Abortion the reason for Typhoon Haiyan?
Kenneth Copeland says that storms and hurricanes and murders don’t just happen. [David] Barton agrees and adds that since we (meaning the U.S. I suppose) have embraced a wicked policy (legalized abortion), then God will take away his hand of protection. Because of God’s absence, then Barton claims:
Whap! Here comes storms like we’ve never seen before, here comes floods like, and here comes climate stuff that we can’t explain, all the hot times and all the cold times. Too much rain and not enough rain; we’re flooding over here, and we got droughts over here.
And you know back in the early America days, when something like that happened, first thing they did was issue a call for a national day of prayer, repentance, humiliation, fasting and prayer. We have screwed up somewhere. We gotta get God’s help to get blessings back on this nation. And today we’re saying ‘oh no, it’s global warming.” No, we opened a door that lost God’s protection over our environment and that’s our choice.
Even if there was some theological merit to this line of thinking, the facts don’t support the link made by Barton and Copeland, as far I can tell….
Katrina is the only hurricane after Roe v. Wade in the top ten….
The murder rate now is lower than it was in 1961….
[P]rior to the current Colorado floods, the worst flood in history is the 1927 Mississippi River flood, followed by the 1937 Ohio River flood….
While climate change may indeed bring about long term weather changes, including increased flooding, it does not appear that one can accurately associate meaningful weather disasters with the Roe v. Wade decision.
~ Warren Throckmorton, responding to theometeorological theories put forth by televangelist Kenneth Copeland and historian David Barton, Patheos, November 5
Jill Stanek is a nurse turned speaker, columnist and blogger, a national figure in the effort to protect both preborn and postborn innocent human life.
Now we have a new reason for all of the world’s woes – finally George W. Bush can be put to rest. LL
Well idk about anyone else but i have noticed that natural disasters are becoming more and more frequent. The damage unreal. God is angry with the wicked. Isnt there something in the bible that warns about this?
I realize this particular article is being sarcastic, but people who actually do believe and say that sort of thing make my blood boil.
Kelsey, fyi I just changed the quote to better launch a serious discussion.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/11/whca-protests-white-house-photo-ban-178077.html?hp=r7“
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“As surely as if they were placing a hand over a journalist’s camera lens, officials in this administration are blocking the public from having an independent view of important functions of the Executive Branch of government,” the White House Correspondents Association board wrote in the letter delivered to the White House press office.”
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“All of the following events, with the exception of the McCain-Graham meeting, were reported as “read-outs” by the White House with “official” White House photo(s) attached. They illustrate the troubling breadth of the restrictions placed upon newsgathering by the White House to record governmental activity of undisputed and wide public interest:
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• On July 10, 2013, the President met with members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.
• On July 11, 2013, the President met with the Co-Chairs of the U.S. – China Strategic and Economic Dialogue.
• On July 29, 2013, the President met with former Secretary of State Clinton (White House photo also distributed via Twitter).
• On July 30, 2013, the President and Vice President met with Israeli and Palestinian negotiators.
• On August 26, 2013, the President met with African-American Faith Leaders.
• On September 2, 2013, the President met with Senators McCain and Graham.
• On October. 11, 2013, the President and family members met with Pakistani human rights activist Malala Yousafzai, a person of great public interest.
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While certain of these events may appear “private” in nature, the decision of the White House to release its own contemporaneous photograph(s) suggests that the White House believes these events are, in fact, newsworthy and not private.”
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“To exclude the press from these functions is a major break from how previous administrations have worked with the press.”
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[The boRAT administration, you remember, ‘the most transparent administration’ in history’.]
To Heather:
The earth did open and swallow 3000 people after Akin’s stole some booty, the earth shook to open the jail cells for Peter in response to the will of God and the waters parted at His will for numerous people: during the exodus, for the Arc’s transport…
But the wild weather today is so diverse and devastating it is difficult to attribute it to anything beyond the last days, Jesus spoke of; the birth pangs of the Revelation.
Leviticus tells us that the earth will vomit out the inhabitants because of evil behavior. In Matthew we read the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike.
Would we blame God? Should we blame those to whom we attribute evil deeds? Do we blame the earth itself?
I think too much sometimes, not enough at other times, but most definitely I couldn’t imagine how anyone would presume to know the reason behind the tragic circumstances in the Philippines. Leaders, especially religious leaders, often feel they are expected to have answers at the ready and proclaim those answers. We may eventually find out what the truth really is.
For now, our best response is to offer compassion and help in any way we can.
Ty Darlene…I dont really read the bible but i do remember some parts of scripture such as incurable diseases…AIDS comes to mind. I really was just wondering myself. Yet everyone says its global warming.
Interesting fact, Mississippi passed Ameica’s first abortion law for rape only in 1966 & Colorado the first ever for rape, incest & life of mother in 1967.
I think that natural disasters bring the best in people more often than not. Is there a reliable connection we can make between a disaster and more compassionate law-making efforts?
Is it God though? We have been left to govern ourselves and will ultimately answer how well we have on the judgment day. Was I for life or was I for planet depopulation through man-made efforts such as abortion? I think that question does not need a natural disaster to be answered.
Is it a coincidence that even the most ardent agnostics turn to God/Higher Power in their last hours?
It might be that our choices that made us lose God’s protection. But I think that rather than punishment, it is a warning that we should prepare. Because I believe God loves us and will do everything He can to make us change for the better.
The strongest typhoons that caused massive floods and destruction to properties came in the last few years when the RH bill was being written and proposed. And we all know that access to artificial birth control is pathway to abortion, which is still illegal in the Philippines due to 90% of the population being Catholic/Christian denomination.
Global warming is an excuse for non-believers and RH bill proponents so they can get their way with the Filipinos who are mostly people of faith. Just my bit–you don’t all have to agree with me.
When people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were being ridiculed for saying an increase in natural disasters was punishment from God, I often wondered, “Well, why have we been saying ‘God bless America!’ for this past century?”
Doesn’t that indicate that bad times are the norm, and that we’re aspiring to some divine protection from them?
Isn’t the Phillipines one of the more ardent catholic countries? And why did the tsunami which hit roughly the same region several years back hit there rather than somewhere like New York?
David Barton is a faux historian.
I just find it odd that saying that our natural disasters are getting worse implies that God didn’t care to remove his care from this country when we did things like kill 95% of native peoples and torment the rest, or enslave an entire race, or all the other awful things in our history.
But at least they aren’t solely blaming LGBT people this time, lol.
What I wanna know is what in tarnation did Jupiter do to warrant a 10,000 year storm?! Those pesky Jupiterreans!!
(Do I get bonus points for using “tarnation” in a sentence?)
Yes you do 9ek.
But then some people will want to take them back for your use of a 10,000 year timeline :-)
You can tell I larned all mah cussin’ from Yosemite Sam, the varmint!
“All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.” 2 Cor 5:18-19
That about sums it up for me.
9ek says:
November 22, 2013 at 7:17 pm
What I wanna know is what in tarnation did Jupiter do to warrant a 10,000 year storm?! Those pesky Jupiterreans!! (Do I get bonus points for using “tarnation” in a sentence?)
The proper use of the colloquialism is “what in the tarnation is…” If the phrase is broken out properly, it is saying, “What in the entire nation is…” I suppose the image is that one must travel far and wide to encounter such a phenomenon as this.
As to the biblical portents of the floods and storms: Weather happens. God does not send massive storms to warn us that we are on the wrong track. He sends signs and miracles and His Mother, but no more storms or floods.
Quite frankly, the sign that God has abandoned us since Roe v. Wade is the unmarked graves of 54 million Americans, murdered and disappeared. If we can’t see that, then we won’t see God in a tornado or a typhoon.
Quote: ]Hans: When people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were being ridiculed for saying an increase in natural disasters was punishment from God, I often wondered, “Well, why have we been saying ‘God bless America!’ for this past century?” Doesn’t that indicate that bad times are the norm, and that we’re aspiring to some divine protection from them?”<— end quote
Hans, things can always be seen as mighty good or mighty bad, depending on one's mindset. The ancient Egyptians thought the world was going to heck in a handbasket, and Socrates, Plato, etc., had their episodes, too.
Global warming – to generalize – I'd say more energy means more stuff going on.
If only people would quit going slow in the fast lane…..
Doug,
Anything humans do to “warm” the planet can’t hold a candle to the forces of mother nature.
The planet has gone through cycles of cooling and warming since its beginning, whenever that was. Mankind had nothing to do with it.
The history channel has an account of a brief period of global warming around the 13th century. The planet and people thrived.
Manmade global warming is a scam.
Cultures around the world have forever blamed natural disasters, and they certainly are nothing new, on some sort of divine interventions.
The gods were angry, mother earth was angry, some god or goddess was sending a message by the formation of the rainbow, a volcanic eruption, an earthquake. Now there is “global warming” to blame and people fear that like our ancestors feared the wrath of Zeus.
Sorry, I don’t buy it. Natural disasters, which are better and more accurately reported now than they were in centuries past, have long been part of life on this planet and always will be. We can attribute any message we want to them by who or whatever we want.
Isn’t the Phillipines one of the more ardent catholic countries?
Maybe God was throwing the typhoon at the US, but missed. However, there are no doubt many here who believe that the Philippines were the actual target, and that God was punishing them for ignoring that Catholic church’s teachings on birth control. And, of course, plenty of people in the pro-life movement believe that just being a Catholic nation is a good enough reason for God to smite them.
“Natural disasters, which are better and more accurately reported now than they were in centuries past, have long been part of life on this planet and always will be. We can attribute any message we want to them by who or whatever we want.”
Hey Mary,
Good post.
Anything humans do to “warm” the planet can’t hold a candle to the forces of mother nature. The planet has gone through cycles of cooling and warming since its beginning, whenever that was. Mankind had nothing to do with it. The history channel has an account of a brief period of global warming around the 13th century. The planet and people thrived.
Mary, lost the reply to this I made – still don’t have the hang of this board yet for quoting, etc. Sigh….
I don’t disagree with anything you said there, but none of that means we can’t be warming things up.
Yes, nature can overpower us, but the normal case is that the amount of carbon dioxide and other “greenhouse gases” are in balance as far as natural production and absorption.
Sure, temperatures have gone up and down some in the past, but in no way does that mean we can’t be making things get hotter now.
Okay, it got warmer 700 or 800 years ago, and it wasn’t “the end of the world.” I’m not saying this is the end – many plants, which use carbon dioxide and the sun’s energy for photosynthesis – are growing better and faster now. There’s one good effect.
If you’re a polar bear getting screwed over by the lack of ice, or the resident of a low-lying island in the ocean, then it may be quite a bad effect.
Last I saw, humans make about 20% or 25% as much carbon dioxide, etc., as does the earth itself. Without the human activity, however, the earth’s production and absorption are normally in balance, and the operative deal now is that our production is piling up in the atmosphere, and it’s resulted in changes to the climate.
I don’t know where it will all end. Don’t think that it’s that huge of a deal for most of us, at least not yet. In the long run, water shortages, changing rainfall patterns, and effects on producing agricultural areas may be a very big deal for us all.
Hi Doug,
Good to see you here. Thank you for the thumbs up on my post. I appreciate it.
As for global warming no one pollutes like mother nature. Long before the human race existed and up until now there has been oil leaking through the ocean floor, volcanoes perpetually belching toxic gases into the stratosphere, (volcanic eruptions have in fact effected climate, giving the planet a “mini ice age” centuries ago, right after the bout of global warming), and lightening strikes that cause forest fires, releasing excess CO2 into the atmosphere, to natural disasters and the havoc they wreak, humans are but an annoying gnat on the planet’s nose. The planet survives in spite of us, not because of us. We are at its mercy. It will survive long after we are gone, and will be giving us the finger.
In the meantime I hope we get some global warming by the end of November so my son can get safely home from out west for Christmas. Thankfully he isn’t travelling this Thanksgiving with all the snowstorm warnings.
Have a great holiday Doug.
Mary, I’ve worked with oil – the napthenic and paraffinic types used in electrical transformers – for 29 years. Once in a while, a spill will occur, might be little, or – heh – might be pretty good size. We sometimes say, partially jokingly, “Well, that oil came out of the ground…” : P
Nature’s effects and influence are undiminished – no doubt about it. But that does not mean that we are but a “gnat” as far as our effects on the planet. We’d be a lot better off if we were.
Hi Doug,
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. :)
Mary, perhaps – there is never any necessary getting away from that, since it can be decided on a unilateral basis. I will say that as far as the primary reason for the world getting so much warmer in the past decades being human activity, there really isn’t significant disagreement anymore, not from scientific organizations with international standing, or heck – not even from those with national standing.
This is not saying, “The End is Near,” but global warming is easy to understand. The earth’s production and absorption of greenhouse gases is very much in balance, normally, and has been for the last few hundred years. For quite a few decades now, humans have been producing those same greenhouse gases, and that is responsible for the build-up in the atmosphere, and hence, the global warming.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/feb/04/man-made-greenhouse-gases
I would say Doug that Mary has check-mated you there on the human-produced greenhouse gas effect on climate change. The most significant, water vapor, is very indirectly correlated with human activity. How about the sunlight effect? Humans are but an insignificant contributor to climate change..
Thomas R: I would say Doug that Mary has check-mated you there on the human-produced greenhouse gas effect on climate change. The most significant, water vapor, is very indirectly correlated with human activity.
So what, Thomas? That would be like you saying that humans spiked Joe’s drink with a fatal dose of lead “and only a very tiny bit of cyanide” and didn’t poison poor old Joe. ; )
Yes, the water vapor content is not something we alter much at all, directly (water vapor leaves the atmosphere by falling as rain, etc., and this tends to regulate its concentration rapidly), but in no way does that mean we’re not warming things up. And – the comparatively small increase in water vapor that has occurred is because we’re heating the world up in the first place. On the page that you linked to, at the end of the first paragraph below the smoky picture, it says, “The one that causes the most warming overall is water vapour – though human activity affects its level in the atmosphere indirectly rather than directly.”
The last part of that is another link itself, and it takes you to a good and fairly simply explanation, which ends with, “This explains why, despite water vapour constituting the largest part of the greenhouse effect, the world’s science academies have agreed, there is strong evidence that human activities are driving the observed change in temperatures.”
If, somehow, we had meaningfully increased the water vapor content of the air, along with the increase we’re responsible for in other greenhouse gases, then the warming effect would be even more pronounced. We have not done that, and are left with the increase that’s due to us boosting the other greenhouse gases – the rise in world temperature that we observe.
How about the sunlight effect?
The sun’s energy that reaches the earth, like the sun’s output itself, has remained very constant for thousands of years, varying only a fraction of one percent.
Humans are but an insignificant contributor to climate change..
You’ve certainly not brought anything to the table to support that, just a link that disproves what you say, in the end.
Again, without human activity, greenhouse gas concentration and other things that affect world temperature have been very much in balance the past couple hundred years. It is that we’ve increased the amount of carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, etc. (those are right from the link you posted), and thus the amount of the sun’s energy that is trapped near the earth, versus being radiated back into space, that has accounted for the global warming we are witnessing.
I will take my chances Doug and tough it out. In the meantime O detractors and some others can tweet their hearts content about climate change. Methinks that there are more pressing issues that will do us in much much faster than using hairspray (aerosol) to keep our hair straight. :)