Supreme Court decision watch: MA buffer zone case
UPDATE 6/16, 10:30a: All decisions for today have been released, and this one wasn’t included. We await Thursday.
6/16 10:04a: An important Supreme Court decision is anticipated, either in a few minutes or Thursday morning, on a case of significance to pro-life activists. Abortion proponents are also watching for this decision closely. So I’m giving you a heads-up and backdrop.
Buffer zone around abortion
At issue is a Massachusetts law that mandates a 35-foot buffer zone around abortion clinics, which pro-lifers cannot breach. Variations of this buffer zone law are popping up around the country, obviously to try to mitigate our contact with mothers about to abort their babies. This is about the First Amendment right of free speech. It is also about the Fourteenth Amendment right of equal protection, since these laws unfairly and unequally target pro-lifers, but not unions or civil rights protesters, etc.
Quoting SCOTUSblog.com, January 15, when oral arguments were heard:
Between the complete silence of Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., on the issue on Wednesday and the very active commentary and questioning of Justice Elena Kagan seems to lie the fate of state laws that seek to protect abortion clinics, their patients, and their staffs. It seemed apparent, in a new “buffer zone” case from Massachusetts, that the Chief Justice holds the key vote on how far such zones are likely to be restricted, but that Kagan may help provide some cover for a decisive ruling that mandated narrower zones.
The three dissenters from the Court’s last major ruling in favor of abortion clinic buffer zones left no doubt in the hearing on McCullen v. Coakley that they have not changed their minds, and it appeared more than likely that Justice Samuel A. Alito, Jr., will join their opposition. If the Chief Justice were also to become an ally, buffer zones that are not confined explicitly to stopping violence or actual physical obstruction may well be doomed altogether- on strict First Amendment principles.
That scenario would clearly nullify a 2007 law passed in Massachusetts that makes it illegal - with a few exceptions - for anyone to “knowingly enter or remain on a public sidewalk adjacent to a reproductive health facility, within a buffer zone that extends outward 35 feet of any entrance, exit or driveway.”
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
But another pro-life free speech case did come down today–the SBA List challenge to Ohio’s restrictions on political campaign statements, and the Court ruled in the SBA List’s favor. That’s not the end of the matter–it really just gives the SBA List permission to continue its challenge in the Ohio courts–but it’s a good sign.
On a side note, you know abortion advocates have gone overboard with their censorship when there are TWO Supreme Court cases on that topic going on simultaneously.
We are also anticipating a decision soon about Hobby Lobby and the HHS Mandate…. do the owners of private businesses have the human right of conscientious objection to pay for abortion-causing drugs?
Actually the buffer zone also affects pro+choice advocates from approaching within 35 feet of the clinic too, so I hope it’s upheld. There have been too many incidents of violence at clinics to give any leeway to pro-life protesters. The women entering these clinics have the right not to be harassed as they enter a medical facility.
Tee: You seem be ignoring the fact that 65 – 70% of these women/girls are being coerced into the abortion and think this is their only option. It is imperative that pro-lifers be there to let them know it is not. They can be assisted and given counseling and access to other services FREE. Tell me-when you put out your hand to assist someone who has fallen down do you call that harassment also? As for violence, 99% of the time it comes from the pro-abortion crowd.
I’m not sure what you are talking about, Tee.
There are plenty of incidents in which violent persons attack the pro-life counsellors and folks in peaceful prayer. This law actually emboldens the violent pro-choicers in their attacks. It does not increase safety on the sidewalks.
The abortion industry insists that any offer of help to women entering their facility is “harassment.” But often enough, we are the last help that a woman has to protect her from the abusive husband or father or pimp, and from the frightening sales pitch inside. Our presence is often the only thing that is preventing the abortion industry from covering up child abuse.
The buffer zone does not solve the red-herring problem.
If a pro-lifer physically obstructs someone from going into a place of business under normal circumstances, there are already laws for that. It would be the same if politically active vegetarians blocked the entrance to a grocery store.
No issue to discuss there.
If a pro-life advocate shoves or hits someone, there are laws for that.
No issue to discuss there.
Those “arguments” are red herrings. Any effort to support pro-choice advocacy will eventually require a red herring. Killing children ultimately cannot stand on its own as any sort of legitimate, acceptable activity.
Nice of Tee to be the warrior to come embarrass himself or herself here throwing out these patently disingenuous red herrings.
Mr. Tee does have a point:
The abortion industry insists that every woman approaching their building is fully informed and have freely chosen with mature discernment to end this pregnancy in a gleaming medical facility that very safe, legal, and good.
In this mythology, pro-lifers are only a nuisance whose only purpose is to harass and frighten customers.
The abortion industry can buy to support of city council members, who repeat the myth and enact laws that favor the abortionists.
We accomplish nothing by insulting Mr. Tee here.
– We need to get the truth out to the public.
– We need the testimonies of women who have been hurt by abortion and abused by the abortion industry.
– We need to help people remember the women who were killed by abortion last year.
– We need to share the stories of women who have been helped by Pregnancy Centers — for months, and for free.
We need to help the public understand that the pro-lifers on the sidewalk are a necessary part of comprehensive care for women — women who are not being informed and whose needs are not being met by the abortion industry alone.
You may attack my stance all you want, I have accompanied a young lady as her companion to an abortion clinic before, and there are no buffer zones in my state. I had to use my umbrella as a makeshift wall to stop an elderly man from grabbing the young lady I was with to try to pull her away from the door. If you can’t say what you need to say from 35 feet away then maybe you should buy a bull horn. After having seen for myself how pro-life protesters act, I am in support of buffer zone laws.
Vicki-where on earth do you get your statistics? Women see a counselor before an abortion without anybody else present to ensure they aren’t being coerced, at least in my state that’s how it works. I worry more about women who are coerced into an unsafe pregnancy, where is our concern for them?
“Women see a counselor before an abortion without anybody else present to ensure they aren’t being coerced”
One conversation alone does not ensure a woman or girl is not being coerced. People asked me for years if I was being hurt by my husband before I admitted it; anyone who works with abuse victims knows this to be true and it is no different for the abuse victim who is coerced to abort.
Asking her if she is being coerced frees-up your conscience a bit more, doesn’t it?
“without anybody else present”
What? A woman can’t take a supportive, loving friend in with her to ensure she isn’t subjected to a high pressure sales pitch or erroneous dire warnings when being “counseled”? What if the coercion is on the part of the not-so-objective “counselor”?
Also, grabbing a stranger is against the law even where there are no buffer zones.
Praxedes-If a girl is being coerced she has the opportunity to say so in counseling. I for one think it’s an insult to women that you think they wouldn’t speak their mind in this situation. I had asked where you got your stats and you didn’t provide any, so you are just assuming your statistic?
I know many women who know what they’d do in an unwanted pregnancy situation, and no coercion is even an issue!
They leave the companion out of the counseling Lrning so that the woman is free to state her feelings, in case the so-called coercion is coming from the companion accompanying her.
And grabbing may be illegal but a woman with an appointment isn’t going to delay it to call the police, so the harassment is left alone-which is unfair to these women.
The counselor acts as a counselor, and they act with standards that pro-life people could never criticize were they to talk to these people!
“If a girl is being coerced she has the opportunity to say so in counseling. I for one think it’s an insult to women that you think they wouldn’t speak their mind in this situation.”
Yeah, because whether he’s sitting with her in the abortionist’s room, is in the waiting room, is in the car, is at home, or is waiting in the dark alley for her holding the restraining order, counseling appointments with people who support the killing of her child will make her feel so much safer.
Has your life ever been threatened? Have you ever been beaten or strangled? Have you had a gun held to your head or been thrown through a door? How exactly does killing her child prevent her from being further abused?
As a formerly battered woman, I for one am insulted that you have not taken the time to get to know more about the dynamics of abuse to say nothing of the fact that you encourage people in a crisis to kill their own children.
Where did you ask for stats from me?
How many times have we seen this?
Someone like Tee shoved a woman into the clinic and battered an elderly man with an umbrella as the old gent tried to offer her a pamphlet and a word of encouragement. Tee probably shouted some obscenities, too.
That’s how it usually happens.
They always blame the pro-lifer for being there.
“I had to use my umbrella as a makeshift wall to stop an elderly man from grabbing the young lady I was with to try to pull her away from the door” – only in bizarro world does that become “shoved a woman into the clinic and battered an elderly man with an umbrella as the old gent tried to offer her a pamphlet”
Anyone can get annoyed by protesters blocking their way, getting in their face and trying to force propaganda on them as they are conducting their legitimate personal business. What would you do if some satanists blocked you from entering your church?
“What would you do if some satanists blocked you from entering your church?”
Walk past them and if they blocked me or touched me, I’d call the police. Of course, I’d pray for them as well.
I didn’t say the elderly man tried to hand her a pamphlet, because he didn’t have any. He tried to physically grab the young lady I was with and I used my umbrella as a makeshift wall to prevent him from touching her. I didn’t beat him with it but I told him to back off. I wasn’t the sperm contributor in this case either. I am a female who accompanied a female friend through the process. I was asked to join because she knew of all her friends I’d be the most supportive.
I used to have sympathy and empathy for the feelings of the pro-life crowd until I saw with my own eyes how disrespectful they are to actual people. I think there is something wrong when your priority is a pregnancy over a person. If you can’t admit that some protesters go too far then we can’t even have a serious conversation.
Praxedes-weren’t you the one acting like the majority of women are coerced into abortion? I wonder where you get your numbers from or if you pulled them out from where the sun doesn’t shine. I think an abused woman is making a more responsible choice to abort than to bring an infant into an abusive situation but that’s just me. I would be more concerned for the abused woman coerced into pregnancy. But you don’t seem to care about them…
As for your question as to whether or not my life has been threatened why yes in fact it has. It didn’t sit well with me and I attacked the person threatening it. Suffice it to say they never threatened me again but walked away and left me alone.
Tee, if you look around this blog you’ll see plenty of comments from pro-lifers disagreeing with the tactics of other pro-lifers. We’re not monolithic. Grabbing someone is going too far and is against the law.
“when your priority is a pregnancy over a person”
Every pregnant woman represents TWO people. One born, one unborn. That “pregnancy” you mention is actually another person. Another unique human being that is precious and deserves the right to live. We can and do love them both. Most studies I’ve seen show that a majority of women abort because they feel they have no choice. That is not empowerment, that’s desperation. Most pro-lifers present at abortion clinics are there to offer women information about another choice.
Buffer zones lead to bullhorns and shouting. Not my personal favorite way to approach strangers, but the information is too important to be left unsaid. Women DO have a choice. There are people that are willing to support a woman in her choice to give birth and either parent or pursue adoption. There are people, total strangers at first, that are willing to walk that path with a woman. Not just until birth. There are group homes in my area for pregnant women in crisis. One allows the women to stay for 5 years, providing life skills, career, and parenting classes. Another allows the women to stay for 2 years, providing similar classes. For a woman that is aborting because she’s desperate and sees no other choice, homes like these provide a safe haven. And no abortion clinic “counselor” is going to tell a pregnant client about them.
Also, Tee, if you scroll up through the comments you can see that it was Vicki quoting coercion stats, not Praxedes.
“I think an abused woman is making a more responsible choice to abort than to bring an infant into an abusive situation but that’s just me.”
What if a situation becomes abusive after the baby is born?
Point being that nobody is helping out in citing where that silly statistic comes from. I for one would never stay in an abusive relationship, in fact I’ve always warned men I was involved with that if they took it there I’d leave them. I won’t even stay friends with someone who stays in an abusive relationship because I feel like I’m enabling that behavior. Women are strong and able to speak their minds if they want to and choose to. I was raised by a mother and father who taught me that I am equal to men and that they can never have control over me. Nobody would ever coerce me into pregnancy or abortion. It is my body so it is MY choice.
So these idiot women who allow men to control them shouldn’t be the reason other women are treated like they can’t make up their own minds concerning their reproductive freedom. I blame the woman for allowing a man that control over her instead of putting a stop to it.
Of course none of the nonsense being brought up has anything to do with the fact that pro-life protesters are downright abusive towards women walking into an abortion clinic. Their abuse should be distanced when they can’t control themselves. As I stated, I USED to have sympathy for people who were strongly pro-life. I no longer do after seeing the disgraceful way they choose to handle themselves with women who disagree with their stance. I value my freedoms and a buffer zone doesn’t hinder your speech, it hinders your ability to abuse…and there is nothing wrong with limiting that behavior.
Whether or not you like it, abortion is a legal medical procedure that a woman SHOULD be able to access without abuse from anyone, most of all strangers.
Wow. Can’t say I’ve ever seen a woman boast so openly about her lack of compassion for others, but there ya have it folks.
#WarOnWomen
#VictimBlaming
It’s not a war on women that I don’t want to be a part of abuse on women. I don’t want to hear about it, see it, or be involved in it. If I advise a friend to leave an abusive man and she doesn’t, I stop talking to her because obviously she is CHOOSING to stay in a bad situation and nothing I can do will force her out of it. I’m happy to reconnect with her after she rids herself the filth out of her life. I’d even offer her a place to stay if she needed to leave, but I will not condone staying in an abusive relationship.
To know you will be abused and to stay anyways signals that you are now excusing that abuse. I did end a relationship with a friend who allowed her boyfriend to smack her around because I couldn’t stand it. I told her to call me when she got rid of him because I couldn’t stand it. I think that’s the kindest thing I could do in that situation if she isn’t going to listen to good advice and LEAVE.
What about the fact that abortion clinics make money off of abortion not off of adoption or parenting? Does that tend to make the counseling more than a little biased? What about the multiple women that I have spoken to who were told that their fetuses were just blobs of cells by clinic staff and had their cellphones taken away so that they couldn’t contact the outside world while they were in the clinic?
BTW, would you recommend infanticide as a solution to child abuse? After all, according to bioethicists Peter Singer, Micheal Tooley, and company, infants aren’t persons yet, because they aren’t aware of their own existence, and therefore infanticide is a moral decision that should be legal.
Tee, You talk a good talk. As I said, you don’t understand the dynamics of abuse and you just admitted you realize some women stay after being abused. Why in the world do you think an abused woman is going to be honest during one conversation with some counselor they don’t even have a relationship with at the abortion clinic?
After all, maybe her best friend just left her because she wasn’t strong enough to leave and she feels like no one really cares. Why should she open up to anyone? Abuse doesn’t start out overnight but escalates over time and I can guarantee that your friend was treated poorly before she was ever physically smacked around — in addition to him, maybe by someone other(s) than him.
You won’t talk with a friend who stays with her abuser but I’d bet my bottom dollar that if she’d become pregnant and called you up to take her to the kill mill, you would.
I didn’t have to kill my children to be equal to my abuser.
You didn’t answer my question though: What if the situation becomes abusive after the baby is born?
” I think there is something wrong when your priority is a pregnancy over a person.”
Our priority is recognizing BOTH persons involved in a pregnancy.
“I think an abused woman is making a more responsible choice to abort than to bring an infant into an abusive situation but that’s just me.”
You might want to go back and get your talking points straight. That sounds pretty pro-abortion (advocating for abortion in a given situation) and we know that NO ONE who supports abortion is actually in favor of abortion ever. They just don’t want to tell anyone else not to do the thing that they are personally never in favor of. Study up.
“You won’t talk with a friend who stays with her abuser but I’d bet my bottom dollar that if she’d become pregnant and called you up to take her to the kill mill, you would.”
Bingo.
Summary of Tee’s argument with me:
Tee believes my children should have been killed because their bio-dad abused me.
Buffer zones do zip to help abused women. Abortion does less.
We had 300 people praying at the local abortion mill here in Springfield, MA. where the 35′ buffer zones were put in place several years ago. Not one incident of unrest reported. The media which is pro death and liberal is always portraying the counselors and people praying as lunatics. Come and see for your self and see both sides of the issue.
9 – 0.