abortion. Perhaps even more likely to. So are they are good or bad and should they be conducted or not?
Reality, you have really lost energy. Supporting killing can cause burnout. You might want to take a break.
Real non-profits can tout issues, but not spend on candidates as Planned Parenthood does.
Real outpatient surgical clinics have to maintain ADA compliant entrances and facilities, and keep crash carts and adequate resuscitation equipment. The halls have to be big enough to move gurneys. The ambulance doesn’t have to drive around to the back alley exit to transport a patient from the clinic to the hospital (as has been observed at PP mega mill in St Paul MN. (That’s a new facility, with really bad building design.)
There is a new problem rankling Planned Parenthood now. Their abortionists are so nasty that even hospitals that allow abortions don’t want an association with them. I guess that has to hurt.
How about you put some energy into this to start with pharmer.
‘Real non-profits’ are often supported by or affiliated with groups which do indeed ‘spend on candidates’.
Not all outpatient clinics have to meet all the standards being demanded of abortion clinics.
Your choice to ignore the real reasons why abortion doctors struggle to get admitting rights is one you are free to make.
sure the fetus could have had some automatic reflex. but this can be studied scientifically, and taken way past the level of anecdote. just image a hundred blobs of 18-week-old tissue during amniocentesis. record the ultrasound. then, analyze any resulting movement.
guttmacher/ planned parenthood has the money to explore this. they are heavily involved in a lot of birth control research – including drug research and research into attitudes and preferences of their target market. surely they could bankroll this study for a fraction of what it has cost them to help run some of the long term reversible birth control studies they have been involved with.
but then again, how foolish – coming up with a new drug or device means PP rakes in royalties, but showing that an 18-wk-old blob of flesh has intentional behavior would be bad for business.
showing that an 18-wk-old blob of flesh has intentional behavior would be bad for business – no TLD, what it would be is unachievable. The science already tells us that an 18 week fetus doesn’t possess the wherewithal for intentional behavior.
So kill her.
When did sentience mean intentional behavior? And yet the profound order found in all things (not just sentience) attests to a creator/God, no? Does order come from chaos? Its like putting a chimp in front of a typewriter and believing that his random activity will eventually produce the play ‘Henry II’. Of course the time-limit of his demise would need be an expected interference!
“Reality”: “How about you put some energy into this to start with pharmer.
‘Real non-profits’ are often supported by or affiliated with groups which do indeed ‘spend on candidates’.”
This is like saying that my kids’ grade school is somehow responsible for the candidates that I have supported, because the school has also been the recipient of my donations. “Reality”, your sad condition is more to be pitied than laughed at,
“Reality”:”Not all outpatient clinics have to meet all the standards being demanded of abortion clinics.”
I guess you mean that an outpatient orthopedic practice doesn’t have to stock methylergonovine maleate because they don’t scrape women’s uteruses, or otherwise cause them to bleed, as is done at abortion clinics. There are regulations particular to each type of practice. However, real outpatient medical facilities have to adhere to many other basic safety and access requirements as mentioned in the prior post, to which Planned Parenthood objects strenuously.
“Reality”: “Your choice to ignore the real reasons why abortion doctors struggle to get admitting rights is one you are free to make.”
Nope, I’m fully aware…… abortionists are unattractive to hospitals because they do nasty things, and/or generally possess a deficient set of medical skills, so that they present a liability to any legitimate practice.
Ya, Last Democrat, if Guttmacher was a real research institute, it would fund basic research in its field out of curiosity, as well as to improve its stature with the public.
But “Reality” not having had a good science education, did not learn that science NEVER proves a negative. There are some voids of knowledge which an untrained individual might mistake for negative “facts”.
Intentional behavior does not require fully developed thalamo-cortical connections, which are believed to be needed for an individual to process and attach emotions or abstract meaning to events or stimuli.
Can you be any dumber Reality?
LOL. You haven’t been around these parts long have ya? :)
What’s dumb is saying you don’t like one test procedure because it might show something which leads to a decision to terminate yet are quite happy with another test procedure which may show a range of causes for a decision to terminate. Maybe because it’s your job? Looming cognitive dissonance anyone?
Nope, I’m fully aware…… – well either you aren’t or you’re in denial.
But “Reality” not having had a good science education, did not learn that science NEVER proves a negative. – is that your attempt at joke of the day?
but wait, wait…
Intentional behavior does not require fully developed thalamo-cortical connections, which are believed to be needed for an individual to process and attach emotions or abstract meaning to events or stimuli. – you’ve topped it!
The abortion supporter is exhausted from compulsively posting, and can no longer articulate its “reasoning”.
“Reality” has run out of gas.
Indicative of your approach to and understanding of science pharmer, I’ll point out that we humans don’t run on gas.
Ringing the bell for Pavlov’s dog, who does not work well with metaphors….
The gas is O2 and “Reality”‘s shortage is called anoxia.
You stated that I was exhausted because I had run out of gas.
If I had run out of O2 – and the gases it is combined with on which we rely – I would be dead.
And it’s a bit rich for you to be espousing science given what you displayed earlier.
I have read here for a long time but have never commented before, but I HAD to speak up as far as some of the judgmental and ignorant comments being made about amnio. Amniocentesis SAVES LIVES. It is used to conduct tests that give a certain answer as far as what kind of treatment will be needed immediately after birth, in some cases. In other cases, it gives information that guides treatment for the baby while still in utero! It is especially important for mothers with a blood type isoimmunization, like me. Ultrasound and amnio are used to monitor of the condition of the baby so the doctors know when a lifesaving blood transfusion must be administered. Then, when it’s time, the exact same type of tools are employed to carefully direct donor blood into the umbilical cord. Without this, baby would die of heart failure secondary to severe anemia, or have to be delivered extremely premature.
These deaths used to happen all the time, women would have stillbirth after stillbirth, miscarriage after miscarriage once they developed the isoimmunization. Now they are preventable…because of amniocentesis. And that’s just one set of conditions. There are others, too.
When my baby went through the diagnostic procedures and when she received intrauterine blood transfusions, it was very frightening for me, and very stressful for our family. I would hate to think some ignorant technician was judging me or most insultingly, assuming I wanted to abort my daughter. :( She was sick, but we took care of her and helped her get better…using the tools of modern medicine. Which can be scary, and which can be misused, but which are not evil in themselves.
Please don’t hurt the pro-life cause by making judgmental assumptions about women and doctors who are just trying to find out more information so they can help babies survive and get well.
I’m curious about how this fetus was able to feel “pain” or “fear” considering that its brain hadn’t even developed to the point of being able to experience either of these things. She may want to re-evaluate her interpretation of its movements. Even sea anemones will react this way to invasive stimulus, that doesn’t make them sentient.
I like how the anti-choicers have run out of actual scientific arguments and have resorted to dehumanizing pro-choicers and suggesting that they’re too “tired” or “stupid” to have a valuable opinion. Top-notch debating skills right there.
Doesn’t matter if a fetus is sentient or not. We know that given time to grow, they will become more developed and aware. What matters is that a fetus is a human being that is alive and growing. There’s no debate about any of these facts, the debate comes when pro-death people bring attitude and negativity in to a pro life thread on a pro life website. I guess it must come naturally with the embrace of selfishness and violence.
Pro-choice is not pro-death. I’ve never met a pro-choice activist who wants more women to seek out abortions. Access to safe, legal abortions means fewer deaths, as fewer women turn desperately to practitioners who are not qualified or to methods that are far more dangerous than what clinics can provide. The anti-choice movement turns a blind eye to the fact that if a woman wants an abortion badly enough, she will get one, even if it means some back-alley nightmare that’s likely to leave her dead too. If you think any woman who chooses abortion deserves to bleed out in a motel room somewhere, you have a much tighter hold on selfishness and violence than the average pro-choicer.
Nothing wrong with amnio.
Until it is used to diagnose a child and then kill her.
J,
Prochoice=Proabortion=Prodeath
Own it.
Any thoughts on the women that have died since 1973? Google Tonya Reaves or Laura Smith.
So very safe. Safe as kittens except for the fact that they died along with their children in their “safe” abortions.
Any woman that shoves a coat hanger inside of her is in desperate need of psychological care. Self harm and self injurious behavior should be handled by trained professionals.
btw the “back alley” is a myth. Before Roe women had abortions in doctor’s offices. The death rate in 1972? Around 39.
Tiller? He killed one woman.
Gosnell? He killed one too.
Carhart? I do believe he killed another. Her name was Tonya Reaves.
Oh so very, very safe.
So if an innocent human being cannot feel pain we can kill them.
Good to know.
Why don’t ALL of you that are proabortion move to a more recent thread instead of hiding back here? :)
Regardless of how any of you feel about abortion this article is still wrong. Fetuses this young cannot feel pain or fear. Its biologically impossible. Just because this woman is on your side doesn’t mean you need to agree with everything she says. If you need to rely on lies to make your point then your point sucks.
If you really care about this issue then you should at least have the decency to do some proper research and come up with some valid arguments. A good first step would be to look at the arguments being made by the other side. Only once you are familiar with these arguments and have at least some basic understanding of human development should you try to engage in activism. Not doing so isn’t just lazy, its irresponsible and we end up with idiots like the one who wrote this article spreading misinformation and frankly lies to the general public.
Like the “argument” that life begins at conception and ALL human beings follow the same development in the womb? That? Humans make humans. Basic biology.
And the truth that abortion ends the life of an innocent fully alive human being? The intent of an abortion is to kill. A tiny baby tries to get away from the vacuum in the womb. Not hard to believe at all. Unless killing for any reason is reason enough for you.
I hardly need advice about my activism. Lol
I suggest YOU do your homework.
PS
Carhart just sent another woman to the ER after he botched ANOTHER abortion. His 3rd botched abortion in 2013!!!
Not safe.
Not rare.
Only Legal.
I love this!!
http://www.buzzfeed.com/personhoodusa/top-10-mind-blowing-images-of-human-life-in-the-wo-drqv