Quote of the Day 9-20-10
There’s nothing like bringing up abortion to ruffle political feathers.
But with Republican Senate candidate Christine O’Donnell out treating it like cancer (she told a room full of fans at a Jewish Community Center in Delaware that not one person in the room hadn’t been affected by abortion), it’s time to lay out some ground rules.
Think there are too many abortions? Let’s talk about ways to cut the numbers. Not witchcraft, just a little proof that pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion:
1. Masturbation:… [T]here’s not one scientific case of a woman getting pregnant from jilling off. But if O’Donnell has her way, kids of America will be convinced its evil. Just what we need: more horny teenagers.
2. Sex Education: Abstinence-only education isn’t working. Study after study has proven it. So cut it. Give kids the knowledge they need to prevent unwanted pregnancies… and you’ll have fewer abortions.
3. Stop Slut Shaming Parents Who Give Up Their Kids to Adoption: Adoption is supposed to be the alternative to abortion, so why are biological parents treated like they’re low-life morons who deserve everything that’s coming to them when they hand over their baby?
4. Condoms in Schools. Teenagers make up an estimated 17% of the abortions in the US. Stop making it a national case when schools start giving kids access to birth control, and maybe that number would go down?
5. National Health Care: A woman who is on top of her health is a woman who is taking precautions. And doctors use a regular check-up as a chance to chat their patients up about everything going on in their lives, sex lives included. Poor women do not have easy access to the following: IUDs, Depo Provera, Nuva Ring, or the birth control pill. And they don’t have a health care practitioner suggesting they use them.
~Jeanne Sager, as quoted by The Stir, September 20
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Where to start with stupidity this ridiculous:
1. The two issues are totally unrelated. There’s not one shred of evidence that kids use masturbation as a sex substitute, which that argument assumes.
2. Just wrong. Time to actually read the studies.
3. This is so far removed from reality that it’s hard to take it seriously. Birth Mothers are up on pedestals throughout the entire adoption process and for a time after. Every law is weighted towards their parental rights (as it should be). It’s adoptive parents who are treated like irrelevant financial wishing wells under the law and by social workers.
4. Kids are going to drink and do drugs too. Doesn’t mean the school should be ferrying them around to parties to prevent drunk driving. Last time I checked, we don’t make it easier to engage in behavior we’re trying to discourage.
5. Ah, the answer to everything. Birth Control – provided on the tax payer dollar. And when it fails, we have another answer….but it’s not like we’re “pro” that “back-up plan that must not be named”. We want to reduce them, but if we can’t, the taxpayers should definitely pay for them.
So, pro lifers are not interested in these ideas to reduce abortions. Other than a government ban, what ideas do you have?
Ashley,
You say that “[o]pposing masturbation is inherently misogynistic.” How is this possible? Masturbation is something that men do at least as much as women. Misogyny refers to “hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.” For the life of me, I can’t see how opposing an activity that both men and women do is misogynistic.
Birth control has not reduced abortion and it also messes with a woman’s NATURAL cycle. How about encouraging waiting because there are REAL reasons to wait. There are consequences to premartial sex that can not be fixed with a condom or a pill.
Begin rant.
I think we should give the teens condoms AND a sex room starting around 6th grade so when they get the urge, they can request to pick out a partner (or not) and take a break from their studies. Because everyone knows that teens can’t and won’t control their sexual urges.
End rant.
Praxedes, hilarious! Let’s put some drugs and alcohol in there too cuz you know they’re all doing that too.
Also, did you know that excessive masterbation by females using certain objects ruins their kegel muscle tone? Oh yes. You know what that means? Not being able to put nature’s call on hold, at some pretty inopportune moments, which will continue until the causal activity is curtailed. But it’s ok, let’s pretend it’s all just for fun.
And masturbation is not always just a simple act; some people become pathological about it. Ask someone who works in a psych ward or ask a professional. Drinking one glass of wine may not be harmful to one person but sometimes people develop a disease and it becomes their undoing. Many behaviors are like that. I’m not saying masturbation should be shame-ified, but it also shouldn’t be overly encouraged either. Many men during the 80’s, 90’s, and today have turned to self pleasure and do not get out and meet or interact with real women. It’s true, I can name several off the top of my head: single middle aged or aging men who have now become incapable of initiating and maintaining a relationship. I bet some of you know men like this too.
Ninek,
“…but it also shouldn’t be overly encouraged either.”
Overly encouraged? Or encouraged period?
Hal,
The problem with nearly all of these ideas is that they have faulty assumptions underlying them. Underlying every idea except #3 is this assumption that sex is completely inevitable. In other words, people (especially teenagers) are going to have sex, and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it except to give them contraceptive devices so they don’t have unplanned pregnancies.
This assumption is false. If human nature is such that people need to have sex frequently, just how did teenagers throughout most of history, when highly reliable contraceptives just did not exist, manage to avoid getting pregnant? If there were something in their nature that demanded they have sex, the population would have absolutely exploded from all the resulting pregnancies. I suppose that in theory all of them could have been having sex and getting illegal abortions, but I doubt it. More likely, most were abstinent.
I could probably go on for the rest of my life about this, so I’ll just wrap up by saying that I think sex’s primary function is for reproduction. It is extremely generous of God that He also made the act pleasurable for humans. I think that there is something odd with having sex entirely for pleasure and then trying desperately to prevent getting pregnant by it.
Ashley,
All of your comments have been deleted. You know why. Your Christian bashing rant is over.
The details of all kinds of sexual this and that is completely inappropriate as well.
Please focus and give your opinion without resorting to Christian bashing or sexually explicit comments otherwise you will be deleted and eventually banned from this site.
Ashley:
Wow you’ve got a lot of stereotypes running through your mind, don’t you? Where do you get these perceptions of Christianity from?! And please: stop mixing Islam and Christianity together as though they were interchangeable. Keep them separate. Otherwise, you’re only obfuscating things.
There is just ONE simple reason why Christians discourage isolated masturbation and that’s because much of the time, masturbation involves fantasy and/or pornography, and the exclusion of one’s spouse. Jesus said in Matthew 5:28, “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” That there is the reason why Christians discourage masturbation. It’s as simple as that. Nothing to do with misogyny, submission, etc.
Can a man or woman masturbate without lusting after someone else? Yes. But one, how often do you think people masturbate without some kind of visual stimulation? (particularly men), and two, if married, why not pleasure one another? If masturbating is done in secret within a marriage, lust is most likely the primary factor. If lovemaking has ceased due to marital trouble, then issues should be dealt with in counseling or what-have-you. If masturbation is used instead of dealing with problems in a marriage, the relationship will only disintegrate further.
Concerning Christine O’Donnell, the point has already been made in the comments here that people don’t generally masturbate in exchange for sex. They are doing both. In fact, masturbation can and does lead to sex addictions, often involving pornography and even prostitution.
Ashley
September 20th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
I don’t think a very brief and vague description of anatomical reality counts as “explicit.” Unless you think the idea of a woman having an orgasm is inherently disgusting and appalling, which I think is the case with most religious people.
By “most” religious people, are you lumping ALL religions together or are you referring specifically to Christianity…? And by “most” people, are you referring to one or two people that you know personally and then assuming all folk have the same views?! By “most” people are you referring to obscure and/or isolated cults that you’ve heard of and then talking as though all of Christianity is the same as such factions? Are you referring to Mormons? (Who, by the way, are not the same as Christians) … what? I’m sure you’d be quick to defend Muslims by insisting that extremists and factions do not represent the whole of Islam, so why do you keep speaking as though cult minorities that call themselves “Christians” are representing the whole of Christianity? Is this a double-standard that you have?
Ashley says:
Unless you think the idea of a woman having an orgasm is inherently disgusting and appalling, which I think is the case with most religious people.
Wrong as usual.
It is a plain anatomical fact that having a guy’s penis in your vagina will not cause an orgasm.
While you could have worded that better I know a lot of women that would disagree with you. Maybe you are doing something wrong.
And besides that, the Catholic teaching is that almost anything is acceptable as long as it is culminated in intercourse between husband and wife.
Bobby, my answer is: this is why teens need adults who care about them to give the good, healthy advice. Adults who do not care include: adults who are predators. Adults who DO care will give them guidance that is not based on their own political or sexual agenda.
What is ‘overly encouraged’? Easy: using federal, state, county, or city money to print brochures saying how wonderful it is and outlining techniques is overly encouraging it. The libertines are often sticking their hands into community money to forward their agendas. Forget wisdom, it’s all about the agenda. Using money to encourage kids to masturbate is overly encouraging them. It’s very simple.
Self control is underrated in our culture. Planned Parenthood just encourages them to be victims of sexual predators. Predators often use pornography and masturbation to soften kids up, to groom them for abuse. Michael Jackson allegedly did that.
You can’t run a society with shouts, slogans, and bumper stickers. Kids need real guidance from people who don’t seek to use them.
Hal, I would love to reduce abortions and would welcome real efforts to do so. But you’ll note that they aren’t interested in reducing abortions unless it can push through more of the liberal platform that has at least as much chance of increasing abortions as it does of decreasing them (will they rethink universal healthcare if the # of abortions go up? I doubt it). Which is the point – this woman and those who put forward ideas like it, don’t care if the number of abortions go down and they don’t care that 3 of the 5 ideas listed up there reference birth control methods that are abortifacient (we’re just supposed to ignore that one, I suppose). I’m not opposed to accurate biological sex education. I’m not opposed (from a pro-life standpoint) to non-abortifacient birth control. I would love to see support for centers that help women through crisis pregnancies and help them keep the baby. But forgive me if I find it hard to take seriously a woman who thinks masturbation is going to reduce abortions and that mothers choosing adoption are slut shamed. Those are flimsy strawmen (which Ashley seems to be happy to forge into battle against) even for a pro-choicer.
Ashley,
May I recommend “Love and Responsibility” by Pope John Paul II (back before he was pope). In chapter 4 of the book, he talks all about teh beauty of the mutual orgasm. That is coming from the pope.
I mean, I agree ninek. I guess my worry is that you would approve of ANY encouragement to be impure with one’s self.
Here Ashley – your people disagree w/ you re female orgasms:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/teen-talk/sex-masturbation/sexual-satisfaction/some-facts-female-orgasm-25404.htm
Uh, I agree that teens need to be taught about sex, but do they really need more info about masturbation?
Poor women do not have easy access to the following: IUDs, Depo Provera, Nuva Ring, or the birth control pill. And they don’t have a health care practitioner suggesting they use them.
I don’t know where this author lives, but in most cities of any size there are clinics that dispense contraceptives free or on a sliding scale. In Philadelphia there are city-run clinics that many lower-income people use as primary care providers and that offer contraceptives as part of their services.
Bobby, it’s a tricky issue. You don’t want to make a kid feel bad and ashamed but you don’t want to push him or her into behavior either. I genuinely feel bad for my friends who have been single for decades. I don’t think all the porn and masturbation has improved our society. I think it has destroyed the creative drive and relationship skills of countless people. I remember telling people in the 80’s to loosen up and stop judging something so harmless. But it’s 2010 now, and I can name two old family friends with enormous porn collections who haven’t had a real girlfriend in decades. They are both past the age of retirement and still alone. Masturbation doesn’t hurt in the instant, but over decades, it leads to a lot of loneliness. When you have a crush on someone real that you know, you want to get to know more about them. The pornographic ‘actor’ or ‘actress’ is just an object, even worse than a straw man. At least Ashley cares about her straw men. Who cares about the 40 year old washed up porn actress with no job skills, hepatitis, and aids? Some people will simply tell you how empowered she must be. Tell that to her self esteem and her checking account.
Back to the original post, who exactly is “shaming” parents who give their baby for adoption? Where is this happening exactly? Because from every couple I know who has adopted a baby, the birth parents are regarded as either heroes for giving the gift of life and giving their child a better home than they could provide (selfless) or they are acknowledged with gratitude for making a good decision.
As far as I’m concerned, adoption isn’t encouraged nearly enough. Every mother seeking an abortion should be strongly urged to choose adoption instead. Adoption is one of the greatest antidotes to abortion and every “pro-choice” person with any integrity at all should prefer adoption to abortion.
I shall repeat myself.
Ashley,
All of your comments have been deleted. You know why. Your Christian bashing is over.
The details of all kinds of sexual this and that is completely inappropriate as well.
Please focus and give your opinion without resorting to Christian bashing or sexually explicit comments otherwise you will be deleted and eventually banned from this site.
Ashley, I’m reposting this because you haven’t responded….
Ashley
September 20th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
I don’t think a very brief and vague description of anatomical reality counts as “explicit.” Unless you think the idea of a woman having an orgasm is inherently disgusting and appalling, which I think is the case with most religious people.
By “most” religious people, are you lumping ALL religions together or are you referring specifically to Christianity…? And by “most” people, are you referring to one or two people that you know personally and then assuming all folk have the same views?! By “most” people are you referring to obscure and/or isolated cults that you’ve heard of and then talking as though all of Christianity is the same as such factions? Are you referring to Mormons? (Who, by the way, are not the same as Christians) … what? I’m sure you’d be quick to defend Muslims by insisting that extremists and factions do not represent the whole of Islam, so why do you keep speaking as though cult minorities that call themselves “Christians” are representing the whole of Christianity? Is this a double-standard that you have?
Author: Ashley
Christians want women to be passive sexual tools for men.
Um, what Christians are these? This is certainly news to me. :P
Ashley, I’ve noticed this in other threads too – you seem to have an axe to grind with Christianity but for some reason all your arguments are based on strawman, stereotypes and minorities. Do you have any real/genuine experience with Christianity or is it all hearsay? Have you ever been abused by someone who called themself a Christian? Where is this hatred coming from?
Author: Reality
Faking it for your husband because your Church says you should doesn’t make it real.
Um, what church are you referring to, Reality? Are we talking Catholic or Protestant or some obscure cult? Sounds like the same erroneous hype Ashley’s been ranting about. Can’t help but just sit back and shake my head as I watch you guys beat that strawman to smithereens. It’s rather strange. Where do you people get these ideas from anyway? The Bible certainly says nothing about women needing to fake orgasms to please their husbands. lol
LOL Bekah …I couldn’t agree with you more!
“You can’t run a society with shouts, slogans, and bumper stickers. Kids need real guidance from people who don’t seek to use them.”
Absolutely Ninek.
Ashley, Another book that addresses the issue of masturbation is The Good News about Sex and Marriage by Christopher West.
If you ever marry your bf and down the line (maybe after a child or two) he will only masturbate and no longer make love with you, what would you do?
Bekah, I think it was Ashley who said what you quoted about “faking it.”
Ashley, I’ve read your past comments on this thread, and I just have to say: you are COMPLETELY misinformed. COMPLETELY. About everything you’ve said, and that includes your information about female orgasms and Christian marital relations. You couldn’t BE more wrong, but I don’t expect you to believe that, since you think abstaining from sex until marriage means “Christians don’t like sex or orgasms.” Where things can start to go haywire in a relationship is when one partner thinks the other partner isn’t “enough” and things like pornography and artificial things like sex toys come into the picture. And typically, it’s those who are most insecure in their sex lives that feel the need to broadcast it and discuss it all the time.
I know, I know… it’s just unbelievable to think that two people can love God, be happily married with a great sex life, BOTH partners completely fulfilled, welcoming children into the family, and not needing to talk about sex all the time because they’re not obsessed with it – it’s just a natural part of their lives and marriage that they enjoy, along with a close friendship with their spouse. But it really does happen.
To be honest, my married religious friends (both Christian and Jewish) have more sex than my single non-religious friends. This is something I noticed within the last year or so. While I criticize the Church for putting a sexual status on women saints (“virgin” or “married woman,”), my priest friend encourages married people to create a great deal of intimacy in their marriages, and, frankly, all of my religious friends think sex is, well, awesome.
Hi MaryLee.
At least in the Catholic tradition, when we talk about the “Blessed Virgin Mary”, it is not meant to be a demeaning of sex; in other words, we aren’t saying “virginity good, sex bad,” Rather, the conjugal act is SO good and SO beautiful and SO holy, how much MORE of a sacrifice and on offering to God it is to give up something that is SO GOOD for the sake of God? So rather than demoting the sexual act to a secondary place, it uplifts it to its true and proper place as a holy act since to give up something so good is such a difficult sacrifice. We also note male virgins, such a Thomas Aquinas and other saints. And I know you weren’t at all saying this MaryLee, but just to clarify for everyone reading that in teh Catholic Church virginity (or abstinence) is looked upon so highly because it is such an enormous sacrifice to give up that which is so good for teh sake of something even greater (God).
I was raised Catholic. Who knows, someday I might come back; I’m not completely godless. But I do have a problem with, say, the calendar listing feast days and saying “Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church” and then “St. Teresa of Avila, Virgin and Doctor of the Church.” I’ve got a few Catholic friends who are trying to get me back into practicing….But, Bobby, I really appreciate your message, a lot. It made me think.
And can someone please explain to Miz Sager that an IUD is a ‘personal abortion device’? Does she not know how they work? How can you use abortion to cut down on abortion? That’s like the March of Dimes saying that abortion is an acceptable way to reduce birth defects. Oh, wait,*smacks forehead* they do think that!
And I join the other commenters in asking: who is making pregnant moms who are making adoption arrangements feel like sluts? Who? If I’m not doing it, and you’re not doing it, and no one is doing that, who the hey is Sager talking about? Or do straw men now have blogs and chat shows??
“But I do have a problem with, say, the calendar listing feast days and saying “Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church” and then “St. Teresa of Avila, Virgin and Doctor of the Church.””
I think that’s a fair question, MaryLee. And I’m not actually sure what a good way of answering it is! Some half-baked ideas are that sainthood trumps anything else, so that the most important aspect in the titles of the names is “Saint.” So I think everything else is secondary to their sainthood. I mentioned Aquinas, and there are stories about other men like St Francis of Assisi who jumped into thorn bushes to avoid temptation and I think there are stories about St Padre Pio and his chastity. But that doesn’t really address why he isn’t called, say, Padre Pio Saint and Virgin like Teresa of Avila is. So I am not particularly impressed with my answer. It’s definitely something I’ll look into, and maybe get back to you if I find something a little more substantive.
Oh, btw, Ashley, we’re now wise to your little identity crisis you seem to have had on this site. We know you’ve been posing as “Reality” for some time now, on several threads, for at least the past few weeks. No clue why on earth you’d see the need to do that, but it’s quite likely you’ll be banned.
I’m sure Amanda Marcotte would welcome your writing over at RH Reality Check, since you appear to be a fan and credit her with turning you pro-choice. Couldn’t have anything to do with your own abortion, though, surely not. And now I understand why you were so quick to dehumanize unborn children at an early stage – the same stage at which you chose to end the life of yours. Your being “underwhelmed” at an unborn human the “size of a dime” now makes all the sense in the world.
Also explains the crude personal attack I had to edit on another thread. Seemed out of character for “reality,” and now I know why. Also explains the harping on and on about women being pregnant by abusive men. I understand you feel you had to abort in order to get away from your abusive boyfriend. But assuming that all women are in your situation is just plain wrong.
So it appears you’ve at last morphed into two people before our very eyes. One is Ashley/Reality, who hates “anti-choicers” who “subjugate women” and “hate sex.” And the other is the Ashley who comes crying to us “anti-choicers” for support when she miscarries or is unable to conceive. We have tried to help you, Ashley, but bottom line, you have to get help. You seriously need it.
Ashley/Reality
You are banned.
“Oh, btw, Ashley, we’re now wise to your little identity crisis you seem to have had on this site. We know you’ve been posing as “Reality” for some time now, on several threads, for at least the past few weeks.”
What? I had no idea… this is heartbreaking…
Ashley and Reality are the same person?
Ashley, people here have been trying to help you and praying for you and wanting the best for you for months. Creating a false persona to insult us is…I don’t even know what to call it. Psychologically unhealthy comes to mind, and I’m not saying that as an insult.
Exactly who are you, anyway? I know you can’t answer here, but I’m really left wondering. With this level of deceit, I don’t know if I believe anything you’ve ever said. I wish I could.
Calling a saint a virgin is appropriate if that is a big part of the lady’s identity and in Teresa’s case it was. But we don’t always use descriptive words to name the saint, hence no one refers to Francis as ‘the smelly saint who wore the same robe for years on end’ but he was. The Blessed Mother is called virgin for the same reason: it was a very important part of her identity to the early church. Ruth is called “The Moabitess” because that describes her, but we don’t call her Ruth the One Who Sleeps on the Threshing Floor even though she did, Lol! I find the women of the bible and the saints fascinating. I wish I had time to read more about them.
Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future.
I believe reality was reality until recently, when Ashley adopted the moniker without our knowledge.
Yes, here. Ashley adopted the moniker on 9/08, on the Killing puppies vs. Killing babies thread:
Maybe it’s because you’ll never get the public to feel empathy for a mindless, unfeeling first-trimester fetus. If people actually believed early-term fetuses were worthy beings with feelings, there would already be a viral video showing an abortion and vigilantes threatening to “hunt down” the killer. But there are plenty of abortion videos, and very few vigilantes. A brainless fetus that looks like a piece of shrimp isn’t as moving as a living, breathing creature like these puppies.
Hi MaryLee
I just want to add a little bit to the statement Bobby made. Several of my friends (who grew up Catholic) have a problem with the way they think the Church views women. I think you need to look further than what you see on the surface. After all Jesus is the only human venerated more than Mary in the Catholic Faith and we are taught that devotion to her will bring us closer to her Son. The Church was making women Doctors of the Church in the Middle Ages, and women have been Spirtual Directors of Popes.
Also, there are many Saints that were married and mothers. I think the most recently cannonized was Saint Gianna Molla who was a doctor (working mom) and chose to continue her pregnancy even though she knew it could result in her death (which it did.) I believe that baby is now a doctor herself. Saint Gianna died in the early sixties.
So was the “reality” from a couple years back Ashley as well?
“But that doesn’t really address why he isn’t called, say, Padre Pio Saint and Virgin”
If I remember my Latin correctly, the noun for virgin is applied only to females, even though in modern English we would use the word “virgin” for a male. With Latin being the official language of the Church, I’m not sure there is a word equivalent to virgin to apply to a male. I always thought that was the reason that a female saint would be referred to as a Virgin but a male saint such as Aloysius or Padre Pio would be referred to as having “virginal purity.”
“just to clarify for everyone reading that in teh Catholic Church virginity (or abstinence) is looked upon so highly because it is such an enormous sacrifice to give up that which is so good for teh sake of something even greater (God).”
Beautifully stated, Bobby. Often noncatholics do not understand the Catholic view of the body as a temple of the Holy Spirit, and the call for chastity in all states of life, married and single alike.
So was the “reality” from a couple years back Ashley as well?
It doesn’t appear that way, no.
When folks say the Catholic church doesn’t value women enough, I like to remind them about the Bible. In no other religious scripture on the planet are more women named, not only as ‘wife’ or ‘daughter’, but properly named as in Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Leah, Dinah, Hannah, Ruth, Deborah, Judith, Esther, Mary the Blessed Mother, Mary wife of Cleopas, Mary mother of John-called-Mark, Priscilla, Salome (not the dancer, but the sister of the Blessed Mother), Mary called The Magdalene, Martha and her sister Mary, (I know it’s a lot of Mary’s, kind of like those 27 Jennifers), Anna, Rhoda… and those are only the ones I can rattle off without trying! I think that’s pretty impressive. The Church has a pretty good record of the important roles of women in history. So what if I can’t be a Pope; it doesn’t bother me at all.
Ashley/Reality had an abortion. She is struggling right now as her comments have shown.
On one hand she reaches out for help, on the other she blasts the “fundies” that have been here to offer that help.
Pray for her.
1. Masturbatin never made me less horny. It just temporarily relieved me of the personal responsibility to practice self control and mental discipline.
2. Sex Education as provided in the government schools did NOT dissuade me from engaging in sexual activitiy. It merely validated my desire to have sex early and often.
I might not have understood all physiological details of conception, but I knew full well that having sex with a girl always involved the prospect of pregnancy. Sex with a male was something I never considered, nor was sodomy with a female. There were ample contemporaries who proved the point. [Did you hear Hillary is getting married? I didn’t even know she was pregnant!]
3. I do not recall ‘adption’ being a shameful decision. I had friends who were adopted. I knew unmarried young ladies who chose to offer their baby for adoption and I do not know of any one who faulted them for their decision.
4. Condoms, CONDOMS, CONDOMS! I didn’t need no stinkin condoms.
I was latex intolerant.
Men don’t get pregnant. Prevention was the females responsibility.
Yeah, Right , Giving kids condoms will result in less sexually acitivity, not more.
And more sexual activity won’t result in more sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancies and elective abortions.
That’s like giving a kid a bottle opener and access to a six pack of beer and believing he won’t try opening a bottle or two and justifying this stupifying decision by believing the kid will be less likely to cut himself with a broken beer bottle.
Old folks are wont to say that ‘youth is wasted on the young’.
I suspect one reason is that old people say that is they have forgotten what being young is like.
5. What are the things a healthy woman is guarding against that an unhealthy woman is not?
“Poor woment do not have access to contraception, abortifacients, and abortion on demand.”
Perhaps ‘poor women’ in third world countries, but certainly NOT in the U. S. of A.
pp can work her whoring witchcraft and qualify almost any female for federally government funded contraception, abortifacients and elective abortion.
“And they [poor women] don’t have a health care practitioner suggesting they use them.”
Is pp acknowledging that she is not a ‘health care practitioner’?
Perhaps it is NOT mere hyperbole to suggest that pp IS a whoring witch.
[Apologies to ‘whores’ everywhere for associating you with pp. Witches, not so much. You are on your own.]
its off topic, but there were many early Christian martyrs that were virgins, MaryLee, and yes, they were women. if its mentioned they were virgins, its often due to refusing to marry a pagan or devoting themselves to their new Christian faith w/o compromise. Good role models for young christian women of today: Saint Lucy, Saint Cecelia, Saint Agnes are just a few of them.
Apparently I am in the minority here, but I don’t think there is anything wrong with masturbation as long as there is no lusting involved. And yes, that’s possible because I’ve done it for many years. I think denying a hormonally-supercharged teen any kind of physical release is wrong and dangerous – you can still practice mental purity while giving your body the release from sexual tension that it occasionally needs. I was a high-sex-drive teen and although I was sexually active at that time, I can say that I would have been a lot more so without masturbation.
“you can still practice mental purity while giving your body the release from sexual tension that it occasionally needs.”
I will agree to disagree.
Ken wrote:
That’s like giving a kid a bottle opener and access to a six pack of beer and believing he won’t try opening a bottle or two and justifying this stupifying decision by believing the kid will be less likely to cut himself with a broken beer bottle.
I seriously need to steal that one; that’s brilliant! :)
Thank you, everyone, for your input on the women in the Church thing I’ve been thinking about. (Bad sentence structure: I haven’t had my coffee yet)…..I feel very sad that Dorothy Day will not be canonized because she had an abortion; she was repentant and changed her world around, but she seems to not be “worthy” enough because of her past. St. Augustine (a gorgeous writer!) was rather promiscuous, and had a child out of wedlock, but his conversion is accepted. The church’s treatment of Dorothy Day makes me really sad. Anyway. Also, I loved Pope John Paul II. I don’t like Pope Benedict at all.
ANYWAY. I don’t understand why abstinence isn’t presented as just a logical option. It doesn’t have to be moral, it doesn’t have to be religious. We can teach them that there’s plenty of time for sex, but right now they have to worry about their SATs. You know? I feel like the right wingers are all self-righteous about abstinence, but I think the left wingers are unrealistic about abstinence as an “impossibility” as it were. Frankly, I’ve met more left wingers who balk at eating carbs, but wouldn’t think twice about abortion; something’s wrong here, but it isn’t something that can be undone. We can teach our children the proper time to do things. It isn’t unreasonable to let our children know that sex messes things up; it complicates things. Why would you want to worry about your final exams AND worry that you might be pregnant (or worry that your boyfriend hasn’t called, or whatever)….? Sex isn’t an uncontrollable urge, and just like everything, there is a time and a place.
MaryLee wrote:
I feel very sad that Dorothy Day will not be canonized because she had an abortion; she was repentant and changed her world around, but she seems to not be “worthy” enough because of her past.
Pardon me for being a Johnny-come-lately on this, but: where do you get the idea that her cause for canonization has been shut down? I’ve seen nothing of the sort in any official Church documents, and her cause (submitted by Cardinal O’Connor, of happy memory) is still formally open–and it was even renewed by Cardinal Egan. Some Catholic bloggers and/or talking heads may have offered their opinions, but her official cause is still very much alive; the Vatican hasn’t rejected it in the least.
St. Augustine (a gorgeous writer!) was rather promiscuous, and had a child out of wedlock, but his conversion is accepted.
Right… and I don’t see anywhere that any formal Church “rejection of Dorothy Day’s conversion” happened. In short: no need to panic or despair, on that point!
The church’s treatment of Dorothy Day makes me really sad.
Again: please don’t mistake the “gripes/snarks of random commentators” for Church pronouncements; the Church hasn’t rejected her cause.
Anyway. Also, I loved Pope John Paul II. I don’t like Pope Benedict at all.
Well… may I beg you to keep an open mind, and read/listen to HIM, and not to what the MSM (who hates him with a passion) says about him? A gentler, more humble and loving soul (than Pope Benedict XVI) doesn’t walk the earth, I think. And one other point to ponder: Pope John Paul II loved (now) Pope Benedict XVI as a dear friend and brother, and trusted him implicitly with virtually everything. Does that help, at all?
Re: your comments on abstinence: bravo! :)
I will miss Ashley Jekyll’s posts, but Ashley Hyde not as much. Ashley, I hope you will still check in and read Jill’s blog. Even though you told in comments a while that it was your aunt’s catholic experience that turned you against the church, Jesus doesn’t limit himself to church buildings or particular congregations. He’s looking for you like he’s searching for a lost kitten. He will not give up on you. Don’t judge Jesus himself just because you don’t like his followers. We have free will, we can be annoying. But Jesus is not moral and flawed like us. He can take on whatever burden you carry. Let him help you. Take care, Ashley, and we’ll see you around the interwebs.
Thank you, Paladin! That is very helpful.
I don’t understand why abstinence isn’t presented as just a logical option. It doesn’t have to be moral, it doesn’t have to be religious. We can teach them that there’s plenty of time for sex, but right now they have to worry about their SATs. You know?
Exactly. Sexual activity brings a lot of stress for teenagers, even if the activity is with a monogamous partner who loves them and wants to marry them.
I don’t have any big issue with masturbation either.
Teenagers do have wills and desires of their own, but it’s not like we can’t teach them, realistically, to hold off on things because it’s STUPID to be doing them. We teach our kids not to smoke, we teach them not to text and drive…..Why can’t we tell them, sex isn’t always fantastic and it’s not going to make your life easier? I think teenagers having sex is ridiculous. I didn’t have sex when I was a teenager. I was too busy studying and getting good grades. Now in my early twenties, yeah, I had a sort of slutty period, but I was an adult, had a job, and had received my master’s degree. I don’t think I would have coped well as a teenager; none of them do.
So what if I can’t be a Pope; it doesn’t bother me at all. Awesome comment, Ninek, and I second it whole-heartedly.
Okay…
Teens ARE capable of controling themselves. They just don’t always know how. Therefore chastity and abstainence education can offer (and many speakers do offer) ways of dealing with sexual tension. (a couple being prayer and regular exercise–because sexual tension is excess energy; so if you put the energy toward something positive, like physical exercise, then you can release that energy and “do the body good”–as they say in the old milk commercials).
Contrary to popular belief, I was once a teen and I did experience sexual tension–and it wasn’t easy. I remember I kept a journal and at one point I described it as “a fox being hunted” I felt like everytime I turned around there was sexual temptation.
Making sex more accessible through artificial birth control doesn’t make the problem of teen sex and pregnancy go away or even lessen and it doesn’t teach a teen how to deal with his or her hormones/desires/energy in a healthy way. It merely perpetuates the idea that instant gratitfication is the number one important goal.
Also, in adults it does us a disservice. As adults, we should know at least something about self-control. Some of us know more and exercise more self-control than others and some are more capable (based on practice or other reasons). But that doesn’t mean it’s impossible for an adult to practice self-control/chastity and abstainence.
The other thing is, a lot of people (including teens) don’t realize in women how prevelant the hormone oxytocin is and its purpose. Oxytocin is a hormone that is known to be released when a woman is breast-feeding her baby and it bonds the woman and baby in the mother-child relationship. But oxytocin is also released when a woman has sex (I believe during the time of an orgasm). The way it works when it comes to sexual intercourse is bonding the woman to whomever she has sex with. This means, even if she’s not CONSCIOUSLY aware of the bond, the bond still exists.
eek, I meant to say Jesus wasn’t morTal, not moral. What a big oops!
Once I was babysitting and the very young child was watching tv. Her mother had warned me that she had ‘discovered something new about herself’ and to just be aware. Sure enough, she absent-mindedly touched herself in my presence. What did I do? I jumped up and said, “Hey let’s put our shoes on and go outside to play!” She wasn’t lectured to or shamed or traumatized, and the fresh air and excercise was healthier than watching tv. Problem solved. I think this would work on teens as well. Preoccupied with sex? Can’t stop thinking about your crush? Then get out and rake some leaves or clean out the garage! Exercise and chores are what they need, not brochures and sex toys.
I agree with the idea that abstinence is simply a good idea and doesn’t have to be a religious/moral thing, though for me it is both (well, no longer for me personally as I am married, but before I was married, yes). I try to explain that to people, young people especially. There are lots of great reasons, outside of religion and outside of morality, that we can consider for abstaining. I’ve learned more since I was a teenager and my convictions have been strengthened by it, but even what I knew at the age of 14… I was talking to a girl in one of my classes about why it’s a good idea to wait to have sex/not have sex as a teenager or even outside of marriage (there are lot of good reasons to not have sex outside of marriage at all). I wasn’t trying to convince her of anything necessarily… just having a conversation. I was a bit surprised and humbled when she suddenly responded, “Wow, those are really great points! I have this guy that has been wanting me to have sex with him. I think I might call him and tell him, ‘no.'” For both of their sakes, I hope that’s exactly what she did.
I also agree that teenagers (as well as adults) are capable of self-control. We do them (and ourselves) a great disservice when we act like self-control is impossible/unrealistic (I’ve had many people tell me I’m unrealistic… nope! I just believe in the good old-fashioned values of self-control and personal responsibility). I think exercise and chores to use up extra energy and keep the mind busy are a great idea! :)
Ashely, if your read this… I’m sorry you are hurting and I hope you find the help and the healing that you need.