Pro-choicers only ones seeking to silence male voices on abortion
by Kelli
I think there absolutely is a role for men in the abortion debate, and that that role is in supporting women’s freedom to choose….
Those who are anti-abortion don’t see this conversation in terms of bodily autonomy but rather in terms of human lives being lost. They would probably argue that saying men shouldn’t have a say in abortion would be like saying that non-Germans shouldn’t have a say in the Holocaust. (I realize that I just violated Godwin’s Law, but anti-abortion groups constantly compare abortion to the Holocaust, even comparing “body counts,” so this argument is actually one they would make.) As a result, no amount of discussion is going to convince anti-abortion individuals that men weighing in on the conversation is any less valid than women doing so.
This means that the conversation over the place of men’s voices in discussions of abortion takes place solely on the pro-choice side.
~ Pro-choicer Libby Anne, answering an email from a reader who asks what a man’s role should be in the abortion debate, Patheos.com, May 20
[Photo via funylool.com]
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
You can’t violate a law that some guy made up and named after himself and which is also simply an internet meme.
Sometimes, in the case of human atrocity, Holocaust comparisons are valid.
I love how she just comes right out and says, “Yes, of course you have a voice! And that voice should only be used to agree with us!”
Good for her for admitting that the “no uterus – zip it!” line is valid only if you beg the question and assume you’re right.
They would probably argue that saying men shouldn’t have a say in abortion would be like saying that non-Germans shouldn’t have a say in the Holocaust.
It’s probably more like saying that people who aren’t cops shouldn’t have a say in the debate over police brutality (since they’re generally not required to confront a 300-pound thug as part of their job). Interestingly enough, Libby Anne doesn’t take this stance.
Bodily autonomy: some bodies are more equal than others (as Orwell once noted).
a reader who asks what a man’s role should be in the abortion debate.
We all have our opinions, in general, regardless of sex.
When it comes to the affairs of a couple, the man has his input, as does the woman, and I think it’s certainly best for people to communicate and get things straight between them.
Bodily autonomy: some bodies are more equal than others (as Orwell once noted). – you consider the fetus more equal and pro-choicers consider women more equal.
All these pro-choice to kill people wouldn’t think twice about forcing the man to choose death for his baby.
All these pro-choice people wouldn’t think twice about forcing the man to choose death for his baby. – nah, it’s anti-choicers who have an agenda of forcing people to do stuff.
I read that comment last by Reality, and thought it was really clever and funny…. then I noticed that it was Reality who posted it, and that he was being serious.
It’s even funnier now.
Not as funny as your David Bartonesque versions of history Del.
Except maybe for your crystal ball reading of the future.
As to Libby Anne’s posted thoughts: I am impressed.
Usually, the pro-bort writers write with spittle-flecked histrionics (like Amanda Marcotte).
Libby Anne wrote with insight about the core principles and motivations of both sides. Bodily autonomy (which focuses entirely on the mother) v. human dignity (which recognizes the existence and rights of the child and her father; the siblings & grandparents & community of loved ones; as well as the desires of the mother).
Libby Anne offers a valuable insight that “only pro-borts bother to ask themselves what sort of voice men are entitled to.” Pro-choice means shutting down so many voices: The children, the fathers, the extended family, the community of pro-lifers who offer help and assistance, the neighbors who do not want the sleaze of an abortion clinic, the parents concerned about how sex-ed undermines the formation of their children, the conscience of the nation as the death-toll climbs every year.
I suspect that Libby Anne is just as disgusted with the “bro-choice” pigs as we are. Men who support abortion just so they can negotiate their own “Get Out of Jail Free Card” are worse than men who want to protect the children by helping mothers in crisis.
Being a more active pro-lifer than most I can say that I have never been told I have no opinion of consequence in the matter unless it was coming from the pro-abortion position.
Libby Anne is very close to seeing the illogic of the pro-choice philosophy.
Based in the “bodily autonomy” argument, men only have a voice as long as they support a woman’s generic right to choose. Men cannot oppose choice, nor can a man urge a particular woman to choose life or death for her child. According to the dogma of “bodily autonomy,” he may not speak outside of his assigned space… because it is not his body.
The problem Libby Anne admits is the real existence of millions of pro-life women, who insist that there are more concerns than just a woman’s “autonomy.” A great number of these pro-life women are post-abortive, so they have compelling testimonies to their views of human rights. This is a direct challenge to Libby Anne’s philosophy, from those whom she must respect (according to her own dogma).
We have seen the pro-borts say absurd things — such as shouting that the pro-life women are “anti-woman.” Libby Anne is both smarter and more intellectually honest than those.
Del: Based in the “bodily autonomy” argument, men only have a voice as long as they support a woman’s generic right to choose. Men cannot oppose choice, nor can a man urge a particular woman to choose life or death for her child. According to the dogma of “bodily autonomy,” he may not speak outside of his assigned space… because it is not his body.
No, men have a voice all along. Men can oppose choice, men can urge women to do what the men want, and men can speak just about anywhere.
That does not mean the man can force the woman to act against what she wants – as you mention, it’s not his body, it’s hers.