New poll/Old poll
The new poll question is up:
Were it discovered that John McCain or Sarah Palin launched their politicial careers in the home of a former abortion clinic bomber, would it be a major story in the mainstream media?
This, of course, provides a comparison to Barack Obama’s association with former domestic terrorist William Ayers.
My previous poll question asked who of the 4 presidential/vice-presidential candidates did you think is the best debater. You picked Obama…
Bear in mind Vizu tracks only the most recent 500 votes when looking for your own brightly colored flag (click to enlarge)…
As always, make comments to either this or last week’s poll here, not on the Vizu website.
Oct.18, 2008 12:00 pm |
Polls |
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
What’s up with this weeks poll? Why don’t you just ask, “If a candidate was found eating live puppies and sodomizing kittens would it effect your opinion of them?”
Cha dude, cha.
This connection with William Ayers had been over-hyped and misconstrued.
1. Obama was 8 when Ayers was conducting his Weatherman activities.
2. Ayers is now a professor at the University of Chicago, just as Obama was. Are you seriously implying that everyone who either works at or goes to the University of Chicago is a terrorist of has terrorist connections?
3. People change. Whatever happened to Christian forgiveness and compassion? I thought that your faith stressed that people could reform and be redeemed. If you believe that for your friends and your family, aren’t you being a bit hypocritical not to extend that same, basic Christian belief to others as well?
But Enigma Obama is a Muslim! That would explain the church…
I love the sign I saw, “Obama is a muslin.”
What bother you more, the fact that one of our presidential candidates is a fabric or that guy can vote?
*bothers
Well now I know it can happen…
Obviously the people underestimate or JOhn McCain by giving him only 6.5% of the vote. He was absolutely head on and dead right in every debate when he told the people, if you want to know the truth about what a person will do when they into office then do not look at what the candidates say, but look at what they have done. Very, very straight talk and very, very sound advice. Some people are panderers and will lie in order to get you to believe they are somebody other than who they really are. In light of this advice Obama’s past cannot just be ignored. And Enigma, there is a difference between ignoring somebody’s past and forgiving them for their past.
Truthseeker, do remember the last “unqualified” senator from Illinois?
Obviously it would. Obama launched his political career at a Ramada Inn, but the Ayers lie has been a major story anyway.
Good thing people are more worried about the economy than baseless Republican attacks.
Enigma – forgiveness is always given when asked for. It’s not something that is forced on someone who is unrepentant which seems to be the case with Mr. Ayers. Were he to indeed repent of his actions and inflamatory rhetoric and ask for forgiveness he would receive it. But such is not the case with him.
Obama was not 8 years old when Mr. Ayers said in 2001 that he wished he had done more.
I’m worried about the cows.
No matter how bad things get at least we aren’t Cambodia.
If you are hyped about Ayers then why not about the right-wing radio stations that play commentaries from actually convicted felon Chuck Colson, whose actions took down a president?
Were it discovered that John McCain or Sarah Palin launched their politicial careers in the home of a former abortion clinic bomber, would it be a major story in the mainstream media?
Anyone who says “no” is not being truthful. Their political careers never would have gotten off the ground. They would have been destroyed by the press.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
While the MSM suggests that “terrorist” William Ayers is a non-issue nationwide, I’d love to know what Oklahomans in particular think about Obama and Ayers’ association in light of the Timothy McVey bombing that occurred in Oklahoma.
Oh, and here is proof that Obama’s campaign was launched not in Bill Ayers’ living room, but in front of the Illinois statehouse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs9AWAE9W2g
Yo @ 2:36,
Who’s Chuck Colson?
Chuck Colson – Founder of Prison Fellowship, convicted felon in the Watergate Break-in (to get at the DNC HQ in the building) that led to the resignation of Richard Nixon. He’s good friends with G. Gordon Liddy, one of his fellow felons from the Watergate debacle.
I was going to add Ollie North to the list, but he was exhonerated with the help of the A.C.L.U.
YLT,
Bill Ayers and his equally terrorist wife Bernadine Dohrn played host and hostess in their home to Barack Obama’s 1995 political “coming out” where outgoing state senator Alice Palmer handpicked Obama to be her successor. Obama had known Ayers for at least 8 years prior when both were involved in the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools. The claim that their children attended the same school is pure fiction. The Obama children are in elementary school while the Ayers children are adults.
Sounds like Obama and the Ayers’ were more than just casual aquaintances.
Ayers and Dorhn were leaders of the Weathermen, a terrorist left wing group that led the “Days of Rage” in Chicago, a massive riot.
The Weathermen, including the charming Mrs.Ayers who was called the “most dangerous woman in America” by FBI director J.Edgar Hoover, were also accused of killing a police officer in a station bombing and planned massive carnage at the Fort Dix dance terror plot of 1970. The Weathermen also attempted to murder a judge and his family with firebombs, as well as involvement in other bombings.
Ayers was freed on technicalities and celebrated by wiping his feet on the American flag while saying, (paraphasing) Guilty as hell and free as a bird, what a great country.
Tell me YLT, what would be your reaction if John McCain visited the home of admitted abortion clinic bombers for ANY reason, much less to launch his political career?
Enigma,
So what if Obama was 8 y/o when Ayers committed his acts. No one is accusing Obama of involvement with their terrorist activities.
By the way, was he 8y/o after 9/11 when an ever unrepentent Ayers expressed his remorse that he and his terrorist gang didn’t do more?
Yes people change, Ayers did not. A man who brags he’s guilty as hell but free as a bird while wiping his feet on the American flag, after being released on a legal technicality, does not sound particularly remorseful or repentent to me.
Janet,
The only difference between Ayers and McVey is that McVey killed more people and he’s now fertilizing the soil. Ayers is a “respected” university professor.
Come on folks. What would your reaction be if McCain were to visit for ANY reason the home of an admitted non-repentent abortion clinic bomber who got off on a legal technicality?
well.. actually..if Mcain were to “visit” someone like this I would ask why and not judge just because he visited..Mcain is a good man.. and Obama from what I have watched and seen and read is also..(I am a Mcain fan by the way)
Personally I am appalled that the American Right Wing has made such a big deal out of this and since their facts have been so distorted, now people don’t care at all.. stupid.. The mudslinging just keeps going… ugh… I almsot want to vote independent..
Don,
I don’t know how old you are but I remember the era of the Weathermen very well, including the “Days of Rage”.
The attempted murder of a judge and his family, including young children, by firebombs is to me a very big deal. So is the bombing of a police station with the resultant murder of a police officer and the maiming of others. This isn’t some “right wing” exaggeration. Didn’t Senator Clinton also raise the issue of Bill Ayers during a primary debate? I would hardly call her “right wing”.
Clearly the answer to the question is “no”.
Mc Cain has appeared with and applauded clinic bombers, has praised domestic terrorist Gordon Liddy, and is supported by the Annenbergs, who also have supported Bill Ayers.
Palin has supported (and First Dude until 2002 was a member of)the Alaska Independent Party which advocates violence against and secession from the United States, and is a sworn enemy of the United States. The mainstream media has given little or no coverage of the connection of Palin with this violently anti-American group, including addressing their convention earlier this year.
So the answer is clear. The mainstream media has fully covered the silly Obama story and ignored McCain/Palin’s much more recent and more serious connections with terrorists.
Mary @ 4:00,
Janet,The only difference between Ayers and McVey is that McVey killed more people and he’s now fertilizing the soil. Ayers is a “respected” university professor.
Exactly, and there wasn’t `round the clock cable TV news back in Ayers’ day, so fewer people heard about it. Oh, and probably most importantly, it happened before most of them were born.
Ayers was freed on technicalities and celebrated by wiping his feet on the American flag while saying, (paraphasing) Guilty as hell and free as a bird, what a great country.
Unbelievable. I wonder how Obama would respond if he heard that today.
Who are the clinic bombers and when and where did he appear with them?
Liddy was involved in the Watergate scandal and was sentenced to 20 years for burglary, illegal wiretapping and conspiracy. His sentence was commuted by President Carter.
Liddy, unlike Ayers, has at least served time and I can’t find anything about him planting bombs.
The Annenbergs made millions of dollars available to American public schools in the mid-90s. Bill Ayers applied for $50 million. The grant was given. Did the Annenbergs personally administer these grants or do handlers? Did Ayers personally request the grant or was he part of a committee? How else have they “supported” Bill Ayers?
Also PPC, please visit the website of the Alaska Independent Party and view their Platform. The first article of the platform:
1. To effect full compliance with the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska.
You will find no advocacy of violence or secession. The “worst” I could find was that Alaskans want the vote and the four choices they were denied in 1958.
Also, some examples of the violence and anti-Americanism of this group. Did it ever include bombing the American capitol and pentagon as did Bill Ayers’ group?
“By their fruit you will know them” and “you are known by the company you keep”. You are not looking at the whole picture. You do not stay in a church that teaches “Black Liberation Theology” for 20 years with an elite Harvard Law degree while your pastor teaches the “Black Value System”, that white people are the oppressors who infected Black people with HIV/AIDS, that 9-11 when 3,000 innocent people died was “America’s chickens coming home to roost”, hang with the corrupt Democratic machine politicians like Emil Jones, Blagovich and pay-to-play businessmen like Tony Rezko and now become the “change the whole country can believe in”. If you substituted McCain’s name in the above statement and reversed the races I listed, McCain would NEVER have been a presidential candidate. As a state legislator in Illinois Obama did nothing of substance, he NEVER went after the corruption in his own party, hever worked to stop pay to play politics, never worked across the aisle until Emil Jones started stealing bills from other Democrats that they had been working on for years (about 18 months before Barack ran for US senator) to put Barack’s name on them, that is why Jones could say “I’m gonna make me a senator”. The state of Illinois is one of the biggest jokes in the nation for integrity, fiscal responsiblilty, ethics reform, and Obama who did nothing to straighten out the mess in his own state is now going to straighten out the entire United States? Give me a Break!!!
Mary John Mc Cain was part of a small minority of senators who voted against bills to protect women and medical personnel at abortion clinics in 1993 and 1994, and clearly favored the terrorists. He appeared with clinic bombers in the Pacific Northwest.
Gordon Liddy plotted the murders of the Watergate investigators, the Clintons and advocates the killing of ATF agents. He admires Hitler. Clearly a hero to you pro-lifers, and praised by John McCain in a recent appearance on Liddy’s radio show.
The Annenberg reference was merely to show the utter absurdity of the Obama “connection” to Ayers, since Mc Cain has a closer, and equally
insignficant “connection” to Ayers.
The founder of the AIP was killed in the course of purchase of explosives, shortly before going to the UN as a guest of Iran, to denounce the US.
AIP has always sought succession from the US, and anyone who wishes to research AIP will quickly discover how “sanitized” your account is.
PPC,
Please name the clinic bombers he appeared with and where and when he appeared with them.
His “advocacy” of killing ATF agents was in reference to Waco, in which 93 men, women, and children were incinerated. He said if your home is being raided like the Branch Davidian compound, aim for the heads of the agents. Certainly his statements were controversial, but were directed at the storm trooper like antics of the ATF, which were also very controversial and resulted in 93 unnecessary deaths through incineration. To this day I have no clue what those people were alleged to be guilty of. David Koresh, leader of the group at Waco, could have easily been picked up by the ATF on one of his daily treks into town.
What happened to these “plots”? Was Liddy caught? Were weapons and explosives confiscated?
Did he carry any of them out? Who did he kill and what buildings did he blow up? Was the guy just a big talker? Why on earth would Jimmy Carter even consider pardoning such a murderous fiend? Again, Ayers and his group did more than just talk. They actually did use explosives and did kill.
Liddy did admire Hitler as a child, children are very impressionable, but any quotes of him expressing admiration for Hitler in adulthood? Speaking of Hitler, Obama’s minister was a great admirer of racist, antisemitic(as was Hitler) Louis Farrakhan.
I wonder if Obama ever had an issue with that. But then he was totally clueless about his minister even though he spent 20 years in his pews.
The founder of the AIP. That’s one person. He died purchasing explosives. Did he blow himself up as did some of the Ayers’ associates in the weather underground? Exactly what did he plan to do with the explosives? Ayers’ friends were making bombs. Does the webpage of the AIP in anyway condone or advocate such actions? Please, some examples of terrorism by the AIP, like the bombing of the capitol or pentagon, or the attempted firebomb murder of a judge’s family.
PPC, name the clinic bombers.
To the question. Yes the MSM would be all over it, everyday. Unlike Bill Ayers/Obama, which the MSM are doing their best to cover for Obama.
Janet,
You should check out Chuck Colson. He has a radio show called Breakpoint.
Janet,
http://www.breakpoint.org
I read Colson’s book How Now Shall We Live? Very good.
Yo lo, 2:41p, wrote: “Oh, and here is proof that Obama’s campaign was launched not in Bill Ayers’ living room, but in front of the Illinois statehouse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs9AWAE9W2g“
Note I said “careers” not “campaigns.” The fact is Barack Obama launched his political career by way of a fundraiser in the home of domestic terrorist William Ayers.
And, ah, memories of Obama’s presidential campaign launch…. I was there… picketing.
Carla,
Thank you. I will check it out!
Sarah Palin will be on SNL in ten minutes…
Yes–huge story, of course. If for nothing else, it would be because every bloody thing is some sort of HUGE DEAL at this point. When this stupid election is over, I’ll be happy.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, for heaven’s sake!
Hey… my Lethbridge flag failed to make the cut again for the best debater poll. Eff. Though someone else in Alberta did vote… I must find out where they are…
Calgary? Such an important and compelling mystery…
How would you know where his career was launched? You’ve never met the man, nor spoken to him. He worked for the Law Review, I bet that had more to do with it than being in the same neighborhood as a crusty hippie. For the record,Obama’s formal kick-off to announce his run for state senate was at the Hyde Park Ramada Inn on Sept. 19, 1995. Or did you have a pow-wow with him and this Ayers fellow sometime before that?
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/ayers_alone_did_not_launch_oba.html
The full story on “the launch”. Seriously Jill, the omnipotent knowledge you claim to posses about Obama seems to be more rooted in your vitrol for the man and less on any an accumulation of truths.
YLT,
How would you know where his career was launched? Have you ever met or spoken to him? He worked for the Law Review? Great. That proves what?
Do you suppose there would be a video of him in the Ayers’ living room?
This was a behind the scenes meeting to prepare him to launch his political career. Candidates don’t suddently fall from the sky. There are plenty of these meetings that go on before a candidate finally announces he/she is running for office.
I think the big story on the poll is how much Palin beat McCain. Are you kidding me?
“YLT,
How would you know where his career was launched?”
And Mary, how would you know?
You weren’t there either. Reading up on internet gossip again I see.
hal,
YLT is MO in disguise. She KNOWS.
Hal,
Live with it. Your guy graced the living room of a couple of murdering terrorist bombers who got off on a technicality and remain unrepentent to this day.
Mary, my guy is a “decent man” Your guy says so.
“I have to tell you. Sen. Obama is a decent person and a person you don’t have to be scared of as president of the United States,” McCain told a supporter
Mary, my guy is a “decent man” Your guy says so.
“I have to tell you. Sen. Obama is a decent person and a person you don’t have to be scared of as president of the United States,” McCain told a supporter
Posted by: hal at October 20, 2008 9:47 AM
Hal,
McCain only said that to keep control of his rally and to prevent the people at his rally from getting out of hand in their admonition of
Obam-uh.
Ts,
Thank you. Which shows who is really the decent man.
Hal,
I recall that Biden at one time questioned Obama’s ability to be commander in chief and stated that the presidency is not a place for on the job training. What has since greatly enhanced Obama’s qualifications? Maybe you can tell me Hal.
Well how interesting. Biden has warned that if Obama is elected, we may very well be tested with an international crisis within 6 months. He’s asking supporters to hang in there.
Now why do you suppose the world’s tyrants would test Obama? Biden said nothing about McCain. Maybe they’re a little nervous about testing him.
But the young, inexperienced green guy, that’s a different story and even his VP candidate is concerned. Well, Biden did say during the primaries, in reference to Obama, that the presidency is not the place for on the job training.
So Obama’s VP thinks Obama being elected may very well tempt the world tyrants to mess with us?
Obviously they are not particularly fearful of Obama nor do they percieve him as someone who will stand up to them. I mean, how many times did Al-Qaeda hit us and Clinton do nothing?
They tested Bush once and haven’t again.
Kruschev tested John Kennedy who he saw as nothing more than a snot nosed kid. We came closer than we thought to incineration in the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Very reassuring.
Hal: “I have to tell you. Sen. Obama is a decent person and a person you don’t have to be scared of as president of the United States,” McCain told a supporter.
Right, because McCain is honest enough to say that. He’s always said what he thought, pretty well.
All this hand-wringing and moaning about Obama from Pro-Lifers…
Pro-Choicers are Biden their time, and the McCain campaign is Palin in comparison.
Doug, the contest is turning since Uhbama and Biden have been talking about the economy. When Biden said that people should be patriotic and pay more in taxes; and then Uhbama followed it up by telling Joe the Plumber “we need to spread the wealth”. People in America really don’t like government taking their money in order to distribute to others. We feel as though we earned the money so we should get to give it to the charity of our choice. Uhbama and Biden obviously don’t understand this. It will cost them the election.
Truthseeker – That you resort to petty namecalling – “Uhbama” and the such shows your the shallow level of discourse that you use to distract from your full comprehension of issues beyond mere talking points. Analysis requires thinking for yourself – not the repetition of school yard name-games and bullet points from conservative interest groups. When you speak such as you have, you debase your own dignity and that of your candidate and your cause. No one takes a fool seriously.
Doug, the contest is turning since Uhbama and Biden have been talking about the economy.
Heh – you think so?
…..
When Biden said that people should be patriotic and pay more in taxes; and then Uhbama followed it up by telling Joe the Plumber “we need to spread the wealth”. People in America really don’t like government taking their money in order to distribute to others.
First of all, pretty much everybody doesn’t want “widows and orphans” to starve, etc. – we all want some “redistribution of wealth.” Beyond that, people also know that the Repubican penchant for spending more and more of taxpayer money (whether or not the taxes are levied at the exact time) isn’t a good thing.
We feel as though we earned the money so we should get to give it to the charity of our choice. Uhbama and Biden obviously don’t understand this. It will cost them the election.
How much you wanna bet?
Truthseeker, also – we’ve gotten to a time when there are some great buys out there. Here’s one – APL on the NYSE – Atlas Pipeline Partners, yielding right about 17% now because it’s been panic-sold down so much.
“Blood is running in the street….”
Truthseeker – That you resort to petty namecalling – “Uhbama” and the such shows your the shallow level of discourse that you use to distract from your full comprehension of issues beyond mere talking points. Analysis requires thinking for yourself – not the repetition of school yard name-games and bullet points from conservative interest groups. When you speak such as you have, you debase your own dignity and that of your candidate and your cause. No one takes a fool seriously.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at October 21, 2008 1:14
Barack Hussein Obama- The Wizard of Uhhz. Don’t look behind that curtain!!